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Jay Bruce
11-22-2007, 04:28 AM
From Rotoworld:


According to the Los Angeles Times, the Angels have signed Torii Hunter to a five-year contract worth $80 million.

The Rangers and White Sox appeared to be the front-runners for Hunter and the Angels seemed set at the position with Gary Matthews Jr. and Reggie Willits, but instead hand out a big contract to a free-agent center fielder for the second straight offseason. Hunter's agent said Wednesday that "it all happened within the last 24 hours" and the signing comes after Hunter said earlier this week that he wouldn't make a decision until after Thanksgiving. A seven-time Gold Glover who batted .287 with 28 homers and 107 RBI in 2007, Hunter could see plenty of RBI chances if he's asked to hit behind Vladimir Guerrero. The signing figures to push Matthews to a corner spot, with either Guerrero or Garret Anderson sliding to designated hitter and Willits going to the bench, but the Angels could look to trade some of their outfield depth for a shortstop.

That's 16 million a year for a centerfielder already declining defensively, and who has never had an OBP above .337. Better them than us.

Orenda
11-22-2007, 08:55 AM
From Rotoworld:



That's 16 million a year for a centerfielder already declining defensively, and who has never had an OBP above .337. Better them than us.

Somewhere I think an Angels fan is laughing at you

Degenerate39
11-22-2007, 10:37 AM
I wonder who will play Center Torii or Gary Matthews Jr.

Will M
11-22-2007, 12:53 PM
Tori Hunter is OBP challenged but overall a very good player.
He can man CF for a few more years then switch to a corner ( he has enough power to be a good corner OF ).

$90M for 5 years. Wow! This is why a small market team like the Reds needs to keep Hamilton, Bruce, Votto, etc. They are cheap and productive. The Reds have money to pay a few big salaries but not as much money as the big teams do.

AmarilloRed
11-22-2007, 01:45 PM
One further note; the Twins get the Angels 27th overall draft pick next June as a part of this signing.

*BaseClogger*
11-22-2007, 01:59 PM
This could drive up asking price by Dunn in extension negotiations...

757690
11-22-2007, 05:27 PM
From Rotoworld:



That's 16 million a year for a centerfielder already declining defensively, and who has never had an OBP above .337. Better them than us.

Further proof that OBP is over-rated. Obviously it is better to be on base more often than not, but the name of the game is run production.
A team needs guys who get on base, and guys like Hunter who drive them in. Tony Perez had a lifetime .341 OBP. Would you say he was not a valuable player for the Reds?
Also, the Angels have plenty of high OBP guys and desperately needed a RBI guy like Hunter.


Still I agree that Hunter is most llkely to decline during this contract. I also think that this was insurance in case Matthews gets suspended or worse for his HGH shipments.

Stephenk29
11-22-2007, 06:01 PM
ESPN said Hunter would likely play CF over Mathews. Talk about a great problem to have, two gold glove caliber Centerfielders. If there OF is Mathews, Hunter, Gurrero...holy cow what a defense.

*BaseClogger*
11-22-2007, 06:17 PM
Further proof that OBP is over-rated. Obviously it is better to be on base more often than not, but the name of the game is run production.
A team needs guys who get on base, and guys like Hunter who drive them in. Tony Perez had a lifetime .341 OBP. Would you say he was not a valuable player for the Reds?
Also, the Angels have plenty of high OBP guys and desperately needed a RBI guy like Hunter.


Still I agree that Hunter is most llkely to decline during this contract. I also think that this was insurance in case Matthews gets suspended or worse for his HGH shipments.

yeah, but if you're not getting on base your getting out. if Hunter gets on base, eventually a runner will have to cross the plate...

Bip Roberts
11-22-2007, 09:20 PM
angels wouldnt go after Arod yet they signed Hunter to a 90 million dollar contract when they already have 3 decent OFer. Sick job there Angels

*BaseClogger*
11-22-2007, 11:18 PM
angels wouldnt go after Arod yet they signed Hunter to a 90 million dollar contract when they already have 3 decent OFer. Sick job there Angels

yeah, remember this is the team that gave GMJR a huge contract last offseason...

captainmorgan07
11-22-2007, 11:30 PM
my guess is they trade somebody they have a crowded outfield with vlad, matthews jr., hunter, rivera, willits, and garret anderson.

Degenerate39
11-22-2007, 11:32 PM
my guess is they trade somebody they have a crowded outfield with vlad, matthews jr., hunter, rivera, willits, and garret anderson.

I heard on XM Radio that they're going to put Matthews Jr. in Left Field, Hunter in Center, Vlad in Right, and Anderson at DH.

757690
11-23-2007, 12:53 AM
yeah, but if you're not getting on base your getting out. if Hunter gets on base, eventually a runner will have to cross the plate...

Not really sure what you mean. There are plenty of ways for Hunter to get on base without a runner eventually scoring. Happens all the time. Maybe I am not understanding what you mean.

Also, if Hunter has 100 plate appearances with runners in scoring position, wouldn't you rather he gets 25 hits in those situations, instead of 35 walks?

reds2221
11-23-2007, 01:17 AM
Not really sure what you mean. There are plenty of ways for Hunter to get on base without a runner eventually scoring. Happens all the time. Maybe I am not understanding what you mean.

