Reds interested in Lincecum

[OldRed1966]

Reds interested in Lincecum

Cincinnati is apparently interested in San Francisco right-hander Tim Lincecum, but if the Giants insist on Reds outfield prospect Jay Bruce as part of any deal, look for the Reds to back off.

Bruce, 20, hit a combined .319 with 26 homers and 89 RBIs in 133 games at three Minor League stops in 2007. The left-handed hitting Bruce is considered one of the team's cornerstones of the future.


http://wintermeetings.mlblogs.com/nashvilleconfidential/



I wouldn't trade Bruce, but would still pursue other options for Lincecum.

[Bip Roberts]

Wow thats a curve ball

[BucksandReds]

[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't trade Bruce, but would still pursue other options for Lincecum.[/QUOTE]

I'd trade Bailey and an EE type for him though. They need many young guys at many positions. We need a good young starter. That would seem to work out for both. I think that it would be hard to trade a Bailey and Hamilton type. I guess I would trade an EE and Hamilton though, if all they want is offense. If Hamilton does go we'll have a CF issue sooner than later. He may have reached peak trade value, however in which case you should trade him.

[SeeinRed]

Isn't it great that even though these rumors are probably not all even close to true, that the Reds are finally being mentioned in them. I can't remember a year that the hot stove was so active with Reds rumors. Its just amazing.

[Bip Roberts]

Id rather keep edwin and bailey than trade both for lincecum.

I dont like the idea of trading one pitching prospect for another

[ChatterRed]

I'd trade Bailey and Hamilton right now for Lincecum.

[BucksandReds]

Id rather keep edwin and bailey than trade both for lincecum.

I dont like the idea of trading one pitching prospect for another

Lincecum, although young, is much further along as a PRO than Bailey. I get your point, however.

[Bip Roberts]

Lincecum, although young, is much further along as a PRO than Bailey. I get your point, however.

i wouldnt say he was that much farther along really but even so i couldnt imagine giving up 2 guys to get 1 prospect

[AdamDunn]

I'd trade Bailey and Hamilton right now for Lincecum.

Why? Wait a year and Bailey will be just as good or better than Lincecum. Just because another team has a player, doesn't mean they are better than what the Reds have (aka, it's not always greener on the other side of the hill).

[ChatterRed]

Why? Wait a year and Bailey will be just as good or better than Lincecum. Just because another team has a player, doesn't mean they are better than what the Reds have (aka, it's not always greener on the other side of the hill).

Well now we're in the land of opinion.

I'm not sold on Bailey. In fact, I'm in the camp that thinks he might be worth more right now in terms of hype than how he will turn out as a pro. I see FAR MORE in Tim Lincecum. Lincecum had 24 games started this year and here is his stats.......very good and far better than Bailey's debut:

Record 7-5, 146 IP, 122 hits, 12 HR's, 150 K's, 65 BB's, 4.00 era, 1.28 WHIP, .226 BAA

Far more impressive than Bailey's numbers. In 24 starts, Lincecum's average start (factoring 24 starts into 146 innings pitched) is 6.08 innings per start. Bailey was lucky to get through the 5th inning. Then there's the cheap factor. Doesn't come any cheaper than this guy and you'd have him under your control for longer. You trade one top starting pitching prospect (top 10 at that) in Bailey for another top young starting pitching prospect - Lincecum. And if you have to throw in more, you throw in Hamilton to get the deal done because you have Bruce ready to step in.

I'd do it in a heartbeat. It might be too much, but I'd blow them away with the offer.

[hippie07]

Not much for trading our pitching prospect for another teams prospect - Hamilton for Linecum - I'd do. Hamilton & Maloney and others, might entice them.

[ChatterRed]

Homer Bailey's stats:

4-2 record, 45 IP, 43 hits, 28 walks, 28 k's, 5.76 era, 1.57 WHIP, .257 BAA

In 9 starts, made it through the 6th inning only twice.

[Dracodave]

I give up a lone person for him, swapping deck chairs between him and Bailey. Hamilton for Lincecum might get me going nice trade, but Im not sure I'd give up Hamilton for him either.

[REDblooded]

insane. Lincecum is a beast, and is ready to produce NOW. I'd take him for Bailey and Hamilton and wouldn't blink.

