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jmble
12-04-2007, 11:36 AM
Didn't see this anywhere yet, so sorry if it's posted in another thread.

From mlbtraderumors.com


UPDATE, 12-4-07 at 9:32am: The Mets are still hawking Gomez, trying to get Bedard. Joel Sherman adds the Tigers to the list of teams after Bedard, bringing the total to ten. He says the Tigers and Phils are getting creative trying to get Bedard.

FROM 12-4-07 at 8:45am:

How many teams are after Erik Bedard? The tally yesterday included the Phillies, Cardinals, Yankees, Mets, Mariners, Angels, Dodgers, and D'Backs - that's eight. The Baltimore Sun's Jeff Zrebiec and Dan Connolly check in with the latest on the Orioles' ace.

There's been a ton of trade interest in Bedard (as you might expect). Andy MacPhail is still talking about signing him to an extension, but no one really buys it. The package he'll get in trade should rival what the Twins get for Johan.
The Dodgers, Mariners, and Mets have been pursuing Bedard the most aggressively. More meetings with the Mets should occur today. The Mariners could make an intriguing offer built around Adam Jones and Brandon Morrow.
A new team is added to bring the tally to nine: the Reds are interested. However, Jay Bruce is off the table.

Dracodave
12-04-2007, 11:45 AM
Didn't see this anywhere yet, so sorry if it's posted in another thread.

From mlbtraderumors.com

Good call on denying Bruce!!! Now, be stingy and offer Hamilton and someone for him..sign him LT ASAP and I'm happy.

hippie07
12-04-2007, 12:13 PM
For some reason, I feel like WK is targeting those pitchers that he wouldn't have to give up Bailey/Cueto like Cain/Linecum, or someone that he can trade Hamilton straight up for.. which I don't really have a problem w/...

It would probably take Hamilton, EdE, Cueto/Bailey... at least ... I still want him though

Dracodave
12-04-2007, 12:16 PM
For some reason, I feel like WK is targeting those pitchers that he wouldn't have to give up Bailey/Cueto like Cain/Linecum, or someone that he can trade Hamilton straight up for.. which I don't really have a problem w/...

It would probably take Hamilton, EdE, Cueto/Bailey... at least ... I still want him though

Right, I agree with that. Trade a package of secondary talent to recieve a top notch talent. Or elite talent (Hamilton) for top notch talent. Dont overspend but get the player wanted.

AmarilloRed
12-04-2007, 12:38 PM
Winter meetings
O's Bedard a wanted man
As contract talks with Orioles cool, interest from around majors heats up
Erik Bedard

With the Twins' Johan Santana unavailable to most teams, Erik Bedard (above) is viewed as the next best thing. (AP photo / July 2, 2007)

By Jeff Zrebiec and Dan Connolly | Sun reporters
December 4, 2007

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - With Minnesota Twins ace Johan Santana reportedly headed to either the New York Yankees or Boston Red Sox, Orioles left-hander Erik Bedard has become the most coveted pitcher at baseball's winter meetings.

Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail spent yesterday meeting with several clubs, and Bedard - as well as shortstop Miguel Tejada to a lesser extent - was the dominant topic of conversation. MacPhail declined to specify how many teams have expressed interest in the 28-year-old pitcher, but one team source said calls about Bedard were coming in "left and right."

"There has been a lot of activity on him," said MacPhail, who has identified several teams who he believes have enough talented young players in order to consummate a deal.



MacPhail's recent acknowledgment that contract extension talks with Bedard have "cooled" has led to an increase in interest on Bedard, team officials say. However, MacPhail has made it clear to suitors that the Orioles are still exploring extending Bedard to a long-term deal and might not trade him.

MacPhail and Mark Pieper, Bedard's agent, denied media reports that the pitcher has informed the club he is set on becoming a free agent after the 2009 season and will not sign an extension with the Orioles.

"That's not what the agent told me," MacPhail said. "I did characterize the conversations as having cooled. I think things could heat up again. There hasn't been a 'we're out' type of thing."

Pieper declined to discuss reasons the talks stalled, but he confirmed he didn't tell MacPhail he isn't interested in further dialogue.

"I can't really tell you what's going to happen," said Pieper. "All I know is that [report] is just not true. [Bedard] wants to keep his options open, and he hasn't ruled anything out."

The Los Angeles Dodgers, Seattle Mariners and New York Mets have been the most aggressive in pursuit of Bedard. MacPhail and Mets general manager Omar Minaya talked by phone yesterday and could meet today about Bedard. The Mets already have offered outfielder Carlos Gomez, reliever Aaron Heilman and pitching prospect Phil Humber but were rejected.

One baseball source called the Mariners a "dark horse" in the Bedard sweepstakes if they would be willing to put together an offer that included outfield prospect Adam Jones and pitcher Brandon Morrow.

The Cincinnati Reds also are interested in Bedard but aren't willing to discuss top outfield prospect Jay Bruce.

At this point, the Orioles are looking for an offer - similar if not better - to what the Twins are requesting from the Yankees and Red Sox for Santana, a two-time Cy Young winner. That is basically two top-quality, ready-to-play young major leaguers and a third prospect.

Although he is not as accomplished as Santana, Bedard has less mileage (barely half the number of big league innings), is the same age (eight days older than Santana), is cheaper and is signed through 2009, a year longer than Santana.

One major league general manager said Bedard's value was "less than Santana, but not by much."

And Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said Bedard may not be Santana, but he'd still be a welcome addition.

"I don't think any pitcher in baseball is going to have value like Santana - not this year and not in the next couple years," Guillen said. "With his name on the [trade] map, nobody is close to him. But when you talk about Bedard, you talk about the best left-handers in baseball, not just the American League. He has to be in the top three to five guys. His value is pretty high, a lot of people talk about him and we all like him."

The Orioles also met yesterday with the St. Louis Cardinals to discuss a potential deal with Tejada. It doesn't appear to be a good fit because the Cardinals aren't interested in moving outfield prospect Colby Rasmus and their farm system is relatively thin.

MacPhail met with the San Francisco Giants about Tejada but apparently didn't make any progress. The Houston Astros and Angels also are interested.

The Chicago Cubs have expressed interested in second baseman Brian Roberts, but the talks haven't progressed too far, according to an industry source.

The club is exploring several free-agent relievers. The Orioles had talks with the agent for reliever David Riske but dropped out when learning his price tag.

jeff.zrebiec@baltsun.com dan.connolly@baltsun.com


Based on this , we would need to trade 2 young major leaguers and a third prospect to land Bedard. I imagine we would need to give up 2 of Votto, Hamilton, Encarcion, or Bailey and a third prospect probably from AAA.

Bigredfan#1
12-04-2007, 12:57 PM
For some reason, I feel like WK is targeting those pitchers that he wouldn't have to give up Bailey/Cueto like Cain/Linecum, or someone that he can trade Hamilton straight up for.. which I don't really have a problem w/...

It would probably take Hamilton, EdE, Cueto/Bailey... at least ... I still want him though

I agree, SP are a premiium and to give up potential stars is a risky business. All it takes is an injury and we are down pitchers! Just like we are now. Trade for what you can but do not give up Bailey or Cueto! I don't want to see Bruce gone either. I would love to see Bedard or Cain or Lincecum in a Red's uni but not at the high price of our young SPs.

ChatterRed
12-04-2007, 01:12 PM
Bedard and Tejeda plus part of Tejeda's salary to the Reds for EE, Bailey, Majewski, Coffey, and others.

hippie07
12-04-2007, 01:37 PM
Bedard and Tejeda plus part of Tejeda's salary to the Reds for EE, Bailey, Majewski, Coffey, and others.

It would be nice to have a RH bat and I would love to plug Tejeda in at cleanup for a couple years (even though he's said to be declining defensively), but it would take much for talent than you're offering

It would prob take Hamilton, EdE, Bailey just for Bedard.
Hamilton, Cueto, 2nd tier prospect for Bedard.
EdE, Maloney, Bray for Tejada....

Even that probably doesn't get it done ... but its fun to guesstimate ;)

kbrake
12-04-2007, 01:43 PM
Bedard and Tejeda plus part of Tejeda's salary to the Reds for EE, Bailey, Majewski, Coffey, and others.

Edwin and Bailey wouldnt get us Bedard alone much less throwing in crap to get Tejada.

AmarilloRed
12-04-2007, 02:51 PM
Edwin and Bailey wouldnt get us Bedard alone much less throwing in crap to get Tejada.

Based on my article earlier in this thread, it would seem that 2 young, top-quality, major league ready players and a third prospect would land Bedard. Edwin and Bailey wouldn't do it, but add a third prospect and it might get done. You might have to substitute Hamilton for Edwin, however.

Redus
12-04-2007, 03:08 PM
The Reds are in the mix on Bedard as much as Im in the mix for Alba....I'll believe it when I see him in a Reds uniform

AmarilloRed
12-04-2007, 03:10 PM
They are one of 10 teams talking to the Orioles about Bedard.

flash
12-04-2007, 03:22 PM
I think the Reds could land him for EE, Hamilton, Maloney and Dickerson. According to the O's website they want 4 prospects who either are ready, or have major league experience. I don't like to give up Maloney, but it might be necessary. The Reds should not give up either Cueto or Bailey at this point. They shouldn't really consider Pelland or Viola at this point either.

AmarilloRed
12-04-2007, 03:27 PM
11:25 a.m., from Amy Nelson

• Teams inquiring about Erik Bedard have been told that it's going to take a superior package of prospects, and the Orioles are telling clubs they already have four teams with very promising packages.

Ahhhorsepoo
12-04-2007, 03:31 PM
I have been told that shutting down Cueto COULD have been for reasons other than just getting an invite to spring training..

hippie07
12-04-2007, 03:36 PM
I have been told that shutting down Cueto COULD have been for reasons other than just getting an invite to spring training..

If so, why would the Reds announce it at a "trading conference" that just drives the price for pitching, IMO. What's your source?

Ahhhorsepoo
12-04-2007, 03:40 PM
some rumblings.. same people who told me at the end of the year that they would be shopping votto, hamilton, and EdE the most...

I would think the other teams would look at this and say.. well we know he will be very rested for our spring training.....

believe what you want.. i am just telling you what i am hearing.. doesnt mean a trade is for sure going to happen.. just means in their opinion based on their conversations it might have been driven by other things.. either cueto is moving.. soo they want his arm rested.. or they might be moving another pitcher and want cueto to be rested for them.. just telling you what i heard..

hippie07
12-04-2007, 03:40 PM
The only was I see us getting Bedard or Haren is if we include Bailey and the only way I see us including Bailey is if we get Lincecum... so, I don't know.

