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AmarilloRed
12-01-2007, 09:24 PM
I saw this thread recently on ORG, and decided it was a good idea to have a similar thread on The Sun Deck. The Winter Meetings will start in two days, and this thread is for members to suggest what they would like the Reds to do or to report news about moves the Reds have made during their winter meetings.


It is obvious that the Reds need starting pitching. I think the Reds should attempt to sign a #3/#4 through free agency and sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal. I would also seek to acquire a #1/#2 in a trade if I could, as long as we don't drain the farm system too much. Determining if you could re-sign Dunn to a LTC would seem to be a priority, especially if you are considering moving Hamilton in a trade.

Once we had acquired the necessary starting pitching, I would then seek to sign all the young cheap players we have left to 6 year deals like the Indians used to do. It would keep them cheap for a while, and it would give the Reds time to grow into a intermediate organization which can afford to properly reward good players.

durl
12-01-2007, 10:15 PM
I was out at the Opryland Hotel in Nashville today and saw the sign for the Winter Meetings. I'm pretty anxious to see what comes out of them.

Bip Roberts
12-01-2007, 10:17 PM
I am pretty excited considering how much wayne is talking compared to normally.

hippie07
12-01-2007, 10:43 PM
I hope the Reds see what happens w/ Santana ... either they get him, or if the Yankees give up both Ian Kennedy & Phil Hughes for him, then the Reds try to pry one them away (because the Twins still need a 3rd baseman.

EdE & Belisle/Maloney to Twins for Ian Kennedy
then,
Hamilton & Belisle/Maloney to A's for Haren OR if that doesn't work out then to the Pirates for Ian Snell

A rotation of:
Harang
Haren/Snell
Arroyo
Kennedy
Bailey

Even if we're left w/ Snell, that would a very cheap and very formidable rotation, the Reds would have 1 ace and 4 potential aces (Snell, Kennedy, Bailey, & Cueto).

fadetoblack2880
12-02-2007, 12:24 AM
To me, sending anyone to Pittsburgh for Snell is a mistake. In my opinion, he has yet to become a proven starter and could use another year before being mentioned in any trades. Now if he could be acquired for someone cheap, then go for it, but he's not worth a major league ready player. Not yet anyway.

hippie07
12-02-2007, 12:27 AM
I do worry about trading w/ the Pirates for pitching prospects (Dave Williams, anyone?) -- not that Williams and Snell are the same thing, but I just have bad memories....

fadetoblack2880
12-02-2007, 12:31 AM
I agree. Snell would be a good pickup for a second-teir prospect but I would hate to see the Reds overpay for a young, less than mediocre starter from Pittsburgh right now. If they go with him, then, in my opinion, it would be going against what the front office says is a win now situation. To me Snell is no better than Matt Belisle. I'm not bashing Belise, but the need for another Belise type pitcher would make little sense if they are commited to winning.

hippie07
12-02-2007, 12:39 AM
I hope that the Reds hold onto Hamilton, but I think WK is seriously offering him in the markets.. I'm afraid he'll start big and work his way down and take whatever pitching he gets ... I fully expect he'll trade Hamilton straight up for a #3 starter (ala Wily Mo for Arroyo) ... only problem is that Hamilton is world's better than Wily Mo, so it's not such a good bargain.

WK's recent comments about how good Hammy is and how hard he's working in the offseason, but not mentioning him in the future of the Reds (like he did w/ Votto) -- leads me to change my mind and believe that WK is not just casually shopping Hamilton.

fadetoblack2880
12-02-2007, 12:48 AM
I hope that the Reds hold onto Hamilton, but I think WK is seriously offering him in the markets.. I'm afraid he'll start big and work his way down and take whatever pitching he gets ... I fully expect he'll trade Hamilton straight up for a #3 starter (ala Wily Mo for Arroyo) ... only problem is that Hamilton is world's better than Wily Mo, so it's not such a good bargain.

WK's recent comments about how good Hammy is and how hard he's working in the offseason, but not mentioning him in the future of the Reds (like he did w/ Votto) -- leads me to change my mind and believe that WK is not just casually shopping Hamilton.

