PDA

View Full Version : Coco Crisp?



757690
10-28-2007, 03:03 AM
With the emergance of Jacob Elsbury it appears that Coco Crisp will be available. He is young, cheap (app. 4M), and very talented. He has had some problems in Boston, but much of that started when he got injured last year and came back too soon.
He plays a gold glove cailber center field, and is a switch hitter, who can lead off or bat second.
I know the Reds already have too many outfielders, but in GABP, his defense in center would really help the team, and the Reds could use a small ball type player like Crisp to balance out the lineup, which IMO, is filled with too many #5 type hitters.
I think if the Reds offered Votto, they could get him.

hippie07
10-28-2007, 03:47 AM
Votto? for someone not a pitcher... that would hurt too much IMO.

BEETTLEBUG
10-28-2007, 03:52 AM
No I agree if it's not a Pitcher for Votto then not Votto.

WMR
10-28-2007, 04:05 AM
I'd prefer Hamilton in CF over Coco.

BEETTLEBUG
10-28-2007, 04:36 AM
I would too but I think Bruce is next centerfielder with Hamilton going to rightfield.

757690
10-28-2007, 04:36 AM
First, it doesn't have to be Votto. i just know that they will probably lose Lowell next year, move Youk to third and need a firstbaseman.

Second, they might include a minor league pitcher with Crisp for Votto. Votto made a great impression in Sept. and they are not that high on Crisp. Which also means that the Reds might be able to get him for a lower prospect than Votto.

Third, I love Hamilton in center too, but I watch a lot of Red Sox games since my brother lives in Boston, and Crisp might be the best defensive centerfielder in the game today. He makes catches that Andruw Jones made in his prime. Watching him play, you can see that he is overflowing with talent, but that Boston is just not the right place for him.

But that does bring up a problem, if the Reds acquire Crisp. Who to sit? But I think with Jr and Hamilton getting injured so often, it might not be a bad idea to have 4 solid starting outfielders. I would not want Crisp if it meant losing Hamilton, though, I agree.

WMR
10-28-2007, 04:50 AM
First, it doesn't have to be Votto. i just know that they will probably lose Lowell next year, move Youk to third and need a firstbaseman.

Second, they might include a minor league pitcher with Crisp for Votto. Votto made a great impression in Sept. and they are not that high on Crisp. Which also means that the Reds might be able to get him for a lower prospect than Votto.

Third, I love Hamilton in center too, but I watch a lot of Red Sox games since my brother lives in Boston, and Crisp might be the best defensive centerfielder in the game today. He makes catches that Andruw Jones made in his prime. Watching him play, you can see that he is overflowing with talent, but that Boston is just not the right place for him.

But that does bring up a problem, if the Reds acquire Crisp. Who to sit? But I think with Jr and Hamilton getting injured so often, it might not be a bad idea to have 4 solid starting outfielders. I would not want Crisp if it meant losing Hamilton, though, I agree.

I'll tell you what would make an amazing outfield...

Hamilton in LF...Coco in CF... Bruce in RF... move Dunn to 1st.

Maybe flip-flop Hamilton and Bruce... whichever of the two is the better defender should go in RF. I've heard Bruce is going to be a stud corner OFer... not sure if he's better than Josh, though.

That would be 3 plus defenders at their respective positions. ESPECIALLY sticking Hamilton in LF. That would be a hell of a luxury having his defense in LF.

WMR
10-28-2007, 04:50 AM
I would too but I think Bruce is next centerfielder with Hamilton going to rightfield.

Everything I've heard says that Bruce profiles strictly as a corner outfielder.

Screwball
10-28-2007, 04:53 AM
Everything I've heard says that Bruce profiles strictly as a corner outfielder.

Like what? I've heard he has good speed with a great arm. Then again, I haven't really read anything about his route running...

WMR
10-28-2007, 04:56 AM
Like what? I've heard he has good speed with a great arm. Then again, I haven't really read anything about his route running...

His size mainly. The same reason that Hamilton is a bit of a stretch as a permanent CFer. Except Hamilton is, I believe, quicker and a more athletic outfielder than Jay Bruce.

Bip Roberts
10-28-2007, 10:38 AM
If he got replaced by a rookie why would we want him...

Orenda
10-28-2007, 01:35 PM
If he got replaced by a rookie why would we want him...

because he can play. He is an upgrade over folk legend Ryan Freel, and can help make up for the balls Dunn cant get to because of his weight, and the ones Jr. cant reach because of his legs. I like the idea of acquiring an everyday CF to roam around until Drew Stubbs makes or breaks, or until a better replacement is found.

Jack Burton
10-28-2007, 01:53 PM
Coco Crisp? You're joking right. No thanks.

hippie07
10-28-2007, 03:11 PM
I know the Dunn debate has been discussed ad nauseum and I'm really not trying to rehash it... there's no doubt that Dunn is a great player and any team would be lucky to have him. However, if I'm WK and I'm trying to free up some money for pitching (either in FA or for trading in a salary dump situation).... to me Hamilton can spell Dunn in the sense that he's a left-handed power bat outfielder. Maybe he's not gonna hit as many HRs as Dunn but I think he'll bat for a much better average, while retaining a lot of the LH power bat threat, and playing a much better defense.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the thrifty WK is thinking - although it seems BCast is on the Dunn wagon - so it'll be interesting to see how that situation plays out.

Someone will have to convince me that our outfield wouldn't be upgraded by making Hamilton spelling Dunn and then geting a legit CFer (like Crisp or maybe Torii Hunter, or whoever) and then maybe (depending on which CF we chose) spending the extra $$ on pitching.

757690
10-28-2007, 04:07 PM
Someone will have to convince me that our outfield wouldn't be upgraded by making Hamilton spelling Dunn and then geting a legit CFer (like Crisp or maybe Torii Hunter, or whoever) and then maybe (depending on which CF we chose) spending the extra $$ on pitching.

Name a pitcher who is a free agent this year who would be worth $13M a year. A good idea in most other years, just not this one.

WMR
10-28-2007, 04:44 PM
Name a pitcher who is a free agent this year who would be worth $13M a year. A good idea in most other years, just not this one.

Carlos Silva. Maybe not that much, but I'd much rather spend cash to bring him to Cincy than on any OFer.

GoReds33
10-28-2007, 04:47 PM
Name a pitcher who is a free agent this year who would be worth $13M a year. A good idea in most other years, just not this one.Curt Schilling?:dunno:

SMcGavin
10-28-2007, 05:34 PM
Someone will have to convince me that our outfield wouldn't be upgraded by making Hamilton spelling Dunn and then geting a legit CFer (like Crisp or maybe Torii Hunter, or whoever) and then maybe (depending on which CF we chose) spending the extra $$ on pitching.

Defensively sure... but you are swapping Dunn's .940 OPS for Coco Crisp who has barely been over .700 the past two seasons. Unless Coco is allowed to wear a jetpack out in center his defense is not gonna come close to making that up. If the Reds wanted to go this route (speedy, rangy CF) they had Chris Denorfia who could have done it for much cheaper.

As for the extra money, Crisp makes $4M and Dunn $13M. I'm not sure you could even get Kyle Lohse or Carlos Silva for $9M/year. Torii Hunter would cost just as much as Dunn but be a pretty significant downgrade offensively.

757690
10-28-2007, 06:23 PM
Concering Schilling and Silva:

Schilling had to shut it down this year for a few months so he'd be rested for the last month and the playoffs. Not sure that is worth $13M. Maybe. I doubt he'd come here, but I wouidn't be upset if he did, nor would I be too excited.

Silva would be a nice addition, but with the market the way it is now, he will probably get a $50M contract for 4 years, or maybe more, and he is just not worth that. If The Reds could get him for a 2 year $16M contract, I'd be happy, but I don't want a lot of money tied up in him for years. Long term contracts on Free Agent pitchers scare me.

GoReds33
10-28-2007, 06:36 PM
Concering Schilling and Silva:

Schilling had to shut it down this year for a few months so he'd be rested for the last month and the playoffs. Not sure that is worth $13M. Maybe. I doubt he'd come here, but I wouidn't be upset if he did, nor would I be too excited.

