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Benihana
11-21-2007, 10:59 AM
1. Jay Bruce, of
2. Homer Bailey, rhp
3. Joey Votto, 1b/of
4. Johnny Cueto, rhp
5. Drew Stubbs, of
6. Devin Mesoraco, c
7. Todd Frazier, ss
8. Juan Francisco, 3b
9. Josh Roenicke, rhp
10. Matt Maloney, lhp

In hindsight, the Reds' success during the first part of the 2006 season was the worst thing that could have happened to them.

A new ownership group led by Bob Castellini took over in January 2006 and hired Wayne Krivsky as general manager a month later. Krivsky quickly went to work fixing a roster with some clear deficiencies, swinging preseason deals for Bronson Arroyo, Brandon Phillips and David Ross. Those moves helped Cincinnati jump to a 17-8 start that put it atop the National League Central at the end of April, and it appeared that Krivsky had a Midas touch for talent acquisition.

The reality was that the hot start was more a matter of luck than any actual improvement. The Reds were tied for first place in the division as late as Aug. 24, but they collapsed in September and have been trying to live up to unrealistic expectations ever since. Cincinnati finished fifth with a 72-90 record in 2007, and the rotation and bullpen are still as problematic as they were when Krivsky arrived.

After 12 years without a playoff appearance, Reds fans are understandably restless for some signs of success. Krivsky is facing discontent even though the team is actually closer to contending for a prolonged period of time than it has been in years. A farm system that has produced very little over the past decade has four top prospects ready to contribute.

Outfielder Jay Bruce became the first Cincinnati prospect to win Baseball America's Minor League Player of the Year award. He and first baseman Joey Votto should take up residence in the heart of the Reds' batting order in the very near future, while Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto are the organization's best pair of pitching prospects in several decades.

Behind them, Cincinnati has more depth in its system than it has had in recent years especially at third base, in the outfield and in the bullpen.

When the Reds' Fab Four make it to the big leagues, they'll join a club that has succeeded in turning other team's castoffs into solid regulars. Picking up Phillips for righthander Jeff Stevens was a masterstroke, as the young second baseman finally realized his considerable promise with a 30-30 season in 2007.

Cincinnati also poached former No. 1 overall pick Josh Hamilton from the Devil Rays via the major league Rule 5 draft at the 2006 Winter Meetings. Hamilton became one of the stories of the 2007 season with his amazing return from a nearly four-year layoff because of drug suspensions. Another Rule 5 pickup, Jared Burton, has become one of the club's most reliable relievers.

If there's a negative to the resurgence of the Reds system, it's that many of the people involved in the long-awaited turnaround are no longer with the team as Krivsky has put his stamp on the organization.

Johnny Almaraz, who signed Cueto and served as the team's farm director and international scouting director, quit after the 2006 season because he was unhappy with Krivsky. Assistant farm director Grant Griesser, field coordinator Tim Naehring, roving coordinator Rick Burleson, roving hitting instructor Jim Hickman, base-running coordinator Lynn Jones and Double-A Chattanooga manager Jayhawk Owens all were fired at the end of the 2007 season.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/265231.html

There will be a chat at 1:30 PM EST.

pahster
11-21-2007, 11:05 AM
No love for Dorn.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 11:12 AM
No love for Dorn.

or Travis Wood.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 11:15 AM
or Travis Wood.

I didn't think either of them would make it. Not that I agree with it exactly, although Dorn didn't make my top 10 either.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 11:25 AM
Mine would have gone like this:

1. Bruce
2. Bailey
3. Cueto
4. Votto
5. Frazier
6. Roenicke
7. Maloney
8. Wood
9. Stubbs
10. Dorn

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 11:30 AM
Just don't get the love for Maloney.... unless he has his fastball in the 90s now, I don't get the love for him. A sinker ball guy who allows a ton more fly balls than ground balls just worries me.

lollipopcurve
11-21-2007, 11:44 AM
BA almost always honors rcent first rounders -- thus the love for Stubbs and Mesoraco. Not a surprise at all.