If the O's would take Hamilton, Cueto, and others then maybe.... or maybe if they give us a better deal if we also take on Tejada's salary... I just don't know, but I don't think the Bedard deal gets done until after the Santana deal, because I think the losers of that deal will go crazy to get Bedard (aka Yankees).

hippie07
12-04-2007, 03:43 PM
some rumblings.. same people who told me at the end of the year that they would be shopping votto, hamilton, and EdE the most...

I would think the other teams would look at this and say.. well we know he will be very rested for our spring training.....

believe what you want.. i am just telling you what i am hearing.. doesnt mean a trade is for sure going to happen.. just means in their opinion based on their conversations it might have been driven by other things.. either cueto is moving.. soo they want his arm rested.. or they might be moving another pitcher and want cueto to be rested for them.. just telling you what i heard..


Okay... okay .... I completely misunderstood your implication - I thought you were implying that it was for health reasons :yikes:

REDblooded
12-04-2007, 03:51 PM
after seeing on ESPN that the Jays were shopping Rios for Lincecum, what would you guys think of something along the lines of a Hamilton/Lotzkar (canadian)/Maloney offer for Rios?

Redsnake
12-04-2007, 04:02 PM
after seeing on ESPN that the Jays were shopping Rios for Lincecum, what would you guys think of something along the lines of a Hamilton/Lotzkar (canadian)/Maloney offer for Rios?

Why would the Reds need another outfielder if the were trying to unload one of there own? I thought the Reds were looking for pitching?

ChatterRed
12-04-2007, 04:04 PM
Okay... okay .... I completely misunderstood your implication - I thought you were implying that it was for health reasons :yikes:


I did too. He wasn't very clear.

bigredbunter
12-04-2007, 04:11 PM
Reds go get Bedard by offering Bailey, Stubbs, Maloney & Votto
Reds turn around and go get Santana by offering Bruce, Cueto, Ed. E.
If they're going to mortgage the farm, let's rack up the bills and get a World Series.

jmble
12-04-2007, 04:13 PM
Update on Bedard from ESPN


2:56 p.m. ET, from Amy Nelson
ē The Orioles and Dodgers may be close on a deal that will send left-hander Erik Bedard to Los Angeles, a baseball source said. The O's are in need of a center fielder and a closer who can play at the major league level, and the Dogders seem willing to part with outfielder Matt Kemp and reliever Jonathan Broxton, who could come in a close in lieu of Chris Ray, out for the year after Tommy John surgery. "They want Bedard bad," said the source.

ChatterRed
12-04-2007, 04:13 PM
Uh............no way.

REDblooded
12-04-2007, 04:24 PM
Why would the Reds need another outfielder if the were trying to unload one of there own? I thought the Reds were looking for pitching?

This is where you have to be creative....... Rios is a right handed power bat... something the Reds are sorely lacking. Picking up Rios would give you more flexibility in moving Edwin E for a pitcher.

hippie07
12-04-2007, 04:24 PM
Update on Bedard from ESPN

NOOO!!!
If this is all it would take we could be in this fight!
Hamilton> or = Kemp
and we don't have a closer to give them, but what about closer prospect Burton or Bray.

I could live w/ Hamilton & Burton for Bedard!!!!

Please, please WK, quit trying to pry about Lincecum who's probably never going to be traded and pay attention to Bedard - if he goes for Kemp & Broxton... I'll be sooooo ticked.

GoReds33
12-04-2007, 04:42 PM
NOOO!!!
If this is all it would take we could be in this fight!
Hamilton> or = Kemp
and we don't have a closer to give them, but what about closer prospect Burton or Bray.

I could live w/ Hamilton & Burton for Bedard!!!!

Please, please WK, quit trying to pry about Lincecum who's probably never going to be traded and pay attention to Bedard - if he goes for Kemp & Broxton... I'll be sooooo ticked.Kemp and Broxton are good players though. That being said, it wouldn't take much more than Hamilton and Burton to get him if that's their top offer. You might toss in Maloney or somebody.

REDblooded
12-04-2007, 05:23 PM
Broxton is an unbelievable talent. I'd almost rather have him than Cordero, and I'm excited about Cordero.

Dracodave
12-04-2007, 05:26 PM
Broxton is an unbelievable talent. I'd REALLY REALLY rather have him than Cordero, and I'm excited about Cordero.


Fixed that for ya

REDblooded
12-04-2007, 05:28 PM
lol. Thanks draco....... I didn't want to get jumped too hard, so I held my emotions back a little.

Bip Roberts
12-04-2007, 06:18 PM
I like Bedard but this is the 1st very good year hes had.

tripleaaaron
12-04-2007, 08:20 PM
I like Bedard but this is the 1st very good year hes had.
He's improved each year.
2005 4.00 ERA 1.38 WHIP while striking out 125 in 141.2 IP over 24 starts
2006 3.76 ERA 1.35 WHIP 171K in 196.1 IP over 33 starts
2007 3.16 ERA 1.09 WHIP 221K over 182 in 28 starts

Career line: 3.83 ERA 1.34 WHIP 639K in 658 IP over 111 starts and 3 relief appearances, and much of this was done in a hitters park known as Baltimore, he also plays in a division with BoSox and NYY. Pretty impressive short career so far.

