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OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 11:56 AM
2004 undefeated Auburn says hi? :evil:

I agree the BCS is ridiculous, but there's no way the Pac-10 leaving it would be in their best interests, unless they had another major conference join them.

Auburn was a different story. Oklahoma is the BCS's darling so there was no way they could jump Auburn over them. If that had been another team Auburn would have jumped them IMO.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 12:01 PM
BTW, I'm reading that there could be a split title this year. If that's the case, if Hawaii beats Georgia in the Sugar Bowl then I think they deserve a split NC.

Danny Serafini
12-02-2007, 12:38 PM
Most of the computer polls won't come out until 8, but Sagarin's is out now. If the others follow the same way it's great news for LSU. VT jumped from 4 to 1. LSU jumped all the way from 8 to 2, meaning a nice gain relative to VT. Georgia fell from 6 to 7. The computers were LSU's problem, if they keep making gains like this (which I did not expect) they're in.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 12:48 PM
LSwho will be the least deserving team of all-time to reach the NC. Congrats BCS, you suck. They should rename it the SECBCS.

WMR
12-02-2007, 12:55 PM
LSwho will be the least deserving team of all-time to reach the NC. Congrats BCS, you suck. They should rename it the SECBCS.

:laugh::dancingco

Don't hate us cuz you ain't us.

BuckWoody
12-02-2007, 12:59 PM
Most of the computer polls won't come out until 8, but Sagarin's is out now. If the others follow the same way it's great news for LSU. VT jumped from 4 to 1. LSU jumped all the way from 8 to 2, meaning a nice gain relative to VT. Georgia fell from 6 to 7. The computers were LSU's problem, if they keep making gains like this (which I did not expect) they're in.
I was going to question where you got VT and LSU at #1 and #2 but I saw it after a while (the ELO_CHESS component). Here is the Sagarin top twenty after yesterday's games for reference:

College Football 2007 through games of December 1 Saturday the BCS uses the ELO_CHESS from here
HOME ADVANTAGE= 2.59 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | ELO_CHESS | PREDICTOR
1 Oklahoma A = 92.58 11 2 70.34( 59) 2 0 | 3 1 | 89.47 3 | 96.27 1
2 Ohio State A = 91.32 11 1 70.32( 60) 0 0 | 2 1 | 89.01 4 | 93.64 3
3 Kansas A = 90.29 11 1 65.42( 88) 0 1 | 0 1 | 88.72 5 | 91.60 6
4 Florida A = 90.22 9 3 75.74( 9) 0 2 | 2 3 | 86.26 12 | 95.52 2
5 Virginia Tech A = 89.69 11 2 73.00( 36) 0 1 | 2 2 | 93.11 1 | 86.82 11
6 LSU A = 89.47 11 2 74.86( 21) 2 0 | 4 2 | 91.09 2 | 87.73 8
7 West Virginia A = 89.34 10 2 72.71( 42) 0 0 | 2 1 | 86.38 11 | 92.64 4
8 Southern California A = 88.22 10 2 73.66( 32) 0 0 | 2 1 | 86.78 9 | 89.36 7
9 Missouri A = 87.98 11 2 74.77( 24) 1 2 | 3 2 | 88.58 6 | 87.04 10
10 Georgia A = 86.70 10 2 74.14( 30) 1 0 | 3 1 | 88.28 7 | 84.97 14
College Football 2007 through games of December 1 Saturday the BCS uses the ELO_CHESS from here
HOME ADVANTAGE= 2.59 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | ELO_CHESS | PREDICTOR
11 Arizona State A = 86.24 10 2 74.16( 29) 0 1 | 1 2 | 86.00 13 | 86.07 12
12 South Florida A = 85.47 9 3 74.45( 28) 1 0 | 2 2 | 83.60 15 | 87.13 9
13 Oregon A = 85.40 8 4 76.03( 7) 1 0 | 3 1 | 80.75 26 | 91.85 5
14 Clemson A = 84.07 9 3 72.67( 43) 0 1 | 0 2 | 85.08 14 | 82.79 19
15 Cincinnati A = 83.70 9 3 69.43( 66) 0 1 | 3 1 | 81.67 22 | 85.54 13
16 Hawaii A = 83.07 12 0 56.50( 137) 0 0 | 1 0 | 87.13 8 | 79.67 30
17 Tennessee A = 82.26 9 4 75.34( 14) 1 2 | 3 2 | 83.00 17 | 81.20 25
18 Auburn A = 82.18 8 4 72.37( 48) 1 2 | 2 3 | 82.06 19 | 81.88 22
19 Boston College A = 82.17 10 3 73.98( 31) 1 1 | 2 1 | 86.77 10 | 78.45 35
20 Oregon State A = 82.06 8 4 75.25( 17) 0 1 | 1 3 | 81.81 21 | 81.91 21

MWM
12-02-2007, 01:07 PM
:laugh::dancingco

Don't hate us cuz you ain't us.

dude, you follow UK. Stop trying to lump yourself in with the real SEC. :p: UK is a liability to the "best conference" debate, not an asset.

Danny Serafini
12-02-2007, 01:12 PM
Hey now, they were SEC co-champs in 1976. 31 years ago isn't that long. :laugh:

WMR
12-02-2007, 01:18 PM
http://www.southparkx.net/gallery/data/media/27/cartman.jpg

"Ahhhhhh screw you guys, Ahm goin home."

WMR
12-02-2007, 01:19 PM
DUH, MWM, we beat LSU, so if LSU wins the National Championship... well...

... CONNECT THE DOTS. :laugh:

Danny Serafini
12-02-2007, 01:31 PM
Yeah, but their JV team lost to something called The Harmony Community School, so factor that in! Heck, I didn't know colleges even had JV teams anymore.

WMR
12-02-2007, 01:33 PM
Yeah, but their JV team lost to something called The Harmony Community School, so factor that in! Heck, I didn't know colleges even had JV teams anymore.

:eek:

Sounds like a bunch of band geeks whipped 'em. :laugh:

Reds Fanatic
12-02-2007, 03:22 PM
Here are the final polls. BCS will be announced tonight at 8.




AP Poll
1. Ohio State (50) 11-1 1,578
2. LSU (11) 11-2 1,519
3. Oklahoma (1) 11-2 1,423
4. Georgia (1) 10-2 1,421
5. Virginia Tech (1) 11-2 1,380
6. USC 10-2 1,346
7. Missouri 11-2 1,195
8. Kansas 11-1 1,164
9. Florida 9-3 1,071
10. Hawaii (1) 12-0 1,050
11. West Virginia 10-2 1,040
12. Arizona State 10-2 939
13. Illinois 9-3 797
14. Boston College 10-3 668
15. Clemson 9-3 614
16. Tennessee 9-4 554
17. Texas 9-3 517
18. Wisconsin 9-3 447
19. Brigham Young 10-2 439
20. Cincinnati 9-3 394
21. Virginia 9-3 344
22. Auburn 8-4 264
23. South Florida 9-3 246
24. Boise State 10-2 221
25. Arkansas 8-4 173
Others Receiving Votes
Texas Tech 137, UCF 35, Connecticut 31, Oregon 30, Oregon State 30, Michigan 26, Air Force 17, Kentucky 13, Penn State 1, Wake Forest 1.
Dropped From Rankings
Oregon 18.
Complete Rankings


USA Today Poll
1. Ohio State (46) 11-1 1,469
2. LSU (11) 11-2 1,418
3. Oklahoma (2) 11-2 1,331
4. Georgia 10-2 1,277
5. Virginia Tech 11-2 1,242
6. USC 10-2 1,227
7. Missouri 11-2 1,104
8. Kansas 11-1 1,099
9. West Virginia 10-2 1,010
10. Hawaii (1) 12-0 994
11. Arizona State 10-2 900
12. Florida 9-3 890
13. Illinois 9-3 747
14. Boston College 10-3 617
15. Wisconsin 9-3 594
16. Clemson 9-3 567
17. Texas 9-3 498
18. Tennessee 9-4 480
19. Brigham Young 10-2 462
20. Virginia 9-3 332
21. Auburn 8-4 289
22. Boise State 10-2 246
23. Cincinnati 9-3 215
24. Arkansas 8-4 137
25. South Florida 9-3 115
Others Receiving Votes
Texas Tech 52, UCF 51, Connecticut 23, Oregon State 23, Penn State 23, Michigan 22, Air Force 20, Oregon 9, Utah 6, Wake Forest 4, Michigan State 3, Houston 3, Tulsa 1.
Dropped From Rankings
Oregon 20.

Cyclone792
12-02-2007, 03:35 PM
Here are the final polls. BCS will be announced tonight at 8.

After seeing the results of the USA Today poll, it's going to be LSU. They jumped from 7th with a .7560 BCS share from the USA Today all the way up to 2nd with their USA Today BCS share now being .9453. That's far ahead of Oklahoma's .8873, Georgia's .8513, and Virginia Tech's .8280.

The USA Today poll was where LSU needed to make the biggest gains, and those 11 first place votes and 1,418 points for LSU got them a bundle of points which really beefed up their USA Today BCS share.

The Tigers have over a month to get Dorsey healthy now and grab that national championship.

LoganBuck
12-02-2007, 03:42 PM
The Tigers have over a month to get Dorsey healthy now and grab that national championship.

Ohio State's center Cordle has been playing all season with a cast on his right hand, snapping with his left, and he has had trouble with big DTs. I think the cast will be off by the game. It could be interesting to see him healthy versus Dorsey. It certainly will be a matchup to watch.

MWM
12-02-2007, 03:47 PM
Yeah, Dorsey will be key and totally changes the makeup of that defense. Although, the guy he's going against isn't bad either.

It should be a pretty good game. Either team is capable of winning. The key will be OSU's offensive line's ability to open up holes for Chris Wells. I think both defenses will be the best each team has seen all year.

Caveat Emperor
12-02-2007, 03:53 PM
OSU v. LSU looks pretty inevitable at this point.

Its too bad really -- I'd enjoy the opportunity to watch OSU/USC. I think that'd be a very good game.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 03:53 PM
What a disgrace. LSwho lost to a 7-5 and 8-4 team, one of those losses came just last week and now they are putting them into the NC?!? Amazing. SEC bias is killing college football.

LSwho could have easily lost to Florida, Auburn, Alabama, and Tennessee if not for some serious chokejobs by those teams.

MWM
12-02-2007, 03:53 PM
This year will be a lot different than last year for the Buckeyes. Last year, they were favorites and the masses pretty much thought OSU would win fairly easily (I always though FL had a great chance to win). This year, I think the consensus is going to be LSU will roll.

I kind of feel of Oklahoma. I've always thought they were over-rated in the polls every year. But but they made a statement yesterday and both losses came with their fantastic QB hurt. While I would put LSU ahead of them, I think they've got every reason to be upset. Of course, so does USC. This whole thing is silly.

guttle11
12-02-2007, 03:54 PM
Its too bad really -- I'd enjoy the opportunity to watch OSU/USC. I think that'd be a very good game.

No worries. You'll get to see that the next two Septembers.

Caveat Emperor
12-02-2007, 04:00 PM
I kind of feel of Oklahoma. I've always thought they were over-rated in the polls every year. But but they made a statement yesterday and both losses came with their fantastic QB hurt. While I would put LSU ahead of them, I think they've got every reason to be upset. Of course, so does USC. This whole thing is silly.

Its all beyond stupid. You can make a very legitimate argument for LSU, USC, Oklahoma, and (possibly) Virginia Tech all being deserving of a shot at the national title game.

Only someone with a dog in the fight would say that one of those 4 teams is clearly the correct selection for the national championship game.

USC is playing the best football in the country right now, IMO. Oklahoma just *destroyed* the #1 team in the nation. LSU got taken to OT in both its losses, but they were both to teams they definitely should've beaten.

If you are going to penalize USC for losing to bad teams, why in the world is LSU taking it on the chin for losing to Arkansas?

This whole system is stupid and ridiculous.

MWM
12-02-2007, 04:07 PM
Only someone with a dog in the fight would say that one of those 4 teams is clearly the correct selection for the national championship game.


Yep. And most years you could say the exact same thing.

RBA
12-02-2007, 04:10 PM
Big media out here in SoCal pretty much has USC going to the Rose Bowl.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 04:27 PM
Big media out here in SoCal pretty much has USC going to the Rose Bowl.

Perfectly fine with me. SC didn't deserve a NC title this year. The Rose Bowl is far and away my favorite bowl.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 05:04 PM
UK is a liability to the "best conference" debate, not an asset.

They are 33rd in the BCS rankings. They are 23rd in Sagarin's ratings. They are just outside the top 25 in the Harris Poll which is 1/3 of the BCS.

Penn State is ranked 32 and Michigan 29. Are those teams liabilities or does the cut-off begin at Kentucky?

Seriously?