Silva would be a nice addition, but with the market the way it is now, he will probably get a $50M contract for 4 years, or maybe more, and he is just not worth that. If The Reds could get him for a 2 year $16M contract, I'd be happy, but I don't want a lot of money tied up in him for years. Long term contracts on Free Agent pitchers scare me.First off, Silva won't get that kind of deal. I believe the Twins are offering him 7 million a year. I doubt he will get more than ten million on the open market.

Second, Schilling is a great pitcher. He commands the respect of the younger players, and he is a huge upgrade over what we have got. I would love to have Schilling, even if he does have to shut it down for a while.

AdamDunn
10-28-2007, 06:46 PM
Schilling can teach Bailey how to throw strikes consistently.

Anyways, I thought about the Coco Crisp thing as well. But we should only do it if we can somehow get rid of Ken Griffey Jr. by either trading him to Boston or to some other team. I think we could package Hatteburg and Maloney or Wood to get him. They need a first baseman. What we could do is give Ken Griffey Jr. for Coco Crisp and a prospect (like Craig Hansen/Daniel Bard/Michael Bowden, something of the sorts) if they were willing to put David Ortiz at first, Kevin at third, Griffey at DH. We might be able to get multiple prospects for Griffey since he's about to hit 600 and he comes VERY cheap for his price. The 600 chase will help them in terms of television ratings and merchandise selling at a low cost.

Coco Crisp is a leadoff hitter with speed and hits right handed. Both of these things we desperately need. We have great power lefties (Votto, Bruce, Hamilton, Dunn) and only one legitimate right handed hitter (Phillips) and no leadoff hitter (Freel doesn't count because we can't count on him to play everyday due to injuries, and just the way he plays). Coco is cheap and gives us a legitimate CF as appose to Hamilton and Bruce, who I think should play RF and LF in the future, respectively.

757690
10-28-2007, 07:27 PM
First off, Silva won't get that kind of deal. I believe the Twins are offering him 7 million a year. I doubt he will get more than ten million on the open market.


The Twins are offering what they can afford. That is not his market value.
He has been better than Meche and Lilly were up to last year, and they got $10M a year, in a free agent class that was much deeper than this years.
I could be wrong, but he will get at least a 4 year deal, worth at least $45M, probably closer to $50M.
It's not even the salary per year that worries me, I just don't think giving free agent pitchers long term deals works out most of the time. I can probably list on one hand the ones that have in the history of free agency.

*BaseClogger*
10-29-2007, 11:22 AM
I would rather have Coco Crisp for $4 mill than Rowand or Hunter at a FA market driven salary... You have to pick up Dunn's option because there is no pitchers on the market to spend on... I don't think Curt Schilling is going to come to Cincinnati so we can stop dreaming...

Stephenk29
10-29-2007, 11:46 AM
Crisp is a switch hitter for the record.

I don't think he's worth going after. I'd rather send Bruce out there to learn the hard way if we had to. The only outfield I would like us to get would be a legit stud CF., which we really don't desperately need like we do pitching.

Why is everyone wanting Schilling? He's old! He's 41 and can't even pitch a whole year anymore. Why would the Reds need an overpaid pitcher like Clemens on their roster? I don't see this one at all. We're trying to build for the future, Schilling might retire in the next year or two. We can't seriously believe we're suddenly going to be contenders for the world series next year. A sign like that wouldn't help.

*BaseClogger*
10-29-2007, 12:00 PM
Torii Hunter is NOT a stud CF, and neither is Rowand or Andruw Jones. Crisp plays just as good of defense and could put up similar offensive stats in GABP...

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
10-29-2007, 12:55 PM
Schilling can teach Bailey how to throw strikes consistently.

Anyways, I thought about the Coco Crisp thing as well. But we should only do it if we can somehow get rid of Ken Griffey Jr. by either trading him to Boston or to some other team. I think we could package Hatteburg and Maloney or Wood to get him. They need a first baseman. What we could do is give Ken Griffey Jr. for Coco Crisp and a prospect (like Craig Hansen/Daniel Bard/Michael Bowden, something of the sorts) if they were willing to put David Ortiz at first, Kevin at third, Griffey at DH. We might be able to get multiple prospects for Griffey since he's about to hit 600 and he comes VERY cheap for his price. The 600 chase will help them in terms of television ratings and merchandise selling at a low cost.

Coco Crisp is a leadoff hitter with speed and hits right handed. Both of these things we desperately need. We have great power lefties (Votto, Bruce, Hamilton, Dunn) and only one legitimate right handed hitter (Phillips) and no leadoff hitter (Freel doesn't count because we can't count on him to play everyday due to injuries, and just the way he plays). Coco is cheap and gives us a legitimate CF as appose to Hamilton and Bruce, who I think should play RF and LF in the future, respectively. I really doubt that the Red Sox need help in the TV ratings, merchandise area. If there is a team that doesn't need a big name on it's roster to make money it would be the Red Sox.( and Yankees ) If you are going for the he'll sell you tickets, he's approaching 600 hr's angle it will need to be with a team that doesn't sell out every game already. I can hear the phone call now." Hey Theo, it's Wayne, you interested in JR"
" No."
" Hell put people in the seats with the 600 Hr chase "
" We put people in the seats with wins and championships "
" Oh, whats the guys number that's running the Yankees now? "

HokieRed
10-29-2007, 01:41 PM
Ryan Freel's not going to be playing any more and we don't need Coco Crisp. The outfield is going to be Dunn / Hamilton/ Griffey until Bruce is ready. Then it will be Griffey / Hamilton / Bruce until the platoon of Rosales and Dorn is ready, then it will be R and D/ Hamilton / Bruce until Stubbs is ready. Then it will be Hamilton / Stubbs / Bruce.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
10-29-2007, 02:11 PM
Ryan Freel's not going to be playing any more and we don't need Coco Crisp. The outfield is going to be Dunn / Hamilton/ Griffey until Bruce is ready. Then it will be Griffey / Hamilton / Bruce until the platoon of Rosales and Dorn is ready, then it will be R and D/ Hamilton / Bruce until Stubbs is ready. Then it will be Hamilton / Stubbs / Bruce.
Wow, heres to all of our prospects panning out.:beerme:
If this is going to be the plan, we are all in for a long rebuilding process full of sub-par results and growing pains. A platoon of Rosales and Dorn is a stretch IMO, and one that would anger me personaly. LTD to Dunn makes much more sense than a hope they produce platoon situation. If not Dunn then I hope we can aquire a left fielder that can produce, or even better that we realize that we have a left fielder in Hamilton and sign a centerfielder that can produce.

HokieRed
10-29-2007, 09:38 PM
Do you think it's a big stretch that we could have an outfield of Griffey in LF / Hamilton in CF / Bruce in RF by midseason 2008? Dunn maybe to go to first base or to be traded for serious pitching help or Votto moved if we can sign Dunn? This doesn't seem to me to be much of a stretch at all. Coco Crisp has had a slugging average of less than .400 the last two years, with his home park in Fenway. His OPS over those two years is barely .700. He hits a home run less than once every fifty times to the plate. His hits go for extra bases less than 30% of the time. I can't imagine anybody in the Reds' front office is thinking seriously about Coco Crisp.

AdamDunn
10-29-2007, 09:51 PM
I really doubt that the Red Sox need help in the TV ratings, merchandise area. If there is a team that doesn't need a big name on it's roster to make money it would be the Red Sox.( and Yankees ) If you are going for the he'll sell you tickets, he's approaching 600 hr's angle it will need to be with a team that doesn't sell out every game already. I can hear the phone call now." Hey Theo, it's Wayne, you interested in JR"
" No."
" Hell put people in the seats with the 600 Hr chase "
" We put people in the seats with wins and championships "
" Oh, whats the guys number that's running the Yankees now? "

If you could increase TV ratings and merchandise for about 9 million dollars, wouldn't you? That's why we always hear the Griffey to Yankees rumor year in and year out. Just because they are the best in TV ratings and merchandise, doesn't mean they don't want more. After all, more is better. Not only that, I think he'll hit better in the AL since he won't be playing defense and wearing out his body.

fewfirstchoice
01-31-2008, 03:40 AM
I say Yes.I would love to see the Reds trade for Coco to play CF in GABP.He is signed through 2010 with his option picked up and he doesnt brake the bank.He could come in this season and play a great CF and give the Reds a lead off hitter.Then Next year Bruce move to RF when JR walks.I mean I would love to see Bruce get to play and start thsi season but we all know the Reds will take there time with Bruce getting to the bigs.So a outfield of Coco,Bruce, and Dunn looks pretty solid for 09.A OF of Dunn,JR, and Coco doesnt look quite bad for 08 either.

Say the Reds pursue Coco what do you guys think it will cost them to get him.Im going to say not a awful lot.THe SoX are trying to get rid or him now.He will be there 4th OF this season.So many a couple B- C prospects could get it done.

hebroncougar
01-31-2008, 09:07 AM
Norris Hopper > Coco Crisp.

Jefferson24
01-31-2008, 09:19 AM
Hopper's OBP is higher as well as his BA, you may give up a little on the defense but I would take Hopper over Crisp any day.

In fact last year I think Hopper's BA was higher than Crisp's OBP.

Moosie52
01-31-2008, 11:55 AM
Hopper was better for one year. He may not repeat those numbers. I sure hope he does, though.

757690
01-31-2008, 01:07 PM
Regardless of whether Hopper is better than Crisp (and I don't think he is, it's not even close), Crisp fills a need for the Reds better than Hopper. Crisp has shown he can be an everyday gold glove caliber CF.
Even if Crisp does not rebound to 2004-5 numbers, his defense is considerable stronger than Hopper's, and with Dunn and Griffey on the corners, they need a strong defensive CF.

hebroncougar
01-31-2008, 01:16 PM
Regardless of whether Hopper is better than Crisp (and I don't think he is, it's not even close), Crisp fills a need for the Reds better than Hopper. Crisp has shown he can be an everyday gold glove caliber CF.
Even if Crisp does not rebound to 2004-5 numbers, his defense is considerable stronger than Hopper's, and with Dunn and Griffey on the corners, they need a strong defensive CF.


No thank you. Hopper is already here, and won't cost a thing in terms of the farm. Bruce is on the way. Crisp is declining.

757690
01-31-2008, 02:07 PM
Hopper is not even the #1 CF on the Reds depth chart, Freel is. That says it all. The Reds do not have an everyday CF or a solid defensive CF, and they need one.

And ask any Boston fan about Crisp being on the decline. If anyone is due to decline in 08, it is Hopper.

If he loses a third of his infield hits or bunt hits, which he probably will due to teams defending against it, his BA will drop to .268. Add to that, that he can't take a walk or hit for power, and he is worse than Crisp offensively, and is much worse defensively.

Crisp also gives the Reds some backup in case Jr and/or Dunn leave after 08.

AdamDunn
01-31-2008, 02:09 PM
I'd give up a couple of low level prospects like Janish, Lecure, and Pelland for him. He's a legitimate base stealer if anything and could rotate at the top position with Hopper (lefty, righty). Both can make it happen, but if we have Hopper and Crisp, Hopper can move over to left field and Crisp take over in center during the ninth inning.

AmarilloRed
01-31-2008, 02:12 PM
There is no doubt we are going to need a centerfielder in the future. Bruce will play centerfield at first, but I would expect him to move to right down the line. I don't expect a lot of Norris Hopper, but it is possible he could be a starting outfielder for a couple of years. We will not need a centerfielder in 2008 however, as we will have Freel/Hopper at the beginning and Bruce later in the year.

As for Crisp, if he has a 2009 option, I would expect the Red Sox to decline his option, and we can go after him next year in free agency if we want to.

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 02:14 PM
I dont like how easily Boston is replacing him with a rookie. In all honestly I think there might be more to the story than they just want to move him.

RSNtransplant
01-31-2008, 02:36 PM
I dont like how easily Boston is replacing him with a rookie. In all honestly I think there might be more to the story than they just want to move him.

They are replacing him with a rookie who was named MiL defensive player and baserunner of the year 2 years in a row, who got it done down the stretch last year, so he should be able to come close to crisps 2007 .268/.330 BA and OBS numbers and play comparable defense. For the Sox I would love to see crisp as the 4th OF. For the Reds getting crisp would be great, I'd love to see him patrolling CF @ the games.

Stephenk29
01-31-2008, 02:41 PM
I dont like how easily Boston is replacing him with a rookie. In all honestly I think there might be more to the story than they just want to move him.

