PDA

View Full Version : It's "Griffey Trade Rumor" Time Again - Braves



paulrichjr
10-07-2007, 11:06 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster


Heard a very interesting idea this week: The Reds could approach the Braves about a deal involving Ken Griffey Jr. -- Cincinnati could effectively hand Griffey to Atlanta, for a Grade B-plus prospect or two, while absorbing some of his salary. Junior could play right field for the Braves, with Jeff Francoeur moving to center fielder. This is something which Griffey might theoretically support, because he'd be only a short flight from his Orlando home, and it would help the Reds resolve their outfield glut.

RedLegSuperStar
10-07-2007, 11:14 PM
Griffey, Gonzalez, and cash to Atlanta

Escobar and Acosta to Reds

Spitball
10-07-2007, 11:22 PM
Turner Field once was very unfriendly to left handed power hitters. Unless they have changed the dimensions, Griffey might likely veto in favor of staying in friendlier GABP until he reaches 600.

paintmered
10-07-2007, 11:24 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster


Heard a very interesting idea this week: The Reds could approach the Braves about a deal involving Ken Griffey Jr. -- Cincinnati could effectively hand Griffey to Atlanta, for a Grade B-plus prospect or two, while absorbing some of his salary. Junior could play right field for the Braves, with Jeff Francoeur moving to center fielder. This is something which Griffey might theoretically support, because he'd be only a short flight from his Orlando home, and it would help the Reds resolve their outfield glut.

That sounds like a great plan to me. Griffey's time has come. Now, I'm as big of a fan as anyone when it comes to Ken Griffey Jr and he had a commendable 2007 campaign. But it's time to face the facts that Griffey is no longer a serviceable starting outfielder. This is especially true when Jay Bruce is waiting in the wings. Griffey has some value now. It may never be higher than this offseason.

I'm more than willing to go into 2008 with an outfield of:

LF: Dunn (pick up his option)
CF: Hamilton
RF: Bruce
OF #4: Hopper
OF #5: Freel

KronoRed
10-07-2007, 11:43 PM
Turner Field once was very unfriendly to left handed power hitters. Unless they have changed the dimensions, Griffey might likely veto in favor of staying in friendlier GABP until he reaches 600.

I don't think JR is that worried about the numbers, he wants a ring IMO

corkedbat
10-07-2007, 11:48 PM
That sounds like a great plan to me. Griffey's time has come. Now, I'm as big of a fan as anyone when it comes to Ken Griffey Jr and he had a commendable 2007 campaign. But it's time to face the facts that Griffey is no longer a serviceable starting outfielder. This is especially true when Jay Bruce is waiting in the wings. Griffey has some value now. It may never be higher than this offseason.

I'm more than willing to go into 2008 with an outfield of:

LF: Dunn (pick up his option)
CF: Hamilton
RF: Bruce
OF #4: Hopper
OF #5: Freel

If they can land a piece or two that can help the big club near-term, I'd be saddened. but could accept dealing Junior. I'd prefer just one on the roster between Freel and Hopper and find a RH OF with a little more power for the bench and to spell a starter against really tough lefties.

I doubt Freel has a lot of value, but someone might offer a middle-reliever, reserve or a younger farm hand. Maybe Jimbo.

Caveat Emperor
10-08-2007, 12:18 AM
Heard a very interesting idea this week: The Reds could approach the Braves about a deal involving Ken Griffey Jr.

TRANSLATION: I was thinking aloud to myself on the john this morning and decided to post my thoughts on a national website, knowing that it would start the internet and talk-radio circuit buzzing.

fearofpopvol1
10-08-2007, 12:43 AM
Griffey, Gonzalez, and cash to Atlanta

Escobar and Acosta to Reds

The Braves would never go for that.

Anyway, I think it could make sense for the Braves, even though I'm not sure KGJ is a Braves type of player. Now that they lost Andruw Jones, they're probably looking for someone to replace his offensive production. Griffey would be a less expensive (albeit older) option that hits with a higher batting average and similar (if not better) power. Not to mention, you'd have to think he's worth tickets at Turner Field as well.

As for the return, if we can get a couple (as the article said B plus prospects), count me in. I'd like to see the Reds receive at least 1 pitching prospect in the deal, even if they are a reliever.