I agree. I wouldn't mind a Hamilton trade if the Reds can work out a package deal for a starter such as Eric Bedard. I don't really see it happening, but who knows. I do hope they pull the trigger on something next week. I don't really look forward to another eventless Winter Meetings like last year. If they'll open their wallets for a relief pitcher, why not go a little more for a talented starter. It's not like the fans won't return if the Reds start winning. It wouldn't take much. They have more than enough depth for a deal or two. Why not make a run for Santana? Get their name out their and show everyone that they mean business. I don't know that he would waive his no-trade clause to come to Cincinnati, but why not try? Show ESPN that the orginization means business and is ready to bring a winner back.

hippie07
12-02-2007, 01:00 AM
From what I understand... doesn't the team that deals for him have 72 hours to talk w/ him ... maybe if we offer him the kind of contract extension he's looking for, then he would waive his no-trade clause..

I have to admit, the prospect of landing Santana has caused me to lose sleep. If WK were to pull it off, I'm a poor student an hour's drive from Cincy, but I'd buy season tickets the moment the ink dried.

crazybob60
12-02-2007, 01:15 AM
I do worry about trading w/ the Pirates for pitching prospects (Dave Williams, anyone?) -- not that Williams and Snell are the same thing, but I just have bad memories....

I agree with you 110% on this one....just the name Dave Williams will probably give me nightmares this evening.

And in Winter Meetings past, have the Reds made that many big splashes? I was trying to think of some of our signings and/or trades coming out of the Winter Meetings but I could think of none....someone possibly help me out/

mlbfan30
12-02-2007, 01:33 AM
It is obvious that the Reds need starting pitching. I think the Reds should attempt to sign a #3/#4 through free agency and sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal.

Just who is this #3/#4 that can be signed for less than 2 years? There aren't really any good SP in the FA market.

Also the Kennedy/Haren trades that were made up would never happen. Would you trade Harang for an injury prone CF that has had less than 300 ML at bats, and a #5?

hippie07
12-02-2007, 02:32 AM
Just who is this #3/#4 that can be signed for less than 2 years? There aren't really any good SP in the FA market.

Also the Kennedy/Haren trades that were made up would never happen. Would you trade Harang for an injury prone CF that has had less than 300 ML at bats, and a #5?

No, but I would take Hamilton (don't agree that he's injury-plauged), for an injury-plagued version of Harang (Haren hasn't been able to stay healthy), especially if I were the A's and had excess pitching and needed an outfield bat ... one that has power, hits for average and has superstar potential...

The A's would be smart to make that deal, no way I would do it if I were the Reds unless I was desperate for pitching (which we are).

ChatterRed
12-02-2007, 03:16 AM
Hamilton is our best trade bait. And IMHO, is the best CFer on the market. If a team needs a solid CFer, then Hamilton is the best out there.

I think a straight up deal for a #2 starting pitcher is possible. Maybe we have to throw in an extra prospect.

Stephenk29
12-02-2007, 04:08 AM
No, but I would take Hamilton (don't agree that he's injury-plauged), for an injury-plagued version of Harang (Haren hasn't been able to stay healthy), especially if I were the A's and had excess pitching and needed an outfield bat ... one that has power, hits for average and has superstar potential...

The A's would be smart to make that deal, no way I would do it if I were the Reds unless I was desperate for pitching (which we are).


Are you thinking of Hardan rather then Haren? Hardan gets injured every single year. Never heard anything of Haren ever getting hurt to my recollection.

redsfanmia
12-02-2007, 08:25 AM
I do worry about trading w/ the Pirates for pitching prospects (Dave Williams, anyone?) -- not that Williams and Snell are the same thing, but I just have bad memories....

That trade was just a Sean Casey salary dump, what we got back was secondary.

AmarilloRed
12-02-2007, 08:49 AM
Just who is this #3/#4 that can be signed for less than 2 years? There aren't really any good SP in the FA market.

Also the Kennedy/Haren trades that were made up would never happen. Would you trade Harang for an injury prone CF that has had less than 300 ML at bats, and a #5?

You can sign a good #3/#4 to a 1 year deal. Kenny Rogers recently signed one with Detroit. As for Hamilton, it is entirely possible you would trade a Kennedy type for Hamilton if you had a surplus of good starting pitching and you needed a starting outfielder. Haren is a different case, as the A's have always seeked to get 3 prospects back whenever they trade one of their starting pitchers.

mlbfan30
12-02-2007, 12:48 PM
List some #3/#4 starters..... I'd like to know who you think the Reds should go after.
There are no quality SP on the market. Either they have been bad, or been injured.

mound_patrol
12-02-2007, 01:18 PM
List some #3/#4 starters..... I'd like to know who you think the Reds should go after.
There are no quality SP on the market. Either they have been bad, or been injured.

