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WMR
11-03-2007, 07:47 AM
I'll tell you... I'm normally fairly ambivalent when it comes to the NBA... this season, however, I am absolutely fascinated by the Boston Celtics.

Watching their season opening destruction of the Wizards tonight was, in complete honesty, perhaps the most entertaining and fun-to-watch NBA regular season game that I have ever seen. At least I can't think of one that I enjoyed more off-hand.

Posey didn't even play tonight. He will make some HUGE contributions this year for the Celtics.

Rondo was AMAZING. There's a reason Tubby Smith tracked "deflections" while he was at UK and why Rondo holds the single-season UK steals record...

And Kevin Garnett... what a classy guy. He insisted that Paul Pierce be the last one introduced for the game tonight. He prefers to schedule media interviews with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce along with him. There is absolutely NO chance of this team disintegrating or having poisonous chemistry. Garnett simply won't allow it.

He bought out an entire pre-screening of American Gangster as a team-bonding trip.

Charles Barkley said it best, "I am more excited for this NBA season than I have been for any season since I was playing. There are NO weak teams. There are no 'gimmes.' This will be a great season of NBA basketball."

I am just as stoked as Sir Charles.

Does anyone have a team that they absolutely love to death or have followed for a long time? I know Ed is a Cavaliers man.

I'm pulling for the Celtics to win the Championship.

HumnHilghtFreel
11-03-2007, 11:43 AM
I started out as a Hornets fan, I loved Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning and Muggsy Bogues back in the day. Then when they moved to New Orleans I got kind of mad at the team(I don't know why, I'm not from there) and opened my heart to the Cavs, since it was easier to follow them. I'd say I follow both of them pretty evenly now(even though I normally don't like when people claim multiple teams in a sport).

Anyways, I agree with Chuck, this should be a pretty fun season to watch.

Screwball
11-03-2007, 12:12 PM
I think the Celtics are a very entertaining team as well, but I pray to God that they don't win a championship. Nothing against them, but that would make the World Series, Superbowl (my crystal ball told me so), and NBA Title all belonging to Boston.

As for there being no gimme teams according to Chuck, Atlanta is finally not going to be terrible this year? What about the Knicks, Kings, and Grizzlies?

WMR
11-03-2007, 12:16 PM
Guess you didn't see Atlanta beat Dallas last night?

I guess his point was that while there are still a few "below average" teams, the overall talent has become much more evenly dispersed (between the Eastern and Western Conferences as well ... the Eastern Conference is no longer a doormat for the West).

WMR
11-03-2007, 12:17 PM
Yeah, somehow I manage to despise the SAWKS and Videotapers while not allowing that to poison rooting for the Celtics. :D

Tom Servo
11-03-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm a Nets man, but I really don't love the team. I mean I really like the franchise and whatnot, but as much as I try Carter, Kidd, and Jefferson don't make my heart flutter.

WMR
11-03-2007, 12:18 PM
I'm a Nets man, but I really don't love the team. I mean I really like the franchise and whatnot, but as much as I try Carter, Kidd, and Jefferson don't make my heart flutter.

Nenad is a player.

HumnHilghtFreel
11-03-2007, 12:19 PM
As for there being no gimme teams according to Chuck, Atlanta is finally not going to be terrible this year? What about the Knicks, Kings, and Grizzlies?

Atlanta has a really good young team, I have them just missing out on the playoffs in my rankings( Shameless Plug (http://yardbarker.com/nba/articles/My_NBA_Eastern_Conference_Rankings/33201) )

The Kings are going to be absolutely awful with Mike Bibby out for most the season. The T-Wolves and Sonics were thought to be pretty bad, but they look like they'll be competitive as they each have some pretty good young players. Knicks are a mess as an organization, but they can pull out a win on any given night.

Tom Servo
11-03-2007, 12:23 PM
Nenad is a player.
Nenad's pretty rocking, but I honestly haven't been able to completely forgive him for his awful play in the 06 playoffs.




Bostjan Nachbar 4 life.

WMR
11-03-2007, 12:26 PM
Nenad's pretty rocking, but I honestly haven't been able to completely forgive him for his awful play in the 06 playoffs.




Bostjan Nachbar 4 life.

:lol:

Where in Jersey do you live, Tom?

Do you go to any games?

OT: Have you been to Yankee Stadium?

Danny Serafini
11-03-2007, 12:45 PM
Guess you didn't see Atlanta beat Dallas last night?

I did! My Hawks might finally be coming to life. There's a lot of interesting young talent down there, although after years and years of high picks there should be by now. They actually could make a run at the #8 seed in the east this year.

Tom Servo
11-03-2007, 01:08 PM
:lol:

Where in Jersey do you live, Tom?

Do you go to any games?

OT: Have you been to Yankee Stadium?
I'm in Northern NJ, right next to Hackensack. I haven't been to a Nets game in a while, but I'd like to catch a few games this season if possible.


I have been to Yankee Stadium. I'd rather be able to go to the Great American Ball Park though. :thumbup:

WMR
11-03-2007, 01:24 PM
Have you ever been to a game at GABP?

Screwball
11-03-2007, 01:47 PM
Guess you didn't see Atlanta beat Dallas last night?




Atlanta has a really good young team, I have them just missing out on the playoffs in my rankings


Fair enough. I really did mean my post as a question rather than the shot at Barkley's statement that it came across. I like to see bad teams/franchises finally become good. Lord knows that as a Bengals and Reds fan I can identify with the fanbases.

Speaking of, I'll admit I've jumped on the Cavs bandwagon. Although, in my defense it started during last year's preseason as my old roomate got me interested (he follows them like we follow the Reds, which is to say religiously). Rooting for and watching LeBron James is one of the most entertaining experiences I've had watching sports - and it makes for a good drinking game as well :thumbup:.

TeamSelig
11-03-2007, 10:36 PM
How 'bout my Pacers? :)

GoReds33
11-04-2007, 12:12 AM
How 'bout my Pacers? :)I like the Pacers, but I don't think I will ever forgive them for dumping James White.:)

Unassisted
11-04-2007, 12:18 AM
Charles Barkley said it best, "I am more excited for this NBA season than I have been for any season since I was playing. There are NO weak teams. There are no 'gimmes.' This will be a great season of NBA basketball."
I guess the Kings didn't get that memo about the gimmies the other night when they played the Spurs at Arco. That game was not much of a challenge for the champs, who are now 3-0.

The Kings are indicative of what the local NBA beat writers have been saying about most of the teams in the West... that this looks to be a down year for them. Some examples: Kobe's machinations are keeping the Lakers from making progress. Players in Dallas are said to be tiring of Avery Johnson's intensity. The Clippers may have peaked. Greg Oden's injury will keep Portland from moving up the ladder.

The beat writers here only seem to be saying good things about Houston... namely that they're finally surrounding Yao with some quality guys who compliment him.

On another note, if I was a Cavs fan, I'd be worried about how that team will do without Varejao.

TeamSelig
11-04-2007, 01:58 PM
I think it is hilarious that they haven't signed Varejeo. I hope he sits the year out, and then ends up getting 1/4th of what he is asking for. You don't give ten million to high energy hustle players with no actual talent.

Screwball
11-04-2007, 02:55 PM
I think it is hilarious that they haven't signed Varejeo. I hope he sits the year out, and then ends up getting 1/4th of what he is asking for. You don't give ten million to high energy hustle players with no actual talent.

I don't think you're giving him enough credit. Varejeo is a great rebounder - especially on the offensive boards. The ability to get 2nd and 3rd chances is really demoralizing to the other team. Is he worth 10 million? Probly not. But he still has plenty of value and is very important to the Cavs title hopes.

TeamSelig
11-04-2007, 03:33 PM
He is a little under 6-6 player.

Good guy to have off the bench, no doubt. Important to their team because they really don't have alot of depth.

I'd give him 3-4 million at the most.

MasonBuzz3
11-05-2007, 11:28 PM
I would give Andy up to the $7 mil that the Cavs are offering. He is actually one of the most important players on the Cavs roster. The cavs can not keep playing Z and Gooden 37+ min a game, and D. Jones 2 is not a quality option. Along with Snow, Andy is one of the only good defenders on the Cavs roster. You might think that he flops on every play, and he does flop, but check the stats he is a top flight defender. and he is only 25.

IowaRed
11-06-2007, 09:33 AM
I've been a Spurs fan ever since they joined the NBA, that was 76/77. I was able to pick up WOAI in San Antonio at night and listened to The Iceman, Larry Kenon, James Silas, et al on many cold Iowa winter nights. I'm not as dedicated as I have been to the Reds but the Spurs recent success has eased my Reds pain a little.

Roy Tucker
11-06-2007, 10:13 AM
I've been an NBA fan as long as I've been a Reds fan (which is a long time).

I stopped being a passionate fan when the Royals moved to KC/Omaha, but I like to watch the pro game. The quality of play in the NBA has made a comeback in the last 3-5 years (after the rules makers made thuggery difficult) and is a fun game to watch again.

The Celtics looks like a nice story but lets see where they are at injury- and energy-wise next spring. I think the Cavs are in for a tough season. I can't see the Lakers trading Kobe but he needs to be, both for him and the team. And the NBA champ will come from out west again. I love to watch the Mavs, Spurs, Suns, and Rockets all go at it. Fun teams to watch and they play great basketball.

dabvu2498
11-06-2007, 10:23 AM
Call me crazy, but I think the Nets might be the team to beat in the East, particularly if Krstic is healthy. I think Richard Jefferson may be the NBA MVP at the end of the season.

HotCorner
11-06-2007, 10:25 AM
Mavs win a tough one against the Rockets. Diop and JET stepped up huge last night.

MaineRed
11-06-2007, 11:12 AM
Call me crazy, but I think the Nets might be the team to beat in the East, particularly if Krstic is healthy. I think Richard Jefferson may be the NBA MVP at the end of the season.

You're crazy!

The Nets are old (Kidd), unmotivated (Carter) and injury prone (RJ and Krstic).

They have already lost to Toronto by 37 this season.

The Nets will be lucky to make the play-offs.

TeamSelig
11-06-2007, 03:03 PM
If injuries go easy on the Nets, they are a good team. The past few years they haven't won anything major mainly because of having the Collins' as their center. They picked up Magloire who I'd say is about average, which is a huge upgrade. And didn't they draft Sean Williams, or am I mistaken?

MaineRed
11-06-2007, 03:15 PM
Jamal Magloire is one of those guys that people think is good while he is actually awful. In 3 games thus far he is averaging 2.7 points and 2.7 rebounds. I wouldn't exactly call it a huge upgrade.

What adjective would you use if they signed Dwight Howard to replace Collins? Now that would be a HUGE upgrade.

In fact Collins remains on the team and is getting more time than Magloire. Obviously Lawerence Frank doesn't see what you and others see in Magloire.

TeamSelig
11-06-2007, 03:26 PM
Hmm.. maybe I am overrating Magloire. Then again, I am a huge UK fan :) Small sample size though... It's kinda weird that Collins is receiving more PT, as he is one of the worst centers in the league IMO.

MaineRed
11-06-2007, 04:29 PM
Yeah it is a small sample size but Magloire wasn't very good last year either. His best season was 03-04 and he has been going backwards in the major stat categories ever since. Based on his trends he is bound to average less than 6 points and 4 rebound this season.

klw
11-08-2007, 11:58 AM
Wow the Celtics looked good vs Denver last night. They ended up winning only by 26 but it wasn't that close. Up by 39 at the half (77-38) and the big three were all out by early in the 4th. Very impressive Celtics, very bland looking Nuggets.

NJReds
11-08-2007, 02:36 PM
Wow the Celtics looked good vs Denver last night. They ended up winning only by 26 but it wasn't that close. Up by 39 at the half (77-38) and the big three were all out by early in the 4th. Very impressive Celtics, very bland looking Nuggets.

In fairness to the Nuggets, they played the night before in NY in a game that was a track meet at times (119-112, NY won). I didn't think that they'd have a shot last night in Boston.

NJReds
11-08-2007, 02:37 PM
The Atlanta Hawks have defeated Dallas and Phoenix so far this year.

MaineRed
11-08-2007, 04:26 PM
In fairness to the Nuggets, they played the night before in NY in a game that was a track meet at times (119-112, NY won). I didn't think that they'd have a shot last night in Boston.

Playing on back to back nights is part of life in the NBA. On Monday San Antonio rested as Dallas and Houston played. The next night Houston beat San Antonio.

Houston can beat the Spurs on the second of a back to back but you are making excuses for Denver because they played the Knicks the night before?

Denver didn't have a shot because Boston has the best trio of offensive weapons that the NBA has seen in a long, long, long time.

Playing the night before obviously isn't a help. But it is no reason to fall behind by 40 at the half.

NJReds
11-08-2007, 05:33 PM
Playing on back to back nights is part of life in the NBA. On Monday San Antonio rested as Dallas and Houston played. The next night Houston beat San Antonio.

Did you watch the Knicks-Nuggets game? I'm guessing no. It was an extremely intense game. A track meet. The Nuggets looked gassed at the end of the game. When the announcers noted that the Nuggets were flying up to Boston that night for a game tomorrow, I knew they'd get blown out. Boston is a quality team.

Denver played at home Sunday. Flew cross country to New York on Monday. Played the Knicks on Tuesday, flew to Boston on Tuesday night and played Boston on Wednesday.

Houston played at Dallas, which is a cab ride away, and then beat San Antonio at home the next night. There is a slight difference.

I wasn't disrespecting the Celtics at all.

MaineRed
11-08-2007, 07:29 PM
Not sure why a 240 mile journey from Dallas to Houston is a cab ride while 215 miles between Boston and New York requires a plane?

NJReds
11-09-2007, 10:33 AM
Not sure why a 240 mile journey from Dallas to Houston is a cab ride while 215 miles between Boston and New York requires a plane?

I'm talking about the flight from Denver to NY. But I guess if you don't genuflect to all Boston sports teams these days, you offend all New Englanders. ;)

I'm off to by a Taylor Twellman fathead poster.

TeamSelig
11-09-2007, 10:42 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/49083/20071109/magliore_thrives_with_more_minutes/

;) Good timing for me huh?

MaineRed
11-09-2007, 01:20 PM
I'm talking about the flight from Denver to NY. But I guess if you don't genuflect to all Boston sports teams these days, you offend all New Englanders. ;)

I'm off to by a Taylor Twellman fathead poster.

Bottom line, you called the flight to Boston a flight. You then turned around and called a longer trip, a cab ride.

So the team you are backing, had to go thru the trouble of going on a plane.

But the Rockets, the team I said had to go through the same thing, all they had to do was find their wife for the short car ride home.

The flight from Denver to New York has nothing to do with this and you know that. You had no idea how far it was between Boston and New York OR Houston and Dallas and IMO you decided the Texas cities were closer because they are in the same state.

I get that Denver was tired and that Melo was probably out shooting people on Monday night on his way home from Scores. But that isn't my problem. These guys get paid to play basketball. They get paid to take care of themselves. The Celtics have had to shake off jetlag from a preseason trip to Europe. When football or baseball teams do this all we hear about is how long it takes to get back in sync upon returning home. The Celtics lost their sixth man early in the game to back spasms. Doc Rivers dad just died and he hasn't been around as much. I could go on. Its called adversity. There is a reason that teams coming off a game the night before don't get a head start.

The Celtics have lost more games than I could count playing the second of the back to back. They usually play at home on Friday and then have to play on the road on Saturday. I'm sure the Celtics will lose plenty of games this season in this situation and no Celtic fan I know will use it as a crutch.

Boston is better than Denver. Maybe not 40 first half points better but better. That is why they won. Easily. You called the Knick game a hard fought battle. Go ask Denver who gave them the tougher time.

BTW, did you watch that Knick vs Denever game, knowing Denver would lose after that brutal flight from Colorado?

MaineRed
11-10-2007, 11:10 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/49083/20071109/magliore_thrives_with_more_minutes/

;) Good timing for me huh?

Hopefully you were kidding. Just watched the Celtics and Nets and I never once noticed Jamal. He finished with no points and 2 rebounds. He still stinks.

Celtics are 5-0.

NJReds
11-11-2007, 12:08 PM
Bottom line, you called the flight to Boston a flight. You then turned around and called a longer trip, a cab ride.

So the team you are backing, had to go thru the trouble of going on a plane.


Bottom line. I'm a Knicks fan who thought that Denver would have no chance beating a quality team like Boston the night after an extremely high-tempo game that they had in NY. I thought they'd get blown out, in fact. And I was right. That's it...end of story. You like to start fights in every single thread, or so it seems.

The team I was backing is awful, and will be until the Dolans relinquish ownership. I don't assume that they'll win any game that they're in. But once again, you forgo facts in search of an internet debate.

