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View Full Version : MERGED: Torre gone from Yanks if they don't make LCS / Rivera wants Torre back



Carolina Red
10-07-2007, 04:57 PM
they don't make it to the ALCS, according to Steinbrenner's comments. Do you think the Reds will have a chance at landing him if this happens? If they could land him would ownership be willing to pay several million a year to a manager? He has family ties to Cincinnati and in my opinion he would be the best manager the Reds have had since Lou.

AmarilloRed
10-07-2007, 05:13 PM
I would imagine he would cost a lot of money, about $10 million a year or so. I am not sure Reds ownership would pay that much for a manager

jnwohio
10-07-2007, 05:16 PM
they don't make it to the ALCS, according to Steinbrenner's comments. Do you think the Reds will have a chance at landing him if this happens? If they could land him would ownership be willing to pay several million a year to a manager? He has family ties to Cincinnati and in my opinion he would be the best manager the Reds have had since Lou.

I would have the same quistions about Torre that I have about LaRussa. Why does he want the job? Does he have the fire and energy left to put into it.

I think I would prefer a hungry 1st timer (such as Terry Pendelton for example) to am older guy running on or very near to empty.

The comments of some of the people close to the Pirates situation about how JIm Tracy seemed stuck in the Dodgers org in much of his thinking and conversation comes to mind as another big risk to gettig a guy like Torre at this point. The Reds are the Reds and not the Yankees and he would need to accept that go go from there.

stevekun
10-07-2007, 05:48 PM
Now there is a manager I would want...but too expensive

GoReds33
10-07-2007, 06:10 PM
Yeah, he is probably going to be way too expensive. I would like to see him here, mostly because he is a very professional individual. I like how he handles himself, and his team. I think that the Yankees mess is Cashman's fault. I don't know what kind of market there will be for him if he is let go. I really hope that we can get him or LaRussa.

redsfanmia
10-07-2007, 06:55 PM
No thanks, he is a good manager with good talent and a below average manager with bad talent.

Degenerate39
10-07-2007, 08:37 PM
I think if I was Torre I'd stick it to Steinbriner and just get the worst match ups possible just so the Yankees would lose.

NorrisHopper30
10-07-2007, 08:38 PM
Torre is overrated.

HalMorrisRules
10-07-2007, 09:18 PM
in my opinion he would be the best manager the Reds have had since Lou.

Davey Johnson says hello! :wave:

I(heart)Freel
10-07-2007, 09:56 PM
I firmly believe that Torre would not require the same salary as he got in New York ($7 mill this season). I'm not saying he'd come for nothing, but I do think if he wanted to manage in a smaller market, he would take less, knowing baseball economics.

I also think you have to take into account the effect hiring Joe Torre would have on the free agent market. Suddenly those big names return your call? Not saying we can afford them - or even one, really - but it would definitely help.

Like landing, say, Mariano Rivera?

ThirdBaseCoach
10-08-2007, 09:33 AM
I firmly believe that Torre would not require the same salary as he got in New York ($7 mill this season). ..........I do think if he wanted to manage in a smaller market, he would take less, knowing baseball economics.

I agree with another poster who said he is a below average manager with less than stellar talent. Joe's forte is knowing how not to screw it up. Without top talent and with younger players, Joe would not be the star he is with the horses he has had for years in NY.

You have lost any sense of reality if you think Joe will take less than his current $7M just to continue to manage anywhere - unless, of course, you believe in the the pseudo-science of baseball economics, which is the epitome of oxymorons.

Remember, pro sports is no different from other forms of high priced entertainment.

ThirdBaseCoach
10-08-2007, 09:37 AM
I think I would prefer a hungry 1st timer (such as Terry Pendelton for example) to am older guy running on or very near to empty.

IIRC Terry has never managed an inning anywhere. He may be a top-rated hitting coach, but I am not aware of his hunger for anything, are you? Putting his name on any team's list of manager's is just foolish. If he is hungry, he should manage in the minors and South America before jumping into the deep end of the pool.

So-called first timers should not start in the bigs.

jnwohio
10-08-2007, 10:41 AM
IIRC Terry has never managed an inning anywhere. He may be a top-rated hitting coach, but I am not aware of his hunger for anything, are you? Putting his name on any team's list of manager's is just foolish. If he is hungry, he should manage in the minors and South America before jumping into the deep end of the pool.

So-called first timers should not start in the bigs.


The StLouis paper has him at the top of their list of possible LaRussa replacements. Believe he was also on a Pirates listing I saw. I have also heard his name other places as a comer in the managerial arena.

I don't know that much about him personally. My point was the Reds would be better off with a motivated first timer than with a tired vet just playing out the string.

Even George Anderson had to start somehere.

BEETTLEBUG
10-09-2007, 01:17 AM
What Is Count Down On When Torre Will Be Canned?

George Foster
10-09-2007, 02:00 AM
What Is Count Down On When Torre Will Be Canned?

I think the count down ended at Bronx tonight. I bet you he either retires or goes to......St. Louis;)

Really...how many teams can afford him that will have a vacancy?

My bet he goes to TV.

With a new GM in St. Louis, LaRussa is gone. Will the Reds pay him? Is he that good anyway? They were barely above .500 last year with good pitching. True they got hot and won it all, but this year without pitching he was below .500

Can anybody manage the Reds above .500 with this pitching staff?

Minus the last 10 games of the season, when the Reds played their AAA players, Mackanin did pretty good.

757690
10-09-2007, 04:30 AM
I personally like Torre more than LaRussa, but Torre has yet to take an underachieving team, or a rebuliding team and win.
He was miserable as the Mets manager, and barely mediocre as the Braves and Cards manager. His only success as a manager has been with the huge payroll Yankees.
However, LaRussa has a knack for taking bad teams and making them better. He did it with the White Sox, the A's, and the Cards. In fact, he took over from Torre in St.Louis and turned them into a winning franchise.
Again, I like Torre better than LaRussa, but LaRussa is a much better fit for the Reds.
The only advantage to signing Torre is that both Riveria and Posada are free agents and might follow him to Cincy if he was manager. But then again, The Reds could not afford either one, let alone both.

ThirdBaseCoach
10-09-2007, 07:38 AM
It looks Like Joe will be gone very soon. Some writers in NY think LaRussa would want the job, and that George wants him.

IIRC Joe is at least 67 and has spent 12 years in the toughest market in the bigs. My money is on him taking at least one year off to enjoy himself, like Lou did. Weigh his options and then see what else is out there.

sig
10-09-2007, 12:30 PM
Why don't the Cardinals and Yankeees just make a trade. LaRussa for Torre.

I'd like to see Torre get the Reds job.

Where does Donnie baseball fit into all of this. I thought he was being groomed for the Yankee job. I don't know if Mattingly is ready for a manager job but he grew up in Evansville, Indiana as a Cards fan. He might follow Torre to STL or Cincy to continue in that role. I believe he still has a home in Eville.

ThirdBaseCoach
10-09-2007, 01:16 PM
.........Where does Donnie baseball fit into all of this. I thought he was being groomed for the Yankee job. I don't know if Mattingly is ready for a manager job but he grew up in Evansville, Indiana as a Cards fan. He might follow Torre to STL or Cincy to continue in that role. I believe he still has a home in Eville.

The NY writers say George would not consider giving the job to Donnie Baseball because of his lack of managerial experience.

Joe, Donnie, or any other candidate can live wherever he wants, so any connection to the Cincy area is irrelevant. Joe will take at least one year off to decompress and weigh his options.

I(heart)Freel
10-09-2007, 02:33 PM
I think any managerial debate has to shake down to the core: what does a manager really do?

Answer that question and then line up the candidates.

I put two skills above the rest:

• the ability to manage a ballgame
• the ability to manage the roster

The first means when to and when NOT to go to the bullpen. When to give a steal sign. When to sac. When to double switch.

The second means knowing the club enough to play the hot hand, how to get playing time for all 25 guys to stay sharp, how to handle egos.

With this in mind, I definitely lean toward both Torre and LaRussa over Mack. But Mack over everyone else in the mix.

Everyone is talking about how Torre did nothing in his stops prior to the Yanks. But the man has shown the ability - especially in the big games - to manage a ballgame. When to press the right button. That's huge. Mack did a good job of this in his limited time too. LaRussa drives me crazy because he knows he's good at this part, so he often outthinks himself. Batting a pitcher 8th should just never be done.

Mack also showed propensity at managing a roster. Dude did an exemplary job of keeping guys fresh, getting everyone on his roster playing time here and there. (Too bad that meant keeping Ellison fresh. Ugh. I woulda prefered he stayed stale.) Torre and LaRussa are also good at this part.

But the biggie... the one skillset that Mack doesn't have that Torre certainly does and seemingly LaRussa does... is the ability to manage egos. And only for one reason: Torre and LaRussa have hardware on his fingers. That's the right bower in a baseball clubhouse: it trumps everything else.

Torre could tell Junior he'll get pulled some nights in late innings, and Junior would almost certainly not run to the media. He could sit Philipps for not running out a grounder and not get second-guessed. He could do just about anything in the clubhouse and as long as he did it as he did in NY - professionally, with class - I would guarantee there would not be calls for mutiny.

