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WMR
12-10-2007, 12:22 PM
How about an addendum to his signature.....an "I ♥ IU" tag or something?

Sorry Wily Mo, I'm a UK fella like you, but a bets a bet. I had to wear Steelers colors for a week once because of my mouth.

Oh wow, that had to be a fun week!! :eek:

Name your terms, BRM, Joe's right, I gotta do something.

You can bet I'd have thought of something for you to do had UK won. lmao

BRM
12-10-2007, 12:24 PM
Oh wow, that had to be a fun week!! :eek:

Name your terms, BRM, Joe's right, I gotta do something.

You can bet I'd have thought of something for you to do had UK won. lmao

Razor is much more creative than me. If he doesn't chime in pretty soon, I'll have to figure something out.

WVRed
12-10-2007, 12:26 PM
Early word is Legion is not going to be allowed back.

cumberlandreds
12-10-2007, 12:28 PM
Early word is Legion is not going to be allowed back.

I think BG will send a message that if you quit on me you are not coming back. I figured the longer this dragged on the less likely he was going to be allowed back.

Chip R
12-10-2007, 12:35 PM
Early word is Legion is not going to be allowed back.


Are they releasing him from his scholarship?

WVRed
12-10-2007, 03:03 PM
Are they releasing him from his scholarship?

I got this at Kentucky Ink. Marc Maggard is the administrator there and has plenty of connections. He is pretty accurate when it comes to UK.


I had a conversation last night that makes me very doubtful that Alex Legion will be welcomed back on the team. As most here know, this is a bigger issue than Alex's talent. There are times when the disruptive nature of a given situation does not overcome the talent a particular kid possesses.

I could not get the person to flat out say "Legion is not coming back", but I was definitely given the impression that it's HIGHLY unlikely.

Although I like Legion's offensive ability, I have to support the opinion that his mom was too disruptive of an influence. Is that a shame? Yeah. Is it the right call....I guess so.

Either way, if I were making a bet, I'd place heavy money on not having Legion back on the team.....even now that he is asking to be allowed back.

mm

Razor Shines
12-10-2007, 07:08 PM
Oh wow, that had to be a fun week!! :eek:

Name your terms, BRM, Joe's right, I gotta do something.

You can bet I'd have thought of something for you to do had UK won. lmao
I think this one looks promising.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/gx/misc/ks-thumbsup.jpg

Blimpie
12-10-2007, 07:29 PM
Sampson is nice, but I like this one better...

http://www.akiln.com/lmg-sony-seinfeld/downloads/Elaine_Sequence-frontpage.gif

WMR
12-10-2007, 07:56 PM
I think this one looks promising.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/gx/misc/ks-thumbsup.jpg

It needs re-sizing. :rolleyes:

;)

jmac
12-10-2007, 10:02 PM
Has anyone heard UK's plans for radio broadcasts the day of bowl game. the basketball team plays a game that day at 11:00 or 12:00 then the football plays 3:00.
I figure Tom Leach will do the football game since it is a bowl game and the BBall team plays a no name basically. I have to work that day so I will have to listen to both on radio.

WMR
12-10-2007, 10:08 PM
I wonder if they might split it? Put the football game on FM and the bball game on the AM station?

jmac
12-10-2007, 10:21 PM
I wonder if they might split it? Put the football game on FM and the bball game on the AM station?

Well they could actually have both with a condensed or combined coaches shows between games. if the bball game ended an hour before the football that would give them time.
They just could not have both the "Wildcat wrap-up and Countdown to kickoff". Unless Leach wants to hop a plane real quick like, he can only do the broadcast on one though.

macro
12-11-2007, 02:03 AM
If Legion is a disruption, then so long. Too bad the Bengals don't have the same sense.

BRM
12-11-2007, 12:46 PM
It needs re-sizing. :rolleyes:

;)

Sounds like someone is trying to delay the inevitable...

WMR
12-11-2007, 06:50 PM
Not at all!

Hey I heard a rumor that Kelvin Sampson is getting fired??? It's just a rumor, so take it FWIW.

BRM
12-11-2007, 06:52 PM
Not at all!

Hey I heard a rumor that Kelvin Sampson is getting fired??? It's just a rumor, so take it FWIW.

I heard it too. When can I expect to see you sporting your new avatar?

WMR
12-11-2007, 06:52 PM
POST THE ONE YOU WANT ME TO WEAR Hoosier-boy!!!! :rant:

WMR
12-11-2007, 06:53 PM
One that I can actually use. :rant:

WMR
12-11-2007, 06:53 PM
:rant2:

BRM
12-11-2007, 06:54 PM
You're certainly an angry fella today, aren't you?

I can't see the one Blimpie posted. I just get a red X. The one Razor posted is fine with me. He must have re-sized it somehow because it's the one he's using.

WMR
12-11-2007, 06:56 PM
You're certainly an angry fella today, aren't you?

I can't see the one Blimpie posted. I just get a red X. The one Razor posted is fine with me. He must have re-sized it somehow because it's the one he's using.

:p:

WMR
12-11-2007, 06:58 PM
:redface:

BRM
12-11-2007, 06:59 PM
I also heard Dean Smith is coming out of retirement to take over at Indiana after Sampson gets fired. ;)

BRM
12-11-2007, 06:59 PM
You look mahvelous!!!

WMR
12-11-2007, 07:00 PM
I FEEL DIRTY.

So very, very dirty.

BRM
12-11-2007, 07:00 PM
But you look soooo goooood.....

WMR
12-11-2007, 07:01 PM
:help::help::help::censored:

BRM
12-11-2007, 07:02 PM
WilyMo is looking :cool:

BRM
12-11-2007, 07:03 PM
And to think the better Crawford did it to you. That must sting.

WMR
12-11-2007, 07:05 PM
Wow to be outplayed by your frosh brother as a Senior.

BRM
12-11-2007, 07:05 PM
A frosh brother fresh off a suspension.

WMR
12-11-2007, 07:05 PM
WilyMo is looking :cool:

I'm going to need a team of psychiatrists to get over this.

WMR
12-11-2007, 07:06 PM
A frosh brother fresh off a suspension.

That's been Joe's entire career at UK, however. Good one game, invisible the next.

BRM
12-11-2007, 07:06 PM
I'm going to need a team of psychiatrists to get over this.

I'll see if I can get Kelvin to give you a call. He may not have enough minutes left on his cell though...

WMR
12-11-2007, 07:08 PM
I'll see if I can get Kelvin to give you a call. He may not have enough minutes left on his cell though...

Well if what I'm hearing is correct he might be able to TALK TALK TALK TALKKKKKK to his little heart's content. :redface:

BRM
12-11-2007, 07:09 PM
No kidding. I'm hearing rumblings of some pretty bad stuff.

On a better note, my buddy told me this morning that he's pumped for the UK/UAB game on Saturday. He still plans on heckling Mike Davis the entire game.

WMR
12-11-2007, 07:10 PM
No kidding. I'm hearing rumblings of some pretty bad stuff.

On a better note, my buddy told me this morning that he's pumped for the UK/UAB game on Saturday. He still plans on heckling Mike Davis the entire game.

How is UAB this year?

BRM
12-11-2007, 07:12 PM
How is UAB this year?

I don't follow them, obviously. I looked them up on ESPN just now and they are 7-4. Former Hoosier Robert Vaden is their leading scorer.

WMR
12-11-2007, 07:18 PM
I don't follow them, obviously. I looked them up on ESPN just now and they are 7-4. Former Hoosier Robert Vaden is their leading scorer.

OOH I just had a huge wave of nausea. I've gotta quit looking at my avatar.

redsfanmia
12-11-2007, 08:46 PM
Not at all!

Hey I heard a rumor that Kelvin Sampson is getting fired??? It's just a rumor, so take it FWIW.

I hope both Sampson and Greenspan get fired they have brought shame and disgrace to Indiana, cheating of any kind should not be tolerated at Indiana.

Razor Shines
12-12-2007, 12:07 AM
OOH I just had a huge wave of nausea. I've gotta quit looking at my avatar.

Looks good. Not quite as good as mine, but those colors look good on you.

WMR
12-12-2007, 12:18 AM
Looks good. Not quite as good as mine, but those colors look good on you.

You hearing anything about Kelvin?

Razor Shines
12-12-2007, 12:45 AM
You hearing anything about Kelvin?

I've heard a few rumors and BRM sent me an email with some rumors about him possibly being fired.

The only thing that would really suck about that is that we'd probably end up with an interim head coach during Eric Gordon's only season at IU. I was never a big fan of his hiring in the first place, but I'm not longing for the days of Mike Davis either.

BRM
12-12-2007, 12:48 PM
This is the best WilyMo has looked in a LONG time. :)

IU is supposed to hear something about possible sanctions for the cell phone deal.

WMR
12-12-2007, 01:41 PM
This is the best WilyMo has looked in a LONG time. :)

IU is supposed to hear something about possible sanctions for the cell phone deal.

Don't worry, I've got a PLETHORA of sig-lines to go along with this piece of excrement. :evil:

WMR
12-12-2007, 01:41 PM
Savor this, you two, b/c next year it'll be your turn. Guaranteed.

BRM
12-12-2007, 01:46 PM
Savor this, you two, b/c next year it'll be your turn. Guaranteed.

Depends on who is coaching the Hoosiers next year...

WMR
12-12-2007, 01:49 PM
Depends on who is coaching the Hoosiers next year...

Which IU boards do you post on? I checked out the rivals board and the board affiliated with that newspaper and it was quite interesting observing the spectrum of Hoosier fans sentiments towards Sampson.

BRM
12-12-2007, 04:49 PM
Which IU boards do you post on? I checked out the rivals board and the board affiliated with that newspaper and it was quite interesting observing the spectrum of Hoosier fans sentiments towards Sampson.

None. I barely have enough time for this board. What was the general sentiment towards Sampson?

WMR
12-12-2007, 04:59 PM
None. I barely have enough time for this board. What was the general sentiment towards Sampson?

Most people seemed to be of the opinion that if he gets fired he deserves it and the program will be better off in the long haul.

They seemed to feel bad for D.J. White as much as anything else, which I can certainly understand.

BRM
12-12-2007, 05:05 PM
That sounds reasonable. The program could be better in the long haul if he gets fired. It all depends on who they hire to replace him. It's not a given.

Hoosier Red
12-12-2007, 09:42 PM
Hutchens pretty much put to rest that he was being fired, or at least as much as possible.

The rumors mill sure is loud though.

Quite honestly, if he was going to be fired, he would be already.

BRM
12-13-2007, 10:29 AM
Quite honestly, if he was going to be fired, he would be already.

That's kind of what I figured but you never know these days.

cumberlandreds
12-14-2007, 10:33 AM
Jasper suffered a setback yesterday in practice with his knee. I don't think he nor Meeks will play this season. I hope not, but I think all of us Cat fans are in for a long losing season,maybe a 20 loss season if they don't win tommorrow or Tuesday against Houston.


http://www.kentucky.com/269/story/258665.html

Redhook
12-14-2007, 12:00 PM
maybe a 20 loss season


Ah, Tubby's recruiting. The gift that keeps on giving.

BRM
12-14-2007, 12:12 PM
Tubby is the man!!

Minnesota 7-1
Kentucky 4-3

dabvu2498
12-14-2007, 12:16 PM
Tubby is the man!!

Minnesota 7-1
Kentucky 4-3

Best win: @ Iowa State. But they were losing those games last year.

Truly, I'm happy for Tubby and hope he does well there.

flyer85
12-14-2007, 12:39 PM
Tubby's a great coach, he was just never the right fit for Kentucky

BRM
12-14-2007, 12:40 PM
Tubby's a great coach, he was just never the right fit for Kentucky

I had no issues with him at Kentucky. ;)

WVRed
12-14-2007, 01:11 PM
I said it before, Tubby will do well at Minnesota and I wish him the best. His style of play fits well with the Big Ten and he doesn't have the pressure to recruit the best players to play for him.