I encourage folks to go to the BA site and ask questions for today's chat about the Reds system.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 11:47 AM
BA almost always honors rcent first rounders -- thus the love for Stubbs and Mesoraco. Not a surprise at all.

I encourage folks to go to the BA site and ask questions for today's chat about the Reds system.

You have to have a subscription to do so, so I am not sure there are a ton of guys on here that could do that. I wish they had smaller subscriptions available to purchase.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 11:52 AM
BA almost always honors rcent first rounders -- thus the love for Stubbs and Mesoraco. Not a surprise at all.


Yeah, it's almost like they're too lazy to really dig deep. Just pencil in whatever high draft pick from the year before.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 11:54 AM
Yeah, it's almost like they're too lazy to really dig deep. Just pencil in whatever high draft pick from the year before.

Or because those players for the most part have higher upsides and better skills....

lollipopcurve
11-21-2007, 12:08 PM
Or because those players for the most part have higher upsides and better skills....

I think that's partly true, but I also think that BA is an industry insider that wants to maintain good relationships within the game. Blasting teams' 1st round choices would not accomplish that.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 12:11 PM
Or because those players for the most part have higher upsides and better skills....

Well when B.J. Szymanski is listed as the Reds 4th best prospect in the organization (as he was in 2005), I think they begin to lose some credibility. Is Devin Mesoraco, the 18-year-old catcher who has yet to hit a lick at the professional level, really the 6th best prospect in the entire Reds organization? Or is it just that he was their 1st round pick from last year, and thus he must be one of the first guys mentioned? Stick around for a few years Doug, you'll start to get a better understanding for how things work. Your dedication to the Reds minor leagues is quite admirable, but you are still quite new to this.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 12:13 PM
Well when B.J. Szymanski is the Reds 4th best prospect in the organization (as he was in 2005), I think they begin to lose some credibility. Is Devin Mesoraco, the 18-year-old catcher who has yet to hit a lick at the professional level, really the 6th best prospect in the entire Reds organization? Or is it just that he was their 1st round pick from last year, and thus he must be one of the first guys mentioned?

Szymanski had 81 at bats when he was rated the 4th best prospect in the organization. The 2005 list was released post seaason 2004.

Mesoraco is 19 and yeah, I would say he has a solid argument for being the Reds 6th best prospect. He played with two injured thumbs all season. He has all the tools you would want out of a catcher is excellent defensively. The hitting will come around.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 12:14 PM
.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 12:15 PM
Szymanski had 81 at bats when he was rated the 4th best prospect in the organization. The 2005 list was released post seaason 2004.


My point EXACTLY

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 12:20 PM
My point EXACTLY

I fail to see your point. Prospects are rated on potential one day, not ability today.... at least by most people. What someone does today has little to do with what they might do 5 years from now. Especially in terms of guys under the age of 24.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 12:24 PM
I fail to see your point. Prospects are rated on potential one day, not ability today.... at least by most people. What someone does today has little to do with what they might do 5 years from now. Especially in terms of guys under the age of 24.

Well then maybe I just have a problem with rating someone who is 5 or more years away from the big leauges as a top prospect due to washout rate. I guess anyone can formulate any kind of "prospect" ranking based off any criteria they want. However when I look at these things, I want to not only base my evaluations off of a player's upside, but off of their likelihood to reach that ceiling. Maybe its a matter of a difference of opinion, but I don't think it is fair or realistic to ever rank someone who is more than a leap year away from contributing in the top 5 of anything. It's like creating a college recruiting magazine that profiles middle school athletes.

