PDA

View Full Version : Why Tomko?



kyjobu
12-03-2007, 04:48 PM
Why on Earth would the Reds entertain this? Enough of the re-treads and has beens (Or in Tomko's case the never-was). I'd rather see Cueto struggle at the Major League level then Tomko get rocked like usual.

I mean really. This guy is horrible.

Per MLBTR: Brett Tomko's agent met with the Rockies today. Brown says the Pirates, Nationals, Marlins, Reds, and Rangers are after him too. Separately it's been said that the Astros are in on him too. The Padres made a weak $1.5MM offer to Tomko.

AmarilloRed
12-03-2007, 05:03 PM
He is about a league-average #5 starter who can be had pretty cheap. The Reds might think both Bailey and Cueto will not be ready for Cincinnati at the start of the year, so they would be interested in acquiring someone like Tomko for 2008, especially if he will not cost much.

hippie07
12-03-2007, 05:15 PM
Oh wow... why do I get the feeling that this means that the Reds are expecting to trade Bailey and want someone to hold down the #5 until Cueto is ready.....

kyjobu
12-03-2007, 05:18 PM
I don't know about being a league average No. 5 starter. He went 4-12 last year and he has consistently put together bad year after bad year.
I wouldn't even consider him as a fall back if they can't put together a trade. I'd much rather see fall back options of Shawn Chacon, Jon Lieber of Jeff Weaver.

But they aren't likely to come as cheap.

LincolnLandReds
12-03-2007, 05:25 PM
I look at it this way, you pay for what you get. He would be cheap, and he would have us wishing for Kirk Saarloos or Eric Milton back. Let pass and see what else is out there. Maybe Kris Benson or something like that would come along as a better offer.

And why in the world would we trade Homer. Homer will be cheap for us for the next three years, I don't see him going anywhere.

AmarilloRed
12-03-2007, 05:27 PM
He has a career ERA of 4.62. He has been a bullpen pitcher the last 2 years, a unfamiliar role for him. I would not be against the Reds signing him if he would give us a 4.62 ERA as a fifth starter.

ChatterRed
12-03-2007, 05:53 PM
I think Hippie makes a good point. If they're looking for #5 starters, Homer Bailey must be involved in a trade.

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 05:55 PM
He got released by the dodgers last year ... why on earth would we want him.

757690
12-03-2007, 05:59 PM
If he is cheap, sign him. The Reds have zero depth at starting pitcher this year, not even bad options. They don't even have five guys on the roster with major league experience. They need to sign some back of the rotation guys just to fill out the roster.
I am no fan of Tomko, but he is better than nothing, and nothing is what the Reds have now in terms of starting pitching depth.

AmarilloRed
12-03-2007, 09:51 PM
Oh wow... why do I get the feeling that this means that the Reds are expecting to trade Bailey and want someone to hold down the #5 until Cueto is ready.....

Not necessarily. We could have Harang-Arroyo-Belisle-Bailey- Tomko as our starting 5 next year. We will not see Cueto until the All-Star Break at the very earliest. Once Cueto is ready, Belisle or Tomko could go into long relief. I don't think the Reds will trade either Bailey or Cueto unless they are blown away by a trade offer.

HokieRed
12-03-2007, 10:08 PM
Would you rather than Tomko or Shearn in the 5 spot until Cueto is ready?

Doro
12-03-2007, 10:08 PM
I dont see a problem with this at all. Hes not horrible and we didnt spend a ton of money on him nor did we give any of our own players for him. Cueto is not ready and it doesnt necessarily mean Tomko is gunna start anyways, hes worked out of the pen as well.

Vada Pinson Fan
12-03-2007, 10:43 PM
I pass on Brett Tomko. Been there. Done that.

BUTLER REDSFAN
12-03-2007, 11:07 PM
I fart in Brett Tomko's general direction.

SMcGavin
12-03-2007, 11:11 PM
Why Tomko? Because right now he's better than what we have. I don't know why everyone thinks Cueto and Bailey are automatically gonna be fine in the rotation all year long - didn't we see what happened last year with Bailey? If this is cheap (e.g. $2M) I'm cool with it.

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 11:15 PM
Tomko is worse than Milton

*BaseClogger*
12-03-2007, 11:32 PM
Tomko is worse than Milton

Worse overall or in a Reds uni? I think Tomko is a better fit in GABP...

hippie07
12-03-2007, 11:46 PM
Mark Sheldon has the following in his article:

On the free agent front, former Reds pitcher Brett Tomko could be a potential fit. Tomko, most recently with the Padres, recently let Cincinnati know he was interested in returning to the team he broke in with in 1997. So far, there have been no substantial talks.

It may be that Tomko has more interest in the Reds, then they have in him...

SMcGavin
12-03-2007, 11:47 PM
Tomko is worse than Milton

Milton xFIP past three seasons: 5.18, 5.56, 5.52
Tomko xFIP past three seasons: 4.65, 5.03, 4.52

*BaseClogger*
12-03-2007, 11:49 PM
Milton xFIP past three seasons: 5.18, 5.56, 5.52
Tomko xFIP past three seasons: 4.65, 5.03, 4.52

thank you

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 11:51 PM
Worse overall or in a Reds uni? I think Tomko is a better fit in GABP...

He gave up like 1.32 hr/9 pitching the the AL west.

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 11:52 PM
He would be eaten alive in the Central

NorrisHopper30
12-03-2007, 11:53 PM
He would be eaten alive in the Central

I don't know, the Cubs did just sign Cesar Itszuris..

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 11:56 PM
I just dont want to take my chances with Tomko in GABP. Honestly id rather let someone like shearn make starts than deal with Tomko being on the roster.