Boston is the best team in the NBA. They should just give them the trophy now. I'll be shocked if they don't go undefeated.

klw
11-11-2007, 10:53 PM
Boston is the best team in the NBA. They should just give them the trophy now. I'll be shocked if they don't go undefeated.
Is that sarcasm?:) I think you point about back to backs was valid even if it got lost in the minutia of travel details. a good example is the Celtics who lost some steam against the nets at the end of the second game in a back to back.

HumnHilghtFreel
11-12-2007, 09:36 AM
Something to take note of when considering Boston's team. KG, Pierce and Allen are all playing a TON of minutes. Each is right about at 40 MPG right now.

If they continue to do this through the entire year, and more than likely they will because of how sad their bench is, it's going to have a big impact on them come playoff time.

On the other end of the spectrum, look at the Spurs. Tony parker is leading the team in minutes at 35 per game, and he's a young guy that shouldn't be running out of steam towards the end anyway. As much as I don't really like the Spurs, I have to respect how incredibly well-run they are.

15fan
11-12-2007, 09:51 AM
Going to see the Spurs when they roll into town next week. WFU alumni group has arranged a deal where we'll get into Philips around 5:00 pm and get to check out the shoot-around, etc. They did it last year when Chris Paul & the Hornets were in town last year, and CP3 spent about 45 minutes signing autographs & posing for pictures for fellow Deac fans.

and for all this talk about the Hawks, just imagine how good they'd be if they had taken either Chris Paul or Deron Williams a couple of years ago instead of Marvin Williams. Either of those guys running with Joe Johnson in the backcourt would be lethal. And I still say they screwed themselves by not taking Mike Conley in the most recent draft. There hasn't been a decent PG in this town since Mookie Blaylock.

As for the way the season will unfold, I'll gaze into my crystal ball and speculate that folks will be talking about Kobe, they new Garnett dynasty in Boston, and all sorts of flashy other stuff all year long. The Spurs will yet again fly under the radar, and be the last team standing when the final buzzer sounds.

Tim is the man.

MaineRed
11-12-2007, 10:21 AM
Something to take note of when considering Boston's team. KG, Pierce and Allen are all playing a TON of minutes. Each is right about at 40 MPG right now.

If they continue to do this through the entire year, and more than likely they will because of how sad their bench is, it's going to have a big impact on them come playoff time.

The main reason for the big minutes has been James Posey not playing in 3 of the 5 games. Most of the 20 minutes or so he will play will likely be split between the 3 guys mentioned above. That would reduce a 40 minute workload down to around 35.

They've also got Tony Allen who is playing but is slowly working back from knee surgery. As the season goes along he will be able to play more minutes. And Big Baby has only been around for 5 games but he is coming along and will likely see more minutes.

I know it is has become the in thing to do, to criticize the Boston bench but if their bench is sad, could you give a couple of examples of Eastern Conference teams who don't have sad benches? Pretty much every team has a sad bench but for some reason it has become popular to only point it out only in regards to the team with the most talent in their starting five.

Why is nobody saying the Wizards have no bench? Or the Knicks? Or the Nets? Or the Heat? Or the Cavs? Take away David Lee and I question if these teams can combined to come up with 3 players better than Tony Allen, Eddie House and James Posey.

Here is an easy link to every teams roster. I'd love to know (being serious) the names of some Eastern teams with benches that aren't "sad":

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams

15fan, no argument on the Spurs. But they have won 4 titles and have yet to win one back to back.

MasonBuzz3
11-12-2007, 05:47 PM
when the cavs are at full strength, their bench is not sad. we'll just say that their starting guards are Pavlovic and Hughes. Leaving Gibson on the bench to provide a little scoring spark. The other backup guards are Devin Brown, Eric Snow, Damon Jones, and Shannon Brown. Devin Brown is good ballplayer who doesnt really excel at one aspect but is good at all, and versitile. For what Snow lacks in the offensive game, he is a top notch defender and almost a coach on the floor/bench. I can't really stand Jones being on the team, but he still can shoot the 3. The backup big men would be Varejao (when signed), Dwayne Jones, Cedric Simmons, Donny Marshall, Ira Newble, and Demetrious Nichols(will be in NBDL when Varejao signs). Newble is a pretty bad player, but is adequate on the defensive end and as LBJ's backup he doesnt see many minutes. Varejao could start for many teams and his energy is unmatched coming off the bench. Jones and Simmons are young and talented bigs that can provide some athletic ability off of the bench. Marshall is getting old but can still hit the occasional 3.
The Cavs are built on defense and rebounding, and that is what the bench consists of.

MaineRed
11-12-2007, 08:03 PM
James Posey, Tony Allen and Eddie House would all be the one of the best options off the bench (if they weren't starting) if they were on the Cavs. All 3 averaged more points than anyone you listed and Allen and Posey are standout defensive players. Now they have added Big Baby Davis to the mix and he is doing his best to earn more PT.

Cav fans would love Eddie House. He is one of those guys that pretty much does not miss when left alone and on the Celtics he is being left alone a lot. Celtic fans are already comparing him to Vinnie Microwave Johnson.

TeamSelig
11-12-2007, 08:35 PM
Toronto has a better bench: A. Bargnani, C. Delfino, J. Calderon, J. Dixon
Bulls have a better bench: A. Nocioni, J. Smith, T. Sefolosha, C. Duhon, J. Noah

Miami's bench isn't that bad... Zo, D. Cook, M. Blount, and Penny.
New Jersey? It isn't THAT bad. Antione Wright and B. Nachbar are great bench players. Player coach Darrell Armstrong, potential filled Sean Williams are two small pieces, but could always come in for a contribution. Even their big stiff Magloire is >>>> than Scot Pollard.

I'd also pick Lee, Balkman, and Nate over Posey, Allen, House.

Bell, Simmons, and Villanueva isn't great, but not sad.

I'll give you that their bench isn't THAT bad, but depth is not on their side.

MaineRed
11-12-2007, 09:00 PM
Only problem is, Bargnani is a starter for Toronto.

I'm not saying Boston has a BETTER bench than these other teams. I'm saying if Boston has a sad bench then so does everyone else.

Zo, Blount and Penny are awful. Boston had Blount and he was nicknamed "Mittens" because he can't catch a cold. Penny hasn't played in years. Miami stinks.

How is that Wright and Nachbar are GREAT bench players and James Posey, Eddie House and Tony Allen aren't? Allen averaged 11.5 PPG last season. Posey is a solid two way contributor that can guard any position on the floor and House is a money shooter. But they don't match up with Antoine Wright and Nachbar?

Depth isn't on their side? Name more than 3 players on the Kobe-Shaq championsihp team. Name the Bulls 9th and 10th men from when Jordan was around. The 86 Celtcis, before you were born had the Big 3, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, an aging Bill Walton and a bunch of scrubs that might not crack the Celtics rotation if they were playing today.

Depth? You need 8 guys to win. Maybe 9. Nobody is winning a championship because Jamal Magloire is better than Scott Pollard. That is as irrelevant to the conversation as anything yo could come up with. The talent at the top is what matters and whether or not you can play D. Nobody is winning a title because they come at you in waves. Teams have a core of 8 guys and Boston's is as good as anyone.

But again I am not here to argue the Celtics are some great force that we should all bow to. I just think the bench is not as bad as people make it out to be when compared to other teams. I don't think they have the best bench. But I don't think anyone has a good bench either. Especially teams like Miami, New York, New Jersey and Milwaukee. There are some decent bench options out there but I have yet to hear anyone actually credit a team without being pressed for having a good bench. Nobody has feared a teams bench since the Pistons were winning back to back titles in the late 80s.

TeamSelig
11-13-2007, 12:42 PM
Bargnani was demoted, and is currently a bench player.

Their center is Kendrick Perkins and Scot Pollard on the same team. That is no big man depth. Scalabrine is their first PF off the bench.

Posey is a good player.. attitude problems, but not up there with Rasheed Wallace or Ron Artest. Tony Allen has potential to be a good player, not a starter ever, but a decent back up IF his knee holds up. Eddie House isn't even really that good. You are over-rating your own teams players.

Also, are we not talking about benches? It is relevant that Magloire is better than Pollard, considering Pollard comes off your bench.

Boston is good and you won't find where I've said anything different on here. Just simply said that I can see where they get criticized for their bench.

They don't have a good back up big. Have they been playing KG at center and going with a small lineup? Scalabrine really isn't very good at all as a backup PF. They don't have a true back up point guard... Allen is more of a combo guard. I wouldn't worry about the backup PG situation too much though.

MaineRed
11-13-2007, 01:03 PM
Eddie House is averaging over 11 PPG. How that is not good for a bench player I am not sure.

Why does it not matter that Magloire might be better than Pollard? Because Pollard doesn't even play. Magloire was supposedly signed to solve the Nets Center problem. Oops. The reason he is on the bench is because he is so bad that Frank can't start him which was the plan, I thought?

Pollard was brought in to be a goon and to play in emergencies. And what I meant about him being irrelevant to the conversation was that he is burried on the bench. He is the 10th man. That is not where teams store their bench strength.

Do you have any links to stories that might back up the James Posey attitude problem allegations?

I too can understand why they get criticized for their bench. But you can pick apart the benches of most teams the way you just did Boston. That is my beef. I follow the NBA quite closely and no other teams are getting slammed for their bad benches when IMO there are plenty of them out there, even with the good teams. The Nets have a two man bench with no decent bigs. The Cavs have no decent bigs on their bench. Same with most teams besides New York who has David Lee. After him no post players who come off the bench are going to scare anyone.

It is very easy rag on bench players in the NBA as there simply aren't many good ones. If you want to defend a guy you can say he can shoot, or he can play D or he can rebound but nobody has a combination of players who can do it all. Nobody. I say Eddie House can shoot and I overrate him. But Cleveland has all the bench help they need becauuse of guys like Damon Jones?

Have you seen the Celtics play this season, TS? If not, watch Eddie House and tell me he isn't very good and can't help the Celtics. Your failing to realize how much guys improve when they play with better players. The Celtic situation was built for House.

Puffy
11-13-2007, 01:14 PM
Bottom line. I'm a Knicks fan who thought that Denver would have no chance beating a quality team like Boston the night after an extremely high-tempo game that they had in NY. I thought they'd get blown out, in fact. And I was right. That's it...end of story. You like to start fights in every single thread, or so it seems.

The team I was backing is awful, and will be until the Dolans relinquish ownership. I don't assume that they'll win any game that they're in. But once again, you forgo facts in search of an internet debate.



Back in 1978, Pete Rozalle made the NY Giants (who had warring owners at the time) hire George Young. Simms, LT, Parcells, and Banks followed and the Giants became relevant.

I'm hoping Stern will step in and force Dolan to sell, because the NBA is better with a good Knick team (along with a good Boston team, a good Laker team, Chicago - the NBA thrives on big cities, but especially New York) and NY will never be any good as long as the putz that is Dolan owns them.

And don't even get me started again on Isiah....

TeamSelig
11-13-2007, 03:34 PM
You said you follow the NBA so you should already know about Posey and his anger issues.

As for House, since when is PPG directly & solely related to how good a player is? Thats like only looking at BA in baseball. You are also taking into account of just five games played. With a 19 pt game to bolster his average. In those five games he is shooting at a higher % than he ever has in his life. 10% higher for FG% and almost the same for 3PT% which is alot for the NBA. He is playing with some great players so I understand that, but I doubt he keeps it up throughout the whole season. Plus, he is a guard, but is only averaging 1.7 APG in his 7 year career. He was selected in the 2nd round... he's been waived like 2 or 3 times already. Not resigned a couple times already. He is a journey man player, and always has been, so how is he such a great player?

Boston gets crapped on for their bench because like I said, their frontcourt consists of:

Starter: K. Perkins (NOT a starter to begin with)
Starter: KG (we all know how good he is, its no secret)

Coming off the bench:

Brian Scalabrine - just 6'9" and not with a big body either, not much of a rebounder, shot blcoker, or really anything you want in a big (plus he has red hair)

Glen Davis - he is a rookie with really limited potential, fat, and if he ever does become something I doubt it begins this season

Scot Pollard - you said he is an emergency but it is an emergency when you are running out Scalabrine and Davis. Doesn't play much like you said, but 6-7 minutes a game is 6-7 minutes too many.

Leon Powe - doesn't belong on an NBA roster

Obviously if any teams best players get injured, they will really be hurting, but even if Perkins who really shouldn't be a starter, or even Scalabrine goes down, Boston will really be hurting.

And you keep taking away the Knicks 6th man and say that their bench sucks. Okay, minus Posey and the rest of the bench would make for a mediocre D-league team.

The Celtics have no depth at positions they are weak at. I love Rondo to death and he has done a pretty good job, but I think you still need a decent back up in case he struggles. Eddie House? OK, he is a bench player, but I'm not so sure he would be able to platoon or start a few games here and there (minor, nagging injuries, etc.) You have Ray Allen who is getting up there in the age department, and his back up just came off knee surgery. You are fine at SF with Pierce and Posey. KG and anyone on the planet would make for an OK PF rotation. At center you have a guy who shouldn't be starting followed by guys who shouldn't be on NBA rosters.

It's very simple and I'm not sure why you are in denial about it.

MaineRed
11-13-2007, 04:19 PM
Again you could break down and use the same analysis on most teams in the league. Who does Detroit have for any size on their bench? Who does New Jersey have? And plese don't say Magloire. Or Cleveland? Or Washington? Or Orlando? Or anyone really. The back-up C in Orlando is Adonial Foyle. In Charlotte it is Ryan Hollins. In Cleveland they don't even really have one. Same with Washington. Both of these teams benches DO look like D league squads and that is without taking anyone away.

Kendrick Perkins isn't an NBA starter? And why is this? He just turned 23 the other day and he has started 101 games in his career. But he isn't a starter? Then who is?

It obviosly is not an emergency to run out Scalabrine and Davis. They play for a team that is 5-0. Have you seen Big Baby play? The guy might be "Fat" but he could beat you in a foot race. And limited potential? The guy has serious game, dribbling, passing, shooting and rebounding. Limited? The six points and eight boards he had the other night would indicate otherwise. And lets be honest if we are going to glorify guys like Varejao who come of the bench and put up 6 and 6 then 6 and 8 is impressive.

You keep going back to Pollard and this time have claimed he plays 6-7 minutes per game. NOT TRUE. He has played 13 minutes total this season and there have been 5 games. He plays 6.5 minutes per of games he actually gets into. And he is the 10th or 11th man. Go investigate who San Antonio and Phoenix use as their 10th man. See who the Suns back-up C is. Or the Spurs back-up PF. Detroit doesn't even have a center in their starting line-up. Where is the critism of them? Somehow it means Boston is a lesser team with the 7 foot KG playing center but Detroit can get away with playing McDyess there? A guy the same height as Brian Scalabrine. Seriously, where is the critism of Detroit and their lack of depth at the C position? And they are probably Boston's only real competition in the East. At least it looks that way now. So to win the championship they probably have to get by a team with no starting center at all and a team that has two guys named Oberto and Elson playing C. Neither guy is any better than Perkins. You can start criticizng the Spurs any time.

I have no idea what you are talking about with Posey. I have never heard anything of these Posey anger issues you talk about. Nothing comes up on google either. And besides, Jason Kidd used to beat his wife. Does it mean the Nets have a bunch of scrubs in their starting line-up?

And I never said House was a great player? I wanted to know how it was determined that he wasn't very good, which is what you said. Why do you have to keep turning everything around? Someone says Boston has a sad bench, I ask who doesn't and that is turned into me thinking Boston has a great bench. You say House sucks, I say he doesn't and now you are back claiming I said he was great?

I know people are going to think Boston's bench stinks and that they don't have a back-up C or a back-up PG but very few teams do. The fact that nobody can come up with a bench that is actually good proves my point. Not that Boston has the best bench or even a good bench, just that when considering every other team, their bench is not bad. Does it have holes? Show me one that doesn't. Show me a team that doesn't have a Scott Pollard waving the towel for them? The same Scott Pollard who waved a towel as Cleveland's back-up C last season.

TeamSelig
11-13-2007, 05:15 PM
Perkins was a starter on a Boston team last year that purposely tanked. And by him not being a starter I mean, a good or serviceable one.

Once again you take into account of the stats of this year after five games.

McDyess is a bruiser, Scalabrine is a wimpy white guy with red hair. Besides, Sheed guards the opposing centers, or he used to at least.

And I guess I missed where Big Fat Baby went from overweight suspect to can't miss prospect from being drafted until now. Strange how his stock has rose from where he wasn't a top pick, or anything close to a top pick.

Orlando isn't supposed to be the next NBA champion like the Celtics have already been given credit for. They have no big man at all, and I'm just going to assume that they will make some sort of trade, otherwise they won't go far.

So you are saying that the Spurs don't have a better bench than the C's?

I've repeatedly told you teams with benches that are better than the Cetlics. You continue to ignore this.

Antoinie Wright, Bostan Nachbar, Jason Collins/Jamal Magloire/Sean Williams is better.
Andrea Bargnani, Carlos Delfino, Jose Calderon, Juan Dixon
Daniel Gibson, A. Pavlovic, and Anderson Varejeo (if he will ever resign)

Jeez I'd almost rather have the Pacers bench of Troy Murphy/Jeff Foster, Shawne Williams, Marquis Daniels, and Ike Diogu. But I'm not going to go through every team that has a better bench.

As for Posey, he has been suspended in the PLAYOFFS for repeatedly going after players, and trying to hurt them.

Bulls v. Heat Dec. game - attacked Luol Deng
Bulls v. Heat 06-07 season opener - hit Tyrus Thomas in the face, broke his nose
Bulls v. Heat '06 playoffs - attacked Kirk Hinrich

He was suspended a game this year for reckless driving/driving drunk back in April. He was inactivated for showing up out of shape, and not having a low enough body fat % by Riley.

Definitely attitude problems.

NJReds
11-13-2007, 05:23 PM
Back in 1978, Pete Rozalle made the NY Giants (who had warring owners at the time) hire George Young. Simms, LT, Parcells, and Banks followed and the Giants became relevant.

I'm hoping Stern will step in and force Dolan to sell, because the NBA is better with a good Knick team (along with a good Boston team, a good Laker team, Chicago - the NBA thrives on big cities, but especially New York) and NY will never be any good as long as the putz that is Dolan owns them.

And don't even get me started again on Isiah....

Well, Marbury was demoted as a starter, and did not show up to the shootaround in Phoenix today. They don't know if he'll show for the game.

MaineRed
11-13-2007, 07:37 PM
So you are saying that the Spurs don't have a better bench than the C's?

I've repeatedly told you teams with benches that are better than the Cetlics. You continue to ignore this.

Antoinie Wright, Bostan Nachbar, Jason Collins/Jamal Magloire/Sean Williams is better.
Andrea Bargnani, Carlos Delfino, Jose Calderon, Juan Dixon
Daniel Gibson, A. Pavlovic, and Anderson Varejeo (if he will ever resign)

Are you seriously telling me that if Boston had these benches instead of the bench they have that you would saying they have a championship bench? I don't believe that. You are ripping Boston for having no tough guys on their bench and then you post the New Jersey and Toronto benches? The players you listed from Toronto are all PGs and then Bargnani who must be struggling if he has been taken from the starting line-up. This on a team that has Rasho Nesterovic starting for them. Yikes.

Gibson starts for Cleveland and Pavlovic has started 3 games and he just signed. So the only guy you listed who is actually a bench player is the guy who is hanging out in Brazil at the moment. Now that is a bad bench.

Not sure what the love affair is abouot with Jersey. Magloire is so bad he hardly plays. Collins has set futility records. This team doesn't have a decent big on the team, let alone the second unit.

I've asked you to come up with some good benches and you keep posting garbage. These aren't the better benches in baskeball. They are your typical run of the mill benches, the same thing Boston has.

I do think the Spurs have a better bench and that shouldn't be surprsing because I have never come even close to implying or saying that they don't. All I've said is that Boston doesn't have the worst nor ist their's any different than your average teams second unit. By listing the players you keep listing you are proving it.


McDyess is a bruiser, Scalabrine is a wimpy white guy with red hair. Besides, Sheed guards the opposing centers, or he used to at least.

This would be absolutely 100 fine and I see nothing wrong with it. Except earlier it seemed to be a problem that the taller, just as good, probably better defensive player in KG was playing center. I guess I just don't understand how this is a problem for Boton but not Detroit.


And I guess I missed where Big Fat Baby went from overweight suspect to can't miss prospect from being drafted until now. Strange how his stock has rose from where he wasn't a top pick, or anything close to a top pick.

Right, because nobody ever slips through the cracks unless you are in on it. Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Mo Wiliams, Anderson Varejao, Monta Ellis, Luke Walton, Jason Kapono, Mehmet Okur and Bobby Simmons have gone in the second round this decade.

Again you act like I said Big Baby was the lock for the HOF when I was simply saying he has the talent and is starting to show it, to be a decent option off the bench. Especially playing with 3 perennial all stars. As you can see from the list above, second rounders can and do succeed.

Big Baby is "fat". He is a huge guy. But he also runs like a deer. Have you ever seen him play? He is a great ballhandler for someone his size and his passing is off the charts. No look passes are pretty frequent in his repetoire. I honestly can't imagine that you have seen much of him to keep calling him "fat" since it really doesn't mean a whole lot or to call him "limited" which is insane.

As for Posey, he has been suspended in the PLAYOFFS for repeatedly going after players, and trying to hurt them.

And this makes him a bad bench option because .......

Sounds like the opposite of the wimpy Brian Scalabrine. If you want to believe that there is ONE team out there that would not love to have James Posey coming off their bench, I totally disagree. Posey is one of the better two way players (not just scorers) who doesn't start in the NBA. There is no indication of any attitude or anger management problem. He was/is his teams enforcerer and there has been plenty of bad blood between the Bulls and Heat. Those example are like saying Larry Bird had an attitude problem because he once punched Bill Laimbeer.

BTW, Eddie House leads all NBA bench players in +/- and no stat is a better indicator of a players value to his team. When House enters games, the lead grows. When Brian Scalabrine enters the game, the lead grows. He is in the top 50 of the entire league in +/-.

If the Celtics bench was as bad as you and the media want to make it out to be, these numbers would go in the other direction.

Kevin Garnett and Eddie House are the 8th best combo in the +/- category for the entire NBA. Yeah that Eddie House, he can't play.

WMR
11-13-2007, 08:11 PM
I've seen 4 of the Celtics games so far, and Big Baby has really impressed me with his shooting ability, quickness (YES, quickness!), passing ability, and athleticism.

He has lost a considerable amount of weight since he left LSU...

I think he'll eventually become their first big man option off the bench.

TeamSelig
11-14-2007, 10:45 AM
*sigh* all this over a team I could care less about

You are trying your best to make me HATE the celtics

MaineRed
11-14-2007, 01:04 PM
*sigh* all this over a team I could care less about

You are trying your best to make me HATE the celtics

First of all, I could care less if you hate the Celtics. Its not like you were a fan of the team coming into this conversation. You don't like them? Well at least it helps explain some of the comments you have made. If you think the Celtics, their fanbase or me is going to lose any sleep over someone who has watched them play about twice in the last couple of years developing hatred for them you are about as wrong as you have been in this thread. You hate them because they are good. Which is fine. Just don't tell me they have no center and are forced to play a PF in KG there and then tell me Detroit doesn't need a C because they have Rasheed. You and everyone else (the media) are looking for things to criticize. You have proved it with a number of things you have brought up.

You bring up injuries. Well what happens if Tim Duncan gets hurt? You telling me the Spurs have the depth to overcome that and continue sailing right along? No team in the league can afford to lose their top players. It isn't just Boston. What happens if Lebron goes down? What happens if Dwight Howard goes down? Those teams are done. Finished. But nobody ever says that about them. Just Boston for whatever reason. I'm guessing that reason is because people just want to be different and try to pinpoint some issue that will slow the team down. Before the season I heard it all, no PG, no C, no bench, 3 man team, no coach, no depth, on and on and on.

Everyone is gaga over a team with Oberto and Elson at C but I have to hear that Kendrick Perkins doesn't belong in the NBA or as a starter or whatever. I guess the Celtics should sign Bill Walton. If Perkins isn't supposed to be the Celtics C and if Scott Pollard stinks so bad, who are the Celtics supposed to play at that position? When you imply that guys "don't belong in the league" that means you must have some names of guys who aren't in the league who you think should be. I can all but guarantee you have no one in mind who should be taking up these roster spots that belong to undeserving players.

Just awful funny that they are the only team that has yet to lose a game with all these problems. What the heck is going on in all the cities with the perfect NBA teams? What are those teams records? Must just be a fluke that Boston is 6-0.

I can't wait until they do lose because I have a feeling this thread will get a lot more active. A Celtics loss will prove what is wrong with them while other teams get excused for having to play on the second night of a back to back or some injury problem. Been listening to that before they even lose a game. I could care less about people not liking them. Making things up and digging under rocks to find issues when you don't do that for any other team in the league is my beef.

Roy Tucker
11-14-2007, 01:30 PM
MaineRed, you'll attract a lot more bees with honey than you will with vinegar.

TeamSelig
11-14-2007, 02:16 PM
For one, I never said I didn't like them.

I said you are starting to make me hate them. You are like the energizer homerism bunny, you never stop, do you? You will have an essay to write as a rebuttal to this statement. I've watched plenty of games. I even watched a few last year when they blatantly cheated/tanked. The Celtics really don't concern me much, but I am a fan of the NBA so I know their team. I love the big three story, it's good for the sport. They have a bad bench, it is a well known fact all across the nation, which is why it is well reported to the media as their "down fall".

This ticks you off, I get that. However, I'm not going to just read all this BS about how the Celtics have a good bench. It's not true. Then you change it and start saying that they have a sad bench, but so does everybody else. It doesn't make sense.

And what are you talking about superstar players getting hurt? You're throwing clouds around everything I've said. I basically said if there are any injuries even to guys like Posey/Scalabrine (otherwise low impact players) they would be really hurting.

Go Pats!
Go Celtics!
Go Red Sox!

I forgot no one was allowed to criticize any Boston sports. Seriously, if criticism as low as a team's depth/bench is the worst thing you hear about your team, you are in pretty decent shape. Also, you don't play on the team as far as I know, so stop taking it so personally. I haven't "made up" anything here either.

I'm basically done here as far as Celtics talk goes. I guess I should have avoided mr. confrontation on non baseball side. Jeez.

WMR
11-14-2007, 10:37 PM
The Celtics are kicking ass and taking names!

WMR
11-14-2007, 10:54 PM
Garnett played 30 minutes tonight in their destruction of the Nets.

MaineRed
11-15-2007, 12:32 AM
TeamSelig, lets be clear you are using a lot less than facts to back up your opinions and it is obvious you don't like to be called on information that you create in your own mind. It is a myth that Boston has a sad bench and they have proved it 7 times to open the season. Even tonight without the guy that has been their best option off the pine they still won by 22.

And since yo are such a big fan you might be interested to know that Jamal Magloire was once again a non factor. The funny thing is Jason Collins, the Nets starter, a guy Magloire ca't beat out has scored a grand total of 2 points this season. Kendrick Perkins the guy you have determined shouldn't be in the league had 10 points, 8 board and 4 blocks TONIGHT. If Perkins isn't a starter what is Collins? That is two teams who need starting centers and you appear to be the only guy who knows where to find them.

You have justified that Kendrick Perkins doesn't belong starting because he started for Boston last year when they tanked? Al Jeffersons started too and he was traded to Minny for KG and just signed a 65 million dollar contract. Does he not deserve to be starting? And if they were tanking wouldn't that mean guys are actually better than they let on last season?

Its not that I don't want you to have an opinion of your own but the reasoning given for such opinions is so far out of whack that it is impossible to not respond. The fact that Boston's best players got hurt last year and made the season a waste about 20 games in hardly means the guys that were on the team don't belong in the starting line-up.

You've seen some of these guys play a couple of times (the Celtics had NO national TV games last year) and you are the one acting like you are a member of the team. You casually mention that Tony Allen will never be good enough to start? Well he started for a Celtics play-off team a couple of years ago. Last year he started a bunch of games and at times was the Celtics best player (with Piere out) including a big stretch of high scoring games leading up to his injury. Once he gets fully healthy there are very few teams Tony Allen couldn't start for. His defense makes him ideal alongside a high scoring wing player.

BTW I am neither a Red Sox fan or a Patriots fan so you can save your New England digs for someone else . I would think it would be rather obvious that I am a Reds fan and not a Red Sox fan. But I would hardly expect someone who still thinks Jamal Maglore is good to be able to figure that out.

MaineRed
11-15-2007, 12:52 AM
Some rumors on NBATV about talks between LA and Detroit.

To Lakers: Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince, Amir Johnson

To Pistons: Kobe

Some reports saying the trade was made but that Kobe veteoed it.

NJReds
11-15-2007, 10:34 AM
Some rumors on NBATV about talks between LA and Detroit.

To Lakers: Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince, Amir Johnson

To Pistons: Kobe

Some reports saying the trade was made but that Kobe veteoed it.

I'm surprised that the Pistons would give up their "team" philosophy to bring in Kobe. But still, that would be a hard deal to turn down for Detroit.

TeamSelig
11-15-2007, 01:53 PM
OK Maine. zZzzZz. I might read your post later. Probably not, this argument is very boring and tiring.

gO cElTiCs!

BuckeyeRed27
11-15-2007, 06:44 PM
Went to the Clippers/Knicks game last night. I got Clippers season tickets this year and decided that I'll try to become a Clippers fan. It was a good game. Both of these teams have no shot at competing against the top teams in the league, but everyone knew that already. Clippers are really missing Brand. They have no inside presense and Kaman can't guard big guys. Randolph and Curry were knocking him all over the place.

MaineRed
11-18-2007, 10:16 AM
Nets coach Lawrence Frank is the only unfortunate soul whose team has had to play the Celtics twice this season. (Pat Riley will be the next.) Frank had an interesting take on this year's Boston team, which has twice beaten New Jersey, including last Wednesday's 21-point victory in which the Celtics didn't play all that well. "They have a real good karma about them," Frank said. "You have really special players with chips on their shoulders. When you have really special players who are motivated and who are coming together for one reason, that's a dangerous combination. Their supporting cast is a whole lot better than the prognosticators predicted. [Eddie ] House and [James ] Posey can make shots. Scal [Brian Scalabrine] brings the energy. [Rajon] Rondo and [Kendrick] Perkins are underrated. And Big Baby [Glen Davis] is going to get a max deal just based on what he did to us."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2007/11/18/change_of_pacers_upstairs/?page=4

Betterread
11-18-2007, 01:35 PM
MaineRed, you will hear criticism about the celts bench ad infinitum, because on paper, they don't have names that impress people.
In my opinion, a good bench features a scoring option, a low post threat, 2 F/C bodies to bang on and tire out the opposition's low post threat, and at least 2 good outside shooters - to make open shots and keep the scoring margin close until the starters return.
(all this is assuming you start at least decent defenders at the 2 and 3 spots and 5 spot- if you cannot, you need defenders off the bench to fill those roles)
My opinion - the Celts bench is adequate for the East, but if you compare it to the benches in the West, it is below-par. But what team has 3 main options like the Celts?

MaineRed
11-18-2007, 01:44 PM
Very few benches have a low post threat. The good teams out west don't have one.

The Celtics have the shooters. Eddie House is a sniper. James Posey can shoot it well.

They have 4 bangers. Scalabrine is not going to post any stats but he can play D just fine. He is not a good rebounder though. Pollard is a pure banger. Nothing more. Big Baby can bang and it is the same thing Leon Powe is known for.

These guys are a solid group of defenders. Throw in Tony Allen who can do a little of everything, including score in bunches (he averaged 11.5 PPG last year) and these guys are adequate as you say. I think that is a long way from SAD, which is what I was saying. My point isn't that they are good. But it depends on what your standards are. If you are considering what the typical NBA bench consist of, I think they are fine. Nobody has all the options on their bench that you listed. The good teams have benches that can D well enough to make up for their offensive liablities. Nobody has a Kevin McHale or Dennis Rodman on their bench these days. Take away Jason Terry and Manu Ginobili and it is hard to find many guys the typical NBA fan would consider good.

Betterread
11-18-2007, 10:47 PM
Based on tonight's game you got 18 points from the bench. The celtics coach apparently didn't get your memo. And moreover, KG looked helpless against Dwight Howard. Still, I'd take 8 of 9 all year long.

MaineRed
11-18-2007, 11:28 PM
Well Orlando only got 14 points from their bench and they won. Speaking of bad benches, odd that nobody is criticizing the Magic bench. It currently consist of Trevor Ariza, Carlos Arroyo and Keyon Dooling. No post player, no real defenders and nobody that can really shoot the ball. This is my beef. No critism of Orlando. Or anyone else.

Dwight Howard makes most people look silly. He is the best post player in basketball and it isn't close. There isn't anyone in the league built to stop Howard nor is there anyone who should be trying to go at Howard. He is one of the top 5 players in the game, an absolute stud. He is the new Shaq, an unstoppable force.

