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MWM
10-27-2007, 09:42 PM
I've been telling my friends for a couple of weeks now that other than Michigan, this game really scared me. For some reason PSU's offense always seems to play better against Ohio State than they normally do. And better than most other teams do. I don't know why, but they seem to.

WMR
10-27-2007, 09:43 PM
Are you a buckeye fan, MWM? I thought you were a Michigan man?

MWM
10-27-2007, 09:45 PM
Buckeye fan first. Born and raised. But the University of Michigan has A LOT of my money. And, uh, my grad school diploma has the block M on it. :evil:

WMR
10-27-2007, 09:49 PM
Buckeye fan first. Born and raised. But the University of Michigan has A LOT of my money. And, uh, my grad school diploma has the block M on it. :evil:

Gotcha!! :laugh:

Got a buddy who went to grad school at Louisville... still manages to hate the school's athletics, though. :lol:

OnBaseMachine
10-27-2007, 09:55 PM
Penn State is decent, not great. I don't see them beating OSU. The only Big-10 team with a chance to beat OSU is Michigan, IMO.

MWM
10-27-2007, 09:56 PM
Gotcha!! :laugh:

Got a buddy who went to grad school at Louisville... still manages to hate the school's athletics, though. :lol:

There's no way I could hate Michigan any more. I absolutely loved my two years in Ann Arbor. It's a wonderful place and a fantastic place to go to school as well. It's hard to harbor ill will when I have such a fondness for the University. Afterall, these are institutions of higher learning first and foremost. But I will say this: it has taken some of the joy out of being a Buckeye fan.

But I've been watching and following the Buckeyes since the 1984 season. Their Rose Bowl loss that year to USC was my first real sports heartbreak. I was too young to to be heartbroken by the 1982 Super Bowl.

WMR
10-27-2007, 09:58 PM
There's no way I could hate Michigan any more. I absolutely loved my two years in Ann Arbor. It's a wonderful place and a fantastic place to go to school as well. It's hard to harbor ill will when I have such a fondness for the University. Afterall, these are institutions of higher learning first and foremost. But I will say this: it has taken some of the joy out of being a Buckeye fan.

But I've been watching and following the Buckeyes since the 1984 season. Their Rose Bowl loss that year to USC was my first real sports heartbreak. I was too young to to be heartbroken by the 1982 Super Bowl.

That makes perfect sense.

It probably is easier to maintain hatred for Louisville athletics if you're a UK fan since you're still surrounded by bunches of UK fans and there's no real geographic separation.

GAC
10-27-2007, 10:15 PM
Buckeye fan first. Born and raised. But the University of Michigan has A LOT of my money. And, uh, my grad school diploma has the block M on it. :evil:

PhotoShop can take care of that. :lol:

That first PSU TD seems to have woke this Buck defense up.

GAC
10-27-2007, 10:18 PM
I like this Hartline kid. ;)

WMR
10-27-2007, 10:19 PM
Hey OBM: What are your thoughts about USC and the way they played today?

WMR
10-27-2007, 10:21 PM
Man that #40 is a hell of a linebacker. He looked more like a safety making that interception.

MWM
10-27-2007, 10:21 PM
Rare mental mistake there by Boekman. He threw that into triple coverage.

Hate to give them momentum back when the Buckeyes had pretty much shut the crowd up completely.

CrackerJack
10-27-2007, 10:22 PM
Wow what was Boeckman thinking there?

WMR
10-27-2007, 10:25 PM
I would've gone for it there on 4th and 2 on the OSU side of the field.

GAC
10-27-2007, 10:29 PM
That was neat watching that old college footage of Paterno as a player.

WMR
10-27-2007, 10:34 PM
That was neat watching that old college footage of Paterno as a player.

He could move pretty well!

That's funny they talked about him hitch-hiking when he first became an assistant coach...

My grandfather is 87 years old and he has told me the story many times about how he hitchhiked from Kentucky up to NYC for the 1939 World's Fair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_New_York_World%27s_Fair). He told me about seeing a television for the first time... they were broadcasting the signal like fifty feet or something and people were absolutely floored!

Amazing how the world has changed!

OnBaseMachine
10-27-2007, 10:38 PM
Hey OBM: What are your thoughts about USC and the way they played today?

I expected this. If you go back and read my posts from a few weeks ago I said that Oregon would probably destroy us. Their offense is explosive and running QB's always kill us. Oregon is the best team I have watched this season. They have been decimated by injures on offense (starting WR's Cameron Colvin and Brian Paysinger are out for seasonl along with stud RB Jeremiah Johnson) and yet they continue to score points. As for SC, the offense just isn't clicking. We still have injuries to key O-lineman and our WR's are young and drop a lot of passes, but the main problem has been the playcalling. What I wouldn't give to have Norm Chow back...IMO he'll be back in the Pac-10 next season...as UCLA's coach.

GAC
10-27-2007, 10:40 PM
Well - game 3 of the WS is over (as well as the series). So I can stay off that thread and concentrate on this one. This year's WS just didn't hold my interest or get me excited.

RedFanAlways1966
10-27-2007, 10:44 PM
Well - game 3 of the WS is over (as well as the series). So I can stay off that thread and concentrate on this one. This year's WS just didn't hold my interest or get me excited.

You mean there is a baseball game on TV tonight? ;)

Happy with the 1st half. Especially after PSU's 1st drive. Still bothered by the "what if" from the bad pass from Boeckman. But up 10 points at half is good. Just hope the 1st drive of half #2 is not the same as the 1st drive of half #1 for PSU. Cannot let the crowd back in it.

remdog
10-27-2007, 11:03 PM
Putzberger just needs to learn to 'Shut the ______ Up!'