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 05:09 PM
I have a feeling Todd Boeckman is going to do something that "the great" Tim Tebow couldn't do, and that is carve up the overrated LSwho defense.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 05:23 PM
If you are going to penalize USC for losing to bad teams, why in the world is LSU taking it on the chin for losing to Arkansas?

This whole system is stupid and ridiculous.

I agree, the system is stupid. I'm as big of a proponent of a play-off as there is.

But the current system has to vote someone in, don't they? If not LSU, who?

I think most agreed Georgia and Kansas had to be dropped down. I think it made sense. The simple fact that their leagues were running title games that they weren't invited to was telling enough to move all the teams that did win titles this weekend, by winning games, up the ladder.

When you dropped Mizzou, WVU, Georgia and Kansas that left one team for LSU to leapfrog and it was a team that utterly destroyed, overrated D and all, 44-7.

I'm with you, the system sucks and I really didn't think LSU was going to be able to climb all those teams but with the explanations that started last night I could start to see it wasn't doubtful but probable.

As for the loss to Arkansas, USC lost to Stanford. Stanford is 77 in the BCS rankings while Arkansas is 27. Just like Kentucky people might think they stink but these teams are top 35 teams. Middle of the pack teams in a very deep and talented league. They aren't Stanford.

pedro
12-02-2007, 06:16 PM
OSU v. LSU looks pretty inevitable at this point.

Its too bad really -- I'd enjoy the opportunity to watch OSU/USC. I think that'd be a very good game.

I was really looking forward to not watching Ohio State in the NC game myself.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 06:47 PM
The LA Times has leaked out some of the BCS results.

-OSU will play average LSwho in the NC game.

-USC will play Illinois in the Rose Bowl. Lose-lose situation for USC IMO. If USC wins then the experts will say of couse they should beat Illinois. If they lose they will drop like a rock in the polls. Also, with Illinois receiving a BCS berth it means Arizona State will not receive one. Amazing. The Pac-10 needs to pull out of the BCS. This happens every year.

-Hawaii will play in the Sugar Bowl.

That's all the LA Times is reporting so far.

Danny Serafini
12-02-2007, 07:09 PM
Illinois getting a BCS berth doesn't mean Arizona St. doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Arizona St. in the Fiesta Bowl.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 07:09 PM
USC will play Illinois in the Rose Bowl. Lose-lose situation for USC Amazing. The Pac-10 needs to pull out of the BCS. This happens every year.

:cry:

Can the SEC have the available automatic bid to the Rose Bowl?

WMR
12-02-2007, 07:09 PM
They are 33rd in the BCS rankings. They are 23rd in Sagarin's ratings. They are just outside the top 25 in the Harris Poll which is 1/3 of the BCS.

Penn State is ranked 32 and Michigan 29. Are those teams liabilities or does the cut-off begin at Kentucky?

Seriously?

:lol:

Don't interfere with their SEC trashing.

Just wait and let the results speak for themselves.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 07:14 PM
Illinois getting a BCS berth doesn't mean Arizona St. doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Arizona St. in the Fiesta Bowl.

Rose: USC-Illinois
Orange: WVU-VaTech
Sugar: Hawaii-Georgia
Fiesta: Oklahoma-????

I doubt it will be ASU since they won't bring any fans into town.

If I was the Fiesta I would take Florida. Florida vs. OU would be a heck of a match-up.

BuckeyeRed27
12-02-2007, 07:16 PM
Rose: USC-Illinois
Orange: WVU-VaTech
Sugar: Hawaii-Georgia
Fiesta: Oklahoma-????

I doubt it will be ASU since they won't bring any fans into town.

If I was the Fiesta I would take Florida. Florida vs. OU would be a heck of a match-up.

Can't do it. That would be 3 SEC teams.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 07:16 PM
I was really hoping USC would get a chance to kick another SEC teams butt.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 07:17 PM
Good point. Probably Kansas then. Sooners vs. Jayhawks with Wayman Tisdale and Danny Manning as honorary captains.

WMR
12-02-2007, 07:18 PM
I was really hoping USC would get a chance to kick another SEC teams butt.

:lol:

Just stay in the PAC-10 and be happy you don't have to play a truly grueling schedule like the SEC East.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 07:18 PM
:lol:

Just stay in the PAC-10 and be happy you don't have to play a truly grueling schedule like the SEC East.

The 7th best team in the Pac-10 this year beat the SEC East champ by two touchdowns.

MWM
12-02-2007, 07:19 PM
:lol:

Don't interfere with their SEC trashing.

Lame. Well, I was joking, which is why I had the smiley. But with the exception of this year, what I said was correct.



Just wait and let the results speak for themselves.

And since we're talking results, over the past 10 season, the SEC and Big Ten are dead even in bowl games. There's no SEC hate, it's just exhaustion from SEC arrogance. They are the toughest conference, but it's not the Great Divide that many among us try to portray.

WMR
12-02-2007, 07:20 PM
The 7th best team in the Pac-10 this year beat the SEC East champ by two touchdowns.

Right, and that one result proves everything.

Was that game played in Cali or in Knoxville?

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 07:21 PM
I was really hoping USC would get a chance to kick another SEC teams butt.

:cry:

WMR
12-02-2007, 07:21 PM
Lame. Well, I was joking, which is why I had the smiley. But with the exception of this year, what I said was correct.


Just wait and let the results speak for themselves.

And since we're talking results, over the past 10 season, the SEC and Big Ten are dead even in bowl games. There's no SEC hate, it's just exhaustion from SEC arrogance. They are the toughest conference, but it's not the Great Divide that many among us try to portray.

I was joking too.

HEY DON'T FORGET ABOUT LAST YEAR!!! :lol:

How quickly you forget our first bowl win in 30 years.

Sorry, MWM, SOMEBODY has to stick up for the SEC in this thread. The trashing is getting pretty ridiculous.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 07:22 PM
And since we're talking results, over the past 10 season, the SEC and Big Ten are dead even in bowl games.

SEC 9 OHIO STATE 0

:beerme:

KronoRed
12-02-2007, 07:23 PM
Sorry, MWM, SOMEBODY has to stick up for the SEC in this thread. The trashing is getting pretty ridiculous.

Eh just let it go, Everyone has a bias, some smaller some larger

WMR
12-02-2007, 07:24 PM
Eh just let it go, Everyone has a bias, some smaller some larger

The Krono ZEN MASTER Approach. :lol: ;)

MWM
12-02-2007, 07:25 PM
Sorry, MWM, SOMEBODY has to stick up for the SEC in this thread. The trashing is getting pretty ridiculous.

This so-called trashing is a direct result of the blatant arrogance and condescension displayed by a couple of people acting like the SEC can do no wrong and no one else is capable or staying on the field with any team in the SEC (hyperbole is fun, isn't it).


That's my last comment on this tired topic. These conference comparison debates have officially reached "Dunn strikes out too much and isn't clutch" proportions. Everyone has their bias and no one wants to listen to anything that threatens their POV.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 07:27 PM
This so-called trashing is a direct result of the blatant arrogance and condescension displayed by a couple of people acting like the SEC can do no wrong and no one else is capable or staying on the field with any team in the SEC (hyperbole is fun, isn't it).

.

Thank you. Thank you very much. You hit the nail on the head.

WMR
12-02-2007, 07:28 PM
This so-called trashing is a direct result of the blatant arrogance and condescension displayed by a couple of people acting like the SEC can do no wrong and no one else is capable or staying on the field with any team in the SEC (hyperbole is fun, isn't it).


That's my last comment on this tired topic. These conference comparison debates have officially reached "Dunn strikes out too much and isn't clutch" proportions. Everyone has their bias and no one wants to listen to anything that threatens their POV.

I don't mind listening to things that threaten my POV. I certainly don't consider myself the final opinion on college football. Just having some fun. I do understand what you are saying though.

Chip R
12-02-2007, 07:28 PM
The LA Times has leaked out some of the BCS results.

-OSU will play average LSwho in the NC game.



I wouldn't talk so much about LSU being average. Fans who live in glass stadiums shouldn't throw footballs.

WMR
12-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Fans who live in glass stadiums shouldn't throw footballs.

SIG WORTHY!!!

:lol: Did you read that on a fortune cookie, chip??? LMAO

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 07:32 PM
I wouldn't talk so much about LSU being average. Fans who live in glass stadiums shouldn't throw footballs.

FWIW, I've said many times that my team didn't deserve to play for a NC this year.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 07:34 PM
The SEC came up when people started it trashing it for no reason. Surrprise, surprise, some people stand up for things that are said that just aren't true.

There is a lot of baiting going on in this thread by one person in particular and he isn't a fan of the SEC. It is quite clear. He has started up in the Tebow thread as well. It is 100% baiting and does nothing to create decent conversation.

Nobody is running around making a point of saying how great the SEC is. But there are folks who run around and claim that people are driving it down their throats. I just don't see it. When discussing a bunch of two loss conference champions it is relevant which conference is better whether you like it or not.

The attacks on the SEC are ridiculous and the attack on Kentucky wasn't very well thought out.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 07:37 PM
Wily Mo, check your PM's.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 07:47 PM
Yeah, check, your PM so he can fill you in on what he is up to which is posting baiting material to try to set me off.

Tell me I'm wrong WMR.

George Foster
12-02-2007, 08:01 PM
The SEC came up when people started it trashing it for no reason. Surrprise, surprise, some people stand up for things that are said that just aren't true.

There is a lot of baiting going on in this thread by one person in particular and he isn't a fan of the SEC. It is quite clear. He has started up in the Tebow thread as well. It is 100% baiting and does nothing to create decent conversation.

Nobody is running around making a point of saying how great the SEC is. But there are folks who run around and claim that people are driving it down their throats. I just don't see it. When discussing a bunch of two loss conference champions it is relevant which conference is better whether you like it or not.

The attacks on the SEC are ridiculous and the attack on Kentucky wasn't very well thought out.

It will all be settled on the Field, when LSU faces Ohio St. for the national championship. Just got a feeling that all the "talking heads" cannot be wrong.

BuckeyeRed27
12-02-2007, 08:07 PM
I really don't like the idea of LSU playing for the national title. They have been ranked #1 twice this year and didn't take care of business. Why do they get a third chance?

Danny Serafini
12-02-2007, 08:10 PM
I doubt it will be ASU since they won't bring any fans into town.

Bowls love home teams though. They help drive local interest. The Orange Bowl used to try and get Miami every chance it could. Arizona St. played in 5 of the first 7 Fiesta Bowls, although it's been awhile since an Arizona team has played in it, although that's a function of crappy Arizona football more than anything. Heck, the only reason the Hawaii and Humanitarian Bowls exist is so the local team can play a home game. Without Hawaii and Boise St. those games draw zero interest. A team with a big road following is always good, but a home team is also a popular pick.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 08:11 PM
Did Ohio State take care of business or did WVU and Mizzou simply fail in their quest to TCB?

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 08:11 PM
I really don't like the idea of LSU playing for the national title. They have been ranked #1 twice this year and didn't take care of business. Why do they get a third chance?

Exactly. They had their chance (twice) and couldn't capitilize on it, time to let someone else get a chance.

I'll be a huge Buckeye fan come NC time. I've really come around on OSU and Tressel this year. I used to hate his style of coaching but I've really come to like him after he opened the offense up and made OSU more enjoyable to watch.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 08:12 PM
Bowls love home teams though. They help drive local interest. The Orange Bowl used to try and get Miami every chance it could. Arizona St. played in 5 of the first 7 Fiesta Bowls, although it's been awhile since an Arizona team has played in it, although that's a function of crappy Arizona football more than anything. Heck, the only reason the Hawaii and Humanitarian Bowls exist is so the local team can play a home game. Without Hawaii and Boise St. those games draw zero interest. A team with a big road following is always good, but a home team is also a popular pick.

Fair enough Danny.

Something kind of tells me Miami was locked into the Orange Bowl all those years though.

BuckeyeRed27
12-02-2007, 08:16 PM
Did Ohio State take care of business or did WVU and Mizzou simply fail in their quest to TCB?

Ohio State didn't take care of business once. LSU didn't take care of business twice, both times when they were regarded as the top team and controled their own destiny. I don't think a third chance should be given. I think Oklahoma should be given the chance.

WMR
12-02-2007, 08:22 PM
I would be so much more excited about these next few weeks if we were looking at an 8 game playoff (with the rest of the Bowls still existing)...

wow that would be cool, and you couldn't script a better year where such a playoff is needed.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 08:22 PM
So the fact that they got to number one after falling off that spot is reason someone who wasn't deemed worthy of being number one belongs in the title game?

What if I said that neither OSU or LSU deserved to be there because they both were number one and failed to take care of business?

Chip R
12-02-2007, 08:35 PM
What if I said that neither OSU or LSU deserved to be there because they both were number one and failed to take care of business?


I think that's a fair point. Hey, I'm all for putting the names of the top 8 schools in a hat and picking out two names and having them play it off. Makes about as much sense as the current system and it's probably more fair.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 08:42 PM
I think that's a fair point. Hey, I'm all for putting the names of the top 8 schools in a hat and picking out two names and having them play it off. Makes about as much sense as the current system and it's probably more fair.

