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View Full Version : Redszone Community Prospect Vote: #11



dougdirt
12-01-2007, 01:16 PM
Vote for the player who you think is the Reds #11 prospect (the best prospect who is not yet on the list). We will go with this as far as you guys want to take it.

I will post a new list every 2 days with 10-15 options to vote on.

If you feel like making an argument on why a guy should be voted here, feel free to vote and state why you voted for that player.

If there is someone that is not currently listed as an option to vote on, vote for 'other' then just state who you want to vote for in the thread.

If there is anyone you would like to see as an option on the next poll, just say so and if they garner enough support, they will be placed on the next poll. Guys with the lowest amount of votes will usually be removed for the next few guys who were talked about in the previous thread.


Prospect 1 - Jay Bruce
Prospect 2 - Homer Bailey
Prospect 3 - Johnny Cueto
Prospect 4 - Joey Votto
Prospect 5 - Todd Frazier
Prospect 6 - Drew Stubbs
Prospect 7 - Matt Maloney
Prospect 8 - Josh Roenicke
Prospect 9 - Travis Wood
Prospect 10 - Devin Mesoraco

camisadelgolf
12-01-2007, 01:45 PM
I went with Kyle Lotzkar, who I think can become an ace. Chris Dickerson is a reserve outfielder, in my opinion. Danny Dorn is good, but his ceiling isn't as high as Lotzkar's. Carlos Fisher has potential, but he is inconsistent and may have picked up pitching too late. I think Juan Francisco and Brandon Waring have a lot of work to do with plate discipline before I count on them for anything. Carlos Guevara isn't even one of the Reds' top-three relief pitching prospects. Sam Lecure is a back-of-the-rotation starter at best. Ty Pelland might as well be called Wild Thing. Adam Rosales is good, but it's not like he has put up anything close to MVP numbers anywhere. I'm high on Neftali Soto, but he is very raw, so I'm reluctant. Daryl Thompson is one of the Reds' more underrated prospects, I think, but still, I'd say he's in that second tier with Carlos Fisher. Justin Turner is one of my favorite prospects, but I think he lacks tools. Chris Valaika's ceiling is too limited for #11. Pedro Viola is just as deserving as Roenicke, but I don't think Roenicke deserved to be in the top ten. I'd put Sean Watson ahead of Fisher and Thompson but not as high as Kyle Lotzkar.

Blue
12-01-2007, 01:49 PM
Lotzkar, and he could very well be top 5 next offseason.

AdamDunn
12-01-2007, 01:51 PM
Sean Watson, he's higher than Lotzkar and has nasty stuff.

camisadelgolf
12-01-2007, 02:15 PM
Sean Watson, he's higher than Lotzkar and has nasty stuff.

If Lotzkar is #11, I think I'm going with Watson as #12.

Prf15
12-01-2007, 03:03 PM
I went with Lotzkar as well. Doug, I think you should add Sean Henry to the next poll. I don't know much about him but looks like he has some pop in his bat, some speed and get get on base at a decent clip.

dougdirt
12-01-2007, 03:26 PM
I went with Lotzkar as well. Doug, I think you should add Sean Henry to the next poll. I don't know much about him but looks like he has some pop in his bat, some speed and get get on base at a decent clip.

Will do

Kc61
12-01-2007, 04:02 PM
Clearly Francisco. Has youth, talent, performance. .268, 25 homers, 90 RBIs in Low-A, high ceiing.

Lotzkar had a good couple of months and might take off. But Francisco has proven a lot more at this point and has all the tools. If he improves his plate discipline even slightly, imagine the power numbers he'll put up.

And Francisco has a rocket arm, according to the public reports.

Highlifeman21
12-01-2007, 04:56 PM
Honestly, what difference is there between the 5th best prospect and beyond?

Different name, same question mark.

HokieRed
12-01-2007, 06:11 PM
Would like to see Evan Hildenbrandt added pretty soon.

dougdirt
12-01-2007, 06:13 PM
Honestly, what difference is there between the 5th best prospect and beyond?

Different name, same question mark.

Thats not true at all. Every guy left has different upsides, abilities, levels of play currently.... all kinds of different things.

Superdude
12-01-2007, 06:19 PM
I went with Watson. He had some trouble jumping to Sarasota, but I think he'll bounce back in '08. He and Lotzkar are extremely close though in my opinion.

Joseph
12-01-2007, 08:45 PM
I've voted Sean Watson the last couple polls. I think he's got some potential in the 'pen.

RedsManRick
12-01-2007, 09:09 PM
I can't believe Dorn is getting less support now than he was 3 or 4 picks back. I guess the allure of the unknown is strong.

dougdirt
12-01-2007, 09:15 PM
I wonder how many people have been swayed with the Lotzkar talk? There hasn't been much talk of Dorn lately, just the solid support.

AmarilloRed
12-01-2007, 09:51 PM
I have voted Dorn the last couple of polls, as I think he had a solid season last year. There is a considerable amount of doubt, however, as to whether he can be a starting outfielder when he reaches the major leagues.

chicoruiz
12-01-2007, 11:02 PM
I voted Rosales. Guy has played everywhere in the infield and has hit well except in 2006, when he was hurt all year.

GoReds33
12-02-2007, 12:10 AM
I voted again for Waring. In my personal top 10, I had him at 8. I love the pop in his bat. I think of him as the next Ryan Braun.

dougdirt
12-02-2007, 12:22 AM
I voted again for Waring. In my personal top 10, I had him at 8. I love the pop in his bat. I think of him as the next Ryan Braun.