Rem

WMR
10-27-2007, 11:04 PM
Putzberger just needs to learn to 'Shut the ______ Up!'

Rem

Pair him with McCarver!! :lol:

GAC
10-27-2007, 11:05 PM
If OSU puts point on the board in this drive I'd say that is it for PSU. PSU's offense has been non-existent since that 1st TD.

And expect to see more of the Well's brothers in this 2nd half.

I got a buddy at this game. He also ushers at all the OSU home games.

RedFanAlways1966
10-27-2007, 11:09 PM
Looked like a TD to me for Robiske. Of course I am biased... :)

GAC
10-27-2007, 11:09 PM
What a catch by Robiskie! A perfectly thrown pass!

Refs gonna review it. Is it a TD?

WMR
10-27-2007, 11:11 PM
Oh wow... overturned!

WMR
10-27-2007, 11:11 PM
I think that was a catch. I don't think there was nearly enough video evidence to overturn the call on the field.

RedFanAlways1966
10-27-2007, 11:12 PM
Oh wow... overturned!

Didn't look like overwhelming evidence to me (but I am an OSU fan!). Homer call?!? Oh well!

GAC
10-27-2007, 11:13 PM
Probably a good call by the review officials.

But it just delays the inevitable. ;)

cincy jacket
10-27-2007, 11:13 PM
I think that was a catch. I don't think there was nearly enough video evidence to overturn the call on the field.

Watching it live I didn't think it was a catch, but like you say I saw no video evidence to overturn a ruling of a catch.

WMR
10-27-2007, 11:13 PM
Didn't look like overwhelming evidence to me (but I am an OSU fan!). Homer call?!? Oh well!

I didn't see anything on any of the replays that could be called "conclusive evidence" contrary to the call that was made on the field... dunno... maybe some home cookin'.

RedFanAlways1966
10-27-2007, 11:16 PM
Turn out the lights. :thumbup:

HumnHilghtFreel
10-27-2007, 11:17 PM
Watching it live I didn't think it was a catch, but like you say I saw no video evidence to overturn a ruling of a catch.

And in the end, we get the points back on the board anyway with a little less clock for them to work with.

MWM
10-27-2007, 11:32 PM
Chris Wells is freaking good and is only going to get better.

BTW, I refus to call him "beanie." Where did that come from anyway?

Reds Fanatic
10-27-2007, 11:37 PM
Chris Wells is freaking good and is only going to get better.

BTW, I refus to call him "beanie." Where did that come from anyway?It is a nickname his brother gave him when they were kids.

GAC
10-27-2007, 11:42 PM
Chris Wells is freaking good and is only going to get better.

BTW, I refus to call him "beanie." Where did that come from anyway?

According to Chris...."I got the nickname because when I was a baby, I came out and my big brother said I had a bean head."

http://www.chrisbeaniewells.com/Chris%20Wells%20Interviews.htm

GAC
10-27-2007, 11:45 PM
Tennessee choked away a 21-0 lead vs the Gamecocks.

MWM
10-27-2007, 11:45 PM
FWIW, my nickname as a baby was also beanie, or string bean. They were used interchangeably. Apparently, it had something to with how I looked. But they stopped calling me that when I was about 3 years old.

GAC
10-27-2007, 11:45 PM
INT by OSU makes it 34-10

CrackerJack
10-27-2007, 11:47 PM
OSU is very, very good.

GAC
10-27-2007, 11:48 PM
FWIW, my nickname as a baby was also beanie, or string bean. They were used interchangeably. Apparently, it had something to with how I looked. But they stopped calling me that when I was about 3 years old.

Mine was Sparky (there use to be a Sparky the Fire Dog), and my Mom still calls me that.

MWM
10-27-2007, 11:50 PM
OSU is very, very good.

I agree. But I still the masses will toot the "they haven't played anybody" horn. They've pretty much dominated everyone thay've played. And say what you want about Penn State, but it's not easy going into Happy Valley and winning, let alone pretty much having your way with them. This was a dominating performance. And while PSU isn't a great team because of their offense, their defense is really good, and the Buckeye offense ran all over them.

GAC
10-27-2007, 11:53 PM
I agree. But I still the masses will toot the "they haven't played anybody" horn. They've pretty much dominated everyone thay've played. And say what you want about Penn State, but it's not easy going into Happy Valley and winning, let alone pretty much having your way with them. This was a dominating performance. And while PSU isn't a great team because of their offense, their defense is really good, and the Buckeye offense ran all over them.

OSU gets all the right calls from the refs. :p:

GAC
10-28-2007, 12:03 AM
Next up for OSU.... the 7-2 Badgers come to Columbus.

paintmered
10-28-2007, 12:17 AM
I agree. But I still the masses will toot the "they haven't played anybody" horn. They've pretty much dominated everyone thay've played. And say what you want about Penn State, but it's not easy going into Happy Valley and winning, let alone pretty much having your way with them. This was a dominating performance. And while PSU isn't a great team because of their offense, their defense is really good, and the Buckeye offense ran all over them.

I'd characterize OSU as deceptively good. They aren't flashy, but the similarities to the 2002 team are there. Also, they benefit from a down year in the Big 11. With all sorts of 1- and 2-loss teams out there, if they win out, it's BCS Championship time for the College of Columbus again.

