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View Full Version : Can Chris Dickerson make the Reds?



Kc61
10-27-2007, 06:02 PM
He's having a big day today against the Chinese team in AFL play. Two homers, four hits.

I see him as a fifth outfielder on the Reds. Right now the team has no true centerfielder. Dickerson in the late innings could be a huge defensive plus. If he hits a little, who knows?

Dunn, Hamilton, Griffey, Hopper, Dickerson.

AmarilloRed
10-27-2007, 06:05 PM
If he can cut down on the strikeouts, hit a little more, and have a good spring training, he could be a good fourth outfielder over Norris Hopper. All of this is dependent on him doing very well in spring training.

dougdirt
10-27-2007, 06:06 PM
Yes, he can. I am with both of you on this one.

GoReds33
10-27-2007, 06:10 PM
If he can cut down on the strikeouts, hit a little more, and have a good spring training, he could be a good fourth outfielder over Norris Hopper. All of this is dependent on him doing very well in spring training.I don't know if he would be ahead of Hopper, but he defenitly diserves a shot. He is terrific defensivly, and he has pretty good power. I would like to see what he could do at GABP.:)

RedsManRick
10-27-2007, 07:39 PM
Not if Freel, Hopper, and Hamilton are all the roster. Talent wise, I see no reason why he can't be a 5th OF talent wise purely for his defense. Never gonna be a starter when he strikes out once every three at bats in AAA though.

Will M
10-27-2007, 08:34 PM
yes.

for 2008 I would like to see Dunn - Bruce - Hamilton as the starting outfield with Hopper and Dickerson off the bench.

Griffey needs to go in the offseason.
Freel goes in a spring training trade if he looks healthy.

Cooper
10-28-2007, 11:32 AM
His approach is terrible. I'm not sure he has an idea of what he wants to do. There are times when he looks like a pitcher hitting. Maybe it doesn't matter how it looks when a player is fooled. Missing by a foot and a half has the same results as missing by a quarter inch. When he's fooled --it's bad.

KronoRed
10-28-2007, 02:53 PM
I doubt it, Krivsky seems to prefer bench guys who have mileage on them

Topcat
10-28-2007, 11:51 PM
I doubt it, Krivsky seems to prefer bench guys who have mileage on them


I can't say I agree with that statement. I personally feel Dusty's going to have the say on who is on his bench. I also feel has a definite chance in Majors just not on the Reds and he needs a change of scenery in a deal that works to fill needs for Reds and the other team involved.

Highlifeman21
10-29-2007, 01:01 AM
He's having a big day today against the Chinese team in AFL play. Two homers, four hits.

I see him as a fifth outfielder on the Reds. Right now the team has no true centerfielder. Dickerson in the late innings could be a huge defensive plus. If he hits a little, who knows?

Dunn, Hamilton, Griffey, Hopper, Dickerson.

Chris Denorfia was way better than Chris Dickerson ever can hope to be, and they sent Denorfia packing to the A's. That being said, the Reds lack a True CF. I just don't see Dickerson being the Reds' True CF.

I still prefer Dickerson over Hopper, only b/c Dickerson plays a true position, whereas Hopper really has no position. I know OF is a position, but he doesn't play any of them well.

Call Dickerson the 4a OF of the Reds.

mlbfan30
10-29-2007, 01:05 AM
Dickerson is a guy like... Gary Matthews Jr. probably who is viewed as an above avg CF.
They both have the ability to take some BB, have a little power, and have an OPS in the .760 range.
Dickerson does SO a lot, but so does Brandon Inge who has been able to make a career being an above avg fielder with a career OPS below .700

dougdirt
10-29-2007, 07:38 AM
While I don't think Dickersons defense would offset his offense to replace a Josh Hamilton in CF as a starter, or even a Jay Bruce, I think in the right situation he could honestly start for some teams in CF who put a premium on defense and not so much on the offensive side of things. Lets not forget the league average CF puts up an OPS of about .750....

dfs
10-29-2007, 08:15 AM
He put up an 800 obs as a 25 year old in AAA. Dickerson doesn't obviously project to be a major league starter.

