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View Full Version : ??? Is there a trade out there that could include BOTH ???



red-in-la
10-08-2007, 08:23 PM
I was wondering if there might be a team that would jump at taking BOTH Adam Dunn and JR from the Reds for a starting pitcher?

I don't follow the minors so I know nothing about what another team might offer for both JR and Dunn.

I tell you, I wouldn't mind getting this CM Wang for them.

Highlifeman21
10-08-2007, 08:26 PM
I was wondering if there might be a team that would jump at taking BOTH Adam Dunn and JR from the Reds for a starting pitcher?

I don't follow the minors so I know nothing about what another team might offer for both JR and Dunn.

I tell you, I wouldn't mind getting this CM Wang for them.

The same CM Wang that's now gotten knocked around the yard twice by the Indians in the ALDS?

I've always been on the fence about him, and unfortunately the ALDS has made up my mind that I don't want him.

Especially for BOTH Dunn and Griffey.

KronoRed
10-08-2007, 08:28 PM
Nobody is going to take on 25million for 2 players

red-in-la
10-08-2007, 08:38 PM
The same CM Wang that's now gotten knocked around the yard twice by the Indians in the ALDS?

I've always been on the fence about him, and unfortunately the ALDS has made up my mind that I don't want him.

Especially for BOTH Dunn and Griffey.

Sans the playoffs, the guy won 19 games and had a sub 4 era and is a sinkerball pitcher.

red-in-la
10-08-2007, 08:41 PM
Nobody is going to take on 25million for 2 players

I wondered that too.....but several teams wanted to pay Clemens 20 plus million for less than a full season....so, I guess I think the money is out there.

70 Hr's and 200 RBI's is worth probably more than 25 mill on the open market.

PuffyPig
10-08-2007, 08:55 PM
The same CM Wang that's now gotten knocked around the yard twice by the Indians in the ALDS?

I've always been on the fence about him, and unfortunately the ALDS has made up my mind that I don't want him.

Especially for BOTH Dunn and Griffey.

Getting Wang for Dunn and Griffey would make us better and leave us with about $25M to make us even better than better.

With this trade, we would be favorites in the Central.

nate
10-08-2007, 09:10 PM
Would Wang prevent enough runs to make up for the loss of Griffey and Dunn's offense?

LoganBuck
10-08-2007, 09:15 PM
Sans the playoffs, the guy won 19 games and had a sub 4 era and is a sinkerball pitcher.

233 career strikeouts in 533 innings.

GAC
10-08-2007, 09:25 PM
Nobody is going to take on 25million for 2 players

Where are you getting the 25 mil figure from?

KronoRed
10-08-2007, 09:38 PM
Where are you getting the 25 mil figure from?

Roughly 13 for Dunn and 12 for JR

KronoRed
10-08-2007, 09:40 PM
Would Wang prevent enough runs to make up for the loss of Griffey and Dunn's offense?

Trading both puts a lot of presure on Votto and Bruce to become super players right away.

red-in-la
10-08-2007, 09:56 PM
Getting Wang for Dunn and Griffey would make us better and leave us with about $25M to make us even better than better.

With this trade, we would be favorites in the Central.

Maybe the point would be to take that 25 mill and invest it in locking up Phillips and Hamilton and EE and Harang (more than he is already) for the long term.

PuffyPig
10-08-2007, 10:52 PM
Would Wang prevent enough runs to make up for the loss of Griffey and Dunn's offense?


I assume the $25M savings could be spent (in part) on some offense.

fearofpopvol1
10-08-2007, 10:54 PM
No way the Yanks would do this, but if they would, I would go for it. I would use the money saved to invest in more pitching because you could probably lockup a good starter with the money saved (or revamp the bullpen or a combo of both). All of a sudden, the Reds move up in the contention poll.

TOBTTReds
10-08-2007, 11:13 PM
Can't give up both. No way. We would score 2.5 runs a game. We would be relying on Hamilton who we don't know if will be healthy consistantly. A stud rookie, but still a rookie with 0 MLB AB's. And a career minor leaguer that slaps singles and doesn't run the bases well enough to make up for zero power. I don't like that enough to pull the trade off for Wang. You would have to guarantee me that AGonz is our starting SS for every game Wang pitches too if that happened.

Maybe if we signed someone like Mike Cameron or Aaron Rowand to cover CF. Ham in left, MC/AR in center, and Bruce in RF.

Spitball
10-08-2007, 11:14 PM
233 career strikeouts in 533 innings.

I believe he has been good but very lucky.

TOBTTReds
10-08-2007, 11:27 PM
I believe he has been good but very lucky.

I completely agree, but I ask myself: When, if not after 3 great seasons, do I stop thinking it is luck?

Spitball
10-08-2007, 11:54 PM
I completely agree, but I ask myself: When, if not after 3 great seasons, do I stop thinking it is luck?

Probably if he ever comes to Cincinnati. ;)

Yachtzee
10-09-2007, 12:13 AM
Maybe the point would be to take that 25 mill and invest it in locking up Phillips and Hamilton and EE and Harang (more than he is already) for the long term.

But you're now spending a lot more money on guys you already have minus the run production of Dunn and Griffey. If that's the case, then you have to be certain that you have someone in the pipeline who can replace enough of that run production to balance things out. I just don't see anyone giving up the pitching that could prevent runs to the degree that it would offset the loss of run production. I think that if they're going to deal either of these guys, it's better to deal them separately and try to get some potential stud pitcher at the High A/AA level as part of the deal, someone who might be able to make the leap to Cincinnati sometime in the next year. And they better hope they can find some run production somewhere, because I don't see BP, Hamilton and EE picking up the slack by themselves.

WVRedsFan
10-09-2007, 12:28 AM
Getting Wang for Dunn and Griffey would make us better and leave us with about $25M to make us even better than better.

With this trade, we would be favorites in the Central.

We saw what the offense looked like without Dunn and Griffey. Wang alone would not save 200 runs.

The emasculation of this club is in trading big, and I mean big, run producers for a pitcher that pitches every fifth day.

Votto + Bruce does not = Dunn + Griffey. No way. no how.

fearofpopvol1
10-09-2007, 12:29 AM
But you're now spending a lot more money on guys you already have minus the run production of Dunn and Griffey. If that's the case, then you have to be certain that you have someone in the pipeline who can replace enough of that run production to balance things out. I just don't see anyone giving up the pitching that could prevent runs to the degree that it would offset the loss of run production. I think that if they're going to deal either of these guys, it's better to deal them separately and try to get some potential stud pitcher at the High A/AA level as part of the deal, someone who might be able to make the leap to Cincinnati sometime in the next year. And they better hope they can find some run production somewhere, because I don't see BP, Hamilton and EE picking up the slack by themselves.

Bruce? Votto? They're not sure fires in the majors by any means because they haven't played full seasons yet, but it seems to me that they may be able to make up some of that gap. Will it be all of it? No. However, the Dbacks have proven that with good pitching, even an offense with hardly any firepower can win (and the Reds with that configuration would have a lot more production on paper than the Dbacks would).

Yachtzee
10-09-2007, 01:27 AM
Bruce? Votto? They're not sure fires in the majors by any means because they haven't played full seasons yet, but it seems to me that they may be able to make up some of that gap. Will it be all of it? No. However, the Dbacks have proven that with good pitching, even an offense with hardly any firepower can win (and the Reds with that configuration would have a lot more production on paper than the Dbacks would).

If I knew Bruce and Votto were ready to take over tomorrow and could do reasonably well at replacing that production, then maybe it's not so bad, if you have the pitching to balance the loss in production. But the key getting good pitching in return. The Reds really need to get on the stick with identifying and developing their own pitching and knowing more about the pitching available in other systems. Pitching is getting more expensive, so it's not every day that you're going to snag a Harang for a Jose Guillen or an Arroyo for a Wily Mo Pena.

Ron Madden
10-09-2007, 02:38 AM
I assume the $25M savings could be spent (in part) on some offense.

Good luck finding run production any cheaper than what Adam Dunn provides for the Reds.

pahster
10-09-2007, 08:04 AM
I assume the $25M savings could be spent (in part) on some offense.

Like who? The only FA COF name I see that's particularly enticing is Bobby Abreu.

PuffyPig
10-09-2007, 09:43 AM
I believe he has been good but very lucky.


Wang has been successful because he has an extremely low walk rate, and a very high ground ball rate, resulting in a very low HR rate.

His DIPS ERA is pretty much the same as his actual ERA.

TOBTTReds
10-09-2007, 10:57 AM
Like who? The only FA COF name I see that's particularly enticing is Bobby Abreu.

He's probably staying with the Yankees. Team option.

jojo
10-09-2007, 11:09 AM
Hmmmm...that would give the Yankees an outfield of Damon, Matsui, Cabrera, Dunn and Jr for roughly $52M. While aside from Cebrera there are some serious range issues with each one in the bunch, it would be tough to find a gap between all five.... :cool: