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GoReds33
11-06-2007, 06:51 PM
From ESPN:

2007 Gold Glove Winners
Pos. AL NL
P Johan Santana Greg Maddux
C Ivan Rodriguez Russell Martin
1B Kevin Youkilis Derrek Lee
2B Placido Polanco Orlando Hudson
SS Orlando Cabrera Jimmy Rollins
3B David Wright Adrian Beltre
OF Carlos Beltran
Torii Hunter *Jeff Francoeur
Grady Sizemore Andruw Jones
Ichiro Suzuki *Aaron Rowand

* -- Tied in outfield voting

Phillips gets snubbed. This just goes to show the voters don't know what they're doing.

HalMorrisRules
11-06-2007, 06:54 PM
Outright shame. I wonder if they will release the vote totals.

Degenerate39
11-06-2007, 07:06 PM
I'm not surprised Phillips didn't get it.

jimbo
11-06-2007, 07:15 PM
I'm not surprised Phillips didn't get it.

I'm not either, simply because of who he plays for.

Screwball
11-06-2007, 07:16 PM
In fairness, the esteemed panelists of The Fielding Bible (http://www.fieldingbible.com/) had Orlando Hudson ahead of Phillips as well. It's disappointing B-Phil didn't win, but at least it went to a deserving player.

fadetoblack2880
11-06-2007, 07:21 PM
It doesn't matter how good Phillips is, until the Reds start winning he'll remain without a Gold Glove.

VI_RedsFan
11-06-2007, 07:45 PM
As much as I love Phillips, O-Dawg deserved it more than him. I'd be disappointed if it had gone to anyone else over Brandon.

CarolinaRedleg
11-06-2007, 07:47 PM
First Harang getting shut out in the Cy Young voting last year, now this. :thumbdown

foxfire123
11-06-2007, 08:03 PM
I'm not either, simply because of who he plays for.

Yup. Hubby and I had a bet, and I won. I just knew he'd be ignored just as Bret Boone was years ago....

I have little to no respect left for the Gold Glove--it's gotten to be too much of a Mr. Popularity contest instead of the honor it truly should be.

*BaseClogger*
11-06-2007, 10:58 PM
So which Tiger choice is the bigger mistake... Including Pudge or snubbing Curtis Granderson?

Dunner44
11-06-2007, 11:09 PM
Does David Wright really deserve it at 3B? All I remember is him pacing Encarnacion with respect to rookie 3B errors last year, so granted I don't have a huge feel for his defense this year, but was he that much better?

And, of course, B-Phil was robbed.

Screwball
11-06-2007, 11:16 PM
I think Ryan Braun should've won it for 3rd.

jcmac3
11-06-2007, 11:20 PM
Well lets not let facts get in the way but this bothers me.

BP = .990 FP , 8 errors, 113 DPs, 341 POs in 156 games

Hudson = .985 FP, 10 errors, 96 DPs, 258 POs in 137 games

So BP had a better %, less errors in more games, about the same DPs when looking at games played (althought DPs depend on more than the 2B).

I think Phillips gets hosed because he plays for the reds obviously, why not make the Gold Glove legit and base it on stats????

AdamDunn
11-07-2007, 01:19 AM
Does anyone else think Ross should win the Gold Glove?

Dunner44
11-07-2007, 01:48 AM
Does anyone else think Ross should win the Gold Glove?

Well he clearly wasn't getting playing time because of his bat...

GoReds33
11-07-2007, 08:27 AM
I think Ryan Braun should've won it for 3rd.:D:D:D

Ahhhorsepoo
11-07-2007, 11:44 AM
B Phill got hosed.. while hudson might be good.. c'mon B phill kept the reds close to almost contention.. without his glove and bat I could seen this team win 55 games...
Hudson didnt even play the whole year.. I am done with this bull****.. Until people realize players like B-phill get snubbed every year.. show you how dumb they are.. or is it posters on redzone... who said andruw jones isnt a good fielder anymore so they wouldnt want him.. he got a GG.. soo either they are dumb.. or we are dumb.. I think it is them b/c B-phill deserved that more, because even though GG doesnt mean a good hitter, the 30-30 should have swung them toward bphill.. and while andruw jones isnt bad.. he isnt one of the top 4 outfielders in the league...

bounty37h
11-07-2007, 01:41 PM
As much as I love Phillips, O-Dawg deserved it more than him. I'd be disappointed if it had gone to anyone else over Brandon.

VI Reds fan, how you figure O-Dawg deserved it more then B-Dawg? This season, Orlando Hudson played in 137 games and had a .985 Fielding percentage making 10 errors. Phillips played in 156 games with a .990 Fielding percentage and made 8 errors.

Hudson hit .295 in 137 games with 10 HRs and 63 RBIs.

Phillips hit .288 in 156 games with 30 HRs and 94 RBIs.

*BaseClogger*
11-07-2007, 02:34 PM
B Phill got hosed.. while hudson might be good.. c'mon B phill kept the reds close to almost contention.. without his glove and bat I could seen this team win 55 games...
Hudson didnt even play the whole year.. I am done with this bull****.. Until people realize players like B-phill get snubbed every year.. show you how dumb they are.. or is it posters on redzone... who said andruw jones isnt a good fielder anymore so they wouldnt want him.. he got a GG.. soo either they are dumb.. or we are dumb.. I think it is them b/c B-phill deserved that more, because even though GG doesnt mean a good hitter, the 30-30 should have swung them toward bphill.. and while andruw jones isnt bad.. he isnt one of the top 4 outfielders in the league...


Brandon Phillips had a VORP of 37.2. He DID NOT win us an additional 17 games...