WVRed
12-14-2007, 01:13 PM
BTW, has anybody else noticed that an Indiana fan has the second most posts on a thread concerning Kentucky basketball?:p:

Just sayin'.

BRM
12-14-2007, 01:16 PM
BTW, has anybody else noticed that an Indiana fan has the second most posts on a thread concerning Kentucky basketball?:p:

Just sayin'.

There is an Indiana fan posting in this thread? I wonder who it could be...

cumberlandreds
12-14-2007, 02:03 PM
There is an Indiana fan posting in this thread? I wonder who it could be...

Must be WillyMo since he has telephone man as his avatar. :p:

BRM
12-14-2007, 03:15 PM
Must be WillyMo since he has telephone man as his avatar. :p:

WilyMo has always been a closet Indiana fan. His true colors have finally come out. :)

BRM
12-17-2007, 11:19 AM
No comments on the UAB game? I was kind of surprised to come on today and not see any.

I thought it was a very entertaining game although heart-breaking for the 'Cats fans. They had no answer for Vaden in the second half. If they just would have figured out he couldn't do anything off the dribble. Everything was catch and shoot.

joshnky
12-17-2007, 11:42 AM
Question to UK fans: at what point does Gillespie start feeling some heat for this season? I realize these aren't his players and the cupboard was pretty bare coming in but he really hasn't shown much coaching wise. The Gardner-Webb loss was atrocious but explainable because it was the first game of the year but this UAB loss was pretty bad. UK rolled over against a bad team in the second half of this ball game and Gillespie was outcoached (gasp!!) by the infamous Mike Davis.

BRM
12-17-2007, 11:44 AM
My buddy told me the local papers (Louisville) were ripping him on Sunday. I think lots of fans and local sportswriters are starting to get riled up.

Joseph
12-17-2007, 12:14 PM
Question to UK fans: at what point does Gillespie start feeling some heat for this season? I realize these aren't his players and the cupboard was pretty bare coming in but he really hasn't shown much coaching wise. The Gardner-Webb loss was atrocious but explainable because it was the first game of the year but this UAB loss was pretty bad. UK rolled over against a bad team in the second half of this ball game and Gillespie was outcoached (gasp!!) by the infamous Mike Davis.

He gets a pass this year. Seriously he does. There will be whining and complaining here and there, but he gets a pass. If his recruiting class stinks, then the pressure rises. If he has 2 or 3 cupcakes early next season he loses to, the pressure rises.

Right now we all can/do/will blame Tubby somehow, so Billy G is ok. Many are wanting the second coming of Pitino, so losses early aren't anything to worry about.

Falls City Beer
12-17-2007, 12:14 PM
Question to UK fans: at what point does Gillespie start feeling some heat for this season? I realize these aren't his players and the cupboard was pretty bare coming in but he really hasn't shown much coaching wise. The Gardner-Webb loss was atrocious but explainable because it was the first game of the year but this UAB loss was pretty bad. UK rolled over against a bad team in the second half of this ball game and Gillespie was outcoached (gasp!!) by the infamous Mike Davis.

I don't know how you, as a Cards' fan, can come here and rip on UK--Louisville has been flat-out atrocious; every bit as bad as UK.

cumberlandreds
12-17-2007, 12:24 PM
He gets a pass this year. Seriously he does. There will be whining and complaining here and there, but he gets a pass. If his recruiting class stinks, then the pressure rises. If he has 2 or 3 cupcakes early next season he loses to, the pressure rises.

Right now we all can/do/will blame Tubby somehow, so Billy G is ok. Many are wanting the second coming of Pitino, so losses early aren't anything to worry about.

He will get a pass to a point. If they lose 20 games and they are well on their way to that, I think there will be a lot of heat. I also think there will be some heat depending on how bad they lose to UL. He may take a lot of heat too if they lose badly to Arkansas later in the year. John Pelphrey is a favored son of the state and many would have liked him to be coach. So far I'm not impressed with Gillispies coaching. Not any adjustments much at all during games. His defense isn't producing turnovers that lead to points. That is the most disappointing thing to me. Case in point, UAB averaged 22 turnovers a game coming into Saturday. They only had nine Saturday. I know a lot of it is lack of talent so I can wait till he gets "his" players there and on board with how he wants things done. I'm not so sure the whole body of UK fans are willing to wait two or three more seasons to get back on track.

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 12:31 PM
John Pelphrey is a favored son of the state and many would have liked him to be coach. So far I'm not impressed with his coaching.While I, too, am not ready to drink the Pelphrey "kool-aid" just yet, I can tell you that many of the heavy-hitting UK boosters ARE infatuated with him.

In fact, before Tubby resigned last year, the plan that was presented to him (regarding the removal of his bench coaches) involved bringing Pelphrey in as "assistant coach" at UK so that he could be groomed to succeed Tubby. Instead, we saw the following things happen in short order:

Tubby refused to axe his assistants and left for Minnesota
Pelphrey was nabbed up by Arkansas
Donovan said no (to UK and the Magic)
UK settled for Billy G.

The rest, as they say, is history.

joshnky
12-17-2007, 12:55 PM
I don't know how you, as a Cards' fan, can come here and rip on UK--Louisville has been flat-out atrocious; every bit as bad as UK.

Give me a break. I'd rip Louisville to if this thread had a different title. I was just trying to gage the reaction of UK fans because some in this area are starting to turn on him.

Also, while I agree that Louisville has struggled at least they've lost to better teams and have hope with Caracter back and injured players returning over the next month.

Falls City Beer
12-17-2007, 01:20 PM
Give me a break. I'd rip Louisville to if this thread had a different title. I was just trying to gage the reaction of UK fans because some in this area are starting to turn on him.

Also, while I agree that Louisville has struggled at least they've lost to better teams and have hope with injured/suspended players returning in the next few weeks.

Purdue's better than UAB?

Could've fooled me.

The only loss the Cardinals could hold their head up about is the one to BYU--at least that was faraway from home in the middle of a short tournament. Losing to Dayton at home is as bad as losing to Gardner-Webb.

guttle11
12-17-2007, 01:52 PM
Losing to Dayton at home is as bad as losing to Gardner-Webb.

Do you even follow basketball, FCB?

That statement is...to put it politely...as off base as Ryan Freel.

cumberlandreds
12-17-2007, 02:22 PM
While I, too, am not ready to drink the Pelphrey "kool-aid" just yet, I can tell you that many of the heavy-hitting UK boosters ARE infatuated with him.

In fact, before Tubby resigned last year, the plan that was presented to him (regarding the removal of his bench coaches) involved bringing Pelphrey in as "assistant coach" at UK so that he could be groomed to succeed Tubby. Instead, we saw the following things happen in short order:

Tubby refused to axe his assistants and left for Minnesota
Pelphrey was nabbed up by Arkansas
Donovan said no (to UK and the Magic)
UK settled for Billy G.

The rest, as they say, is history.

I meant to say I wasn't impressed with Gillispies coaching. I modified my statement in my post.
The strange thing to me about Tubby's departure and then taking the Minnesota job was his assistant's. Apparently he was asked to make changes on his staff at UK and refused to do so. But when he went to Minnesota he didn't take any of his assistants from UK with him. I think I would call that stubborn to a fault.
Tubby IMO was burned out at UK. It's a pressure cooker job and understandble after ten years. I really doubt we will ever see a HC at UK for any more than ten years. We will see after BG gets his own players here and what happens. I am willing to give him that much.

cumberlandreds
12-17-2007, 02:27 PM
Do you even follow basketball, FCB?

That statement is...to put it politely...as off base as Ryan Freel.




As of today Dayton is 8-1 while Gardner Webb is 5-7. GW is not a very good team. They held their own in NYC but in the end lost by double figures. Dayton along with the rest of the A-10 has done very well so far out of conference. Dayton is a better loss for UL but a team they shouldn't have lost to though. It looks like Pitino is having some internal problems on his team.

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 02:53 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that Dayton will be a tourney team come March. The REAL question is: How does Gardner-Webb compare to Houston?

UK travels to Houston this week expecting to "get well" with an easy victory on the road. In my opinion, UK will be lucky to get out of there with a win at all....

Losing 4 in a row will seem like 18 in a row if half of those losses are to UAB and Houston,

joshnky
12-17-2007, 03:04 PM
Purdue's better than UAB?

Could've fooled me.

The only loss the Cardinals could hold their head up about is the one to BYU--at least that was faraway from home in the middle of a short tournament. Losing to Dayton at home is as bad as losing to Gardner-Webb.

You're making yourself look foolish.

According to Sagarin rankings:

Purdue #60 compared to UAB #89. UAB has four losses including Florida St, Georgia Southern, Rhode Island, and South Florida. Purdue has lost two close games to Clemson and Missouri. The Purdue game was played on a neutral court in Indy while the UAB game was played in Louisville as a quasi-home game for UK.

BYU is ranked 31st and played North Carolina tough in Vegas.

Dayton is ranked 37th while Gardner-Webb is ranked 217th. Yeah, those losses are equally bad.

Also keep in mind that all of UKs losses, expect one to an injury depleted IU team, were at home or in front of a decidely pro-UK crowd.

I'm certainly disappointed in UofL's season as there were high expectations for this year, but to compare the losses to UK's is laughable.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:04 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that Dayton will be a tourney team come March. The REAL question is: How does Gardner-Webb compare to Houston?

UK travels to Houston this week expecting to "get well" with an easy victory on the road. In my opinion, UK will be lucky to get out of there with a win at all....

Losing 4 in a row will seem like 18 in a row if half of those losses are to UAB and Houston,

How will we do in the SEC?

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:05 PM
I'm frustrated as hell with these losses... but, like Joe said, I'm giving Billy G a mulligan on this season.

I would like to see better in-game adjustments, however.

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 03:10 PM
How will we do in the SEC?I predict that as many teams will finish above UK as will finish below...that's if Jasper and Meeks return in January.

Unfortunately, I expect that both will miss the entire season and UK will struggle to finish .500 in Conference.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:11 PM
I predict that as many teams will finish above UK as will finish below...that's if Jasper and Meeks return in January.

Unfortunately, I expect that both will miss the entire season and UK will struggle to finish .500 in Conference.

So you're predicting an NIT for the Cats?

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 03:12 PM
I'm frustrated as hell with these losses... but, like Joe said, I'm giving Billy G a mulligan on this season.

I would like to see better in-game adjustments, however.I would settle for ANY in-game adjustments.

Or, perhaps, using a timeout or two when teams go on 16-0 runs against our tiring defense.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:14 PM
I would settle for ANY in-game adjustments.

Or, perhaps, using a timeout or two when teams go on 16-0 runs against our tiring defense.

Hehehe, yeah.

What really perplexes me is that Billy G never seemed to have such difficulty making adjustments at A&M... what gives now?

Is he trying to make some sort of a point??

I don't get the seeming change in philosophy.

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 03:15 PM
So you're predicting an NIT for the Cats?I think a strong finish in the NIT would do far better for our recruiting than would struggling to make an #11 seed and having an early departure from the big dance.

joshnky
12-17-2007, 03:16 PM
This is the kind of year where the UK game really scares me as a UofL fan. That is a game that UofL should win easily provided they get a little healthier but weird things happen in rivalry games. The big upsets are much more embarassing and painful than the years when both are playing well.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:18 PM
This is the kind of year where the UK game really scares me as a UofL fan. That is a game that UofL should win easily provided they get a little healthier but weird things happen in rivalry games. The big upsets are much more embarassing and painful than the years when both are playing well.

Patrick.


Sparks.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:19 PM
I think a strong finish in the NIT would do far better for our recruiting than would struggling to make an #11 seed and having an early departure from the big dance.

Interesting take.

The only reason I really care about making the tourney this year is to keep the streak intact.

guttle11
12-17-2007, 03:19 PM
I actually think Kentucky will do well in SEC play, but that's more of an indictment on how I feel about the SEC this year. Tennessee is the favorite, but I'm not sure they're all that good, especially with Crews being out. Vanderbilt looks pretty strong, as does Arkansas. After that, I see a lot of mediocrity.