WMR
11-29-2007, 11:12 PM
Boston was leading the Knicks 41-82 to start the 4th quarter tonight. :lol:

TeamSelig
11-29-2007, 11:15 PM
LOL holy crap... gotta love the knicks getting pounded

WMR
11-29-2007, 11:25 PM
47-97

WMR
11-29-2007, 11:25 PM
Isaiah really is a genius.

TeamSelig
11-29-2007, 11:29 PM
I'm waiting for Uncle Reg to just start laughing

MaineRed
11-29-2007, 11:32 PM
I don't think he knows if he should laugh or cry.

The Knicks will probably manage to get out without the two records but Boston has never beaten anyone by more than 51 and the NBA record for fewest points in a game is 54.

With under 3 minutes to go they are down by 49 and have scored 51. Put them together and you have what might be the worst effort ever put forth in a game against the Celtics.

WMR
11-29-2007, 11:36 PM
I'll tell ya what... I'm liking Glen Big Baby more and more as an NBA player the more that I see him. EXTREMELY active and deceivingly athletic. Great 2nd round pick. He'll give the Celtics a lot of quality minutes this year.

TeamSelig
11-29-2007, 11:38 PM
lol @ Reggie blaming it on Belicheck

WMR
11-29-2007, 11:38 PM
:lol: Boston fans love sticking it to New York.

Holy crap, Robinson hit a last second three to avoid the lowest point total. :laugh: :lol:

MaineRed
11-29-2007, 11:52 PM
Yeah that 3 allowed them to not break the team record for futility. They scored with like 56 seconds left to put them over the 54 point mark.

Obviously 59 is pretty bad.

Big Baby is starting to gain some steam for the Celtics. He may never be a big time star along the lines of the Big 3 but playing with the talent that he is I think he has a great chance to really help the team. He plays hard and he is as smart as anyone on the court (especially when they play the Knicks).

NJReds
11-29-2007, 11:52 PM
LOL holy crap... gotta love the knicks getting pounded

I'm a Knicks fan and so do I. It's time to blow this thing up from Dolan Jr. on down. The more humiliating, the better.

Puffy
11-30-2007, 06:14 PM
I'm a Knicks fan and so do I. It's time to blow this thing up from Dolan Jr. on down. The more humiliating, the better.

Yup, I am so rooting against them every game. High lottery pick here we come!!

WMR
11-30-2007, 06:16 PM
Yup, I am so rooting against them every game. High lottery pick here we come!!

:lol: That's worked so well in the past. :laugh:

Puffy
11-30-2007, 08:12 PM
:lol: That's worked so well in the past. :laugh:

Well, they haven't had lottery picks cause they traded them all away. The only high picks they've had in the last 8 years has been when they took Michael Sweetney at number 9. Thats it. Their only other time drafting that high they traded the rights to Nene for Antonio McDyess (along with Camby - i hate Scott Layden too).

MaineRed
11-30-2007, 10:27 PM
Channing Frye went 8th in 2005.

WMR
11-30-2007, 11:23 PM
Well, they haven't had lottery picks cause they traded them all away. The only high picks they've had in the last 8 years has been when they took Michael Sweetney at number 9. Thats it. Their only other time drafting that high they traded the rights to Nene for Antonio McDyess (along with Camby - i hate Scott Layden too).

You really are a Knicks fan!! Wow. ;)

TeamSelig
12-01-2007, 02:01 AM
I think their best bet would be to trade their top players for expirings or shorter deals, and draft picks if at all possible.

NJReds
12-01-2007, 11:21 AM
I think their best bet would be to trade their top players for expirings or shorter deals, and draft picks if at all possible.

They'll never win as long as Dolan runs the team. If he goes (or hires a qualified basketball exec and turns over all decision making power to him) and Isiah goes, then the rebuilding can begin.

NJReds
12-01-2007, 11:22 AM
Yup, I am so rooting against them every game. High lottery pick here we come!!

I don't want the pick. I want humiliation and an empty MSG so old man Dolan cans his son. The Knicks can get the 1st pick in every draft for the next 100 years, but they'll never win with the current management team. Never.

Puffy
12-01-2007, 02:21 PM
Channing Frye went 8th in 2005.

I knew I forgot someone. As I was typing that I kept thinking I thought they had two picks but for the life of me all I could remember was Sweetney.

Scott Layden shot the Knicks and now Isiah is holding a pillow over their heads to finish the job. Of course the biggest denominator is Dolan.

But all these bad moves just run together. Yup, forgot about Frye.

Roy Tucker
02-15-2008, 02:01 PM
To resurrect at the All-Star break...

I watched a really entertaining Suns-Warriors shootout on Thursday night. The Warriors at home are tough.

WMR
02-15-2008, 02:17 PM
How crazy is it that there may very well be a team in the West TWELVE freakin' games over .500 and not make the play-offs????? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Revering4Blue
02-15-2008, 02:55 PM
How crazy is it that there may very well be a team in the West TWELVE freakin' games over .500 and not make the play-offs????? :eek: :eek: :eek:

True. I'd like to see a 16 team nba playoff bracket based on team records, regardless of Conference affiliation for this year only.

This may be why Kobe is putting off surgery,especially with the trading deadline looming, and other teams, such as Denver and Sacramento re-establishing their health. The Lakers could well miss the playoffs entirely if Bryant and Bynam both are forced to miss multiple games.

As weak as the East is, the Cavs can possibly make it back to the finals as currently constructed, so long as everyone is healthy. Several teams are still in the playoff hunt despite the fact that they are at least 10 games under. 500:eek:

15fan
02-15-2008, 03:04 PM
As of today, 3 teams in the East have won 30+ games.

In the West, on the other hand, 9 teams have won 30+ games.

Chip R
02-15-2008, 03:07 PM
I really enjoyed watching that SA/BOS game last Sunday. If people think that no one plays defense in the NBA, they need to watch those two teams.

GoReds33
02-15-2008, 04:51 PM
I was watching First and 10 on ESPN, and they posed a good question. Which do you like better, fan voting, or celebrity judges for the slam dunk contest?

Personally, I like fan voting. I can't stand watching the contest, and the celebrities get it all wrong. It's like the Nate Robinson thing. He shouldn't have won. He took like 20 attempts at one dunk.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-15-2008, 05:09 PM
I was watching First and 10 on ESPN, and they posed a good question. Which do you like better, fan voting, or celebrity judges for the slam dunk contest?

Personally, I like fan voting. I can't stand watching the contest, and the celebrities get it all wrong. It's like the Nate Robinson thing. He shouldn't have won. He took like 20 attempts at one dunk.

The only thing I don't like about fan voting is it will probably just end up being fans from the player's team stuffing the ballot box whether they have good dunks or not.

Hopefully I'm wrong though.

Chip R
02-15-2008, 05:13 PM
The only thing I don't like about fan voting is it will probably just end up being fans from the player's team stuffing the ballot box whether they have good dunks or not.

Hopefully I'm wrong though.


The real downside is that it turns into a popularity contest. If MJ entered the contest now and just put up a 2 handed dunk that barely cleared the rim he'd win in a landslide.

GoReds33
02-15-2008, 05:46 PM
The real downside is that it turns into a popularity contest. If MJ entered the contest now and just put up a 2 handed dunk that barely cleared the rim he'd win in a landslide.True. Maybe that's why the slam dunk contest gets the younger players, so there aren't as many people voting on reputation.

Unassisted
02-15-2008, 10:27 PM
I really enjoyed watching that SA/BOS game last Sunday. If people think that no one plays defense in the NBA, they need to watch those two teams.Toward the end, that game was also Prof. Manu Ginobili's perimeter-shooting clinic. :cool:

klw
02-15-2008, 11:54 PM
#1 Lesson of the NBA first half:


You can't stop Leon Powe, you can only hope to contain him.

#2 Lesson
You can't trade Devan George, you can only hope to release him.

GoReds33
02-16-2008, 08:57 PM
To get us NBA fans ready for the slam dunk contest, I thought I would provide you with some of the greatest dunks of all time.

To start off, the greatest dunk of all time, by Mr. James "Flight" White:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA4L-_Wic78&feature=related

This is a 720 dunk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt001pBcwjM&feature=related

A video of the top 10 NBA dunks ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JizL1n1siM

Roy Tucker
02-17-2008, 12:51 AM
Loved Dwight Howard's Superman dunk and Gerald Green's blow out the candle dunk.

Great fun.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-17-2008, 01:03 AM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/9f/fullj.2c650aa8a8e7a319651b0e188cb4d340/2c650aa8a8e7a319651b0e188cb4d340-getty-79624292mw003_sprite_slam_d.jpg my new wallpaper for the computer.

He just got so high, he actually threw the ball through the hoop

Razor Shines
02-17-2008, 01:03 AM
Dwight Howard won the Dunk contest with a lay-up/jump shot. Don't get me wrong it was amazing that he made the shot, but basically he realized he wasn't even going to be close to being able to dunk the ball so he threw it at the rim and hoped it went in. I can't believe it did go in, but it's not a dunk.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-17-2008, 01:05 AM
Dwight Howard won the Dunk contest with a lay-up/jump shot. Don't get me wrong it was amazing that he made the shot, but basically he realized he wasn't even going to be close to being able to dunk the ball so he threw it at the rim and hoped it went in. I can't believe it did go in, but it's not a dunk.


"A slam dunk (or simply a dunk) is a type of basketball shot that is performed when a player jumps in the air and manually powers the ball downward through the basket with one or both of his hands."

Just to be technical:)

Razor Shines
02-17-2008, 01:09 AM
Just to be technical:)

Ok I guess, but he didn't jump far enough and threw the ball at the rim. I don't think Jordan's free-throw line dunk would have been as impressive if he'd have come up a foot and a half short and thrown the ball into the goal. Just MO though.

GoReds33
02-17-2008, 02:12 AM
I thought that Howard put on a good show, but I thought it was a little bit over-hyped. If Gerald Green's dunk while he blew out the candle wasn't a 50, than throwing the ball through the rim isn't either. Howard is a beast, but even he'll admit that blowing out a candle while dunking is absolutly rediculious. I would have to say that was the best dunk of the night. Howard's superman one was good, but the one from the other side of the backboard was the best in my opinion.

That was the best dunk competition in a long time. I hope next year, they bring out some of the superstars for this competition. I'd love to see LeBron, Carter, Kobe, and Howard all in one competition.

guttle11
02-17-2008, 03:07 AM
The third dunk Howard did was so ridiculous and so quick, the crowd didn't even realize what happened. The amount of talent and coordination it took to tap the ball off the glass with your left hand, grab it and dunk it with your right, all the while being in the air is just insane.

That and the first dunk were two of the better dunks the contest has seen in a long time.

Howard is a freak.

MaineRed
02-17-2008, 09:05 AM
That was the best dunk competition in a long time. I hope next year, they bring out some of the superstars for this competition. I'd love to see LeBron, Carter, Kobe, and Howard all in one competition.

You will see Larry Nance, Spud Webb, Isaiah "JR" Rider and Kenny Walker before you see those four together in a dunk contest.

I would guess Vince, Kobe and Lebron have seen their last dunk contests.

I just pray nobody ever does get hurt because I don't want to listen to revisionist history from ESPN about how stupid the whole thing was.

I was less impressed, like Razor after seeing on the replays that Howard's dunk wasn't actually a dunk (normal standards, not technical standards) Razor is right, if Dominique on those windmills back in the day had just thrown it through the net, instead of rocking the rim, do you think he would have gotten 48s, 49s and 50s?

I do think the right guy won.

Revering4Blue
02-21-2008, 02:14 PM
SAN ANTONIO -- The San Antonio Spurs acquired veteran forward Kurt Thomas from the Seattle SuperSonics on Wednesday night for guard Brent Barry, center Francisco Elson and a 2009 first-round draft pick.

Excellent deal for the Spurs.


Sources have told ESPN.com that the Hornets, Houston Rockets and Memphis Grizzlies were in final discussions Thursday on a multi-player deal that would send Mike James and Bonzi Wells to New Orleans, with Bobby Jackson, Adam Haluska and a second-round draft pick going to Houston.

Memphis will receive Brazilian forward Marcus Vinicius from the Hornets. The draft rights to Ukrainian forward Sergei Lishchuk, a second-round pick of the Rockets in 2004, will be sent to Houston. The Grizzlies, which also get cash considerations from Houston, will acquire the draft rights to Senegalese center Malick Badiane, a second-round pick in 2003, from t
The proposed Rockets-Hornets deal would give New Orleans two veteran scorers, and a little more size with Wells, off the bench. The Hornets also remain interested in re-signing forward Chris Andersen if his drug banishment is lifted by the NBA, although the wheels are turning slowly on Andersen's application for reinstatement. New Orleans also has reached out to unsigned free agent veteran P.J. Brown.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3256599



The trading deadline is 3pm EST.

The clock is ticking.

Unassisted
02-21-2008, 02:53 PM
Excellent deal for the Spurs.
Interesting thing about the Spurs deal is that they actually filled a need by trading away expensive spare parts for a guy who can contribute immediately and lowered their payroll by $500K. All of the other WC teams raised their payrolls in their recent deals. Hopefully they won't regret the loss of that draft pick in years to come.

Revering4Blue
02-21-2008, 04:47 PM
Cavs Get Wallace, Smith, West And Wally
February 21, 2008 - 3:35 pm
ESPN News -
The Cavaliers have acquired Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Delonte West and Wally Szczerbiak in a three-team trade.

The Bulls receive Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden, while Seattle gets Chris Duhon, Ira Newble and Cedric Simmons.

The deal is currently under league review. [

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/51023/20080221/cavs_get_wallace_smith_west_and_wally/

A blockbuster, if it's finalized.

guttle11
02-21-2008, 04:51 PM
YES, Hughes is gone!!!!!

Buckeye33
02-21-2008, 04:54 PM
YES, Hughes is gone!!!!!

That is good, but Wallace replaces him. He makes MORE money than Hughes and contributes nothing on offense. He is not the defender he was 3 years ago either.

Heath
02-21-2008, 04:54 PM
YES, Hughes is gone!!!!!

I feel for this guy who has this site (http://heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com/).

I was thisclose of heading to visit family in Cleveland tomorrow and I thought about the Cavs game. I'm glad I didn't. There's no Cavs left.

GoReds33
02-21-2008, 05:02 PM
I think it helps the Cavs. They get a defensive presence inside, and an outside shooter. If anything it spreads the floor a little more. Also, they get a point guard. With Gibson and Szczerbiak, look for LeBron to get quite a few more open looks.

guttle11
02-21-2008, 05:09 PM
Don't overlook Delonte West. He's a smart player that can put the ball in the bucket. I'd take him over Hughes any day. Upgrade.

Wallace's D is still an upgrade.

Wally and Gibson hanging on the perimeter for LeBron to kick to...nice.

Joe Smith and Drew Gooden may be a wash, but at least Smith never had a rat tail.

Heath
02-21-2008, 05:11 PM
I'd be interested in seeing the Cavalier Salary cap situation after this deal is done.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-21-2008, 06:01 PM
At first thought after seeing this trade, I said... really?

But after looking at it... I like it... but don't love it for the Cavs.

They still lack a reliable #2 option to go with LeBron. However, Gibson when he gets back from injury and Wally on the perimeter gives you 2 40+ percent 3 point shooters. Joe Smith still has a very consistent jumpshot. Not to mention they were able to keep Z. That should give them a pretty decent committee to be the #2 option.

But the team defense is going to be absolutely amazing when they all get used to playing together. Big Z and Wallace clogging the paint is a scary thought. West plays very solid defense for a guard.

This team is also BUILT for the playoffs. A frontline of Z, Wallace, Varejao and Joe Smith is pretty darned good.

Buckeye33
02-21-2008, 06:12 PM
I'd be interested in seeing the Cavalier Salary cap situation after this deal is done.

Here you go: These are the 07-08 salaries

James - 13.04
Ilguaskas - 10.41
Varejao - 5.4
Pavolvic - 4.2
Snow - 6.7 (scary)
Damon Jones - 4.2
D. Brown - 1.1
Gibson - .70
Wallace - 15.5
J. Smith - 5.2
Szczerbiak - 12.0
West - 1.9

80.35 total. Again these are for this season.

They are on the books for 77.6 million for 08-09 and that is only for 9 players.

guttle11
02-21-2008, 06:47 PM
Here you go: These are the 07-08 salaries

James - 13.04
Ilguaskas - 10.41
Varejao - 5.4
Pavolvic - 4.2
Snow - 6.7 (scary)
Damon Jones - 4.2
D. Brown - 1.1
Gibson - .70
Wallace - 15.5
J. Smith - 5.2
Szczerbiak - 12.0
West - 1.9

80.35 total. Again these are for this season.