This year I would say, just about as fair.

I hate these silly arguments as much as anyone but you have next to no choice when people say the things they do. LSU is being treated like they are Wake Forrest. Are the obvious choice? No. But it seems pretty clear to me that they have the oter teams trumped when it comes to all the traditional arguments. LSU doesn't do as well when the rules start being made up as we go along.

The main thing I don't get is all the critism of LSU being the team with very few actually saying who they think the team that plays OSU should be.

GAC
12-02-2007, 08:42 PM
I think that's a fair point. Hey, I'm all for putting the names of the top 8 schools in a hat and picking out two names and having them play it off.

I say put them in a hat, feed them to a goat, and which ever two names he craps is in the NC game.

Danny Serafini
12-02-2007, 08:45 PM
Fair enough Danny.

Something kind of tells me Miami was locked into the Orange Bowl all those years though.

Miami went a lot as an independent (back when being an independent was desirable). I do believe it's a conference tie-in now, though.

Redsfaithful
12-02-2007, 08:51 PM
I say put them in a hat, feed them to a goat, and which ever two names he craps is in the NC game.

Isn't that what they already do?

GAC
12-02-2007, 08:54 PM
The main thing I don't get is all the critism of LSU being the team with very few actually saying who they think the team that plays OSU should be.

The criticism of LSU, IMHO, comes from the fact that many of the sports media outlets have shown a strong bias towards them, while shoving them down everyone's throats for the last few months. I got tired of hearing Mark May on ESPN continually toot their horn while continually taking sideways swipes at OSU.

LSU is a good team, the SEC is a solid conference, I have no problem at all with LSU being in the NC game; but I think I brought up a valid question earlier on this thread......



While I would have no problem at all seeing LSU in the title game, I don't know if they should jump over VT.

#6VT beats #11 BC by two TDs, while #7LSU struggled against #14 Tennessee, and thanks to Vols QB Ainge.

So if VT is #6 and LSU is #7 in the BCS going into Saturday, and VT beats a higher ranked opponent then LSU (6 beats 11, 7 beats 14), then someone explain why they shouldn't maintain their edge/higher ranking over LSU, or how LSU should now jump over VT? Based on what?

I just don't see how a system that has VT ranked higher then LSU, can all of a sudden jump LSU from 7th to 2nd when the team ranked higher then you to begin with beats a higher ranked opponent?

Must be that darn human factor. ;)

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 09:07 PM
Notre Dame has a longer winning streak than LSU.

SandyD
12-02-2007, 09:13 PM
Notre Dame has a longer winning streak than LSU.


And OSU, for that matter.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by GAC
While I would have no problem at all seeing LSU in the title game, I don't know if they should jump over VT.

#6VT beats #11 BC by two TDs, while #7LSU struggled against #14 Tennessee, and thanks to Vols QB Ainge.

So if VT is #6 and LSU is #7 in the BCS going into Saturday, and VT beats a higher ranked opponent then LSU (6 beats 11, 7 beats 14), then someone explain why they shouldn't maintain their edge/higher ranking over LSU, or how LSU should now jump over VT? Based on what?

GAC, I think this is easily explainable. Nobody cares to debate who is number 6 or who is number 7. If VaTech was ahead of LSU last week it was mainly because LSU lost the week before. But when it comes down to who is number 2 it has to be looked at closer and like I said, in all the traditional things that get looked at, LSU has VaTech trumped. They also have that 44-7 win in their back pocket over the other team in question.

I see what you are saying, totally. Based on what happend since the last poll that had VaTech ahead of LSU, LSU does not deserve to jump the Hokies. But the resume as a whole is better and I don't think the voters have done the wrong thing.

Based on the system, OSU makes sense and out of the other teams LSU makes more sense than anyone. Still not official though.

Screwball
12-02-2007, 09:17 PM
Based on the system, OSU makes sense and out of the other teams LSU makes more sense than anyone. Still not official though.

Not official, but cbssportsline.com is reporting it's OSU-LSU:



BREAKING NEWS
Ohio State, LSU headed for title showdown
The Buckeyes and Tigers are 1-2 in the latest coaches poll and near locks to meet for the BCS championship in New Orleans. 'This virtually nails it,' BCS guru Jerry Palm says.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 09:17 PM
ASU officially gets screwed. Please Pac-10, pull out of the BCS.

Illinois is 9-3. IMO they don't deserve a BCS bowl.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 09:17 PM
:cry:

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 09:20 PM
Disappointing. I was hoping USC would get to crush one of those SUC teams.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 09:20 PM
You want to talk about being screwed OBM, what about Mizzou?

How does Kansas go to the Orange Bowl while Mizzou gets no BCS game?

Much bigger slight than that of ASU. MUCH bigger.

George Foster
12-02-2007, 09:21 PM
With OU and VA TECH already in bowls...It has to be Georgia in the Suger, and LSU and OU in the National Championship.

MizzU got screwed....they beat Kansas and had the 26th hardest schedule, Kansas had the 109th....Kansas in the Orange Bowl!:thumbdown

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 09:21 PM
Go Buckeyes!!!

LSwho=least deserving team to ever play in NC!

George Foster
12-02-2007, 09:22 PM
It's official.....LSU vs Ohio St.

Big Ten Vs. SEC!!!

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Two chances at #1, two strikeouts. How sad.

Les Miles, what an awful coach.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 09:24 PM
*

George Foster
12-02-2007, 09:25 PM
I guess the voters have more "pull" than the computer!!

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 09:26 PM
:eek: Lou Holtz just picked Ohio State.

Mark May is looking at him like he is crazy.

George Foster
12-02-2007, 09:29 PM
I think we are all happy it's not Georgia or Kansas.

I think it was a toss up between OU and LSU and it came down to OU losing to 2 unranked teams and LSU losing 2 games in 3 OT's

Don't under estimate the "power" of the talking heads minutes after the West Virgina loss. perception is reality.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2007, 09:29 PM
LSwho gave up 24+ points in six of their last eight games. Yeah, what a great defense.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

SandyD
12-02-2007, 09:29 PM
On a lighter note, any buckeyes making the trip? Let me know if you have questions about the city.

George Foster
12-02-2007, 09:31 PM
I think the team with the biggest complaint is MizzU. 24 hours ago they were ranked #1....now not even in the BCS bowls.

No way Kansas should be in the Orange Bowl over them.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 09:32 PM
I think the team with the biggest complaint is MizzU. 24 hours ago they were ranked #1....now not even in the BCS bowls.

No way Kansas should be in the Orange Bowl over them.

I totally agree. All it takes is an objective person to see that.

George Foster
12-02-2007, 09:36 PM
I totally agree. All it takes is an objective person to see that.

If we all could be objective it really came down to just 2 teams.

LSU and OU. If I had to pick the team playing the best as of Sat. then I pick OU. If I look at the entire season, strength of schedule, number of top 20 wins, I gave the edge to LSU.

If OU had made it, I could not have complained.

KronoRed
12-02-2007, 09:36 PM
You guys are really going to have to work to get this years BCS argument to the level of last years
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52375

Post it up people! ;)

kbrake
12-02-2007, 10:12 PM
On a lighter note, any buckeyes making the trip? Let me know if you have questions about the city.

Already have a hotel booked. Cant wait, just hoping I can get a ticket. Never been to New Orleans really looking forward to it.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 10:14 PM
If we all could be objective it really came down to just 2 teams.

LSU and OU. If I had to pick the team playing the best as of Sat. then I pick OU. If I look at the entire season, strength of schedule, number of top 20 wins, I gave the edge to LSU.

If OU had made it, I could not have complained.

Believe it or not, me either. Same with USC or VaTech. Those four teams all won their league by winning their game this weekend and all four are close enough that I think any and all were deserving, for what that term is worth.

I think if you are the best team in your league all season and end up winning the league you are quite worthy of being the national champion. Problem is, there are often more than two teams who fit this criteria.

In fact have we ever had six conference champs as good as Ohio State, West Virginia, VaTech, LSU, USC and Oklahoma? A play-off with these teams along with Georgia and Mizzou would sure be a lot of fun. Even funner if 8 others could be included IMO.

GAC
12-02-2007, 10:24 PM
GAC, I think this is easily explainable. Nobody cares to debate who is number 6 or who is number 7. If VaTech was ahead of LSU last week it was mainly because LSU lost the week before. But when it comes down to who is number 2 it has to be looked at closer and like I said, in all the traditional things that get looked at, LSU has VaTech trumped.

That's all true..... LSU's loss dropped them below VT. So if the following week VT beats an opponent ranked higher then LSU's opponent, then in accordance with all the BCS variables that are utilized (which also placed VT above LSU to begin with), what is the BCS's justification for now jumping LSU well above VT?

I don't see how they can say it was because LSU beat VT earlier in the season. That loss has already been figured into the system when it comes to rankings,and yet they still ranked VT, as well as Georgia and Kansas above them.

The whole thing doesn't make sense at all, other then the fact, IMHO, that there is that other "invisble" variable called politics being factored in that says a OSU-LSU NC game will be a better ratings/money draw then any of the other matchups.

LSU is one solid ballclub. It should be one heck of a game IMO. But I think the other teams ranked ahead of LSU got screwed IMHO.

But oh well.

GAC
12-02-2007, 10:28 PM
It's official.....LSU vs Ohio St.

Big Ten Vs. SEC!!!

Lets hope the Big Ten (OSU) does better than they did last year. I'm keeping my mouth shut and making no predictions/bets on this game! :lol:

IMO we have a shot vs LSU. If it were USC I'd be worried terribly about being embarassed.

MaineRed
12-02-2007, 10:45 PM
GAC, I think those teams that were ahead of LSU were screwed with. Not sure they got screwed.

Both Kansas and Georgia were ahead of LSU but then LSU won the SEC. I don't think it is unfair for voters to reassess and say, OK, LSU has a conference title, Georgia and Kansas do not. That leaves VaTech (assuming you are going just drop Mizzou and WVU off the face of the earth which seems to be the norm when a team loses) and when you compare them to LSU it is impossible to put them ahead of the Tigers IMO when the selection is going to decide who plays for the national title.

jmcclain19
12-02-2007, 10:48 PM
Awesome - another chance to watch OSU get an SEC beat down in the National Championship game. Just exactly what I wanted to watch.

WMR
12-02-2007, 10:49 PM
Awesome - another chance to watch OSU get an SEC beat down in the National Championship game. Just exactly what I wanted to watch.

LMAO JOSH

:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:

traderumor
12-02-2007, 11:03 PM
I am really glad it is LSU. I think that is probably the team that scares me the least. What is amazing is that they were a dipstick Ainge pass away from losing yesterday. But, the rankings are a joke. Oklahoma was 9, now they are NC game material. I think a straw poll at College Gameday would yield fairer results.

traderumor
12-02-2007, 11:04 PM
Awesome - another chance to watch OSU get an SEC beat down in the National Championship game. Just exactly what I wanted to watch.LSU is not that good, and the SEC failures are spread out over many years. Tressel is 0-1, folks make way too much of the overall record.

jmcclain19
12-02-2007, 11:26 PM
LSU is not that good, and the SEC failures are spread out over many years. Tressel is 0-1, folks make way too much of the overall record.

Did OSU Fans watch the game last year? I'm just picking at you TR because you responded to my post - but this is to the legions of OSU homers on the board.

OSU had the Heisman trophy winner on their team along with 7 other NFL draft picks and they took an epic beat down. It was embarrassing to watch. I'm talking BCS smackdown of a I-AA opponent (or maybe that's not the right analogy to use for Big Ten fans). Florida of 2006 & LSU of 2007 look like mirrors of each other, except this time instead of playing on a neutral field - they are playing 80 miles from their opponents home field. I fully expect the same result.

guttle11
12-02-2007, 11:34 PM
Did OSU Fans watch the game last year? I'm just picking at you TR because you responded to my post - but this is to the legions of OSU homers on the board.

OSU had the Heisman trophy winner on their team along with 7 other NFL draft picks and they took an epic beat down. It was embarrassing to watch. I'm talking BCS smackdown of a I-AA opponent (or maybe that's not the right analogy to use for Big Ten fans). Florida of 2006 & LSU of 2007 look like mirrors of each other, except this time instead of playing on a neutral field - they are playing 80 miles from their opponents home field. I fully expect the same result.

Exactly what does that have to do with this year, against a completely different team that plays a different style of football?

George Foster
12-02-2007, 11:44 PM
Awesome - another chance to watch OSU get an SEC beat down in the National Championship game. Just exactly what I wanted to watch.

Ohio State will not accept another "slap down" this year. Tressel will have his team ready to play. He will remind them of all the hype last year and how they were favored to beat Florida and did not. I think it will be a great game. If I were a OSU fan I would be just as scared of "healthy" LSU than OU or USC. LSU has played a lot of close games and knows how to respond.