[hippie07]

Reds Interested In Tim Lincecum
According to MLB.com's Jim Molony, the Reds are interested in the Giants' Tim Lincecum (who isn't). Molony says the Reds won't include Jay Bruce in any deal, however. Why inquire then? Why would the Giants give up their best player for anything less than the Reds' top prospect? I guess it didn't hurt to ask.

At any rate, it's cool to see teams actually talking about even swaps of young players to fill their needs. So many trades these days are really just poor teams dumping off expensive stars to the rich ones.

MLBTR guy makes a good point ... Lincecum is a stellar pitching prospect, and Bruce is a stellar position prospect....

Reds have enough position/hitting talent, we need pitching talent. What really would be the harm in a Lincecum for Bruce deal. It's almost an even swap from both team's perspective - Bruce is our crown jewel and Lincecum is the Giants'..... the reason for the swap is that we need pitching and the Giants need young position players....

I would work real hard to make it Hamilton instead of Bruce, but if it had to be Bruce I wouldn't be terribly upset.

Check out Lincecum's minor league numbers - he dominated the minors ... much more dominating than even Bailey.

[Bip Roberts]

I dont like our OF situation after next season enough to feel comfortable trading Bruce.

[HBP]

How about Votto, Bill Bray, and Drew Stubbs? I doubt Bray has that much value right now though.

[hippie07]

I dont like our OF situation after next season enough to feel comfortable trading Bruce.

Can you elaborate on that?...

I think the Reds will sign Dunn, and Hamilton can take over in Right .... I'm okay w/ Hopper being in CF mainly for his defense or the Reds could try to acquire a good defensive CFer..... I don't have fear for our outfield at all ....
We could move Votto to LF on the off-chance Dunn doesn't sign. As long as we keep 2 of (Votto, Hamilton, Bruce, Dunn) then I think we'll be fine...

I mean how many LH power outfielders can we have!!!

[Bip Roberts]

Can you elaborate on that?...

I think the Reds will sign Dunn, and Hamilton can take over in Right .... I'm okay w/ Hopper being in CF mainly for his defense or the Reds could try to acquire a good defensive CFer..... I don't have fear for our outfield at all ....
We could move Votto to LF on the off-chance Dunn doesn't sign. As long as we keep 2 of (Votto, Hamilton, Bruce, Dunn) then I think we'll be fine...

I mean how many LH power outfielders can we have!!!

I dont trust Hamilton on being healthy enough yet, and I dont know on if Dunn will be back.

Id hate to go into 09 with our OF options being Hopper, a possibly often injured Hamilton, and who knows in left/right.

I dont like hopper being a every day player, and moving Votto to LF would just move a hole in the field somewhere else.

[mlbfan30]

Hamilton + extra is a very good trade for Lincecum
Bruce for Lincecum + extra is in reality close to fair
Votto + EE for Lincecum is close to fair

I think a Hamilton + EE + extra (Stubbs?) might be even for both sides. The giants need a 3B and could use a good youngish power hitting OF to replace Bonds. Giants have depth at SP.
Imagine a 1-2-3-4 of Harang/Lincecum/Bailey/Cueto..... While controlling Lincecum/Bailey/Cueto for 5-6 years.

[hippie07]

Hamilton + extra is a very good trade for Lincecum
Bruce for Lincecum + extra is in reality close to fair
Votto + EE for Lincecum is close to fair

I think a Hamilton + EE + extra (Stubbs?) might be even for both sides. The giants need a 3B and could use a good youngish power hitting OF to replace Bonds. Giants have depth at SP.
Imagine a 1-2-3-4 of Harang/Lincecum/Bailey/Cueto..... While controlling Lincecum/Bailey/Cueto for 5-6 years.

Great post!

We could actually have Harang, Lincecum, Bailey, Cueto, Arroyo as a 1-5 in 2009. Considering you have potentially 4 aces on that staff.... that's just crazy! We'd have an embarassment of solid pitching... in Cincy.. who would've dreamed it :cool:

[Homer Bailey]

How about we just draft Lincecum.... Oh wait we took stubbs.... so now we have to give up 2 starters to get him back...

thats right i forgot....

[mlbfan30]

Yup, Reds should have drafted Lincecum, and it was a stupid move. But that's the past now. If the Reds can get him while keeping the big 4, then they need to do it.