What gives you the impression that he can be the next Ryan Braun?

GoReds33
12-02-2007, 12:37 AM
What gives you the impression that he can be the next Ryan Braun?I guess I'm being kind of optimistic. I just think that he sounds like a Ryan Braun type player. From what I heard he doesn't play good defense. I believe I have heard his hands refered to as rocks. That sounds to me like Braun. His numbers are kind of similar to Braun's. He has terrific power, and a good average.



Braun: Waring:
games: 113 69
averages .324 .313
homeruns 34 20
rbi 97 63
ops 1.004 .987

Those look pretty similar to me.

zjr1717
12-02-2007, 02:53 AM
I love Lotzkar's stuff. But I have doubts about him, for one he's still extremely young. The other doubt I have is that I remember reading a scouting report on Lotzkar that stated he was a big injury risk because of his mechanics. He has a chicken wing motion, similar to B.J. Ryan's, that could make him very prone to elbow problems.

mlbfan30
12-02-2007, 03:21 AM
If he turns into BJ Ryan (a top closer) then that is actually a very good thing.
Lotzkar is 5 years younger than BJ Ryan when they made their Pro Debuts.
In fact his 1st year is better than Bailey's first year, and he is a year younger

dougdirt
12-02-2007, 03:50 AM
I guess I'm being kind of optimistic. I just think that he sounds like a Ryan Braun type player. From what I heard he doesn't play good defense. I believe I have heard his hands refered to as rocks. That sounds to me like Braun. His numbers are kind of similar to Braun's. He has terrific power, and a good average.



Braun: Waring:
games: 113 69
averages .324 .313
homeruns 34 20
rbi 97 63
ops 1.004 .987

Those look pretty similar to me.

Of course the big difference in those numbers is one was done in rookie ball and one was done in the major leagues. Braun was a top 10 pick in all of baseball while Waring dropped to the 7th round despite finishing second in the country in HR in college. I would love to see Waring turn into a Braun type of hitter, I just don't see it happening.

Kc61
12-02-2007, 09:17 AM
I wonder how many people have been swayed with the Lotzkar talk? There hasn't been much talk of Dorn lately, just the solid support.

I just think that both Francisco and Lotzkar are higher ceiling types than is Dorn. So, in some order, Lotzkar/Francisco should be 11-12. At that point, I see nobody who should stand in the way of Dorn, who I would have at 13. Not bad for a late round draft choice, very respectable.

RedsManRick
12-02-2007, 12:04 PM
What we see often is that as guys move up, reality sets in. We are less and less able to wishcast their flaws away. We focus on what they can't do and minimize what they can. The exact opposite happens with that guy who hasn't done much of anything yet. He's still a blank slate for our imaginations.

Don't get me wrong; I don't think Dorn is a future all-star. I do think that guys who move 3 levels in a year and hit .300/.400/.500 along the way tend to become major leaguers. It's one thing to take a top 20 pick who performed well in his first season in rookie ball and put him in the top 10 prospects. It's another to take the 53rd overall pick who has 29 decent professional innings and put him ahead of a guy who excelled in AA at an appropriate age.

I'm excited about Lotzkar. But at what point do you start giving credit for actual performance? At what point do you stop brushing away their problems as fixable. If Dorn goes .300/.400/.500 split between AA and AAA next year, and Lotzkar goes 140 IP with a 3.50 ERA, 9 H/9, 3 BB/9, and 9 K/9 in Dayton, where will they stand? I get the feeling that because he wasn't a high draft pick, Dorn will be considered a virtual non-prospect until he's a major leaguers.

And if Dorn is going to be railed for his problems with lefties, than Fransisco shouldn't even be on the radar until he learns the strikezone. That's one skill that is quite projectable and a big strike against him. He's got a ton of power, but how is that going to translate up the the line when his contact issues are exploited even more?

HokieRed
12-02-2007, 02:11 PM
I voted Lotzkar; will vote Dorn next. It's just a close call on potential upside, value of a starter vs. corner outfielder (plus problem of whether Dorn will ever actually get a chance in Cinti with the abundance of outfielders.)

*BaseClogger*
12-02-2007, 02:26 PM
I went with Kyle Lotzkar, who I think can become an ace. Chris Dickerson is a reserve outfielder, in my opinion. Danny Dorn is good, but his ceiling isn't as high as Lotzkar's. Carlos Fisher has potential, but he is inconsistent and may have picked up pitching too late. I think Juan Francisco and Brandon Waring have a lot of work to do with plate discipline before I count on them for anything. Carlos Guevara isn't even one of the Reds' top-three relief pitching prospects. Sam Lecure is a back-of-the-rotation starter at best. Ty Pelland might as well be called Wild Thing. Adam Rosales is good, but it's not like he has put up anything close to MVP numbers anywhere. I'm high on Neftali Soto, but he is very raw, so I'm reluctant. Daryl Thompson is one of the Reds' more underrated prospects, I think, but still, I'd say he's in that second tier with Carlos Fisher. Justin Turner is one of my favorite prospects, but I think he lacks tools. Chris Valaika's ceiling is too limited for #11. Pedro Viola is just as deserving as Roenicke, but I don't think Roenicke deserved to be in the top ten. I'd put Sean Watson ahead of Fisher and Thompson but not as high as Kyle Lotzkar.

Nice post. It's nice to here a pessimistic view of our prospects to get a better feel of what kind of player they are, rather than the typical build-up...