If I were a LSU fan, I'd be afraid of the OSU front line dominating the time of possession and Tressel wanting to redeem himself and the Buckeye nation. Again, I think it will be a great game.

Unassisted
12-03-2007, 12:04 AM
LSU is not that good, and the SEC failures are spread out over many years. Tressel is 0-1, folks make way too much of the overall record.
Tressel is 1-0 against Les Miles in bowl games (http://www.centralohio.com/ohiostate/stories/20041230/football/1806582.html). :)

Danny Serafini
12-03-2007, 12:57 AM
Florida of 2006 & LSU of 2007 look like mirrors of each other

Is this your mirror?

http://www.georgeglazer.com/decarts/objects/funhousegeorge.JPG

Caveat Emperor
12-03-2007, 01:02 AM
Florida of 2006 & LSU of 2007 look like mirrors of each other, except this time instead of playing on a neutral field - they are playing 80 miles from their opponents home field. I fully expect the same result.

Offensively, the two schools are miles apart.

LSU runs a much more traditional offense than Florida's "anything goes" spread attack. Also, Matt Flynn isn't nearly as dynamic a playmaker as Chris Leak was last season (or Tebow was this season, for that matter).

LoganBuck
12-03-2007, 01:51 AM
If we didn't play post season bowl games like we sometimes used to Ohio State just won its second consecutive national championship.

traderumor
12-03-2007, 07:14 AM
Did OSU Fans watch the game last year? I'm just picking at you TR because you responded to my post - but this is to the legions of OSU homers on the board.

OSU had the Heisman trophy winner on their team along with 7 other NFL draft picks and they took an epic beat down. It was embarrassing to watch. I'm talking BCS smackdown of a I-AA opponent (or maybe that's not the right analogy to use for Big Ten fans). Florida of 2006 & LSU of 2007 look like mirrors of each other, except this time instead of playing on a neutral field - they are playing 80 miles from their opponents home field. I fully expect the same result.I have watched LSU play quite a bit this year, probably more than any other college team. They have been in trouble in games to the extent they could have 4-5 losses, and it isn't because the SEC is so strong. I only have to look so far as the near loss to Alabama, who lost the following week to another Louisiana team with a city in its name. Or the near miss just this Saturday, where UT outplayed them and Ainge gave the game away.

Of course, we are talking about one game and randomness could indeed net a similar result to last year, but I think it is little more than Mark May level analysis to base your prediction on what you have stated so far. But then, I'm just an OSU homer :rolleyes:

cumberlandreds
12-03-2007, 09:34 AM
ASU officially gets screwed. Please Pac-10, pull out of the BCS.

Illinois is 9-3. IMO they don't deserve a BCS bowl.

That's the one I don't understand besides the Kansas pick. You can probably chalk it up to the dumb BCS rule of not having more than two teams from a conference. Florida,Missouri and maybe even Boston College would have been much better picks instead of Illinois or Kansas.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 09:58 AM
I only have to look so far as the near loss to Alabama, who lost the following week to another Louisiana team with a city in its name. Or the near miss just this Saturday, where UT outplayed them and Ainge gave the game away.

Alabama went to Mississippi State the week after playing LSU. They lost a heartbreaker to LSU, lost a heartbreaker to Mississippi State and then had to play UL Monroe while looking ahead to Auburn the following week.

And just what would the reaction here be if Tressel left OSU and then came back to coach Michigan State and they gave Ohio State a game? That would be evidence that OSU isn't "that good"? Seems to me such a game would be met with lots of comments about how everyone knew Tressel, knowing the Buckeyes better than anyone would be able to keep his team in the game. But with Saban and Bama they are supposed to lay down so we can have some concrete proof LSU doesn't stink.

But I really don't see what it has to do with anything. Ohio State beat Michigan State by the same margin LSU beat Alabama and Michigan State lost to Northwestern (a team not too far in front of Monroe in the BCS rankings). Are people supposed to say the Buckeyes aren't that good because of this? What about losing to a team that lost to awful Iowa? We can make these silly arguments about every team in the country. Show me a team including Ohio State who didn't lose to an inferior team and play some tough games that they "could" have lost? There are none. But the Ohio State is the only one, game, continues.

Heath
12-03-2007, 10:23 AM
.....and as we continue on page 25.....I remind you all to play nice in the BCS Sandbox.

OUReds
12-03-2007, 11:00 AM
But I really don't see what it has to do with anything. Ohio State beat Michigan State by the same margin LSU beat Alabama and Michigan State lost to Northwestern (a team not too far in front of Monroe in the BCS rankings). Are people supposed to say the Buckeyes aren't that good because of this? What about losing to a team that lost to awful Iowa? We can make these silly arguments about every team in the country. Show me a team including Ohio State who didn't lose to an inferior team and play some tough games that they "could" have lost? There are none. But the Ohio State is the only one, game, continues.

You are right about one thing, your hypothetical situation involving Ohio State and coach Tressel doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Between now and the National Championship game many, many people will use the exact same arguments that you posted to convince people that Ohio State will get rolled in the NC game. Frankly they will have a good point. The Buckeyes (like everyone) had some games where they struggled angainst inferior opponents.

Why can't Ohio state fans point out the same flaws in LSU's schedule? It is just as valid a point when used to critique LSU as it is when critiquing OSU.

The reason OSU fans are pointing out that LSU may not be an unstoppable juggernaut of football manliness is not that many view LSU as an unworthy contender, but that OSU is getting very little respect nationally.

Frankly, the human voters moved heaven and earth to put LSU in the championship game. I understand (and mostly agree) with their logic, but there can be no doubt that most people think LSU should be in the championship game. In contrast, the talking heads (and more then a few extremely unscientific polls floating around) think OSU are there by default, having "backed into" the game both by playing a cupcake schedule and having the gall to not play the past two weeks. The most ringing endorsement of OSU I have heard the past two days (outside of Ohio of course) is something along the lines of "well, you can't NOT put them in giving the system we're saddled with currently".

So again, forgive us OSU "homers" for having the temerity to suggest that the Buckeyes might not just show up for another butt-kicking, and pointing out why that might be the case.

traderumor
12-03-2007, 01:05 PM
Alabama went to Mississippi State the week after playing LSU. They lost a heartbreaker to LSU, lost a heartbreaker to Mississippi State and then had to play UL Monroe while looking ahead to Auburn the following week.

And just what would the reaction here be if Tressel left OSU and then came back to coach Michigan State and they gave Ohio State a game? That would be evidence that OSU isn't "that good"? Seems to me such a game would be met with lots of comments about how everyone knew Tressel, knowing the Buckeyes better than anyone would be able to keep his team in the game. But with Saban and Bama they are supposed to lay down so we can have some concrete proof LSU doesn't stink.

But I really don't see what it has to do with anything. Ohio State beat Michigan State by the same margin LSU beat Alabama and Michigan State lost to Northwestern (a team not too far in front of Monroe in the BCS rankings). Are people supposed to say the Buckeyes aren't that good because of this? What about losing to a team that lost to awful Iowa? We can make these silly arguments about every team in the country. Show me a team including Ohio State who didn't lose to an inferior team and play some tough games that they "could" have lost? There are none. But the Ohio State is the only one, game, continues.

Having watched both the OSU-MSU game and LSU-Bama game, the difference is that OSU totally dominated MSU but for dropping two balls in a span of two plays, whereas 'Bama outplayed LSU. Ohio State rolled on the road versus ranked opponents and stumbled in a game that has proven a tough matchup two years running. If anyone had any objectivity in these discussions, Ohio State has been more dominant of opponents on a week to week basis, whereas LSU has been more lucky than good. The neat thing is, I don't have to rely on mythical statements like "SEC superiority" and "strength of schedule" and other such garbage. I get to watch a game between two teams on the field.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 01:15 PM
The neat thing is, I don't have to rely on mythical statements like "SEC superiority" and "strength of schedule" and other such garbage. I get to watch a game between two teams on the field.

Neither of these statements are mythical. The SEC is the best conference in America using the same computer formula that is used as part of the BCS. Nothing mythical about it. And using the same formula the Big Ten is number 6.

And there is nothing mythical about LSU having a better SOS than Ohio State. It is as true as it gets.

It is easy to dismiss which conference is better and SOS when you lose both those arguments. But you watch the "games". Must be fun to have the ability to be 100 places at once every Saturday.

bucksfan2
12-03-2007, 01:16 PM
Alabama went to Mississippi State the week after playing LSU. They lost a heartbreaker to LSU, lost a heartbreaker to Mississippi State and then had to play UL Monroe while looking ahead to Auburn the following week.

And just what would the reaction here be if Tressel left OSU and then came back to coach Michigan State and they gave Ohio State a game? That would be evidence that OSU isn't "that good"? Seems to me such a game would be met with lots of comments about how everyone knew Tressel, knowing the Buckeyes better than anyone would be able to keep his team in the game. But with Saban and Bama they are supposed to lay down so we can have some concrete proof LSU doesn't stink.

But I really don't see what it has to do with anything. Ohio State beat Michigan State by the same margin LSU beat Alabama and Michigan State lost to Northwestern (a team not too far in front of Monroe in the BCS rankings). Are people supposed to say the Buckeyes aren't that good because of this? What about losing to a team that lost to awful Iowa? We can make these silly arguments about every team in the country. Show me a team including Ohio State who didn't lose to an inferior team and play some tough games that they "could" have lost? There are none. But the Ohio State is the only one, game, continues.

Using this logic Appy St. should beat OSU because Appy St. beat UM who beat Illinois who beat OSU.

Maine are you a SEC fan? Just curious.

There is going to be a whole month ahead of us in which speculation will run wild. Mark May will declare LSU the winner because they are gods gift to football while Lou Holtz will give numerous pep talks to everyone. During this entire build up no game will have been played. Players on both teams will try and get healthy while staying in football shape. Here are some things that I see as of right now.

-Will Glen Dorsey be healthy? I don't know if his leg injury will fully heal in the month off.
-How will Pelini's departure hurt LSU? This will have an effect on the team.
-Whose fron 7 will play better? I think the edge right now goes to OSU. Dorsey is not fully healthy and Gholston just came off a game in which he dominated a top tackle. OSU's O Line has been strong this whole season and will have something to prove against a team from the superior conference.
-The coaching advantage goes to Tressel. Miles has done nothing to impress me as a coach.

FIRELEFT
12-03-2007, 01:21 PM
-Will Glen Dorsey be healthy? I don't know if his leg injury will fully heal in the month off.

That is a big key for me.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 01:31 PM
Using this logic Appy St. should beat OSU because Appy St. beat UM who beat Illinois who beat OSU.

Maine are you a SEC fan? Just curious.

Where did I use "this logic"? Answer, nowhere. You are the one using that logic, not me. I never said anything anyone beating OSU other than the team that beat them. The point of my post was to say what you are saying to me, expect I was saying it an Ohio State fan who used "this logic" to knock LSU. He is the one who wants to use "this logic". I was with you, wondering about "this logic" myself. But look at who you questioned, the guy who used the Ohio State example, not the guy who started it all using the same kind of "logic" but instead did so with LSU.

I love talking college football but the key word is objectively. If there is a logic you don't like and it gets brought up by an OSU fan, why not call him on it? Instead I make a post saying I don't agree with the logic and I have to defend myself for it against someone who also doesn't agree with it.

And no I am not an "SEC fan". I like watching USC and Oregon as much as I like watching LSU and Georgia. But I am not blind. The best football is played in the SEC where there are more good teams than anywhere else. I can't watch the NFL and say the NFC is better, I can't watch MLB and say the NL is better and I can't watch the NBA over the years and claim the East has been better. I see nothing wrong with being objective when it comes to these things. But say the SEC is number one in football and folks go crazy over it and start looking for ways to rip them. I enjoy defending the SEC because they are worthy of it and it isn't hard to do. Just about all the evidence points to it being true.

M2
12-03-2007, 01:36 PM
Here's an interesting argument for dumping the BCS (http://www.slate.com/id/2178717/fr/flyout).

Personally, the fact that Hawaii isn't in the championship game, that David isn't tilting at Goliath, strikes me as ridiculous. We were told last year that Boise St. couldn't really beat a major program and then it went out and took down Oklahoma in an absolute classic of a game. While I'm sure Ohio St. and Florida fans still cared about the outcome of the supposed national championship, it was an anti-climactic piece of dreck.

The same will happen this year if Hawaii beats Georgia. In that case they ought to call Ohio St.-LSU the Oligarch Bowl.

traderumor
12-03-2007, 01:45 PM
Neither of these statements are mythical. The SEC is the best conference in America using the same computer formula that is used as part of the BCS. Nothing mythical about it. And using the same formula the Big Ten is number 6.

And there is nothing mythical about LSU having a better SOS than Ohio State. It is as true as it gets.