[hippie07]

Evidently Votto & EdE is picking up steam w/ both org, SF fansites, and rotoworld.

The suggestion is that Votto, EdE, and Roenicke might do it ...

I'd offer Hamilton, Kepp, & Roenicke ... and see what they think... :)

[REDblooded]

who plays third if the Reds move EE? Also, who is available to hit from the right side?

[Bip Roberts]

who plays third if the Reds move EE? Also, who is available to hit from the right side?

id imagine they would give Keppinger and Freel a decent portion of the playing time.

[UPRedsFan]

Big, big question needs to be answered by the experts!

Will Lincecum's arm last with those violent mechanics?

I'd hate to give up Hamilton, Votto, or EE and then have to pay for Tommy John or rotator cuff surgery!

But I love the thought of aquiring someone like him without having to give up Bailey or Cueto. SF might be the ideal trading partner because they are hurting so badly for offense and wouldn't require Bailey or Cueto in return. We have offense to spare!

[jmac]

Isn't it great that even though these rumors are probably not all even close to true, that the Reds are finally being mentioned in them. I can't remember a year that the hot stove was so active with Reds rumors. Its just amazing.

I have been thinking same thing. :)

[Blue]

Big, big question needs to be answered by the experts!

Will Lincecum's arm last with those violent mechanics?

I'd hate to give up Hamilton, Votto, or EE and then have to pay for Tommy John or rotator cuff surgery!

But I love the thought of aquiring someone like him without having to give up Bailey or Cueto. SF might be the ideal trading partner because they are hurting so badly for offense and wouldn't require Bailey or Cueto in return. We have offense to spare!

IIRC, he was shut down at the end of last season due to a tender shoulder.

[AmarilloRed]

:12 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick
• The Reds need pitching, but they don't have a lot of money left after signing closer Francisco Cordero to a five-year deal. So Cincinnati is talking trade with a bunch of teams here in Nashville and using some of its young position players as bait for a starter. Jay Bruce is out of the question, and Joey Votto would be tough to get, but the Reds are listening on third baseman Edwin Encarnacion and center fielder Josh Hamilton.

I don't think the Reds are considering trading either Votto or Bruce. I think they are using both Hamilton and Edwin as trade bait to land another starter.

[Vada Pinson Fan]

I'd trade Bailey and Hamilton right now for Lincecum.

Think of what your saying in a different light-

Why trade 2 Corvettes to get 1 Corvette in return?

I don't trade both of those guys together in any (1) deal.
The Reds can't mortgage their future (years) buy overpaying. Remember the three #1 draft choices Krivsky traded to the Nationals? Look what that got us... You've got to be the better poker player when dealing with the other GM's.

Look what Steinbrenner's son told the Twins, which was basically the Twins have until Monday, Dec.10th, to accept the Yankees offer for Santana. He's just posturing. Trying to put pressure on Minnesota. Krivsky doesn't need to make ultimatums, but play his Ace high hand like it's a full house.
Hamilton is our Ace (available at the winter meeting). We should not trade any of our other Aces.

Lincecum doesn't merit the talent haul that Kazmir or Bedard would. Even then, I don't give away "the farm".

[ChatterRed]

What can I say, dude. I'm just a good judge of talent and have some psychic ability to look into the future.........and my gut tells me that Hamilton will be chronically injured and has a chance of regressing back into drugs and alcohol.......and that Bailey will never be as good as Lincecum.

Just my opinion. And I want to get San Fran to the table and be ahead of all the other suitors. If we can get him straight up for Bailey, then do it. But they're looking for a bunch of prospects because they have alot of holes to fill. So maybe you don't trade Hamilton and Bailey. Personally, I like Cueto better than Bailey. Maybe you trade Hamilton, and some other decent prospects, but I just don't think they'll go for it.

I think WK asks every club if they'll trade their number 2 starter and then ask what they want in return. The one that wants the least is where the deal will be made, simply put. So I think it will come down to which team wants Hamilton the most and the Reds will take that teams #2 starter if it is a decent #2.

[Doro]

Big surprise.... every team in baseball would be interested in Lincecum. I would trade Bruce for him in a heartbeat because if I have learned anything from being a Reds fan its doesnt matter what kinda bats you have..... its the pitchers.