They're replacing him with one of their prize prospects who is much cheaper and probably a better hitter.

Crisp is a very solid defensive outfielder who I would put ahead of Freel and Hopper probably. With Dunn and Griffey's total lack of range out there is all the more important to have a great CF with lots of range (Crisp). With that said Freel and Hopper still are not bad center fielders themselves. All this is said with out even mentioning Bruce, who I want in CF. I think we have plenty of options already in house.

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 03:38 PM
They are replacing him with a rookie who was named MiL defensive player and baserunner of the year 2 years in a row, who got it done down the stretch last year, so he should be able to come close to crisps 2007 .268/.330 BA and OBS numbers and play comparable defense. For the Sox I would love to see crisp as the 4th OF. For the Reds getting crisp would be great, I'd love to see him patrolling CF @ the games.

He was named that for the Sox system not for all of the minors if i recall.

A few games in the WS is a pretty small sample size considering from what I saw were not all that hard hit baseballs.

I would think they would like to see if Ellsbury is going to be the guy a little more than just a few games down the stretch.

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 03:39 PM
They're replacing him with one of their prize prospects who is much cheaper and probably a better hitter.

Crisp is a very solid defensive outfielder who I would put ahead of Freel and Hopper probably. With Dunn and Griffey's total lack of range out there is all the more important to have a great CF with lots of range (Crisp). With that said Freel and Hopper still are not bad center fielders themselves. All this is said with out even mentioning Bruce, who I want in CF. I think we have plenty of options already in house.

Price means nothing to Boston especially when its the amount of money Coco is making.

*BaseClogger*
01-31-2008, 04:28 PM
Just to put Crisp's defensive awesomeness into perspective:
Crisp 2007 CF FRAR- 43, 27 runs or roughly 2.7 wins above average
Hopper 2007 CF FRAR- 6, or about 1 run worse than expected by the average CF in the same amount of playing time

Based on this metric, Hopper is a just-slightly below-average CF defensively, while Crisp could be worth as much as 3 more wins with his defense alone...

RSNtransplant
01-31-2008, 04:59 PM
He was named that for the Sox system not for all of the minors if i recall.

A few games in the WS is a pretty small sample size considering from what I saw were not all that hard hit baseballs.

I would think they would like to see if Ellsbury is going to be the guy a little more than just a few games down the stretch.

Yes just in the Sox system, but that still is an indication that he might be able to play as well defensively as Crisp.

He batted 353 in 100+ AB 30+ games in the regular season, that is small sample size, but bigger than the sample we have of Bruce, Cueto, and Bailey(? AB vs IP) versus MLB talent and people are ready to put them up as full time starters.

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 05:06 PM
Yes just in the Sox system, but that still is an indication that he might be able to play as well defensively as Crisp.

He batted 353 in 100+ AB 30+ games in the regular season, that is small sample size, but bigger than the sample we have of Bruce, Cueto, and Bailey(? AB vs IP) versus MLB talent and people are ready to put them up as full time starters.

I dont doubt that Ellsbury is probably going to be a good player, its just I dont understand why Boston wants to rid themselves of Coco before being a bit more sure. Its kinda like Votto and Hatte, I think Votto is going to have a very good year but Id still like having a competent back up in place instead of just having Votto and nothing.

Stephenk29
01-31-2008, 05:12 PM
Crisp makes almost 4 million a year. Ellsbury could be comparatively the same for much cheaper. Just because they have a high payroll doesn't mean they're not practical.

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 05:13 PM
Crisp makes almost 4 million a year. Ellsbury could be comparatively the same for much cheaper. Just because they have a high payroll doesn't mean they're not practical.

Well they did sign JD drew to a huge deal...

Stephenk29
01-31-2008, 05:15 PM
Well they did sign JD drew to a huge deal...

hahaha you mean one of the worst signings in any teams history? NOT a JD Drew fan.

RSNtransplant
01-31-2008, 05:16 PM
I dont doubt that Ellsbury is probably going to be a good player, its just I dont understand why Boston wants to rid themselves of Coco before being a bit more sure. Its kinda like Votto and Hatte, I think Votto is going to have a very good year but Id still like having a competent back up in place instead of just having Votto and nothing.

