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View Full Version : Redszone Community Prospect vote: #2



dougdirt
11-15-2007, 03:07 PM
Vote for the player who you think is the Reds #2 prospect. We will go with this as far as you guys want to take it.

I will post a new list every 2 days with 10-15 options to vote on.

I left this poll as a non public one, but it was brought up in the last one that maybe we should make it public. Is anyone against making it public? If not, poll #3 will be made public.

If you feel like making an argument on why a guy should be voted here, feel free to vote and state why you voted for that player.

If there is someone that is not currently listed as an option to vote on, vote for 'other' then just state who you want to vote for in the thread.

If there is anyone you would like to see as an option on the next poll, just say so and if they garner enough support, they will be placed on the next poll. Guys with the lowest amount of votes will usually be removed for the next few guys who were talked about in the previous thread.

Prospect #1 - Jay Bruce

camisadelgolf
11-15-2007, 03:14 PM
I hope everyone does the right thing and writes in Luis Bolivar.

Benihana
11-15-2007, 03:27 PM
I think you'll be able to move to #3 in about an hour. No need to drag this out if it's not gonna be close.

Superdude
11-15-2007, 03:38 PM
I hope everyone does the right thing and writes in Luis Bolivar.

Bolivar sucks. The #2 spots obviously belongs to Tonys Gutierrez. Especially if you like Kevin Youkilis, plural first names, and sexy latino mustache's.

camisadelgolf
11-15-2007, 03:41 PM
Bolivar sucks. The #2 spots obviously belongs to Tonys Gutierrez. Especially if you like Kevin Youkilis, plural first names, and sexy latino mustache's.

I had Gutierrez in my top-five, but I want to see better defense from a first baseman before I consider him a #1 or #2 prospect.

Joseph
11-15-2007, 03:44 PM
3 and 4 will be interesting to see who thinks Cueto or Votto are the 'man'.

I could be wrong though and it could be as simple as the first two seem to be.

bucksfan2
11-15-2007, 04:13 PM
Went Cueto because I no longer think of Bailey as a prospect. I think of him as a red, same as Votto.

M2
11-15-2007, 04:52 PM
Reds pitchers who do well tend to have good control. Johnny Cueto is a control freak (career K:BB of 4.35). Meanwhile Homer Bailey has some major control issues. And that's why I'm picking Johnny Cueto here.

dougdirt
11-15-2007, 05:17 PM
I voted for Homer Bailey. Plus fastball. Plus curveball. He has age over Cueto and slightly better stuff across the board with performance at a higher level. I also loved the consistancy I saw toward the end of the year with his offspeed stuff.

TOBTTReds
11-15-2007, 05:33 PM
Went with Homer, the ceiling is too high still for him not to be above JC.

TOBTTReds
11-15-2007, 05:34 PM
Went Cueto because I no longer think of Bailey as a prospect. I think of him as a red, same as Votto.

Well aren't you going to feel left out in 2 of the top 4 votes.

RedsManRick
11-15-2007, 05:36 PM
I went Bailey out of habit and history, but looking back, I don't really see a reason at this point put Bailey over Cueto other than the scouts love of Bailey.

Bailey is just 3 months younger than Cueto, so that's a non-issue. Look at these stats, and tell me which guy you'd prefer.



Low A IP H/9 BB/9 K/9 HR/9 ERA
Bailey 103.7 7.7 5.4 10.8 0.4 4.43
Cueto 76 6.2 1.8 9.7 0.6 2.61

High A IP
Bailey 79 7.3 3.1 9.8 0.9 3.99
Cueto 146.3 7.7 2.8 8.4 0.6 3.38

AA IP
Bailey 68 6.6 3.7 10.2 0.1 1.59
Cueto 61 7.7 1.6 11.4 0.9 3.10

AAA IP
Bailey 67.3 6.6 4.3 7.9 0.5 3.08
Cueto 22 9.0 0.8 8.6 0.8 2.05

TOTAL IP
Bailey 318 7.1 4.2 9.8 0.5 3.42
Cueto 305.3 7.4 2.2 9.3 0.6 3.04

dougdirt
11-15-2007, 06:07 PM
RMR, I would still take Bailey given that he was a year younger at every level of the way than Cueto was for the most part. Both are very good prospects and Im glad we get them both.

Bip Roberts
11-15-2007, 06:09 PM
Picked bailey because he looks like christian bale at time

mlbfan30
11-15-2007, 06:17 PM
I picked Cueto since I think he will have a better chance at being an above average major league pitcher. Bailey obviously has more upside, but while he can be a #1, he could just as easily struggle due to his control. Cueto seems like a pitcher who might not be that #1, but I'd say his chance at being a #3 is a lot better than Bailey being a #3.

RedsManRick
11-15-2007, 06:28 PM
What's interesting to me is that Bailey's BB/9 has gone up at every level. Cueto's has gone down.

I don't mean this really, but you could say that if Bailey is Kerry Wood, Cueto is Mark Prior. Bottom line, I'm thrilled to have them both, but think any gap which may have existed between them is pretty much gone at this point. Moving forward, I'd put my money on JC.

OnBaseMachine
11-15-2007, 06:30 PM
Reds pitchers who do well tend to have good control. Johnny Cueto is a control freak (career K:BB of 4.35). Meanwhile Homer Bailey has some major control issues. And that's why I'm picking Johnny Cueto here.