Would definately not do Bailey and Hamilton for him. He has better stuff than Bailey but is definately gunna end up as a reliever because how much he gives on every pitch. I think Bailey has a little better chance as succeeding as a starter.

[AmarilloRed]

Giants' young aces might be off limits
GM Sabean growing weary of Cain, Lincecum queries
By Chris Haft / MLB.com


NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Whether the Giants inched toward completing a deal at baseball's Winter Meetings was uncertain, although they definitely moved closer to ruling out trading Matt Cain or Tim Lincecum.

Trading either of the prized right-handers would fetch the Giants a hitter or two they could plug into their batting order, which has glaring vacancies in the 3-4-5 spots. Baltimore's Miguel Tejada, whom the Giants have discussed, would help fill that void. But general manager Brian Sabean said Monday as the Meetings began that the deals they're seriously considering don't involve Cain or Lincecum, the 23-year-olds regarded as potential staff aces.

"I don't see traction right now with either one of those names. We haven't been blown away yet," Sabean said, adding that he's "getting close" to declaring Cain and Lincecum off the market -- which he hasn't definitively done.

Sabean pointed out that the mere inclusion of Cain and Lincecum in trade rumors could be counterproductive for the Giants, whose last-place finish in 2007 has prompted them to field numerous proposals for the sake of upgrading the roster.

"In some ways, to have them in play at all just from the listening standpoint may in fact be inhibiting some of the other business we could do," Sabean said. "Because if somebody holds out hope that they can get one of those particular pitchers, that kind of detours you away from other conversations we could be having."

Sabean acknowledged that one team made an "interesting" proposal for Lincecum. "But I don't know if it's something we're going to pursue," Sabean said.

That proposal, Sabean said, was not linked to a potential deal for Florida third baseman Miguel Cabrera, the most imposing hitter available in trade. This indicated that the Giants are not among the leading suitors for the four-time All-Star.

And the rumored blockbuster that swept the Gaylord Opryland Resort & Convention Center -- Lincecum for Cincinnati outfielder Jay Bruce, the 2007 Minor League Player of the Year -- was pure fiction, a Giants official said. Three industry sources, none associated with the Giants, fanned the flames of that rumor, with one declaring that he "heard it from the horse's mouth."

It seems this was just a false rumor, and it seems unlikely the Giants would be willing to trade Linceum or Cain.

[Bip Roberts]

Call me crazy but Lincecum being 5'10" kinda scares me.

[markymark69]

Bip,

What is your point? Johnny Cueto is listed at 5-10 and is probably shorter than that and and there are not too many people on here (perhaps yourself included) that would want to trade him.

[Bip Roberts]

Bip,

What is your point? Johnny Cueto is listed at 5-10 and is probably shorter than that and and there are not too many people on here (perhaps yourself included) that would want to trade him.

My point is not many guys the size of Cueto and Lincecum last in the majors.

[Simms11]

My point is not many guys the size of Cueto and Lincecum last in the majors.

Pedro Martinez and his one extra inch says hello...

[RedsFanWC]

Giants' young aces might be off limits
GM Sabean growing weary of Cain, Lincecum queries
By Chris Haft / MLB.com


NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Whether the Giants inched toward completing a deal at baseball's Winter Meetings was uncertain, although they definitely moved closer to ruling out trading Matt Cain or Tim Lincecum.

Trading either of the prized right-handers would fetch the Giants a hitter or two they could plug into their batting order, which has glaring vacancies in the 3-4-5 spots. Baltimore's Miguel Tejada, whom the Giants have discussed, would help fill that void. But general manager Brian Sabean said Monday as the Meetings began that the deals they're seriously considering don't involve Cain or Lincecum, the 23-year-olds regarded as potential staff aces.

"I don't see traction right now with either one of those names. We haven't been blown away yet," Sabean said, adding that he's "getting close" to declaring Cain and Lincecum off the market -- which he hasn't definitively done.

Sabean pointed out that the mere inclusion of Cain and Lincecum in trade rumors could be counterproductive for the Giants, whose last-place finish in 2007 has prompted them to field numerous proposals for the sake of upgrading the roster.