If UK can win 6 or 7 games at home, I think they can get 10 wins in conference play. They're not playing well right now, but I still think they'll have a wake up call moment and some things will click.

Probably won't be anything more than a 7-9 seed in the NCAA, but I think they get there.

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 03:20 PM
I don't know what to think when only 7 UK players make it in the game against a UAB team that is far more athletic than is UK.

Forget doghouse, A.J. Stewart has his own dognominium.

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 03:21 PM
Interesting take.

The only reason I really care about making the tourney this year is to keep the streak intact.Would that be the streak of not making the Final Four? 'Cause I think we're safer doing it my way.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:21 PM
I don't know what to think when only 7 UK players make it in the game against a UAB team that is far more athletic than is UK.

Forget doghouse, A.J. Stewart has his own dognominium.

I couldn't believe Billy didn't at least try him on Vanden.

I thought it would have been better leaving Crawford on him rather than letting him "shoot over a chair" for the entire 2nd half.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:22 PM
Would that be the streak of not making the Final Four? 'Cause I think we're safer doing it my way.

I meant streak of making the big dance.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:23 PM
I actually think Kentucky will do well in SEC play, but that's more of an indictment on how I feel about the SEC this year. Tennessee is the favorite, but I'm not sure they're all that good, especially with Crews being out. Vanderbilt looks pretty strong, as does Arkansas. After that, I see a lot of mediocrity.

If UK can win 6 or 7 games at home, I think they can get 10 wins in conference play. They're not playing well right now, but I still think they'll have a wake up call moment and some things will click.

Probably won't be anything more than a 7-9 seed in the NCAA, but I think they get there.

Yeah, the best thing about UK being so down this year is that the rest of the SEC is just about as mediocore as they are.

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 03:24 PM
I couldn't believe Billy didn't at least try him on Vanden.

I thought it would have been better leaving Crawford on him rather than letting him "shoot over a chair" for the entire 2nd half.Calling Porter a chair is an affront to all of our four-legged furniture friends.

His lateral movement was more like an ottoman or a futon sofa.

Blimpie
12-17-2007, 03:25 PM
I meant streak of making the big dance.Yeah, I knew that.

I was just being a smartass.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:26 PM
Yeah, I knew that.

I was just being a smartass.

:p:

Although that's a nice record too. :cry:

BRM
12-17-2007, 03:39 PM
Calling Porter a chair is an affront to all of our four-legged furniture friends.

His lateral movement was more like an ottoman or a futon sofa.

:laugh:

It was unreal watching Vaden catch and shoot the entire second half. I couldn't figure out why UK failed to adjust to him. At least stick an athletic player on him and force him to put the ball on the floor.

cumberlandreds
12-17-2007, 03:51 PM
How will we do in the SEC?


Without Meeks and Jasper I think they will win only 4 or 5 games. With them I think they will break even or win 9. The SEC looks to be really weak this year so about anything could happen. If you have SEC Tourney tickets I would plan on going the first day to watch them and have flexible reservations. It could be one and done in the conference tourney and I doubt that they make NIT much less NCAA.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:54 PM
If UK won an NIT championship, would they hang the banner alongside the National Championships?

durl
12-17-2007, 03:55 PM
I agree that without Jasper and Meeks, Kentucky will have a MISERABLE year. I predict that we'll will fail to make the NCAA tournament unless we get them both back for SEC play.

I'm still trying to figure out Billy's plan but I also understand that he has Tubby's recruits to work with.

cumberlandreds
12-17-2007, 03:56 PM
If UK won an NIT championship, would they hang the banner alongside the National Championships?

I would hope not. It's a runner-up tourney for up and coming programs. Not established programs like UK or UL for that matter.

WMR
12-17-2007, 03:58 PM
I would hope not. It's a runner-up tourney for up and coming programs. Not established programs like UK or UL for that matter.

I agree. They'd stick it somewhere, wouldn't they?

I mean, they wouldn't go so far as to not hang a banner? Don't they have other NIT championships? Back when that tournament actually meant something? Maybe stick it with those.

cumberlandreds
12-17-2007, 04:00 PM
I agree. They'd stick it somewhere, wouldn't they?

I mean, they wouldn't go so far as to not hang a banner? Don't they have other NIT championships? Back when that tournament actually meant something? Maybe stick it with those.

Yes put it separate from the NCAA banners.

Chip R
12-17-2007, 04:16 PM
It's a lot tougher to make the NIT than it used to be. Conference champs that didn't win their conference tournament get automatic invites, IIRC. That narrows the at large field down somewhat. Of course the NCAA will snap up some of those teams if they are from big conferences so the smaller conferences get a lot of those bids. Plus UK is going to have to start actually winning some games too. I don't care how sucky the NIT is they aren't going to take a 10 win UK team who hasn't beaten anyone of note no matter what their tradition is like.

Hoosier Red
12-17-2007, 04:50 PM
I think a strong finish in the NIT would do far better for our recruiting than would struggling to make an #11 seed and having an early departure from the big dance.

But the question is if UK as a team and a fan base would get excited enough for an NIT bid?

I thought the same thing when a 15-15 IU team hobbled into the NIT and then was crushed by Vanderbilt in front of friends and family at The Assembly Hall.

Of course that was a Mike Davis coached team(oh wait, that's not such a bad thing after Saturday) :):p:

Hoosier Red
12-17-2007, 05:09 PM
It's a lot tougher to make the NIT than it used to be. Conference champs that didn't win their conference tournament get automatic invites, IIRC. That narrows the at large field down somewhat. Of course the NCAA will snap up some of those teams if they are from big conferences so the smaller conferences get a lot of those bids. Plus UK is going to have to start actually winning some games too. I don't care how sucky the NIT is they aren't going to take a 10 win UK team who hasn't beaten anyone of note no matter what their tradition is like.

It's the same qualifications as a bowl game. UK has to be .500 or better.

Chip R
12-17-2007, 05:11 PM
It's the same qualifications as a bowl game. UK has to be .500 or better.


Aw, come on. You know they would make an exception for UK. ;)

jmac
12-17-2007, 09:15 PM
Update on Meeks : Practiced the last two days and Billy Clyde said he "may" play tomorrow !

Blimpie
12-18-2007, 11:21 AM
Update on Meeks : Practiced the last two days and Billy Clyde said he "may" play tomorrow !I would proceed with extreme caution with Meeks' injury. This type of injury that has been career threatening in many athletes.

If UK is .500 or below going into SEC play, I would lean towards redshirting both Meeks and Jasper.

jmac
12-18-2007, 10:22 PM
I would proceed with extreme caution with Meeks' injury. This type of injury that has been career threatening in many athletes.

If UK is .500 or below going into SEC play, I would lean towards redshirting both Meeks and Jasper.
I think you can scratch any thought of redshirting Meeks.

WMR
12-18-2007, 10:23 PM
JODIE WE MISSED YOU

:laugh:

WMR
12-18-2007, 10:23 PM
I really like this 4-guard line-up.

WMR
12-18-2007, 10:25 PM
Houston's gym is rockin. Looks like a sell-out.

WMR
12-18-2007, 10:39 PM
Notice that back pick on the and 1 by Crawford set by Carter?

Excellent play by the big man.

He has made some excellent contributions so far.

MEEKS IS ON FIRE.

jmac
12-18-2007, 10:46 PM
No matter the outcome, they are more fun to watch with Meeks.

WVRed
12-18-2007, 10:58 PM
On a side note, Patterson is not playing because of an ankle injury.

I think he is more missed in this game than Meeks.

guttle11
12-18-2007, 11:40 PM
I'm going to go ahead and take back what I said a couple days ago.

WMR
12-18-2007, 11:45 PM
Damn this is freakin' ugly. :lol:

UK looks absolutely lost on both ends of the court.

jmac
12-19-2007, 12:10 AM
On a side note, Patterson is not playing because of an ankle injury.

I think he is more missed in this game than Meeks.
Ky without Patterson and with Meeks only : not very good
Ky without Meeks and Patterson only : not very good

With Meeks and Patterson together while not great can be pretty good. A good inside/outside game with those two together.
BTW by good, I dont mean top 15 but they probably would have made NCAA while a 4-5 start is going to make things alot more difficult.

Blimpie
12-19-2007, 08:34 AM
I think you can scratch any thought of redshirting Meeks.Yep. But I still will hold my breath every time he lands on the floor after jumping in the air.

WVRed
12-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Ky without Patterson and with Meeks only : not very good
Ky without Meeks and Patterson only : not very good

With Meeks and Patterson together while not great can be pretty good. A good inside/outside game with those two together.
BTW by good, I dont mean top 15 but they probably would have made NCAA while a 4-5 start is going to make things alot more difficult.

I hate to say it, but I think even if we had a roster at full strength(Meeks, Patterson, and Jasper all healthy), I do not think this team has the depth or the basketball IQ to make it very far.

The three players who have been playing through injury would have made somewhat of a difference, but look at the following.

Ramel Bradley: Good shooter and can protect the ball, but cannot play defense to save his life. How many times have we seen him get beat on backdoor cuts this year?

Joe Crawford: Reminds me a lot of Keith Bogans in that he really doesn't have a set weapon, and that makes him a good college player only. The problem is Joe has never been able to take his game to the next level and at times does not play like a senior.

Michael Porter: Cannot protect the ball, too short, gets beat on defense. The only thing that he can do is shoot the ball.

Mark Coury: I think it speaks volumes when a walk-on is your starting forward.

Perry Stevenson: Sheray Thomas incarnate. He does have good shotblocking technique though.

There are more, plus coupled with the whole Alex Legion situation, and that at times I believe Gillispie looks clueless on the sidelines, is why Kentucky will not win many games this year, regardless of Patterson, Meeks, and Jasper.

HBP
12-19-2007, 11:23 AM
Joe Crawford: Reminds me a lot of Keith Bogans in that he really doesn't have a set weapon, and that makes him a good college player only. The problem is Joe has never been able to take his game to the next level and at times does not play like a senior.


Had flashbacks of Bogans when I saw his hair was gone. Too bad he'll never have the consistency that Bogans provided.

cumberlandreds
12-19-2007, 12:17 PM
OK, tell me if any of this game is worth watching. I have to get up at about 4:45 am to get ready to go to work so 9 pm games are out of the question to watch live. I have it on my DVR so is any of it worth an hour or two of my time?
I am reading conflicting reports about Patterson. One I read said he was OK'd to play but said he couldn't go. So what happended with him? This is really turning into a strange soap operish type of season.

cumberlandreds
12-19-2007, 12:20 PM
Had flashbacks of Bogans when I saw his hair was gone. Too bad he'll never have the consistency that Bogans provided.

Bogans finally found that consistency his senior year. I was really hoping Bradley and/or Crawford would too. But it's not going to happen. Very disappointed in those two. I really think they could be consistent but just don't have the mental fortitude to do it.

durl
12-19-2007, 12:41 PM
I hate to say it, but I think even if we had a roster at full strength(Meeks, Patterson, and Jasper all healthy), I do not think this team has the depth or the basketball IQ to make it very far.

I agree. Recruits from the previous staff have proven to be decent players at best and not the level of talent Kentucky has been used to over the years. I had hoped Crawford and Bradley would evolve into a great players but it just hasn't happened.

Meeks and Jasper may make a difference, but right now the best player on this team is Patterson, a freshman Gillispie recruit. Hopefully the three of them can stay healthy and turn the season around.

Blimpie
12-20-2007, 08:56 AM
To say that this article created a stir in Lexington yesterday would be quite an understatement. Say what you will about Billy Reed, but he nailed the situation in my opinion.

http://billyreedsays.com/2007/12/17/no-time-to-let-billy-clyde-slide/


No Time to Let Billy Clyde Slide
December 17th, 2007
by Billy Reed

In case you hadn’t noticed, the University of Kentucky basketball program is going to hell in a handbasket. It’s serious, folks, and Athletics Director Mitch Barnhart needs to take emergency measures right now to keep the slippage from getting worse – even if it means facing up to the fact that new Coach Billy Clyde Gillispie so far has been a disaster in every way imaginable.