The major league manager of the franchise is known for his impatience with young players.
When Bruce was in Louisville he was in center as often as Dickerson was.
He's a lefty hitter in an organization filled with left handed talent.
He's too far down the depth chart to get a real shot at playing time.
He has the type of skills you can find by plying 6 year minor league free agent list.

The front office thought so much of Dickerson's skills that when Hamilton and Freel and Hopper and Wise were all down they traded for Jason Ellison instead of letting Dickerson play 10 games in the majors.

At this point, he's organizational filler. The best thing that could happen to him would be to be included as a throw in on a deal. He needs an organization that wants him, because the reds sure don't give signs of that.

dougdirt
10-29-2007, 09:14 AM
He put up an 800 obs as a 25 year old in AAA. Dickerson doesn't obviously project to be a major league starter.

The major league manager of the franchise is known for his impatience with young players.
When Bruce was in Louisville he was in center as often as Dickerson was.
He's a lefty hitter in an organization filled with left handed talent.
He's too far down the depth chart to get a real shot at playing time.
He has the type of skills you can find by plying 6 year minor league free agent list.

The front office thought so much of Dickerson's skills that when Hamilton and Freel and Hopper and Wise were all down they traded for Jason Ellison instead of letting Dickerson play 10 games in the majors.

At this point, he's organizational filler. The best thing that could happen to him would be to be included as a throw in on a deal. He needs an organization that wants him, because the reds sure don't give signs of that.

Above average defensive centerfielders who OPS .800 in AAA aren't exactly organizational filler IMO.

dfs
10-29-2007, 09:21 AM
Above average defensive centerfielders who OPS .800 in AAA aren't exactly organizational filler IMO.

...and 25 year olds who have not seen a single major league plate appearance don't become regulars.

I think we agree that he probably has the talent and the skill to be a useful part of a major league team.

If he could find a manager and an organization who wanted him to sit at the edge of the bench and be a defensive caddy who could run, bunt and pinch hit now and then...well, more power to him.

I see no evidence that this manager and this organization are willing to put him in that role.

dougdirt
10-29-2007, 09:23 AM
I don't think he has a chance to start for the Reds due to the current guys on the Reds, but I think he could start on some teams in baseball as a CFer and be a positive contributor.

And yes, 25 year olds with no major league experience can become regulars.

dfs
10-29-2007, 10:01 AM
I don't think he has a chance to start for the Reds due to the current guys on the Reds, but I think he could start on some teams in baseball as a CFer and be a positive contributor.
We're in absolute agreement here.


And yes, 25 year olds with no major league experience can become regulars.
And not so much here. Sure it's possible that somebody like Chris Sabo has the planets align and the organization hands him a clear shot at a starting job.

....Next year will be Chris Dickerson's age 26 season.I would be shocked if in the last 10 years there are more than 10 guys who had not seen a major league plate appearance by that season and went on to have two years of 500 plate appearances. Other than Sabo and he doesn't fi the last 10 years clause, I can't think of anybody off the top of my head.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk about it here. Guys like this don't get chances.

dougdirt
10-29-2007, 10:33 AM
I don't think you are being a jerk about it, I just think we are disagreeing on it.
Jack Cust had cups of coffee here and there, but never more than 75 ABs in a season until this year. At age 28 he had over 500 plate appearances. Termel Sledge at age 27 got his first playing time and got 450 plate appearances. Brady Clark comes to mind as well.

D-Man
10-29-2007, 11:22 AM
And not so much here. Sure it's possible that somebody like Chris Sabo has the planets align and the organization hands him a clear shot at a starting job.

....Next year will be Chris Dickerson's age 26 season.I would be shocked if in the last 10 years there are more than 10 guys who had not seen a major league plate appearance by that season and went on to have two years of 500 plate appearances. Other than Sabo and he doesn't fi the last 10 years clause, I can't think of anybody off the top of my head.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk about it here. Guys like this don't get chances.