D-Man
10-28-2007, 12:43 AM
I agree. But I still the masses will toot the "they haven't played anybody" horn. They've pretty much dominated everyone thay've played. And say what you want about Penn State, but it's not easy going into Happy Valley and winning, let alone pretty much having your way with them. This was a dominating performance. And while PSU isn't a great team because of their offense, their defense is really good, and the Buckeye offense ran all over them.

Much like last year, the defense isn't 7 ppg/against good. . . On several occasions this year, they have managed to escape dangerous scoring threats by coming up with a good play at a clutch moment. Happened twice tonight. I imagine that those key plays won't come as easily against a good offense. It's a bend-not-break unit, one that will be exposed sooner or later.

On offense, this team is much better than the 2002 squad. Boeckman still makes a few silly mistakes, but he has nice poise and generally gets the ball to the right guy. He has solid targets all over the field. Beanie Wells is great, although he looks injured every time he gets tackled. Maurice Wells is garbage, I like Saine much better as the second back.

The good news is that this is the type of club that Tressel likes to coach. He loves to run the ball, kick field goals, and win close games. He never quite "got it" the past few years when his offense was loaded with weapons. This team strikes me as a better match between his coaching preferences and the guys he deploys.

Hypothetical question: if OSU loses a game, could they still play for the title? Given the wackiness of 2007, I imagine that they could. Among the one-loss teams, I would say that only LSU and Oregon would have better claims on the title game at this point, and neither of those teams have cakewalks from here on out.

Chip R
10-28-2007, 12:59 AM
Hypothetical question: if OSU loses a game, could they still play for the title?

I'd say that'd be tough. If they lose, they will drop quite a bit in the polls - maybe not out of the top 10 but probably out of the top 5 - because of their weak schedule. The pollsters are just waiting to knock them down because of that. Now if they lose to a Wisconsin and beat Michigan, they may have a shot but even if their only loss is to Michigan, they are going to drop and they are going to have to hope the other teams ahead of them will get knocked off in the conference championship games. Fair or not they aren't going to be able to make up that Michigan loss with more wins.

OnBaseMachine
10-28-2007, 01:05 AM
OT but is anyone watching the ASU-Cal game?!? I don't have a dog in this fight but it's very clear that ASU is getting robbed. This has got to be the wiorst refereed game in the history of college football. ASU's QB was facemasked which caused him to fumble and Cal picked it up for a TD. No flag was throw though it was a blatant facefask. Then Desean Jackson catches a questionable TD and the call goes in favor of Cal. Now Jackson fumbles a punt at his own 10 and it's ruled a fumble. ASU ball at the Cal 10. They then review it and give the ball to Cal, despite it clearly being a fumble. Now an ASU loss helps USC, but I hate to see referees affect the outcomes of games and they are clearly doing that. They have cost ASU dearly in the first half.

MWM
10-28-2007, 01:07 AM
It would be possible, but only if two of LSU, Oregon, and Oklahoma lose another game. There's no way they'd ever jump one of those teams if they all win out. I'm totally fine with that for LSU and Oregon. But I think OSU is much better than Oklahoma.

MWM
10-28-2007, 01:08 AM
it's very clear that ASU is getting robbed. This has got to be the wiorst refereed game in the history of college football.

No offense, OBM, but you pretty much say this every week about some game.

OnBaseMachine
10-28-2007, 01:11 AM
No offense, OBM, but you pretty much say this every week about some game.

Because it's mostly true. Refs continue to get worse each year. But tonight is very different. You have to be watching this game to understand just how bad these guys are. I mean these are easy calls to make. I'd be ticked if I were an ASU fan right now.

MWM
10-28-2007, 01:18 AM
Well, so far, Cal has been penalized 18 times for 148 yards, while ASU 10 times for 90 yards.

MWM
10-28-2007, 01:20 AM
Can you imagine if Boston College and Kansas are the only two undefeated teams and play for the National Championship? Short of OSU getting there, this is what I'm rooting for.

D-Man
10-28-2007, 01:27 AM
I'd say that'd be tough. If they lose, they will drop quite a bit in the polls - maybe not out of the top 10 but probably out of the top 5 - because of their weak schedule. The pollsters are just waiting to knock them down because of that. Now if they lose to a Wisconsin and beat Michigan, they may have a shot but even if their only loss is to Michigan, they are going to drop and they are going to have to hope the other teams ahead of them will get knocked off in the conference championship games. Fair or not they aren't going to be able to make up that Michigan loss with more wins.

I should just clarify that my hypothetical is based on the assumption that not everyone else wins out. This year has proven that there is a lot of parity in college football.

I can't see OSU falling out of the top five unless they had a humiliating loss. After this week, there will probably be two or more teams in the Top 10 with two losses. I don't see the Buckeyes falling below any 2-loss team, and I certainly see them ahead of a few 1-loss teams (at least).

Here are the other contenders:

BC could win out, but they have fewer quality wins than OSU. I can't see them making it to the title unless then finish the season undefeated.

ASU is losing tonight--no way they finish undefeated. I suppose they could get in as a 1-loss team, but they have the meat of their Pac-10 schedule coming up. They would have to look more convincing than they did in tonight's first half (91 yards of offense vs. 271 yards for Cal).

Oklahoma has had an even flimsier schedule than OSU, and OU's loss at Colorado looks much worse than a loss at UM or at home against Wisconsin.

Kansas is a good team and proved it tonight. They still have to play Missouri. They will likely play OU in the Big 12 Title game, so that eliminates one of these teams.