I keep remembering LaRussa spatting with (I think) Spezio last year, so I don't give him nearly the respect score I give Torre.

So yea, I absolutely rank the guys we know in order: Torre, LaRussa then Mack.

Degenerate39
10-11-2007, 05:19 PM
Rivera wants Torre back, will factor manager into decision whether to return to Yankees

By MIKE FITZPATRICK, AP Baseball Writer
October 10, 2007

NEW YORK (AP) -- If the Yankees plan to keep calling on Mariano Rivera in the ninth inning, they might want to think carefully about who would be handing him the ball.

Rivera isn't happy that Joe Torre could be out as manager in New York and said the team's decision will be factored into whether he returns.

"I don't feel good about it," Rivera said Wednesday, two days after the Yankees' third straight exit in the first round of the playoffs. "I don't see why they're even thinking (about letting Torre go). I wish he's back, definitely. If you ask me what I would want, I want him back."

Rivera's contract also is expiring and he is eligible to become a free agent. He said whether Torre returns will help determine whether he remains with the Yankees, the only major league club he's pitched for.

"It might do a lot of it," he said. "I mean, I've been with Joe for so many years, and the kind of person he has been for me and for my teammates, it's been great. The thing is that I don't see why they have to put him in this position."

Rivera, who turns 38 next month, plans to speak with Torre soon.

"I'm an optimist, so hopefully nothing happens and he stays here," Rivera said.

The pitcher, regarded by many as baseball's greatest closer, wanted to negotiate an extension during spring training, but the Yankees decided to delay talks until after the season. He made $10.5 million this year.

"I'm going to be open to hear all offers," said Rivera, who wants a multiyear contract. "The Yankees had the opportunity and didn't do nothing with it."

A baseball official with knowledge of the team's intentions said the Yankees plan to make contract offers to Rivera, catcher Jorge Posada and slugger Alex Rodriguez before they are allowed to negotiate with other clubs.

The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the Yankees haven't commented publicly on their plans.

Like Rivera, Posada is eligible to become a free agent. Rodriguez can opt out of his record $252 million, 10-year contract to seek another deal. Starting pitcher Andy Pettitte has a player option for $16 million, and New York has a $16 million option on right fielder Bobby Abreu.

Rivera was asked if the Yankees would be his first choice regardless of Torre's status.

"Right now, I can't tell you that," he said. "During spring training a lot of things happened, and I realized then, definitely, this is a business."

Still, it's tough to imagine Rivera in a different uniform.

Headed to the Hall of Fame, the right-hander ranks third on the career list with 443 saves. He got off to a slow start this season but finished 3-4 with a 3.15 ERA and 30 saves. He also holds the postseason record with 34 saves.

Rivera isn't sure how much longer he wants to pitch, but he's certainly not thinking about retirement yet. He joked that he'll stick around until he can't throw anymore.

"I will tell you this, that I won't stay, I won't play baseball if I won't be able to compete at the level that In know how compete," he said.

If Rivera were to leave, the Yankees might already have his successor in pinstripes: Joba Chamberlain.

Problem is, the rookie sensation with the 99 mph fastball and nasty slider is projected as a starting pitcher, even though he went 2-0 with a 0.38 ERA and 34 strikeouts in 19 relief appearances after he was called up in early August.

Chamberlain was a starter in the minors and college, and New York could definitely use help in its rotation.

"It's kind of hard for me to look back right now and see myself as a starter just because I haven't done it in so long," Chamberlain said. "There's not one that's better than the other and there's not one that's more important than the other. So it's just going to come down to what's better for the team and what's better for me."

Chamberlain said the only big difference between starting and relieving is that he would throw more changeups as a starter.

He'd like to know what his role will be next year as early as possible.

"Just for the mind-set," he said. "Physically, I'm not going to prepare any different."

Rivera said he loved having young teammates like Chamberlain around this season, and the rookie said he learned a lot out in that bullpen.

"I tried to do as much as I could to pick his brain, not about baseball as much as how to handle things," Chamberlain said. "He's been a staple for a long time. He left a lot of big footsteps to fill, not only as a baseball player so much, but also mostly as a friend."

If the Reds could some how pick up Torre could Rivera possibly be the closer for the next two years?