Barnhart could send Gillispie packing without having to worry about tearing up a contract because Gillispie still hasn’t signed one. All he and Barnhart have is a memorandum of understanding. What’s that all about? Could it really be true that Gillispie won’t agree to any reasons for his dismissal except major NCAA rules violations or the commission of a felony?

That’s just one of the rumors out there on the street. The stories about Gillispie’s personal life have taken on a life of their own. It’s almost as if every time a group of Wildcat fans gather, their favorite game is, “Have you heard the latest Gillispie story?”


I’ve heard a bunch of them, and my sources are people whom I trust and believe. I’ve heard that Gillispie and his staff are rude and arrogant. I’ve heard that Gillispie almost has gone out of his way to insult many loyal supporters. I’ve heard that he’s not taking Van Florence, who has been the right-hand man for UK coaches for 31 years, on road trips this year.

And that’s not even the worst of it. Suffice it to say that if the stories are anywhere close to being true, Gillispie was absolutely the wrong pick to follow a class act like Tubby Smith. For 10 years, whether you liked his coaching or not, Smith was a gentleman who never did anything to embarrass himself, his program, or the university.

The rumors are so widespread that if they’re not true, I want Barnhart to say so. I want him to stand up in front of the media and state that he is perfectly happy with Coach Gillispie’s personal conduct. He doesn’t have to address the stories specifically. Just tell the public that the rumors are false and should not be believed, under any circumstances.

When Barnhart hired Gillispie away from Texas A&M, I complimented him for doing a good job. Gillispie was the hot coach du jour after his Aggies eliminated Rick Pitino’s Louisville Cardinals from the NCAA tournament in Rupp Arena.

But I also had some nagging problems with Gillispie that I probably didn’t voice as strongly as I should have. I didn’t like it that he had reneged on an agreement to take the Arkansas job. I didn’t like it that his head-coaching experience consisted only of three years at Texas-El Paso and two at A&M.

When I called Texas Tech Coach Bob Knight to ask about him, Knight said, “He’s a good coach, but the question is whether he can handle all that other crap surrounding that program.”

In retrospect, I’m even having doubts about his coaching ability. In fact, I’m wondering if he might turn out to be the basketball version of Charlie Bradshaw, the Bear Bryant wannabe who took over the UK program in 1962 and immediately ran off some 50 players with brutal mental and physical abuse.

It looks to me as if Gillispie has worked the life out of his players. They don’t have any spring in their legs and they don’t play with anything close to joy. I wonder if his hard practices had something to do with shooting star Jodie Meeks and The Mysterious Injury That Just Won’t Heal.

Whatever, Gillispie’s honeymoon has been the shortest of any UK coach ever. The wild excitement and great expectations of last spring already have dissolved into unhappiness and unrest. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a UK team booed as loudly as the one that slunk off the floor Saturday afternoon.

For the second straight year, the crowd for UK’s annual Freedom Hall appearance was far below the arena’s 18,500-seat capacity. Of course, Gillispie didn’t exactly endear himself to Jefferson County fans when he said that he’d rather play all his home games in Rupp Arena.

Jeez, what a bonehead. Isn’t he aware of how many Wildcat fans and alums live in Jefferson County? Doesn’t he understand the glorious tradition of UK’s appearances in the commonwealth’s largest city?

The last two seasons under Smith were disappointing – not so much from the standpoint of the final records, which weren’t up to UK standards, but from the team’s lack of effort, repeated dumb mistakes, and lack of grace under pressure.

Nobody believed it would get worse under Gillispie. But it has. I’d rather have a root canal than watch UK try to run its half-court offense. Without Meeks, the Cats only have three players who can score – Patrick Patterson, Ramel Bradley, and Joe Crawford – and Crawford was on the bench at the start of the game.

The Cats played well in a five-minute stretch in the second half, but they came unglued when UAB threw a 1-3-1 zone at them. They also had nobody who could stop Robert Vaden, the transfer from Indiana who got into a zone and stayed there. In the second half, he brought to mind Glen Rice, the 6-8 marksman who led Michigan to the 1989 NCAA title.

Down by three in the last minute, UK had a chance to tie and sent it into overtime. But immediately every UK fan who has been playing attention had to be confident that two things would happen: (1) Crawford or Bradley would take the last shot, and (2) it would be a shot that had absolutely no chance of going in.

So what now seems to be looming on the horizon is UK’s worst non-NCAA-investigation season ever. Barring a miracle, this team will be lucky to win half its games, much less get a bid to the NIT.

The thing Barnhart needs to know about tradition is that it must be nurtured, cultivated, and protected because, left untended for too long, it can vanish before you know it’s gone. The Wildcats have not won the NCAA title or even gone to the Final Four since 1998. And now, under Gillispie, the program is in shambles.

Barnhart needs to get this thing under control right now. Tomorrow might be too late. If Billy Clyde Gillispie is incapable of doing the things that must be done to be the UK coach, and beating the Gardner-Webbs and UABs of the college world is only one of them, he needs to be sent on his way.

But if Barnhart believes he is capable of running a classy program, if he still believes Gillispie was a good hire, he needs to step up and say so. The last thing UK basketball needs is the kind of soap opera it had at the end of the Eddie Sutton era.

macro
12-20-2007, 09:29 AM
Wow, I didn't see that coming! :eek:

I've heard "average fans" complaining about the coach, but to have Billy Reed say what he just said raises it to a new level.

Where do you guys see this heading?

EDIT: It was interesting to read some of the comments left for Reed. It seems that many/most leaving feedback were very critical of the article itself. I don't know what to think at this point.

cumberlandreds
12-20-2007, 10:26 AM
Reed is not a well respected journalist anymore and hasn't been for well over a decade. There are many rumors about him being drunk at games and other public events. There is good reason, I'm sure, that he doesn't write for the Courier-Journal or any other newspaper.
That being said, he brings up good points. Barnhart needs to squash these rumors now that are circulating about Gillispie unless they are true. If true, Gillispie won't last as coach and will bring the program down faster than Eddie Sutton did. There may good reason why Barnhart hasn't "caved in" to contract demands by Gillispie. He knows more than anyone else.
My view is that where there's smoke there's fire. I don't what is true and what isn't but I do know that things are getting more and more hazy with smoke nearly everyday.

WMR
12-20-2007, 10:32 AM
How many decades has Billy Reed been slamming Kentucky?

He makes a few somewhat decent points in his article, but Billy G's refusal to bow down before the good ole boy network certainly isn't one of them in my eyes.

Furthermore, I think he's treating these boys like he is for a reason. I think he's perfectly fine with running off whichever ones can't handle his system/methods. The man can flat out recruit. He will bring the horses, no doubt about that.

Blimpie
12-20-2007, 10:43 AM
What you said about Reed's tarnished reputation in these parts is valid. Ever since he left the Herald-Leader, he has tried to incite the UK fans on many occasions.

Truth be told, there are actually a few things in his article which trouble me. The comment about BCG dissing Van Florence is somewhat unjustified because Florence had back surgery a month or so ago and has not been able to travel.

I also don't care for Reed acting like a Monday Morning QB saying that "I also had some nagging problems with Gillispie that I probably didn’t voice as strongly as I should have" If he had a problem with BCG when he was hired, you can be damn sure that Reed would have lunged at the chance to voice them.

Also, there have been reports that there was a lot more to the story than Gillispie simply backed out on the Arkansas job offer. I have heard that there never was a formal offer from Fayetteville in the first place.

All told, I DO agree with much of what he says about the on-court coaching problems and BCG propensity to be "surly" with his handlers and other people (who I work with) who are soley tasked with making his life easier--not more challenging.

CrackerJack
12-20-2007, 10:53 AM
This Minnesota article cracks me up, by Patrick Reusse. I went to school in Bluegrass land for years and the "UK whackos" comments I can very much relate to. :)




What's interesting with these Wildcats wackos is that, in their world, Gillispie gets the credit for recruiting Patterson, even though he had made a verbal commitment to Kentucky and started to vacillate only after Smith found a new home in Minneapolis.

Smith also had a verbal commitment from Jai Lucas, who reneged after Tubby's departure and is now a freshman starter at point guard for Florida.

The real laughs in scanning the Wildcats' fan boards come with the realization that this is simply a larger version of what's gone on in Minnesota with the Gophers' football program.

There actually is a nation of Kentucky basketball fans as compared to the Dinkytown of Gophers football. And Big Blue Nation decided all it would take to quickly restore Kentucky to Final Four status was to dump Smith and bring in Gillispie, a sideline screamer, arm-waver and alleged star recruiter.

The Wildcats' multitudes spent months celebrating Smith's departure and Gillispie's arrival, spent months convincing themselves this was the greatest thing to happen to Kentucky basketball since the hiring of Rick Pitino -- spent so much time at these things that they are now incapable of placing any blame on Gillispie for his team's early-season implosion.

It has to be Tubby's fault, or these Big Blue bozos have to admit to the people to whom they were shooting off their mouths that Gillispie could have significant failings.

So, the bozos just keep screaming: "It's Tubby's fault. Wait until BCG gets his recruits in here."

Smith was 22-12 in 2006-07 at Kentucky. The Wildcats went 9-7 in the SEC, 1-1 in the conference tournament and then 1-1 in the NCAA, losing in the second round to Kansas.

Gillispie had a solid core of those players returning. He also had three notable freshmen: Smith recruits Patterson (a McDonald's All-America) and A.J. Stewart, and Alex Legion, a 6-4 guard, who was recruited by Gillispie after backing out at Michigan.

Legion was effective through six games, then left the program because he couldn't stand Gillispie. He's made the recruiting circuit again and apparently will wind up at Notre Dame.

Legion still was around when Kentucky lost by 16 at home to Gardner-Webb in the season's second game. Soon thereafter, Gardner-Webb lost to Radford.

Gillispie's four victories came in Rupp Arena against Central Arkansas, Liberty, Texas Southern and Stony Brook. The four-game losing streak has come against North Carolina (at Rupp), Indiana (without the Hoosiers' three leading scorers), Alabama-Birmingham (blowing a 15-point halftime lead) and Tuesday's abomination in Houston.

Clearly this is all Tubby's fault. If only he had recruited better, Gillispie could have inspired his team to an emotional victory over Gardner-Webb.

You're right, folks: What they have in Big Blue Nation is simply a much larger collection of the Dinkytown dozens -- the Gophers football fans who spent eight months convincing themselves that Tim Brewster was the second coming of Pete Carroll, and then didn't know what to say when he produced a 1-11 disaster.

So they screamed, "It's Glen Mason's fault," which was more comforting than to consider the possibility of being taken in by a Music Man.

WMR
12-20-2007, 11:01 AM
Sorry, I think that article by the Minnesota writer is just retarded. I'm not going to get into all the different reasons why I think it is stupid because, frankly, I don't have that much time.

cumberlandreds
12-20-2007, 11:44 AM
That Minnesota writer's credibilty is destroyed in the first two paragraphs. Patterson did not commit to UK before Tubby left and Jai Lucas never committed to UK. That was the end of reading the article for me. If you can't get simple facts straight then you should be working for the National Enquirer. The shame of it is that no one will tell people of Minnesota this and thet believe all that junk.

cumberlandreds
12-20-2007, 12:01 PM
Here's a good article by DeCourcey. I think he got things well. Also some good comments on the article especially from someone called shadowman.


http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=320277#comments

BRM
12-20-2007, 12:58 PM
Sorry, I think that article by the Minnesota writer is just retarded. I'm not going to get into all the different reasons why I think it is stupid because, frankly, I don't have that much time.

I'm still digging your avatar buddy. ;)

WMR
12-20-2007, 01:23 PM
I'm still digging your avatar buddy. ;)

:explode:

BRM
12-20-2007, 01:30 PM
:explode:

Isn't that the typical UK fan's reaction when watching their team play these days?