It is easy to dismiss which conference is better and SOS when you lose both those arguments. But you watch the "games". Must be fun to have the ability to be 100 places at once every Saturday.I'm the multi-tasker in the commercial, there are three little me's that allow me to get more done than one person should. ;)

But, I have indeed watched LSU play quite a bit this year and I watch Ohio State when they're on. I have also enjoyed watching the SEC on CBS, but it didn't even require having cable to do so, much less being in 100 places at once.

College football comparisons are really hard to make and there are so many factors in play, arguments about this conference or that conference, or strength of schedule of teams in major conferences really are just not great indicators of the actual ability of the team, so that is why I give little weight to them, not because they are against me. That is why "watching the games" is so important if one wishes to intelligently commentate on whether this team or that team is really any good with the monster that is college football. It can still be GIGO if I do "watch the games" and I claim no special expertise other than having "watched the games" analytically for over 30 years and have picked up a few things along the way. Which is probably worth more than "well, this formula says the SEC is...and the Big 10 is..." And if I did not have the opportunity to watch LSU as much as I have, I probably would have very little to say in these discussions.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 02:01 PM
I think most people here watch college football and I am hardly dismissing what you say you see. I think watching the games is most important. The conference and the SOS are one in the same IMO, for the most part. The comments "they are in the best conference" are simple ways of saying they had a tougher road than most. The computer rankings of such things (conferences and SOS) get brought into in to back these statements up. Otherwise all you would get are responses, "well that is just your opinion".

Trust me, I understand why folks think LSU "isn't that great" as they put it and I trust that many have actually watched them play. But the comments that call LSU average and just tool on the SEC for no apparent reason I don't get. And to be honest I didn't get the comment tha dragged UL Monroe into it. We could have the App State, UL Monroe argument all day but it nothing to do with the top of the BCS rankings or which conference is best because every conference suffers these losses and the teams that suffer them often give the big boys a game.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 02:07 PM
As winner of a conference that trails significantly behind the Moutain West and sits in 8h I think Hawaii is about where they belong. They are fortunate to get a BCS berth. According to Sagarin, the Mountain West is closer to the Big Ten than the WAC is to the Mountain West. I see very little evidence that they are the best team in the country. If you are going to rank teams based on record, how do you decide to plays them, OSU or Kansas?

traderumor
12-03-2007, 02:12 PM
I think most people here watch college football and I am hardly dismissing what you say you see. I think watching the games is most important. The conference and the SOS are one in the same IMO, for the most part. The comments "they are in the best conference" are simple ways of saying they had a tougher road than most. The computer rankings of such things (conferences and SOS) get brought into in to back these statements up. Otherwise all you would get are responses, "well that is just your opinion".

Trust me, I understand why folks think LSU "isn't that great" as they put it and I trust that many have actually watched them play. But the comments that call LSU average and just tool on the SEC for no apparent reason I don't get. And to be honest I didn't get the comment tha dragged UL Monroe into it. We could have the App State, UL Monroe argument all day but it nothing to do with the top of the BCS rankings or which conference is best because every conference suffers these losses and the teams that suffer them often give the big boys a game.UL Monroe comes into the argument because that was a game LSU was handed by Alabama, who clearly were an average team, at best. OTH, Ohio State dominated a UM team on their own field like a national championship contender should, esp. one that was beat by an Appalachin State. But then, that was also the first game of the year, while Alabama lost theirs to a nobody late.

BTW, there seem to be a lot of things that if you don't hold a position, you "just don't get" how anyone could think such a thing. It is possible that you don't have it all figgered out, you know.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 02:51 PM
UL Monroe comes into the argument because that was a game LSU was handed by Alabama, who clearly were an average team, at best. OTH, Ohio State dominated a UM team on their own field like a national championship contender should, esp. one that was beat by an Appalachin State. But then, that was also the first game of the year, while Alabama lost theirs to a nobody late.

BTW, there seem to be a lot of things that if you don't hold a position, you "just don't get" how anyone could think such a thing. It is possible that you don't have it all figgered out, you know.

Saying the SEC sucks and that LSU is average are things I don't get. I don't think you get them either. You just don't see any reason to debate it because you only want to defend the Big Ten. You continue to make that obvious by dismissing anything negative said about the league. Michigan lost the first game of the year? So what? Why is this relevant? It wouldn't be if Alabama had lost their first game.

Like I said, Alabama is coached by Nick Saban. It can be expected that they would give LSU a better game than their talent might indicate.

I guess you can say OSU handled Michigan but they won by 11 while Alabama lost to LSU by 7. Bottom line, OSU won, LSU won and those two teams play each other. Which team had one of their opponents lose to the worst team and comparing how they each did against that team with the bad loss isn't really relevant to anything.

bucksfan2
12-03-2007, 02:54 PM
Where did I use "this logic"? Answer, nowhere. You are the one using that logic, not me. I never said anything anyone beating OSU other than the team that beat them. The point of my post was to say what you are saying to me, expect I was saying it an Ohio State fan who used "this logic" to knock LSU. He is the one who wants to use "this logic". I was with you, wondering about "this logic" myself. But look at who you questioned, the guy who used the Ohio State example, not the guy who started it all using the same kind of "logic" but instead did so with LSU.

I love talking college football but the key word is objectively. If there is a logic you don't like and it gets brought up by an OSU fan, why not call him on it? Instead I make a post saying I don't agree with the logic and I have to defend myself for it against someone who also doesn't agree with it.

And no I am not an "SEC fan". I like watching USC and Oregon as much as I like watching LSU and Georgia. But I am not blind. The best football is played in the SEC where there are more good teams than anywhere else. I can't watch the NFL and say the NFC is better, I can't watch MLB and say the NL is better and I can't watch the NBA over the years and claim the East has been better. I see nothing wrong with being objective when it comes to these things. But say the SEC is number one in football and folks go crazy over it and start looking for ways to rip them. I enjoy defending the SEC because they are worthy of it and it isn't hard to do. Just about all the evidence points to it being true.

Sorry I was just to say that I do not take any stock when you begin to compare two teams by who they beat and who the teams they beat, beat or lost to. When you do this you begin to take away from the actual game played on the field on the given Saturday (Tues, Wed, Thurs, Fri with the way college football is going right now).

I have watched LSU play a handfull of times this year and each time I saw them I came out of the game unimpressed. Every team has their slip up and it is damn hard to run through a season without a loss. LSU just did nothing spectacular in the games I saw them play. LSU was a poorly coached football team if you ask me. They got by a lot of games based upon talent alone. I was amazed while watching LSU when a commentator said when they use this formation they always throw the ball to the fullback. Each and every time they used that formation they did throw the ball to the fullback. One commentator even went to the point during the Arkansas game to say that the little amound of film he watched to prepare himself for the games he notices this. In their last two games their "great" defense got gashed by a RB playing QB and looked sluggish against a pretty average UT team.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 02:59 PM
Can someone post a link or some documentation of these repeated references to the "great LSU defense"?

You guys want to believe I am some LSU apologist but I'm not even saying that nor do I see anyone saying it. I don't see the national media saying it either.

Where is it coming from? Just because you hear something once or twice doesn't mean everyone is saying it. And LSU is third nationally in yards against a tougher schedule than the teams in front of them so they are doing something right. But great? I just don't see this being some USA wide perception that is being claimed and it certainly is not the case of anyone here far as I can tell.

traderumor
12-03-2007, 03:09 PM
Saying the SEC sucks and that LSU is average are things I don't get. I don't think you get them either. You just don't see any reason to debate it because you only want to defend the Big Ten. You continue to make that obvious by dismissing anything negative said about the league. Michigan lost the first game of the year? So what? Why is this relevant? It wouldn't be if Alabama had lost their first game.

Like I said, Alabama is coached by Nick Saban. It can be expected that they would give LSU a better game than their talent might indicate.

I guess you can say OSU handled Michigan but they won by 11 while Alabama lost to LSU by 7. Bottom line, OSU won, LSU won and those two teams play each other. Which team had one of their opponents lose to the worst team and comparing how they each did against that team with the bad loss isn't really relevant to anything.

Teams often do something known as improvement. A few teams regress due to injury or other in-season events, but most teams improve. So, the fact that UM lost to a team they shouldn't in the first game could be seen as different than 'Bama doing the same later in the season, when they were just a few weeks removed from having LSU beat. Honestly, explaining something like this should be a given for someone claiming the level of knowledge about both college and pro football that you do.

As for "OSU beat UM by 11," anyone who watched that game agrees that the score could have been pretty much about whatever OSU wanted it to be. Tressel decided attempting to blow out the Wolverines was less important than not taking any chances under the weather conditions. Really, your arguments are essentially the same that pollsters are forced to use to vote week in and week out. Look at the margin of victory and make conclusions.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 03:17 PM
Since I am so smart on such matters I can join you in assuming that "teams do improve".

I am going to go ahead and assume that teams like Appalaichan State improve as well as the season goes along which tells me their improvement would have crossed out Michigan's improvement and they still would have beat the Wolverines, even if the game was in late October. To me that is the only fair way to look at it. But it makes the Big Ten look bad in this debate so you'll come up with some excuse.

You can't really say App State regressed. They went 11-2 and are still alive in the former D-1AA play-offs.

traderumor
12-03-2007, 04:13 PM
Since I am so smart on such matters I can join you in assuming that "teams do improve".

I am going to go ahead and assume that teams like Appalaichan State improve as well as the season goes along which tells me their improvement would have crossed out Michigan's improvement and they still would have beat the Wolverines, even if the game was in late October. To me that is the only fair way to look at it. But it makes the Big Ten look bad in this debate so you'll come up with some excuse.

You can't really say App State regressed. They went 11-2 and are still alive in the former D-1AA play-offs.This really isn't a debate, I'm spending all my time explaining basic concepts to you. And it is time to move on for me.

OSU-LSU ought to be a fun game. I was a student at tOSU last time they played, Tommy Hodson was the QB. I can still see the big LSU RV on a road around town the day before the game. I know this matchup should be a scalper's dream, with LSU's geographical proximity and OSU's well-known following, and OSU crazies will pay big bucks to get in this game.

Really, all this ought to be settled in Strat-O-Matic in a matchup of OSU vs. Appalachin St and LSU vs. UL Monroe;)

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 04:29 PM
This really isn't a debate, I'm spending all my time explaining basic concepts to you. And it is time to move on for me.

Well at least that means you won't end your post with a snide remark about all this if you are ready to move on.

Kind of what I figured out of you traderumor. I merely suggest that the team that beat Michigan on opening day could go and improve as well and you turn it into me not understandig basic concepts. It is what you do whenever someone turns up the heat on the Big Ten.

You dismiss a loss by Michigan because it was week one of the season. And I have seen others do the same thing with the LSU in over VaTech. Are you going to dismiss any win by OSU over USC in the future because it was a glorified exibition the first week of September?

The explanation that some loss by Alabama in October is worse than the Big Ten runner-up losing to a 1-AA school seems odd. And you explain that by saying teams can improve as the season goes on? Just not the teams who pulled those upstes I guess.


Really, all this ought to be settled in Strat-O-Matic in a matchup of OSU vs. Appalachin St and LSU vs. UL Monroe

Odd, for a guy who was moving on ...............

Sea Ray
12-03-2007, 04:37 PM
Having watched both the OSU-MSU game and LSU-Bama game, the difference is that OSU totally dominated MSU but for dropping two balls in a span of two plays, whereas 'Bama outplayed LSU. Ohio State rolled on the road versus ranked opponents and stumbled in a game that has proven a tough matchup two years running. If anyone had any objectivity in these discussions, Ohio State has been more dominant of opponents on a week to week basis, whereas LSU has been more lucky than good. The neat thing is, I don't have to rely on mythical statements like "SEC superiority" and "strength of schedule" and other such garbage. I get to watch a game between two teams on the field.

There is some truth to what you say which is why it'll be all the more damning if OSU lays another egg in this year's Championship game. OSU dominated its opponents unlike any other team last year yet when put on a field with a speedy SEC team they were exposed. That did not reflect well on the Big Ten.

If OSU wants to change this year's outcome they ought to play the game like ARK did. Power football. If they play the spread and run 5 wides they'll play right into LSU's strengths.

Sea Ray
12-03-2007, 04:43 PM
Can someone post a link or some documentation of these repeated references to the "great LSU defense"?


OK.

This came out of a paper that covered the Tenn-LSU contest:

"Tennessee found it hard to score against an LSU defense that entered Saturday ranked first in the SEC and third in the nation in total defense."

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071202/SPORTS0601/712020421/1035

1st in the SEC and third in the entire nation sounds awfully good to me.

smith288
12-03-2007, 04:53 PM
OK.

This came out of a paper that covered the Tenn-LSU contest:

"Tennessee found it hard to score against an LSU defense that entered Saturday ranked first in the SEC and third in the nation in total defense."

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071202/SPORTS0601/712020421/1035

1st in the SEC and third in the entire nation sounds awfully good to me.
OSU's is 1st in the nationa nd got pwned by Illinois. That doesnt necessarily mean much and recent LSU games I have watched doesnt tell me a whole lot about that "vaunted" lsu D.

GAC
12-03-2007, 04:54 PM
Between now and the National Championship game many, many people will use the exact same arguments that you posted to convince people that Ohio State will get rolled in the NC game. Frankly they will have a good point. The Buckeyes (like everyone) had some games where they struggled angainst inferior opponents.

Why can't Ohio state fans point out the same flaws in LSU's schedule? It is just as valid a point when used to critique LSU as it is when critiquing OSU.

The reason OSU fans are pointing out that LSU may not be an unstoppable juggernaut of football manliness is not that many view LSU as an unworthy contender, but that OSU is getting very little respect nationally.

Bingo! We have a winner!

As an avid OSU fan it still doesn't mean I throw objectivity out the window. Throughout the course of this season, and on this forum, I was critical (or even skeptical) of OSU due to the number of weak opponents on this year's schedule. And I'm referring to Youngstown State, Akron, and then Kent State? Give me a break! One maybe, but not three!

I don't think the Big Ten is as weak as some contend. Funny how some of the other conferences "beat up on each other" due to parity, but not the Big Ten.

How can one really properly evaluate how good/bad a team like OSU really is when you're not seeing them really being tested?

I never criticized some for the valid concerns they had about OSU when I also had them. What pee'd me off - and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the so-called experts (especially at places like ESPN) who hitched their wagon to the OSU juggernaut last year and then got burned (embarrassed) in the NC game - have been wanting to take out a little "retribution" on OSU (and the Big Ten) for that embarrassing display, and thus, they've taken a lot of swipes at OSU and the conference this year.

I can handle valid criticism; but it was the overt lack of respect (as you mentioned) while some (like Mark May) slobbered all over the SEC and teams like LSU.


Frankly, the human voters moved heaven and earth to put LSU in the championship game.

They promised their firstborn to Satan to get it done. Just kidding. While it may appear not to be fair to a couple of the teams ranked higher then LSU going into last weekend, an OSU-LSU NC game will be a bigger ratings hit/draw and money maker. And that is what it's all about.


So again, forgive us OSU "homers" for having the temerity to suggest that the Buckeyes might not just show up for another butt-kicking, and pointing out why that might be the case.

When teams were getting upset all over the place, and when OSU was slowly moving up in the rankings while people were talking about teams like California, Southern Florida, Boston College (because of how well they were playing at the time), I was saying to myself that OSU is going to make it to the NC game where it could be facing an SEC team again, and it could be deja vu all over again.

LSU is a good team. But like OSU, they have their "weaknesses". I don't think they are on the same level as a Florida last year. Could I be wrong? Sure.

But to be honest - I really don't think Tressel, now that they have gotten the shot to be in the game again, and after last year's embarrassment, is going to let this team get embarrassed again.

This is a golden opportunity to get that "monkey" off their backs from last year's game. I think those OSU players realize that.

Plus - they aren't going into this game, like last year, with all the expectations and hype. IMHO, Florida got no respect last year going into that game. Everything was OSU. And Florida was reading/hearing all that stuff being said and it got them fired up. Are those tables now reversed this year with everyone saying OSU ain't got a chance and LSU will clean their clocks?

We'll see. ;)

traderumor
12-03-2007, 05:13 PM
The legend of how good 2006 UF was continues to be spun. They were all-world half of one football game and suddenly they were OU with the Selmon Brothers...

Chip R
12-03-2007, 05:20 PM
The legend of how good 2006 UF was continues to be spun. They were all-world half of one football game and suddenly they were OU with the Selmon Brothers...


It was good enough, wasn't it?

Unassisted
12-03-2007, 05:23 PM
Personally, the fact that Hawaii isn't in the championship game, that David isn't tilting at Goliath, strikes me as ridiculous. We were told last year that Boise St. couldn't really beat a major program and then it went out and took down Oklahoma in an absolute classic of a game. While I'm sure Ohio St. and Florida fans still cared about the outcome of the supposed national championship, it was an anti-climactic piece of dreck.

The same will happen this year if Hawaii beats Georgia. In that case they ought to call Ohio St.-LSU the Oligarch Bowl.
I think many poll voters used Hawaii's (low) strength of schedule as their main argument to keep them in the lower echelon of the Top 25 this season. That subjective downgrade combined with the objective downgrade provided by the power rankings doomed Hawaii's chances at a BCS title shot.

It seems to me like that type of thinking by the poll voters dilutes the value of the BCS rankings. If the voters are so arbitrary about adhering to the power rankings, why bother to include the subjective voting in the BCS rankings?

After over a decade of this system, it seems like there ought to be enough raw data to evaluate the fairness of the system in an objective way. It would be interesting to see whether there truly is a wider variance between the power rankings and the polls for non-BCS conferences.

joshnky
12-03-2007, 05:28 PM
OK.

This came out of a paper that covered the Tenn-LSU contest:

"Tennessee found it hard to score against an LSU defense that entered Saturday ranked first in the SEC and third in the nation in total defense."

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071202/SPORTS0601/712020421/1035

1st in the SEC and third in the entire nation sounds awfully good to me.

3rd in total defense (WV 4th, OSU 1st)
20th in scoring defense (7th if you remove the points accumulated in OT, OSU 1st, WV 7th)
14th in rushing defense (5th if you take out the Arkansas game, BC 1st, OSU 3rd)
9th in passing defense (OSU 1st, Rutgers 2nd, Notre Dame 3rd)

Clearly LSU has a good defense but it is not the dominant force it is made out to be. Ohio St ranks above them in every category and, in fact, the team that they are most similar to statistically is West Virginia. Do you here anyone raving about West Virginia's offense? While the Big East may not be as strong as the SEC, it is still a league with several strong offenses so don't discredit WVU's effort. And I should say that LSU beat there first three opponents 137-7. They've been very average since then.

OnBaseMachine
12-03-2007, 06:52 PM
Interesting thing I heard last night. The SEC commish is the BCS coordinator. Hmmm.

traderumor
12-03-2007, 07:00 PM
It was good enough, wasn't it?Not the point. It is just growing tiresome to see the team put into legendary status on the basis of one great half of football where a team could do no wrong.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 07:06 PM
Most powerful people in sports:

1. Roger Goodell Commissioner, NFL
2. Tiger Woods Golfer
3. David Stern Commissioner, NBA
4. George Bodenheimer President, ESPN, ABC Sports; co-chairman, Disney Media Networks
5. Bud Selig Commissioner, MLB
6. Brian France Chairman, CEO NASCAR
7. Dick Ebersol Chairman, NBC Universal Sports & Olympics
8. Phil Knight Chairman, Nike
9. Sean McManus President, CBS News and Sports
10. Rupert Murdoch Chairman, CEO, News Corp.
11. Michael Jordan Managing Member of Basketball Operations, Charlotte Bobcats
12. Scott Boras President, Boras Corp.
13. Peyton Manning Quarterback, Indianapolis Colts
14. David Hill Chairman, CEO, Fox Sports
15. Donald Fehr Union boss, MLB
16. Myles Brand President, CEO, NCAA
17. David Beckham Soccer star
18. Jacques Rogge President, IOC
19. LeBron James Forward, Cleveland Cavaliers
20. Tony Ponturo VP, Global Media and Sports Marketing, Anheuser-Busch
21. Phil Anschutz Founder, Anschutz Entertainment Group
22. Herbert Hainer Chairman, CEO, Adidas
23. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. NASCAR driver
24. Brian Roberts Chairman, CEO, Comcast
25. George Steinbrenner Principal Owner, New York Yankees
26. Theodore Forstmann Chairman, CEO, IMG
27. Gary Bettman Commissioner, NHL
28. Alex Rodriguez Third baseman, New York Yankees
29. Joseph S. Blatter President, FIFA
30. Roger Federer Tennis player
31. Jim Delany Commissioner, Big Ten Conference
32. Dick Pound Chairman, World Anti-Doping Agency
33. Gene Upshaw Chairman, NFLPA
34. Tim Finchem Commissioner, PGA
35. Lance Armstrong Cyclist
36. John Skipper EVP, content, ESPN
37. Mark Parker CEO, President, Nike
38. David Levy President, Turner Sports, Inc.
39. Barry Bonds Outfielder, San Francisco Giants
40. Daniel Snyder Owner, Washington Redskins
41. Derek Jeter Shortstop, New York Yankees
42. Tim Leiweke President, CEO, Anschutz Entertainment Group
43. Paul Allen Owner, Seattle Seahawks, Portland TrailBlazers
44. Robert DuPuy President, COO, MLB
45. LaDainian Tomlinson Running back, San Diego Chargers
46. Tim Brosnan EVP for business, MLB
47. Jerry Reinsdorf Owner, Chicago Bulls, Chicago White Sox
48. Larry Lucchino President, CEO, Boston Red Sox
49. Ed Goren President, FOX Sports
50. Mark Cuban Owner, Dallas Mavericks
51. Mark Ford President, Sports Illustrated Group
52. Bob Bowman President, CEO, MLB Advanced Media
53. Jerry Jones Owner, Dallas Cowboys, Dallas Desperados
54. Roger Penske Owner, Penske Racing
55. Chase Carey CEO, president, DirecTV
56. Jeff Gordon NASCAR driver
57. Bernie Ecclestone Head of Formula 1
58. Jeff Urban SVP, sports marketing, Gatorade/PepsiCo.
59. George Pyne President, IMG Sports and Entertainment
60. Omar Minaya EVP of Baseball Operations, General Manager, NY Mets
61. Sidney Crosby Center, Pittsburgh Penguins
62. Jack Roush Founder, CEO, Roush Fenway Racing
63. Ross Greenburg CEO, HBO Sports
64. Robert Kraft Owner, Chairman, CEO New England Patriots
65. John Henry Principal Owner, Boston Red Sox; Roush Fenway Racing
66. John Walsh SVP, executive editor, ESPN Internet Group
67. Katie Bayne Chief Marketing Officer, Coca-Cola North America
68. Eric Grubman EVP, finance and strategic acquisitions, NFL
69. John Galloway VP, sports and media, Pepsi North America
70. Tom Brady Quarterback, New England Patriots
71. Tony Hawk Skateboarding tycoon
72. Mark Steinberg SVP and global managing director of golf, IMG
73. Maria Sharapova Tennis player
74. Tony Stewart NASCAR driver
75. The Maloof Family Owners, Sacramento Kings, Sacramento Monarchs
76. Arnold Palmer PGA legend
77. Randy Levine President, New York Yankees
78. Shaquille O'Neal Center, Miami Heat
79. Casey Wasserman Chairman, CEO, Wasserman Media Group
80. James Dolan Chairman, MSG; President, CEO Cablevision Systems
81. John Madden NFL commentator
82. John Kosner SVP, General Manager, ESPN New Media
83. Arn Tellem President, WMG Management
84. Bruton Smith Chairman, CEO, Speedway Motorsports
85. Adam Silver Deputy commissioner, COO, NBA
86. Charlie Denson President, Nike Brand
87. Tony Petitti EVP, executive producer, CBS Sports
88. Kobe Bryant Point guard, Los Angeles Lakers
89. Yao Ming Center, Houston Rockets
90. Tom Condon NFL Agent, CAA
91. Arte Moreno Owner, Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
92. Brian Cashman General manager, New York Yankees
93. Joe Gibbs Head Coach, Washington Redskins; NASCAR team owner
94. Heidi Ueberroth President, Global Marketing Partnerships and International Business Operations, NBA
95. Earvin "Magic" Johnson NBA legend
96. Billy Beane Vice-president, general manager, Oakland Athletics
97. Micky Arison Owner, Miami Heat; chairman of NBA board of governors
98. Lesa France-Kennedy President International Speedway
99. David Berson EVP, program planning and strategy, ESPN
100. Donna Orender President, WNBA

http://www.businessweek.com/table/07/0926_power100.htm

There is very little question who the most powerful conference commisioner is in this whole thing and it is Mr. Big Ten.

Nice try OBM.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 07:09 PM
Not the point. It is just growing tiresome to see the team put into legendary status on the basis of one great half of football where a team could do no wrong.

But a dominating performance by OSU this season will show what a cream puff LSU was, right?

BuckeyeRed27
12-03-2007, 08:06 PM
But a dominating performance by OSU this season will show what a cream puff LSU was, right?

Well it would depend on how it went down.

MaineRed
12-03-2007, 08:27 PM
Spreads are out.

LSU is the 6 point favorite.

Georgia opens at -10

USC is favored by 13.5 of Illinois

Sea Ray
12-03-2007, 09:45 PM
Do you here anyone raving about West Virginia's offense? While the Big East may not be as strong as the SEC, it is still a league with several strong offenses so don't discredit WVU's effort. And I should say that LSU beat there first three opponents 137-7. They've been very average since then.
If I had a vote I'd have voted in USC. I think they are the best two loss team in the country...probably the best team in the country

GAC
12-04-2007, 06:58 AM
But a dominating performance by OSU this season will show what a cream puff LSU was, right?

tr was referring to the 2006 Florida team.