Jay Bruce
11-07-2007, 02:46 PM
VI Reds fan, how you figure O-Dawg deserved it more then B-Dawg? This season, Orlando Hudson played in 137 games and had a .985 Fielding percentage making 10 errors. Phillips played in 156 games with a .990 Fielding percentage and made 8 errors.

Hudson hit .295 in 137 games with 10 HRs and 63 RBIs.

Phillips hit .288 in 156 games with 30 HRs and 94 RBIs.

While Phillips was very good this year, Hudson was probably better. Fielding percentage is not the best measure of a fielders performance, since it really doesn't say anything about their range. This year, Hudson made 58 plays deemed out of zone for the average 2nd baseman, in 137 games. In 156 games, Phillips only made 49 plays out of zone. When you couple the superior range with only a negligibly worse fielding percentage, Hudson looks like a player very deserving of the Gold Glove.

bounty37h
11-07-2007, 03:45 PM
Wouldnt out of zone mean hits, not errors, if play not made then? If so, then he still has more errors the B-phil in less opp's.

Jay Bruce
11-07-2007, 05:25 PM
Hudson saved 9 potential hits that Phillips couldn't get to, in 19 less games. To me, that is more important than the two extra errors Hudson made. Hudson definitely deserves the honor.

Dunner44
11-07-2007, 07:51 PM
Hudson saved 9 potential hits that Phillips couldn't get to, in 19 less games. To me, that is more important than the two extra errors Hudson made. Hudson definitely deserves the honor.

This is something to consider, but so is B-Phil's arm. While assists mean less for infileders than outfielders, Phillips had 433 to 387 for Hudson. While this is somewhat a function of balls hit to the fielder, who doesn't remember plays like the double play against the Braves to seal a 15 inning win or him throwing out a baserunner from home team foul territory while moving backwards? O-Dawg certainly makes amazing plays too, but Brandon's number of DPs was higher as well.

Also, ESPN lists Phillips as having a higher range factor (17 points higher than O), and his zone rating is only four points lower.

Dunner44
11-07-2007, 07:56 PM
Ok, D Wright has 21 errors vs. 24 DPs.... How the hell did he beat out Feliz or Ramirez? Feliz - 11 errors to 28 DPs, Ramirez - 10 errors, 19 DPs. And both have higher fielding percentages.

Wright got the glove because he went 30-30 in a big market... sigh.

Bip Roberts
11-07-2007, 07:56 PM
if anyone should have won it over phillips it was utley

*BaseClogger*
11-07-2007, 08:51 PM
if anyone should have won it over phillips it was utley

Is Utley that strong of a fielder? Or are you just saying this sarcastically because Utley is a tremendous hitter and is in a big market?

Bip Roberts
11-07-2007, 09:01 PM
Is Utley that strong of a fielder? Or are you just saying this sarcastically because Utley is a tremendous hitter and is in a big market?

im fairly certain he is a pretty good fielder

*BaseClogger*
11-07-2007, 09:08 PM
im fairly certain he is a pretty good fielder

To be honest, I have seen people rank him highly for his defense but assumed it was the standard good-hitting in a big market factor that had him listed. If you have seen him play some defense, then I believe you...

Bip Roberts
11-07-2007, 09:23 PM
To be honest, I have seen people rank him highly for his defense but assumed it was the standard good-hitting in a big market factor that had him listed. If you have seen him play some defense, then I believe you...

well based on zone raitings and range factors hes better than phillips

but hey D lee won it this year and he had a really bad year

and omar should have won the SS gold glove

*BaseClogger*
11-07-2007, 09:31 PM
well based on zone raitings and range factors hes better than phillips

but hey D lee won it this year and he had a really bad year

and omar should have won the SS gold glove

something I read on FJM recently said that Vizquel had a below average range factor...

Bip Roberts
11-07-2007, 09:33 PM
something I read on FJM recently said that Vizquel had a below average range factor...

highest among NL short stops

Screwball
11-07-2007, 09:43 PM
im fairly certain he is a pretty good fielder

Yep. Last year he was +22 in fielding alone. Couple that with his offensive prowess, and Chase Utley is one helluva player.

*BaseClogger*
11-07-2007, 09:44 PM
highest among NL short stops

well know that I think about it, that post was from 2005 so maybe he just had a bad season...

Stephenk29
11-12-2007, 03:26 PM
You know a lot of people on here keep talking about the Reds needing a new catcher. If David Ross played about 30 more games he probably gets a Gold Glove. He had a fielding percentage of .998 compared to Martin's .988. He had 9 less errors, and threw out a much higher percentage of base runners. Granted he played only 100 games, he's not going to have a whole lot more errors though. I think Martin's award is not deserved, he mostly got it because he hit for a high average while catching. He has one of the highest error totals of all MLB catchers.

mroby85
11-12-2007, 03:32 PM
I don't think the defense of Ross is what everyones gripe is about, i think the problem with him, at least from my point of view is his average that hovers around 200.

Stephenk29
11-12-2007, 05:12 PM
I don't think the defense of Ross is what everyones gripe is about, i think the problem with him, at least from my point of view is his average that hovers around 200.

I agree, but I think its hard to deal away with those defensive stats. Offensive isn't our main concern anyhow. His .998 fielding percentage was tied for top in the majors among regulars.

Dunner44
11-12-2007, 06:37 PM
I agree, but I think its hard to deal away with those defensive stats. Offensive isn't our main concern anyhow. His .998 fielding percentage was tied for top in the majors among regulars.

The only problem with this is Ross is viewed as soft if a runner is going to railroad him and he also has trouble converting throws from the outfield into outs.