LSU and Oregon would both be ahead of OSU, but they both have at least modestly difficult schedules from here on out. The SEC is brutal, just look at today's bloodbaths.

OnBaseMachine
10-28-2007, 01:47 AM
Well, so far, Cal has been penalized 18 times for 148 yards, while ASU 10 times for 90 yards.

18 penalties?!? in the first half. I'm not so sure that is correct. That would be a record.

MWM
10-28-2007, 01:49 AM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/teamstats/NCAAF_20071027_CA@AZST

OnBaseMachine
10-28-2007, 01:57 AM
That's an error. There's no way there has been 18 penalties in this game...for either team.

WMR
10-28-2007, 02:06 AM
No offense, OBM, but you pretty much say this every week about some game.

OBM is a ref/ump basher!! :lol: ;)

(that is not a bad thing, IMO! They deserve it.)

OnBaseMachine
10-28-2007, 03:02 AM
OBM is a ref/ump basher!! :lol: ;)

(that is not a bad thing, IMO! They deserve it.)

:D

I actually like MLB umps though sometimes I get frustrated with wide strikezones. I can give them a break because unlike football refs, they have no instant replay. There's no excuse for refs to miss obvious calls like they did tonight.

Anyhoo, ASU continues to be a second half team. They outscored Cal 17-0 in the second half to improve to 8-0 on the season. Next weekend's matchup at #5 Oregon should be a great game.

Dennis Erickson is a heckuva coach.

WMR
10-28-2007, 03:16 AM
I always like when you make one of your Questec rants! That would be maybe the biggest single improvement MLB could make to the game.

GAC
10-28-2007, 07:56 AM
Much like last year, the defense isn't 7 ppg/against good. . . On several occasions this year, they have managed to escape dangerous scoring threats by coming up with a good play at a clutch moment.

But that is what good defense's do though.


I imagine that those key plays won't come as easily against a good offense. It's a bend-not-break unit, one that will be exposed sooner or later.

I would have believed that if it were last year. And I even stated that then. But I think that this year's defensive squad is better. They have played the Big Ten's top overall offense's in Purdue and MSU, and shut them down.


The good news is that this is the type of club that Tressel likes to coach. He loves to run the ball, kick field goals, and win close games. He never quite "got it" the past few years when his offense was loaded with weapons. This team strikes me as a better match between his coaching preferences and the guys he deploys.

I think the term "Tressellball" got a little overplayed IMO. He was pretty aggressive last year, and has been so this year too. They have had a very balanced attack IMO.

I am impressed with Boeckman, and I had questions going into this season. Especially after losing guys like Ginn, Gamble, and Gonzalez. But kids like Robiskie, Hartline, and Small have stepped up big time IMO.


Hypothetical question: if OSU loses a game, could they still play for the title? Given the wackiness of 2007, I imagine that they could. Among the one-loss teams, I would say that only LSU and Oregon would have better claims on the title game at this point, and neither of those teams have cakewalks from here on out.

No way does OSU get in. Late season losses are killers. And the so-called experts have been rooting and hoping for an OSU loss for the last few weeks. They are looking for an excuse. I think they are upset because they got burned last year for riding that OSU bandwagon going into the NC game vs Florida. :lol:

Hypothetically - if OSU and BC get into the NC game, then here is a "head to head" matchup.....


OSU DEFENSE BC OFFENSE

Points/Game 8.9 (1) 32.0 (62)
Rush Yards/Game 70.9 (6) 130.5 (175)
Pass Yards/Game 143.7 (5) 307.6 (15)
Total Yards/Game 214.6 (1) 438.1 (38)
Third Down Pct. 29.7% (20) 42.5% (71)
Fourth Down Pct. 62.5% (200) 55.6% (214)
Sacks 27 (12) 13 (63)
Sack Yards -169 (27) -72 (41)
Rushing TDs 2 (2) 12 (131)
Passing TDs 3 (1) 19 (28)
Carries/Game 265 (20) 260 (213)
Yards/Carry 2.4 (8) 4.0 (127)
Completion Pct. 53.4% (138) 60.7% (73)
Yards/Pass Attempt 4.5 (1) 6.8 (122)
Pass Rating 87.4 (2) 130.9 (83)
AVG NCAA Ranking 20.2 66.2


OSU OFFENSE BC OFFENSE

Points/Game 34.6 (45) 32.0 (62)
Rush Yards/Game 198.7 (52) 130.5 (175)
Pass Yards/Game 220.6 (109) 307.6 (15)
Total Yards/Game 419.2 (61) 438.1 (38)
Third Down Pct. 49.6% (17) 42.5% (71)
Fourth Down Pct. 55.6% (83) 55.6% (82)
Sacks 10 (38) 13 (63)
Sack Yards -75 (69) -72 (41)
Rushing TDs 12 (135) 12 (131)
Passing TDs 22 (15) 19 (28)
Carries/Game 392 (22) 260 (213)
Yards/Carry 4.6 (61) 4.0 (127)
Completion Pct. 66.3% (98) 60.7% (73)
Yards/Pass Attempt 8.3 (29) 6.8 (122)
Pass Rating 159.3 (16) 130.9 (83)
Avg. NCAA Ranking 38.6 60.2



Obviously, Tressell's game plan would be ball control and clock management in order to keep BC QB Ryan off the field. And that would call for running the ball. The problem is that BC is #1 in the nation in stopping the run (55.1 RYPG).

But on the other hand - BC relies heavily on their passing game, and is average in running the ball.

Could be an interesting matchup. I think it would be a high scoring affair IMO, and possibly a quite thrilling NC game.

traderumor
10-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Much like last year, the defense isn't 7 ppg/against good. . . On several occasions this year, they have managed to escape dangerous scoring threats by coming up with a good play at a clutch moment. Happened twice tonight. I imagine that those key plays won't come as easily against a good offense. It's a bend-not-break unit, one that will be exposed sooner or later.

On offense, this team is much better than the 2002 squad. Boeckman still makes a few silly mistakes, but he has nice poise and generally gets the ball to the right guy. He has solid targets all over the field. Beanie Wells is great, although he looks injured every time he gets tackled. Maurice Wells is garbage, I like Saine much better as the second back.

The good news is that this is the type of club that Tressel likes to coach. He loves to run the ball, kick field goals, and win close games. He never quite "got it" the past few years when his offense was loaded with weapons. This team strikes me as a better match between his coaching preferences and the guys he deploys.

Hypothetical question: if OSU loses a game, could they still play for the title? Given the wackiness of 2007, I imagine that they could. Among the one-loss teams, I would say that only LSU and Oregon would have better claims on the title game at this point, and neither of those teams have cakewalks from here on out.

Seriously, this analysis doesn't appear that you have followed the 2007 Buckeyes at all. Tressel's MO is getting shredded this year by opponents. They throw deep frequently, throw from passing formations, mix up formations, throw on passing downs, run on passing downs. Last night was a delight to watch play calling because I could not call the play before the snap by watching formation, down and distance. That is a new twist for Tressel.

As for the D, I think GAC handled that one.

Unassisted
10-28-2007, 08:34 PM
Here's some trivia to put a ribbon on yesterday's win:

http://www.wane.com/Global/story.asp?S=7277239

NUMBERS:@ Ohio State won its 19th consecutive Big Ten game on Saturday, tying the conference record while adding to the school mark. Michigan won 19 league games in a row from 1990-92. The Buckeyes have also won a school-record 27 straight regular-season games dating back to a loss at Penn State in 2005. The previous Ohio State mark for regular-season wins in a row was 21, set from 1967-69.

PAST ... @ Here's one more shot across the bow of Ohio State's schedule: Of the nine teams the Buckeyes have played, 8 of them lost on Saturday. And the only winner was Purdue, which beat ANOTHER Buckeyes opponent (Northwestern).

AND FUTURE:@ The Buckeyes' final three opponents (Wisconsin, Illinois, at Michigan) all won on Saturday. They are a combined 20-7, a winning percentage of .741. The previous nine victims have an aggregate record of 37-41, a .474 success rate.

MWM
10-28-2007, 09:12 PM
Here's a few tidbits as well:

Penn State had won 18 of their last 19 games at home before last night.

Going into last night, Penn State was 7th in the nation in total defense and 4th in scoring defense.

From Pat Forde:

"Stat of the day: Against a team that had forced 60 punts this year, Ohio State never kicked it away once.

Runner-up stat of the day: A Penn State team that came in leading the nation in sacks at 4.4 per game got one -- and it didn't record that one until the fourth quarter.

Third-place stat of the day: Opposing offenses were converting 32 percent of their third downs against Penn State. Ohio State converted 12 of 16 Saturday night."

GAC
10-28-2007, 09:40 PM
Seriously, this analysis doesn't appear that you have followed the 2007 Buckeyes at all. Tressel's MO is getting shredded this year by opponents. They throw deep frequently, throw from passing formations, mix up formations, throw on passing downs, run on passing downs. Last night was a delight to watch play calling because I could not call the play before the snap by watching formation, down and distance. That is a new twist for Tressel.

Yep. It use to be that Tressel's offensive play calling was pretty predictable. Can't say that this year at all.




Runner-up stat of the day: A Penn State team that came in leading the nation in sacks at 4.4 per game got one -- and it didn't record that one until the fourth quarter.

Third-place stat of the day: Opposing offenses were converting 32 percent of their third downs against Penn State. Ohio State converted 12 of 16 Saturday night."

What does that say about OSU's offensive line? I don't think they are getting the credit they deserve; but most O-lines don't.

D-Man
10-30-2007, 01:29 PM
Seriously, this analysis doesn't appear that you have followed the 2007 Buckeyes at all. Tressel's MO is getting shredded this year by opponents. They throw deep frequently, throw from passing formations, mix up formations, throw on passing downs, run on passing downs. Last night was a delight to watch play calling because I could not call the play before the snap by watching formation, down and distance. That is a new twist for Tressel.

As for the D, I think GAC handled that one.

First, I don't appreciate the hostile tone. I'm always open to other people's ideas, and I expect the same. This is a chat board. If you think my post is worthless (apparently you do), then by all means, please add me to your ignore list.

My original post had three points:
1.) The OSU defense isn't overpowering, except on scoreboard
2.) I like this offense a lot, with a few exceptions--and it's much better than the 2002 unit
3.) Last year's team was a less-than-perfect match between the coach and talent; this year it's a much better fit

Note that I didn't say anything about Tressel's formations or play calling.

Regarding my first point:

I like defenses that dominate the line of scrimmage. I haven't seen that consistenly from OSU. They allowed 6 yards per carry against Penn State, and if PSU hadn't fallen behind, that would have been a serious problem in the 2nd half. Kinlaw, et al., pounded it up the gut for several scary long runs in the first half (PSU yards per carry was around 8 in the first half). That is the definition of a bend-not-break defense. The OSU defense is a collection of opportunists--they get a key sack, they gamble and get a pick. But they still have the hallmark of a unit that will give up a lot of yards (and points!) to good offenses.

