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View Full Version : It was cheaper to groom Burton



redsupport
11-24-2007, 04:40 PM
to be the closer, thats what the reds used to do, find eastwick, hume, shaw, groom their own closer

OldRed1966
11-24-2007, 04:41 PM
Some fans are never happy. The Reds tried to groom Coffey. How did that one work out?

*BaseClogger*
11-24-2007, 04:45 PM
now we are grooming him to be our ace releiver, which is actually a better allocation of resources...

Degenerate39
11-24-2007, 04:57 PM
I'd like to see Burton as a closer one day but I'm happy with Cordero as the closer for now.

captainmorgan07
11-24-2007, 05:01 PM
yes it would of been cheaper but how long would it have taken. Baker wants a win now mentality that's why they went out and got a proven veteran closer. Burton will be a great reliever for us i see him more in the set up role anyway.

redsupport
11-24-2007, 05:02 PM
coffey was always garbage check out his hits per innings coffey at his best is one fifth the pitcher of burton

OldRed1966
11-24-2007, 05:19 PM
coffey was always garbage check out his hits per innings coffey at his best is one fifth the pitcher of burton

I think it was fairly obvious to everyone that in 2006 the Reds were grooming Coffey to be the Reds closer of the future.

Dracodave
11-24-2007, 05:43 PM
I think it was fairly obvious to everyone that in 2006 the Reds were grooming Coffey to be the Reds closer of the future.


It was, then when he folded under pressure and continued to do so, plan B was needed. Plan B(urton) as it turned out was going to be closer, but he had serious controll issues at first and I really believe he WILL be closer (Once again, two pitch overwhelming closer type) which is why Cordero was brought in. You dont need to rely on Burton till need be. Put Burton in situation where he gains confidence in his pitches and keep going from there.

GoReds33
11-24-2007, 05:48 PM
I like Burton in any situation. I would rather have him in the seventh though, because that would be a testament to how good this bullpen has become.

HBP
11-24-2007, 05:53 PM
It also would be cheaper to trade Dunn, Griffey, Harang, Arroyo, etc. In turn, the Reds would be a much worse team. This is the first time since the Griffey trade that the owner of Reds has showed they actually want to put a competitive team out there. If you don't love that, you can't be pleased.

mlbfan30
11-24-2007, 06:04 PM
Use the Indians model, where you pitch the best pitchers in the 6th, 7th, 8th in the most high leverage situations. Burton can be one of those guys that's used to get our SP out of trouble, or pitch against the 2/3/4 spots against the other team. This spot in relied might be more important than the closer. A good closer like Cordero, and Burton & Weathers combined just makes it more of a 7 inning game.

Bip Roberts
11-24-2007, 06:19 PM
this guy makes the worst threads on this board.

AmarilloRed
11-24-2007, 06:48 PM
Jared Burton had an outstanding year last year as a set-up man, and we should continue keeping him in that role for now. The future will take care of itself.

thatcoolguy_22
11-24-2007, 06:58 PM
this guy makes the worst threads on this board.

please save it for the pm circuit big guy...


The idea of grooming our own closer is always better in theory but, since danny graves' collapse it hasn't exactly worked out in our favor... I approve of the Cordero signing even though it may be expensive. It really establishes the Reds' window for success. 3 more years with Arroyo/Harang and 4 with Cordero. 6 years of all of the young guys and I'm not sure how many years of Arbitration BP has left. All we have to do is resign AD to a LTC and our "core" players will be set for quite some time...

Redsnake
11-24-2007, 07:10 PM
Wasn't Burton only good for half the season? After the all-star break? Lets give Burton a little more time.

I like Burton, but I would rather have someone that has been a proven closer.

Bip Roberts
11-24-2007, 07:57 PM
please save it for the pm circuit big guy...


The idea of grooming our own closer is always better in theory but, since danny graves' collapse it hasn't exactly worked out in our favor... I approve of the Cordero signing even though it may be expensive. It really establishes the Reds' window for success. 3 more years with Arroyo/Harang and 4 with Cordero. 6 years of all of the young guys and I'm not sure how many years of Arbitration BP has left. All we have to do is resign AD to a LTC and our "core" players will be set for quite some time...

Its true though, he post threads never replies and ignores other threads where he should post information like this.

mroby85
11-25-2007, 01:41 AM
If you aren't happy with this signing, you simply aren't going to be happy. They spent some money, and filled their biggest need with the best player at that position on the market.

fadetoblack2880
11-25-2007, 09:25 AM
This team has been grooming players for the past seven seasons. I think the Cordero signing was a good one. Nothing against Burton, but we all saw how he struggled at first last year, so why not spend a little money. I, for one, am happy to see the Reds spending money. It's not our responsibilty to worry about their payroll anyway. Let them spend as much as possible and try to be a year in and year out contender. It won't take much in this division anyway.

Betterread
11-25-2007, 11:52 AM
I think Burton has a good arm and some potential. But I don't see him as a closer option at this point. I'd like to see at least a year-long set of good performances as a set up man (which is a very important role) before considering him as a potential closer.

HokieRed
11-25-2007, 12:14 PM
I'm not sure the plan, if there was one, was ever to groom Coffey as a closer. His stuff is just not anywhere near good enough to close. The question now about Coffey is whether he even sticks as a major league 5th or 6th reliever, and I doubt he will figure in the Reds' plans beyond this year. I like the Cordero move a lot, and if we don't like the price, then we should not play in the free agent market at all. He's coming off a career year, has a fantastic K to BB ratio, and has had a solid career. If you want a guy of this caliber, you have to pay the market price. There are three reasons to really like the move: 1. All subtleties aside, the worst area of the team last year was the bullpen, which was not competitive in any sense; 2. Burton, even if he is a closer someday, is nowhere near ready for that. Personally I think he will be a solid set-up guy; I doubt whether he has the control and/or breaking stuff to be a closer. 3. Acquiring Cordero puts the other relievers in roles they are more likely going to be able to handle and allows the younger pitchers to develop--Bray, Coutlangus, Salmon, Coffey (maybe), and then--much more promisingly--Roenicke, Pelland, Viola, maybe Gardner, if they move him. The bullpen gets two big boosts--one from Cordero himself, the other from the way he reconfigures the roles of everybody in the group. And given the fact there's almost nothing available in the starting pitching market, it's hard to see what better move the Reds could have made.

roby
11-25-2007, 02:29 PM
Wasn't Burton only good for half the season? After the all-star break? Lets give Burton a little more time.

I like Burton, but I would rather have someone that has been a proven closer.

I agree. This Reds signing of Cordero is great and has no downside. It seems to make sense to me that they would not have put that much money into Cordero if they weren't also going to spend whatever it takes to fix the other problems on the team. There is just nothing to complain about here.

dsmith421
11-25-2007, 07:25 PM
to be the closer, thats what the reds used to do, find eastwick, hume, shaw, groom their own closer

they just signed the best pitcher on the market. what, precisely, do you want?

furthermore: is it your money?

Orenda
11-25-2007, 07:48 PM
they just signed the best pitcher on the market. what, precisely, do you want?

furthermore: is it your money?

It is my money. Why would I pay to see a team that can't win consistently because of pitching/bullpen problems? This was a big move by the FO, as HokieRed already pointed out this move gives the reds a good closer, but it also allows all the other relievers to fill into their more natural roles. I like it and i expect to see a significant improvement out of the pen. I'm looking forward to gettng downtown and spending some cash come summer. Thats how it works.

Doro
11-26-2007, 12:35 PM
we have been trying to groom a closer since Graves had his melt down. Its not easy. Sure Burton has the makeup to be a closer but that doesnt mean he'll pan out. I mean Coffey looked as if he was on his way to filling that role at one time. The only for sure thing is to get a proven guy. Although probably overpaid, Cordero is proven.

I(heart)Freel
11-26-2007, 02:49 PM
There's also nothing wrong with thinking, within the all important 4 year plan, that if Burton becomes dominant, you could punt off Cordero in a mid season trade for something you need.

But, as others have stated, let's see Burton do it for a couple seasons before we crown him king.

At worst, we have ourselves a Lidge/Wagner type situation, where if the Reds lead after 7 innings, the game is essentially over. Lord, that would be great.

durl
11-26-2007, 06:24 PM
I'm perfectly fine with Burton being the set-up guy in the 8th. If it's working for him (and it worked quite well last year) keep him there.

I'm trying to recall when Burton was moved to the 8th inning spot. That's where he really showed he could be a go-to guy for the Reds. It may appear that he didn't do well early on but he only pitched 8 innings before the All-Star Break, giving up 5 earned runs. (The damage was done when he gave up 2 runs to the Pirates on 5/26 and 2 runs to the Astros on 5/31.)

Burton made an appearance on April 4th, but not again until May 12th.

He went 6 1/3 innings (8 appearances) before he gave up an earned run. He gave up 4 earned runs in 2 of his last 3 appearances in May.

He pitched in one appearance in June, giving up an earned run. He didn't pitch again until July 12th. After that July 12th appearance, he gave up 7 earned runs in 24 1/3 innings. His July ERA was 3.00, August ERA was 1.17, and September's was 1.80.

While Burton really turned it up a notch in the last 3 months of the year, he still had pretty good numbers early on. He was able to turn things around after 2 bad outtings in May that sent his ERA sky-high.

One interesting thing to note (if my eyes are reading the stats correctly) is that while Burton did not give up many runs, the only days he did allow them came when he had several days rest. If he pitched back-to-back days, no runs allowed. Interesting.