Wolf would have been a good target but hes signed now. So I'd targer Clement or Lieber for a one year deal.

*BaseClogger*
12-02-2007, 01:39 PM
To me, sending anyone to Pittsburgh for Snell is a mistake. In my opinion, he has yet to become a proven starter and could use another year before being mentioned in any trades. Now if he could be acquired for someone cheap, then go for it, but he's not worth a major league ready player. Not yet anyway.


I agree. Snell would be a good pickup for a second-teir prospect but I would hate to see the Reds overpay for a young, less than mediocre starter from Pittsburgh right now. If they go with him, then, in my opinion, it would be going against what the front office says is a win now situation. To me Snell is no better than Matt Belisle. I'm not bashing Belise, but the need for another Belise type pitcher would make little sense if they are commited to winning.

I'm not sure which Ian Snell you guys are looking at. I see a guy with quality stuff, two full seasons of big league experience, and is still only 26 years old.
2006- 186 IP, 74 BB, 169 K's, with a 4.74 ERA.
2007- 208 IP, 68 BB, 177 K's, with a 3.76 ERA.
You can see that in 2007 he improved to 6.5 IPS, improved his control, added more strikeouts, and thusly lowered his ERA by a run. This guy has everything you look for in a young pitcher, and is still improving...


No, but I would take Hamilton (don't agree that he's injury-plauged), for an injury-plagued version of Harang (Haren hasn't been able to stay healthy)

Well Haren has thrown 217, 223, and 222.7 inning each of the last three seasons repectively so you are definitly thinking of Rich Harden...

BUTLER REDSFAN
12-02-2007, 02:17 PM
looks like i'll be hitting refresh every 5 seconds at work the next few days

BigRed
12-02-2007, 02:29 PM
Not to change the subject from pitching, but I was wondering if anyone else thinks that the catching needs improvement. I don't think the tandem of Ross and Valentin can get it done. I am not sure who is out there, but I would like to see something done here.
I am not sure specifically, who might be available, but I think that it is a need.

gedred69
12-02-2007, 02:42 PM
Not to change the subject from pitching, but I was wondering if anyone else thinks that the catching needs improvement. I don't think the tandem of Ross and Valentin can get it done. I am not sure who is out there, but I would like to see something done here.
I am not sure specifically, who might be available, but I think that it is a need.

I am kinda' leaning the same way. Too bad Ross can't hit like Valentin, or Valentin play defense and call a game like Ross. (Maybe DH for the catcher!):D

hippie07
12-02-2007, 03:55 PM
Are you thinking of Hardan rather then Haren? Hardan gets injured every single year. Never heard anything of Haren ever getting hurt to my recollection.

Yes, obviously, I got confused between to two - sorry. On the org there's a thread of "would you trade Bruce for Haren straight up?" Tough question because Bruce is an obvious superstar in the making ... but we need pitching .. and I don't think we need Dunn, Hamilton, & Bruce... so, considering we sign Dunn, that makes Hamilton or Bruce expendable.

Would you rather trade:
Bruce + lesser 'spects for Haren
OR
Hamilton & Bailey or Cueto for Haren...

I think when all is said and done Hamilton & Bruce will turn out to have similar production. Hamilton already has MLB success, but is perhaps still more of a risk due to injuries, etc.

However, I think I'd do either trade.

What do you think the A's would ask for for both Haren & Blanton?

757690
12-02-2007, 05:16 PM
Not to change the subject from pitching, but I was wondering if anyone else thinks that the catching needs improvement. I don't think the tandem of Ross and Valentin can get it done. I am not sure who is out there, but I would like to see something done here.
I am not sure specifically, who might be available, but I think that it is a need.


Personally I don't think an upgrade at catcher is necessary at all. Many teams win championships with light hitting catchers who can handle a pitching staff and throw out runners. Everyone raves about the Molina brothers, and I think Ross is as good as any of them.

Anyway, it's a moot point. To give you an idea of how weak the catchers market is, the Mets just gave up a top prospect, Milledge, to get Brian Schneider. There are only a handful of catchers who excel at both sides of the game, and they come at a hefty price.

AmarilloRed
12-02-2007, 06:29 PM
Not to change the subject from pitching, but I was wondering if anyone else thinks that the catching needs improvement. I don't think the tandem of Ross and Valentin can get it done. I am not sure who is out there, but I would like to see something done here.
I am not sure specifically, who might be available, but I think that it is a need.

Michael Barrett and Paul Lo Duca are the only free agent catchers left.

Betterread
12-02-2007, 07:14 PM
Yes, obviously, I got confused between to two - sorry. On the org there's a thread of "would you trade Bruce for Haren straight up?" Tough question because Bruce is an obvious superstar in the making ... but we need pitching .. and I don't think we need Dunn, Hamilton, & Bruce... so, considering we sign Dunn, that makes Hamilton or Bruce expendable.

Would you rather trade:
Bruce + lesser 'spects for Haren
OR
Hamilton & Bailey or Cueto for Haren...

I think when all is said and done Hamilton & Bruce will turn out to have similar production. Hamilton already has MLB success, but is perhaps still more of a risk due to injuries, etc.

However, I think I'd do either trade.

What do you think the A's would ask for for both Haren & Blanton?


Bruce straight up for RICH HARDEN. Not for Dan Haren. Bruce is a premier prospect. I'm reluctant to shop Hamilton until we see a whole season from him - he definitely showed flashed of greatness this year.
I would flip Votto or Cueto and the A's choice of a second prospect (other than the Reds' top 4 guys) for Dan Haren.

Betterread
12-02-2007, 07:17 PM
Are you thinking of Hardan rather then Haren? Hardan gets injured every single year. Never heard anything of Haren ever getting hurt to my recollection.
Harden has some of the best stuff in the majors. He's a true #1 starter, when he's healthy. Haren is a good middle of the rotation workhorse.
Harden has been hurt the last two years but nothing requiring major surgery.

hippie07
12-02-2007, 09:05 PM
Well, the A's are supposedly shopping Haren & Blanton (I've not read much out of the A's camp that suggests they're shopping Hardan, although they may be)

I've looked around and discovered that the A's are (or at least were) looking for 3rd base, shortstop, and pitching prospects. [Not outfielders which is where we have the most depth]

Plus, the loser of the NYY and RedSox for Santana and the Mets are supposedly coming after Haren - so, we'll have to be pretty competitive w/ our offer if we want to win him.

I'd trade EdE, Baliely/Cueto, and Janish for Haren..... if the A's don't want Janish, maybe we throw in someone like Bray.

Despite what we might think is best - I get the feeling that WK would be cautious yet willing when it comes to trading Hamilton & EdE (I don't get the same vibe w/ Votto, despite the Hatteberg resigning, I feel like WK sees Votto in the future plans).

If WK pulled off the above trade for Haren, he could either hold onto Hamilton or trade him for someone like Snell. (I know that there's conflicting views on Snell's worth, but he is a pitching prospect w/ #1-3 potential, so I think WK would consider it).

A rotation of:
Harang
Haren
Snell
Arroyo
Belisle/Cueto

would be a pretty sweet rotation, but I'd almost rather hold onto Hamilton and if more pitching becomes necessary, we could trade him mid-year.

Will M
12-02-2007, 10:04 PM
Not to change the subject from pitching, but I was wondering if anyone else thinks that the catching needs improvement. I don't think the tandem of Ross and Valentin can get it done. I am not sure who is out there, but I would like to see something done here.
I am not sure specifically, who might be available, but I think that it is a need.

I was unhappy Valentin's option was picked up.
His defense is poor & his bat is in serious decline ( look at his declining OPS from 2005-2006-2007 ). I would rather have gotten someone else to split time with Ross. Now that we have both signed for 2008 I don't see us getting a 3rd catcher , nor do I see a big trade market for Ross or Valentin.

AmarilloRed
12-02-2007, 10:06 PM
Free Agent Starting Pitching Stat Leaders

The Baseball-Reference Play Index is an awesome tool for just $29 per year. Read all about it here.

Let's look at the statistical leaders for starting pitchers.