Also, if Hunter has 100 plate appearances with runners in scoring position, wouldn't you rather he gets 25 hits in those situations, instead of 35 walks?

sometimes you may want that, but you also have to remember that just because its a walk doesn't mean that there's not a chance of anyone scoring on the play. And also, if the runner is on second, there is a chance that he will NOT score a run on the play.

757690
11-23-2007, 01:50 AM
sometimes you may want that, but you also have to remember that just because its a walk doesn't mean that there's not a chance of anyone scoring on the play. And also, if the runner is on second, there is a chance that he will NOT score a run on the play.

Yes, that is true. Still, over the course of a season, I would rather have the 25 hits than the 35 walks.

If a run scores after a walk, that same run would score after a hit, so those 35 walks will not score any more runs than the 25 hits, and most likely they will score many less.
And while a run may not score every time on a hit, it will score zero times on a walk. Hits in that situation are always better than walks.

One other factor, the walk puts a hitter who is lower in the batting order (and most likely, not as good) in that situation. Why do you think good hitters are intentionally walked? I have never heard of an intentional hit.

*BaseClogger*
11-23-2007, 09:40 AM
IF the 25 hits are all singles, give me the 35 walks... its not like the guy after him is hitting .000 is it?

AmarilloRed
11-23-2007, 09:48 AM
The deal was actually 5 years, 90 million dollars.

Jay Bruce
11-23-2007, 02:17 PM
The deal was actually 5 years, 90 million dollars.

18 million a year, even better! He would only be worth this monet if he was an elite fielding CF for the entire length of the contract. Since he already has his range declining, he will likely become a corner outfielder in a couple years, where his bat will become below average. This may help the team win in the very short term, but will look very bad in a couple of years.

757690
11-23-2007, 03:20 PM
IF the 25 hits are all singles, give me the 35 walks... its not like the guy after him is hitting .000 is it?

Let's just say that the guy after the walked batter is hitting .333 (which is very high) in all 35 walks.
That means that the runner on second will score 11 times.

If the hitter gets 25 singles, and the runner on second only scores 3 out of 5 times, (which I think is low), then the runner will score 15 times. And remember, that .333 hitter is still behind the same hitter, so that means the runner from second will score 3 more times, making it a grand total of 18 runs that will score in those 100 at bats.

Do you still want those 35 walks? You would rather have your team score 11 times than 18 times?
Hits are always better than walks with runners in scoring position.

Bip Roberts
11-23-2007, 03:22 PM
Ive tried to make this argument before. People just refuse to want to listen.

nyjwagner
11-23-2007, 09:34 PM
Though Torii will play Center most of the time, the deal allows Gary Mattews Jr. to rotate with Garrett Anderson and Vladdy and the DH position..which keeps all the bats in the line-up and rested and makes room for injuries. This coupled with the Garland trade which gives the Angels 6 starting arms makes the Angels a favorite for the post-season next year.

*BaseClogger*
11-23-2007, 09:44 PM
Let's just say that the guy after the walked batter is hitting .333 (which is very high) in all 35 walks.
That means that the runner on second will score 11 times.

If the hitter gets 25 singles, and the runner on second only scores 3 out of 5 times, (which I think is low), then the runner will score 15 times. And remember, that .333 hitter is still behind the same hitter, so that means the runner from second will score 3 more times, making it a grand total of 18 runs that will score in those 100 at bats.

Do you still want those 35 walks? You would rather have your team score 11 times than 18 times?
Hits are always better than walks with runners in scoring position.

I don't know if I quite follow what you are saying, but I do know that we know have the opportunity to score an additional run if Hunter is on base...

757690
11-23-2007, 10:21 PM
Okay, let me explain it this way.
In those 100 AB's, with 35 walks instead of 25 hits, you get 10 extra chances to drive in a run after that AB. Even with a .300 hitter following, you will get 3 extra runs.
But with the 25 hits instead of 35 walks, in those 25 AB's with a hit, you will score at least 15 more runs (assuming the runner scores 3 out of 5 times with a hit and 0 times with a walk).
You get more runs in those 100 AB's, if the batter gets 25 hits than you do if the batter walks 35 times. The only time that wouldn't be the case, is if the runner from second only scores 12% of the time on a hit, which would only happen if David Ortiz with a broken leg was on second every time.

*BaseClogger*
11-23-2007, 10:31 PM
Okay, let me explain it this way.
In those 100 AB's, with 35 walks instead of 25 hits, you get 10 extra chances to drive in a run after that AB. Even with a .300 hitter following, you will get 3 extra runs.
But with the 25 hits instead of 35 walks, in those 25 AB's with a hit, you will score at least 15 more runs (assuming the runner scores 3 out of 5 times with a hit and 0 times with a walk).
You get more runs in those 100 AB's, if the batter gets 25 hits than you do if the batter walks 35 times. The only time that wouldn't be the case, is if the runner from second only scores 12% of the time on a hit, which would only happen if David Ortiz with a broken leg was on second every time.

how many outs are there?

757690
11-23-2007, 10:53 PM
Sorry, Bip Roberts was right.

Some people just don't get it, and never will.

I give up. Have a great Thanksgiving weekend!

*BaseClogger*
11-23-2007, 11:05 PM
Sorry, Bip Roberts was right.

Some people just don't get it, and never will.

I give up. Have a great Thanksgiving weekend!

Victory! :p: