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Strikes Out Looking
10-10-2007, 12:20 PM
Reports have A-Rod possibly opting out of his contract and being rewarded with a new long term contract worth more than $30 million per year. I just don't get it. First, his current contract is being paid by two teams, which a new contract wont. Second, while he is a great offensive player, he has exactly lit up the post season (when he's managed to get there). Am I the only one who thinks he's overvalued at $30 plus million a year, and any team that takes him on for that type of money is delusional?

Falls City Beer
10-10-2007, 12:22 PM
Reports have A-Rod possibly opting out of his contract and being rewarded with a new long term contract worth more than $30 million per year. I just don't get it. First, his current contract is being paid by two teams, which a new contract wont. Second, while he is a great offensive player, he has exactly lit up the post season (when he's managed to get there). Am I the only one who thinks he's overvalued at $30 plus million a year, and any team that takes him on for that type of money is delusional?

Great player. No player's worth that much.

redsfan4445
10-10-2007, 12:30 PM
On the radio last night, Boras is saying he can get Arod 500 million to a billion dollars!! Thats insane!!!

And this is what was posted also:
"Mike Lupica of the New York Daily News ups the ante, suggesting Boras could find a team to pay $400MM over eleven years."

BRM
10-10-2007, 12:35 PM
This is from Peter Abraham's blog.



In comments to a wide assortment of reporters, most of them based in New York, Scott Boras says that he will recommend that Alex Rodriguez opts out of his contract.

Boras is saying A-Rod can play until he’s 45, hit 1,000 home runs and and be worth up to $1 billion for a regional cable television network. He seems to be seeking at least a 10-year deal worth an average of $33 million a year.

Brian Cashman said again today that the Yankees would not pursue Rodriguez if he becomes a free agent.

There are two possibilities here. Boras and Cashman mean what they say and A-Rod is gone. Or this is just the start of posturing.

The Yankees are almost certainly going to offer A-Rod a contract extension. What Boras said today is essentially the start of those negotiations.

A-Rod has until 10 days after the World Series to inform the Yankees of his intentions.


LINK (http://yankees.lohudblogs.com/2007/10/09/boras-a-rod-should-opt-out/)

Heath
10-10-2007, 12:42 PM
Wonder if ARod needs a reference from Tom Hicks.

Who is going to pay that? The Royals?

At that price, who can pay them except for the Yankees? Angels? Dodgers? Cubs?

westofyou
10-10-2007, 12:45 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3055752


Boras thinks that Rodriguez's pursuit of the home run record will make him even more valuable on TV. He also says that by playing until he's 45, Rodriguez would also end up passing Pete Rose, who has baseball's all-time hits record of 4,256.

Rodriguez currently has 518 home runs and 2,250 hits.

"The thing about Alex is he has a chance to play 12 more years and break the all-time hit record," Boras said. "It is a record that he could break. You only have to go and map out that if Alex Rodriguez were to play until he is 45 and he averaged 35 home runs he would have over 1,000 homers. It is a unique platform where he is at at such a young age. The projections are rather mind-boggling when you consider the fact even if he performed at a level that is 15 percent below what he is performing at now, he still would lift many of these records just by the mere fact that he has played this long."

In the free agent book that Boras has planned, he will detail what Rodriguez has accomplished at 32.

"You don't talk about projections," Boras said. "You really talk about what he has done. The key point to what Alex has done is that over the last 10 years is that when you are talking about home runs, RBIs and runs scored, no one in baseball history has ever done what he has done over the last 10 years. The consistency of having the 35 home runs, having the number of RBIs and runs scored."

Rodriguez currently has 518 home runs and 2,250 hits.

Ken Griffey Jr. says hello, and reminds Mr Boros that nothing is ever set in stone in baseball.

Nothing.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 12:50 PM
I think it's between the Yankees and Angels. I think with the Cubs ownership in flux and the fact they have several guys making big time money, they won't sign him.

Arte Moreno loves him some Hispanic players and perhaps A-Rod can be that nudge that puts the Angels first in the hearts and minds of Los Angelenos. It'd be a fresh start for A-Rod and less pressure than in NYC. He might be able to play SS there too if he wants.

And then there's the Yankees. They could afford to pay him $30M a year and not blink an eye. In the end, Boros is all about the money so I'm guessing A-Rod stays in NYC. Somebody's going to pay him no matter what people think he's worth.

RedsManRick
10-10-2007, 12:53 PM
I think he'll get his per annum, but I'd be shocked if anybody goes more than 5 or 6 years

Chip R
10-10-2007, 12:56 PM
I think he'll get his per annum, but I'd be shocked if anybody goes more than 5 or 6 years


You're probably right. They may stick some kind of option in there after year 5 to give one side or the other an out.

How many years did Zito get?

BRM
10-10-2007, 12:57 PM
I think he'll get his per annum, but I'd be shocked if anybody goes more than 5 or 6 years

A team would be nuts to go more than 5 or 6 years.

flyer85
10-10-2007, 12:59 PM
I think he'll get his per annum, but I'd be shocked if anybody goes more than 5 or 6 years
Boros has been a magician who finds a team that will bid against itself.

flyer85
10-10-2007, 01:00 PM
A team would be nuts to go more than 5 or 6 years.... that was being said about Soriano last year.