They are on the books for 77.6 million for 08-09 and that is only for 9 players.

But they were on the hook for nearly that much anyway, and they improved the team (at least on paper). They still get a bunch of relief after 08-09. The money is largely a wash, and the team got better. Good deal.

Buckeye33
02-21-2008, 09:30 PM
But they were on the hook for nearly that much anyway, and they improved the team (at least on paper). They still get a bunch of relief after 08-09. The money is largely a wash, and the team got better. Good deal.

That is true. If things don't work out next year with Wally, a bunch of teams will be looking to get his expiring 13 million dollar contract.

He could bring in a very very good player next year. Very similar to the Pau Gasol trade. Find a team that knows it's in rebuild mold and move him for a proven player. Possibly a Gilbert Arenas if Washington stinks it up next year.

They are a better team today then they were yesterday.

GoReds33
02-21-2008, 09:46 PM
That is true. If things don't work out next year with Wally, a bunch of teams will be looking to get his expiring 13 million dollar contract.

He could bring in a very very good player next year. Very similar to the Pau Gasol trade. Find a team that knows it's in rebuild mold and move him for a proven player. Possibly a Gilbert Arenas if Washington stinks it up next year.

They are a better team today then they were yesterday.Arenas has said he's opting out after this year anyway. Please correct me if he's since revoked that though.

Buckeye33
02-21-2008, 10:07 PM
Arenas has said he's opting out after this year anyway. Please correct me if he's since revoked that though.

He may be, haven't paid much attention to the east this year. To much good ball being played out west.

My main point was just that the Cavs will have a very desirable trade piece in Wally next year.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-21-2008, 10:37 PM
He may be, haven't paid much attention to the east this year. To much good ball being played out west.

My main point was just that the Cavs will have a very desirable trade piece in Wally next year.

Wally, Snow and Damon Jones all expire next year. That's a lot of cash they can move for some good players.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-24-2008, 10:01 PM
Anybody watch the Cavs game tonight?

Very impressive, albeit against a bad team.

Can't wait to see them as they start gelling.

cincrazy
02-24-2008, 10:12 PM
Anybody watch the Cavs game tonight?

Very impressive, albeit against a bad team.

Can't wait to see them as they start gelling.

Agreed. I'm a fan of the NBA, but I don't have a particular favorite team, but whenever the Cavs are on I try and watch. I hated watching them before the trade, but I enjoy it now. They can actually spread the floor with some shooters now, and Wallace and Smith give them a defensive presence, not to mention great veteran leadership. The Cavs are going to be a SCARY team in the playoffs, especially with the way Lebron is playing.

GoReds33
02-25-2008, 08:25 AM
Anybody watch the Cavs game tonight?

Very impressive, albeit against a bad team.

Can't wait to see them as they start gelling.I was pleasantly suprised by this game. I didn't think they would be too good tonight, since they don't have al the plays installed yet, and the players don't know eachother's tendencies but it worked out well. I'm going out on a limb and saying the Cavs may atleast make the finals in the East now.

15fan
02-26-2008, 10:28 AM
As for the way the season will unfold, I'll gaze into my crystal ball and speculate that folks will be talking about Kobe, they new Garnett dynasty in Boston, and all sorts of flashy other stuff all year long. The Spurs will yet again fly under the radar, and be the last team standing when the final buzzer sounds.

Tim is the man.

Me, from back in November.

Don't look now, but the Spurs are within percentage points of having the best record in the West. And that's saying something.

I'd make the case that the West this year is the deepest and best conference in the history of the NBA. Houston has ripped off 12 straight wins. 12! And that's good enough to put them at 4th in their division. :eek:

Any other division in any other year, and that kind of spurt easily puts the team in the drivers seat. But not in the Southwest. That's an absolutely loaded division.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-26-2008, 10:37 AM
Me, from back in November.

Don't look now, but the Spurs are within percentage points of having the best record in the West. And that's saying something.

I'd make the case that the West this year is the deepest and best conference in the history of the NBA. Houston has ripped off 12 straight wins. 12! And that's good enough to put them at 4th in their division. :eek:

Any other division in any other year, and that kind of spurt easily puts the team in the drivers seat. But not in the Southwest. That's an absolutely loaded division.

The West is amazing this year. The 9th place team... NINTH would be 4th in the East... and they will be watching the playoffs from home if the season ended today.

One thing I do know though is that you will be hard-pressed to find a bad matchup to watch on that end when the postseason does roll around.

15fan
02-26-2008, 10:53 AM
you will be hard-pressed to find a bad matchup to watch on that end when the postseason does roll around.

Yup.

conversely, outside of the inevitable Detroit - Boston series, there will be a whole lot of yawners on the Eastern side of the ledger.

MaineRed
02-26-2008, 11:45 AM
You can't forget the Cavs. Boston or Detroit will get them in the second round and the Cavs could beat either one. They beat Detroit last year and they have given the Celtics fits this season.

Orlando has enough talent to hang with anyone too. I don't think they are finals material but they are good enough to beat the top 3 teams. Toronto can play with anyone as well. The 4-5 match-up should be a good series.

MaineRed
02-26-2008, 11:54 AM
Me, from back in November.

Don't look now, but the Spurs are within percentage points of having the best record in the West. And that's saying something.

I'd make the case that the West this year is the deepest and best conference in the history of the NBA. Houston has ripped off 12 straight wins. 12! And that's good enough to put them at 4th in their division. :eek:

Any other division in any other year, and that kind of spurt easily puts the team in the drivers seat. But not in the Southwest. That's an absolutely loaded division.

I picked Houston to win the West before the season started and they are finally starting to play like they deserve it.

It is impressive that they have won 12 in a row and still are only in 4th but they have nobody to blame but themselves. It wasn't until their 35th game that they got over .500 for good. All they have been doing is making up for lost time.

I don't disagree that the West is as strong as it has EVER been but consider that if this was last year, or the year before or the year before that, Houston would still likely only be a 3rd place team as you have to do a lot more than be a .500 team who wins 12 straight to catch the Spurs or Mavericks the last number of years. Also consider that in 2004 the Jazz finished 42-40 and came in dead last in a 7 team division. Houston came in 5th with 45 wins.

The West has been pretty strong for awhile.

MaineRed
02-26-2008, 12:03 PM
To add one more thing, the West also has 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league and the one team that is in the East is a team that had Dwayne Wade and Shaq.

The bottom of the East is not strong by any means but I would take the four bottom teams in the east over the four bottom teams in the West.

Seattle, Minnesota and Memphis are just dreadful and the Clippers without Elton Brand aren't far behind.

Miami has been dreadful this season but as bad as the Knicks, Bobcats and Bucks are, I would think it is much harder to beat them than it is the bottom teams in the West.

Again, I don't disagree that the West is better overall, just throwing it out there that it might not be as big of a gap as we see on the surface.

Joseph
02-26-2008, 01:47 PM
I watched the first NBA game this season the other day, Bulls and Rockets. I'm pulling for the Bulls to get a lottery pick rather than the 8 or 7 seeds.

Larry Hughes looked good in the Bulls uni though, as did Gooden....beard not included.

Chip R
02-26-2008, 02:27 PM
Not good news for the Rockets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3265631

Revering4Blue
02-26-2008, 02:50 PM
Not good news for the Rockets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3265631



KRIV-TV in Houston and The Houston Chronicle are reporting that Yao has a stress fracture in his left foot and the Rockets are expected to announce he will have season-ending surgery later Tuesday.

The team has scheduled an afternoon news conference.

Houston, currently on a 12-game winning streak, is in fourth place in the Southwest Division. The streak followed a loss in the one game that Yao has missed all season.

The 7-foot-6 Yao is averaging 22.0 points and 10.8 rebounds in 55 games this season.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-26-2008, 03:15 PM
Not good news for the Rockets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3265631

And the Denver Nuggets rejoice.

Seriously though, I don't think we will ever see a full season of Yao and McGrady.

TeamSelig
02-26-2008, 03:26 PM
Man, that sucks.

_Sir_Charles_
02-26-2008, 04:02 PM
<----- Die-hard Rockets fan

*sigh* It's such a shame because we were really playing well. It's been years since I've seen an NBA team play like a college team and that's what we were doing. Tons of ball movement, back cuts, solid TEAM defense. It was a beauty to behold. Most fans have noticed the 12 game winning streak, but most fans have also failed to notice that we'd won 16 of our last 17 and 21 out of our last 24. We were ROLLIN! Hopefully our bench can step up. *sigh*

Unassisted
02-26-2008, 04:13 PM
Me, from back in November.

Don't look now, but the Spurs are within percentage points of having the best record in the West. And that's saying something.
There's a local sports talk radio guy who is pushing the notion daily that that the Spurs need to re-sign Brent Barry to have a chance to repeat in the WC. Barry was out with an injury most of the season and was traded to Seattle in the Kurt Thomas deal. After the trade, he was immediately waived by Seattle. He's now a FA, being hotly pursued by several teams, including Houston and the Spurs. Rumor has it that Brent Barry's brother has been promised a luxury suite in the Toyota Center if he can convince his bro to sign with the Rockets.

15fan
02-26-2008, 04:23 PM
I'd heard that Barry was included in the deal with the understanding that he'd be waived, then re-sign with SA in 30 days for the stretch run.

Which Barry brother would get the suite? There's about 18 of them. If they band together and hold out so that each one gets a suite, that could get pricey for the Rockets. ;)

HotCorner
02-26-2008, 05:30 PM
Yet the NBA was up in arms that Stackhouse would be waived by the Nets and return to Dallas in the Kidd deal so the Mavs were forced not to include him.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-26-2008, 06:27 PM
Yet the NBA was up in arms that Stackhouse would be waived by the Nets and return to Dallas in the Kidd deal so the Mavs were forced not to include him.

I guess Stern has said that he doesn't mind as it isn't against the rules. It was the fact that Stackhouse was blabbing about it which made it wrong, as you aren't "supposed" to pre-meditate that kind of move.

GoReds33
02-26-2008, 07:23 PM
I hated the whole thing with Stackhouse. Everybody knew it was going to happen, and he has to run his mouth. I agree that that's why Stern had a problem with it. He's a good commissioner, and he knew that this would cause even more people to question how the league is run.

MaineRed
03-02-2008, 10:51 PM
Just reading through the earlier pages of the thread. Wondering if TeamSelig has anything to say about his love for 1.8 PPG Jamal Magloire or if he wants to criticize the Celtics bench any further?

Tried telling you dude but you wouldn't listen.

Unassisted
03-02-2008, 11:02 PM
I'd heard that Barry was included in the deal with the understanding that he'd be waived, then re-sign with SA in 30 days for the stretch run.

Which Barry brother would get the suite? There's about 18 of them. If they band together and hold out so that each one gets a suite, that could get pricey for the Rockets. ;)I forget which one. But I see your point. :)

Brent had narrowed his choices down to the Spurs and Suns. Rick Barry was quoted as saying that he was rooting for Brent to sign with Phoenix, since their offense would be the best showcase for his talents. Late last week, Brent informed Suns GM Steve Kerr that he had decided to sign with the Spurs.

BTW, the Spurs won their 7th consecutive game tonight. According to one of the local beat writers, they have the second toughest remaining schedule of any playoff-eligible team in the West after New Orleans. Coach Popovich said that as tight as the playoff race in the West is that WC teams may not have the usual luxury of resting their stars as the regular season winds down. Every win or loss could have a significant effect on a team's playoff seed.

MaineRed
03-02-2008, 11:38 PM
Minor correction, it was actually the Spurs 9th straight win.

Revering4Blue
03-03-2008, 12:05 AM
If, as expected, Sam Cassell and P.J Brown are added to the mix in Boston, the underrated Celtics bench will continue to prove the naysayers wrong. I felt they were deep enough before. But now, Boston, Detroit--with the additions of Juan Dixon and Theo Ratlif--and Cleveland, when completely healthy are as deep as any of the "Powerhouse" teams in the West.


Brent informed Suns GM Steve Kerr that he had decided to sign with the Spurs.


So the deal amounted to Elson and a 2009 #1 for Kurt Thomas. That deal may not have been as sexy as some of the other high-profile deals that went down, but may have as much of an impact. Don't think for a minute that the Spurs can't beat the Lakers in a seven game series. However, I do not want to see a Piston and spurs final..That could get ugly.

MaineRed
03-03-2008, 12:14 AM
If, as expected, Sam Cassell and P.J Brown are added to the mix in Boston, the underrated Celtics bench will continue to prove the naysayers wrong. I felt they were deep enough before.

Well PJ Brown has already signed. Cassell is expected to sign but nothing is final to this point.

I agree that Boston was deep enough before but these are good signings by Ainge. The major questions going into the season with Boston were depth at PG and did they have enough experience along the frontline. Both questions have been answered.

The main thing with Cassell if he goes to Boston is that he won't be starting. Rajon Rondo has proven he is among the top half of starting PGs so there is no problem there. Cassell, still playing at a pretty high level will give the Celtics the best 1-2 punch in the conference.

I'm not sure Brown will outperform Big Baby and Leon Powe at this stage of his career but his experience may give he and the Celtics an edge they wouldnt of otherwise had.

Revering4Blue
03-03-2008, 12:30 AM
Here's an interesting solution to the Seattle situation:


There's one solution David Stern could facilitate -- you know, assuming he cares at all about not murdering the Sonics in Seattle -- that seems so remarkably logical, it's hard to figure how this couldn't work. The NBA failed in Memphis, and the Grizzlies are currently for sale, right? Well, couldn't Stern broker a sale in which Clay Bennett acquired the Grizzlies at a discount and moved them to Oklahoma City, then sold the Sonics to a group of local buyers? (An article in Friday's Seattle Times says numerous local buyers are lining up.) That wouldn't make everyone happy? We lose one of the weakest NBA cities (Memphis) and gain a city that was routinely selling out Hornets games (Oklahoma City), and if that's not enough, Seattle gets to keep the franchise it has had for 41 seasons. Everyone wins.

Now, I'm assuming Bennett would veto this idea for two reasons: He paid more for the Sonics than the Grizzlies are currently worth, but, more importantly, he'd be losing a potential superstar (Kevin Durant) by taking over the Grizzlies. OK, fine. Let's make him happy. There's a precedent here -- after the '78 season, Boston owner Irv Levin "swapped" franchises with Buffalo owner John Y. Brown, then moved the Braves to San Diego and renamed them the Clippers. As part of the deal, the teams swapped a motherload of players and picks: Boston ended up with Tiny Archibald, Billy Knight, Marvin Barnes and two second-round picks; San Diego landed Kermit Washington, Kevin Kunnert, Sidney Wicks and the rights to Freeman Williams (the eighth pick in the '78 draft).

Assuming Bennett wouldn't swap franchises unless he could take Durant with him, what if Stern faciliated the following trade: Seattle ends up with Rudy Gay, Mike Conley Jr. and Brian Cardinal's contract, and Bennett's Grizzlies end up with Durant and the rights to Phoenix's 2010 No. 1 pick. Seattle sacrifices Durant to keep the Sonics in Seattle, but the franchise ends up with two blue-chippers for him -- throw in Jeff Green, this summer's lottery pick, five first-rounders in the next three years and all the cap space, and that's a really nice foundation. Meanwhile, Bennett gets to take a meal ticket to Oklahoma City (Durant) and team him with Mike Miller, Juan Carlos Navarro, Hakim Warrick, Kyle Lowry, Javaris Crittendon, this summer's lottery pick and a ridiculous amount of cap space. Again, that's a pretty nice foundation.

Doesn't everyone win? If anyone can explain to me why this couldn't or shouldn't happen, I'd love to hear it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080229&sportCat=nba

Unassisted
03-03-2008, 10:40 AM
Minor correction, it was actually the Spurs 9th straight win.You're right. I forgot about the two consecutive wins that preceded the 7-game streak. :D

TeamSelig
03-03-2008, 04:41 PM
Isn't much of a need for Magloire when you get Diop. Guarantee he finds a new home.

Also, what is the update on superstar Eddie House? Still a great bench player? Scalabrine? What about Baby Shaq? Tony Allen?

They still have a bad bench, but they have so much firepower in their lineup that it really doesn't matter.

MaineRed
03-03-2008, 06:33 PM
The update is they are 46-12 and with Sam Cassell are now part of the best bench in basketball.

Scalabrine is now the 14th man. Continue to criticize the guys in street clothes. Just shows how little you know.

Revering4Blue
03-03-2008, 06:34 PM
I'm not sure Brown will outperform Big Baby and Leon Powe at this stage of his career but his experience may give he and the Celtics an edge they wouldnt of otherwise had

Even though he doesn't play often, Scot Pollard has Conference finals experience with both Sacramento and Indiana.