Looking for a good strikeout rate?
K/9 Leaders, min 50 IP
Freddy Garcia - 7.76
Bartolo Colon - 6.89
Jason Jennings - 6.45
Roger Clemens - 6.18

Looking for good control?
BB/9 Leaders, min 50 IP
Carlos Silva - 1.60
Jeff Weaver - 2.15
Rodrigo Lopez - 2.38
David Wells - 2.40
Bartolo Colon - 2.63
Kyle Lohse - 2.66
Roger Clemens - 2.82
Andy Pettitte - 2.88
Freddy Garcia - 2.95

Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon are on both these lists and are both free agents. I might see if we can sign either in free agency. Silva leading the league in BB/9 may indicate why he is such a hot property as a free agent. I might look at subscribing to this Index next year.

hippie07
12-02-2007, 10:10 PM
I thought about Freddy Garcia, but he won't be back from surgery until June and is still looking for $8mil .... ouch!

AmarilloRed
12-02-2007, 10:23 PM
Agent Peter Greenberg said he'd begin taking bids for Freddy Garcia at the winter meetings, but that he didn't know if the right-hander would sign then.
Greenberg said Garcia could wait until completing his rehab from shoulder surgery to sign. "If we did a showcase and we reached a deal," he said, "we'd let a team do a physical and do a Roger Clemens, a prorated deal for that season plus any extra years." It sounds like a very risky strategy, as there are no guarantees Garcia will be healthy in June. If Garcia signs next month, the Mets might be the favorites to land him. "Omar (Minaya, the Mets' GM) has called several times," Greenberg said. "Omar likes him. The Mets were one of the top contenders when the Phillies got him.

There seem to be no guarantees he would be healthy even in June. It seems both he and Colon are returning from injury, but both are outstanding starters when healthy. A team would have to weigh the injury implications if they were considering signing either player.

AdamDunn
12-02-2007, 10:36 PM
Sign Bartolo Colon to a one year $7.5 million dollar contract!!! whoot! that would get us winning

hippie07
12-03-2007, 01:16 AM
If I'm WK, I see if BCast will pay for Santana, if so, I offer EdE, Bailey, and Hamilton for him and use the 72-hour window to sign him to a 5yr 25mil per contract... then I go home happy. Although, it might cast the club into some tight financial situations ... what a shot of adrenaline it would be for the Cincy ballclub, fans, and media.

If that doesn't work, then I put the following offers on the table:
EdE, Bailey/Cueto, Janish, Bray to A's for Haren
Hamilton, Maloney, Pelland, Guevarra, Stubbs to O's for Bedard

We could have both of those guys for less than what Santana would cost and probably have a better winning record to show for it.

It would be awesome if we could go into the season w/ our projected #2 (Arroyo) moved down to our #4 because our rotation has gotten that much better :-)

AmarilloRed
12-03-2007, 01:33 AM
If I'm WK, I see if BCast will pay for Santana, if so, I offer EdE, Bailey, and Hamilton for him and use the 72-hour window to sign him to a 5yr 25mil per contract... then I go home happy. Although, it might cast the club into some tight financial situations ... what a shot of adrenaline it would be for the Cincy ballclub, fans, and media.

If that doesn't work, then I put the following offers on the table:
EdE, Bailey/Cueto, Janish, Bray to A's for Haren
Hamilton, Maloney, Pelland, Guevarra, Stubbs to O's for Bedard

We could have both of those guys for less than what Santana would cost and probably have a better winning record to show for it.

It would be awesome if we could go into the season w/ our projected #2 (Arroyo) moved down to our #4 because our rotation has gotten that much better :-)

Santana has rejected any trade to a team other than Boston or NY. Haren and Bedard are still possibilities.

AmarilloRed
12-03-2007, 01:41 AM
Bedard Has No Interest In Extension With O's?

According to Dave Sheinin and Barry Svrluga of the Washington Post, Erik Bedard has informed the Orioles that he has no interest in signing an extension. He's under Baltimore's control through the 2009 season.

The authors indicate that Bedard would cost half the talent Johan Santana will. I don't agree with that assertion - two years of a cheap Bedard is easily worth more than one of Santana, without question. If anything, Bedard should require more talent than Santana to pry loose.


If Bedard will not re-sign with Baltimore, it is in the Orioles best interest to trade him. I would immediately look into a trade with the Orioles if I were Krivsky.

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 01:42 AM
Add Bedard and this team is easily favored in the Central and close to being a NL favorite

hippie07
12-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Santana has rejected any trade to a team other than Boston or NY. Haren and Bedard are still possibilities.