I've seen way too many Justin Gillmans, John Olivers, Chris Grulers and Ty Howingtons over the years to start projecting 18 year olds' contributions to the Reds with any high degree of confidence.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 12:27 PM
Well then maybe I just have a problem with rating someone who is 5 or more years away from the big leauges as a top prospect due to washout rate. I guess anyone can formulate any kind of "prospect" ranking based off any criteria they want. However when I look at these things, I want to not only base my evaluations off of a player's upside, but off of their likelihood to reach that ceiling. Maybe its a matter of a difference of opinion, but I don't think it is fair or realistic to ever rank someone who is more than a leap year away from contributing in the top 5 of anything. It's like creating a college recruiting magazine that profiles middle school athletes.

Well in hindsight I don't think anyone was projecting Szymanski to get to the big leagues at age 26 either. He washed out, but all prospects wash out. Not all of them, but all types. Pitchers, hitters, high schoolers, college kids, international kids, international free agents....

Benihana
11-21-2007, 12:32 PM
Well in hindsight I don't think anyone was projecting Szymanski to get to the big leagues at age 26 either. He washed out, but all prospects wash out. Not all of them, but all types. Pitchers, hitters, high schoolers, college kids, international kids, international free agents....

Of course they do, but there is a much higher degree of washout with players who have yet to accomplish anything in rookie ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not predicting doom and gloom for Mesoraco or anybody else. I'm just saying that until someone has produced consistently at the A ball level or better, they cannot be legitimately considered a top prospect in my eyes, so proceed with caution. Just my opinion.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 12:39 PM
Of course they do, but there is a much higher degree of washout with players who have yet to accomplish anything in rookie ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not predicting doom and gloom for Mesoraco or anybody else. I'm just saying that until someone has produced consistently at the A ball level or better, they cannot be legitimately considered a top prospect in my eyes, so proceed with caution. Just my opinion.

So David Price wouldn't be a Top 5 prospect in the Reds system if we had drafted him?

Benihana
11-21-2007, 12:45 PM
So David Price wouldn't be a Top 5 prospect in the Reds system if we had drafted him?

I believe David Price will be starting in AA or AAA this year, and is expected to be with the big club at some point this season. That's a little different than rookie ball.

A player who dominates at the major college level is often considered to be comparable to success at the high A level. Yet another reason why Drew Stubbs is such a disappointment.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 12:47 PM
I believe David Price will be starting in AA or AAA this year, and is expected to be with the big club at some point this season. That's a little different than rookie ball.

A player who dominates at the major college level is often considered to be comparable to success at the high A level. Yet another reason why Drew Stubbs is such a disappointment.

But he hasn't thrown a single pitch as a professional.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 12:52 PM
But he hasn't thrown a single pitch as a professional.

If you want to nitpick, that's fine. I would hope you get the general idea here.

If you want me to spell it out for you, I have no problem declaring that I have more confidence in a 6'7" pitcher who dominates at the major college level than a high school kid from the middle of nowhere that had little to no success once he made his professional debut in rookie ball.

Could the high school kid eventually succeed? Sure. But I would err on the side of caution before I declare him a top prospect.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 12:56 PM
If you want to nitpick, that's fine. I would hope you get the general idea here.

If you want me to spell it out for you, I have no problem declaring that I have more confidence in a 6'7" pitcher who dominates at the major college level than a high school kid from the middle of nowhere that had little to no success once he made his professional debut in rookie ball.

Could the high school kid eventually succeed? Sure. But I would err on the side of caution before I declare him a top prospect.

I thought we were talking about Szymanski. A college kid. In the end though, its all irrelevent and moot. No one ever gets these things right.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 01:00 PM
I thought we were talking about Szymanski. A college kid. In the end though, its all irrelevent and moot. No one ever gets these things right.

No, we were talking about Mesoraco, who comes in at #6 on this BA ranking despite having little to no success in rookie ball. That's fine though, I'm still rooting for the kid. The other reason I'm skeptical regarding these BA rankings is the fact that D-Mes ranked ahead of Lotzkar, despite the latter's sparkling debut. You could argue sample size, and you could also argue (and I would agree) that neither has any business in the Top 10. But if I had to put one of them up there, I would put Lotzkar ahead of Mesoraco because of their performance at the professional level, which given both of their pedigrees, I think has more bearing than the round they were drafted.

As far as Szymanski goes, he hardly played at what could be described as a major college program. With all due respect to Princeton (the college) and princeton (the poster), doing well in the Ivy League is a far cry from dominating at the College World Series. Could you do the latter and still wash out? Of course. But I'd bet on the kid dominating the CWS before the high school kid from nowhere that failed to impress in rookie ball.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 01:05 PM
What a high schooler did in rookie ball while playing with two hurt thumbs hardly gives me any worries about him. I didn't rank Mesoraco that high on my list, but I can certainly understand where it comes from given the scouting reports.

GoReds33
11-21-2007, 01:19 PM
I can't believe the lack of love for Roenicke. He made a huge step forward, and he means more to the Reds right now than a couple of the guys above him.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 01:23 PM
I can't believe the lack of love for Roenicke. He made a huge step forward, and he means more to the Reds right now than a couple of the guys above him.

Relief pitchers value is very little. I have noticed that in Cincinnat they tend to be overvalued simply becuase the Reds have a horrible bullpen. Relief pitchers are of some value, but nowhere near the value of a solid every day player who isn't even of the all star level.

Benihana
11-21-2007, 01:54 PM
Any word on the chat?

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 01:56 PM
Any word on the chat?

still going on Im sure. They usually last about an hour.

Kc61
11-21-2007, 03:44 PM
Relief pitchers value is very little. I have noticed that in Cincinnat they tend to be overvalued simply becuase the Reds have a horrible bullpen. Relief pitchers are of some value, but nowhere near the value of a solid every day player who isn't even of the all star level.

Doug, I assume your comment is limited to the world of scouting. Because in the real world of major league baseball, relievers, and particularly closers, are enormously important and, if good, have enormous value.

Look at the Brewers last year. IMO, the success they had is heavily attributable to the 8th and 9th inning relievers they ran out there in almost every winning game.

It's not as if the major leagues are overrun with great relievers so that each individual is of no importance. Many teams, like the Reds, have struggled to put together competent bullpens.

I can understanding discounting the value of middle relievers who may be interchangeable. But late inning types, with power stuff, are just as important as any other position on a team, with the exception of top-of-the-rotation starting pitchers.

TOBTTReds
11-21-2007, 04:47 PM
Q: Ed from NJ asks:
How much did Drew Stubbs turf toe actually affect his production?

A: J.J. Cooper: He gutted his way through the season, but it did have an impact, and it explains why he struggled to steal bases. I'll be very interested to see how he bounces back after offseason toe surgery.



Looks like edabbs was trying to get to the bottom of this.

He also gets a bit testy later:


Q: Ed from NJ asks:
How does Kyle from Middletown get 50 questions answered and I get zero? Mix it up JJ, mix it up.

A: J.J. Cooper: I'm trying to mix it up, but Kyle asked a lot of good questions early. Don't worry, I'm working through as many questions as I can get to, even if I have a turkey I need to go brine.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 04:51 PM
Doug, I assume your comment is limited to the world of scouting. Because in the real world of major league baseball, relievers, and particularly closers, are enormously important and, if good, have enormous value.
Not really, its based on the fact that you can build a good bullpen for basically nothing but failed starting pitchers.



Look at the Brewers last year. IMO, the success they had is heavily attributable to the 8th and 9th inning relievers they ran out there in almost every winning game.
I think it had to do with guys like Fielder, Braun, Hardy, Gallardo and Sheets a whole lot more than it did two relievers.



It's not as if the major leagues are overrun with great relievers so that each individual is of no importance. Many teams, like the Reds, have struggled to put together competent bullpens.
Teams that fail to put together competent bullpens like the Reds do so becuase they choose the wrong players.



I can understanding discounting the value of middle relievers who may be interchangeable. But late inning types, with power stuff, are just as important as any other position on a team, with the exception of top-of-the-rotation starting pitchers.
I ranked Josh Roenicke as my #10 prospect becuase he can be a closer.... but unless a prospect is a potential closer, he is not a real prospect in my mind. I will disagree that a late inning type is as important as any starting position player on a team if that player is actually a positive contributor to the team. Sure if the guy is Juan Castro, but there are maybe 3 relief pitchers in baseball that were as valuable or more valuable to his team than a guy like Dunn or Griffey or Phillips, or alex Gonzalez for that matter was to the Reds.

Kc61
11-21-2007, 05:02 PM
Well, as the voting continues and Roenicke and other relievers come up, I'm sure we can continue this debate because I think there is definite disagreement here. I think late inning relief is a make-or-break position and that the idea of relievers having limited value as prospects is, or should be, outdated. But you make some good points on the other side of the argument.

As for relievers being failed starters, maybe in some cases. But on the other hand many starters wouldn't be particularly good late inning relievers. A certain temperment, dominant stuff, and avoiding walks is key for a late inning reliever -- not all starters (and certainly not all failed starters) have these characteristics.

Blue
11-21-2007, 05:02 PM
Just don't get the love for Maloney.... unless he has his fastball in the 90s now, I don't get the love for him. A sinker ball guy who allows a ton more fly balls than ground balls just worries me.

Well, he struck out 62 guys in 45 innings after he was traded to the Reds, including 23 in 17 innings at AAA. His GO/AO ratio was .9 last season, and 1.1 the season before. Anyway, if he strikes peoople out, that number won't be so important. The only down side to the guy's numbers is the HR total, which went up a lot after he became Reds property.

His performance is good enough to be at least in the Top 10.

Roenicke is the one that I don't understand. Unless he's absolutely incredible, which I guess could be true, I don't think a reliever should be a top 10 prospect. I might have taken any number of guys ahead of him.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2007, 05:36 PM
BA says Maloney throws in the 87-91 mph range.

I'm glad BA gave Roenicke the respect he deserves by placing him in the top ten.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 05:45 PM
BA says Maloney throws in the 87-91 mph range.

I'm glad BA gave Roenicke the respect he deserves by placing him in the top ten.

If he is throwing in the 90s now, even the low 90s then I feel quite differently than before. Last year his scouting report had him topping out around 88 and thats just not good enough to cut it.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 05:48 PM
As for relievers being failed starters, maybe in some cases. But on the other hand many starters wouldn't be particularly good late inning relievers. A certain temperment, dominant stuff, and avoiding walks is key for a late inning reliever -- not all starters (and certainly not all failed starters) have these characteristics.

Surely, but pitchers with good fastballs and little else that were once starters can generally become very good relievers becuase out of the pen they can add 2-4 mph on their fastball because they don't have to hold anything back and mixing in a breaking ball every now and again works a lot better when you only see a guy a few times a year rather than a few times a game. Obviously taking someone like Kirk Saarloos isn't ideal, but there are tons of guys in every system with 92-94 MPH fastballs that have nothing else than have the potential to be good relievers one day who are not good starters.

BoydsOfSummer
11-21-2007, 05:55 PM
Interesting tidbit from Cueto's profile.


The Future: The Reds plan on acquiring a veteran starter this offseason, which would leave Cueto without a clear spot in the rotation. He could bide his time waiting for an opening by helping out the Cincinnati bullpen or getting more Triple-A seasoning.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 05:56 PM
Well, he struck out 62 guys in 45 innings after he was traded to the Reds, including 23 in 17 innings at AAA. His GO/AO ratio was .9 last season, and 1.1 the season before. Anyway, if he strikes peoople out, that number won't be so important. The only down side to the guy's numbers is the HR total, which went up a lot after he became Reds property.

I don't put much stock into ground out and air out ratio, becuase those are just balls turned into outs. This season he allowed 58% of the balls in play in the air.



His performance is good enough to be at least in the Top 10.

