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View Full Version : Reds Getting Contender Lipservice...



hippie07
11-25-2007, 12:02 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/thoughts-on-the.html

Thoughts On The Cordero Signing
The only thing between Francisco Cordero and a massive four-year, $46MM deal with the Reds is a physical. John Fay notes that the Reds are taking payroll up past $80MM, $5MM more than he'd previously speculated. Might the Reds take it even higher to add a Carlos Silva type? They could always backload a contract, too.

The Brewers have to be annoyed that their two Type A free agent relievers signed with protected 2008 first-round picks. What's worse, Cordero improves one of their direct competitors.

We can talk about Cordero being overpaid, about how he'll earn $165K per inning. But at least the Reds acknowledged that David Weathers isn't the shut-down arm you want in the ninth inning.

The Cordero signing helps, but the team's biggest need remains unaddressed. Reds' starters posted a 5.10 ERA in 2007, worst in the NL. I like Arroyo and Harang at the top, and don't mind Belisle/Bailey/Cueto at the back. Add a solid starter and it's fair to call the Reds a contender. A.J. Burnett could make sense, as a top groundball pitcher who's considered available. And why can't the Reds mix it up for the big names like Santana, Bedard, Blanton, and Haren?



Nice to see the Reds get mentioned w/ the big boys!!

AmarilloRed
11-25-2007, 01:41 AM
It ignores the fact that we won't see Cueto or Maloney until at least the All-Star break. Harang/Arroyo/Belisle/Bailey will give us a good front 4, but we still need to acquire one good starting pitcher.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
11-25-2007, 08:34 AM
It ignores the fact that we won't see Cueto or Maloney until at least the All-Star break. Harang/Arroyo/Belisle/Bailey will give us a good front 4, but we still need to acquire one good starting pitcher.
It would be sooo nice to be able to move Belisle to the bullpen.

GoReds33
11-25-2007, 05:28 PM
It would be sooo nice to be able to move Belisle to the bullpen....Or to the minors.

I love that there is finally a little action on the Reds front. This deal automatically helps them next year. I hope they can get a starter, and we should be all set.

Marge'sMullet
11-25-2007, 07:17 PM
Get a #3 or 4 pitcher. aka AJ Burnett........and move Belisle to the pen. With luck I can see this team surprising the NL.

Bip Roberts
11-25-2007, 07:52 PM
A trade would be nice but it scares me of what we would have to give up. It just scares me. We havent had 4 prospects like the 4 we got right now in so long, if ever, and im afraid of what we could miss out on.

757690
11-25-2007, 08:58 PM
A trade would be nice but it scares me of what we would have to give up. It just scares me. We havent had 4 prospects like the 4 we got right now in so long, if ever, and im afraid of what we could miss out on.

I think the last time the Reds had such a wealth of prospects was the late 80's with Larkin, Eric Davis, Kal Daniels, Kurt Stillwell, Tracy Jones (Yes, he was top prospect once) Sabo and O'Neill.

The key was knowing which ones to trade, which ones to keep.
The Reds kept Larkin, traded Stillwell, which was smart.

I see the Hamilton/Bruce/Votto scenario as similar to the Larkin/Stillwell scenario. At least one should be traded, but figuring out which one is the problem, and no one knows until after it is too late.

gilpdawg
11-25-2007, 09:17 PM
I think the last time the Reds had such a wealth of prospects was the late 80's with Larkin, Eric Davis, Kal Daniels, Kurt Stillwell, Tracy Jones (Yes, he was top prospect once) Sabo and O'Neill.

The key was knowing which ones to trade, which ones to keep.
The Reds kept Larkin, traded Stillwell, which was smart.

I see the Hamilton/Bruce/Votto scenario as similar to the Larkin/Stillwell scenario. At least one should be traded, but figuring out which one is the problem, and no one knows until after it is too late.
You keep Bruce at all costs. Easily. He's the real deal.

George Foster
11-25-2007, 09:31 PM
You keep Bruce at all costs. Easily. He's the real deal.

With Votto's and Hamilton's success last year how do you say that they are not the real deal? Has Bruce seen any ML pitching yet?

Why can't we keep all 3 and trade Freel, EE, Coffey, Bray or Burton for a #3 starter?

757690
11-25-2007, 10:17 PM
With Votto's and Hamilton's success last year how do you say that they are not the real deal? Has Bruce seen any ML pitching yet?

Why can't we keep all 3 and trade Freel, EE, Coffey, Bray or Burton for a #3 starter?


Hamilton/Bruce/Votto are all lefthanded hitting outfield/firstbasemen.

I think there is no need to trade any of them this year, especially if the Reds don't give Dunn an extension. But if they do sign Dunn to a long term deal, it will be difficult to play all four plus Griffey at the same time.
And yes, unless Jr. gets hurt again, I think it would be wise to pick up his option in 2009. There is a 4.5M buyout, so it really makes sense to keep him if he is productive.

757690
11-25-2007, 10:19 PM
Also, I wouldn't lump Coffey in with Bray or Burton. That's like lumping in the McRib with Montgomery Inn.

*BaseClogger*
11-25-2007, 11:35 PM
I'm really tired of the negative Belisle comments... he deserves another chance...

kaldaniels
11-26-2007, 01:07 AM
I'm really tired of the negative Belisle comments... he deserves another chance...