"In some ways, to have them in play at all just from the listening standpoint may in fact be inhibiting some of the other business we could do," Sabean said. "Because if somebody holds out hope that they can get one of those particular pitchers, that kind of detours you away from other conversations we could be having."

Sabean acknowledged that one team made an "interesting" proposal for Lincecum. "But I don't know if it's something we're going to pursue," Sabean said.

That proposal, Sabean said, was not linked to a potential deal for Florida third baseman Miguel Cabrera, the most imposing hitter available in trade. This indicated that the Giants are not among the leading suitors for the four-time All-Star.

And the rumored blockbuster that swept the Gaylord Opryland Resort & Convention Center -- Lincecum for Cincinnati outfielder Jay Bruce, the 2007 Minor League Player of the Year -- was pure fiction, a Giants official said. Three industry sources, none associated with the Giants, fanned the flames of that rumor, with one declaring that he "heard it from the horse's mouth."

It seems this was just a false rumor, and it seems unlikely the Giants would be willing to trade Linceum or Cain.

It sounds like Sabean is annoyed that no one is beating down his door to offer up young position player talent for Noah Lowry. I mean who wouldnt want a guy who walked as many guys as he struckout (87 in 156 innings) and had a WHIP over 1.5. If Sabean wants the Giants to score over 600 runs next year he will have to trade Lincecum or Cain. They scored 683 last year and that was with Bonds in the lineup for 126 games.

Krivsky should just be patient, Sabean will cave.

[bounty37h]

[QUOTE=AmarilloRed;1507904]:12 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick
• The Reds need pitching, but they don't have a lot of money left after signing closer Francisco Cordero to a five-year deal. So Cincinnati is talking trade with a bunch of teams here in Nashville and using some of its young position players as bait for a starter. Jay Bruce is out of the question, and Joey Votto would be tough to get, but the Reds are listening on third baseman Edwin Encarnacion and center fielder Josh Hamilton.

I dont buy that, they have money left, its a matter of will they spend it. I hate the Yanks and the way they get all the free agents, signings, trades, etc., but they are that way because George will spend the money on em to put them in that situation.

[ChatterRed]

[QUOTE=AmarilloRed;1507904]:12 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick
• The Reds need pitching, but they don't have a lot of money left after signing closer Francisco Cordero to a five-year deal. So Cincinnati is talking trade with a bunch of teams here in Nashville and using some of its young position players as bait for a starter. Jay Bruce is out of the question, and Joey Votto would be tough to get, but the Reds are listening on third baseman Edwin Encarnacion and center fielder Josh Hamilton.

I dont buy that, they have money left, its a matter of will they spend it. I hate the Yanks and the way they get all the free agents, signings, trades, etc., but they are that way because George will spend the money on em to put them in that situation.

.......because George has the money to spend. I'm not saying the Reds couldn't spend $90 million or maybe a little more and still be fiscally sound.......but they can't spend $180 million like the Yanks and BoSox.

[AmarilloRed]

One Reds official think the Giants almost have to trade Tim Lincecum to build an offensive core. It seems the Mariners and Reds in particular are pushing for Lincecum. The Ms could offer Adam Jones; the Reds have Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, and Josh Hamilton. The Mariners could've had Lincecum with the fifth overall pick in 2006, but opted for Brandon Morrow instead. The Reds could've had him too but went for Drew Stubbs.

It seems this trade is not quite dead yet; the Reds are still pushing really hard to land Linceum.

[hippie07]

[QUOTE=bounty37h;1508221]

.......because George has the money to spend. I'm not saying the Reds couldn't spend $90 million or maybe a little more and still be fiscally sound.......but they can't spend $180 million like the Yanks and BoSox.

The Yanks and BoSox spend more than the Reds, that's true, but its not just that - the Yanks and BoSox spend a much higher percentage of their revenue on player payroll than do the Reds. Now, there may be a fiscally-sound reason for that, but to me its suspect. I think the Reds would be ran alot differently if we had an owner like George... maybe BCast is more in that vein than was Lindner, I hope so.

[hippie07]

Okay, opinion poll:
Assume for the moment that WK is dead set on acquiring Lincecum, what would you rather see traded for him?
I think the following are deals the Giants would accept:
Bruce for Lincecum
EdE/Hamilton, Votto, Roenicke for Lincecum

Tough call, but we have to remember, if we're going to acquire Lincecum it's REALLY going to hurt.