RedlegJake
10-08-2007, 05:53 AM
It IS time to move Griffey. Take a couple low level prospects. I doubt its the Braves though. They are using the Jones money they save to sign Texeira and aren't looking to go higher on salary. Appears their corporate ownership is a bit tighter than Mr. Turner was.

redsmetz
10-08-2007, 07:58 AM
I'd expect to not kick in any cash if we'd only get two Grade B+ prospects (and I'd worry a little taking pitching from Atlanta, we rarely come out well on those transactions with them).

GAC
10-08-2007, 08:05 AM
I don't think JR is that worried about the numbers, he wants a ring IMO

And closer to home in Florida.

Krusty
10-08-2007, 08:19 AM
The Braves can't afford to re-sign Andrew Jones but they can trade for Griffey? Just usually newspaper speculation but I think they will commit their dollars to signing Texiera to a contract extension.

GAC
10-08-2007, 08:24 AM
It IS time to move Griffey. Take a couple low level prospects.

I don't know all the particulars on this rumor; but how does it help the Reds to pay part of his salary just to ship him to Atlanta for low level prospects?

Just to be rid of (dump) the guy?

Now if this FO is that confident that Bruce is ready for RF, then this may be a possibility.

Not overlooking his past injury history at all; but over the last 3 years the guy has produced for us.... .871 OPS, .579 SLG%, .352 OB%, while averaging 127 games/season in that span.

And he is going to be chasing #600 next year. To an owner, he puts butts in the seats, and there is that marketing aspect.

Now some can justly contend that putting a winning team on that field will also put butts in the seats. Rightly so.

But I don't see how simply dumping Jr accomplishes that? He's not the reason we've seen a poor product on that field.


The Braves can't afford to re-sign Andrew Jones but they can trade for Griffey? Just usually newspaper speculation but I think they will commit their dollars to signing Texiera to a contract extension.

I agree Krusty.

bucksfan2
10-08-2007, 08:29 AM
The Braves can't afford to re-sign Andrew Jones but they can trade for Griffey? Just usually newspaper speculation but I think they will commit their dollars to signing Texiera to a contract extension.

I dont know if they can't afford to resign Jones. It maybe more like his skills have deteriorated and he isnt worth the money Boras wants.

redsmetz
10-08-2007, 08:32 AM
I don't know all the particulars on this rumor; but how does it help the Reds to pay part of his salary just to ship him to Atlanta for low level prospects?

Just to be rid of (dump) the guy?

Now if this FO is that confident that Bruce is ready for RF, then this may be a possibility.

Not overlooking his past injury history at all; but over the last 3 years the guy has produced for us.... .871 OPS, .579 SLG%, .352 OB%, while averaging 127 games/season in that span.

And he is going to be chasing #600 next year. To an owner, he puts butts in the seats, and there is that marketing aspect.

Now some can justly contend that putting a winning team on that field will also put butts in the seats. Rightly so.

But I don't see how simply dumping Jr accomplishes that? He's not the reason we've seen a poor product on that field.

GAC, you said it much better than I did. I think some of these reporters just believe we're in constant sinking mode and will always be the proverbial poor relations. I just don't buy it. I do think that Griffey will start out the season in Cincy but may be moved prior to the trade deadline making room for Bruce.

dfs
10-08-2007, 09:06 AM
From Atlanta's point of view....Another decent bat in the lineup would be a good thing. Look over the free agent market. How much would they have to spend to get a power guy who can play a corner outfield slot? Bonds, Kelsko, Floyd, Gonzales, Guillen, Matt Stairs, Sosa, Alou, Abreu...That's 9 guys I can come up with in 5 minutes. Sure some of them will end up resigning with their current team, but there's no shortage of injury prone guys who are capable of putting up decent numbers given enough at bats from a corner slot. I'm guessing if you shopped a 1 year 12.5 million dollar contract to that group, the only guy who wouldn't take it would be Abreu. So if you trade for junior, you certainly make the reds eat part of the contract and you don't offer anything too interesting.

From the reds point of view, given Junior's production and status as a draw. You can't just give him away for no return even if it gets Jay Bruce on the field. Throwing away guys who have some value is never a winning strategy. They need to focus on getting the best return for whatever they give up. As much as we fans might like to see them ship off Junior or Dunn for value, the fact is that those guys contract status makes "for value" pretty small.