My impression of the Buckeyes is that they are undefeated team that has been untested by a soft schedule. According to Sagarin, OSU's schedule is only the 68th hardest in the country, and they haven't faced any Top 10 teams, only one in the top 30. I can only imagine what Dennis Dixon, Sam Bradford, or Tim Tebow could do against this defense, and it wouldn't be pretty.

Regarding my second and third points:

I like the 2007 offense a lot, but it doesn't have the weapons (and unique characteristics) of the 2005-2006 squads. Last year, Tressel had a very talented QB with mobility and a cannon arm. But he was short. It took Tressel a year and a half (not until the 2006 Iowa game, by my count) to have Smith lead the offense out of the shotgun on most downs. I don't know why it took Tressel so long. That struck me as the optimal approach in, say, early 2005. When OSU moved away from the shotgun in the Florida game, that spelled doom for OSU's chances.

In addition, Tressel had the fastest player ever to wear a Buckeye uniform, and didn't know how to use him optimally. In a given game, Tressel generally sent Ginn on several down and outs, a few deep routes, and one or two screens/reverses. I would have like to see an offense that was (1) built around Ginn or (2) played more to his strengths (e.g., plays designed to get Ginn the ball in the open field with blockers to assist). This strikes me as a series of missed opportunities with a highly talented player. These are a few examples of a coach that didn't seem to mesh with the talent he had on the field.

This year, Tressel doesn't have the unique features and talents of the 2005-2006 squad, and that's a probably a good thing. I like Boeckman a lot, probably more than any other OSU QB I've seen. He is good at spreading the field, and he can hit the deep man in stride. But he does make mistakes, like the INT against PSU when he threw into double coverage. But there is no doubt, this is a run-first team. The offense is predicated on a powerhouse running attack, and that is the way Tressel prefers it.

I agree with your point about play calling. This year, it is better because it is a more optimal fit between coaching preferences and talent on the field. The nail in the coffin in last year's National Championship Game was at the end of the first half, when Tressel went for it on 4th and 1 from his own 20. That was a desperation move. Instead, the team came up short and was three scores behind at half, rather than two. That killed *any* hope the Bucks had of winning the game. That decision was pure hubris, and it showed a lack of flow between the team and coach. Contrast that with how Tony Dungy had the Colts take a knee at the end of the half in the AFC Championship vs. the Pats, down by two scores.

LoganBuck
10-30-2007, 03:16 PM
I like defenses that dominate the line of scrimmage. I haven't seen that consistenly from OSU. They allowed 6 yards per carry against Penn State, and if PSU hadn't fallen behind, that would have been a serious problem in the 2nd half. Kinlaw, et al., pounded it up the gut for several scary long runs in the first half (PSU yards per carry was around 8 in the first half). That is the definition of a bend-not-break defense. The OSU defense is a collection of opportunists--they get a key sack, they gamble and get a pick. But they still have the hallmark of a unit that will give up a lot of yards (and points!) to good offenses. .

Against Penn State they were playing cover two, and most of the running "success" came against 7 and 8 man fronts. Kudos to Penn State for good scouting. But Penn State was not able to sustain the running game after the first quarter. Michigan State has a pretty good running attack and they were shut down. If anyone will be able to run on OSU it will be Wisconsin, so we will see Saturday.

D-Man
10-30-2007, 03:52 PM
Against Penn State they were playing cover two, and most of the running "success" came against 7 and 8 man fronts. Kudos to Penn State for good scouting. But Penn State was not able to sustain the running game after the first quarter. Michigan State has a pretty good running attack and they were shut down. If anyone will be able to run on OSU it will be Wisconsin, so we will see Saturday.

If anyone better than Morelli (not exactly a high standard, I know) had been at the helm, PSU could have given the OSU defense fits, mixing in a power running attack with a passing game. Morelli is a replacement-level QB.

My point is that the OSU defense will be exposed when it faces a good offense. And it isn't like the Big Ten is brimming with offensive talent this year. Wisconsin and Michigan are two of the more talented Big Ten offenses, but that isn't saying much.

But hey, I'm just a guy who doesn't watch football games, so I have no idea what I'm talking about. . . ;)

traderumor
10-30-2007, 08:38 PM
First, I don't appreciate the hostile tone. I'm always open to other people's ideas, and I expect the same. This is a chat board. If you think my post is worthless (apparently you do), then by all means, please add me to your ignore list.

Hostile tone? That is a bit dramatic. The original post did not quite have the depth of the subsequent post, including the historical emphasis. You were speaking of the current Buckeyes, which honestly is the exact opposite of reality.

As GAC already pointed out, Purdue and MSU offenses were rolling and were barely getting first downs. These were not due to turnovers or sacks, they were due to three and outs. How many three and outs were there in a row in the Purdue game, who was at home on a Saturday night? Penn State gets shut down, oh, Morelli is replacement level.

The analysis borders on hypercritical to dismissive, which is fine, it is your opinion, but don't expect it to fly by unchallenged, even to the point of wondering if we have been watching the same games.

GAC
10-30-2007, 10:07 PM
If anyone will be able to run on OSU it will be Wisconsin, so we will see Saturday.

It will be interesting; but then again, look at Wisconsin's schedule also. They barely escaped UNLV (should have lost), Iowa, and Michigan State. Then got blown out by OSU's opponent last week in Penn State 38-7.