Bip Roberts
12-04-2007, 08:24 PM
He's improved each year.
2005 4.00 ERA 1.38 WHIP while striking out 125 in 141.2 IP over 24 starts
2006 3.76 ERA 1.35 WHIP 171K in 196.1 IP over 33 starts
2007 3.16 ERA 1.09 WHIP 221K over 182 in 28 starts

Career line: 3.83 ERA 1.34 WHIP 639K in 658 IP over 111 starts and 3 relief appearances, and much of this was done in a hitters park known as Baltimore, he also plays in a division with BoSox and NYY. Pretty impressive short career so far.

I like him :)

jmac
12-04-2007, 08:28 PM
He's improved each year.
2005 4.00 ERA 1.38 WHIP while striking out 125 in 141.2 IP over 24 starts
2006 3.76 ERA 1.35 WHIP 171K in 196.1 IP over 33 starts
2007 3.16 ERA 1.09 WHIP 221K over 182 in 28 starts

Career line: 3.83 ERA 1.34 WHIP 639K in 658 IP over 111 starts and 3 relief appearances, and much of this was done in a hitters park known as Baltimore, he also plays in a division with BoSox and NYY. Pretty impressive short career so far.
Out of the pitchers being mentioned, we know Santana is the top draw but Bedard and Haren are like 1A pitchers. Any one "settling" for either fo these two should not be dissappointed.

tripleaaaron
12-04-2007, 08:30 PM
Out of the pitchers being mentioned, we know Santana is the top draw but Bedard and Haren are like 1A pitchers. Any one "settling" for either fo these two should not be dissappointed.

This is the only year you could say you "settled" for talent like those two. Santana is just a beast beyond comparison.

Edd Roush
12-04-2007, 08:37 PM
This is the only year you could say you "settled" for talent like those two. Santana is just a beast beyond comparison.

I agree whole-heartedly. Adding Bedard to our rotation without taking away from the major league team would be phenomenal. If hypothetically we trade Hamilton and Bailey/Cueto, we would be in great shape for the next two years, I think as the favorite in the division for the next couple years. Honestly, I think that if the Reds trade away Hamilton or Bruce, they need to get Dunn locked up to an extension. Not having Griffey, Dunn and Bruce/Hamilton in the outfield in '09, would definately hurt us in Bedard's last year as a Red.

Apparently, Bedard is gung ho to go back to Toronto to pitch and while a first-rounder will be nice when he's gone as a FA, I want the Reds to make sure they are going to be as set in '09 as they are in '08 to make a World Series run. Yea, that's right, Bob's got me talking about a World Series run, and not just "being competitive."

jmac
12-04-2007, 11:05 PM
Apparently, Bedard is gung ho to go back to Toronto to pitch and while a first-rounder will be nice when he's gone as a FA, I want the Reds to make sure they are going to be as set in '09 as they are in '08 to make a World Series run. Yea, that's right, Bob's got me talking about a World Series run, and not just "being competitive."

As far as someone like Bedard going back home in a couple of years, Yes that would be entirely possible.
However, no one thought Bronson would sign an extension. Harang did as well. Give a good pitcher a taste of what winning baseball in Cincy is about and we dont know they would be ready to "go home" do a division which houses NY and Bosox.
Also winning baseball may bring others in when some do leave.
I wasnt saying this totally in response to this quote but others who feel Bedard or whoever would turn around and leave.
There is a chance they would but winning baseball makes a difference.

AdamDunn
12-04-2007, 11:50 PM
Since Wayne Krivsky said what he said in the last post, I've talked to several people who say the Reds are serious about going after Erik Bedard.

Here's what Krivsky said: "I've never said we haven’t connected with the clubs with the higher-end pitchers. I’m looking at anyway I can to improve the team."

That's a huge admission from him. Ordinarily if you asked about going after big-name pitchers, he'd say no comment.

That doesn't mean te Reds are going to get Bedard. But an offer of Homer Bailey, Joey Votto and another player might do the trick. (Jay Bruce is the guy the Reds just don't want to give up).

Again, it goes back to whether you want to play for next year or build for the future. Well, really, it's whether Bob Castellini wants to play for next year or build for the future. And given the Francisco Cordero deal, my guess is Reds are playing for 2008.

Tomorrow -- the last full day of the meeting -- could be interesting.

Prf15
12-04-2007, 11:58 PM
I think the O's would have to consider a Bailey, Votto, a CF(Stubbs, Dickerson?) and a reliever (Pelland?) and I think we could get this done.

BearcatShane
12-04-2007, 11:59 PM
Homer and Votto for Bedard, would ya do it? I would.

HokieRed
12-05-2007, 12:02 AM
I wouldn't trade Homer for anybody. His mix of stuff points to the highest ceiling of any pitcher in the major leagues.

BearcatShane
12-05-2007, 12:08 AM
I wouldn't trade Homer for anybody. His mix of stuff points to the highest ceiling of any pitcher in the major leagues.



I love Homer and his potential but I'll take the proven commodity in Bedard over Homer.