BRM
10-10-2007, 01:02 PM
... that was being said about Soriano last year.

Good point.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 01:04 PM
... that was being said about Soriano last year.


The point still stands. ;)

flyer85
10-10-2007, 01:05 PM
All I can say is Arod is unique. He can play a tough defensive position well and is one of the best offensive players in the game. No other player in baseball can match his skill set.

Is he worth $30M a year? I don't know but I believe that Boras can find a team that will pay it.

BRM
10-10-2007, 01:07 PM
I agree with RMR that he'll get $30M+ annually. I just have a hard time believing any team will go beyond 5 or 6 years. Certainly not 10 years.

JaxRed
10-10-2007, 01:08 PM
And 3 or 4 years into the contract (if not sooner) the team will rue it.

jojo
10-10-2007, 01:11 PM
On the radio last night, Boras is saying he can get Arod 500 million to a billion dollars!! Thats insane!!!

And this is what was posted also:
"Mike Lupica of the New York Daily News ups the ante, suggesting Boras could find a team to pay $400MM over eleven years."

I think Boras has finally jumped the shark.

The FA market is likely due for a big correction in the coming years as player development becomes more and more emphasized even by big market clubs like LAA, NYY, and the BoSox. Even if I'm overstating the trends, 11 years and $400MM is more likely meant to get his few suitors that are already balking at 6 yrs/$30M over their sticker shock.

RedsManRick
10-10-2007, 01:12 PM
The thing is, once the per annum price goes above 20, that takes 25 teams or so out of the running. A few others will remove themselves even though they could conceivable afford him. So you're left with 2 or 3 bidders. At that point, the imaginary "somebody will do it" fear lessens.

Just because a few select owners have made stupid decisions in the past doesn't make it a law of nature. Though the market is slow to change, it does change and adapt. I think Boras is setting the bar so high precisely because he knows it's not reasonable. Thus, when somebody "only" offers 6 & 200, they'll think that they are getting a deal.

The negotiations have already started and Boras is setting the bar as high as he can. Ask for $5 bucks and you might get 3. Ask for $10 and you might get 4. So while $10 seems unreasonable, the goal at the end of the day is getting 4 instead of 3. And maybe, just maybe, Tom Hicks will give you 12.

fearofpopvol1
10-10-2007, 01:18 PM
I think he could get 8 years...but very doubtful he'd get 10+.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 01:21 PM
Like I said before, somebody's going to sign him. A-Rod's not going to be without a team come Opening Day 2008. And I think we're dreaming if we think he and Boros aren't going to sign for anything less than a substantial increase of what he made last year.

pedro
10-10-2007, 01:22 PM
I think he ends up in San Francisco

Heath
10-10-2007, 01:41 PM
I think he ends up in San Francisco

Well, since Bonds comes off the books, that's probably the best guess right now. Money-wise.

However, who is there to protect him in the lineup? Pedro Feliz?

RedsManRick
10-10-2007, 01:52 PM
Like I said before, somebody's going to sign him. A-Rod's not going to be without a team come Opening Day 2008. And I think we're dreaming if we think he and Boros aren't going to sign for anything less than a substantial increase of what he made last year.

Well, if there are no teams willing to pay him more than $30M per year, and no teams willing to give him more than 6 years, then he'll either have a contract along those lines or he will be without a team. Boras is amazing at what he does, but even in the MLB, there is a finite number of idiots.

I would love (just for the interest of it) to see the Angels sign him and then trade Wood, Adenhart, and Aybar for Johan. That would be classic.

nate
10-10-2007, 01:53 PM
Well, since Bonds comes off the books, that's probably the best guess right now. Money-wise.

However, who is there to protect him in the lineup? Pedro Feliz?

Rich Aurilia!

Chip R
10-10-2007, 01:54 PM
Well, since Bonds comes off the books, that's probably the best guess right now. Money-wise.

However, who is there to protect him in the lineup? Pedro Feliz?


I dunno. It's not like Bonds was getting $20M last year. He was only getting $15M. Now I don't know who else is coming off the payroll but A-Rod's going to be asking for twice that.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 01:56 PM
Well, if there are no teams willing to pay him more than $30M per year, and no teams willing to give him more than 6 years, then he'll either have a contract along those lines or he will be without a team.


Sure. In Fantasyland.

pedro
10-10-2007, 01:57 PM
I dunno. It's not like Bonds was getting $20M last year. He was only getting $15M. Now I don't know who else is coming off the payroll but A-Rod's going to be asking for twice that.

But they were paying Bonds more before that. They have money, even after the scads of cash they're dumping on Zito.

I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up a Dodger either.

BoydsOfSummer
10-10-2007, 02:07 PM
Remember way back when how nutso we thought Sandberg's 7M per year was. Zowee!

Cedric
10-10-2007, 02:08 PM
Honestly I think the Dodgers or the Angels are the only choices. I'd be shocked if San Francisco went with Arod with the way Magowan and Sabean described as their next plan.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 02:21 PM
I'd be shocked if San Francisco went with Arod with the way Magowan and Sabean described as their next plan.


Could you elaborate on that? I'm not familiar with what they said.

blumj
10-10-2007, 02:30 PM
Teams that wouldn't surprise me at all if they went and dumped a massive truckload of cash on A-Rod: Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, White Sox. That's 6 teams. There are probably about 6 more, like the Giants and Tigers, who wouldn't make you faint with the shock if they did it.