Roenicke is the one that I don't understand. Unless he's absolutely incredible, which I guess could be true, I don't think a reliever should be a top 10 prospect. I might have taken any number of guys ahead of him.

Well given his added velocity on his fastball I would rank Maloney quite a bit higher than I orginally had him.

Roenicke though has the potential to be a closer at the major league level.

BoydsOfSummer
11-21-2007, 06:03 PM
You have to have a subscription to do so, so I am not sure there are a ton of guys on here that could do that. I wish they had smaller subscriptions available to purchase.

They have a six month subscription. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/subscribe/404.html

edabbs44
11-21-2007, 06:05 PM
Looks like edabbs was trying to get to the bottom of this.

That question was actually fed to me from Doug. Good question, I bet Doug's gonna flag that now whenever someone (like me) scoffs at the toe thing.


He also gets a bit testy later:

Hell yeah. I pumped in about 10 questions before the chat was up and this guy Kyle was getting question after question answered. I totally didn't expect him to post it, I just wanted to get his attention.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 06:16 PM
They have a six month subscription. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/subscribe/404.html

Yeah.... $45 is a lot right now. If they had like a 3 month thing for like $25 I would be much more interested, but I plan on getting the prospect handbook so dropping $45 right now for information that I will be buying later in the year just to get it a little early doesn't seem to work for me right now. I think BA has stuff worth reading, but most of it comes between October and February and the stuff in between is usually information you can find elsewhere. Maybe I am just too tight with my money?

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 06:17 PM
That question was actually fed to me from Doug. Good question, I bet Doug's gonna flag that now whenever someone (like me) scoffs at the toe thing.


Nah, I knew it was causing some issues early in the season. If others don't want to take it as a reason for some struggles, thats fine.... I just disagree with it thats all.

BoydsOfSummer
11-21-2007, 06:18 PM
Q: BT from Florida asks:
How close was Kyle Lotzkar to making the list? What do you see as his future roll and where will he most likely play next year?
A:

J.J. Cooper: Lotzkar had a great debut and likely will be in the Top 10 next year. Leaving him off is just a matter of wanting to see a youngster in the GCL prove it over a longer stretch before rushing him into the Top 10. If this had been the list heading into the 2006 season he could have ranked as high as No. 3, but the system is much deeper now than it was then.

Yet Mesoraco is sixth?

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 06:26 PM
Yet Mesoraco is sixth?

Higher upside? I am willing to bet that Lotzkar was no lower than 12.

BoydsOfSummer
11-21-2007, 06:45 PM
Kyle from Middletown must be JJ Cooper's brother-in-law.:p:

Red Daddy
11-21-2007, 07:58 PM
I'm with Doug on Mesoraco. Scouts had him really high on their boards. The guy was hurt all year, very bad thumbs. I'm still surprised that Roenicke is a top 10 as a reliever. Why not Viola? He was untouchable.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2007, 08:49 PM
Good news from the chat is that Travis Wood had a good instructional league showing and his velocity is back to where it was before.

New Fever
11-21-2007, 08:52 PM
I think that's partly true, but I also think that BA is an industry insider that wants to maintain good relationships within the game. Blasting teams' 1st round choices would not accomplish that.


But BA also ranks these same "1st rounders" before they are drafted. Mostly all of the other prospect sites also rank 1st rounders pretty high on their Top 10 list as well.

tbball10
11-21-2007, 09:47 PM
I'm with Doug on Mesoraco. Scouts had him really high on their boards. The guy was hurt all year, very bad thumbs. I'm still surprised that Roenicke is a top 10 as a reliever. Why not Viola? He was untouchable.

not that BA looks at the AFL, but viola got drilled in that league... does anyone know what kind of stuff he has or how hard he throws? i cant find anything on him.

edabbs44
11-21-2007, 10:10 PM
I'm with Doug on Mesoraco. Scouts had him really high on their boards. The guy was hurt all year, very bad thumbs.

From what I remember, he flew up the draft boards late. I think it had to do with his talent and his signability. No doubt he was highly rated, but I believe he gave the impression that he would be a quick sign which helped his case a bit.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 10:12 PM
From what I remember, he flew up the draft boards late. I think it had to do with his talent and his signability. No doubt he was highly rated, but I believe he gave the impression that he would be a quick sign which helped his case a bit.

Most players were a quick sign with the new August 15th deadline these days. I think he shot up draft boards because he continued to prove he was healthy from TJ surgery.

edabbs44
11-21-2007, 10:30 PM
Most players were a quick sign with the new August 15th deadline these days. I think he shot up draft boards because he continued to prove he was healthy from TJ surgery.

This was from BA's last draft tracker. As always, take it for what it's worth.


14. Devin Mesoraco, c, Punxsutawney (Pa.) HS (16)
The more players who slide out of the top 10 picks based on signability, the better for Mesoraco, who has asserted himself as a first rounder who was expected to sign quickly for slot money anywhere in the first 30 picks. He could be taken as high as No. 4 to Pittsburgh. One of most attractive assets is the balance of his game.

dougdirt
11-21-2007, 10:32 PM
This was from BA's last draft tracker. As always, take it for what it's worth.

True, but I don't know if a guy that could go as high as 4th overall is really a 'signability pick' when he is taken at 15th overall.

edabbs44
11-21-2007, 10:52 PM
True, but I don't know if a guy that could go as high as 4th overall is really a 'signability pick' when he is taken at 15th overall.

When it's the Pirates taking him at 4, anything is possible. :)

I don't think him going at 4 had much to do about his ability.

*BaseClogger*
11-22-2007, 06:02 PM
I don't care how hard a guy throws, I just care how many outs he can get... However, I do understand that you can't rely of fly ball outs if you are gonna pitch in GABP, but I could care less how hard Maloney throws...

Betterread
11-22-2007, 07:41 PM
Interesting to see BA's top 10 -I don't see that much difference between Neftali Soto, Watson, Valaika, Lotzkar, Dorn, Turner and the prospects from 6-10. That indicates some decent depth in the system. There are some big differences in opinion on this board on prospects which shows that there are a pretty good number of prospects that impress at least a few people.

AdamDunn
11-27-2007, 07:20 PM
Good news from the chat is that Travis Wood had a good instructional league showing and his velocity is back to where it was before.

Excellent. I'm telling you, Travis Wood is a much better prospect than Maloney.

GoReds33
11-27-2007, 07:33 PM
Excellent. I'm telling you, Travis Wood is a much better prospect than Maloney.I don't know about much better, but defenitly better. This guy put up great numbers off the starting line. I think he'll get all those numbers back soon.

Mario-Rijo
12-01-2007, 05:45 AM
Excellent. I'm telling you, Travis Wood is a much better prospect than Maloney.

He certainly could be. But just as a reminder here's what BA had to say about Maloney when the deal was made.



A polished college lefty, the Phillies took Maloney from Mississippi in the third round of the 2005 draft. He made just eight starts at short-season Batavia before moving to low Class A Lakewood a year later, where he became the anchor of the Blue Claws’ staff. Though he’s 6-foot-4 and 220 pounds, Maloney is more of a finesse lefthander compared to fellow Phillies farmhand Josh Outman. His 86-90 mph sinker is his best pitch because of its late, downward tumble in the zone. Maloney also throws an above-average changeup, curveball and slider. Maloney, 23, won South Atlantic League pitcher of the year honors in 2006 after going 16-9, 2.03, and he led the circuit in wins, innings (169) and strikeouts (180) while finishing second in ERA. He was 9-7, 3.94 with a 115-45 strikeout-walk ratio in 125 innings for Double-A Reading

The guy's got 4 above avg pitches, I think he's got a pretty good shot. I know I read this when it went down, but for the life me I don't recall reading that part of it.