Well, WK could still offer, if he blocks the trade ... then on the Bedard and/or Haren!

hippie07
12-03-2007, 10:26 AM
Add Bedard and this team is easily favored in the Central and close to being a NL favorite

I think we'll have the talent to acquire Bedard, but it's just a question of what we'll give up and whether or not we can stomach it.

I'm sure that everyone Wayne talks to is going to demand Bruce, if he makes Bruce untouchable and offers others instead (Hamilton).. then, teams will probably get ticked and move on to the Yanks or Red Sox of the world... it'll be tough to be in WK's position - Bruce being the #1 prospect out there makes things tougher for Wayne because alotta teams demand the best you got or no dice (like Billy Beane). I hope he can pull it off though.

What do you see Wayne giving up for Bedard??

schmidty622
12-03-2007, 10:53 AM
We need to go after a guy like Blanton. Not a pitchers like Haren and Bedard. Those types of pitchers will cost the Reds their future.

hippie07
12-03-2007, 11:02 AM
We need to go after a guy like Blanton. Not a pitchers like Haren and Bedard. Those types of pitchers will cost the Reds their future.

The A's are reportedly asking the same for Blanton as they are for Haren (2 top prospects). I don't disagree, though, Blanton would be nice, but just don't expect him to be much cheaper than Haren.

AmarilloRed
12-03-2007, 12:39 PM
Beane Has High Asking Price For Haren

Did you expect anything different? Billy Beane is happy to field offers on Dan Haren and Joe Blanton, but he'll require a king's ransom for either pitcher. Jayson Stark says Beane asked the Yankees for two of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, and Ian Kennedy for Haren. With the Red Sox it was two of Clay Buchholz, Jon Lester, and Jacoby Ellsbury. The Mets would have to pony up Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. With two starters under contract through 2010, Beane and the A's are sitting pretty.


UPDATE, 12-3-07 at 8:35am: I knew the Red Sox belonged in the mix for Bedard. Jayson Stark confirms their interest, and adds a new one in the Phillies. Stark also verifies that the Orioles want more for Bedard than the Twins want for Santana - as in four top youngsters. Stark's source thinks the Orioles will hang onto Bedard.

It seems a high price will be paid for any of these pitchers-ORG suggests that the Reds would have to trade 2 of either Bailey, Cueto, or Bruce to land Barton or Haren. It would require 4 such prospects to get Bedard. It is something to think about as we start the Winter Meetings.

berryluther
12-03-2007, 12:49 PM
MBTR is reporting the Reds may pursue Dontrel Willis. It may cost them Hamilton and a stud young pitcher.

BEETTLEBUG
12-03-2007, 12:55 PM
go for it

*BaseClogger*
12-03-2007, 12:59 PM
I will loose all faith in WK if he acquires Dontrelle Willis...

hippie07
12-03-2007, 01:01 PM
Hamilton straight up for Willis....? Maybe. No way, if the price is Hamilton & Bailey/Cueto... Absolutely, No way!!! Hamilton & Bailey should land us Bedard, Haren, or Blanton... not a risk like Willis...

Will M
12-03-2007, 01:04 PM
I will likely vomit if the Reds trade Hamilton & Bailey/Cueto for Willis.

Based on his numbers from 2007 his trade value should be more like Freel & an A ball pitcher, not two of our best young prospects.

Blue
12-03-2007, 01:24 PM
I would not mind getting Willis, but I wouldn't want to give up Hamilton to get him. Votto plus a mid-level guy would be fine.

He still has a good arm, just needs to put it all together again.

AmarilloRed
12-03-2007, 01:37 PM
Let's keep in mind that this is all coming from 1 SI reporter who has heard something. It may very well be the Reds are talking to the Marlins about Willis, but it is simply the writer's conjecture about what the Reds would be willing to give up. I dont' think any of the Big 4+ Hamilton should be offered to Florida, unless someone else come back from Florida in addition to Willis.

757690
12-03-2007, 02:07 PM
In the National League, the Reds do not, absolutely do not, have to acquire a big name #1 or #2 pitcher, especially if will cost them any of their top prospects. They have a solid 1-2 punch in Harang and Arroyo, they have two top starting prospects in Bailey and Cueto, both of whom could become #1's, and one of the probably will.