AmarilloRed
12-05-2007, 12:11 AM
One thing I have heard that concerns me is that Bedard wants to play in Toronto. We might only have a 2 year rental, and give up 2 outstanding prospects for it. I would want to be sure we could sign Bedard to an extension before I make that deal

mlbfan30
12-05-2007, 12:15 AM
This is similar to the Hughes/Melky trade proposal.
Is Hughes/Melky better than Bailey/Votto?
Bailey and Hughes have always been about even, with a slight edge to Hughes.
I think Votto is a considerably better option than Melky. Both would bring league avg over position at worst, but Votto has a bigger upside. Also Votto is cost controlled for more years (I think).

Edd Roush
12-05-2007, 12:44 AM
As far as someone like Bedard going back home in a couple of years, Yes that would be entirely possible.
However, no one thought Bronson would sign an extension. Harang did as well. Give a good pitcher a taste of what winning baseball in Cincy is about and we dont know they would be ready to "go home" do a division which houses NY and Bosox.
Also winning baseball may bring others in when some do leave.
I wasnt saying this totally in response to this quote but others who feel Bedard or whoever would turn around and leave.
There is a chance they would but winning baseball makes a difference.


I am not saying that Bedard would not want to come back to Cincinnati, just that he will considerably more expensive than Harang and Arroyo were when they were extended. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of re-upping Bedard, but frankly I have no idea where all this money is coming from.

ChatterRed
12-05-2007, 12:49 AM
I'd trade Bailey/Hamilton/EE for Bedard/Tejada. Then I'd sign Lieber as our #4 or 5 and fill in the other starter with hopefully Cueto.

Bedard would give us possibly the best 1-2-3 punch in our division and one of the best in the NL. Tejada could replace EE at third and give us the much needed additional RH power bat we need.......and in GABP, I'm sure Tejada would flourish.

Essentially......

Bruce would replace Hamilton
Bedard would replace Bailey
Tejada would replace EE

Bip Roberts
12-05-2007, 01:38 AM
thats a pretty bad trade for Baltimore

757690
12-05-2007, 04:31 AM
From c. Trent:

12:38 a.m. EST: So, from what I'm hearing the Reds, Dodgers, Mets and Mariners are the teams really in the Erik Bedard sweepstakes, but the O's don't feel they must move him. It's going to take three major league-ready prospects or young players -- think Bailey, Votto and someone else. The one rumor I heard was Bailey and Stubbs -- even Reds folks would laugh at that thought. No way that would work. It's going to take Bailey, Votto AND... apparently that third name is going to be big. The Dodgers could be the front-runner, but don't count the Reds out. With Bedard and Cordero additions, they'd certainly be in the hunt in the NL Central, and with Harang and Bedard at the front, not too many teams would want to face them in a playoff series.


http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2007/12/tuesday-at-opryland.asp

What does everyone think? Who would you be willing to add to Bailey and Votto to get Bedard?

hippie07
12-05-2007, 07:37 AM
From c. Trent:

12:38 a.m. EST: So, from what I'm hearing the Reds, Dodgers, Mets and Mariners are the teams really in the Erik Bedard sweepstakes, but the O's don't feel they must move him. It's going to take three major league-ready prospects or young players -- think Bailey, Votto and someone else. The one rumor I heard was Bailey and Stubbs -- even Reds folks would laugh at that thought. No way that would work. It's going to take Bailey, Votto AND... apparently that third name is going to be big. The Dodgers could be the front-runner, but don't count the Reds out. With Bedard and Cordero additions, they'd certainly be in the hunt in the NL Central, and with Harang and Bedard at the front, not too many teams would want to face them in a playoff series.


http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2007/12/tuesday-at-opryland.asp

What does everyone think? Who would you be willing to add to Bailey and Votto to get Bedard?

I honestly can't imagine adding anything of substance more than that... definitely no more of the big 5. I really thought WK would make a move (even if it was a crazy move) as long as it didn't include pitching for pitching.

Giants need position players.... I thought the Orioles weren't looking for mainly position players too, but I guess when they got us over a barrel they're going to demand the best we have

AmarilloRed
12-05-2007, 08:43 AM
O's want more for Bedard
Trade offers falling short; team could resume contract talks with ace

By Jeff Zrebiec and Dan Connolly | Sun reporters
10:54 PM EST, December 4, 2007

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - After several hours of trade talks on Day 2 at the winter meetings, Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail said late this afternoon that he was no closer to trading No. 1 pitcher Erik Bedard, as potential suitors continue to fall short of the club's asking price.

"We really are not significantly different than where we were [Monday] at this time," MacPhail said. "Our philosophy is pretty simple. We think we have a pretty good understanding of what is equitable for certain guys and when we get there, great. Until we get there, we'll stay where we are. It's really a simple equation."

As rumors continued to swirl around the Gaylord Opryland Resort & Convention Center that a Bedard trade could be imminent, MacPhail reiterated the club doesn't feel it necessary to move the pitcher, who isn't eligible for free agency until after the 2009 season. MacPhail also said the Orioles could resume contract extension talks for the 28-year-old pitcher at some point during spring training if Bedard isn't traded earlier.

"We've said in every way we can -- it's not a question of really shopping him or trying to move him," MacPhail said. "But at the same time, our record is what our record has been and we have a responsibility to our fans to try to make it better and take whatever we think we have to take to make it better."

Though the list of teams interested in Bedard is seemingly growing by the day, the Orioles have identified a handful of clubs with the type of young talent they are looking for in return for the pitcher.

That list includes the Los Angeles Dodgers, who appear to be the front-runner in the Bedard sweepstakes. Dodgers officials arrived at the meetings on Monday night and met with the Orioles shortly thereafter.

The Dodgers and Orioles have been talking about Bedard for several weeks, with outfielder Matt Kemp, reliever Jonathan Broxton and pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw among the names discussed.

The Orioles also met with the New York Mets this morning, but one club source said today that the Mets, who had been reluctant in previous discussions to move their top prospect, outfielder Fernando Martinez, aren't considered a top contender for Bedard.

MacPhail was also expected today to meet with the Seattle Mariners, who have long coveted Bedard and would certainly get the Orioles' attention with an offer headed by outfielder Adam Jones and pitcher Brandon Morrow. The Cincinnati Reds are also in the mix for Bedard, though one team source said on Monday that they aren't willing to include top prospect Jay Bruce in the deal. The Toronto Blue Jays have also expressed interest, but it remains unlikely the club would trade him within the American League East.

In other Orioles news, there was not much movement on the Miguel Tejada front, but that could change now that third baseman Miguel Cabrera is off the market. The Florida Marlins traded Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to the Detroit Tigers. Tejada has been considered a fallback plan for the Los Angeles Angels if they didn't land Cabrera. As of late this afternoon, the Angels and Orioles had not had any discussions at the meetings.

MacPhail ate lunch and spent well over an hour with Chicago Cubs general manager Jim Hendry today. MacPhail and Hendry are former colleagues and close friends, though the meeting fueled speculation that the two frequent trade partners are at it again. The Cubs have expressed interest in second baseman Brian Roberts and have tried to acquire Bedard several times over the past couple of seasons.

MacPhail said the Orioles remain hopeful of adding a reliever with closer experience to potentially serve as a one-year stopgap with closer Chris Ray and setup man Danys Baez expected to miss the entire season after having Tommy John surgery.

I think they are wrong about talking about resuming extension talks. Bedard has let it be known he isn't interested in an extension with the Orioles. They seem to want a team to overpay, and no one is doing that right now. I would not be surprised if the Orioles left Nashville, and Bedard was still with the team.

schmidty622
12-05-2007, 09:06 AM
They need to stay out of the trade market and pick up some mid-level free agents right now. Freddy Garcia and Matt Clement or Josh Fogg. That gives you a 08 rotation of:

Harang
Arroyo
Garcia
Clement/ Fogg
Bailey

That would certainly be our best rotation in years. At the deadline flip one of Freddy Garcia or Clement, whom ever has been performing better, for a young catcher. Then you have a late 08 early 09 rotation of:

Harang
Arroyo
Garcia/Clement
Bailey
Cueto

And that still leaves you with a future outfield of Dunn, Hamilton, and Bruce with EE and Votto as cornerstones of the infield.

I just dont think we should go out and overspend when we can get better by making the little changes.

bigredbunter
12-05-2007, 09:19 AM
They need to stay out of the trade market and pick up some mid-level free agents right now. Freddy Garcia and Matt Clement or Josh Fogg. That gives you a 08 rotation of:

Harang
Arroyo
Garcia
Clement/ Fogg
Bailey

That would certainly be our best rotation in years. At the deadline flip one of Freddy Garcia or Clement, whom ever has been performing better, for a young catcher. Then you have a late 08 early 09 rotation of:

Harang
Arroyo
Garcia/Clement
Bailey
Cueto

And that still leaves you with a future outfield of Dunn, Hamilton, and Bruce with EE and Votto as cornerstones of the infield.

I just dont think we should go out and overspend when we can get better by making the little changes.

Yeah, but how much better?
If the Reds want to win, then get the best people available---I'm not in favor of hoarding "maybe prospects" (Bailey, Cueto, less so with Bruce) so we can "maybe contend" in 2009. I want to contend now. Bailey & Cueto doesn't help the Reds do that in 2008...You get high draft picks every year

schmidty622
12-05-2007, 09:42 AM
Its great that you want to contend now, but it really doesn’t matter what you want. The Reds don’t have the horses to get one of these upper level pitchers and they don’t have the desire to spend a ton of money to lock them up long term.

You just said Bailey and Cueto are "Maybe Prospects" and don’t help contend in 2008, so why would a team like the O's want to deal a ACE pitcher for guys that are a year or two away and "might help" them win?

ChatterRed
12-05-2007, 09:44 AM
Yeah, but how much better?
If the Reds want to win, then get the best people available---I'm not in favor of hoarding "maybe prospects" (Bailey, Cueto, less so with Bruce) so we can "maybe contend" in 2009. I want to contend now. Bailey & Cueto doesn't help the Reds do that in 2008...You get high draft picks every year


I'm starting to change my tune and disagree with you.

I'd rather contend every year rather than rent a few players for a one time run.

I think the asking price for these pitchers is far too high.

schmidty622
12-05-2007, 09:51 AM
I'm starting to change my tune and disagree with you.

I'd rather contend every year rather than rent a few players for a one time run.

I think the asking price for these pitchers is far too high.


Exactly if we stick with our top prospects and let them develop we will contend year in and year out. Do something like the Marlins do, but not to the extreme that they take it to.