[Bip Roberts]

Pedro Martinez and his one extra inch says hello...

Sweet thanks for the input.

[Jr's Boy]

I love to watch the kid pitch,and a nasty 12-6 curve.His body is like a rubber band when he throws.Really fun to watch.

[SMcGavin]

Okay, opinion poll:
Assume for the moment that WK is dead set on acquiring Lincecum, what would you rather see traded for him?
I think the following are deals the Giants would accept:
Bruce for Lincecum
EdE/Hamilton, Votto, Roenicke for Lincecum

Tough call, but we have to remember, if we're going to acquire Lincecum it's REALLY going to hurt.

The second one, if its EE/Votto/Roenicke, I do that. Hamilton/Votto/Roenicke I don't know. Bruce, probably not. Lincecum is great and it's cool that we are even talking about acquiring him.

[Simms11]

Sweet thanks for the input.

Hey don't get upset because someone called you out and brought some facts to the table rather than guessing about length of stay as a pitcher...:rolleyes:

[Bip Roberts]

Hey don't get upset because someone called you out and brought some facts to the table rather than guessing about length of stay as a pitcher...:rolleyes:

Called me out? Did you even read my post?

[Stephenk29]

Pedro Martinez and his one extra inch says hello...

You can't bring the example of one total freak of nature.

Some examples that come to mind otherwise Jared Wright, Scott Williamson, Mike Hampton so on and so on

[Caveman Techie]

Mario Soto says hi too.

How many freaks of nature would we have to present as evidence before a myth is debunked? Until a few years ago the common knowledge was that tall pitchers couldn't be effective because they were too lanky to be able to ever gain control of their pitches. Then along comes this guy named Randy Johnson and low and behold everyone wanted the tall 6' 5" + pitchers.

Me personnaly I'll go with talent over a tape messure. Pitching mechanics are way more important to a pitchers long term health projections than his height is. Scott Williamson was an example of horrible mechanics, and he refussed to try to correct them.

[Simms11]

Mario Soto says hi too.

How many freaks of nature would we have to present as evidence before a myth is debunked? Until a few years ago the common knowledge was that tall pitchers couldn't be effective because they were too lanky to be able to ever gain control of their pitches. Then along comes this guy named Randy Johnson and low and behold everyone wanted the tall 6' 5" + pitchers.

Me personnaly I'll go with talent over a tape messure. Pitching mechanics are way more important to a pitchers long term health projections than his height is. Scott Williamson was an example of horrible mechanics, and he refussed to try to correct them.

Billy Wagner would like to join this conversation too...next?

[ChatterRed]

......so would Devan Downey!

Oops, wrong sport.

[Blue]

Okay, opinion poll:
Assume for the moment that WK is dead set on acquiring Lincecum, what would you rather see traded for him?
I think the following are deals the Giants would accept:
Bruce for Lincecum
EdE/Hamilton, Votto, Roenicke for Lincecum

Tough call, but we have to remember, if we're going to acquire Lincecum it's REALLY going to hurt.

Based on the Alex Rios for Tim Lincecum rumors, it shouldn't take that much. I don't think I'd do either of those. Hamilton alone should get it done.

[ChatterRed]

........from what I hear, the Reds have been talking to both the Orioles and A's, but look for a deal with the Rays to actually take place. Tampa is looking to get a little less, thinking they will get some of the players that the A's and Orioles actually want.........which will lower the playing field for those other teams looking for more.

[*BaseClogger*]

........from what I hear, the Reds have been talking to both the Orioles and A's, but look for a deal with the Rays to actually take place. Tampa is looking to get a little less, thinking they will get some of the players that the A's and Orioles actually want.........which will lower the playing field for those other teams looking for more.

Does this trade you forsee with the Rays include Crawford?:D

[hippie07]

........from what I hear, the Reds have been talking to both the Orioles and A's, but look for a deal with the Rays to actually take place. Tampa is looking to get a little less, thinking they will get some of the players that the A's and Orioles actually want.........which will lower the playing field for those other teams looking for more.

I'm sorry, but can you re-explain this... I've read it 3 times and my brain flipped upside down... how would Rays taking less and bringing down the price for other teams helps the Rays?