Wisconsin has been able to run the ball, but again, against who? Have they even played against a defense as formidable as OSU's this year? No.

The game is in Columbus.

OSU 34-13 ;)


OSU Wisconsin
Points/Game 8.9 (1) 30.1 (81)
Rush Yards/Game 70.9 (6) 205.4 (44)
Pass Yards/Game 143.7 (5) 213.0 (127)
Total Yards/Game 214.6 (1) 418.4 (64)
Third Down Pct. 29.7% (20) 47.7% (19)
Fourth Down Pct. 62.5% (200) 63.6% (139)
Sacks 27 (12) 22 (195)
Sack Yards -169 (27) -152 (200)
Rushing TDs 2 (2) 21 (30)
Passing TDs 3 (1) 12 (122)
Carries/Game 265 (18) 409 (15)
Yards/Carry 2.4 (8) 4.5 (69)
Completion Pct. 53.4% (138) 58.6% (108)
Yards/Pass Attempt 4.5 (1) 7.7 (49)
Pass Rating 87.4 (2) 132.0 (78)
Avg. NCAA Ranking 20.1 60.9

And they are going to do the same versus Illinois the following week too. Mendenhall is a solid running back, but Illinois is one dimensional with Juice Wiliams at QB.

The test is gonna come in the last game at Michigan. ;)

And people are saying the SEC is one tough conference and that the teams in that conference are beating up on each other. I agree. And while I don't believe the Big Ten is as strong as the SEC, can't the same be said of the teams in the Big Ten beating up on each other? I don't think it's as weak as some contend. OSU and Michigan are the elite teams in the Big Ten. Who are the elite teams in the SEC? LSU, Georgia, and possibly Alabama. After that, who?

There are 5 SEC teams in the top 25. The Big Ten has 3 (4 until OSU knocked Penn State out last week).

D-Man
10-30-2007, 11:11 PM
You were speaking of the current Buckeyes, which honestly is the exact opposite of reality.

I don't know what you mean by this statement.

Are you saying that my assessment is out of touch with "reality"? Like, noting how allowing 6 yards per carry is a bad thing--and THAT is "the exact opposite of reality"?


As GAC already pointed out, Purdue and MSU offenses were rolling and were barely getting first downs. These were not due to turnovers or sacks, they were due to three and outs. How many three and outs were there in a row in the Purdue game, who was at home on a Saturday night? Penn State gets shut down, oh, Morelli is replacement level.

The operative word I used above is "consistently."

Regarding Morelli--if PSU had Bradford or Dixon QBing, I'm suggesting the results would have been dramatically different.


The analysis borders on hypercritical to dismissive, which is fine, it is your opinion, but don't expect it to fly by unchallenged, even to the point of wondering if we have been watching the same games.

There is a lot to like about this OSU team, but you don't need me, Mark May, or any Internet yahoo to tell you that. The record book, box score, and scoreboard speak volumes.

But given that we've only seen eight football games thus far, college football fans are left to thin-slice every aspect of the season. That's precisely what I have been doing.

Last year, thin-slicing would have told us a whole lot more about the Buckeyes than the record books and scoreboard, particularly the defense. The Michigan game left the defense exposed. The defense looked flat-footed in the fourth quarter against Illinois and its mobile QB. Perhaps you believe those thin slices are "hypercritical" or "dismissive", but I think it's more illuminating, instructive, and (perhaps) predictive than scoreboard watching.

My counter to your thoughts are, what do you think we are likely to see from here on out? Given your post above, I assume you believe everything is peachy. If so, I wish you the best.

I have a healthy dose of skepticism, and rightfully so, given the finish to last year's season and the tepidness of the Big Ten (a distant sixth in terms of BCS conferences, according to Sagarin). I was thoroughly bummed beyond belief for two days in January after the National Championship debacle. I don't want to go through that again.

[Aside: If OSU does go to the title game, Tressel better be hoping that the media plays up the "unproven Buckeyes" angle. I'm beginning to believe that how the story is shaped leading up to the title game plays a key role in the outcome. ]

GAC
10-31-2007, 09:51 AM
I forgot to add it to the comparison above, but that "head to head" is OSU's defense vs Wisconsin's offense.

GAC
10-31-2007, 10:07 AM
Regarding Morelli--if PSU had Bradford or Dixon QBing, I'm suggesting the results would have been dramatically different.

Respectfully though D-Man, aren't you kind of putting forth an unrealisitic scenario, or maybe hypothetical is a better word, by saying "Yeah, but if the opposition had this or that player on their team it would've/could've been different results." We really have no way of knowing that do we? Isn't it simply an unprovable conjecture to say that if PSU had a better QB in there, or this opponent had a better RB or better linebackers, whatever, then OSU (or any team really) would have had a tough time?


Last year, thin-slicing would have told us a whole lot more about the Buckeyes than the record books and scoreboard, particularly the defense. The Michigan game left the defense exposed. The defense looked flat-footed in the fourth quarter against Illinois and its mobile QB. Perhaps you believe those thin slices are "hypercritical" or "dismissive", but I think it's more illuminating, instructive, and (perhaps) predictive than scoreboard watching.

And you bring up valid points about the OSU defense, and I said the very same things about them last year. I was very skeptical. But I am not so much this year.

But I also look at it this way too- the team they may end up playing (if OSU gets in) will also have it's "weaknesses", as well as their strengths. For instance,if it turns out to be BC, their running game is mediocre,and their pass defense is so-so.