Bip Roberts
12-03-2007, 11:57 PM
My opinion is if the Dodgers dumped him to add a DFAed David Wells its probably not a good thing.

SMcGavin
12-04-2007, 12:00 AM
I just dont want to take my chances with Tomko in GABP. Honestly id rather let someone like shearn make starts than deal with Tomko being on the roster.

Give me a break, Tomko would be a not very good rotation option, Shearn would be an awful one. It is not a simple distinction between a "good" or a "bad" pitcher. Saving a half run of ERA from your #4 starter is just as good as saving half a run of ERA from your #1.

Bip Roberts
12-04-2007, 12:04 AM
Give me a break, Tomko would be a not very good rotation option, Shearn would be an awful one. It is not a simple distinction between a "good" or a "bad" pitcher. Saving a half run of ERA from your #4 starter is just as good as saving half a run of ERA from your #1.

Tomko had a 5.55 era pitching in the NL west....

kyjobu
12-05-2007, 10:35 AM
Those are some of the biggest parks in the league.

Enough said.

mound_patrol
12-05-2007, 11:10 AM
Would you rather than Tomko or Shearn in the 5 spot until Cueto is ready?

Neither, I let Cueto pitch and take his lumps.

Doro
12-05-2007, 11:50 AM
Neither, I let Cueto pitch and take his lumps.

They called up Tomko too soon and let him take his lumps when he was a young pitcher..... and now your complaining about him.

SMcGavin
12-05-2007, 02:43 PM
Neither, I let Cueto pitch and take his lumps.

The same 21-year-old Cueto who has thrown a grand total of 83 innings above A ball?

Do that and you're betting that all three of Belisle/Bailey/Cueto are healthy and effective all season long. What happens when that fairy tale doesn't come true? Tom Shearn?

mound_patrol
12-05-2007, 04:22 PM
The same 21-year-old Cueto who has thrown a grand total of 83 innings above A ball?

Do that and you're betting that all three of Belisle/Bailey/Cueto are healthy and effective all season long. What happens when that fairy tale doesn't come true? Tom Shearn?

Shearn is a cheaper version of that garbage that is Brett Tomko. Cueto in my opinion is a much more polished pitcher than Bailey is at this time and think he'd be pretty decent in the rotation. I'd rather the Reds sign Clement to a one year deal to give cueto more time. But if it comes down to Tomko, Wells, Rusch, or Shearn my choice is Cueto in the rotation.

*BaseClogger*
12-05-2007, 04:54 PM
Shearn is a cheaper version of that garbage that is Brett Tomko. Cueto in my opinion is a much more polished pitcher than Bailey is at this time and think he'd be pretty decent in the rotation. I'd rather the Reds sign Clement to a one year deal to give cueto more time. But if it comes down to Tomko, Wells, Rusch, or Shearn my choice is Cueto in the rotation.

Left-handed Bobby Livingston? What happened to that guy?

SMcGavin
12-05-2007, 05:40 PM
Shearn is a cheaper version of that garbage that is Brett Tomko. Cueto in my opinion is a much more polished pitcher than Bailey is at this time and think he'd be pretty decent in the rotation. I'd rather the Reds sign Clement to a one year deal to give cueto more time. But if it comes down to Tomko, Wells, Rusch, or Shearn my choice is Cueto in the rotation.

No, Shearn is not the same as Tomko. Tomko has posted xFIPs consistently in the 4.50-5.00 range the past four years. Shearn had an ERA of over 4.00 in AAA last season before coming up to the Reds and posting a 5.65 xFIP that would almost surely get worse once teams saw him a few times and got scouting reports on him. Tomko strikes out more batters and walks fewer.

You also didn't really answer my question, is Shearn your backup plan if (when) one of Belisle, Bailey, or Cueto doesn't pan out?

SMcGavin
12-05-2007, 05:41 PM
Left-handed Bobby Livingston? What happened to that guy?

Torn labrum last year, not expected to be back in 2008 the last I'd heard. It's a shame too, he'd be perfect as a cheap stopgap until the prospects are ready.

hippie07
12-05-2007, 05:42 PM
No, Shearn is not the same as Tomko. Tomko has posted xFIPs consistently in the 4.50-5.00 range the past four years. Shearn had an ERA of over 4.00 in AAA last season before coming up to the Reds and posting a 5.65 xFIP that would almost surely get worse once teams saw him a few times and got scouting reports on him. Tomko strikes out more batters and walks fewer.

You also didn't really answer my question, is Shearn your backup plan if (when) one of Belisle, Bailey, or Cueto doesn't pan out?
Maloney?

SMcGavin
12-05-2007, 05:48 PM
Maloney?

Yea, maybe. His numbers look awfully good, but based on scouting reports I think he's a poor bet to produce at the ML level right now. In my eyes the point of signing a guy like a Tomko is that he's a good bet to throw a decent amount of innings with an ERA a little under 5. Now is that good, not really. But it keeps us from rushing prospects who aren't ready and who could be much worse than that, or using AAA filler like the Shearns and Dumatraits of the world.

I want to keep Cueto and Maloney in AAA until they start dominating and prove they are ready, forcing WK's hand. At that point, you remove the weakest link from the ML rotation and give them a shot. The emergence of guys that young and inexperienced (especially pitchers) shouldn't be counted on, it should just be a bonus when it occurs.

*BaseClogger*
12-05-2007, 09:38 PM
Torn labrum last year, not expected to be back in 2008 the last I'd heard. It's a shame too, he'd be perfect as a cheap stopgap until the prospects are ready.

I have read in ESPN and USA Today that he is expected to be in our opening day rotation, but I would tend to trust you more based on your previous posts...