Develop your own talent, when they get too expensive, sign the vital ones, trade the others for other teams top prospects and young major league ready talent. That along with the Reds own draft classes and the signing of good free agents is a formula that will keep the Reds in contention rather than have them shoot their load over Bedard and be in a worse spot when heís gone.

I(heart)Freel
12-05-2007, 12:55 PM
Just read this article about the Dodgers unwillingness to part with their studs.

Starting to feel like the Reds are the front runners for Bedard. It's just too hard for the coastal media to print that.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AhpmahoUN9utKPps9uk639upu7YF?slug=ti-dodgersgm120407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

While I know Reds marketers would love to have something to announce at Reds Fest, I can also see this taking a while to sort out. Even if we walk away with nothing tomorrow, don't call the winter meetings a failure right away. Give it time and perspective.

ChatterRed
12-05-2007, 01:14 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Haren-Bedard-will-not-be-moved-until-after-wint?urn=mlb,56328

According to the Mets, they say Bedard and Haren will not be moved until after the winter meetings.

My opinion is that the paying price is going to drop off significantly. I think the longer this stuff goes on, the less likely a GM is willing to mortgage his farm system for these guys.

Orioles and A's think the price will go up? I doubt it but may end up with egg on my face.

I think the Detroit-Marlins trade set the price too high and now GM's are going to back off from any deals.

It's time to enjoy the Christmas holidays and maybe call a few cheap free agents!

bigredbunter
12-05-2007, 01:16 PM
Exactly if we stick with our top prospects and let them develop we will contend year in and year out. Do something like the Marlins do, but not to the extreme that they take it to.

Develop your own talent, when they get too expensive, sign the vital ones, trade the others for other teams top prospects and young major league ready talent. That along with the Reds own draft classes and the signing of good free agents is a formula that will keep the Reds in contention rather than have them shoot their load over Bedard and be in a worse spot when heís gone.

Except that hasn't exactly worked out for the team in the past. Exhibit A-F is David Espinosa, Dustin Mosely, Chris Gruler, Ryan Wagner, the whole 2001 draft class---There is good buzz surrounding the Red's prospects. MLB has placed premium value on young prospects (especially pitchers) who get people out. Look back through the team's draft history. We've seen Homer Bailey before---People talked about Gruler and Howington like they were great shakes---They are completely potential mlb talent, not actual--and based on last year's performance, Bailey reminds me more of a poor man's Jeff Weaver than Roger Clemens. Gladly, would I exchange one year of serious contention by gutting the "can't miss" prospects on the farm for players with proven ability.

bigredbunter
12-05-2007, 01:22 PM
The Reds donít have the horses to get one of these upper level pitchers and they donít have the desire to spend a ton of money to lock them up long term.


I disagree--Because Bailey's value was mismanaged by bringing him up (and exposing him) last season, he's probably not quite at the level that a Philip Hughes is...But the Reds can stand toe-to-toe with about any team out there as far as the quality of the prospects we can throw at teams for good players like Santana. You tell me, who beats Krivsky when he offers Cueto, Votto & Hamilton for Santana?
If we can't afford him for more than a year, that's fine--Let him walk and get the comp. picks after the season. There will always be more prospects that are gonna do well through AA--Cash them in too when they arrive for experience that will result in actual wins, not production that might materialize in 2-3 years.

757690
12-05-2007, 01:30 PM
Except that hasn't exactly worked out for the team in the past. Exhibit A-F is David Espinosa, Dustin Mosely, Chris Gruler, Ryan Wagner, the whole 2001 draft class---There is good buzz surrounding the Red's prospects. MLB has placed premium value on young prospects (especially pitchers) who get people out. Look back through the team's draft history. We've seen Homer Bailey before---People talked about Gruler and Howington like they were great shakes---They are completely potential mlb talent, not actual--and based on last year's performance, Bailey reminds me more of a poor man's Jeff Weaver than Roger Clemens. Gladly, would I exchange one year of serious contention by gutting the "can't miss" prospects on the farm for players with proven ability.


In my lifetime, the Reds never had four of the top 50 prospects in the majors...ever.

Bruce, Bailey, Votto, Hamilton and Cueto are a different breed of prospects than Espinosa, Gruler, Howington and Wagner. Those in the latter group were considered prospects for one maybe two years after they were drafted, but quickly faded away.
The "Big Five" have steadily become better and better prospects as they moved through the system (except of course for Hamilton), and all are on the verge of contributing at the major league level this year. Gruler and Howington never even made it Double A.

A very unfair comparison.

bigredbunter
12-05-2007, 01:48 PM
In my lifetime, the Reds never had four of the top 50 prospects in the majors...ever.

Bruce, Bailey, Votto, Hamilton and Cueto are a different breed of prospects than Espinosa, Gruler, Howington and Wagner. Those in the latter group were considered prospects for one maybe two years after they were drafted, but quickly faded away.
The "Big Five" have steadily become better and better prospects as they moved through the system

I agree that this last batch is probably a bit better-though, maybe we disagree on what we saw of Bailey last year in Cinci--I saw a kid who had one good pitch that was wild, he was struggling mightily to locate his curve, and wilted before the 6th in most all of his starts as a result.

The point I'm trying to make is that, just like all the previous flameouts, they're still all potential mlb talent--Not actual. You are right in that this crew has kept their minor league success together longer than most (though not all) of the names I mentioned.