Now, from Junior's point of view.....Remember Junior is a 10/5 guy. He has to agree to any trade. Early in this season Junior was crowing about wanting to sign up for more years. After the injury, I don't know how he feels about that. I'm sure the tour has been nice and it will be touching to reach that landmark of 600, but the thing junior has not done yet is win a world series title. Unless he's going back to Seattle for a retirement party, I can't imagine that Junior would allow himself to be traded to somebody he doesn't perceive as a serious contender for a world series ring. Anybody want to stand up and say that's the direction the braves franchise is headed? I sure don't. Even with the draw of closer flights to Orlando, I can't see Junior going to Atlanta. If that's the draw, why not just head to the Diamondbacks or the Marlins?

paulrichjr
10-08-2007, 09:19 AM
The Braves can't afford to re-sign Andrew Jones but they can trade for Griffey? Just usually newspaper speculation but I think they will commit their dollars to signing Texiera to a contract extension.

Let's do the math. A. Griffey makes about $12 million next year in the LAST year of his contract. B. Jones wants around $20 million for probably 7 years or so.

Choice: $12 million or a $140 million committment for what was less production last season?

Looks like A is a little less to me.

Team Clark
10-08-2007, 10:28 AM
The Braves can't afford to re-sign Andrew Jones but they can trade for Griffey? Just usually newspaper speculation but I think they will commit their dollars to signing Texiera to a contract extension.

Agreed. The Braves have made it known that there #1 priority is getting Tex locked up. Can't blame them.

Sea Ray
10-08-2007, 10:37 AM
I don't know if there's anything to this rumor. I would guess probably not, but whether it works for the Reds depends on how much $$ we have to eat and what we get in return. I'd like to get Griffey's money off the books and open up RF for Bruce but if Atl doesn't want to pay the lion's share of his salary then I want some real prospects in return.

I think he'll be very difficult to move.

Benihana
10-08-2007, 11:49 AM
The Cubs really want a power hitting lefty outfielder. Griffey said he'd play in Chicago.

Griffey to the Cubs for Sean Marshall seems to work out nicely for both sides.

The Reds sure could use a 25-year old lefty starter with an ERA under 4. With new ownership in Chicago, the Cubs will have no problem shelling out the dough. If you wanted to spice it up a little bit, add Alex Gonzalez and Geovany Soto to the deal. That I like even better. The Cubbies do need a SS, and the Reds could sure use a cheap young catcher who can hit. Problem is, I don't think the Cubs would give up Soto.

fearofpopvol1
10-08-2007, 12:50 PM
The Cubs really want a power hitting lefty outfielder. Griffey said he'd play in Chicago.

Griffey to the Cubs for Sean Marshall seems to work out nicely for both sides.

The Reds sure could use a 25-year old lefty starter with an ERA under 4. With new ownership in Chicago, the Cubs will have no problem shelling out the dough. If you wanted to spice it up a little bit, add Alex Gonzalez and Geovany Soto to the deal. That I like even better. The Cubbies do need a SS, and the Reds could sure use a cheap young catcher who can hit. Problem is, I don't think the Cubs would give up Soto.

I think the Cubs are pretty high on Theriot at SS (hence them getting rid of Izturis). There is no way they would give up their catcher of the future in Soto for Gonzo. I also think the Cubs are very happy with Soriano playing left (lots of putouts this year) and I also think Griffey still would like to play right. Trading in the division is dangerous, though I think Marshall makes sense because the Cubs don't seem to be overly high on him at the moment, but that could change come next year.

GAC
10-08-2007, 06:33 PM
Someone jump in and correct me if I'm wrong because I am trying to understand all the particulars on this contract. Especially the deferred monies aspect....

Junior signed a nine-year 116.5 mil contract with a club option for year 10 (a 4 mil buyout). While Griffey's annual salary is nominally $12.5 million per year, 60 percent of his salary (57.5 mil) is deferred money that won't start earning interest until 2009, and is payable through 2025.

Does that sound about right?

My questions are....

How much have we actually paid him through this season? And if he stays in Cincy through the end of his contract ('08), and we let him walk after that season/excercise that 4 mil buyout, then how much are we going to end up owing him in the deferred monies aspect? What is the breakdown, which is to be paid through 2025? Wasn't it something like 3-4 mil/year?