KronoRed
10-10-2007, 03:04 PM
Great player. No player's worth that much.

Not even close, I'll take 2 Adam Dunn's and an Aaron Harang for the same price.

Play till he's 45? not likely.

oneupper
10-10-2007, 03:07 PM
Play till he's 45? not likely.

He can be the next Rabbit Maranville.

Heath
10-10-2007, 03:12 PM
Dumb thought.

Cuban buys the Cubs. Gives A-Rod equity in the team.

Matt700wlw
10-10-2007, 03:13 PM
Great player. No player's worth that much.

The stars have aligned and a rare occurance has emerged...

I agree with FCB

:D

pedro
10-10-2007, 03:14 PM
Dumb thought.

Cuban buys the Cubs. Gives A-Rod equity in the team.

baseball will never allow this.

bucksfan2
10-10-2007, 03:21 PM
Could this be Boras ultimate downfall. ARod is probably the best player in baseball but no one is worth that much money. If there are only 3 teams involved what stops the teams from saying we aren't going to pay that much. What stops Boras from having ARod opt out and ARod gets less money. I have a feeling that whoever signs ARod won't be appearing in the World Series during his tenure with the team.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 03:23 PM
Could this be Boras ultimate downfall. ARod is probably the best player in baseball but no one is worth that much money. If there are only 3 teams involved what stops the teams from saying we aren't going to pay that much.


Collusion.

redsmetz
10-10-2007, 03:25 PM
Dumb thought.

Cuban buys the Cubs. Gives A-Rod equity in the team.

That notion has already been kaboshed - a player cannot own an equity in a team. MLB shot it down and there were questions about Cuban approaching tampering just making the suggestion. Am I remembering this correctly?

redsmetz
10-10-2007, 03:25 PM
It will be interesting to see if Texas is able to take some advantage from finally being out from under their portion of his contract.

Heath
10-10-2007, 03:30 PM
Collusion.

Tough to prove - but someone's gonna blink.

jojo
10-10-2007, 03:31 PM
Collusion.

It's not collusion if all three legitimately pass without conspiring with each other.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 03:34 PM
It's not collusion if all three legitimately pass without conspiring with each other.


True. But even raising the issue could spook a team into meeting his asking price. Weren't the damages trebled in the collusion decisions against MLB?

jojo
10-10-2007, 03:52 PM
True. But even raising the issue could spook a team into meeting his asking price. Weren't the damages trebled in the collusion decisions against MLB?

It would have to be positively frightful even for the Yankees to be scared into a 6yr/$180M commitment that they otherwise decided wasn't in their best interests.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 04:04 PM
It would have to be positively frightful even for the Yankees to be scared into a 6yr/$180M commitment that they otherwise decided wasn't in their best interests.


It's not like they can't afford it. And it doesn't have to be the Yankees either. Regardless, there is no way on God's green earth that a guy with A-Rod's stats and ability is going to be unemployed once the season starts unless it's by choice or he goes dirt biking with Ron Gant.

Any way the Nats would sign him? They are supposedly going to be sitting on a pile of money beginning next year with their new stadium and whatnot. Of course their GM is kind of a shy, retiring fellow who doesn't like to make a splash. ;)

RedsManRick
10-10-2007, 04:05 PM
Collusion.

Nothing stops 3 people from independently coming to the same conclusion. When it's 30 teams, it's easy to make the case for collusion. But when it's 3, it's virtually impossible to prove. Boras' biggest challenge with A-Rod is going to be keeping enough teams in the bidding process to maintain the invisible threat against which Hicks bid previously.

The problem with the collusion fiasco in the 80's was that it was an across the board act against nearly every free agent. The unwillingness to shell out record money for a single player is hardly a case for collusion. Collusion is typically regarded as an act against the market itself, not a specific player. It's like an economic hate crime.

Johnny Footstool
10-10-2007, 04:08 PM
Remember way back when how nutso we thought Sandberg's 7M per year was. Zowee!

For one brief, shining moment in the early '90s, the Reds made Eric Davis the highest paid player in baseball. It was during the off-season. By the start of spring training, he was 4th on the list.

I remember because it was a current events question in our high school quiz bowl competition.

Chip R
10-10-2007, 04:16 PM
Nothing stops 3 people from independently coming to the same conclusion. When it's 30 teams, it's easy to make the case for collusion. But when it's 3, it's virtually impossible to prove. Boras' biggest challenge with A-Rod is going to be keeping enough teams in the bidding process to maintain the invisible threat against which Hicks bid previously.

The problem with the collusion fiasco in the 80's was that it was an across the board act against nearly every free agent. The unwillingness to shell out record money for a single player is hardly a case for collusion. Collusion is typically regarded as an act against the market itself, not a specific player. It's like an economic hate crime.

You may be right. But even raising the issue may be enough to get him signed. It's like the anti-trust exemption. It's highly unlikely Congress is ever going to take that away from MLB but watch them jump when they threaten to do it. All Boros has to say is, "Collusion" and Selig's going to be on the horn to those teams telling them that one of them is going to have to sign him.

