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AmarilloRed
10-28-2007, 09:08 AM
There recently was an article on mlbtraderumors.com about the possibility that the Blue Jays will be seeking to trade A.J. Burnett this offseason. They mentioned a possible trade to the Cardinals for Chris Duncan, but the problem with that is that the Blue Jays need a shortstop. I was wondering if the Reds could seek to trade Alex Gonzalez oor Jeff Keppinger to the Blue Jays with some additional prospects to get A.J. Burnett. There is a problem with his contract however. A.J. Burnett has a 3 year contract at $12 million a year from 2008 to 2010, but he can opt out of it after 2008. He has had injury problems, but A.J. Burnett does have the potential to be a #1 starter, so he could definitely serve as a #2 for us if he is healthy.

Bip Roberts
10-28-2007, 09:37 AM
I am all for trading for any pitching talent as long as it doesnt include Bruce.

mound_patrol
10-28-2007, 09:39 AM
I don't understand why any team gives the player the chance to opt out. Because if they pitch well they will always opt out for money. The only way the team gets to keep them is if they know they can't make more because they have played poorly. I think Burnett is worth the 12 million but I wouldn't trade much more than Gonzalez for him because its almost gauranteed he'd leave after his one year here.

as_v_1
10-28-2007, 09:52 AM
I don't understand why any team gives the player the chance to opt out. Because if they pitch well they will always opt out for money. The only way the team gets to keep them is if they know they can't make more because they have played poorly. I think Burnett is worth the 12 million but I wouldn't trade much more than Gonzalez for him because its almost guaranteed he'd leave after his one year here.


Totally agree we can't go giving up a ton for a player that more than likely would opt out. The Jays aren't going to trade him for just Gonzalez and some trash thou. Unless we could sign him to a new deal or something I'd pass.

Will M
10-28-2007, 11:26 AM
I was all for trying to pry him away from the Jays until I heard about that ugly contract.

GoReds33
10-28-2007, 11:44 AM
I was all for trying to pry him away from the Jays until I heard about that ugly contract.Sometimes those are the risks you have to take. I am all for going after him, but it would be better if they would give us some cash. I know that would require more talent, but the Reds have more talent than money. There is no way that we could get him for Gonzalez and some spare parts though. I think it would take Gonzo, and a mid level prospect.

UK Reds Fan
10-28-2007, 04:32 PM
Get that mid-leve prospect ready to go (Stubbs?) and Gonzo and get it done. There is your last piece for a legit playoff run for only an additional 7 mil a year after lessening Gonzo's contract.

WMR
10-28-2007, 04:36 PM
I would love to add a pitcher as talented as A.J. Burnett.

AdamDunn
10-28-2007, 05:51 PM
Get that mid-leve prospect ready to go (Stubbs?) and Gonzo and get it done. There is your last piece for a legit playoff run for only an additional 7 mil a year after lessening Gonzo's contract.

I concur.

AmarilloRed
10-28-2007, 06:45 PM
The article suggests that the number of innings will determine whether or not he opts out:

170+ IP-Opts out for a 4 year deal
150-170- Gray are and can go either way
Less than 150- Will play for the 24 million in 2009-2010.

Here is the complete article:

Should Cards Pursue A.J. Burnett?

Viva El Birdos has a well thought-out discussion of the prospect of the Cardinals trading Chris Duncan for A.J. Burnett. I have a few thoughts to add.

In my opinion Burnett effectively has a one-year deal, only worse. That's because he has the ability to opt out after the 2008 season. So one of two things will happen:

1. Burnett is healthy enough to pitch 170+ innings, opts out, and secures a four-year deal somewhere.

2. Burnett is not healthy enough to pitch 150 innings and chooses to accept the $24MM owed to him over the 2009-10 time period (I consider 150-170 innings a gray area). If a team trades for Burnett, endures an injury-plagued '08, and is then saddled with further burden, that's worse than a straight-up one-year commitment like Jon Garland's.

My other thought is that Duncan is not a fit for the Jays. They're locked in with Lyle Overbay at first and Frank Thomas at DH. Between Adam Lind, Travis Snider, and Alex Rios, the outfield corners are covered. The Jays' biggest need is a shortstop, also a need of the Cardinals. I suppose Duncan could be part of a three-way deal.

A takeaway, as noted at VEB, is that Burnett may well be the one available pitcher with #1 potential not named Johan Santana. Another good point of theirs - he's probably worth $12 mil as a 165 inning pitcher.

rotnoid
10-28-2007, 08:15 PM
I'd think innings pitched will be related directly to health. If he's healthy, he's pitching. And, if he's pitching, he's probably worth more than $12M per, so that leads to opt out. Also depends on the market next year. If a lot of the potential FA's start signing early, he's more likely to leave. I'm not sure the Reds can get this one done, though I'm all for trying.

mroby85
10-28-2007, 10:23 PM
I personally don't want AJ Burnett, he's hurt every single season, and he's expensive. I don't think it would be a wise move. I agree that Burnett has upside if he's healthy, but i don't think you have as much wiggle room for mistakes such as a team like boston or new york when we have a lower payroll, so if you want to be successful you really need to be close to error free in your signings. That's why i would prefer making a safe move, or not making one at all.

AmarilloRed
10-28-2007, 11:11 PM
There is no doubt it would be a risk. We would be giving up a starting position player for a expensive pitcher who has a chance of being injured. He is a potential ace pitcher, however, and the risk might be worth the reward. I suppose it might be considered better than trying to sign Curt Schilling in free agency. I still think it is something to look into, however.

roby
10-29-2007, 12:06 AM
I personally don't want AJ Burnett, he's hurt every single season, and he's expensive. I don't think it would be a wise move. I agree that Burnett has upside if he's healthy, but i don't think you have as much wiggle room for mistakes such as a team like boston or new york when we have a lower payroll, so if you want to be successful you really need to be close to error free in your signings. That's why i would prefer making a safe move, or not making one at all.

I agree M. I think Eric Bedard from the Orioles is a much better fit... and he's a lefty. Something that the Reds need in their rotation. :thumbup:

AmarilloRed
10-29-2007, 12:14 AM
I agree M. I think Eric Bedard from the Orioles is a much better fit... and he's a lefty. Something that the Reds need in their rotation. :thumbup:

CEO/president Andy MacPhail taking over the Orioles operation, you may see a couple of things develop, starting at the GM meetings in Orlando in early November. The second might be a surprise deal. The name heard most is lefty Erik Bedard. The feeling is the Orioles have enough starting pitching and need everyday players. Bedard could bring two or three major league-ready players.

This would probably mean we would need to trade 3 position players starters or prospects who are very close. It might need to be something like Votto, Edwin, and Gonzalez to pry Bedard from the Orioles. We would have to pay quite a price.

Jr's Boy
10-29-2007, 12:36 AM
No way after we have made great strides in defense this year after stinking up the joint for year's.

mroby85
10-29-2007, 02:52 PM
i'm more interested in great strides in the W category.

jballachino
11-03-2007, 10:39 AM
what about shearn and stanton for burnett

mound_patrol
11-03-2007, 10:43 AM
what about shearn and stanton for burnett

why don't we just add Freel and get Santana and Mauer instead.

WMR
11-03-2007, 11:25 AM
why don't we just add Freel and get Santana and Mauer instead.

Have 'em add Nathan as a throw-in.

rotnoid
11-04-2007, 06:01 PM
what about shearn and stanton for burnett

You're talking about Rob Burnett, right?

I(heart)Freel
11-04-2007, 07:06 PM
CEO/president Andy MacPhail taking over the Orioles operation, you may see a couple of things develop, starting at the GM meetings in Orlando in early November. The second might be a surprise deal. The name heard most is lefty Erik Bedard. The feeling is the Orioles have enough starting pitching and need everyday players. Bedard could bring two or three major league-ready players.

This would probably mean we would need to trade 3 position players starters or prospects who are very close. It might need to be something like Votto, Edwin, and Gonzalez to pry Bedard from the Orioles. We would have to pay quite a price.



The other thing is Bedard's contract situation. From the looks of it, 2008 would be his third (and final) year of arbitration.

So he's a free agent in 2009.

Not sure I'd trade much for one year.

Here's the contract history:

Erik Bedard p
1 year/$3.4M (2007)
re-signed 2/07 (avoided arbitration, $4M-$2.7M)
performance bonuses: $25,000 each for 175, 185, 195 & 200 IP
1 year/$1.4M (2006), re-signed 1/06 (avoided arbitration)
performance bonuses based on IP, games started
1 year/$0.33M (2005), re-signed 3/05
1 year (2004), re-signed 2/04
1 year/$0.3M (2003) 2/03
drafted 1999 (6-187), $80,000 signing bonus
agent: Mark Pieper
ML service: 3.171

jballachino
11-04-2007, 07:41 PM
What about Hopper, Hatterberg,and a prospect for Dontrelle Willis and scott Olsen from the Marlins

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
11-04-2007, 08:41 PM
CEO/president Andy MacPhail taking over the Orioles operation, you may see a couple of things develop, starting at the GM meetings in Orlando in early November. The second might be a surprise deal. The name heard most is lefty Erik Bedard. The feeling is the Orioles have enough starting pitching and need everyday players. Bedard could bring two or three major league-ready players.

This would probably mean we would need to trade 3 position players starters or prospects who are very close. It might need to be something like Votto, Edwin, and Gonzalez to pry Bedard from the Orioles. We would have to pay quite a price.
This should probably quoted, isn't this from a Baltimore newspaper?

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
11-04-2007, 08:43 PM
What about Hopper, Hatterberg,and a prospect for Dontrelle Willis and scott Olsen from the MarlinsA couple players who are borderline everyday starters for a team that played well below 500 last year is a stretch no matter how bad D-train's season was last year. That prospect would have to be Bruce and I wouldn't do that deal.

AmarilloRed
11-04-2007, 09:57 PM
This should probably quoted, isn't this from a Baltimore newspaper?

I believe so. It has been some time since I made the post to be sure about it.

ChatterRed
12-03-2007, 06:39 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Blue-Jays-aren-t-expected-to-be-very-active?urn=mlb,55863

He can opt out of his contract after this season, though.

He signed a 5 year $55 million dollar contract in 2005: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2249623

He got a bonus and the last 4 years are at $12 million per season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._J._Burnett

Major league stats: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6314

2007 10-8, 165 IP, 131 hits, 176 K's, 3.75 era, 1.19 WHIP, .214 BAA

Can he stay healthy and pitch 200 innings?

AdamDunn
12-03-2007, 06:43 PM
Matters on price... I'd give up any two prospects not part of the Big Four.

ChatterRed
12-03-2007, 06:44 PM
I agree. If they're trying to do a salary dump and you could get him without trading top prospects, I'd be interested in him as a one year rental. Longer if you could get him reasonably and he stays healthy, but mostly for next season.

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 06:47 PM
Worst contract in baseball history.

If he was easily available id still do it :)

Hondo
12-07-2007, 04:13 AM
Dude, I would love a Crack at AJ!!!!!!

Give them Lower Level prospects and eat all the Cash... The guy could be the next Curt Schilling... Without the Bloody Sock.

Thanks

crazybob60
12-07-2007, 07:03 AM
I wouldn't mind getting him at all!!! Even if we have to pay a tad to get him and try him at the number 2 spot and if he is healthy, heck, we may be able to slip Harangatang down a spot which would be helpful to Aaron as well!!!

Orenda
12-07-2007, 12:54 PM
I'd love to have him, but I thought someone had said their is a clause in his contract where he can opt out and become a free agent after the season if he throws over a certain number of innings. Anybody else no anything about this? However, he would seem like a perfect guy to target around the trading deadline if he was healthy. Toronto could be in a position where they have to accept the best deal for him, or get nothing at all.

I(heart)Freel
12-07-2007, 01:25 PM
I can't find anything about the opt-out clause. Just that he has one.

Also of note in his contract though:

Salaries:
06:$7M
07:$12M
08:$12M
09:$12M
10:$12M

Burnett may opt out of the contract after 2008
deal includes 8 round-trip limousine trips per season between Toronto & Burnett's Maryland home for his wife

hippie07
12-07-2007, 02:50 PM
Bailey & couple lower-level spects for Rios & Burnett....

Betterread
12-07-2007, 03:17 PM
I like him - but for what could amount to one year of his services, I would be reluctant to give up one of our top 4 propsects.

AdamDunn
12-07-2007, 03:57 PM
Bailey & couple lower-level spects for Rios & Burnett....

Umm... we don't need an outfielder and we need starting pitching. Bailey is probably going to be our best SP in two years.

AmarilloRed
12-07-2007, 06:13 PM
I'd love to have him, but I thought someone had said their is a clause in his contract where he can opt out and become a free agent after the season if he throws over a certain number of innings. Anybody else no anything about this? However, he would seem like a perfect guy to target around the trading deadline if he was healthy. Toronto could be in a position where they have to accept the best deal for him, or get nothing at all.

I mentioned it an earlier post in this thread. The more innings he throws the more likely he is to opt out. As long as he is healthy, he would be a bargain at the 12 million he is expecting to be paid between 2008-2010. It would simply make sense for him to opt out, and get the best deal he can in free agency.

Orenda
12-07-2007, 06:31 PM
I mentioned it an earlier post in this thread. The more innings he throws the more likely he is to opt out. As long as he is healthy, he would be a bargain at the 12 million he is expecting to be paid between 2008-2010. It would simply make sense for him to opt out, and get the best deal he can in free agency.

O. I see the threads were merged. I imagine if he is not dealt that his name will be floated heavily before the trading deadline as a rental.

BEETTLEBUG
12-07-2007, 11:38 PM
I would think we could get A.J. Burnett with out giving up the Big 5 if they took the whole contract and the Limo rides would be less time for his wife back and forth to their Maryland home.

ChatterRed
12-08-2007, 02:29 AM
Umm... we don't need an outfielder and we need starting pitching. Bailey is probably going to be our best SP in two years.

Better than Harang? Uh.....I don't think so. I don't think he'll even be better than Arroyo.

But we all have opinions. :thumbdown

Hondo
12-10-2007, 04:26 PM
Take on the Salary. If he wins 15-18 Games he is a Bargain with todays prices...

Thanks

ChatterRed
12-10-2007, 06:23 PM
Take on the Salary. If he wins 15-18 Games he is a Bargain with todays prices...

Thanks

Definitely.

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 12:53 PM
Bailey & couple lower-level spects for Rios & Burnett....


I'd trade them Hamilton for Rios - basically a swap of a lefthanded good hitter with power and good defense for a righthanded good hitter with power and good defense. Hamilton will not be up for arbitration for a while and that should be a selling point for Toronto. We get that much needed RH bat to compliment EE and Phillips.

Then I'd trade them Bailey for Burnett. It is a salary dump for Toronto, but they get one of the top 3 best starting pitching prospects in all of baseball.

If you have to sweeten the deal, I'd trade anyone not named Cueto, Votto, Bruce or Maloney. :D

I really think this deal would work and help both teams.

Then I'd tell Baltimore to kiss me, and not on the lips. :D (I kept it clean while making my point - surely that won't get me banned?)

AmarilloRed
12-13-2007, 12:59 PM
In my opening post I mentioned that the Blue Jays were looking for a shortstop. It may be that Gonzalez and Bailey would get the deal done.

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 01:00 PM
Either way, I think it is very workable.

Redsnake
12-13-2007, 01:58 PM
In my opening post I mentioned that the Blue Jays were looking for a shortstop. It may be that Gonzalez and Bailey would get the deal done.

I like the idea until I just read the David Eckstein just signed with the Jays. So there goes that idea.

Hondo
12-16-2007, 08:22 PM
I would in know way Give up Bailey in any TRADE for Burnett. He would be a Salary dump for Toronto.

Thanks