Junior Spivey and Brady Clark are two off the top of my head.

Travis Hafner, Lyle Overbay, and Freel are pretty close--they *combined* for fewer than 100 PAs prior to their age 26 seasons.

So while you are technically correct, that very few players with zero ABs before 26 emerge, there are still quite a few excellent late bloomers. . .

Dickerson isn't likely to be one of them.

Kc61
10-29-2007, 11:33 AM
Baker has a history of defensive oriented center fielders. It will be hard for him to achieve that with the Reds since they have a glut of corner outfielders, some of whom, like Hammy, are ok at center. So it is likely his starting CFer next year will be good, but not great, at that position.

Unless Dusty changes this mix by shipping out outfielders and acquiring a CF, I can see him keeping Dickerson as a late inning replacement. At least that way Dusty will be able to pull Hamilton (or Dunn or even Griff) in the late innings, and insert the fly catching Dickerson.

Of course, these late inning changes will be fuel for hundreds of RedsZone posts next summer.

mth123
10-29-2007, 06:46 PM
On a team with Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey getting two of the starting spots, the Reds could do worse than to have a speedy plus defender as a back-up. The fact that he's a big guy with some power and knows how to take a walk helps as well.

If he's to make it though, the Reds would realistically need to trade one of the big 4 OF (Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Bruce) and one of the little two (Hopper, Freel).

Will M
10-29-2007, 10:59 PM
On a team with Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey getting two of the starting spots, the Reds could do worse than to have a speedy plus defender as a back-up. The fact that he's a big guy with some power and knows how to take a walk helps as well.

If he's to make it though, the Reds would realistically need to trade one of the big 4 OF (Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Bruce) and one of the little two (Hopper, Freel).

No problem. Trade Jr to one of the few teams he will go to and put Bruce in CF ( with Hamilton in RF ).
This upgrades the defense and sheds salary to spend on pitching
( Schilling, Wood, Japanese closer ).

If Freel is healthy in spring training he could be dealt.
Some team will suffer a late spring injury and a versatile healthy Freel will look good to them. That leaves Hopper and Dickerson as the 4th/5th outfielders.

AmarilloRed
10-30-2007, 02:17 AM
Jr. and Dunn are only guaranteed through 2008. Bruce will take one starting spot, but Dickerson could take the other in 2009 if he can have an outstanding year in AAA next year.

mth123
10-30-2007, 03:01 AM
No problem. Trade Jr to one of the few teams he will go to and put Bruce in CF ( with Hamilton in RF ).
This upgrades the defense and sheds salary to spend on pitching
( Schilling, Wood, Japanese closer ).

If Freel is healthy in spring training he could be dealt.
Some team will suffer a late spring injury and a versatile healthy Freel will look good to them. That leaves Hopper and Dickerson as the 4th/5th outfielders.

I'd like to see Griffey and Freel subtracted as well. But the Reds may need to keep them and trade some one like Hamilton if they really want to go after pitching of the caliber needed. Griffey might bring marginal prospects and salary relief. Freel may not even bring that much.

The time to deal Freel may have been last spring when teams were looking for lead-off types for CF and Hamilton was having a coming out party in Sarasota. Last off-season Juan Pierre was given unreal money, Gary Matthews was signed as a centerpiece player, Willy Tavaras was dealt and at least two teams (The Marlins and the Cubs) went into the season without finding anyone while settling for players they didn't necessarily want in the role. The market for guys like Freel seemed like it was pretty hot. Maybe with so many starting CF being free agents (Jones, Hunter, Rowand, Cameron, Patterson) some team will be left with a hole and be willing to give Freel a try. Expectations for a decent pen arm should be dropped though. At this point the Reds would be lucky to get some one to take his contract for a PTBNL. Maybe they should just keep him, hope for a comeback to 2005 or 2006 levels of some sort and use the roster flexability he provides to allow the team to trade a more valuable guy that can actually bring back a pitcher who is better than the pack of question marks on hand.

camisadelgolf
10-30-2007, 05:09 AM
dfs mentioned one of the more important facts about Dickerson--he hits left-handed. With Dunn, Hamilton, and Griffey on the team, right now, he probably wouldn't help the team as much as Norris Hopper, Ryan Freel, Jeff Keppinger, etc.

