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View Full Version : so whats the plan



jfleur87
11-25-2007, 02:09 AM
is it burton/weathers in the 7th/8th...coffey in the mop up roles where he performs well with no pressure giving us a chance to make a comeback?

mroby85
11-25-2007, 02:28 AM
i wouldn't say todd coffey making the team is a guarantee, at least thats my personal opinion.

AmarilloRed
11-25-2007, 09:43 AM
Todd Coffey will have to make the roster in spring training.

redsfanmia
11-25-2007, 02:53 PM
I say the only way Coffey makes the team is as the long man and hopefully Beslile is in that role.

*BaseClogger*
11-25-2007, 03:37 PM
I say the only way Coffey makes the team is as the long man and hopefully Beslile is in that role.

Belisle belongs in the rotation

redsfanmia
11-25-2007, 04:12 PM
Belisle belongs in the rotation

If the Reds really plan on contending he belongs in the long man role.

757690
11-25-2007, 04:22 PM
I agree, Belisle does seem to be best suited for a longman role, but I don't think the Reds have the starters needed to put him in that role. They would need to add at least two, maybe even three solid starting pitchers for that to happen.
They can't count on Bailey and Cueto or Maloney for a full season just yet.

Vada Pinson Fan
11-25-2007, 05:17 PM
At this point I agree with Belisle being a long relief guy. His lifetime Major League ERA is 4.85 with 37 games started and only 1 complete game. I do hold out hope for Belisle becoming a better pitcher but I would challenge him to show the Reds he can pitch better, much better than he has and put him in long relief starting off '08. This is contingent, unfortunately, on acquiring a #1, #2 or #3 starting pitcher. A 15-18 record doesn't help the team make the playoffs. Coffey needs to go.

AmarilloRed
11-25-2007, 06:53 PM
Belisle's numbers are good enough for him to be the fifth starter. He will not be a long reliever unless the Reds have superior starters, and I don't see that happening for a while.

Jay Bruce
11-25-2007, 07:07 PM
Belisle is not nearly as bad as some think he is. His 6.33 K/9 coupled with a 2.18 BB/9 ratio gave him an excellent 2.91 K/BB ratio. Couple that with his groundball tendencies, and you have an acceptable rotation member. His 1.32 HR/9 was admittedly too high, but his 12.3% HR/FB ratio suggests that that is most likely from playing in GABP, instead of being overtly prone to giving up the homerun. Last year, Belisle had an xFIP of 4.32, a run lower than his actual ERA. This suggests that park factors and bad luck had a role to play in his actual ERA. If put into the rotation next year, I would expect Belisle to be a perfectly capable middle of the rotation starter.

Vada Pinson Fan
11-25-2007, 07:53 PM
Even in Minor League Baseball Matt Belisle was just 38-47 in 7 seasons. 15-18 in the majors. Belisle's not a bad guy in th 5th spot of the rotation but if I'd like to see better production in that 5th spot. I would like to see Matt Belisle pitch inside much, much more. In GABP especially; the inside corner of the plate has to belong to the pitcher. I think Homer needs to improve in this area too.

My point in all of this is to have a strong enough starting staff (after acquiring a strong 1, 2 0r #3 type of SP) that Belisle is in the bullpen. Making the bullpen even stronger. I don't want to have to rely on Belisle if we don't have/need to in the SP rotation. Injuries will indoubtedly prevent that wish from happening, however.

thatcoolguy_22
11-25-2007, 08:13 PM
Even in Minor League Baseball Matt Belisle was just 38-47 in 7 seasons. 15-18 in the majors. Belisle's not a bad guy in th 5th spot of the rotation but if I'd like to see better production in that 5th spot.



using a W/L record to evaluate pitchers is the equivalent of saying Ladainian Tomlinson is only a marginal runningback because the chargers are 6-5...

For a #5 starter Belisle is above the major league curve... I would love to see them move him to the bullpen though but, only because they just picked up 3 new starters that are head and shoulders better than Belisle

DannyB
11-25-2007, 08:19 PM
Belisle is not nearly as bad as some think he is. His 6.33 K/9 coupled with a 2.18 BB/9 ratio gave him an excellent 2.91 K/BB ratio. Couple that with his groundball tendencies, and you have an acceptable rotation member. His 1.32 HR/9 was admittedly too high, but his 12.3% HR/FB ratio suggests that that is most likely from playing in GABP, instead of being overtly prone to giving up the homerun. Last year, Belisle had an xFIP of 4.32, a run lower than his actual ERA. This suggests that park factors and bad luck had a role to play in his actual ERA. If put into the rotation next year, I would expect Belisle to be a perfectly capable middle of the rotation starter.

I liked Belisle even before all that:)

*BaseClogger*
11-25-2007, 11:40 PM
Belisle is not nearly as bad as some think he is. His 6.33 K/9 coupled with a 2.18 BB/9 ratio gave him an excellent 2.91 K/BB ratio. Couple that with his groundball tendencies, and you have an acceptable rotation member. His 1.32 HR/9 was admittedly too high, but his 12.3% HR/FB ratio suggests that that is most likely from playing in GABP, instead of being overtly prone to giving up the homerun. Last year, Belisle had an xFIP of 4.32, a run lower than his actual ERA. This suggests that park factors and bad luck had a role to play in his actual ERA. If put into the rotation next year, I would expect Belisle to be a perfectly capable middle of the rotation starter.

you made the argument for me. That is exactly why he should be our fifth starter, because it would require giving up too much in trades to push him to the pen...

*BaseClogger*
11-25-2007, 11:42 PM
At this point I agree with Belisle being a long relief guy. His lifetime Major League ERA is 4.85 with 37 games started and only 1 complete game. I do hold out hope for Belisle becoming a better pitcher but I would challenge him to show the Reds he can pitch better, much better than he has and put him in long relief starting off '08. This is contingent, unfortunately, on acquiring a #1, #2 or #3 starting pitcher. A 15-18 record doesn't help the team make the playoffs. Coffey needs to go.

One complete game in his first 37 big league starts when he may or may not be on a pitch count is actually pretty impressive in major league baseball these days... It seems with the arguments that you are making you still live in the 1970's of player evaluation...