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AmarilloRed
11-24-2007, 07:17 PM
I believe the Cordero signing has totally revamped the Reds bullpen. Cordero will be the new closer, and Jared Burton and David Weathers will be set-up men and concentrate on the 8th inning.Marcus McBeth, Bill Bray, Jon Coutlangas, and Brad Salmon should have the inside track to also make the roster and pitch in the 6th and 7th innings. I believe the signing will hurt the prospects of Todd Coffey,Gary Majewski, and Mike Stanton the most. All 3 had bad years last year, and without a good spring training could find themselves looking for work before the season starts.

Blue
11-24-2007, 07:32 PM
I think Pelland and Roenicke might make the team out of Spring Training. That would add two more power arms to the pen. I still think they'll add another arm or two to the pen via trade or free agency. I like it. Having a strong pen from top to bottom makes it easier for them to have Bailey and Cueto and/or Maloney in the rotation at the same time.

fadetoblack2880
11-24-2007, 07:55 PM
The good thing about having Cordero as the closer is that it defines the roles of the other players. When the Reds acquired Guardado a couple years ago, the bullpen was vastily improved.

Vada Pinson Fan
11-24-2007, 08:04 PM
AmarilloRed- The bullpen does look much better! However it should be noted of the great importance for lefthanders Bill Bray and Jon Coutlangus to pitch up to their potential. Bray has to stay healthy in '08 and Coutlangus will hopefully improve on his very good 2007 stats.

I hope Stanton, Majewski and Coffey are no longer Cincinnati Reds in 2008. Those 3 relief pitchers had to be suffering from whiplash!

Bip Roberts
11-24-2007, 08:06 PM
Stanton Majewski and Coffey are all going to get less innings this year now so them sucking might not be so noticeable.

mroby85
11-24-2007, 08:46 PM
I would love to see kerry wood signed to a deal now, although, i think they're good enough to make a run at the division as it is.

I(heart)Freel
11-24-2007, 08:49 PM
Stanton Majewski and Coffey are all going to get less innings this year now so them sucking might not be so noticeable.

True dat.

Would Stanton make a good LOOGY? Seems to make sense. In my ten step plan for the off-season, I advocated for dumping him and eating the contract, especially since he's halfway to the magic number of innings for which his 2009 option kicks in.

But if he came in for one hitter or two a game, maybe he'd be more effective and still not hamstring us with a crummy 2009 contract.

SMcGavin
11-24-2007, 08:58 PM
The new Reds bullpen has four guys I trust - Cordero, Weathers, Burton, and Bray. That's a good start, and I wouldn't be shocked to see the emergence of a guy like Salmon or McBeth as a reliable option. With the ripple effect down the bullpen, think of Cordero as replacing the roughly 70 diasterous innings of Coffey/Majewski/Cormier from last season. I really think we are one SP away from being a playoff caliber team.

Bip Roberts
11-24-2007, 08:59 PM
True dat.

Would Stanton make a good LOOGY? Seems to make sense. In my ten step plan for the off-season, I advocated for dumping him and eating the contract, especially since he's halfway to the magic number of innings for which his 2009 option kicks in.

But if he came in for one hitter or two a game, maybe he'd be more effective and still not hamstring us with a crummy 2009 contract.

It would be nice if he was even remotely decent against lefties



G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
vs. Left 69 0 0 0 0 0 0 23.2 30 - - 2 1 21 - 1.31 .306
vs. Right 65 0 0 0 0 0 0 34.0 45 - - 4 17 19 - 1.82 .321

I(heart)Freel
11-24-2007, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the splits. I can't believe MS only gave up 6 dingers on the year. I felt like I personally witnessed about 10.

Not to make this a Stanton thread, but I looked up his splits too and was aghast to see this:


W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO INN H R ER HR HBP BB IBB SO SB CS PK BK WP AVG
Home 1 1 3.67 38 0 0 0 0 2 34.1 37 15 14 1 3 7 1 27 1 0 0 0 0 .270
Away 0 2 9.26 31 0 0 0 0 1 23.1 38 24 24 5 2 11 1 13 3 1 1 0 1 .376


Who woulda thunk it?

DannyB
11-24-2007, 09:42 PM
I hear the Brewers are looking for some veteran bullpen help

AmarilloRed
11-24-2007, 10:37 PM
It just goes to show we have a lot of bullpen pitchers on the current roster, and not enough starting pitchers. I expect improvement from Salmon, McBeth, and Coutlangas, and also believe Bray might do better when he is healthy. There will be a lot of interest in Kerry Wood, so we might not be able to land him. There has been some speculation that the team that offered him 3 years would get him. Stanton will be there because of his contract, but I expect him to get less innings. Majewski and Coffey could be released if they don't show much improvement from last year. We also could get the likes of Roenicke or Pelland make the roster out of spring training.

hippie07
11-24-2007, 10:50 PM
You know, I'm not really sold on whether or not Wood is what our bullpen needs (kinda rather spend the money on a stop-gap starter, but I suppose both would be nice).. I don't know how I feel about all the talk of "alotta teams are going to be after him" .... I think alotta teams had interest in Cordero too and we only had to beat the home team by 1mil per year to land him....Wayne also snagged AGon right outta the gate too... gotta give WK credit.. he seems pretty good at contract negotiating ... I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and say that if WK thinks Wood is who we need, then... he'll find a way to get him.

*BaseClogger*
11-24-2007, 11:13 PM
If the season started today, what 7 guys would make up your bullpen?

For me:
CL- Cordero
SU #1- Weathers
SU #2- Burton
MR #1- Bray
LOOGY #1- Coutlangus
LOOGY #2- Stanton
LR #1- Majewski

I give McBeth and Salmon first cracks at any openings...

AmarilloRed
11-24-2007, 11:22 PM
There might be more than 7 , but here goes:

CL- Cordero

SU- David Weathers

SU- Jared Burton

The rest: Jon Coutlangas
Bill Bray
Brad Salmon
Marcus McBeth

Others who could make it: Todd Coffey
Mike Stanton

I give McBeth, Salmon, and Coutlangas the jobs over others unless they lose it in spring training. All 3 proved themselves last year, and should be given automatic roster spots. With luck both Majewski and Stanton will be cut before the start of spring training. I am giving Stanton a chance, but not much of one.

757690
11-24-2007, 11:56 PM
Concerning Majewski, I believe he still at least one more option left, so there is no need to cut him. (I have no idea when he was first put on a major league roster, but assuming he was put on the first year he was eligible for the rule 5 draft, he has at least one left.) If he is still having problems, he can be sent to the minors to work it out.
Considering he is a 27 year old who throws in the mid 90's, there is no need for the Reds to get rid of him if they don't have to.

*BaseClogger*
11-25-2007, 12:07 AM
I don't think Krivsky is gonna cut Stanton before the season starts... maybe if he REALLY sucks like Cormier last year...

GoReds33
11-25-2007, 12:16 AM
The good thing about having Cordero as the closer is that it defines the roles of the other players. When the Reds acquired Guardado a couple years ago, the bullpen was vastily improved.That was my feeling exactly. The bullpen was awesome for the couple of weeks Guardado was here and healthy. Hopefully his signing will completly transform this bullpen.:)

jnwohio
11-25-2007, 01:36 AM
I'd like to see Guardado signed to a mnor league deal and brought in to spring training. If he could pitch well enough to make the team, it would give them a battle proven left handed set up man to go with Stormy and Burton in the set up corps.

AmarilloRed
11-25-2007, 01:38 AM
We simply have too many pitchers in the bullpen. Stanton, Majewski and Coffey are prime candidates to be traded/released/sent down to AAA with the emergence of more talented bullpen pitchers. Burton, Bray, McBeth, Salmon, and Coutlangas are all better and could contribute more for a cheaper price. I give those three a chance in spring training, but they need to prove a lot when spring training comes around.

tbball10
11-25-2007, 01:54 AM
We simply have too many pitchers in the bullpen. Stanton, Majewski and Coffey are prime candidates to be traded/released/sent down to AAA with the emergence of more talented bullpen pitchers. Burton, Bray, McBeth, Salmon, and Coutlangas are all better and could contribute more for a cheaper price. I give those three a chance in spring training, but they need to prove a lot when spring training comes around.

I agree. Spring Training is going to decide a lot of pitching spots (and maybe some trades). I'd say the only locks for pitchers are:
Starters:
1) Harang
2) Bronson
3) Homer
4) ??
5) ??
Bullpen:
1) Cordero AKA "Lights Out"
2) Stormy
3) Burton
4) Coutlangus
5) Bray
6) ??
7) ??

I hope Bray is a lock, because we need another lefty, and let's hope it isn't Stanton.

Hopefully a trade or two will take place between now and ST, to sort out the rotation and the 'pen... and the OF too.

AmarilloRed
11-25-2007, 09:47 AM
None of them is a lock, but I think Coutlangas, Salmon, and McBeth have good shots to make the roster.

Bip Roberts
11-25-2007, 11:12 AM
I agree. Spring Training is going to decide a lot of pitching spots (and maybe some trades). I'd say the only locks for pitchers are:
Starters:
1) Harang
2) Bronson
3) Homer
4) ??
5) ??
Bullpen:
1) Cordero AKA "Lights Out"
2) Stormy
3) Burton
4) Coutlangus
5) Bray
6) ??
7) ??

I hope Bray is a lock, because we need another lefty, and let's hope it isn't Stanton.

Hopefully a trade or two will take place between now and ST, to sort out the rotation and the 'pen... and the OF too.

your bullpen has 3 lefties in it

HokieRed
11-25-2007, 12:18 PM
I'm hoping the bullpen by July 15 looks more like this: Cordero, Weathers, Burton, Belisle, Pelland, McBeth, and Roenicke. I think there's a good chance that will happen, though it might be necessary to have one more lefty in the mix.

*BaseClogger*
11-25-2007, 02:01 PM
I'm hoping the bullpen by July 15 looks more like this: Cordero, Weathers, Burton, Belisle, Pelland, McBeth, and Roenicke. I think there's a good chance that will happen, though it might be necessary to have one more lefty in the mix.

No Bray or Coutlangus? I think some of you are a little too high on McBeth...

tbball10
11-25-2007, 03:26 PM
your bullpen has 3 lefties in it

coutlangus and bray are the only lefties, so unless weathers or burton plan on switching in the offseason, thats only 2.

757690
11-25-2007, 04:26 PM
Hate to disappoint everyone, but barring injuries, this will be the Reds bullpen on Opening Day.

Cordero
Burton
Weathers
Bray
Majewski
Stanton
Coutlangus

Bip Roberts
11-25-2007, 05:09 PM
coutlangus and bray are the only lefties, so unless weathers or burton plan on switching in the offseason, thats only 2.

i misread stormy as stanton

VI_RedsFan
11-25-2007, 05:49 PM
Hate to disappoint everyone, but barring injuries, this will be the Reds bullpen on Opening Day.

Cordero
Burton
Weathers
Bray
Majewski
Stanton
Coutlangus

That sounds about right. I just don't see the Reds spending any more money in free agency on relievers. I would love to see us bring in Kerry Wood, but I don't see it happening after we threw $46 million at Cordero. That bullpen leaves us with capable guys like Roenicke, Macbeth, Pelland and Stanton waiting in the minors for Majewski and Stanton to falter. I wouldn't mind that Opening Day bullpen one bit.

AmarilloRed
11-25-2007, 06:47 PM
Salmon earned a spot in the Reds bullpen with his excellent pitching performance last year

GoReds33
11-25-2007, 06:50 PM
Salmon earned a spot in the Reds bullpen with his excellent pitching performance last yearI think he earned a solid chance. My belief is that nobody, except maybe Cordero, should be given an automatic spot. If he shows that he is the same pitcher he was late last year, I agree that he should be in the bullpen, so long as he earns it.

AmarilloRed
11-25-2007, 07:32 PM
Salmon, McBeth, and Coutlangas all did well in limited action in the majors last year over the likes of Coffey or Majewski. I think all three have to play themselves out of a roster spot in spring training. That being said, there will be a lot of competition in spring training to see who makes the roster, and I expect there will be a lot of change on the roster between now and then.

*BaseClogger*
11-25-2007, 11:55 PM
Salmon, McBeth, and Coutlangas all did well in limited action in the majors last year over the likes of Coffey or Majewski. I think all three have to play themselves out of a roster spot in spring training. That being said, there will be a lot of competition in spring training to see who makes the roster, and I expect there will be a lot of change on the roster between now and then.

McBeth's 2007 ERA= 5.95

AmarilloRed
11-26-2007, 12:06 AM
McBeth's 2007 ERA= 5.95

ERAs are quite invalid when you consider the limited action each player had. They did show quite enough last year to be considered for a roster spot

*BaseClogger*
11-26-2007, 12:14 AM
ERAs are quite invalid when you consider the limited action each player had. They did show quite enough last year to be considered for a roster spot

There is a difference between considered for a spot and having to lose it in Spring Training...

AmarilloRed
11-26-2007, 12:48 AM
I think the Cordero signing will help all 3. There are all young, and can be expected to have a better shot at making the roster with the year of experience they just had. If Wayne is serious about improving the bullpen, he needs to see if a trade of Stanton can be done. Cofffey has some promise, and has a chance to have a considerable comeback next year. There is still some hope for Bill Bray, because he really does have good stuff, and I think he just got tired at the end.I am not sure what will happen with Gary Majewski. He has a good fastball; he just cannot seem to get hiiters out with his lack of an out pitch. AAA is loaded with good relievers, but Salmon, Coutlangas, and Mcbeth would seem more likely to make the roster with their year of experience. It may very well turn out that you are right and that they may not start in Cincinnati, but I really think those 3 will really help the team if they can get a handle on their control.

*BaseClogger*
11-26-2007, 12:56 AM
I think the Cordero signing will help all 3. There are all young, and can be expected to have a better shot at making the roster with the year of experience they just had. If Wayne is serious about improving the bullpen, he needs to see if a trade of Stanton can be done. Cofffey has some promise, and has a chance to have a considerable comeback next year. There is still some hope for Bill Bray, because he really does have good stuff, and I think he just got tired at the end.I am not sure what will happen with Gary Majewski. He has a good fastball; he just cannot seem to get hiiters out with his lack of an out pitch. AAA is loaded with good relievers, but Salmon, Coutlangas, and Mcbeth would seem more likely to make the roster with their year of experience. It may very well turn out that you are right and that they may not start in Cincinnati, but I really think those 3 will really help the team if they can get a handle on their control.

I agree that they should and deserve a spot in the bullpen, its just we have so many mediocre arms...

StrikeIndicator
11-26-2007, 10:16 AM
True dat.

But if he came in for one hitter or two a game, maybe he'd be more effective and still not hamstring us with a crummy 2009 contract.

His contract extension in 2009 is based on appearances, not innings so, one hitter counts the same as three innings.

I'm still baffled as to why he appeared in so many games at the end of the lost season.

Right now he is 1/2 way to that guaranteed 2009 contract.:thumbdown

HokieRed
11-26-2007, 10:32 AM
As of now, I'd consider Cordero, Weathers, and Burton to have earned spots in the bullpen. Everything else would be up for grabs.

Will M
11-26-2007, 11:57 AM
As of now, I'd consider Cordero, Weathers, and Burton to have earned spots in the bullpen. Everything else would be up for grabs.

Which is why I would like to acquire one more solid reliever to go with these three.

Then the last 3 spots could be up for grabs in spring training.

Plus I think both Coffey and Majik have some talent but need a change of scenery.

AmarilloRed
11-26-2007, 12:18 PM
IP last year: Weathers-77 2/3
Stanton - 57 2/3
Coffey- 51
Burton 43
Saarloos 42 2/3
Coutlangas 41
Salmon 24
Majewski 23
McBeth 19 2/3
Bray 14 1/3

The more IP you have, the better idea you have how a reliever will do.Saarloos got plenty of innings last year and didn't perform, so he is off the roster. Stanton also got innings and would be gone except for his contract. The Reds kept giving inning to Coffey and Guardado because they kept hoping they would improve. Jon Coutlangas got about 40 innings, and did pretty well. I suppose the rest is open to interpretation. I think Salmon did well and deserves a roster spot, but that is simply my personal opinion. As for acquiring another reliever, I think the Reds will address the starting pitching before they even consider adding another reliever. We simply have too many bullpen pitchers right now.

TC81190
11-26-2007, 08:59 PM
I'd go...

CL Cordero
SU Weathers
SU Burton
MR Coutlangus
MR Salmon
MR McBeth
LR Majewski

Wish we still had Gosling, but oh well.