I wish him the best, but I wouldn't have a problem with him spending most of '08 in AAA, getting called up when there's an injury.

Kc61
10-30-2007, 11:56 AM
dfs mentioned one of the more important facts about Dickerson--he hits left-handed. With Dunn, Hamilton, and Griffey on the team, right now, he probably wouldn't help the team as much as Norris Hopper, Ryan Freel, Jeff Keppinger, etc.

I wish him the best, but I wouldn't have a problem with him spending most of '08 in AAA, getting called up when there's an injury.


The Reds starting team is overly lefthanded; I'd like that to change. But the bench needs a combo of both lefties and righties. You can't have an all right handed bench; you need lefties to pinch hit against right handed relievers in the late innings.

Will M
10-30-2007, 12:36 PM
The Reds starting team is overly lefthanded; I'd like that to change. But the bench needs a combo of both lefties and righties. You can't have an all right handed bench; you need lefties to pinch hit against right handed relievers in the late innings.

:thumbup:

I'd like a bench for 2008 of Hat (L), Cantu, Kep, Hopper, Dickerson (L) & Ross ( with the Reds letting Javy go and getting a catcher better than Ross to be the starter ).

bucksfan2
10-30-2007, 02:05 PM
Guys like Dickerson are nice to have if you continue to move them through you system. People with Dickerson's skill set should be able to replace the Ryan Freels of the world without handing out contract extentions. 4th and 5th outfielders are really dime a dozen type players. I think Dickerson's speed is really the only aspect that sets him apart for your 5th outfielder and may get him a bench position on a ML team.

dougdirt
10-30-2007, 02:23 PM
Guys like Dickerson are nice to have if you continue to move them through you system. People with Dickerson's skill set should be able to replace the Ryan Freels of the world without handing out contract extentions. 4th and 5th outfielders are really dime a dozen type players. I think Dickerson's speed is really the only aspect that sets him apart for your 5th outfielder and may get him a bench position on a ML team.

I think his defense sets him apart from most as well. While most back up outfielders are good fielders, Dickerson is at a very high level in CF, and that is very valuable.

Degenerate39
10-30-2007, 08:07 PM
I'd take Dickerson over Ellison or Coats.

AmarilloRed
10-30-2007, 10:55 PM
He can make the Reds in spring training as a reserve outfielder. Freel will probably be moved, and there are some doubts about whether Hopper can duplicate his 2007 success. Dickerson plays outstanding defense, but he will need to make better contact and cut down on the strikeouts to make the Reds out of spring training.

mth123
11-03-2007, 04:30 PM
Dickerson in AFL so far.

59 ABs, 4 BB's, 4 HR, .288/.344/.593/.937. He's not hurting himself anyway.

reds44
11-07-2007, 10:13 PM
I'd take Dickerson over Ellison or Coats.
True, but I don't think he is competing against them.

Now, this can change between now and opening day, but Dickerson's biggest problem right now is that he is left handed.

Dunn (L)
Griffey (L)
Hamilton (L)
Hopper (R)

Then you also have Bruce in AAA who is a lefty. When you consider the face that Freel is coming back, as much as I'd like to see us part ways he just got a new contract, he is another guy who can probably play the OF.

I just don't think there is room for him right now. Now if Dunn, Griffey, or Hamilton were to be traded and Bruce isn't ready come April, I think that is when a door would open for Dickerson to get a shot.

The fact that they didn't expose him to waivers like they did Pedro Lopez and sent him to Winter Ball shows you the think he has upside.

For the record, I'd love for Chris to get a shot.

RedlegJake
11-08-2007, 11:30 AM
I put Dickerson in the frustrating as heck type of player. He has that pure athlete look that maybe makes you expect so much more. I don't know that he'll ever be a hitter though. He can really look horrible sometimes. I care squat for the KOs, but he needs to get his OBP up a ways. I had hope he'd develop power but it looks like he's a 10-15 a year guy at best. He is a true centerfielder, though, could be the fifth outfielder. If he continues to improve at the plate he could become a starter. Give him a half year at Louisville with anything like his AFL numbers and he could either pull you a couple pitching prospects ala Denorfia, or step into a spot role on the Reds.

dougdirt
11-08-2007, 11:34 AM
I put Dickerson in the frustrating as heck type of player. He has that pure athlete look that maybe makes you expect so much more. I don't know that he'll ever be a hitter though. He can really look horrible sometimes. I care squat for the KOs, but he needs to get his OBP up a ways. I had hope he'd develop power but it looks like he's a 10-15 a year guy at best. He is a true centerfielder, though, could be the fifth outfielder. If he continues to improve at the plate he could become a starter. Give him a half year at Louisville with anything like his AFL numbers and he could either pull you a couple pitching prospects ala Denorfia, or step into a spot role on the Reds.
He has a career milb .355 OBP with a career .100 isolated discipline. That is a solid OBP and an above average isolate discipline number....

lollipopcurve
11-08-2007, 12:19 PM
One of my reservations about Dickerson is that he has never really flashed great performance -- by that I mean a 2-4 week stretch where he's dominating at the plate. One of those stretches that says he's better than the league he's in. Maybe it will all come together for him this year in AAA and he'll go 30HR or .400 OBP -- let's hope so.

So far, I see a guy whose tools haven't coalesced. He's 25, and he played college baseball, so it's getting late. You have to like his potential as a speed and defense extra outfielder, but I'd like to see him improve as a hitter in AAA in 08 first. Even extra OFs are going to get 150 or so ABs.

dougdirt
11-08-2007, 12:30 PM
One of my reservations about Dickerson is that he has never really flashed great performance -- by that I mean a 2-4 week stretch where he's dominating at the plate. One of those stretches that says he's better than the league he's in. Maybe it will all come together for him this year in AAA and he'll go 30HR or .400 OBP -- let's hope so.

So far, I see a guy whose tools haven't coalesced. He's 25, and he played college baseball, so it's getting late. You have to like his potential as a speed and defense extra outfielder, but I'd like to see him improve as a hitter in AAA in 08 first. Even extra OFs are going to get 150 or so ABs.

The second half of the season last year he posted something like a .912 OPS in AA. For a great centerfielder, thats pretty dominating at the plate.

AmarilloRed
11-09-2007, 11:18 PM
Notes: Dickerson the full package
Prospect looking to find a place in crowded outfield
By MarK Sheldon / MLB.com

CINCINNATI -- Chris Dickerson isn't usually the first name name you'll hear regarding the Reds' outfield mix, but the prospect is another indication of the organization's increasingly robust depth in that area.

Dickerson, 24, is getting an opportunity to showcase his talents in this year's Arizona Fall League. Playing for Surprise, he's batting .261 (18-for-69) with four home runs and 14 RBIs in 20 games.

After the 2006 season spent at Double-A Chattanooga, Dickerson had surgery to repair an injury in his right (non-throwing) shoulder. This season, he batted a combined .263 with 14 homers and 55 RBIs in 134 games combined at Chattanooga and Triple-A Louisville.

"He came back this year strong and played well in Louisville," Reds player development director Terry Reynolds said. "It carried into the Fall League. The people in Arizona have been pleased with him."

A 16th-round pick in the 2003 First-Year Player Draft, Dickerson is prone to striking out -- he had 162 this season compared to 59 walks. But he's one of the organization's fastest players, with 30 steals this past season.