I really don't think Boros is going to have problems with teams competing against each other. In this thread we've talked about the Cubs, Yankees, Angels, Giants and Dodgers as serious contenders for his services. All Boros needs are two teams to compete for A-Rod. He only had the Mets and Giants going for Zito last year IIRC. You gotta remember this isn't Eric Milton we're talking about. We're talking about the best player in the game.

bucksfan2
10-10-2007, 04:17 PM
Nothing stops 3 people from independently coming to the same conclusion. When it's 30 teams, it's easy to make the case for collusion. But when it's 3, it's virtually impossible to prove. Boras' biggest challenge with A-Rod is going to be keeping enough teams in the bidding process to maintain the invisible threat against which Hicks bid previously.

The problem with the collusion fiasco in the 80's was that it was an across the board act against nearly every free agent. The unwillingness to shell out record money for a single player is hardly a case for collusion. Collusion is typically regarded as an act against the market itself, not a specific player. It's like an economic hate crime.

I am not old enough to remember the Collusion in the 80's. However if you want to call it collusion or not it would not be a good thing for baseball for ARod to get an outrageous contract. I understand the free market aspects of it but there has got to be a point where outrageous contracts stop. Its not the contracts themselves that are awful its what it does to the FA market. I have a feeling that the Zito contract the Giants gave out last season will end up biting the giants in the arse but I also believe it will artifically drive up the market for average left handed starters.

Cedric
10-10-2007, 04:25 PM
Could you elaborate on that? I'm not familiar with what they said.

Read a transcript of a chat on MLB.com with Sabean for his part. Doesn't fully rule out big priced players though I guess.

"Sabean: Producing home-grown players is going to be one of our main goals in the future. Of the 35 players on the big-league roster at the conclusion of the season, 18 were products of the Giants farm system. Two of our Minor League clubs won their league championships in 2007, while five of the six teams posted winning marks. In fact, only the Yankees farm teams have a better winning percentage over the last three seasons than the Giants."

Here is another quote that makes me think he isn't gonna spend 200 million dollars for Arod.

"Sabean: We're definitely looking to build this team around pitching, speed and defense, all attributes that are suited to both AT&T Park and the style of play in the National League West. Our starting pitching is among the best in the game, and there are a lot of clubs that would like to be able to say that. Again, we realize that we have to upgrade our offense and our bullpen."

Sabean also mentioned that Bonds had deferred money that will count into the next few years salary structure.

I can't find direct quotes from Macgowan. I just heard him in a radio interview explaining the same thing about deferred cash and trying to get younger, faster, and built on defense/speed.

Roy Tucker
10-10-2007, 04:27 PM
On the radio last night, Boras is saying he can get Arod 500 million to a billion dollars!! Thats insane!!!

And this is what was posted also:
"Mike Lupica of the New York Daily News ups the ante, suggesting Boras could find a team to pay $400MM over eleven years."

A million here, a million there, pretty soon, you're talking about real money.

Angels or Dodgers make the most sense to me. A-Rod has always struck me a California kind of guy. I don't think NY has ever quite taken to him.

Maybe BCast will sell a few extra heads of cauliflower and spring for him. :cool:

Falls City Beer
10-10-2007, 04:29 PM
Maybe BCast will sell a few extra heads of cauliflower and spring for him. :cool:


Did you know?

Carl Lindner has more net worth than George Steinbrenner?

Chip R
10-10-2007, 04:30 PM
Thanks for the recap, Cedric. I agree that it doesn't appear like they are looking for someone like A-Rod but if the Dodgers get involved, you never know.

Cedric
10-10-2007, 04:34 PM
Thanks for the recap, Cedric. I agree that it doesn't appear like they are looking for someone like A-Rod but if the Dodgers get involved, you never know.

No problem. Took me some time to dig up that MLB.com article I read.

Sea Ray
10-10-2007, 04:52 PM
With the pool of teams who can afford his services so low I don't see how Boras can get a boatload for A-Rod. The Yankess will bid about $30mill/yr for his services and if A-Rod says no then they will bow out and turn the page, not getting into a bidding war. At that point there'd be very few teams to bid up his services. I'd be very surprised if he gets much more than $30mill/yr.

remdog
10-10-2007, 04:57 PM
Did you know?

Carl Lindner has more net worth than George Steinbrenner?

That great lakes shipping company that George inherited from his family (American Steamship, IIRC) was a nice little company but not exactly a global juggernaut. However, back in the day, George basicly bought the Yankees for chump change. He then pretty much gave up on American and turned his concentration to the Yanks. Basically, the Yankees are George's core business whereas it was simply a sideline/civic duty type of thing with Carl.

Not knocking anyone here. The point is/was that George spent most/all of his energy on making the Yankees his focus point. Over the period that George has owned the Yankees it's pretty much a rare thing what with most owners (either corporations or individuals) running a team almost as an afterthought.

Rem

bucksfan2
10-10-2007, 05:11 PM
Did you know?

Carl Lindner has more net worth than George Steinbrenner?

True but as the poster above Steinbrenner made his millions with the Yankees. He bought the team for 10M and not it is worth over a billion. Not too bad a return on investment. They treat the ball clubs differently. Steinbrenner basically treated the Yankees like a groth stock while Linder treated the reds like a mature stock and was in it for the dividens that it paid. By the time Linders stake with the reds is sold he will make a couple million dollars while Steinbrenner has made over a billion dollars.

westofyou
10-10-2007, 05:17 PM
He bought the team for 10M and not it is worth over a billion.

Bud bought the Pilots for 10.8... well Bud and bunch of Milwaukee guys like Schlitz owner and Ed Fitzgerald. He sold it in 2005 for 220 million.

When Steinbrenner bought the Yankees in 1973 he said this:

"We plan an absentee ownership, we aren't going to pretend to be something we aren't . "I'll stick to building ships."

Chip R
10-10-2007, 05:20 PM
By the time Linders stake with the reds is sold he will make a couple million dollars while Steinbrenner has made over a billion dollars.


That's only if he sells the club.

redsmetz
10-10-2007, 05:26 PM
From an ESPN story when A-Rod signed his contract in 2000:


The previous high for a baseball player was set just Saturday: a $121 million, eight-year contract between left-hander Mike Hampton and the Colorado Rockies.

Until then, baseball's largest deal had been a $116.5 million, nine-year contract agreed to in February by Ken Griffey Jr. and the Cincinnati Reds when Seattle traded the center fielder last February.

redsmetz
10-10-2007, 05:29 PM
Here's an interesting blog post from the 1st of the month viz Rodriguez titled "Alex Rodriguez and the Importance of Market Forecasting"

http://www.squawkingbaseball.com/?p=22

Falls City Beer
10-10-2007, 06:51 PM
True but as the poster above Steinbrenner made his millions with the Yankees. He bought the team for 10M and not it is worth over a billion. Not too bad a return on investment. They treat the ball clubs differently. Steinbrenner basically treated the Yankees like a groth stock while Linder treated the reds like a mature stock and was in it for the dividens that it paid. By the time Linders stake with the reds is sold he will make a couple million dollars while Steinbrenner has made over a billion dollars.

I wasn't attaching any specific argument to pointing out that Lindner has more net worth than Steinbrenner. Just thought it was interesting.

jojo
10-10-2007, 06:55 PM
I actually think owners like George S are a good thing for the game.

remdog
10-10-2007, 09:07 PM
I wasn't attaching any specific argument to pointing out that Lindner has more net worth than Steinbrenner. Just thought it was interesting.

I realize you weren't necessarily speaking to me FCB and I understand that you weren't arguing a particular point but I commented because I agree with you---it is interesting the way various owners approach their teams.

Jojo, I don't know if George is good for the game but it would certainly appear that he is good for fans of his team being successful----well, up to the point you find you can no longer afford to go to a game. ;)

Rem

remdog
10-10-2007, 09:11 PM
Steinbrenner showed his tendencies early when he owned the Cleveland Pipers in the old ABL. From www.ohiohistorycentral.org:

Cleveland Pipers
Home » History » Organizations » Cleveland Pipers
In 1961, Abe Saperstein, Paul Cohen, and George Steinbrenner, among others, attempted to form a new professional basketball league to rival the National Basketball Association (NBA). The developers enlisted the best teams from the National Alliance of Basketball Leagues and from the Amateur Athletic Union to form the American Basketball League. Among the league’s founding teams was Steinbrenner’s Cleveland Pipers. The Pipers had previously played in the Amateur Athletic Union, having won this league’s championship in the previous season.

In the American Basketball League, the Cleveland Pipers emerged as a dominant team. John McClendon served as the squad’s first coach. As coach of the Pipers, McClendon became the first African American to serve as head coach of a major professional basketball team. The squad won the league championship in its first season (1961-1962), although McClendon was not the coach by season’s end. According to McClendon, Steinbrenner kept interfering in coaching decisions, prompting McClendon to resign midseason.

Following the 1961-1962 season, Steinbrenner signed basketball sensation Jerry Lucas to a contract to play for the Pipers. Steinbrenner, however, had no intention of having the Cleveland Pipers play in the American Basketball League. By signing such a famous player, Steinbrenner hoped to move the squad to the National Basketball Association. Unfortunately for the Pipers, the NBA refused to allow the team to join the league, prompting Steinbrenner to disband the team before the start of the ABL’s second season. The ABL, itself, ended before the completion of the 1962-1963 season.

George spent pretty freely on that team (relative to the day). It also included Dick (Fall back, baby!) Barnett and Connie Hawkins.

Rem

vaticanplum
10-10-2007, 09:14 PM
Angels or Dodgers make the most sense to me. A-Rod has always struck me a California kind of guy. I don't think NY has ever quite taken to him.

And here I am thinking that it's so out of the realm of comprehension that A-Rod will end up anywhere but New York that I wonder if I'm living in a bubble.

REDREAD
10-10-2007, 11:09 PM
I bet he gets his 30 million/year easily.

Sure, it's easy to say 2 Dunns + 1 Harang is better, but that's not a fair comparison.

You have to compare against other FA signings.

For example: Meche, Soriano, Weaver, etc.

When the Royals don't blink at giving Meche 11 million/year, 30 million doesn't seem that crazy. Heck, Manny Rameriz got 20 million/year quite a while ago.

There's a lot of teams in which Arod would be a great fit. He's a huge competitive advantage. If a team is willing to have a 100+ million dollar payroll, why not consider ARod?

REDREAD
10-10-2007, 11:11 PM
Nothing stops 3 people from independently coming to the same conclusion. When it's 30 teams, it's easy to make the case for collusion. But when it's 3, it's virtually impossible to prove. .

Yep, there's no chance of proving collusion if it's just Arod asking for too much.

Let's remember the collusion years. Allstar FAs like Lance Parrish weren't even getting offers until spring training.. IIRC, Lance signed for something like 750k, well below market value, even back then. It was clear collusion and obvious at the time, although many fans were deluded into thinking that "massive common sense" had settled in.

RedEye
10-10-2007, 11:21 PM
All I can say is Arod is unique. He can play a tough defensive position well and is one of the best offensive players in the game. No other player in baseball can match his skill set.

Is he worth $30M a year? I don't know but I believe that Boras can find a team that will pay it.

Hate to say it, but if Boras can find someone who will pay that much, then A-Rod is worth that much.

Tom Servo
10-10-2007, 11:26 PM
The previous high for a baseball player was set just Saturday: a $121 million, eight-year contract between left-hander Mike Hampton and the Colorado Rockies.
Imagine we had given Milton that deal? :yikes:

Spitball
10-11-2007, 12:05 AM
I remember when Carl Yastrzemski became the highest paid player in baseball back in the late sixties. He became a lightning rod for criticism with the fans and media because he was human and not the absolute $126,000 superman that was expectected. I thought about Yaz when I went to a Rangers' game in 2003, and I heard the boos when Alex Rodriguez came to the plate. He was the best player on the team but was the focus of frustration with the fans. Because the Rangers were bad, A-Rod and his salary took the blame. His salary, along with Chan Ho Park's, put the Rangers' in a financial hole.

In my opinion, Alex Rodriguez would be wise to take much less money to play for a team like St. Louis. A city where he would be appreciated and where his accomplishments would be recognized and failures accepted.

RedEye
10-11-2007, 12:14 AM
In my opinion, Alex Rodriguez would be wise to take much less money to play for a team like St. Louis. A city where he would be appreciated and where his accomplishments would be recognized and failures accepted.

By that rationale, maybe he could play in Cincinnati! I mean, he doesn't strike out too much, he hits well with runners in scoring position, and he plays excellent defense... we'd love him!

KronoRed
10-11-2007, 03:02 AM
By that rationale, maybe he could play in Cincinnati! I mean, he doesn't strike out too much, he hits well with runners in scoring position, and he plays excellent defense... we'd love him!

No way, he's not clutch and what about his hustle? does he run out to his spot on the field?

mth123
10-11-2007, 03:38 AM
I'd say the Red Sox look like a spot for him. Lowell and Clement come off the books, Crisp will be dumped to make room for Ellsbury. That is $22 Million right there. This year there is no huge posting fee like they paid last year for Dice-K. With Lowell leaving there is an opening at 3B. I think the money is available, the position is in need and it is a stab at their archrival.

If this team can afford a huge posting fee for an unknown commodity, it can put similar money into an annuity with annual returns that can pay part of the contract for the sake of the game's best player. The rest can be financed through the payroll slots openig up. Remember that Manny comes off the books at $20 Milion per year in a couple years. They really only need to absorb a moderate payroll hit for a year or two.

jmcclain19
10-11-2007, 04:36 AM
The Giants look like quite the sleeper in this whole thing. I also wouldn't count out the Angels. Arte Moreno may be talking big about not wanting to pay one player too much, but if push comes to shove and the Angels have a good chance of getting ARod, you can bet he'll pay.

oneupper
10-11-2007, 07:03 AM
Any chance A-Rod goes back to SS? It's not like he wasn't good there.

blumj
10-11-2007, 08:37 AM
Any chance A-Rod goes back to SS? It's not like he wasn't good there.
Well, if a team is willing to pay him a ridiculous amount of money for a ridiculous number of years, I'd guess the team would let him play SS if he wants to play SS, too. Even if he isn't as good at it any more.

bucksfan2
10-11-2007, 09:26 AM
I think he ends up in New York. I actually think he signs a new deal before he opts out of his old contract. I don't see him going to boston. I dont see them signing that bad of a contract ot get ARod. If a team not named the Red Sox, Yankees, LAA, or Dodgers to that extent sign ARond I dont know if ARod ever makes it to the world series. $30M/year is just too big of a contract to overcome.

RFS62
10-11-2007, 09:30 AM
What makes ARod tick?

Is it just money? Seems like he already has enough to live like a king.

Titles? Didn't seem like it when he signed with the Rangers.

Fan appreciation? Hasn't had much of that in New York.

Place in history? Sounds like it to me, but where do you go to insure that?

Highlifeman21
10-11-2007, 10:11 AM
Any chance A-Rod goes back to SS? It's not like he wasn't good there.

ARod will play SS for the Cubs next year.

GAC
10-11-2007, 10:24 AM
From The Brushback.com :lol:

Scott Boras Demands $35 Million To Rescue Drowning Child

EAST HAMPTON, NY--Scott Boras has long been known as a tough negotiator. That reputation was bolstered yesterday when the super agent demanded $35 million to rescue a small child drowning in the ocean near Boras’s home in East Hampton, New York.

The child, an eight-year-old named Danny Corgin, was swimming at a private beach when he was caught in the undertow and dragged away. As he flailed and cried for help, Boras relaxed on the deck of his luxury yacht. The boy’s grandmother pleaded with Boras to help, but the agent steadfastly refused, holding steady to his demand for $35 million dollars.

“My grandson was swimming around when all of a sudden he was caught in a riptide and dragged out to sea,” said Ethel Corgin, the boy’s grandmother. “I didn’t know what to do. There was nobody else around and I certainly couldn’t help him. I saw that man relaxing on his yacht, reading a book like there was nothing going on. When I asked for his help, he just said ‘You want me to save a drowning child? Hmmm…that kind of thing will run you around 35 million.’ I tried to negotiate with him, but he was unwavering. I’ve never seen anyone so stubborn, greedy, and heartless in my life. What is he, a sports agent?”

Corgin said that she was struck by Boras’s casual demeanor, even as her grandson struggled to stay afloat in the vicious riptide.

“He was panicking, the poor thing. He thought he was going to drown, I’m sure,” she said. “There was nothing I could do but pray. I thought for sure that [Boras] would help but he really wanted that money. He said I could give him 10 million up front and sign a written guarantee to deliver the rest within a week. He had the contracts already made up. He just whited out ‘third baseman’ and added ‘drowning child.’”

In the end, a deal was not struck. Fortunately, a fishing boat came by and plucked young Danny out of the water before he could drown. Corgin was relieved, but still outraged over Boras’s refusal to rescue her grandson.

For his part, Boras explained that he was just exercising good business sense and prudent negotiating.

“How much is an eight-year old boy’s life worth?” asked Boras. “Can you really ever say ‘No- that’s too expensive. I’d rather just let the boy drown?’ No, of course not. I was shocked when Mrs. Keelan refused my offer to save the boy. If you’re not willing to shell out a few bucks to save the life of a child, you’ve got to take a long look in the mirror. Nothing’s free in this world. If you want something, you have to pay for it. It’s called ‘capitalism.’ Obviously Mrs. Corgin is some kind of godless commie freak.”

While young Danny was drowning, Boras described his mood as “horrified” and denied Corgin ’s allegations that he was casually reading his book.

“I think she is in denial or something,” said Boras. “It’s crazy to say that I was just causally looking on. I kept thinking how much I would love to save the boy and what a great situation it would be if I could just swing over there in my boat and grab him, but Mrs. Corgin and I just couldn’t see eye to eye on compensation. I even acquiesced a little and told her to just give me 10 million up front, since the boy was dying and all. But she still refused. Talk about stubborn. She ought to be arrested for child neglect.”

Several baseball owners and general managers have had similar experiences with Boras. After learning about the East Hampton incident, a few came forward in support of Mrs. Corgin.

Arizona Diamondbacks GM Joe Gargiola, who haggled with Boras this year over the team’s number one draft pick, called the agent “a piece of ****.”

“That guy is a horrible *******,” he said. “He wouldn’t save his own damn child for free. If I were that woman, Mrs. Corgin, I’d sue him for everything he has. How can you sit in your yacht and casually read a book while a young child is flailing in the water before you? He’s even worse than those pricks, the Poston brothers. Sure, they’ve had a few people killed, but not children. That’s ****ing sick.”

While Boras’s actions have been deemed despicable by some, major league baseball players are flocking to him in record numbers. His aggressive, tough-nosed tactics have made his clients some of the most highly paid in the game.

“He refused to save a drowning child because his grandmother wouldn’t pay him 35 million?” asked Red Sox pitcher Derek Lowe, who is scheduled to be a free agent at the end of the year. “That’s sick. It’s cruel. It’s inhuman. He has absolutely no sense of decency or restraint. Anyone have his number?”

There was a real good article on Boras in this past ESPN Magazine....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3039348

It not only examined Scott Boras, but also graded/evaluated the contracts of many of the players he represents, and whether they have lived up to the Boras hype/sales pitch.

I know Zito hasn't.

There's no denying that the man is good at what he does. But listening to the guy talk is liking watching a farmer spread fertilizer. He's full of crap when he says "It's not about the money." The guy is not good for baseball IMO, and there are those teams that refuse to deal with him. But then, most can't. ;)



A good article on Boras....

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/040510/10eeagent.htm

OldRightHander
10-11-2007, 10:40 AM
Dumb thought.

Cuban buys the Cubs. Gives A-Rod equity in the team.

There was talk along those lines on XM the other day. It's quite illegal for a player to have ownership in a team, but it was suggested that the deal could be made "unofficially" and that the player could be told that upon retirement he would be given an ownership share. If that was put on paper, the team could get in trouble.

westofyou
10-11-2007, 11:13 AM
ARod will play SS for the Cubs next year.

Arod is done as a SS is my guess, he's bigger then he used to be and he's getting to the age that he'd be moved anyway.

Go get him Cubs... and you'll move him eventually.

Highlifeman21
10-11-2007, 11:43 AM
Arod is done as a SS is my guess, he's bigger then he used to be and he's getting to the age that he'd be moved anyway.

Go get him Cubs... and you'll move him eventually.

With the Cubs having Ramirez, I assumed (I know, I shouldn't do such things) they would target Rodriguez as a SS. He is much bigger than when he played SS for the Rangers, but for whatever reason I feel he could still play league average D as a SS.