And who has said or even implied that LSU was a cream puff?

OSU has it's weaknesses. Every team, for the most part, has them. Are you saying that LSU doesn't? Or that discussing them is somehow disrespecting the LSU program?

These two teams, as well as the teams in every other bowl game, are going to analyzed and critiqued until we are all blue in the face.

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 08:23 AM
And who has said or even implied that LSU was a cream puff?

"Even implied"?

The guy predicting a score of 86-3 for starters.


tr was referring to the 2006 Florida team.

I know. A Florida team that destroyed OSU. A Florida team he is undermining. My question was simple:

"But a dominating performance by OSU this season will show what a cream puff LSU was, right?"

There are plenty of suggestions of LSU being a cream puff but even if there was nobody, what is wrong with my question? The guy is trashing a team that blew OSU out of the water, discrediting their win. Just asking what he is going to say if OSU wins in the fashion Florida did?

Not sure why I need to show proof that someone has called LSU a cream puff (which they have) to ask that question.

Chad Johnson, GAC. Chad Johnson.

OUReds
12-04-2007, 09:06 AM
"Even implied"?

The guy predicting a score of 86-3 for starters.

Fair enough, but you are blending two different posters here without proper attribution. Traderumor's post inspired your original question.


But a dominating performance by OSU this season will show what a cream puff LSU was, right?

His original post had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of this year's LSU team. Yet you use it to try and imply that he has a double standard.

The guy predicting a score of 86 - 3 is onbasemachine in the prediction thread. One guy, not a big ten/OSU fan, who probably made that post a little toungue in cheek, who you claim holds a view indicative of the rest of the board ("for starters").

As an interesting side note, there are 10 overall people in that thread who think LSU will win as opposed to 8 who think OSU will win at the present time.

To answer your question, just for fun, of course it doesn't mean that a dominating performance by OSU this season will show what a cream puff LSU was. It will show that OSU, givin the complex interplay of factors present on that day, was the better team on that day.

Roy Tucker
12-04-2007, 09:39 AM
As an OSU fan, when someone brings up the 2006 NC game, I say "yep, Florida kicked our butts big time" and I shut up. Anything else is easily interpreted as whining and equivocating.

Seeing it is a defacto home game, LSU as a 6 point favorite sounds about right. I like the idea of OSU playing snot-bubble football and avoiding the spread offense (they need to avoid leaning on Boeckman to win the game). Tressel can manage a close game well. And, up until last year's NC game, I thought he made in-game adjustments well. If LSU's defense is healthy, it is scary good.

And my expectations of this game aren't nearly as sky-high as they were last year, i.e. I hope they win instead of expecting them to win.

bucksfan2
12-04-2007, 10:55 AM
Maine quite taking everything so personal. The game is over a month away and you will drive yourself crazy with all the talk about LSU OSU.

I said this at the start of the season and will say it now, what is the difference between LSU and OSU? The only think I can think of now is the number of losses, the conference, and the outcome of last years bowl. Both teams lost a significant amount of talent to the draft but they have reloaded nicely. Both have big time performers on the defensive side of the ball as well as the offensive side of the ball. To be honest I think the national perception is what allowed LSU to leap frog all the teams into the championship game.

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 11:20 AM
Fair enough, but you are blending two different posters here without proper attribution. Traderumor's post inspired your original question.

His original post had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of this year's LSU team. Yet you use it to try and imply that he has a double standard.

The guy predicting a score of 86 - 3 is onbasemachine in the prediction thread. One guy, not a big ten/OSU fan, who probably made that post a little toungue in cheek, who you claim holds a view indicative of the rest of the board ("for starters").

Actually I am not blending two posters. traderumor is underminding Florida's win because they played a perfect half of football as he put it. I'm simply ASKING is he going to undermine the OSU win if they blow out LSU or he is going to call LSU a cream puff? It has nothing to do with the take of the board or disprect for LSU.

The reason OBM got brought up is to anwer GAC who wanted to know "who is even implying LSU is a cream puff on the board?" OBM has nothing to do with the question I posed to traderumor.


To answer your question, just for fun, of course it doesn't mean that a dominating performance by OSU this season will show what a cream puff LSU was. It will show that OSU, givin the complex interplay of factors present on that day, was the better team on that day.

That is all great and good but you aren't the one who is discrediting Florida for, "given the complex interplay of the factors present on that day, being the better team THAT day."

If you were I would have posed the question to you instead of traderumor. It wasn't a question to the board, it was a question to traderumor given that he is the one who said it.

Maybe I do take this "personally". But it gets old when I question someone for saying that about last years game when I know as well as everyone here that a similar take is not going to accepted if this years game goes just as it did last year, except OSU wins.

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 11:23 AM
As an OSU fan, when someone brings up the 2006 NC game, I say "yep, Florida kicked our butts big time" and I shut up. Anything else is easily interpreted as whining and equivocating.

Bingo!

The only thing I would say is that the 06 game is brought up more by people who want to discredit Florida than it does as evidence of anything.

I'm a Florida fan and I have yet to bring up the 06 game in any of these discussions.

OUReds
12-04-2007, 11:26 AM
As I see it, traderumor was not discrediting Florida at all. It would be foolish to think Florida wasn't the better team that day.

I think it IS very vaild to say that far too much has been read into OSU's defeat last year. That is a very different position then the one you are interpreting.

Edit: Do I read your last paragraph correctly in that you think an OSU win will result in hordes of OSU fans descending on this thread after the game claiming that LSU was a cream puff? If so, I very much disagree. I suppose some will, but most will not.

Roy Tucker
12-04-2007, 11:32 AM
Actually I am not blending two posters. traderumor is underminding Florida's win because they played a perfect half of football as he put it. I'm simply ASKING is he going to undermine the OSU win if they blow out LSU or he is going to call LSU a cream puff? It has nothing to do with the take of the board or disprect for LSU.

The reason OBM got brought up is to anwer GAC who wanted to know "who is even implying LSU is a cream puff on the board?" OBM has nothing to do with the question I posed to traderumor.



That is all great and good but you aren't the one who is discrediting Florida for, "given the complex interplay of the factors present on that day, being the better team THAT day."

If you were I would have posed the question to you instead of traderumor. It wasn't a question to the board, it was a question to traderumor given that he is the one who said it.

Maybe I do take this "personally". But it gets old when I question someone for saying that about last years game when I know as well as everyone here that a similar take is not going to accepted if this years game goes just as it did last year, except OSU wins.

Can you flow chart this? It is quite the ball of threads.

My head spins.

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 12:02 PM
As I see it, traderumor was not discrediting Florida at all. It would be foolish to think Florida wasn't the better team that day.

I think it IS very vaild to say that far too much has been read into OSU's defeat last year. That is a very different position then the one you are interpreting.

Edit: Do I read your last paragraph correctly in that you think an OSU win will result in hordes of OSU fans descending on this thread after the game claiming that LSU was a cream puff? If so, I very much disagree. I suppose some will, but most will not.

I guess we can agree then, traderumor is being foolish. It isn't about "far too much being read into that game." These comments about Florida and their "perfect half of football (does this include the opening kickoff?) started the night of the game. He didn't give any time for anything to be read into it. He was too busy warning Gator fans to not read to much into the score.

No, you did not read that paragraph correctly. I'm not talking about hordes of fans doing anything. I was talking to one poster in particular who a specific question was asked of. It was not a general question to OSU fans. It wasn't an accusation that all OSU fans or even the majority of them think LSU is a creampuff. It isn't about that at all. I simply want to know, if OSU blows out LSU, what is the talk going to be about? Their lucky half of football or how poor of an opponent LSU was? And again, I am talking to one person, not OSU fans.

The only reason I pointed out that someone is in fact calling LSU a joke is because of the replies insinuating that NOBODY is saying such things. I don't care what team the guy cheers for, doesn't change the fact that he is running around predicting a score of 86-3. It is a non issue until someone implies that NOBODY is saying such things on the board.

I get accused of taking things personally but look at what I have to deal with when I simply as a question of a guy who refuses to credit the Florida Gators for winning the title last season. I don't get a reply from traderumor but a bunch of OSU fans who accuse me of saying a bunch of things I never said.

I asked the guy if he is going to have a similar take on the game if it goes as it did last year, except with OSU winning and I have to reply to charges that I said everyone thinks LSU is a creampuff.

I'm fine saying I take it personally. Are you guys that can't deal with a percieved negative word about OSU willing to concede the same things about yourself?

OUReds
12-04-2007, 12:23 PM
I guess we can agree then, traderumor is being foolish.

We can agree to disagree. I won't put words into TR's mouth, but in the context of this thread I think you are overreacting

I don't mind hearing negative things about the bucks, god knows they have their warts like any team.

I sincerely don't believe many other people here take it personal either.

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 12:32 PM
I don't care what the context of the thread is, he is undermining the win by Florida and has been doing it since the night of the game.

If you aren't interested in putting words in his mouth why are we even having this conversation? Your participation at the moment is all about telling me what he really means or what he isn't saying in the context of the thread.

Go read last years title game thread, even OSU fans were questioning his take on how much credit Florida deserves. I'm not going to post his comments from that thread because all I repsonded to was a post from this thread. But all I am getting is answers from people "who don't want to put words in his mouth".

Why stop now?

Danny Serafini
12-04-2007, 12:44 PM
If anyone would like some entertaining reading, here are the individual Harris poll votes. http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/newsletters/bcsnews/HICFP_Individual_Rankings_Dec_2_2007.pdf

traderumor
12-04-2007, 12:57 PM
I don't care what the context of the thread is, he is undermining the win by Florida and has been doing it since the night of the game.

If you aren't interested in putting words in his mouth why are we even having this conversation? Your participation at the moment is all about telling me what he really means or what he isn't saying in the context of the thread.

Go read last years title game thread, even OSU fans were questioning his take on how much credit Florida deserves. I'm not going to post his comments from that thread because all I repsonded to was a post from this thread. But all I am getting is answers from people "who don't want to put words in his mouth".

Why stop now?

Dude, let it go, move on. You could call me a cheater, a liar, a Michigan fan, a John Cooper apologist, claim that I admitted the SEC is the greatest conference ever in the history of the world, and that I smoked dope with Gordon Gee in my days at tOSU (I did not inhale), but I am not giving you one more comment about whatever the subject matter of this thread happens to be.

I will add that researching what I had to say in the title game thread is more than a little bit imbalanced considering the overall importance of any person's opinion on this stuff.

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 01:32 PM
An OSU who is still making excuses almost a year later, telling a Florida fan who is much more interested in talking about this year (and not Florida) to "LET IT GO, MOVE ON" seems quite ironic.

I could argue about last years game and have a very hefty margin of defeat on my side. But I don't care about last year. It is 2007, not 2006. The game that matters now is going to be played in 2008, not 2007. And that is why you won't hear this Gator fan bringing up last year. Most of us, Buckeyes and Gators have moved on from last year. It is you traderumor who seems to be stuck in some January 2007 mud.

OUReds
12-04-2007, 04:48 PM
Here's an equivalent coaches' poll link

Coaches Poll (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/graphics/coaches_fb_poll_2007/flash.htm)

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 06:49 PM
Frank Beamer has LSU number 1. Guess he agrees the game they played in September was in fact this sesaon.

Steve Spurrier has the Buckeyes #5, the coach of Florida International has them 6th.

I see Stoops has his team number one and LSU sixth with Kansas and Mizzou both in the top 4. Nobody else has LSU this low. Only Spurrier, Stoops old boss has OU ranked number 1.

To be fair Miles has his team number 1 as well. The rest of his ballot looks genuine though, IMO.

All but one of the Big Ten coaches, including Tressel have LSU number 2. Joe Tller has them 3rd.

GAC
12-04-2007, 10:08 PM
"Even implied"?

The guy predicting a score of 86-3 for starters.

OU pretty much explained my point.....


Fair enough, but you are blending two different posters here without proper attribution.....

The guy predicting a score of 86 - 3 is onbasemachine in the prediction thread. One guy, not a big ten/OSU fan, who probably made that post a little toungue in cheek, who you claim holds a view indicative of the rest of the board ("for starters").


I know. A Florida team that destroyed OSU. A Florida team he is undermining. My question was simple:

"But a dominating performance by OSU this season will show what a cream puff LSU was, right?"

And again I state that it's apple and oranges. It's a totally ridiculous analogy. No one, who was being serious in these discussions, and other than yourself, has called or alluded to anyone as being a cream puff. That is your own exaggeration.

If OSU dominates LSU, then NO, it does not mean that LSU is a cream puff. No more then, IMO, Florida destroying OSU last year makes OSU to be a cream puff.

You don't get into the NC game being a cream puff. Now maybe you don't believe that; but most do.


There are plenty of suggestions of LSU being a cream puff

OK. Show us. And again keep in mind you said PLENTY.