Dickerson, who is on the Reds' 40-man roster, is expected to be in Spring Training. He can expect to find the odds of making the team challenging. Cincinnati already has outfielders Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, Josh Hamilton, Norris Hopper and Ryan Freel on the big league roster. The organization's top position prospect, Jay Bruce, is also an outfielder.

"This is a complete player of strength and speed," Reynolds said of Dickerson. "Whether he puts it together in the big leagues remains to be seen, but the package of tools is a good one."

I wish him all the best. He will be in spring training, and will get a chance to make the 25 man roster. The Reds crowded outfield might make getting a spot difficult however.

WebScorpion
11-14-2007, 02:01 PM
Not that it has anything to do with his current performance, but wasn't he the guy who took over first base at McNeese State when Ben Broussard left?

RedsManRick
11-14-2007, 02:22 PM
Not that it has anything to do with his current performance, but wasn't he the guy who took over first base at McNeese State when Ben Broussard left?

Dickerson went to Nevada.

WebScorpion
11-15-2007, 02:35 PM
Dickerson went to Nevada.

You're right, it was Chris WILLIAMS. Sorry, my mistake...carry on. :cool:

Will M
06-04-2008, 04:36 PM
it looks like he is a non prospect unless he turns it on real quick.
26 years old and OPSing .718 at AAA

the Reds need an outfielder and are forced to bring patterson back because they have more faith in him than dickerson. ouch.

Kingspoint
06-04-2008, 05:50 PM
He's "only" 26 years old and had a .361 OBP during a full season at AAA last year. He's lit it up the last week with an OPS of 1.400+. His OPS last year was a respectable .800 at AAA.

Baker's Manlove for Patterson is stunting Dickerson's growth.

dfs
06-07-2008, 10:40 AM
Baker's Manlove for Patterson is stunting Dickerson's growth.

The organization pretty much gave up on Dickerson last off season when they brought in Bubba Crosby. Since then the reds have given brief major league appearances to several guys (Hopper/Ellison/Coats) while Dickerson has sat at AAA pretty much doing the same thing.

That's two managers and a GM back. I don't see how you can blame Baker. As it stands I suspect they would call up Cabrera or even Anderson before Dickerson.

corkedbat
06-07-2008, 12:01 PM
As long as Corey Patterson is wasting a space on the 25-man , there is a place for Dickerson to take. I think he can give them much the same defense and Patterson has certainly set the offensive bar low enough. I guess CP's experience counts for something, but not the $2.5M difference worth of something.

CD may never be an offensive force, but he may have some ceiling too, which CP has already reached. I'd have no problem with him as a 5th OF/defensive replacement.

Patterson's signing was the worst move WK made (I know it's debatable who actually had the final call on the idioscy though).

Hoosier Red
06-07-2008, 12:10 PM
The sunk cost works against Dickerson in this case. If Patterson is even marginally better, then you play him and keep Dickerson down.

Whether he's worth the $3 million doesn't matter. He's going to get it regardless.

Now whether he's better or not is debateable.

mth123
06-07-2008, 12:36 PM
Not sure on this. I wouldn't mind Dickerson in place of Patterson, but IMO Dickerson pretty much would be extatic if he could become what Corey Patterson already is. In 2003, 2004 and 2006 Patterson put up seasons at the MLB level that probably would be considered superior statistically than anything that Dickerson has done even in the minors.

Its up for debate whether Patterson can reach those modest levels again, but doesn't having already accomplished that in the Major Leagues give him a leg up on Dickerson as far as chances to succeed go? Its not like Patterson is old or injured. There is more reason IMO to think he could replicate those numbers than there is for Dickerson.

IMO, the primary problem with Patterson is Dusty's continued insistence to bat him first and force him into a role that he can't fill. Let him play defense with some moderate power and generally low bottom of the order expectations at the plate and stop trying to turn him into Ricky Henderson. He's basically a LH Alex Gonzalez with the ability to steal bases. He's a 4th or 5th OF on a team with a good OF. I can certainly see the arguments to start him in CF between Dunn and Bruce in Cincy.