That's when it comes down to solid coaching, and having a game plan.


I have a healthy dose of skepticism, and rightfully so, given the finish to last year's season.....I was thoroughly bummed beyond belief for two days in January after the National Championship debacle. I don't want to go through that again.

I agree. And I stated so on one of these threads about 3 weeks ago when OSU was ranked #5. I saw the teams ahead of them suffering at least one loss (California has had two),mand OSU moving up to #2 and ends up facing an another SEC teamin LSU, and we have deja vu all over again. Then LSU got beat by Kentucky. :lol:

But I understand your trepidation, and agree with you.

We first have to get by Michigan though. ;)

[Aside: If OSU does go to the title game, Tressel better be hoping that the media plays up the "unproven Buckeyes" angle. I'm beginning to believe that how the story is shaped leading up to the title game plays a key role in the outcome. ][/quote]

traderumor
10-31-2007, 11:05 AM
I don't know what you mean by this statement.

Are you saying that my assessment is out of touch with "reality"? Like, noting how allowing 6 yards per carry is a bad thing--and THAT is "the exact opposite of reality"?



The operative word I used above is "consistently."

Regarding Morelli--if PSU had Bradford or Dixon QBing, I'm suggesting the results would have been dramatically different.



There is a lot to like about this OSU team, but you don't need me, Mark May, or any Internet yahoo to tell you that. The record book, box score, and scoreboard speak volumes.

But given that we've only seen eight football games thus far, college football fans are left to thin-slice every aspect of the season. That's precisely what I have been doing.

Last year, thin-slicing would have told us a whole lot more about the Buckeyes than the record books and scoreboard, particularly the defense. The Michigan game left the defense exposed. The defense looked flat-footed in the fourth quarter against Illinois and its mobile QB. Perhaps you believe those thin slices are "hypercritical" or "dismissive", but I think it's more illuminating, instructive, and (perhaps) predictive than scoreboard watching.

My counter to your thoughts are, what do you think we are likely to see from here on out? Given your post above, I assume you believe everything is peachy. If so, I wish you the best.

I have a healthy dose of skepticism, and rightfully so, given the finish to last year's season and the tepidness of the Big Ten (a distant sixth in terms of BCS conferences, according to Sagarin). I was thoroughly bummed beyond belief for two days in January after the National Championship debacle. I don't want to go through that again.

[Aside: If OSU does go to the title game, Tressel better be hoping that the media plays up the "unproven Buckeyes" angle. I'm beginning to believe that how the story is shaped leading up to the title game plays a key role in the outcome. ]

Simply put, the D is fast, deep, and experienced, esp. in the Dbackfield. The "unproven" angle keeps getting replayed every week. This team is going to expose the "real" Buckeyes, then they kick their tail and all of a sudden, "well, it is a Big 10 team" or some other minimalist statement. So my skepticism is more of pundits than the Buckeyes ;)

registerthis
10-31-2007, 11:09 AM
Jeepers creepers...didn't the Buckeyes just go into Happy Valley and win by 20?

I can't imagine the discussion if they'd only won by, say, 7.

traderumor
10-31-2007, 01:28 PM
Jeepers creepers...didn't the Buckeyes just go into Happy Valley and win by 20?

I can't imagine the discussion if they'd only won by, say, 7.Dem's stunned faces in the Happy Valley crowd had apparently been reading some of the same things. Of course, the Buckeyes could fall and have a lot of points rang up against them, just like LSU's D was shredded by UK, but sometimes it seems pundit fans and commentators are trying to cya more than a doctor getting ready to be dropped by his malpractice insurer. The Buckeyes are a legitimate top 5 team, but will have to go into Michigan and win by 100 to impress anyone, I think.

Oh well, take it for what its worth.

LoganBuck
10-31-2007, 02:17 PM
The Buckeyes are a legitimate top 5 team, but will have to go into Michigan and win by 100 to impress anyone, I think.

Nope, all that would do, was cause more mentions of the Appy State loss for Michigan, and how the BigTen was weak, because of how well Michigan has played since losing to Oregon.

Unassisted
10-31-2007, 02:54 PM
The Buckeyes are a legitimate top 5 team, but will have to go into Michigan and win by 100 to impress anyone, I think.The only people I want the Buckeyes to impress are the few dozen men and women who write "Ohio State" next to the number "1" on their ballots every Saturday night and Sunday morning. Whether they managed to impress me, you and everyone we know on Saturday afternoon, IMO, is not important. But it is fun to discuss. :beerme:

bucksfan2
10-31-2007, 03:56 PM
I didn't catch the result but didn't OSU go into PSU, at night, play in front of 100,000+ fans, and dominate the football game? What else do these OSU detractors want. If you look at it most of the top ranked teams that lost, lost to subpar competition. UK is getting a lot of love but in reality they aren't that good of a football team. Beat the teams you are supposed to beat and you will be fine. Whether people like it or not, if OSU takes care of buisness they will be in the BCS championship game again this year.

traderumor
10-31-2007, 04:39 PM
What else do these OSU detractors want. For Ohio State to have beat Florida rather than run into a perfect storm. All of this is because they lost that game, and lost badly. But that's ok, I think there were a lot of lessons learned by all concerned in Columbus, esp. the coaching staff, who seem to have a more take no prisoners approach this year. Again, its just our misty eyed optimism, I know, but the Bucks have met every challenge so far this year, haven't lost a regular season game in over two years, and they still are, let's hear it, the chant of the masses that says so much...

"overrated, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap...overrated, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap..."