RedsFanWC
10-11-2007, 05:31 PM
I doubt Torre would want to come to Cincinnati, but a scenario of the Reds hiring Girardi and including Paul O'Neill on the coaching staff may be interesting to Rivera if Torre retires or sits out a year. I think the Reds would have to throw a pretty big contract his way but with the lack of quality starting pitching out there in FA overpaying for a quality closer which would allow Weathers to work in the 7th, Burton in the 8th and Rivera in the 9th would give the Reds bullpen a much better look.

redsfanmia
10-11-2007, 05:45 PM
I doubt Torre would want to come to Cincinnati, but a scenario of the Reds hiring Girardi and including Paul O'Neill on the coaching staff may be interesting to Rivera if Torre retires or sits out a year. I think the Reds would have to throw a pretty big contract his way but with the lack of quality starting pitching out there in FA overpaying for a quality closer which would allow Weathers to work in the 7th, Burton in the 8th and Rivera in the 9th would give the Reds bullpen a much better look.

Not going to happen.

WMR
10-11-2007, 06:56 PM
Girardi is a horrible manager who alienates his players. Don't want him anywhere near the Reds.

GoReds33
10-11-2007, 07:43 PM
Girardi is a horrible manager who alienates his players. Don't want him anywhere near the Reds.His year was pretty overrated with the Marlins. Still I would like to have a veteran manager, that has some respect in the clubhouse. I think that he deserves a shot. I just don't think it will be with the Reds.:)

WMR
10-11-2007, 07:50 PM
ramp101 is a great poster on here and is a marlins fan... he described Girardi as worse than Narron.

Mutaman
10-11-2007, 07:58 PM
Mariano's not going anywhere. The Yankees will offer him a lot of money and he will take it, and Joe Torre will not factor into the equation.

Mutaman
10-11-2007, 08:00 PM
ramp101 is a great poster on here and is a marlins fan... he described Girardi as worse than Narron.


He also predicted back in April that the Marlins would have a successful season. Oh well, nobody's perfect.

TDHND
10-12-2007, 01:32 AM
Girardi is a horrible manager who alienates his players. Don't want him anywhere near the Reds.

Who do you want?

ChatterRed
10-12-2007, 08:59 AM
Let's sign Torre and then woo Rivera. It will never happen, but dreaming about it is fun.

Redus
10-12-2007, 10:54 AM
Im thinking Riveras on the downside of his career. Paying him alot of cash makes no sense for us

WMR
10-12-2007, 11:32 AM
Who do you want?

Davy Johnson.

Pay him whatever it takes, Bob, and get it done.

GoReds33
10-12-2007, 02:23 PM
Let's sign Torre and then woo Rivera. It will never happen, but dreaming about it is fun.Getting Rivera would be a waste. It would help the bullpen, but he would cost more than he is worth. I think we need to fix the seventh and eigth innings before we get a 1 year solution at closer.:)

redsfan1966
10-12-2007, 07:27 PM
C'mon...all this talk about Torre in Cincy gear is laughable....Torre is either going to skipper the "Greatest show in MLB" (heh) or retire...why would he take a step down to a mediocre franchise (one I love, but lets be honest) after being in the penthouse for so many years??

bengalsown
10-13-2007, 12:33 AM
because his grandmas' cousins' husbands' uncle used to live in cinci.

Marge'sMullet
10-13-2007, 12:50 AM
no, his wife is from cincy

AmarilloRed
10-13-2007, 02:16 AM
He likes managing the Yankees. Don't be surprised if he retires if he is let go by the Yankees.

Jones1
10-13-2007, 05:13 PM
No thanks to Torre he is the most overrated manager in the history of baseball! If you cant win with the teams he's had, how will he win here. NO WAY!

Screwball
10-13-2007, 05:28 PM
No thanks to Torre he is the most overrated manager in the history of baseball! If you cant win with the teams he's had, how will he win here. NO WAY!

Well, in all fairness, he did win 4 rings with the Yanks in the 90s, and made it to a couple WS after that. And recently, they haven't exactly had the pitching necessary to be that dominant team in the postseason.

I seriously doubt Torre would have any interest in managing the Reds, but if he were to come here I'd probably throw out my back from all the cartwheels I'd be doing.

Jay Bruce
10-13-2007, 06:39 PM
Well, in all fairness, he did win 4 rings with the Yanks in the 90s, and made it to a couple WS after that. And recently, they haven't exactly had the pitching necessary to be that dominant team in the postseason.

I seriously doubt Torre would have any interest in managing the Reds, but if he were to come here I'd probably throw out my back from all the cartwheels I'd be doing.

I can't disagree with you here. I still hold whatever faint hope there is that Torre would manage the Reds, at least to save us from Baker, Brenley or Girardi; 3 guys I want nothing to do with as manager.

Chi-Town Red
10-13-2007, 07:39 PM
he is not even on the Reds radar...