So what they need now is back of the rotation types, that don't cost them their future. There are plenty of them available via free agency or trade. I think it is a waste of valuable resources to get a top of the line pitcher who probably will get hurt in the next few years, at the expense of the Reds young talent.

The Reds can go the World Series this year with the young talent they have, just look at the Rockies 07, White Sox 05, and Marlins 03.

Hondo
12-03-2007, 03:35 PM
I have read the Yankees and Red Sox offers for Santana.

With Krivisky being compentent of the Twins organization, couldn't he work a trade with GM Bill Smith? Offering:

OF Josh Hamilton
RHP Homer Bailey or RHP Johnny Cueto
2 Minor Leaguers

The Twins would be better off Trading him to the National League anyway and not have to face him next year.

JR

LincolnLandReds
12-03-2007, 04:44 PM
Bruce straight up for RICH HARDEN. Not for Dan Haren. Bruce is a premier prospect. I'm reluctant to shop Hamilton until we see a whole season from him - he definitely showed flashed of greatness this year.
I would flip Votto or Cueto and the A's choice of a second prospect (other than the Reds' top 4 guys) for Dan Haren.

I don't understand why everyone is so up to unload Dunn or Hamilton. Yep, we need pitching, no doubt, but we also are looking at Griffey basically done after this year or next, as I believe 2009 is an option year. If you sign Dunn long term, you have an outfield of Dunn, Hamilton & Bruce/Votto if you keep a Cantu or Hatteberg around. So the Reds have some depth, but we have to realize Griffey only has really a year or two left before he is not a Red anymore (sorry to say it, cause of love Griffey, but its like death and taxes, he is close to the sunset of his career, and once he hits 600, the draw for him lowers, unless he just puts together a monster year).

Maybe its a throw a package of Hopper, Hatteberg/Cantu, and two pitchers like Shearn, McBeth, Coffey, and throw Stanton is just because Wayne is a nice guy, in return for a decent starting pitcher. We could always resign Milton dirt cheap with an incentive based contract and see if he can make good on alot of the money he didn't really earn over the past 3 years.

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 06:27 PM
only thing out of the meetings so far is that Cueto is getting a spring training invite

HalMorrisRules
12-03-2007, 07:50 PM
From the ESPN running blog:

6:16 p.m., Jayson Stark
The Reds have asked the Marlins about Dontrelle Willis. But a deal between those two teams is unlikely. The Marlins are still placing a high price tag on Willis, so they no doubt would ask the Reds for their best young pitcher, Homer Bailey, plus one more player. And the Reds have little interest in moving Bailey. One baseball man who spoke to the Reds described their interest as "tire kicking."

7:12 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick
The Reds need pitching, but they don't have a lot of money left after signing closer Francisco Cordero to a five-year deal. So Cincinnati is talking trade with a bunch of teams here in Nashville and using some of its young position players as bait for a starter. Jay Bruce is out of the question, and Joey Votto would be tough to get, but the Reds are listening on third baseman Edwin Encarnacion and center fielder Josh Hamilton. The Cubs are a natural fit for Hamilton, but Sean Marshall isn't likely to get it done. One possible fit for Encarnacion: the Giants, who may need a third baseman if incumbent Pedro Feliz declines the team's salary arbitration offer.

AmarilloRed
12-04-2007, 11:42 AM
The second day starts with the Reds talking to the Orioles, although Bruce is off the table. I will be interested to see how these talks progress

AmarilloRed
12-04-2007, 12:14 PM
Winter Meetings Day II

It seems to me that what the Reds do at the Winter Meetings comes down to this: Do they want a proven starter badly enough to give up Homer Bailey or Jay Bruce?

If they're willing to give up one of those two, they could possibly land one of the big fish out there -- Oakland's Dan Haren, Baltimore's Erik Bedard or Florida's Dontrelle Willis. If the Reds were willing to put Bailey or Bruce in a package, clubs will listen.

It's the classic, present-vs.-future argument. My sense is they would not part with Bruce under almost any circumstance. As for Bailey, if their internal scouting projects him as a No. 1 starter, they'd be silly to trade him. But, if the project him as No. 3 or 4, they might be willing to risk it.

posted by John Fay at 11:05 AM

I think John Fay might be reaching. It would help if the Reds had Bailey or Bruce available to trade, but I am not sure they do.