I agree that wherever Rodriguez ends up for 2008, it won't be the last team of his career.

Roy Tucker
10-11-2007, 11:45 AM
Was it Drew Rosenhaus that saved a drowning boy for real?

puca
10-11-2007, 11:57 AM
Frankly I think the Yankees are done with ARod.

ARod has been a lightning rod for the Yankee's postseason failures. The same failures that have George on the verge of firing the popular Joe Torre. I just don't see George allowing a rather unpopular player like ARod to be brought back, especially considering what it would cost.

OldRightHander
10-11-2007, 12:34 PM
The same failures that have George on the verge of firing the popular Joe Torre.

If a Reds manager were to win four championships in a twelve year span, how secure would his job be? That organization sure operates under a different standard.

pahster
10-11-2007, 12:58 PM
A-Rod has had OPS+s of 133, 167, 140, and 183 as a Yankee. I can definitely see why the fans would want to dump the bum.

NJReds
10-11-2007, 01:41 PM
A-Rod has had OPS+s of 133, 167, 140, and 183 as a Yankee. I can definitely see why the fans would want to dump the bum.

Most of the fans I know want to keep him. The vocal fans that call talk shows and wait a 2 hours to say that 'he's not clutch' are by no means the majority.

But it's ARod's call. He can void the option. If he does, he'll most likely be somewhere else. The Yankees will extend his contract, but not void it. At least that's been their stance so far.

What George wants is a different story. He ran Winfield out of town under similar circumstances. But he had absolute power back then. Lately he's allowed his advisors to talk him out of rash decisions.

Chip R
10-11-2007, 01:47 PM
Most of the fans I know want to keep him. The vocal fans that call talk shows and wait a 2 hours to say that 'he's not clutch' are by no means the majority.

But it's ARod's call. He can void the option. If he does, he'll most likely be somewhere else. The Yankees will extend his contract, but not void it. At least that's been their stance so far.

What George wants is a different story. He ran Winfield out of town under similar circumstances. But he had absolute power back then. Lately he's allowed his advisors to talk him out of rash decisions.


It's going to be tough to replace his numbers.

Spitball
10-11-2007, 04:16 PM
...and it is a stab at their archrival.


Good point. It would be get even (only more so) for the Yankees signing Johnny Damon. After the Sox signed Mike Torrez away from the Yankees following the 1977 season, the Bombers signed beloved Sox hero Luis Tiant. That one really hurt even if Tiant was all washed up.

NJReds
10-11-2007, 04:56 PM
It's going to be tough to replace his numbers.

It's going to be tough to field a competitive team and meet his contract numbers. Even a $100M payroll is going to have to carve out 30% of their budget for one player.

RFS62
10-11-2007, 05:01 PM
The Red Sox should sign Torre and A Rod

Chip R
10-11-2007, 05:07 PM
It's going to be tough to field a competitive team and meet his contract numbers. Even a $100M payroll is going to have to carve out 30% of their budget for one player.


If anyone can do it it would be the Yankees. One could make the argument that without A-Rod they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

blumj
10-11-2007, 05:14 PM
If anyone can do it it would be the Yankees. One could make the argument that without A-Rod they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.
They wouldn't have. But they won't have to score 950+ runs next year if their pitching is good.

blumj
10-11-2007, 05:17 PM
The Red Sox should sign Torre and A Rod
You know what? I can't tell you how much I don't want either of them.

vaticanplum
10-12-2007, 12:14 AM
Frankly I think the Yankees are done with ARod.

ARod has been a lightning rod for the Yankee's postseason failures. The same failures that have George on the verge of firing the popular Joe Torre. I just don't see George allowing a rather unpopular player like ARod to be brought back, especially considering what it would cost.

Steinbrenner has already agreed to pay A-Rod through 2010 (2020 counting deferred salary). As others have noted, it isn't his call. If A-Rod wants to stay, it doesn't matter what Steinbrenner thinks.

He will stay with the Yankees. Something has to give on this team, but I don't think A-Rod will be it. He is finally coming into his own in New York and I firmly believe that he would view a move as a step backward at this point.

puca
10-12-2007, 12:28 AM
Steinbrenner has already agreed to pay A-Rod through 2010 (2020 counting deferred salary). As others have noted, it isn't his call. If A-Rod wants to stay, it doesn't matter what Steinbrenner thinks.

He will stay with the Yankees. Something has to give on this team, but I don't think A-Rod will be it. He is finally coming into his own in New York and I firmly believe that he would view a move as a step backward at this point.

I was going under the assumption that ARod goes ahead and opts out of his contract. If he does, I don't see the Yankees (or more correctly George) falling over themselves (himself) to resign ARod.

But your right, the ball is in ARod's court.

Chip R
10-12-2007, 01:54 AM
I was going under the assumption that ARod goes ahead and opts out of his contract. If he does, I don't see the Yankees (or more correctly George) falling over themselves (himself) to resign ARod.



I think that is how its going to work. If A-Rod doesn't choose to extend the deal, they Yankees will supposedly let him go. It's a bit of a gamble for A-Rod and Boros. He can either get the guaranteed money thru 2010 or he can play the field and maybe not get as much as he would if he stayed in NY.