Isn't much of a need for Magloire when you get Diop. Guarantee he finds a new home.


Magloire signed with Dallas, and they're going to need him to contribute against Shaq, Bynam and Duncan if they are to advance. He'll definitely help.


They still have a bad bench

Evidence to the contrary. http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/rankings

MaineRed
03-03-2008, 08:06 PM
Short of a few late night west coast games, I have seen all the Celtic games. They don't have a bad bench. I have watched them constantly extend leads. But TS doesn't see any all stars so ..........

I think it says it all that Doc Rivers is going to have to bench a rotation player for the play-offs.

Pierce, Allen, KG, Rondo and Perkins are the starters.

Eddie House, James Posey, Tony Allen, Big Baby and Leon Powe have been MAJOR contributors. Each game it is someone different but these guys are playing on a regular basis and performing. That is ten guys right there.

Scott Pollard is a lock for the postseason roster as he is the back-up center. We are now up to 11 players. We have room for one more. But Ainge signed PJ Brown and Cassell is supposed to be coming. That makes 13.

No team in the league will have that kind of dilema when it comes time to decide a play-off roster.

Sorry TeamSelig, no Scalabrine in sight.

MaineRed
03-03-2008, 08:14 PM
Evidence to the contrary. http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/rankings

I have no idea how they came to those rankings but if we assume there is some validity to it, the Celtics have the number 8 bench and that doesn't include PJ Brown and Sam Cassell. With those two, I think we can safely assume they are ahead of the Sonics and they are ranked second.

And would anybody really trade Cassell, PJ Brown, Tony Allen, James Posey, Eddie House and Big Baby for the Spurs bench which is led in scoring by Matt Bonner after you exclude Ginobili who is a starter who comes off the bench?

Razor Shines
03-03-2008, 08:45 PM
And would anybody really trade Cassell, PJ Brown, Tony Allen, James Posey, Eddie House and Big Baby for the Spurs bench which is led in scoring by Matt Bonner after you exclude Ginobili who is a starter who comes off the bench?

Actually if you don't count Ginobili they're led in scoring by Barry off the bench. So including him the Spurs bench consists of Damon Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas, Jaques Vaughn, Robert Horry, Matt Bonner and Ime Udoka and if you're not going to count Ginobili you have to count either Bowen or Finley as part of the bench. I'd probably go ahead and give the slight edge to the Spurs bench.

MaineRed
03-03-2008, 08:56 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=sas

Barry isn't listed here. I forgot about him.

Razor Shines
03-03-2008, 08:59 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=sas

Barry isn't listed here. I forgot about him.

I know. He has to sit out 30 days before he can play again with the Spurs, because of being traded to, then released by the Sonics. He'll be back for the end of the season though.

MaineRed
03-03-2008, 09:42 PM
I think the Spurs get by a lot on name recognition.

Finley is shooting less than 40&#37;. Horry is averaging less than 3 PPG. Vaughn is so good that the Spurs begged Stoudamire to be their back-up PG.

That said I think they do have one of the better benches. Experience counts. That is why I am so excited about Cassell (two rings).

Revering4Blue
03-03-2008, 11:28 PM
Strangely,even though I still believe that the Spurs and maybe the Jazz are capable of knocking the Lakers off in a seven game series, a potential first round match-up with athletic teams like the Nuggets or Warriors could well expose the Spurs achilles heel.....lack of athleticsm, resulting in a first round ouster.

Yeah, I know the Spurs knocked off both the Nuggets and Suns last year, but keep in mind that Kenyon Martin wasn't available for the Nuggets last year to provide more interior defense. We all know what happened to the Suns last year. Throw the Stoudamire suspension out the window, and the suns still should have won the series. IMHO, they lost
because D'Antoni didn't go deep enough on his bench. You cannot win at a break-neck pace with only seven players.

Razor Shines
03-03-2008, 11:36 PM
I think the Spurs get by a lot on name recognition.

Finley is shooting less than 40%. Horry is averaging less than 3 PPG. Vaughn is so good that the Spurs begged Stoudamire to be their back-up PG.

That said I think they do have one of the better benches. Experience counts. That is why I am so excited about Cassell (two rings).

Finley is shooting .399 from the field I'd say he's shooting 40% which isn't great but he is shooting 37% from the 3pt line where about half of his shots come from. He only shot 41% from the field last year during the playoffs but still shot very well from the 3pt line.

Horry usually doesn't play well until late in the season/playoff time. He's not a guy who's ever going to score that many points but the Spurs don't need him to score, he only averaged 4pts a game in the playoffs last year.

The Spurs signed Stoudamire to fill in for Parker while he's injured because Vaughn was the only other point guard they had on the team and Vaughn shoots 40% from the 3pt line.

MaineRed
03-03-2008, 11:56 PM
I think what you are trying to say is that the Spurs don't really rely on their bench. So long as Horry hits a big shot or two and Pop continues to run one of his starters (Manu) off the bench the Spurs will continue to have "the best bench in basketball".

I am fan of the Spurs. I am not a fan of the Spurs bench as a unit. Horry doesn't wait to start playing well. He just happens to hit some big shots when it matters. At this stage of his career, Robert Horry is not very good.

The Spurs are very weak at PG. Stoudamire is not the same guy who tore up the league in the mid 90s.

The wings are old, Barry and Finley. Finley scores ten a game but he needs ten shots to get it. These guys were really good, five years ago. Now they are just along for the ride.

The Spurs are weak inside. Kurt Thomas was a nice addition but he too is running on fumes.

I think more than any other team the Spurs rely on their top players. I think the Celtics can win, in the play-offs with Paul Pierce or Ray Allen shooting 4-15. They have constantly been winning under those conditions during the season, thanks to the bench. I don't believe the Spurs win very often when Duncan or Manu shoot that poorly.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. I just think when the Spurs skin a cat, the bench gets more of the credit than they really deserve.

WMR
03-04-2008, 12:33 AM
I'll tell you who has perhaps been the biggest surprise for the Celtics to this point: Glen Davis.

Kid should try ballet, he's got some serious twinkle-toes (in a good way).

Awesome decision to draft him by the Celts.

MaineRed
03-04-2008, 08:11 AM
He or Rondo probably WMR. Rondo is playing great basketball. He had 16 assist the other day. He is constantly filling the stat sheet. He'll scored 9 points, dish out 8 assist, grab 7 rebounds and come up with 4 or 5 steals. Just a great all around player. He is going to be scary good in another couple of years.

Razor Shines
03-04-2008, 11:50 AM
I think what you are trying to say is that the Spurs don't really rely on their bench. So long as Horry hits a big shot or two and Pop continues to run one of his starters (Manu) off the bench the Spurs will continue to have "the best bench in basketball".

I am fan of the Spurs. I am not a fan of the Spurs bench as a unit. Horry doesn't wait to start playing well. He just happens to hit some big shots when it matters. At this stage of his career, Robert Horry is not very good.

The Spurs are very weak at PG. Stoudamire is not the same guy who tore up the league in the mid 90s.

The wings are old, Barry and Finley. Finley scores ten a game but he needs ten shots to get it. These guys were really good, five years ago. Now they are just along for the ride.

The Spurs are weak inside. Kurt Thomas was a nice addition but he too is running on fumes.

I think more than any other team the Spurs rely on their top players. I think the Celtics can win, in the play-offs with Paul Pierce or Ray Allen shooting 4-15. They have constantly been winning under those conditions during the season, thanks to the bench. I don't believe the Spurs win very often when Duncan or Manu shoot that poorly.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. I just think when the Spurs skin a cat, the bench gets more of the credit than they really deserve.

Yeah well Sam Cassell's not the same player he was in the 90s either.

The Celtics play a lot of crappy teams in the east, so they can win when their top players don't play as well.

What the Spurs need out of Finley and Barry is 3pt shooting and they get it, as old as they are they shoot very well from outside and so does Jaques Vaughn. They don't need to score as much they just need to spread the court and make the defense be aware of them when they are on the court.

klw
03-04-2008, 02:08 PM
I have been impressed with the Celtic bench this year. Leon Powe and Glen Davis bring a great energy off the bench and Powe really shone while Garnett was out. The weak point has been at the back up point guard. House is okay but really is more of a shooting guard. He lacks the ability to create that is Rondo's forte. The biggest issue that I would have with the Celtic personnel is how it is utilized by Doc at times. There are times he goes small for too long especially late in the game. For a long time he would not play Perkins in the 4th quarter and without him or Powe in there with Garnett the Celtics will end up on the perimeter too much. Garnett will often then come out to set picks, leaving no one under to rebound and if the 3 stops falling, the C's stop scoring. Almost cost them the game the other night.

MaineRed
03-04-2008, 02:18 PM
Jacque Vaugh has taken 5 shots from behind the arc all season.

I realize Cassell isn't the same player but his production has not been cut in half from his best seasons. He is 3 points and 1 assist from his career average. Finley is nearly 7 points below his career average. As is Damon Stoudamire. Sam Cassell is playing at a much higher level than either.

As for the crappy teams, 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league are in the West and the Celtics are 18-3 vs the Western conference this season, including being unbeaten vs the Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks, Jazz and Rockets.

The Celtics have a great team. The excuse that they are in the East is just lame. If the Reds are the best team in the NL, redszone is not going to want to hear it is because they are in the weaker league.

Razor Shines
03-04-2008, 04:01 PM
Jacque Vaugh has taken 5 shots from behind the arc all season.

I realize Cassell isn't the same player but his production has not been cut in half from his best seasons. He is 3 points and 1 assist from his career average. Finley is nearly 7 points below his career average. As is Damon Stoudamire. Sam Cassell is playing at a much higher level than either.

As for the crappy teams, 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league are in the West and the Celtics are 18-3 vs the Western conference this season, including being unbeaten vs the Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks, Jazz and Rockets.

The Celtics have a great team. The excuse that they are in the East is just lame. If the Reds are the best team in the NL, redszone is not going to want to hear it is because they are in the weaker league.

Never said the Celtics didn't have a great team, in fact I think they're one of the top two or three teams in the NBA. I've already said that I'd give the Spurs' bench only a slight edge, meaning the Celtics' is second, barely.

You do have to admit that there is more of a majority of weak teams in the East, the bad teams in the West get more exposed because they have to play more good teams, but I didn't say that the Celtics weren't a great team because they play in the East.

I like how you tried to make it out like I said something I didn't. You said that the Celtics have won games when their good players have shot poorly, and yes they have but they haven't done that against the good teams from the West.

Against teams from the West with records of .500 or better Boston's big 3 have done this:

Allen: 47&#37; from the field, 20.3 ppg.
Pierce: 46% from the field, 22.4 ppg and 4.3 apg.
Garnett: 55% from the field, 18.5 ppg and 10.2 rpg.

All of those numbers are above their season averages (except Garnett's ppg which is right at his season average). My point isn't and never was that the Celtics are weak because they play in the weak East. I was just speaking to your point about the Celtics being able to win even when they're top three don't shoot well. And I agree against weak Eastern teams they can do that, but as I showed above that isn't true against good Western teams.

As far as the Spurs being able to win without their good players playing well, look at the run they went on while Parker was out. Again mostly against weak East teams. They obviously need their good players to play well against good teams, but so do the Celtics.

Sam Cassell has been playing on a crappy Clippers team, so of course his numbers aren't going to drop off as much as Finley's. I would submit to that if Cassell had been playing for the Spurs or Celtics most of this year he'd be averaging at least 7 pts below his career average.

BuckeyeRed27
03-04-2008, 04:28 PM
I've watched Cassell play several times this year and I think he is going to be a great pick up for Boston. He still plays at a high level and will probably only have to play about 25 minutes a night on that team so fatigue and his injury issues shouldn't matter as much. I attended two games this year that he just took over late and really kept the Clips in it.

Unassisted
03-04-2008, 05:02 PM
As far as the Spurs being able to win without their good players playing well, look at the run they went on while Parker was out. Again mostly against weak East teams. They obviously need their good players to play well against good teams, but so do the Celtics.
Ginobili was on fire for some of those wins during the rodeo road trip. I believe he scored over 40 in two of those games, much of it from 3-point range.

Razor Shines
03-04-2008, 05:33 PM
I've watched Cassell play several times this year and I think he is going to be a great pick up for Boston. He still plays at a high level and will probably only have to play about 25 minutes a night on that team so fatigue and his injury issues shouldn't matter as much. I attended two games this year that he just took over late and really kept the Clips in it.

Of course he's a great pick up for Boston, I never said he wasn't. My point was that he won't average more than 8-10 pts a game for the Celtics, not because he can't, but because they won't need more than that out of him. The same with Finley for SA.

WMR
03-04-2008, 05:39 PM
I want a Lakers-Celtics Final. It'll be just like the 80's all over again.

Razor Shines
03-04-2008, 05:45 PM
I want a Lakers-Celtics Final. It'll be just like the 80's all over again.

I want a Suns - Celtics Final. But unfortunately the Great Shaq Experiment isn't going very well.

MaineRed
03-04-2008, 06:12 PM
Finley has been averaging 10 PPG for the last 3 years and he is just days away from being 35years old. Lets not pretend he would be scoring 20 a night if he was playing for someone other than the Spurs. His last year in Dallas, 4 years ago his numbers started to drop significantly. If Finley played for anyone else, he probably wouldn't play at all. His slow legs and lack of explosiveness would have him exposed playing for anyone else.

The Spurs team is great. Their bench is overrated, big time.

BTW, Razor, the last time the Celtics played Detroit, Glen Davis scored 16 of his team high 20 points in the 4th quarter to carry the Celtics.


Against teams from the West with records of .500 or better Boston's big 3 have done this:

Allen: 47&#37; from the field, 20.3 ppg.
Pierce: 46% from the field, 22.4 ppg and 4.3 apg.
Garnett: 55% from the field, 18.5 ppg and 10.2 rpg.

KG missed 9 games, including the wins vs. Dallas and San Antonio so those stats aren't totally valid. Someone had to make up for those lost numbers from KG and that is exactly what they have done and it isn't just vs. the weak Eastern teams.

Revering4Blue
03-04-2008, 06:45 PM
I want a Suns - Celtics Final. But unfortunately the Great Shaq Experiment isn't going very well.

Steve Kerr pulled the trigger on the Shaq deal in hopes that it pays dividends in the Playoffs. The irony is that if the Suns and Mavericks continue to slide, they'll miss the Playoffs altogether.



As for the crappy teams, 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league are in the West

True, I realize that the Clippers are missing Brand and Livingston, but look at the bottom feeding teams in the East...

We all know that the Knicks are a poorly constructed mess. But the Bobcats and Pacers have resembled M*A*S*H units all season, while the Bulls and Hawks have clearly underachieved.

GoReds33
03-04-2008, 06:50 PM
I want a Suns - Celtics Final. But unfortunately the Great Shaq Experiment isn't going very well.I'm on the same boat. I think that since alot of the NBA has adapted the Suns philosophy, it would be good to see them in the finals. They defenitly have a good team, but Shaq seems to be bringing them down. The Celtics started off very well, and have played well since, but the absence of Garnett may have ended their dominance. I think that they are the best in the East though.

Still, another matchup I would like to see would be Suns-Pistons. Two really different strategies, and a lot of starts on the court. That would make one heck of a show.

Razor Shines
03-04-2008, 06:51 PM
Finley has been averaging 10 PPG for the last 3 years and he is just days away from being 35years old. Lets not pretend he would be scoring 20 a night if he was playing for someone other than the Spurs. His last year in Dallas, 4 years ago his numbers started to drop significantly. If Finley played for anyone else, he probably wouldn't play at all. His slow legs and lack of explosiveness would have him exposed playing for anyone else.

The Spurs team is great. Their bench is overrated, big time.

BTW, Razor, the last time the Celtics played Detroit, Glen Davis scored 16 of his team high 20 points in the 4th quarter to carry the Celtics.



KG missed 9 games, including the wins vs. Dallas and San Antonio so those stats aren't totally valid. Someone had to make up for those lost numbers from KG and that is exactly what they have done and it isn't just vs. the weak Eastern teams.
Yep, he missed two of the games I took stats from. Against the Spurs (when Parker was also out) Pierce had 35. The only player off the Celtics bench who was in double figures was House with 10. Finley, the old and worthless, had 19 off the bench for the Spurs. Against Dallas Pierce and Allen had 26 each, House had 10 off the bench and Powe had 13.

So in both of those games the bench did pick it up a little but both Pierce and Allen picked it up also. Again never said the Celtics bench was bad, but they need their big players to play well to beat good teams.

I watched the game that Davis had 20 against the Pistons. He had a nice game, but let's not kid ourselves he didn't carry anything besides his own weight (which is a feat in itself) all of his baskets in the 4th quarter were layups off of assists from one of the big 3. All of them. Only one of them did he have to take a dribble to get around a defender. The other baskets came from the Pistons keying on one of the big 3 and leaving Davis. He made some nice finishes, 3 of them he got fouled on. But he was open because of the big 3.


I never said Finley would be scoring 20 a night with another team. I merely suggested that he's as good off the bench for the Spurs as Cassell (who's 38) will be off the bench for the Celtics. If Cassell had been on the Spurs for the last 3 years he'd not have averaged more than 10 ppg either. You lose credibility when you say:

If Finley played for anyone else, he probably wouldn't play at all.
I'm sorry that's ridiculous. You're telling me he can play significant minutes for the best team in the West but couldn't play at all for any other team in the NBA?

BuckeyeRed27
03-04-2008, 07:06 PM
There are just so many great potential playoff and finals match ups. I've said it before but I am really excited for the NBA playoffs.

MaineRed
03-04-2008, 07:07 PM
Finley would not play for Boston. Doc Rivers would not put him on the floor over Tony Allen or James Posey.

The worst teams, like Seattle and Minnesota would not even want him. They want young guys to grow with not 35 year old wings.

The Pistons wouldn't play him. They have better options.

Name me a team, other than the Spurs who would start Michael Finley at this stage of his career? Heck, give me some teams that would make it a point to find room for Michael Finley in their rotation. I just don't see it. He fits on the Spurs because of their system. Only the Spurs could have a starting two guard shooting below 40&#37;. No other team could get away with it.


If Cassell had been on the Spurs for the last 3 years he'd not have averaged more than 10 ppg either.

I totally disagree with this. Three years ago Cassell averaged over 17 PPG. Two years ago in the play-offs he averaged 18 PPG and nearly took the Clippers to the WC Finals. This year Cassell is shooting 45% to Finley's 40. Since Cassell is the better shooter why would the Spurs not at the least, give him the same number of shots Finley is getting? The Spurs don't seem like a team that would have better shooters than Finley and then would give them less shots than Finley. If he got the same number of shots he would outperform him since he shoots it better. Probably the reason he is averaging 2-3 more points this season than Finley when both are taking a similar amount of shots.

The Spurs would have taken Cassell with open arms three years and would probably have an additional ring if they had gotten him. He was unreal in the 06 play-offs.

Revering4Blue
03-04-2008, 07:32 PM
WASHINGTON (Ticker) -- Washington Wizards guard Gilbert Arenas returned to practice Tuesday for the first time since undergoing knee surgery nearly four months ago.

Arenas, 25, participated in non-contact drills but ran at full speed. The three-time All-Star has been sidelined since undergoing surgery November 21 to repair a torn meniscus in his left knee.

"I wasn't as tired as I thought I was going to be," Arenas said after Tuesday's workout. "I was just excited to get out there and play basketball.

"My knee is fine so far. We'll see how it acts tomorrow after a day of rest."

The Wizards have not set a timetable for Arenas' return. But the star point guard, nicknamed "Agent Zero," hopes to return to action by the end of the month.

Anyone else believe that a healthy Wizards team can make life difficult for any of the top teams in the East, specifically Orlando?

Razor Shines
03-04-2008, 08:14 PM
I just completely disagree with you about Finley. But obviously I'm wrong. I didn't know that you had already talked to Doc Rivers and Flip Saunders about Finley. The only thing I agree with you on Finley about is that really crappy teams probably wouldn't want him, because they're out of the hunt and have no need for vets. They wouldn't want Cassell either.

I'm sure the Spurs would welcome Cassell with open arms. Not once have I said he's not good. Some how you've gotten it your head that I've ripped the Celtics for signing Cassell.

I stand by what I said about him not averaging more than 10ppg on the Spurs, but again that's not a knock on him (just like I don't think it should be a knock on Finley either) there just wouldn't be enough shots for him. Cassell had a great playoffs a couple years ago, again he was one of the main options on that team, he wouldn't have been on the spurs.

Here's one area where I will somewhat knock Cassell, and that is that he's not a better shooter than Finley. Half of Finley's shots come from 3pt land where he shoots very well so of course that's going to drive down his overall FG percentage. Cassell shoots very poorly from 3pt land so most of his shots are closer to the basket, thus his over all FG percentage is 5-6 pts better than Finley's. I'm not saying that Finley is better than Cassell or that Cassell sucks, I'm saying that they are comparable veteran bench players. I just don't understand why you think Finley sucks.

This year Cassell takes one more shot per game than Finley and averages 2-3pts more. Doesn't seem like a huge difference to me.

BTW: I almost forgot. Nice catch on Jaques Vaughn earlier. I didn't even check how many 3's he'd taken this year, I got sloppy on that one.

TeamSelig
03-04-2008, 09:02 PM
With Cassell and PJ Brown, the Celtics bench is pretty good. (assuming PJ is still in pretty godo shape)

Playing with three (3!) superstars will really improve your game. My point is that no one on the Celtics bench puts up good numbers. Baby Shaq gets all kinds of praise when he plays well, but the worst of all players have good nights here and there, its consistent play that makes you a good player & 2.8 RPG isn't cutting it.

However, the Celtics have really played pretty well. I assumed that out of the big three - one would remain a dominate leader and the other two would have slightly diminishing stats, but it doesn't really seem to effect them. This really downplays any need for a bench. With three stars, defenses could care less about Tony Allen, Eddie House, or Leon Powe.

Also, Finley and Cassell are both solid vets. Not much of a debate no matter how you want to spin it.

MaineRed
03-04-2008, 09:58 PM
RS, I just think Finley is old, slow and a shell of his former self. His numbers are way down. Other than score 10 PPG he doesn't do anything. He doesn't rebound, get assist, or even get to the free throw line. In 58 games he has shot 49 free throws. He is getting to the line once every 33 minutes. less than once per game.

He does shoot a lot of 3s but I don't see what that has to do with anything. For his career Finley is a 44&#37; shooter overall and a 37% shooter from beyond the arc.

This season he is still shooting 37% from behind the arc but his overall % is down 4+ points. He can make open 3s until he is 50 but he can't and doesn't do anything else.

Not sure why you are making snide remarks about Doc Rivers and Flip Saunders. We are on a message board, if you haven't figured out that what I am saying is simply my opinion, I don't know what to tell you. I never said my word was gospel. I think at age 35 Finley is in one of the few, if not only spots where he can play the role he is playing. IMO the other elite teams would have nothing more than a scrub role for him. I don't think the Suns ask him to take off his warm-ups. Same with Golden State and Denver. He is too slow for those teams. Dallas is paying him 17 million to play for the Spurs so I know they don't want him. The Lakers don't seem to have room for him and neither do the Rockets.

I just don't see Mike Finley playing anywhere close to 27 minutes on any other team in the NBA. He is in the best spot for him and that is all fine and good. I just think it covers up some of his flaws.

MaineRed
03-04-2008, 10:29 PM
Playing with three (3!) superstars will really improve your game. My point is that no one on the Celtics bench puts up good numbers. Baby Shaq gets all kinds of praise when he plays well, but the worst of all players have good nights here and there, its consistent play that makes you a good player & 2.8 RPG isn't cutting it.

It helps when you get consistent minutes too. Big Baby and his 2.8 RPG that "doesn't cut it" equates to the 4th best Celtic in rebounds per 48 minutes. Leon Powe, the other back-up PF is second in the category, only .4 behind KG. What does that tell you?


This really downplays any need for a bench. With three stars, defenses could care less about Tony Allen, Eddie House, or Leon Powe.

Are you suggesting that when Tony Allen (who is known for attacking the basket) gets the ball that defenses "care less about him"? And when Eddie House who doesn't do much besides shoot 3s, gets the ball behind the arc, defenses could care less about him?

Funny, but when the Celtics play a team like the Cavs, despite doing what they can to stop Lebron, they spend plenty of time, caring about the Cavs scrubs. You are taking the "I never watch the Celtics but this is what I figure" way out.


Also, Finley and Cassell are both solid vets. Not much of a debate no matter how you want to spin it.

I choose to spin it in a way that Finley isn't all that "solid". Take a look at the per 48 numbers of Finley and then look at the numbers of Eddie House. Then consider that Eddie House might be pushed right off the roster with the Cassell signing. They are the same player. The Celtics just have better players at the wing positions than the Spurs do so 27 MPG is not open to their version of Michael Finley, Eddie House.

Of the rotation players, the Spurs Big 3 are their top per 48 minute scorers. No surprise I guess. But Ray Allen is 4th on the Celtics list behind Leon Powe.

TeamSelig
03-05-2008, 04:46 PM
I take it that you have never watch the Spurs play.

TeamSelig
03-05-2008, 04:52 PM
BTW per 48 minute statistics are about as credible as batting average. Joe Blow enters game, plays 4 minutes and 1 rebound bounces his way -- per48 = 12 RPG, one of the best rebounders in the league.

Unless Leon Powe is actually as good of a rebounder as Kevin Garnett. You tell me since you've watched more games. Since you are an NBA scout, I will take your word for it.

GoReds33
03-05-2008, 05:29 PM
I take it that you have never watch the Spurs play.Alot of us don't get to watch the Spurs play. It seems like it's the Suns, or an East coast team that's on tv now. You just can't sit down to a Kings game when you want to.

MaineRed
03-05-2008, 05:33 PM
I made it a point earlier to say rotation players. Your theory works for Gabe Pruitt but not Big Baby and Leon Powe IMO. Some guy named Ian Mahinmi is averaging 43.8 PPG (per 48 minutes) for the Spurs. That is the guy you are talking about.

When KG was out, Powe had games where he pulled down 11, 10, 9, 9, 8 and 8 rebounds. In KGs first game back he had 11 rebounds. Since then he hasn't been playing much as Doc is shortening up the rotation a bit and I think trying to decide who he wants for the play-offs, Big Baby or Leon.

TeamSelig
03-05-2008, 11:02 PM
You should praise Rajon Rondo instead of Leon Powe. He has done a really good job as a young player in only his second year. Then again, he did go to UK. High shooting percentage too, which is his main weakness.

NorrisHopper30
03-06-2008, 12:08 AM
LeBron had a great game tonight, 50 10 and 8 along with 4 steals and 7 threes.

MasonBuzz3
03-06-2008, 12:50 AM
LeBron had a great game tonight, 50 10 and 8 along with 4 steals and 7 threes.
yeah but he's overrated, DWade is the one with the championship. DWade > Lebron :rolleyes:
Lebron should win the MVP this year without a doubt. Kobe is having a great year and so is Chris Paul, but Cleveland would have a tough time making the playoffs in the weak East without James. Lebron not only is leading the league in scoring, but he's averaging 8 boards a game on a really good rebounding team, meaning not too many free boards. As well he is averaging 7.5 assists on a team that can not shoot the ball at all. Lebron should win his first of many MVP awards this year

MaineRed
03-06-2008, 08:21 AM
You should praise Rajon Rondo instead of Leon Powe. He has done a really good job as a young player in only his second year. Then again, he did go to UK. High shooting percentage too, which is his main weakness.

LMAO. I was "praising" Powe because you were questioning him. At least you have moved to questioning him from your earlier statement that he "doesn't belong on an NBA roster".

I don't know why I am surprised. You said Big Baby had limited potential and was slow. You also said that Kendrick Perkins (20 rebounds vs. Detroit last night) "isn't a starter".

And you are making sarcastic remarks to me about being an NBA scout? Perhaps now you can see why I was so adamant with you in our earlier conversations. The stuff you said was ridiculous. All you did was bag on the bench and rip the other role players. You said it was a 3 man team and there was little chance of getting help from the others. And you were pounding your fist on the table as you were saying it. But have you even hinted at saying you might have been off on some (all) of your analysis? Nope. You just keep digging a deeper hole.

As for Rondo he is playing great. But I if came out and said that you'd say something like the following.

"Yeah Rondo is a future hall of famer, that is why 23 teams passed him up in the draft. He isn't as good as Chris Paul so I hope you aren't suggesting that."

GoReds33
03-06-2008, 08:38 AM
yeah but he's overrated, DWade is the one with the championship. DWade > Lebron :rolleyes:
Lebron should win the MVP this year without a doubt. Kobe is having a great year and so is Chris Paul, but Cleveland would have a tough time making the playoffs in the weak East without James. Lebron not only is leading the league in scoring, but he's averaging 8 boards a game on a really good rebounding team, meaning not too many free boards. As well he is averaging 7.5 assists on a team that can not shoot the ball at all. Lebron should win his first of many MVP awards this yearChris Paul has got to be the NBA MVP this year. He leads the league in assists, and is fast becoming the best point guard in the league. He's averaging 20 points, and 10 assits this year. That's similar to the numbers Nash won with two years in a row.

NorrisHopper30
03-06-2008, 09:48 AM
Chris Paul has got to be the NBA MVP this year. He leads the league in assists, and is fast becoming the best point guard in the league. He's averaging 20 points, and 10 assits this year. That's similar to the numbers Nash won with two years in a row.

Alright you got me, 20 and 10 is better than 30 8 and 8..

HumnHilghtFreel
03-06-2008, 03:14 PM
Alright you got me, 20 and 10 is better than 30 8 and 8..

The writers' criteria is to give it to the best player on one of the best teams though. The only way I think LeBron will have a chance is if he can manage to get the team to 50 wins, which I'm going to say is out of the question at this point as they'd have to finish out the year 15-6.

It's still a three way race, but I think CP3 and Kobe are in the lead simply based on their records in the superior conference. And then Kobe will take it home based on being snubbed in past years

TeamSelig
03-06-2008, 03:19 PM
Digging a deeper hole? You act like I'm in trouble by you or that I even care about this conversation. I also still wonder why you are so in love with your scrubs.

Anyways..

Wow... Lebron can just take over any game so it seems. It's crazy what he does when motivated a little more (the Toronto fans, Spike Lee).

Chip R
03-06-2008, 03:42 PM
I think a couple of you need to take a step back from this discussion. If you have issues with each other, take it private.

Revering4Blue
03-06-2008, 06:03 PM
Writer roundtable: How will things shake out in the East?



The Boston Celtics got the best of the Detroit Pistons on Wednesday. Will we see the same result if the two Eastern powers face off in the playoffs? Or do both teams have a bigger problem named LeBron?

The East might be least, but it's also the home of two of the NBA's very best teams -- plus King James and Superman.

So to avoid charges of West Coast bias, let's take a closer look at how things are shaping up in the Eastern Conference with just six weeks to go in the regular season.

1. What did Wednesday's game between Detroit and Boston tell you about the battle for East supremacy?

Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: I don't think it tells us all that much. Before, during and after this game we knew Boston was extremely likely to finish the season with the best record in the entire league. We knew they would be confident against any opponent. We knew they would perform at a high level.

What we still don't know is who would win a playoff series between Boston and Detroit, or Boston and Cleveland. Watching that will be the fun part.

J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: Kevin Garnett can take over a game offensively. For a player with his credentials, he doesn't always dominate in that way.

His 31 points Wednesday night were a season high -- that's pretty modest for a superstar and a long way from the 50-spots put up by Kobe Bryant and LeBron James lately.

Chris Broussard, ESPN Mag: I don't want to make too much of a regular-season game, but I saw nothing to change my view that Boston is better than Detroit. For Detroit to have a chance versus Boston, Rasheed Wallace is going to have to play more offensively on the block.

I also saw that Rajon Rondo has the guts and confidence to take on the challenge of facing Chauncey Billups. While Rondo won't win that battle, his willingness to aggressively partake is huge for Boston.

John Hollinger, ESPN.com: I don't like to put too much weight on any one regular-season game. But between the hype, the crowd and the Pistons' melting down after a fourth-quarter technical, it felt just like June, didn't it?

Biggest impact is that home court is now settled in Boston's favor -- it will be tough for Detroit, or anyone else, to steal a win there this spring.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: Read today's Daily Dime, and you'll see that I said it as declaratively as possible: The Celtics are better than the Pistons.

Detroit's lack of hunger has been its Achilles' heel for a couple years now, and I see no hunger pangs from it now.

The Celtics? They're only getting better, not just getting older like Detroit.

Marc Stein, ESPN.com: The Celtics were at home and the Pistons, unlike Boston, had played the night before. So you could say that they simply did what they were supposed to do in a game we won't even remember come May.

But I'm not saying that. All of the above also means Boston had a lot more to lose. Kudos, then, to the Celts for closing Detroit out pretty comfortably in what has to rank as the biggest game this group has played so far ... and clinching a playoff berth with a ridiculous 23 games to go.

2. Does Boston or Detroit have more to fear from Cleveland?

Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: Detroit, it seems to me, wins when it plays well.



Boston and Detroit in the Eastern Conference finals? LeBron will have something to say about that.

But sometimes, for whatever reason, the team seems to act a little bit "cool." The Pistons get a little impressed with themselves and their stature, and end up blowing a big defensive assignment or something.

The Pistons certainly can beat Cleveland, and could have last year. Boston, on the other hand -- I boldly predict -- will lose if it faces Cleveland.

J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: Boston should be more afraid of Cleveland.

If you break down the scoring point for point, LeBron can get 40-50 himself and basically match Boston's Big Three on his own. Then you toss in some buckets by Wally Szczerbiak and a couple of 3s by Daniel Gibson and some big shots by Joe Smith, and they've got point production. On defense, they can throw Ben Wallace at KG. If the Cavs turn a game into a toss-up, it's LeBron's to take over.

Chris Broussard, ESPN Mag: It should worry both, but Detroit more.

The Cavs clearly present matchup problems for Detroit. We've seen that the past two postseasons. And whatever mojo Cleveland has over Detroit will only increase now that former Bad Boy II ringleader Ben Wallace is a Cav. Detroit always thought Cleveland was soft, but with Big Ben aboard, the Pistons can't say that anymore.

John Hollinger, ESPN.com: Gotta be Detroit, because the past two years have proven that the Cavs match up very well against the Pistons and have little to fear against them, and because LeBron has been better than ever this season.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: Tough question. A rematch with the Cavs might be the only thing that truly gets the Pistons fired up in the postseason, so I think the Cavs should fear them more than the other way around.

The Celtics are so good defensively that if they trust their coaches' schemes, they should have nothing to fear from LBJ and the Cavs.

Marc Stein, ESPN.com: It's the same nightmare scenario for both. The Cavs are already in the Pistons' heads and I'm quite sure Boston is rooting hard for Cleveland to pass Orlando in the East standings, wanting no part of trying to contain LeBron in Round 2 having already struggled to do so in the teams' regular-season encounters.

It's hard to picture the Cavs beating both of those teams to get to the Finals, but you can be sure that whoever gets Cleveland in the second round will be bummed about it.

3. Besides the Cavs, which dark horse team is most likely to make a surprise run to the NBA Finals?

Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: Orlando has the big man and the coach for the job. And it's easy to picture Hedo Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis having huge series. But it's tough to bet on a team with an uncertain point guard situation.

So I'll take Toronto: The Raptors have a big man in Chris Bosh, a steady point guard in Jose Calderon and maybe some learned lessons from last year's disappointing end to the season.

J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: Why not the Magic? If their 3-pointers are dropping and Dwight Howard is dominating inside, they're a good team. Turkoglu is a tough matchup, too, because he can shoot outside and take defenders off the dribble.

Orlando was the first team to beat Boston. It's 2-1 against the Celtics and 2-1 against the Pistons. People limit the Eastern Conference discussion to three teams, but don't forget the Magic have a better record than the Cavaliers.

Chris Broussard, ESPN Mag: I fully believe that Boston, Cleveland or Detroit will rep the East.

If forced to pick another dark horse, it has to be Orlando, with its great front line. I'd say Washington if Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler, or even just Butler, were healthy.

John Hollinger, ESPN.com: I don't think anyone is particularly likely in the East, but if forced to choose I still have to go with the Raptors. If Bosh and T.J. Ford are both healthy they're the best offensive team in the conference.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: For lack of a better candidate, I'll go with the Toronto Raptors.

I could see them upsetting Cleveland in the first round if the Cavs can't defend their point guards (remember what Tony Parker did to them in the Finals? Calderon and Ford could do something similar) and if Bosh gets to go one-on-one against Mr. Disinterest, Ben Wallace.

Marc Stein, ESPN.com: The instructions from our bosses were explicit: Don't answer "none." But I can't help it. I simply cannot even pretend to believe in any scenario in which Boston, Detroit or Cleveland doesn't wind up as the East champ. Sorry.

4. Who will represent the East, and will they bring home the trophy?


Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: Against long odds, my best guess is that it will be much like last year, when the Cavs surprise everyone to squeak into the NBA Finals, and when they get there they lose badly to a titan of the West.

(For the NBA's sake, I hope it's not the same titan as last year.)


J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: The Pistons are the team that's best equipped to both win the East and bring home the Larry O'Brien trophy. We keep hearing the team stat that matters the most is scoring differential, and Detroit's second in that category at almost eight points per game.

The Celtics are the leaders, but have less playoff history together than the Pistons. Give Detroit the edge in the East based on experience, and I still believe its defense can slow down whoever comes out of the West. Then they're the best in the league at exploiting favorable matchups on offense.


Chris Broussard, ESPN Mag: I've said Boston all along, and I'm sticking with the C's.

And yes, they will get the ring.


John Hollinger, ESPN.com: I'll go with Boston.

I still think it will come down to a six or seven-game grind between it and Detroit, but the Celtics look a little sharper right now and the pickup of Sam Cassell addresses one of their few concerns (backup point guard).


Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: The Celtics will represent the East after knocking off the Pistons in six in the East finals, but they won't be able to get past the Spurs, whose experience will make all the difference in June.

Like Cleveland last year, Boston will be a little too happy just to be there.


Marc Stein, ESPN.com: I'm sticking with the fast-meshing, deeper-than-forecasted Celts to take the East (and then fall to the West winners). Love the Cassell and P.J. Brown signings, especially Sam I Am and the proven lift we know he gives KG.

But I'm also sticking with Boston because I'll always try to uphold my preseason picks. (Or else why make 'em?) It's impossible in the West because trades changed the landscape so drastically, but there's no need to second-guess my East pick from October given what the Celts have shown us to date.

5. Who are the three most important people in the East so far this season?

Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: LeBron James, LeBron James and LeBron James.

I have not always been a huge fan, I am aware of his ongoing shortcomings (particularly in the post), and I see no need to hype the guy.

But if he's healthy, rested and motivated, I honestly do not know what you're supposed to do to stop him. Unless that riddle is solved, nothing else in the East will much matter.

J.A. Adande, ESPN.com:

1. The folks who ran the lottery machine: If the Celtics had landed one of the first two picks in the draft, they would be building their future around Greg Oden or Kevin Durant and would not be factors this season. Getting the fifth pick changed their entire outlook last summer.

2. Kevin Garnett: Once he arrived in Boston they started thinking about a championship immediately. He transformed the defensive mentality of the team, and holds everyone accountable for max effort every night.

3. LeBron James: If not for him, we wouldn't even be talking about Cleveland. With him on the scene, you have to give them a shot at winning the East ... unless you're pretending that last year's playoffs never happened.

Chris Broussard, ESPN Mag:

1. LeBron James: Does this even need an explanation? He's the most outstanding player in the league.

2. Kevin Garnett: He has become the backbone of the revitalized Celtics. While he's not their go-to guy, he's their inspirational leader.

3. Joe Dumars: The architect of the conference's most dominant team over the past five years. What changes will he make when the Pistons fail to reach the Finals this year?

John Hollinger, ESPN.com:

1. LeBron James: The best player in the league, the rightful MVP, and the reason you won't be able to take your eyes off the Cavs in the playoffs ... even if you'd rather not watch most of his teammates.



Understatement alert: KG and 'Sheed are of utmost importance to their teams' playoff success.

2. Rasheed Wallace: A walking time bomb, yes, but the one guy on the Pistons who can potentially neutralize Kevin Garnett. And for that reason, the key to a Celtics-Pistons conference finals matchup.

3. Doc Rivers: His willingness to set his ego aside and let assistant Tom Thibodeau scream the entire game has helped make Boston's defense the league's best; next test is his ability to slot new pickups Cassell and Brown into an already effective rotation.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com:

1. Kevin Garnett. He's intense, he's a great leader, he's still at the height of his career and he's had the Celtics atop the overall league standings since day one. Right now, he's my MVP.

2. Dwight Howard. It's easy to overlook Orlando's 40 victories and dismiss the team as a paper tiger, but it isn't. And the main reason is Superman, whom no one in the Eastern Conference can contain. If he ever could shoot FTs at an 80 percent clip, he'd win an MVP award or two.

3. LeBron James. The King keeps getting better and does something breathtaking every single night. How many players can you say that about? A big question for me: Which does he crave more, an NBA title or an Olympic gold medal?

Marc Stein, ESPN.com: I'm going to cheat and give you four:

1. The Two Kevins: Kevin Garnett for his role in resurrecting the Celts and Kevin McHale for putting KG on Danny Ainge's doorstep.

2. Joe Dumars in Detroit for having the smarts and patience to react to last season's meltdown in the Cleveland series with the calm that kept a dangerous group together and then making it a younger and deeper group with some nice tweaks.

3. LeBron for giving us an epic MVP duel with Kobe and making two 60-win teams dread seeing him in the playoffs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Roundtable-East&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

MaineRed
03-06-2008, 06:24 PM
Digging a deeper hole? You act like I'm in trouble by you or that I even care about this conversation. I also still wonder why you are so in love with your scrubs.


The 48-12 record mostly.

Not trying to act like you are in trouble. Just that you made a bunch of outrageous comments earlier.

Revering4Blue
03-06-2008, 06:42 PM
If anyone is quilty of making an outrageous comment, it's yours truly.

I'm going to retract my "Hawks are good enough to not only make the Playoffs, but also advance" comment. If they don't at least make the Playoffs, you can be sure that both Billy Knight and Mike Woodson will walk the plank, with Kiki Vandeweghe landing the G.M gig in Atlanta or New York. Why did the Nuggets fire Vandeweghe, anyway?

texasdave
03-11-2008, 11:49 AM
I have to bump this thread and tip my hat to my hometown Houston Rockets at the same time. 19 in a row is pretty impressive no matter who is lined up against you. Granted they are in a softer part of their schedule, but lots of teams over the years have had soft stretches to their schedules and haven't hung up 19 consecutive wins. In fact their current streak of 19 is the 3rd longest in NBA history. They have now won an NBA-tying 10 straight games by double-digit margins. Since Yao Ming went down they have won 7 in a row by an average of about 17 points a contest. Other streaks include 11 consecutive on the road and 13 consecutive at home. The Rockets' starting lineup without Yao consists of McGrady, Alston, Battier, Scola and Mutombo. That strikes me as an average to below-average NBA starting five. They bring off the bench the likes of Luther Head, Chuck Hayes, Carl Landry, Steve Novak, Bobby Jackson, Mike Harris, Aaron Brooks and Justin Williams. Most folks would consider that a weak bench. And all they do is continue to roll teams. Tracy McGrady has taken a ton of flak for both being soft and not getting his team past the first round of the playoffs, but he is currently playing at a level that few players in this league can match. Stealing a line from Bum Phillips, 'He may not be in a class by himself, but it doesn't take long to call the roll'. The streak is not gonna last forever and the Rockets may once again get bounced early in the playoffs, but this sure is fun while it lasts. So here's to my Houston Rockets. :thumbup::beerme::thumbup:

PS Another fun fact. They have won 28 out of their last 31 games. In the three losses they held fourth quarter leads in all three (in two games they held double-digit fourth quarter leads). And in each of the three losses they were without either Yao or T-Mac.

Unassisted
03-11-2008, 12:01 PM
I have to bump this thread and tip my hat to my hometown Houston Rockets at the same time. 19 in a row is pretty impressive no matter who is lined up against you.
I agree. The Rockets run is noteworthy because it's something that only 4 teams in the history of the NBA have done. It's also timely because they've swept their way to second place in the division and the third seed in the west, with the playoffs just around the corner.

They will face quite a gauntlet next week with games against Boston, New Orleans, Golden State and Phoenix.

Danny Serafini
03-11-2008, 12:12 PM
Is it just me, or is it a tad funky that the Bobcats are 13 games worse than the Nuggets but closer to a playoff spot? That's some weird stuff.

NJReds
03-24-2008, 05:19 PM
The league really should do something about the way the Heat have tanked the season. The coach abandon the team to "scout" NCAA players and their best player misses the last few months of the season "injured."

Stern should relegate them to the back of the lottery.

WMR
03-24-2008, 05:25 PM
Yeah, the way teams in the NBA "tank" the last quarter--OR EVEN MORE!!--of their season to improve their number of ping pong balls is really obnoxious.

15fan
03-24-2008, 05:36 PM
Yeah, the way teams in the NBA "tank" the last quarter--OR EVEN MORE!!--of their season to improve their number of ping pong balls is really obnoxious.

Kinda like Cleveland did the year that LeBron was a senior in HS...

WMR
03-24-2008, 05:37 PM
C'mon you don't honestly believe that that WASN'T fixed, do ya?

NJReds
03-24-2008, 05:46 PM
Yeah, the way teams in the NBA "tank" the last quarter--OR EVEN MORE!!--of their season to improve their number of ping pong balls is really obnoxious.

It's one thing to "tank." Like the Knicks, for instance, playing all of the rookies.

Miami has taken it to a whole new level. The coach leaves and the best player gets an early vacation.

Can you imagine if an NFL team's coach just left the team to go watch college games and their star QB was benched with 6 games left in the season?

HumnHilghtFreel
03-24-2008, 08:05 PM
The league really should do something about the way the Heat have tanked the season. The coach abandon the team to "scout" NCAA players and their best player misses the last few months of the season "injured."

Stern should relegate them to the back of the lottery.

In Wade's defense... he hasn't truly been 100% all year, so I don't mind them shutting him down. The thing with Riley is very disrespectful to those remaining on the team and the rest of the league though, IMO.

My ideal NBA happenings would be to have the NBA playoffs shortened. Maybe make it 6 teams from each conference making it instead of 8. As it stands, I hate that half the league makes it in. Then I would work on a list of teams to contract(mainly teams that are newer or that don't have much of a history), as having fewer playoff spots would lead to more teams "tanking." Refill the talent depth in the league with a few fewer teams and fewer playoff spots.

I know this will never happen though... especially with Stern talking about expanding the league even further.

SteelSD
03-25-2008, 12:05 AM
Geez. Someone break up the Sixers. Over their first 20 games this season, the Sixers' record was 7-13 and they looked dead in the water. They finished decently in December, but then again appeared ready to purchase tickets to the 2008 NBA Draft Lottery with a 4-up/11-down January.

Since then, they're 18 and 7 to the good side, have been 10-2 in March, and after mid-February they've beaten Orlando, San Antonio, and Denver at home and Phoenix, Detroit, and now Boston (tonight) on the Road.

TeamSelig
03-25-2008, 12:16 AM
I think they need to include the 8th seed in the lottery, and increase the chances of the latter teams getting a top pick. Also increase the lottery selections to the top 6 picks.

This should make borderline playoff teams actually try to make the playoffs instead of just losing out the last few games for a better pick.

Maybe once a team clinches a spot in the playoffs then the games no longer count... just an idea

MaineRed
06-22-2008, 12:51 AM
Have to say looking back on this thread it makes me feel good to be validated. All season long everyone and their brother discarded the Celtics. I can only imagine how redszone would react if the Reds spent the ENTIRE season as the top team and was being written off by all but their loyal fans. Well that is what the Celtics dealt with all season. No bench, no depth, weak support, bad coach, too many minutes for big 3, no experience in play-offs, no this that and the other. Can't win a road game, can't beat Detroit, can't beat the Lakers. ALL season.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. ALL OF YOU!! Reminds me of college football season.

Team Selig especially. WRONG. Kendrick Perkins is a fine NBA center. Leon Powe does belong on an NBA roster and despite his "attitude problems" James Posey has now helped two teams win NBA titles.

NOBODY bought what this team was doing. NOBODY.

Go Celtics. Go SEC!

Razor Shines
06-22-2008, 01:07 AM
Well I certainly didn't say the Celts couldn't win it, but I think I was right about Cassell though. I think I said that he and Finley were comparable players when they were both on good teams. I thought that Cassell would play a little better than he did, but he did help the Celtics.

MaineRed
06-22-2008, 07:31 AM
Of course he's a great pick up for Boston, I never said he wasn't. My point was that he won't average more than 8-10 pts a game for the Celtics, not because he can't, but because they won't need more than that out of him. The same with Finley for SA.

In Game 6 of the Finals Doc Rivers never even called Sam's name. Had the Spurs been playing, Mike Finley would have started for them. That is why the Celtics are champs and it is what I was saying all along, even before they got Sam Cassell. The bench and the supporting players (Rondo) were a lot better than folks realized. TeamSelig was using Brian Scalabrine as a reason the Celtics bench was weak. He spent the entire post season in street clothes. He'd get 20 minutes a night on the mighty Spurs.