The answer to your question is that if Ellsbury can sufficiently replace Coco's defense and projects(and has short track record) of replacing his offense as well, that makes Coco available to trade and improve elsewhwere. The Sox are not cutting him, just offering one of their 25 legitimately talented MLB players to other teams that may not have a roster with legitimately talented MLB players. There's a good post topic - Who are the legitimate MLB talents on the Reds Roster. Defining legitimate MLB talent as being good enough to make the average MLB team. ie Cantu cut by Rays was not a legitimate MLB talent on Reds roster last year, not to mention a contender for ugliest scoreboard photo ever.

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 05:22 PM
The answer to your question is that if Ellsbury can sufficiently replace Coco's defense and projects(and has short track record) of replacing his offense as well, that makes Coco available to trade and improve elsewhwere. The Sox are not cutting him, just offering one of their 25 legitimately talented MLB players to other teams that may not have a roster with legitimately talented MLB players. There's a good post topic - Who are the legitimate MLB talents on the Reds Roster. Defining legitimate MLB talent as being good enough to make the average MLB team. ie Cantu cut by Rays was not a legitimate MLB talent on Reds roster last year, not to mention a contender for ugliest scoreboard photo ever.

Rays actually have some of the best talent in the majors.

RSNtransplant
01-31-2008, 05:26 PM
Rays actually have some of the best talent in the majors.

Are you saying Cantu is a legitimate MLB talent and should be on some teams active roster?

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 05:29 PM
Are you saying Cantu is a legitimate MLB talent and should be on some teams active roster?

I think you could do a whole heck of a lot worse. If Cantu is on your bench that must mean you have a pretty good starter. Id like to have Cantu on our bench still.

*BaseClogger*
01-31-2008, 05:32 PM
I think you could do a whole heck of a lot worse. If Cantu is on your bench that must mean you have a pretty good starter. Id like to have Cantu on our bench still.

I'd rather have Chris Shelton :D

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 05:34 PM
I'd rather have Chris Shelton :D

:D

RSNtransplant
01-31-2008, 05:34 PM
I think you could do a whole heck of a lot worse. If Cantu is on your bench that must mean you have a pretty good starter. Id like to have Cantu on our bench still.

I'd don't think the guy has no promise and the Reds need RH bats, but who are you taking off the bench(or bullpen) to make room for him?

He went from talent but unproven TB, to Reds in need of any RH bat, to the barren wasteland of FLA, is he legit?

Bip Roberts
01-31-2008, 06:05 PM
I'd don't think the guy has no promise and the Reds need RH bats, but who are you taking off the bench(or bullpen) to make room for him?

He went from talent but unproven TB, to Reds in need of any RH bat, to the barren wasteland of FLA, is he legit?

He was cut here because they didnt want to go to arbitration with him.

Probably take him over Hatte. He is more versatile position wise.

kentjett
01-31-2008, 06:44 PM
Crisp is similiar to Freel and he is injury prone. Bruce, Hopper and Freel will make a solid CF.

BEETTLEBUG
01-31-2008, 06:59 PM
One yr. with club option for 2nd for Lofton or Patterson or Trade for Coco Crisp?

roby
02-02-2008, 12:41 PM
Hopper is not even the #1 CF on the Reds depth chart, Freel is. That says it all. The Reds do not have an everyday CF or a solid defensive CF, and they need one.

And ask any Boston fan about Crisp being on the decline. If anyone is due to decline in 08, it is Hopper.

If he loses a third of his infield hits or bunt hits, which he probably will due to teams defending against it, his BA will drop to .268. Add to that, that he can't take a walk or hit for power, and he is worse than Crisp offensively, and is much worse defensively.

Crisp also gives the Reds some backup in case Jr and/or Dunn leave after 08.

It is next to impossible to defend against Hopper's bunt. That being said, Crisp is an interesting possibility for the Reds.

BEETTLEBUG
02-02-2008, 01:09 PM
So you would rather have Crisp than Lofton or Patterson then?

*BaseClogger*
02-02-2008, 01:48 PM
So you would rather have Crisp than Lofton or Patterson then?

Both are LH and Cirsp is better defensively...

BEETTLEBUG
02-02-2008, 02:33 PM
Thank you someone answered my original question. Thanks.