WMR
12-20-2007, 01:44 PM
Isn't that the typical UK fan's reaction when watching their team play these days?
More like:
:all_cohol

&

:rant2:

&

:ughmamoru

BRM
12-20-2007, 01:49 PM
Hmmm, looks like me watching the Mike Davis coached Hoosiers for 6 years.

WMR
12-20-2007, 01:52 PM
I'm still in Billy Clyde's corner, but this season has already been a trying experience, and we've got a long way to go.

BRM
12-20-2007, 01:53 PM
It could be a rough season for 'Cats fans, that's for sure. I wish I could say I feel bad for you....but I can't. ;)

WMR
12-20-2007, 01:54 PM
I'm going to go on record, however, and say that UK finishes 10-5 in the SEC.

BRM
12-20-2007, 01:55 PM
I'm going to go on record, however, and say that UK finishes 10-5 in the SEC.

Pass me whatever you're smoking.

WMR
12-20-2007, 01:56 PM
It could be a rough season for 'Cats fans, that's for sure. I wish I could say I feel bad for you....but I can't. ;)

I would not accept or give quarter to an IU fan!

WMR
12-20-2007, 01:58 PM
Pass me whatever you're smoking.

Believe it or not, I have seen some good things out of this team.

The improvements have been subtle, and have not yet been reflected in the win column, but they are there. They just need to put it all together for 40 minutes and continue getting healthy.

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 02:29 PM
I'm going to go on record, however, and say that UK finishes 10-5 in the SEC.

I guarantee you that doesn't happen. Absolutely guarantee.








Because they play 16 SEC games. :D

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 02:30 PM
Believe it or not, I have seen some good things out of this team.

The improvements have been subtle, and have not yet been reflected in the win column, but they are there. They just need to put it all together for 40 minutes and continue getting healthy.

WMR, I'm gonna disagree. That group doesn't play hard enough (or practice hard enough, I'd guess) to get any better.

WMR
12-20-2007, 02:33 PM
I guarantee you that doesn't happen. Absolutely guarantee.








Because they play 16 SEC games. :D

Errr 10-6. :D

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 02:35 PM
Errr 10-6. :D

So they lose to Vandy twice... UT twice... Arkansas (John Pelphrey!!!) for sure... who's the 6th loss to?

WMR
12-20-2007, 02:36 PM
So they lose to Vandy twice... UT twice... Arkansas (John Pelphrey!!!) for sure... who's the 6th loss to?

They'll split with Vandy and UT.

The other four are pick 'ems, IMO.

They'll lose a couple they should win and win a couple they should lose.

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 02:40 PM
They'll split with Vandy and UT.



:eek: :eek: :eek:

BRM
12-20-2007, 02:46 PM
So they lose to Vandy twice... UT twice... Arkansas (John Pelphrey!!!) for sure... who's the 6th loss to?

Don't forget a pair of losses to Florida.

WMR
12-20-2007, 02:50 PM
Don't forget a pair of losses to Florida.

Nah, Florida is below-average this season. I actually wouldn't be surprised if these Seniors get their revenge for the past couple years and beat them twice.

BRM
12-20-2007, 02:52 PM
Nah, Florida is below-average this season. I actually wouldn't be surprised if these Seniors get their revenge for the past couple years and beat them twice.

I can see a split. I doubt this Cats team will beat them twice.

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 02:58 PM
I can see a split. I doubt this Cats team will beat them twice.

I don't see them winning a game on the road.

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:01 PM
Hey DAB: I think it's time for a new sig-line for your avatar. :redface:

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:03 PM
Hey DAB: I think it's time for a new sig-line for your avatar. :redface:

I think it's time for a new user title for you...:p:

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:06 PM
I think it's time for a new user title for you...:p:

WHY??

Wily Mo STILL ROCKS IN MY BOOK.

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:08 PM
WHY??

Wily Mo STILL ROCKS IN MY BOOK.

Not username, user title. Kelvin Sanction is so offensive...

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:08 PM
Not username, user title. Kelvin Sanction is so offensive...

Oh haha.

Help me think of a better one.

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:09 PM
Oh haha.

Help me think of a better one.

Kelvin the Great

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:09 PM
Kelvin the Great

Kelvin the Fake?

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:11 PM
Kelvin the Fake?

Billy the Flake?

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:11 PM
Billy the Flake?

Billy the Drinker

...

Billy the Ladykiller?

...

Billy the Don Juan of the UK campus??

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:13 PM
Billy the Drinker

...

Billy the Ladykiller?

...

Billy the Don Juan of the UK campus??

:help:

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 03:13 PM
Hey DAB: I think it's time for a new sig-line for your avatar. :redface:

Never. It's always a good time to remember to BEAT UT!

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:14 PM
:help:

Billy the Recruiter

That's the only one I care about.

(and oh yeah, Billy the Coach Who Avoids NCAA Sanctions :p:)

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:15 PM
Billy the Recruiter

That's the only one I care about.

(and oh yeah, Billy the Coach Who Avoids NCAA Sanctions :p:)

Billy the cheater that hasn't been caught...

How about these?

Billy Baroo

or

Kelvin the King

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:19 PM
Billy the cheater that hasn't been caught...

How about these?

Billy Baroo

or

Kelvin the King

Kelvin, the cell-phone king:

"THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS, I'M SLASHING PRICES ON ALL CELL PHONES. THEY HAVE ALL GOT TO GO!!!! NOKIA, SPRINT, T-MOBILE, YOU NAME 'EM I GOT 'EM. NO CREDIT? NO PROBLEM!! SO COME ON DOWN BECAUSE ALL PHONES MUST GO!!!!"

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:20 PM
You might be calling him Kelvin Champion (Big Ten that is) in a couple of months.

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:22 PM
You might be calling him Kelvin Champion (Big Ten that is) in a couple of months.

I could see it.

Who is your main competition this year? (Besides Minnesota LMAO)

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:23 PM
Never. It's always a good time to remember to BEAT UT!

HAHAHAHA good call! :D

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:26 PM
I could see it.

Who is your main competition this year? (Besides Minnesota LMAO)

Michigan State and Wisconsin are both quality teams. Purdue is good too but they are awfully young. And I wouldn't count out Ohio State at all. I'd say the Big Ten is pretty open right now.

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 03:27 PM
HAHAHAHA good call! :D

For your benefit, WilyMo... got a new one.

Javy Pornstache
12-20-2007, 03:28 PM
Billy Gillisipie isn't even the biggest drunk Billy between he and Reed. And as Blimpie said, a back surgery has everything to do with why Van Florence is not traveling.

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:28 PM
For your benefit, WilyMo... got a new one.

Lemme add a little "talk bubble" to your new av:

"MOMMY SAYS I GET TO RIDE TEH SHORT BUS BECAUSE I'M SPECIAL"

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:29 PM
Billy Gillisipie isn't even the biggest drunk Billy between he and Reed. And as Blimpie said, a back surgery has everything to do with why Van Florence is not traveling.

THAT'S HOW WE'LL SETTLE IT: DRINKING CONTEST.

Last one to lose consciousness wins.

cumberlandreds
12-20-2007, 03:33 PM
Errr 10-6. :D


I hope they have that record but I really doubt it. I think it may be the opposite 6-10. But on the other hand the SEC is really weak this year. If they can keep people healthy and get a break or two along the way then maybe....

How long do you have to keep that avatar? That's the reason I don't bet like that. I would hate to be stuck with a Bruce Pearl avatar all season. :)

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 03:35 PM
Lemme add a little "talk bubble" to your new av:

"MOMMY SAYS I GET TO RIDE TEH SHORT BUS BECAUSE I'M SPECIAL"

Mr. Short Bus is gonna wind up with a degree from Vanderbilt and a career in the NBA. Not too shabby.

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:37 PM
Mr. Short Bus is gonna wind up with a degree from Vanderbilt and a career in the NBA. Not too shabby.

I was just going off the photo. ;)

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:37 PM
How long do you have to keep that avatar? That's the reason I don't bet like that. I would hate to be stuck with a Bruce Pearl avatar all season. :)

It's the best avatar I've ever seen him use.

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:39 PM
I hope they have that record but I really doubt it. I think it may be the opposite 6-10. But on the other hand the SEC is really weak this year. If they can keep people healthy and get a break or two along the way then maybe....

How long do you have to keep that avatar? That's the reason I don't bet like that. I would hate to be stuck with a Bruce Pearl avatar all season. :)

Ummm, I think the terms of the bet mandated a week. I'm not sure exactly what day I put it up... actually, I think I'll up the ante: I'm not going to take it down until UK wins.

TENNESSEE TECH C'MON FELLAS I'M COUNTING ON YOU. :laugh:

dabvu2498
12-20-2007, 03:40 PM
I was just going off the photo. ;)

I know.

Our other "stud" doesn't look too swift either.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/vand/sports/m-baskbl/auto_headshot/1432516.jpeg

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:40 PM
I think I'll up the ante: I'm not going to take it down until UK wins.


You're keeping it that long? Sweet!

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:40 PM
I know.

Our other "stud" doesn't look too swift either.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/vand/sports/m-baskbl/auto_headshot/1432516.jpeg

HAHAHAHAHAHA, they let him take his photo without his crash helmet? Great picture!! :lol:

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:41 PM
You're keeping it that long? Sweet!

Yeah I know. :(

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:43 PM
Yeah I know. :(

I changed my avatar for you, buddy. ;)

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:43 PM
I changed my avatar for you, buddy. ;)

:laugh:

Misery loves company. :laugh:

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:44 PM
:laugh:

Misery loves company. :laugh:

My sympathies got the best of me.

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:45 PM
My sympathies got the best of me.

Don't feel too bad. I'm already honing my photoshop skills for your avatar for next year's game. :evil:

BRM
12-20-2007, 03:47 PM
Don't feel too bad. I'm already honing my photoshop skills for your avatar for next year's game. :evil:

Yeah, it will have to be next year since there is no potential for a meeting in the NCAA tournament. :p:

WMR
12-20-2007, 03:48 PM
Yeah, it will have to be next year since there is no potential for a meeting in the NCAA tournament. :p:

:redface:

cincy jacket
12-20-2007, 03:52 PM
Has there been any updates on Jasper coming back? Last I had heard he was back in practice and then had a set back. Anything that gets Porter on the bench and Bradley away from the point has to help this team. To be fair though I have missed the last couple games and I am just assuming that Porter is playing no defense still and Bradley is well being Bradley and pounding the ball around the perimeter for 30 seconds each possession.

CrackerJack
12-20-2007, 04:22 PM
That Minnesota writer's credibilty is destroyed in the first two paragraphs. Patterson did not commit to UK before Tubby left and Jai Lucas never committed to UK. That was the end of reading the article for me. If you can't get simple facts straight then you should be working for the National Enquirer. The shame of it is that no one will tell people of Minnesota this and thet believe all that junk.

Well he got the "blame Tubby" thing right at least.

So we're supposed to take your word for it on the 2 players? Not being crass, but he goes into a little more detail, and said it was verbal commitment regarding Patterson.

Not saying he's necessarily right, but the reaction from UK fans to it is very predictable. (uh, um, I don't have to waste my time with that! Tubby sucks! He's wrong! Terrible Journalism!) ;)

And of course a short comment about Decourcey is then viewed as a "great piece of journalism" when all he says is that Uk fans need to be patient (what a concept!). It was basically a blog entry fit for a bulletin board.

So the bias is very clear here and what I expected!

Blimpie
12-20-2007, 05:14 PM
Looks like USA Today is now joining the fray with this little exchange...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2007-12-19-roundtable_N.htm


1. Kentucky has gotten off to a rough start under new head coach Billy Gillispie. Are these just some of the growing pains associated with the new coach? Or could the ‘Cats be on the outside looking in on Selection Sunday?

Jeff Zillgitt: It's both -- Kentucky will struggle this year and depending on the quality of the SEC, could very well end up missing the tournament.

Tim Gardner: I think it's a combination of several factors: both a new coach's system and the injuries that have plagued the 'Cats.