Nothing negative about Matt at all in this thread. If the Reds had the luxury to move him to the pen as a long reliever, that would be awesome. No disputing that.

BEETTLEBUG
11-26-2007, 04:39 AM
As Margies Mulluett said earlier in post to get A#3 or 4 starter aka AJ Burnett and put Belisle in pen but I am scared of his out clause for next year as for what to trade that would get it done.

LincolnLandReds
11-26-2007, 01:40 PM
First off, Belisle isn't the best option as a long middle reliever. Because of his back issues, the getting up and down is too much wear and tear on his back as he showed in 2006.

Next: Wait until Dec 12 and the Reds might just pull another starting pitcher out of the hat, i.e. Mark Prior. The Cubs have until the 12th to work out a deal or Prior becomes a free agent. Maybe there is a Cubs 2003 Reunion to happen at GABP with Dusty and Prior. Also remember that Kerry Wood is floating out there as well.

Another possibility being raised is that Mr. Moneyball in Oakland is ready to rebuild and is dangling Dan Haren. He is still signed for another 3 years at just under 16million over those years. If the right trade could be worked out, Haren could be very interesting (but remember his numbers are inflated because of pitching in that huge park in Oakland, just like Mulder, Hudson, Zito and just about every other pitcher from Oakland)

roby
11-27-2007, 01:03 AM
First off, Belisle isn't the best option as a long middle reliever. Because of his back issues, the getting up and down is too much wear and tear on his back as he showed in 2006.

Next: Wait until Dec 12 and the Reds might just pull another starting pitcher out of the hat, i.e. Mark Prior. The Cubs have until the 12th to work out a deal or Prior becomes a free agent. Maybe there is a Cubs 2003 Reunion to happen at GABP with Dusty and Prior. Also remember that Kerry Wood is floating out there as well.

Another possibility being raised is that Mr. Moneyball in Oakland is ready to rebuild and is dangling Dan Haren. He is still signed for another 3 years at just under 16million over those years. If the right trade could be worked out, Haren could be very interesting (but remember his numbers are inflated because of pitching in that huge park in Oakland, just like Mulder, Hudson, Zito and just about every other pitcher from Oakland)


I need a little help understanding something. I have heard the remark that Belisle's back problems prohibit him from pitching in the bullpen...because he might have to warm up and sit back down a couple of times. I'm not being a smart alec, I really wonder why is that any different that having to sit down between innings five or six times in a game? I know he might not be able to pitch 3 or 4 consecutive nights...but the bullpen seems improved enough that that wouldn't have to happen anyway. :confused:

George Foster
11-27-2007, 01:07 AM
I need a little help understanding something. I have heard the remark that Belisle's back problems prohibit him from pitching in the bullpen...because he might have to warm up and sit back down a couple of times. I'm not being a smart alec, I really wonder why is that any different that having to sit down between innings five or six times in a game? I know he might not be able to pitch 3 or 4 consecutive nights...but the bullpen seems improved enough that that wouldn't have to happen anyway. :confused:

I guess the only difference is that if he was a starting pitcher, he would have 4 days rest, no matter what.

BEETTLEBUG
11-27-2007, 06:05 AM
what might it take to get A.J. Burnett as far as players?

AmarilloRed
11-27-2007, 01:30 PM
mlbtraderumors.com mentioned that a shortstop is the Blue Jays biggest need. It would probably take a shortstop and a pitching prospect. Gonzalez and Maloney, anyone? The only problem is that A.J. Burnett can opt out of his contract after next year.

BEETTLEBUG
11-28-2007, 04:01 AM
Could he be talked out of opting out?

757690
11-28-2007, 05:40 AM
Could he be talked out of opting out?
Anyone can be talked out of opting out, with a contract extension or pay raise. But I doubt he would give up that bargaining chip for free.

BEETTLEBUG
11-28-2007, 06:48 AM
I don't under stand why if he has a contract past next year why would he want out of it.

AmarilloRed
11-28-2007, 08:46 AM
In my opinion Burnett effectively has a one-year deal, only worse. That's because he has the ability to opt out after the 2008 season. So one of two things will happen:

1. Burnett is healthy enough to pitch 170+ innings, opts out, and secures a four-year deal somewhere.

2. Burnett is not healthy enough to pitch 150 innings and chooses to accept the $24MM owed to him over the 2009-10 time period (I consider 150-170 innings a gray area). If a team trades for Burnett, endures an injury-plagued '08, and is then saddled with further burden, that's worse than a straight-up one-year commitment like Jon Garland's.

My other thought is that Duncan is not a fit for the Jays. They're locked in with Lyle Overbay at first and Frank Thomas at DH. Between Adam Lind, Travis Snider, and Alex Rios, the outfield corners are covered. The Jays' biggest need is a shortstop, also a need of the Cardinals. I suppose Duncan could be part of a three-way deal.

A takeaway, as noted at VEB, is that Burnett may well be the one available pitcher with #1 potential not named Johan Santana. Another good point of theirs - he's probably worth $12 mil as a 165 inning pitcher.

I copied this from mlbtraderumors.com. [It could be done, but I would want to sign him to an extension before I traded for him.