When I've read trade rumors surrounding Jr, and where the Reds would pay part of his salary, I'm assuming it would be to fulfill the remainder of that 116.5 mil contract, and afterwards the Reds would be free and clear. Correct? No deferred money owed?

redsmetz
10-08-2007, 06:37 PM
Someone jump in and correct me if I'm wrong because I am trying to understand all the particulars on this contract. Especially the deferred monies aspect....

Junior signed a nine-year 116.5 mil contract with a club option for year 10 (a 4 mil buyout). While Griffey's annual salary is nominally $12.5 million per year, 60 percent of his salary (57.5 mil) is deferred money that won't start earning interest until 2009. and is payable through 2025.

Does that sound about right?

My questions are....

How much have we actually paid him through this season? And how much is owed him,incluidng deferrred monies?

When I've read trade rumors surrounding Jr, and where the Reds would pay part of his salary, I'm assuming it would be to fulfill the remainder of that 116.5 mil contract, and afterwards the Reds would be free and clear. Correct?

According to Cots:


9 years/$116.5M (2000-08), plus $16.5M 2009 club option

* 00-08:$12.5M/year, 09:$16.5M club option ($4M buyout)
* $57.5M in salary deferred at 4% interest, to be paid 2009-2024, reducing contract's present-day value at time of signing to between $9.2M and $9.3M annually, according to Reds management sources
o $5.5M of 2000 salary deferred
o $6.5M/year of 2001-2008 salaries deferred
o signed 2/2000, replacing final year of previous contract

I would assume that trading him would only be the remaining contract portions. The Reds have set aside the deferred portions (IIRC they've charged each year's full salary every year on their balance sheets, but I could be wrong). I could see us offering to cover the buyout in a trade, but we'd still need to get a decent return, IMO.

KronoRed
10-08-2007, 07:22 PM
The Reds have set aside the deferred portions (IIRC they've charged each year's full salary every year on their balance sheets, but I could be wrong).

Yes indeedy they have, I'd guess if JR gets traded anywhere the Reds would still be responsible for making those payments from 2009-2024, but with the cash already in hand it won't hurt the bottom line in those years.

GAC
10-08-2007, 08:33 PM
So looking at the chart that redsmetz just posted, Jr's yearly salary is 12.5 mil.

In 2000 we paid him 7 mil (5.5 deferred)
2001-2008 (8 years), we are paying Jr 6 mil/yearly (6.5 mil deferred) = 48 mil total

So that comes to a total, in actual salary, of 55 mil after the '08 season.

Add in the 4 mil buyout if we don't pick up the option year for '09, and that gives a total payout of 59 mil.

That then gives you the remaining figure of 57.5 that is to be paid in yearly increments (plus interest) for the next 17 years (2025) = somewhere around 3.3 mil/yr plus interest.

And the Red's, since the beginning of the contract, have been yearly setting back money to cover the deferred amounts. So, as Krono says, overall it won't hurt the bottomline.

So when we are talking about trading Jr, we are only talking about the last remaining year of his contract, the '08 season, right?

We are still, regardless, going to be on the hook for the remaining deferred money (57.5), which is to be paid beginning in '09 thru 2025.

In '08, and according to the chart where it says 6.5 mil is deferred from '01 thru '08, we will be paying him 6 mil in actual salary, right?

And rumors are that we are actually entertaining paying a portion of that 6 mil just to get rid of him?

If that is true, then that sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

For the 6 mil I'll keep Jr.

15fan
10-08-2007, 08:36 PM
he wants a ring IMO

So wouldn't that rule out the Braves?

;)

KronoRed
10-08-2007, 08:39 PM
So wouldn't that rule out the Braves?

;)

Probably ;)

I think the Reds hold him till July next year then ship him to a contender for some spare chips.

flyer85
10-08-2007, 08:45 PM
Turner Field once was very unfriendly to left handed power hitters. Unless they have changed the dimensions, Griffey might likely veto in favor of staying in friendlier GABP until he reaches 600.He'll reach 600 either way, I doubt Turner Field vs GABP would factor at all in the decision.

Sea Ray
10-08-2007, 08:45 PM
In '08, and according to the chart where it says 6.5 mil is deferred from '01 thru '08, we will be paying him 6 mil in actual salary, right?

And rumors are that we are actually entertaining paying a portion of that 6 mil just to get rid of him?

If that is true, then that sounds pretty ridiculous to me.

For the 6 mil I'll keep Jr.

Unless we agree to do otherwise, the new team would be obligated to his base salary and deferred money for the year(s) they employ him, the way I see it. If the new team balks at paying his deferred money for 2008 then it'd take more prospects to entice me to deal Jr.


As for the deferred money thus far I would think Lindner would have financed it very nicely with an annuity through Great American Financial. It's a win-win for him. Which business does he want to profit from such a deal? Regardless the money is set aside as was stated earlier.

flyer85
10-08-2007, 08:46 PM
The Braves can't afford to re-sign Andrew Jones but they can trade for Griffey.when you realize that Boras is looking for $20M+ a year I would for Andruw ...

REDREAD
10-08-2007, 08:52 PM
At the Jr trade, Allen said that when you take into account the defered money factor, it really only cost about 9 million/year.

Jr had a good season, even though it ended in injury.

I don't want to give a potential 100 RBI bat away to the Braves for a couple B level prospects.. Remember, B level prospects means guys like Bong -- in other words, guys that really aren't in the Braves plans or guys they've soured on. Sure, maybe we'd come up with a hidden gem, but I kind of doubt it.

I doubt you'd be able to find a bat of Jr's caliber for 9 million/year on the free agent market.
Sure, he's an injury risk, but that's mitigated a bit because it's a one year deal. What free agent is going to take a one year deal and have the potential of Jr? A short list, I'm sure.

Let's face it, we're going nowhere next year. Bruce isn't likely to be ready.. if he is ready, he can get plenty of at bats as a 4th OF. We've got Dunn recovering from knee surgery, Freel is a question mark, and Hamilton is also an injury question. I think if we trade Jr away, we are going to give a lot of at bats to waiver wire fodder.. Sure, maybe it doesn't matter since the team is going nowhere.. but Jr sells tickets and gives the fans a reason to come to the game.

I don't like this idea at all. I'd trade Jr for a potential difference maker, but not for two B level guys from Atlanta. Give me another year of Jr over a longshot prospect. It's fine to trade guys like Conine and Lohse for B prospects, but not Jr.

mth123
10-09-2007, 04:50 AM
I don't know all the particulars on this rumor; but how does it help the Reds to pay part of his salary just to ship him to Atlanta for low level prospects?

Just to be rid of (dump) the guy?

Now if this FO is that confident that Bruce is ready for RF, then this may be a possibility.

Not overlooking his past injury history at all; but over the last 3 years the guy has produced for us.... .871 OPS, .579 SLG%, .352 OB%, while averaging 127 games/season in that span.

And he is going to be chasing #600 next year. To an owner, he puts butts in the seats, and there is that marketing aspect.

Now some can justly contend that putting a winning team on that field will also put butts in the seats. Rightly so.

But I don't see how simply dumping Jr accomplishes that? He's not the reason we've seen a poor product on that field.



I agree Krusty.

Its time for the Bruce era. Getting Griffey off the field will improve the defense significantly. Those last three years of production are not insignificant, but if Bruce can match it, the Reds get some salary relief and improve every pitcher on the roster by virtue of catching a percentage of the routine short fly balls that fall in for singles in front of Griffey, then maybe its worth it. I don't really think Griffey or his chase for 600 is going to have much effect on the attendance. Certainly it won't generate as much revenue as the what salary saved would be even if the Reds kick in a portion in a deal.

Improving the OF defense should lighten the load on guys like Harang and Arroyo. An extra out a couple times a week should really reduce the work load on the starters and bullpen and that should have an additional positive effect all around. I am not a big believer in defensive stats so I don't know if they back me up, but IMO Griffey has been the worst defensive OF that I have ever seen in a Red's uniform with the exception of Kal Daniels. That includes Alex Johnson playing in the shade, Richie Scheinbloom looking clueless and the defensive debacle that has been Adam Dunn. Griffey may look a little smoother out there, but in terms of turning balls that should be outs into outs he is about as poor as I can remember. Maybe I apply a tougher standard because somewhere in my brain I know Griffey was an amazing defender once upon a time, but I seem to have more expectations of balls being catchable that end up as hits headed Griffey's way than I do the other defenders on the field combined.