Jeff Zillgitt: Yes, injuries. And Alex Legion leaving hurts -- not only now, but the long term, too.

Jack Carey: Right now, they might be outside the NIT looking in. The Houston game was uhhhg-ly.

Tim Gardner: Yes, that game was ugly, but they don't have a PG (Derrick Jasper is the closest they have and he's still injured), plus Patrick Patterson turned his ankle and didn't play.

Jeff Zillgitt: So was the end of the UAB game.

Jeff Zillgitt: Bottom line: it will be tough for them to get to 17-18 wins.

Tim Gardner: They've had eight different starting lineups in the nine games they've played. And other than Patterson, they don't have a big guy down low that can battle consistently for rebounds.

Tim Gardner: Plus, Gillispie is still installing his defensive style. You can tell when you watch them that they aren't 100% sure where to be on the defensive end and it shows in the amount of points they've given up.

Jack Carey: They have had injuries, and injuries combined with the newness of everything can be a lethal combination. They've got a little time before the SEC heavyweights come on the schedule, but they've got a lot to catch up on.

Jeff Zillgitt: Gillispie also understands it's going to be a struggle.

Tim Gardner: Yes, we all agree on that. But will the Kentucky faithful be able to do the same?

Jeff Zillgitt: He gets a year ...

Jeff Zillgitt: Then serious results will be expected.

Tim Gardner: Gillispie's style will take time to make it down to the players, but I really don't think it's that far off.

Jack Carey: They have no choice at this point, at least until March. But the honeymoon might already be over or will be before long if they start losing SEC games.

Tim Gardner: The SEC doesn't have too many heavyweights, right? Other than Tennessee, that is ...

Jack Carey: Well, Vandy looks really strong right now; Florida could grow up in a hurry; Arkansas is no pushover; Ole Miss is unbeaten. But UK has the worst record in the league. The problem right now is them, not who they play.

Tim Gardner: I just think if they can get Jasper back running the point (simply to eliminate the silly turnovers that have plagued them thus far), get Meeks' legs under him and get Patterson back in the mix, they'll be a tough beat in league play.

Tim Gardner: It might not be an NCAA tourney season, but by March we'll be talking about how they're building something big. Mark my words.

Jeff Zillgitt: Is that a glass of Big Blue Kool-Aid at your desk?

Tim Gardner: I'm not a Kentucky fan, trust me. But I am a big believer in Gillispie. Hard work always pays off. It just takes time.

Tim Gardner: Tubby's leftovers sure didn't leave Gillispie a whole lot of depth to work with, either.

Jeff Zillgitt: Like I said, it will be tough getting to 17-18 wins -- with Louisville also on the schedule.

Jack Carey: You've got to give Gillispie time to get his own kids and get them acclimated. But of course, the last time they changed coaches, they won the national title in the first year. Fans probably remember that.

Tim Gardner: Exactly, Jack. I just hope they realize Pitino left Tubby with a load of talent. Not so this time around.

Blimpie
12-21-2007, 08:34 AM
FoxSports is also joining the dogpile.... Basketball in the Commonwealth hasn't gotten this much national pub since UK and Louisville renewed their rivalry years ago.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7579766#


All is not well in Kentucky
By Jeff Goodman

Updated: December 21, 2007, 3:16 AM EST

The expectations were grandiose in Bluegrass country.
Kentucky fans were smiling again after finally getting their wish. Tubby Smith was history in Lexington and the new coach would waste little time re-establishing the program as a national power.

Down the road an hour or so in Louisville, the talk was centered on the Cardinals' Final Four hopes with an abundance of high-level talent in the program.

Well, the Billy Gillispie Era has started out with a thud instead of a bang. The Wildcats will try to avoid their first four-game skid in nearly two decades when they face Houston tonight.

Rick Pitino's club is headed in a similar direction. Louisville has been decimated by injuries and yet another suspension to its only productive big man, Derrick Caracter. Right now, San Antonio and the Final Four look about as far-fetched as an NBA title did when Pitino was with the Boston Celtics.

Right now, the combined record of the two teams is a whopping 9-7. A broken-down horse on the side of Interstate 64 might have more fight left in it than these two programs.


Lexington was giddy when Kentucky athletic director Mitch Barnhart opted to hire Mr. Fix It, Gillispie, who had turned things around at his previous two stops at UTEP and Texas A&M.

It could be a lack of talent left over from the Tubby regime (Kentucky starts sophomore walk-on Mark Coury) or it could be that Gillispie's new team hasn't exactly taken to its new coach's relentless and intense style. It may even be that the Wildcats have little to no depth due to numerous injuries.

Whatever the case, the all-time winningest program in college basketball history is a .500 team right now — with a loss to Gardner Webb on its resume.

"I'm really excited about the direction we are heading," Gillispie said this past week.

Maybe Gillispie enjoys train wrecks.

One of the players that Gillispie was supposed to build the program around is already gone. Freshman Alex Legion left Lexington after just a half-dozen games.

And not because of playing time.

Because of Gillispie and his no-nonsense approach.

"He doesn't turn a basketball game into a chemistry project," one assistant coach said about Gillispie. "It's simple. His philosophy never changes. He's going to make you work. If you're soft, it won't work."

Gillispie doesn't do well with prima donnas and unfortunately, that's what he's got in Lexington — a bunch of kids who have been stroked and coddled while coming up through the AAU system. That wasn't the case back at UTEP or Texas A&M, when the only one he coached was former Aggie and current New Jersey Nets forward Antoine Wright.

The Wildcats have a pair of seniors in the backcourt who are good enough to win games in the SEC. Ramel Bradley and Joe Crawford may not be All-Americans, but they are capable, experienced players in a league that is down this year. Those two players and talented freshman big man Patrick Patterson should have been enough to avoid an upset against Gardner Webb and to keep things close against an Indiana team that was without its starting backcourt.

Things aren't all that much better down I-64.

Pitino's team has dropped two straight — at home against Dayton and on the road against a young Purdue team — and the team that many figured would contend with Georgetown for the Big East crown enters tonight's game against Marshall without a quality non-conference win on its resume.

Senior big man David Padgett was likely lost for the season with a knee injury and Juan Palacios hasn't logged a single minute due to a knee injury of his own. Then Caracter was tossed off the team yet again last week after blowing off curfew twice just hours after agreeing to a contract that allowed him to remain with the team.

Poor Earl Clark, who was forced to play in the middle against the Boilermakers. This was a kid who was actually recruited to play point guard out of high school in New Jersey — and now he's down in the post.

Caracter's suspension, which Pitino said would last "a while", lasted just one game. He was back at practice less than 24 hours after the Cardinals lost to Purdue. That was long enough for Pitino to figure out that this team, in its current state, would be waiting to hear of its postseason opponent after the NCAA tournament field was announced.

Caracter is back because, frankly, Pitino doesn't have much of a choice if the Cardinals are going to do anything or go anywhere this season.

Even with Caracter back, Louisville's still miles away from becoming a Final Four-caliber team. The same can be said right now about the distance between Gillispie's Wildcats and an NCAA tournament berth.

It's alright, though, because fans in Bluegrass country can still look forward to May 3. That's when they can get out and see some real thoroughbreds at the Kentucky Derby.

Blimpie
12-21-2007, 08:50 AM
While we are all wringing our hands here in Lexington, I might as well do my part to make sure that Louisville fans are also miserable as well....

http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/wp-content/uploads//2007/12/caracter.jpg

The local Cardinal beat writer perspective....

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071218/COLUMNISTS01/712180432/1002/SPORTS



Rick Bozich
Pitino's shift: indefinite to inconsequential

A week ago University of Louisville basketball coach Rick Pitino called a 20-minute news conference to announce that Derrick Caracter, his talented but troubled sophomore center, had been indefinitely suspended.

Yesterday Pitino gave the most user-friendly definition possible to "indefinite" -- one game. The Phoenix Suns don't change directions faster than Pitino has.

A coach who once suspended three University of Kentucky players one game for pulling off an unsportsmanlike-like free-throw shooting scam at Vanderbilt has sent a different message to a repeated rules breaker:

This team really, really, really, really, really needs you, Derrick. Is that enough reallys, son?

One game?

Coincidentally, the one game was an eight-point loss to Purdue in Indianapolis, where the world saw that Earl Clark, another U of L sophomore, is a forward and definitely not a center.

With a few more losses to teams with cheesy computer rankings like Purdue (81st) and Brigham Young (107th), the Cards will be in danger of getting an unfavorable seed for the NCAA Tournament or, worse, having to sweat out Selection Sunday in March. That's not the kind of talk that surrounded this top-10 team in early October before the injuries began.

Tough talk not so tough
Multiple curfew violations? Curfew, schmurfew. Derrick Caracter holds the keys to this team. Last year, after the first round of Caracter drama, Pitino was ready to hand him a one-way bus ticket back to New Jersey. Now Pitino is letting Caracter drive the bus, as frightening as that sounds.

The coach said that if Caracter makes his weight (here we go again) and fulfills the rest of his behavior contract, he likely will play against Marshall tonight in Freedom Hall.

A week ago Pitino said this about Caracter's indefinite suspension: "It's going to be awhile because he needs to make dramatic changes in his life."

And this: "Some of the choices he's made are very serious in nature; we're not talking about curfew, which is a minor thing when dealing with him."

Do not forget this: "We all go through it with our children. But you, as a parent, can't say, 'OK, Sweetie, next time don't do it again.' That's what's being done too much today. 'Don't do it again, sweetie, I love you, here, have 10 more dollars.' You can't do that."

There was more tough talk from Pitino last week -- plans to remove Caracter from the basketball dorm, something that remains a possibility -- but you get the picture. And the picture was that teaching Caracter to follow basic rules was Job One. This has been going on for months.

Apparently it's Job 1B. Derrick Caracter is set to return tonight. With David Padgett injured, Caracter is the one and only guy who can play center on Pitino's roster.

Crystal clear for Caracter
If I'm Caracter, I'm learning a lesson all right. This is the lesson:

"This coach needs me. These players need me. When Coach waves me in tonight, these fans will give me a loud ovation.

"I can pick the rules I want to follow and follow them when I choose. I might sit a game. Might sit a couple. But, bottom line, this program needs me more than I need to follow all the rules."

That's surprising. That's not the Rick Pitino I remember, especially from his days at UK.

At UK, Pitino once made three players miss a game in 1994 against Tennessee because they had successfully worked a scam to substitute a better free-throw shooter in a game at Vanderbilt. Guys who didn't do things Pitino's way were eventually guys who were going, going, gone.

Derrick Caracter isn't gone. Or even suspended. Derrick Caracter is back -- and more important than he's ever been.


...and now the national perspective :D

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10532738


Caracter issues? Pitino cracks down, until it's inconvenient
Dec. 16, 2007
By Gregg Doyel

Sophomore Derrick Caracter has been a headache since he got to Louisville. Worse than a headache -- he has been a migraine. Worse than a migraine. OK, you want to know what Derrick Caracter has been? He has been a pain in the ass.

This is Louisville coach Rick Pitino's 22nd year as a college basketball coach, starting at Boston University and including stops at Providence and Kentucky. Since Caracter arrived on campus last summer, Pitino says, "I've had more problems in a year and a half than in all those places combined."


Will Pitino ground Derrick Caracter for an extended period? What do you think? (Getty Images)
That's how bad Derrick Caracter has been. But that's also how good Derrick Caracter is, and how good he can be. A player like this, you don't kick off the team. Not a player like this. Brandon Bender is the kind of player Rick Pitino kicks off the team, as he did in 2002, because Brandon Bender couldn't play possum if you ran him over with an Escalade.

Caracter is the kind of guy who one day could own an Escalade, and maybe an entire Escalade dealership. Caracter could be that good. Which is why, despite being so bad, he was on the bench for Louisville's game against Purdue on Saturday and could be back on the floor Tuesday when the Cardinals play Marshall.

This comes one week after Caracter symbolically laughed in Pitino's face.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not mad at Caracter. You ask me, he's welcome to stay at Louisville as long as he wants. His continued presence makes Pitino look awful, and I'm all about anything that makes Pitino look awful.

This latest incident looks particularly awful. Here are the details:

In the days leading up to Louisville's game last Saturday against Dayton, Caracter got into trouble. Again. Caracter is always getting into trouble, whether he's not coming home at night or not going to class in the morning or whatever. As Pitino said in the second paragraph of this story, Caracter is a massive, never-ending problem.

Pitino wouldn't say what this particular trouble was before the Dayton game, but whatever it was, he said it was enough for him to suspend Caracter indefinitely. That was a big deal, because the Cardinals don't have any viable big men after Caracter -- don't tell me about 6-foot-10 senior Terrance Farley; I said "viable" -- and Dayton was a team that could beat them. Dayton was a team that did beat them last season, and a repeat of that loss last weekend, at home, would have been damaging to Louisville's NCAA Tournament resume.

Yet Pitino still was going to suspend Caracter.

"I was not going to play him in the Dayton game," Pitino said. "I was 100 percent sure not to play him. It was going to be a while before he stepped on the basketball court."

So this is what Rick Pitino -- that leader, that molder of men -- did. He went to his team and asked for their permission to suspend Caracter.

They said no.

"The team asked me to override it because we couldn't win without him," Pitino said. "We didn't have any size, we didn't have players, so we couldn't win without him."

Pitino traded in his discipline -- and his coaching testicles -- for a win. He let Caracter play against Dayton, but not without letting Caracter know how serious this situation was. In previous months Pitino already had drawn up at least one "contract" with Caracter, stipulating the behaviors that were and were not acceptable. Caracter had broken that contract time and again, so here's what Pitino did before the Dayton game: He drew up another contract. Saying the same stuff. And had Caracter sign it again. Because Pitino is that kind of no-means-no disciplinarian.

Caracter was so grateful for the 17th chance that he produced a typical Derrick Caracter performance -- lots of effort on offense, none on defense -- in a 70-65 loss to Dayton.

And then he broke his contract with Pitino by breaking his curfew.

That same night.

Twice.

Caracter was supposed to report to his dormitory by 9 p.m., but he ambled in at 10. And then shortly before midnight he snuck back out. OK, snuck is the wrong word. Caracter is 6-9, 270 pounds. The dorm doesn't have any secret entrances. Basically, this enormous guy walked out the front door and dared Pitino to do something about it. Why? Because for 18 months he had given Pitino more trouble than any, or all, of the players Pitino had coached in his previous 20 years -- and still Pitino had let him play. Because Pitino needed Derrick Caracter.

Pitino tells it another way. He says he doesn't care about Caracter the player nearly as much as he cares about Caracter the person.

"The reason we've taken so much effort trying to change him," Pitino said, "is we love his mom and we felt he was very worth the change -- not so much as a basketball player, but if he didn't change he has no chance of making it in life, never mind basketball."

Heart-warming. And did we mention the 13.4 points and 7.4 rebounds Caracter was providing? Did we mention Caracter has been cited as a potential NBA lottery pick since he was in eighth grade?

"He needs to make dramatic changes in his life," Pitino said. "I've never seen anyone so far behind in the game of life. ... I never knew when we recruited him that he would be this far behind -- not basketball-wise, but personally."

Pitino blames that on the NCAA, which has limited coaching staffs' contact with potential recruits, when he should be blaming it on assistant Steve Masiello, who runs amok in the New York-New Jersey area and brings in city players like Caracter, Earl Clark and Edgar Sosa who clash repeatedly with Pitino.

Or Pitino should blame it on the Louisville assistant -- he didn't name him, so it might not be Masiello -- who had been literally waking up Caracter every morning so Caracter could do the things on his daily schedule without getting into more trouble with Pitino.

They're building fine young men at Louisville, aren't they? Sleep late, and we'll wake you up. Break our rules, and we'll still let you play. Come to Louisville, where kids will be kids and the adults will look the other way.

This guy has zero character. He should be suspended for the rest of the season.

Rick Pitino, I mean.

Enjoy your bowl game Cards fans...ooops, my bad!

:cool:

WMR
12-21-2007, 08:57 AM
It could be a lack of talent left over from the Tubby regime (Kentucky starts sophomore walk-on Mark Coury) or it could be that Gillispie's new team hasn't exactly taken to its new coach's relentless and intense style. It may even be that the Wildcats have little to no depth due to numerous injuries.

I really, really, REALLY don't get all the hand-wringing about this season so far...

LOOK AT THE PLAYERS GILLISPIE IS BEING FORCED TO PUT ON THE COURT

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why this team is struggling.

In my opinion, Louisville's struggles are much "WORSE" than the ones Kentucky is enduring this season.

WMR
12-21-2007, 09:02 AM
While we are all wringing our hands here in Lexington, I might as well do my part to make sure that Louisville fans are also miserable as well....

http://blog.kentuckysportsradio.com/wp-content/uploads//2007/12/caracter.jpg

The local Cardinal beat writer perspective....

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071218/COLUMNISTS01/712180432/1002/SPORTS



...and now the national perspective :D

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10532738



Enjoy your bowl game Cards fans...ooops, my bad!

:cool:

Karma's a *****.

flyer85
12-21-2007, 12:16 PM
Billy is a good coach, no doubt about it. His problem is this team completely lacks what his teams are known for ... toughness. And to win playing his way will take a lot of toughness. It's why when Legion thought of transferring Billy told to not let the door hit him in the $$$ on the way out. He wants players totally committed.

I am not a UK fan so it is easy for me to say ... be patient.

BUTLER REDSFAN
12-22-2007, 11:10 AM
I don't really follow basketball that much but is it just me or does Kentucky lose a "Shocking" game in the 1st week or 2 of the season and then only lose once or twice the rest of the season every year?

Well, guess I was wrong this year.

WMR
12-29-2007, 01:19 AM
Kentucky is in its 105th season of basketball.

Kentucky is the all-time NCAA leader in wins with 1,953.

Kentucky leads the SEC from the foul line, shooting 74 percent (123-166).

The Wildcats rank first in the SEC in field goal percentage defense (.367).

Patrick Patterson has four double-doubles, tied for the second-highest total in the SEC. He ranks in the league’s top 10 in both scoring (7th, 17.2) and rebounding (2nd, 8.9).

Patterson is the first freshman since Sam Bowie (1979-80) to record two 20-10 games in a season.

Kentucky has used nine different starting line-ups through the first 10 games of the season. The only constant starter has been walk-on Mark Coury.

Blimpie
12-30-2007, 03:05 PM
Granted, the columnists for the Lexington Herald Leader have not always had a charmed relationship with some of the UK head coaches (in both major varsity sports), but the "relationship" that is evolving with Gillispie is bordering upon the absurd.

This article reminds me of when Hal Mumme first came to town. He always tried to out-think the room where the media was concerned. Gillispie appears to have the same disdain for the Lexington media that he has shown with several members of the UK athletic department. His answers end up coming off as nothing but childish.

A cerebral coach (like Bill Curry) could get away with this bantering because he was far more eloquent with his evasiveness. BCG is walking the tightrope between trying to show everyone he is the man in charge; yet, still claim that things are beyond his control where personnel decisions are concerned.

http://www.kentucky.com/285/story/271596.html


Posted on Sun, Dec. 30, 2007
If Gillispie has plan, it's invisible to naked eye
By John Clay
HERALD-LEADER SPORTS COLUMNIST

Surely the man has a plan.

Surely the man who turned Texas-El Paso from dregs to daunting, who transformed Texas A&M from a basketball black hole into a third-year terror has a method to the madness that is being practiced in his first season as Kentucky coach.

But I admit I'm not quite smart enough to figure it out.

Not yet, anyway.

It wasn't just the 81-72 loss to San Diego Saturday in Rupp Arena, the second time this season a double-digit, mid-major underdog walked out of Rupp Arena with, as San Diego Coach Bill Grier called it, "arguably the biggest win in our history."

It's the never-ending array of head-scratching decisions, baffling rotations and medical mysteries that have become a staple of UK Coach Billy Gillispie's first 11 games.

Example: Freshman A.J. Stewart does enough in practice since the team returned from its Christmas break to earn a spot in the starting lineup. Yet five minutes into the game, Stewart is called back to the bench, where he remains for the remainder of the game.

So what did Stewart do in the first five minutes to undo the apparently positive impression he made in practice?

"I just thought we could do a little bit better with the guys we had out on the court," said Gillispie.

Michael Porter starts at guard, plays seven minutes the first half, then never sees the floor the second half.

Then there's the Jodie Meeks medical mystery.

The sophomore scorer who played 35 minutes against Houston after returning from a stress fracture of the pelvis, missed the Tennessee Tech game Dec. 22 because of a strained hip flexor. Against San Diego, he sat out the first half, only to enter the game with 13:49 left in the second.

If Meeks was healthy enough to play, why didn't he play in the first half?

"I thought that's when we needed him," answered Gillispie.

So did Gillispie hope that he would not have to play the sophomore, but with UK losing he felt he needed Meeks' scoring punch?

"No," answered the coach. "I play him when he gets available. We need Jodie to be healthy and we need him to play when he can play, but he has not been available very often."

So was Meeks not available to play in the first half?

"I'm not gonna say on that," Gillispie said. "I said I'll play him when he's available. We need Jodie to be at his best because he's a very good player and we need him. Believe me, I would like to have him out there all the time, when he's capable, and when he's available, and when he's ready and all of those kinds of things."

Huh?

Gillispie isn't the first coach to butt heads with the guys wearing stethoscopes -- if that is what's going on here -- nor is it much of a secret he believes his team to be on the softer side. But isn't this a bit much?

Gillispie was "frustrated" when Meeks wasn't able to practice after being diagnosed with the stress fracture. Derrick Jasper, who underwent off-season microfracture knee surgery, has been touch-and-go for two weeks before finally making his season's debut Saturday.

Nearly two weeks ago, at Houston, seconds before tipoff, Patrick Patterson was declared out with a sprained ankle even though he had participated in both the shoot-around earlier in the day and warmups before the game.

Afterward, on his post-game show, Gillispie claimed he didn't know Patterson was hurt until right before the game. There was the same sort of uncertainty concerning Meeks on Saturday.

Question: Did the doctors tell you that Meeks was only available to play a little bit, so you were just trying to make the most of his minutes?

Gillispie: "I just played him when he's available."

Question: So he wasn't available at the beginning of the game?

Answer: "I just played him when he's available. I thought a couple of games ago he was going to be able to play and he became unavailable to me at the start. We thought he was going to be available and he wasn't available. I only play him when he's available."

Question: Is a doctor telling you this?

Gillispie: "Yes. It wasn't my decision."

Question: So the doctor said before the game he wasn't available?

Gillispie: "I only play him when he's available."

Surely there's a method to this madness, but at this rate, come March, it's Kentucky that won't be available.

WMR
12-30-2007, 03:49 PM
It's pretty clear what Gillispie is saying: When the Doctor says he is available he plays him. He's clearly pissed about the situation with the Doctor, which helps explain the way he keeps going back to "I only play him when he's available."

The Stewart thing was really head-scratching though. Did you see him do anything during the brief stint he was in the game that might have gotten him back in the doghouse?

WMR
12-30-2007, 03:53 PM
I do see what you're saying though... Billy G is sort of coming across as an ass to the local media... not sure what value he could see in getting the local sports media against him???

He has to be frustrated as hell with the players he has been forced to work with, especially our "Senior 'Leaders'" (haha).

stevekun
12-30-2007, 05:42 PM
Man its going to be fun to watch my UL Cards kick their butts...

WMR
12-30-2007, 05:48 PM
Man its going to be fun to watch my UL Cards kick their butts...

We're supposed to stink this season, what's your excuse?

WMR
12-30-2007, 05:48 PM
Oh WAIT: You're the CARDINALS. That explains it!

WVRed
12-30-2007, 08:40 PM
We're supposed to stink this season, what's your excuse?

That may be the only highlight of their season. Of course, the same can apply to San Diego and Gardner Webb.

I have to believe the problem with this team is attitude. Tubby was a great coach(as evidenced with the 1998 team), just never an excellent recruiter. The players that Gillispie is running out there now with the exception of Patterson, Meeks, and Jasper(all of which are battling injury) have a streetball mentality or an overall lack of basketball IQ that has cost Kentucky games.

Hopefully when Gillispie gets his own recruits in he will be in better shape.

WMR
12-30-2007, 09:20 PM
Funny that a player named "Caracter" ended up demonstrating an absolute lack of that attribute in their coach.

joshnky
12-30-2007, 10:34 PM
Funny that a player named "Caracter" ended up demonstrating an absolute lack of that attribute in their coach.

If Patrick Patterson missed curfew after being warned would you want him kicked off the team? Would you say Gillespie was showing a lack of character if he suspended him a week and then reinstated him?

I love the hatred UK fans harbor for Pitino.

WVRed
12-30-2007, 11:02 PM
If Patrick Patterson missed curfew after being warned would you want him kicked off the team? Would you say Gillespie was showing a lack of character if he suspended him a week and then reinstated him?

I love the hatred UK fans harbor for Pitino.

Yet they worship him in the same breath. It is sickening I know.

He came out after Tubby left and said he had no interest in the job while calling UK the "Roman Legion of College Basketball". That comment was on countless signatures on UK message boards.

stevekun
12-31-2007, 12:53 AM
UK fans will always be hanging on...its pretty pathetic. UK stinks,....won't even make the NIT...UL will be in the tourney.

WMR
12-31-2007, 12:57 AM
UK fans will always be hanging on...its pretty pathetic. UK stinks,....won't even make the NIT...UL will be in the tourney.

How many of those seven national championships did he win again?

My advice: Get all your shots in while you can b/c Billy has a monster class lined up for next season and the turn-around will be for good when it occurs.

stevekun
12-31-2007, 09:10 AM
How many of those seven national championships did he win again?

My advice: Get all your shots in while you can b/c Billy has a monster class lined up for next season and the turn-around will be for good when it occurs.

How many of those were you alive to see? Probably the ones with him.

As for your monster class...you guys have the 14th ranked class...UL has the 5th. So who has the monster class?

cumberlandreds
12-31-2007, 10:45 AM
Granted, the columnists for the Lexington Herald Leader have not always had a charmed relationship with some of the UK head coaches (in both major varsity sports), but the "relationship" that is evolving with Gillispie is bordering upon the absurd.

This article reminds me of when Hal Mumme first came to town. He always tried to out-think the room where the media was concerned. Gillispie appears to have the same disdain for the Lexington media that he has shown with several members of the UK athletic department. His answers end up coming off as nothing but childish.

A cerebral coach (like Bill Curry) could get away with this bantering because he was far more eloquent with his evasiveness. BCG is walking the tightrope between trying to show everyone he is the man in charge; yet, still claim that things are beyond his control where personnel decisions are concerned.

http://www.kentucky.com/285/story/271596.html

The comments concerning Meeks are baffling to say the least. On one hand BG is saying it was his decison to play him when he did but in another statement he says it was a doctor's decision. What????.... IMO,he wasn't going to play him because he had limited practices before this game. But paniced when the offense was stagnant and the game getting late, put him in to try and give the team a boost. Basically it just put him a position to be second guessed on a decision he couldn't really explain. What happened to Stewart and Porter after they started and played just a few minutes and didn't see the floor again? Really a lot of puzzling coaching decisions. You really have to begin to wonder about some things going on. IMO this team has not improved a bit from the first game. Especially defensively that is supposed to be BG's strong suit. Their help defense is still nearly non-existant and they are not creating turnovers into easy baskets. I don't know where this season is headed but right now it is on a wrong road that much is for sure. I honestly find it hard to find five more wins this season. This will be ugly and with BG doing his best to try to "control" the media it will get even uglier. It's still too early to say if BG will succeed or fail at UK but if early indications are a predictor it ain't looking too good.

flyer85
12-31-2007, 01:14 PM
Anyone know why Billy has never signed his contract(unless he did recently and I missed it)?

WMR
12-31-2007, 01:42 PM
How many of those were you alive to see? Probably the ones with him.

As for your monster class...you guys have the 14th ranked class...UL has the 5th. So who has the monster class?

I don't see what being alive has to do with appreciating your team's history??

Anyway, Steve, check out this thread, I really feel like I captured how most UK fans feel about Pitino (the logical ones, anyway).

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=863509&highlight=pitino#post863509

I don't hate Pitino, btw, but my posts in that thread explain that.

Let me know what you think.

flyer85
12-31-2007, 02:36 PM
Anyway, Steve, check out this thread, I really feel like I captured how most UK fans feel about Pitino (the logical ones, anyway). Fans will honor the legacy of his teams but Rick had to know he was going to lose the adoration of the UK faithful by taking the Louisville job.

WMR
12-31-2007, 02:39 PM
Fans will honor the legacy of his teams but Rick had to know he was going to lose the adoration of the UK faithful by taking the Louisville job.

Exactly.

jmac
01-01-2008, 05:34 PM
Man its going to be fun to watch my UL Cards kick their butts...

While Ky has played terribly the most of the season, U of L has done nothing to cause you to assume they can kick anyone's
butt. Case in point today vs UC.
Not exactly looking like world beaters yet again.
Congrats to UC !

Blimpie
01-01-2008, 08:10 PM
Anyone know why Billy has never signed his contract(unless he did recently and I missed it)?Apparently, a major sticking point remains the list of things that could lead to the termination of Gillispie's contract without penalty to UK. In what essentially amounts to a conduct clause, the two sides are miles apart on agreeing to the wording.

From some of the stories I have heard, Gillispie's camp wants only (1) a felony conviction or (2) major NCAA sanctions being handed to UK as a means of justifying his firing.

Obviously, UK is leaning towards including a wider scope of elements that could allow them to remove BCG without having to issue a buyout.

flyer85
01-02-2008, 12:39 AM
Apparently, a major sticking point remains the list of things that could lead to the termination of Gillispie's contract without penalty to UK. In what essentially amounts to a conduct clause, the two sides are miles apart on agreeing to the wording.

From some of the stories I have heard, Gillispie's camp wants only (1) a felony conviction or (2) major NCAA sanctions being handed to UK as a means of justifying his firing.

Obviously, UK is leaning towards including a wider scope of elements that could allow them to remove BCG without having to issue a buyout.
Billy probably ought to win some games. I assume UK could terminate him without any financial penalty if they decide they can do better with a new coach.

jmac
01-02-2008, 02:19 AM
Billy probably ought to win some games. I assume UK could terminate him without any financial penalty if they decide they can do better with a new coach.
When the majority of your minutes have gone to the likes of Coury,Porter, and Harris etc then there isnt alot you can do.
Billy Clyde has had me scratching my head a few times.At the same time I dont think Roy Williams could do much better with the group BG has had up to now.
Now if Meeks and Jasper stay in the lineup with PP then I think we will see some improvement the rest of the year. I still think the best they can do in SEC is 9-7 which right now would be 15 wins not counting the Uof L game which according to one poster in this thread, they will kick UK's butt anyway. :cool:

flyer85
01-02-2008, 10:51 AM
Now if Meeks and Jasper stay in the lineup with PP then I think we will see some improvement the rest of the year. I still think the best they can do in SEC is 9-7 which right now would be 15 wins not counting the Uof L game which according to one poster in this thread, they will kick UK's butt anyway. :cool:if they can't beat the likes of SD(who got drilled 2 days later by Marshall) at home I would say 9 SEC wins may be a big stretch. They look more like a 6-10(at best) type SEC team to me.

Blimpie
01-02-2008, 11:50 AM
Billy probably ought to win some games. I assume UK could terminate him without any financial penalty if they decide they can do better with a new coach.The way that the current contract "memo" is written, they could release him for poor hygene without risk of penalty.

Because BCG has no leverage whatsoever with his current arrangement, you are absolutely correct that winning will solve all problems....starting with Louisville in three days.

jmac
01-03-2008, 12:11 AM
if they can't beat the likes of SD(who got drilled 2 days later by Marshall) at home I would say 9 SEC wins may be a big stretch. They look more like a 6-10(at best) type SEC team to me.

You are correct except with Meeks possibly getting stronger and Jasper running the point allowing Bradley to move to the 2, I can see at least the "possibility" of getting a few upsets in the SEC.
All in all, I said the "best" would be 9-7 so a couple of extra losses could easily mean 7- 9 which would not surprise me.

cumberlandreds
01-03-2008, 09:41 AM
This article by Jerry Tipton pretty much sums up how difficult it will be for UK to make the NCAA's. By the RPI the best team they have beaten so far is Texas Southern. So it is really imperative they defeat UL Saturday and be at least second in the SEC East to get an at large bid. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact they probably won't be in the NCAA's this season and am just hoping they can somehow break even.
On a side note UL's RPI is only 101 so they have some ground to make up too.

http://www.kentucky.com/269/story/274777.html

jmac
01-12-2008, 02:48 PM
Anyone watching ?

WMR
01-12-2008, 02:53 PM
Who are these boys and what did they do with the Wildcats?!?!?!

:eek:

WMR
01-12-2008, 03:00 PM
:rockband: :rockband: :rockband:

JASPER GOT HIMSELF AN OUTSIDE SHOT!!!!!!!

WOO HOOOO

DAMN THIS IS SOME GOOD LOOKIN BILLY BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jmac
01-12-2008, 03:00 PM
Never thought I would say this, but sure glad Jasper is a wildcat.

WMR
01-12-2008, 03:01 PM
Never thought I would say this, but sure glad Jasper is a wildcat.

Why would you never think you would say that? He's a hell of a PG; always has been.

jmac
01-12-2008, 03:02 PM
Who are these boys and what did they do with the Wildcats?!?!?!

:eek:
Can we keep them ?

jmac
01-12-2008, 03:05 PM
Why would you never think you would say that? He's a hell of a PG; always has been.

Last season I just didnt care for his lack of offense but this year his ball distribution is welcomed !
Btw, some impressive looking rebounds.

WMR
01-12-2008, 03:07 PM
Yeah a lot of point guards come into college without much of an offensive game. He has clearly worked on his set shot over the summer.

WMR
01-12-2008, 03:07 PM
Damn Patterson is a beast.

WMR
01-12-2008, 03:08 PM
Finish strong going into halftime.

WMR
01-12-2008, 03:08 PM
NICE FIND BY RAMON HARRIS!!

:clap:

jmac
01-12-2008, 03:16 PM
I missed the pregame, is Meeks out again or is this another Billy Clyde coaches thingy ?

WMR
01-12-2008, 03:20 PM
THATS MY DAWG

THATS MY DAWG

THATS MY DAWG

:rockband::rockband::rockband:

jmac
01-12-2008, 03:48 PM
PP is making excellent comeback after UL game.
So far they have withstood the Vandy runs.:beerme:

jmac
01-12-2008, 03:52 PM
Another case of a coach waiting too long for tv timeout as lead went from 6 to 15 mighty quickly !
This is also another reason why I dont get into much college BB till conference starts.
While Vandy is good team, Ky having played likes of IU,UofL, UNC to name a few definitely shows today.

WMR
01-12-2008, 03:58 PM
Mr. Stallings whining to the refs.

:owned:

:bowrofl:

:dancingco

:ughmamoru

WVRed
01-12-2008, 04:09 PM
I think Vandy is ready to go on a run. Just hope Kentucky can withstand.

jmac
01-12-2008, 04:15 PM
I have the same feeling now as I did when Danny Graves would come in to pitch !

WMR
01-12-2008, 04:19 PM
This is killing my nerves!! :eek:

WMR
01-12-2008, 04:27 PM
The same damn ref has called 4 charges on us this half.

:rant:

:rant2:

:angry:

WMR
01-12-2008, 04:29 PM
Nice defense on Ogilpunk, Patrick.