I've seen far more references by you alluding to OSU being a cream puff, then the other way around. ;)


Not sure why I need to show proof that someone has called LSU a cream puff (which they have) to ask that question.

Because you're the one who leveled that accusation that someone did. :lol:

Funny how you can come on here and demand evidence from others; but when you're asked to do likewise you say you don't see where you should have to.


The reason OBM got brought up is to anwer GAC who wanted to know "who is even implying LSU is a cream puff on the board?" OBM has nothing to do with the question I posed to traderumor.


The only reason I pointed out that someone is in fact calling LSU a joke is because of the replies insinuating that NOBODY is saying such things. I don't care what team the guy cheers for, doesn't change the fact that he is running around predicting a score of 86-3. It is a non issue until someone implies that NOBODY is saying such things on the board.

Then I guess you need to go after OBM then. You two seem to have a "love-hate" relationship at trying to antagonize each other. Quit taking what he says and then somehow applying it to those fans of OSU/Big Ten.

He's a HUGE Pac-10 guy.

Besides - I think he was trying to have fun with you, and bait you, with that ridiculous 86-3 prediction....and you bit, because no one else on this thread has called LSU a cream puff or a joke. ;)

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 10:24 PM
The cream puff remark was a term I came up with and I never accussed anyone of using it. Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

I was simply asking, based on his reaction to Florida's dismantling of Ohio State if he was going to have the same reaction and discredit OSU or was he going to go on and explain how LSU wasn't a worthy opponent if there was a similar result but with OSU winning?

OBM has nothing to do with this and I don't really understand why you are telling me to go after him. I'm doing my best to ignore his baiting (glad you can see it). The only reason I brought him up was because you GAC said NOBODY is implying that LSU is a creampuff. All I said about OBM was that he was an example of someone who was in fact implying those things.

I know what OBM is, a Pac 10 guy. But you still can't read his post and tell me he is calling LSU a worthy title opponent. Quite amazing what he can get away with saying about LSU actually and instead he gets treated like a hero for successfully baiting me. Congrats OBM, you really got me to go off.


Because you're the one who leveled that accusation that someone did.

And I quickly gave you a valid answer on who I was talking about. But again it has nothing to do with the question I posed to traderumor.

I really don't know why you want to make this about OBM, GAC. I don't care to have any discussion with him because other than your inquiries I haven't had anything to say about him in relation to his discussion.

So nice to see that such blatant baiting while making no effort to participate in discussions is encouraged.

I'd love to see how long OBM would last if he was making similar comments about OSU that he is LSU and I'd like to see how long someone would last if they ran around discrediting OSU for a blowout title game win the way traderumor does.

I can guarantee ole objective GAC would have something to say. But say it about LSU and he gets a good laugh out of it. You sure as hell wouldn't come to the defense of such actions.

GAC
12-04-2007, 10:36 PM
The cream puff remark was a term I came up with and I never accussed anyone of using it. Not sure why that is so hard to understand.


There are plenty of suggestions of LSU being a cream puff....Not sure why I need to show proof that someone has called LSU a cream puff (which they have)



I was simply asking, based on his reaction to Florida's dismantling of Ohio State if he was going to have the same reaction and discredit OSU or was he going to go on and explain how LSU wasn't a worthy opponent if there was a similar result but with OSU winning?

I don't want to presume to speak for tr, but I don't think he was alluding to Florida not being a worthy opponent.


OBM has nothing to do with this and I don't really understand why you are telling me to go after him. I'm doing my best to ignore his baiting (glad you can see it). The only reason I brought him up was because you GAC said NOBODY is implying that LSU is a creampuff.

I said.....


No one, who was being serious in these discussions, and other than yourself, has called or alluded to anyone as being a cream puff. That is your own exaggeration.

MaineRed
12-04-2007, 10:49 PM
But it wasn't an exaggeration, it was a simple question. I wasn't implying anyone said that. I don't know how many ways I can tell you that. You don't want to read into what others are saying but you find it OK to do it with me? I wanted to know IF he was GOING to say that IF OSU blew out LSU. I really just wanted to know if he was going to discredit OSU the way he did Florida if OSU played that perfect half of football? I'm guessing no. Instead I can see the talk centering around how LSU "didn't deserve to be there."

Again, not saying someone or anyone has said that. I'm saying I can see the guy who can't say much good about Florida going in that direction if OSU were to win in similar fashion. I was just trying to find out what his reaction would be to that question. Really that is it. I'm not sure why it has turned into an international incident by a bunch of people who keep telling me they don't want to speak for tr when that is the only reason they are presently involved in this dialogue in the first place.


I don't want to presume to speak for tr, but I don't think he was alluding to Florida not being a worthy opponent.

I know you will just go and discredit this or say he meant something else but you can decide for yourself what this is supposed to mean.


Where is all the debate for UF being in the game in the first place?

That was posted shortly after the conclusion of the game. He doesn't need to allude to Florida not being worthy as he has come right out and said it.

RedFanAlways1966
12-04-2007, 11:09 PM
A few things in my head...

(1) How good is LSU quarterback Matt Flynn? The stats are not bad, but not spectacular either (17 TDs, 10 INTs). He is not a runner (avg. 2.4 yds/att.)... and most know that a running QB (Juice Williams, etc) gives the OSU defense problems.

(2) LSU running back Jacob Hester. 1,017 yards on the year. Only four 100-yard games, but had 7 games with less than 15 carries in the game. Averaging over 5 yards a carry. Is he a real threat?

You look at the individual offensive stats and nothing jumps out as "this guy is a for sure 1st rounder in the NFL". But the team scores points... held to under 30 points only twice and the 21-14 win over TENN in the SEC title game (w/ the backup QB) was the lowest they scored. OSU statistically is one of the best defensive units in the country. Overrated due to the competition this year? Matchup well with names like Flynn and Hester? Based on stats... (QB) Todd Boeckman over Flynn & (RB) Chris Wells over Hester. Different schedules of course.

(3) LSU's defense? How good is it? Against ranked opponents the team has averaged giving up 24.14 points/game. Take away the Virginia Tech game (allowed 7 pts) and they gave up 27 points per game on average. Take away the Kentucky game (3 OTs and lots of add'l scores) and the V-Tech game and the avg. allowed is 23.8 points/game.

Ohio State's defense has averaged allowing 11 points/game when facing ranked opponents. Of course those ranked teams were the likes of Purdue, Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan. Not quite the offenses of South Carolina, Florida, Kentucky, Auburn, Alabama and Tennessee.

bucksfan2
12-05-2007, 12:05 PM
A few things in my head...

(1) How good is LSU quarterback Matt Flynn? The stats are not bad, but not spectacular either (17 TDs, 10 INTs). He is not a runner (avg. 2.4 yds/att.)... and most know that a running QB (Juice Williams, etc) gives the OSU defense problems.

(2) LSU running back Jacob Hester. 1,017 yards on the year. Only four 100-yard games, but had 7 games with less than 15 carries in the game. Averaging over 5 yards a carry. Is he a real threat?

You look at the individual offensive stats and nothing jumps out as "this guy is a for sure 1st rounder in the NFL". But the team scores points... held to under 30 points only twice and the 21-14 win over TENN in the SEC title game (w/ the backup QB) was the lowest they scored. OSU statistically is one of the best defensive units in the country. Overrated due to the competition this year? Matchup well with names like Flynn and Hester? Based on stats... (QB) Todd Boeckman over Flynn & (RB) Chris Wells over Hester. Different schedules of course.

(3) LSU's defense? How good is it? Against ranked opponents the team has averaged giving up 24.14 points/game. Take away the Virginia Tech game (allowed 7 pts) and they gave up 27 points per game on average. Take away the Kentucky game (3 OTs and lots of add'l scores) and the V-Tech game and the avg. allowed is 23.8 points/game.

Ohio State's defense has averaged allowing 11 points/game when facing ranked opponents. Of course those ranked teams were the likes of Purdue, Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan. Not quite the offenses of South Carolina, Florida, Kentucky, Auburn, Alabama and Tennessee.

1) Very good question. When I was watching the LSU Arkansas game I kept thinking to myself that Flynn is going to throw a costly interception. I just got the feeling that his passes were off the mark and some decisions he was making wern't the best. Listening to the announcers it seemed like the knew quite a few plays based on the formation. Flynn is average, OSU should make him beat them.

2) I believe they use a RB by committee. Hester can play both RB and FB. If he plays FB they throw the ball to him. They have 5 different RB's that they play.

3) I think the D is a tad bit over rated. That Dorsey wont the best defensive player was a scam. He is a very very good player but has been playing hurt for most of the season. It will be intersting to see if he heals and also if he does if he is in game shape. I wonder what kind of wrinkles Tressel will bring into the game plan for LSU. One thing that struck me as odd was against Arkansas when McFadden was playing QB he threw a pass down field about 20 yards and it was defended by 3 tigers. I found it ironic that they would have that many people in coverage with a RB paying QB who max could probably throw the ball 20-30 yards.

traderumor
12-05-2007, 08:58 PM
That was posted shortly after the conclusion of the game. He doesn't need to allude to Florida not being worthy as he has come right out and said it.
That was actually a sarcastic remark toward all the pregame debate about how UF didn't deserve to be in the game and toward those who were belly-aching for a OSU-UM rematch. I was totally against that rematch and thought UF deserved to be in it, which since you like to look at year-old posts, I'm sure you can find some saying just such a thing. But I'm sure you'll find some way to tell me that isn't what I meant.

I remember a spirited discussion with registerthis at one point about the BCS system if you care to check my memory out. Have fun searching. Me, I'm gonna go do something meaningful and productive.

MaineRed
12-05-2007, 10:42 PM
Dude, let it go, move on. You could call me a cheater, a liar, a Michigan fan, a John Cooper apologist, claim that I admitted the SEC is the greatest conference ever in the history of the world, and that I smoked dope with Gordon Gee in my days at tOSU (I did not inhale), but I am not giving you one more comment about whatever the subject matter of this thread happens to be.

:rolleyes:

traderumor
12-06-2007, 08:51 AM
:rolleyes:You'll have that when someone misrepresents you so badly. Now, please find another poster to stalk and try to engage in a conversation they have left, please. Or are you working on getting this thread deleted also?

MaineRed
12-06-2007, 09:10 AM
I was working on finding out what your take is going to be if OSU wins in a fashion that Florida did last season?

Are you going to run around, undermining OSU's win due to the perfect half of football or are you going to pat the Buckeyes on the back?

If starting personal flame wars is your way of ignoring this simple question, have at it. I want to talk football. If I misrepresented you it was not on purpose and certainly was not the first time something like that has happened on a message board.

I really just had a simple question and then people spent two pages misrepresenting what I said. I think I have done a pretty good job of trying to explain myself without getting out of hand or personal.

You on the other hand want to make it personal and have spent no time answering my very simple question. Seems you just want to be able to have the typical harsh take on teams that aren't your own and don't want to be called on it.

There are Florida fans here, have some respect. And if you can't have some respect don't blow up when someone has similar disdain for something OSU does like you have in the past. If there are lame excuses for a Florida win, there can also be lame excuses for an OSU win. But here is the thing, I don't want to make this about Florida. I'm not here to talk trash about Florida. I just wanted to know if you were going to have the same take if OSU plays that perfect half of football and someone shows up here and says you are blind if you saw anything other than that? About six people have answered that question for you. I guess you are too busy sending me nasty PMs to take the time to do what it would take to "end this". Just answer the question.

OUReds
12-06-2007, 09:16 AM
If starting personal flame wars is your way of ignoring this simple question, have at it.

:rolleyes:

bucksfan2
12-06-2007, 10:03 AM
Can we talk about this years games instead of the game last year?

traderumor
12-06-2007, 11:42 AM
I guess you are too busy sending me nasty PMs to take the time to do what it would take to "end this".
I will not circumvent the PM system of this board which I have been a member in good standing for over 5 years by posting my "nasty" PM, as much as I am tempted to do. I would appreciate it if you would do the same. However, mods, if you do not stop Maine Red from the personal attacks and trolling on the board and doing such things as above with PMs, then I will post it.

Chip R
12-06-2007, 11:47 AM
I will not circumvent the PM system of this board which I have been a member in good standing for over 5 years by posting my "nasty" PM, as much as I am tempted to do. I would appreciate it if you would do the same. However, mods, if you do not stop Maine Red from the personal attacks and trolling on the board and doing such things as above with PMs, then I will post it.


I wouldn't post any PMs if I were you. The "ignore" button is a wonderful feature.

Heath
12-06-2007, 11:58 AM
I'm tired reading this dreck. Can't you guys play nice?

The fingerpointing is worse here than my 2 boys fighting over a Hot Wheels.

This thread is closed. We'll start another Bowl/BCS thread at somepoint. But there is a "moritorium" on this topic. Moderators have asked people to be nice and stick to the discussion, which has not been followed. Moderators have the right to pull threads and content. If you have a problem with me, PM me and CC' Boss in it as well.