I also picked Cueto as my number two. I'm still extremely high on Homer Bailey, however, I am a HUGE fan of Johnny Cueto.

Cyclone792
11-15-2007, 06:38 PM
The C in Cueto stands for command while the B in Bailey stands for Ball 4.

Cueto gets my vote.

Kc61
11-15-2007, 06:52 PM
Bailey still projects better, has more of a starting pitcher's frame. Even last year, when he was injured part of the time, he still moved up the ladder and pitched a few good major league games.

It's hard to break into the majors. I'm not sure Cueto will start off more successfully than Homer did. A vote for Homer.

eichstadtreds
11-15-2007, 08:30 PM
JC

Too many control problems for Homer. I see this as Homer being a five six inning pitcher throughout his career unless he learns too throw strikes on a consistent basis. I see them as basically having the same ceiling, but i like a prospect who throws strikes.

reds44
11-15-2007, 09:07 PM
As some others have stated, too many control issues for Homer while Cueto has great command. If Cueto were 6-4 and Bailey 5-11, this would be a no brainer.

It is something I have been saying since May, and I am not about to change now. My vote goes to Cueto.

Superdude
11-15-2007, 11:10 PM
If Cueto were 6-4 and Bailey 5-11, this would be a no brainer.

I've always wondered how much height actually effects pitches. Velocity-wise, Cueto and Bailey can't be that far apart. Bailey may have a tick more on the top end, but it sounds like they both sit in the low 90's with the potential to rare back for more. Their secondary stuff sounds like a wash. Cueto with the slightly better changeup and better command and Bailey with the better breaking ball without as much ability to use it effectively. If Cueto was 6-4 like you said, would he have the phenom label Bailey has or would he still be considered a potential #2 starter? I voted Bailey, but Cueto has certainly made himself an interesting argument.

AmarilloRed
11-15-2007, 11:32 PM
Johnny Cueto. I would give him the edge right now, but their positions could very well flip next year.

dougdirt
11-15-2007, 11:59 PM
I've always wondered how much height actually effects pitches. Velocity-wise, Cueto and Bailey can't be that far apart. Bailey may have a tick more on the top end, but it sounds like they both sit in the low 90's with the potential to rare back for more. Their secondary stuff sounds like a wash. Cueto with the slightly better changeup and better command and Bailey with the better breaking ball without as much ability to use it effectively. If Cueto was 6-4 like you said, would he have the phenom label Bailey has or would he still be considered a potential #2 starter? I voted Bailey, but Cueto has certainly made himself an interesting argument.

It actually was a strike 67% of the time he threw it in the major leagues this year. I don't know what other pitchers stats look like on their out pitches, but Batters that swung at Bailey's curveball turned those swings into hits just 8% of the time last year.... like I said, I don't know what other pitchers looked like with that data, but that has to be very good.

WMR
11-16-2007, 05:50 AM
I think they should be public.

I went with Cueto.

mth123
11-16-2007, 06:20 AM
I think a lot of people soured on Bailey because as a 21 y/o kid, he lost a little focus after being sent down and got shelled a couple of times in Sarasota (he was hurting as well BTW). I don't think that is as big a deal as some may be making it out to be and major league organizations don't usually base their opinions on such a micro view. I went with Bailey because I think he has more market value around baseball than the others at this time.

But, I think that Cueto has a chance to be very good and I wouldn't be surprised if he's not better than Bailey. That isn't a knock on Bailey. Its just that Cueto could be that good. I also considered Votto because the chances of him being a total bust is much lower than either of the pitchers. The Reds have 4 guys that could easily be the top prospect in many other organizations. I think its finally some relief after enduring decades of a relatively barren organization.

I'm in favor of a public vote.

Degenerate39
11-16-2007, 06:45 AM
First vote was a no-brainer for me but this one was tough. Bailey and Cueto and both studs but I had to go with Bailey

Benihana
11-16-2007, 10:16 AM
Time for #3?

Highlifeman21
11-16-2007, 10:26 AM
The C in Cueto stands for command while the B in Bailey stands for Ball 4.

Cueto gets my vote.

For the #2, I had to go with Joey Votto due to the fact he's more major league ready than both Bailey and Cueto.

Following that logic, and agreeing with Cyclone's alphabet lesson, I'd go with Votto, Cueto and Bailey, in that order.

Gallen5862
11-16-2007, 10:39 AM
I voted for Homer Bailey. I am glad we have Curto as well.

lollipopcurve
11-16-2007, 10:54 AM
Interesting contest here between Bailey, Votto and Cueto. If Bailey hadn't shown a better curve ball when he returned in September, I wouldn't have voted him here. But I think he's going to get stronger -- I was surprised at how thin he is -- making his fastball a dominating pitch. The secondary stuff has potential, and I didn't think his control issues were glaring -- he was generally around the zone, and the umpires were not quick to give him borderline calls. I like his competitiveness, too. And, despite the struggles he had, you never heard him make excuses. All in all, I think he has what it takes to be good, maybe very good.

dougdirt
11-16-2007, 11:09 AM
Poll #2 is done and Homer Bailey won it running away. Poll #3 is up now.

*BaseClogger*
11-22-2007, 06:12 PM
Reds pitchers who do well tend to have good control. Johnny Cueto is a control freak (career K:BB of 4.35). Meanwhile Homer Bailey has some major control issues. And that's why I'm picking Johnny Cueto here.

bingo