TN Red Fan
12-05-2007, 04:37 PM
I remember when we had Sean Casey, Paul Konerko, Mike Cameron, Brett Boone, Aaron Boone, Damien Jackson, Pokie Reese, and CJ Nitkowski, plus I believe Pete Harsnich was pitching well and we had Scott Sullivan, Scott Williamson, and Danny Graves in the bullpen.

Things were looking very bright, but we traded them all away. We needed starting pitchers. Sound familiar?

*BaseClogger*
12-05-2007, 04:47 PM
Exactly if we stick with our top prospects and let them develop we will contend year in and year out. Do something like the Marlins do, but not to the extreme that they take it to.

Develop your own talent, when they get too expensive, sign the vital ones, trade the others for other teams top prospects and young major league ready talent. That along with the Reds own draft classes and the signing of good free agents is a formula that will keep the Reds in contention rather than have them shoot their load over Bedard and be in a worse spot when heís gone.

That is how I would do it to. Sounds like the Atlanta Braves and 14straight Division Titles...

I'm starting to agree with some and say that we just hold our prospects, let them develope in 08, use Griffey's money on Derek Lowe in the next offseason, and try to win in 09. Right now I think 09 is the year to win (gotta get Dunn signed to a LTC though)...

Ahhhorsepoo
12-05-2007, 04:52 PM
DUNN + LTC = NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR A SMALL MARKET NL TEAM!

great for other bigger and AL teams.. but not a small market team like the reds.. especially in a homerun friendly park like GABP where 15-20 homer guys in other ballparks hit 20-28 homers in cincy

*BaseClogger*
12-05-2007, 05:23 PM
DUNN + LTC = NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR A SMALL MARKET NL TEAM!

great for other bigger and AL teams.. but not a small market team like the reds.. especially in a homerun friendly park like GABP where 15-20 homer guys in other ballparks hit 20-28 homers in cincy

We are not as small market as we where a few years ago... The payroll has gone from 40 mills to 85 quickly under Castellini...

Ahhhorsepoo
12-05-2007, 05:36 PM
We are not as small market as we where a few years ago... The payroll has gone from 40 mills to 85 quickly under Castellini...

still not in the top half of yearly payrolls.. and you cant include next year yet because they havent signed my boy bphill to a ltc yet.. they had better or I will be PISSED!

schmidty622
12-05-2007, 07:55 PM
If I’m the GM of the Reds I keep what I got and I wake up and thank god every morning for the good times that are going to come in Cincinnati.

*BaseClogger*
12-05-2007, 09:33 PM
still not in the top half of yearly payrolls.. and you cant include next year yet because they havent signed my boy bphill to a ltc yet.. they had better or I will be PISSED!

Adam Dunn is worth more than Brandon Phillips in my opinion

TN Red Fan
12-05-2007, 10:58 PM
Adam Dunn is worth more than Brandon Phillips in my opinion

I read in RedZone where the Orioles are talking to the Cubs about trading Brian Roberts for Rich Hill.

Now, this is a wild speculation on my part, but wouldn't that make a lot of sense as a precursor to a Phillips and Hamilton for Bedard trade?

It always made a lot more sense to me to trade Phillips for pitching than anybody else. Phillips is coming off a career year, so his value is at a peak.

Otherwise, why would Baltimore all of the sudden leave 2B open, when they've been so resistant to trading Roberts in the past?

*BaseClogger*
12-05-2007, 11:25 PM
I read in RedZone where the Orioles are talking to the Cubs about trading Brian Roberts for Rich Hill.

Now, this is a wild speculation on my part, but wouldn't that make a lot of sense as a precursor to a Phillips and Hamilton for Bedard trade?

It always made a lot more sense to me to trade Phillips for pitching than anybody else. Phillips is coming off a career year, so his value is at a peak.

Otherwise, why would Baltimore all of the sudden leave 2B open, when they've been so resistant to trading Roberts in the past?

we can only hope... that trade would be friggin' awesome!

ED44
12-05-2007, 11:26 PM
we can only hope... that trade would be friggin' awesome!


I am all for Bedard, but I would absolutely HATE to see BP no longer on the squad. He is the face of the franchise, IMO.

TN Red Fan
12-05-2007, 11:29 PM
I am all for Bedard, but I would absolutely HATE to see BP no longer on the squad. He is the face of the franchise, IMO.

Funny thing about Phillips is that his numbers are only slightly better than Gonzalez's over a full season.

hippie07
12-05-2007, 11:32 PM
I read in RedZone where the Orioles are talking to the Cubs about trading Brian Roberts for Rich Hill.

Now, this is a wild speculation on my part, but wouldn't that make a lot of sense as a precursor to a Phillips and Hamilton for Bedard trade?

It always made a lot more sense to me to trade Phillips for pitching than anybody else. Phillips is coming off a career year, so his value is at a peak.

Otherwise, why would Baltimore all of the sudden leave 2B open, when they've been so resistant to trading Roberts in the past?

Yeah, I read a writer that the Roberts deal is being held up because the O's want to see what happens w/ Bedard & Tejada.. which to me means... see who they get.

That doesn't necessarily imply Reds and even if it did it doesn't imply BP, IMO. Maybe they expect to get a 2b prospect in exchange for Tejada ... who knows. I think if the Rule 5 guy we pick up tomorrow is anything other than pitching... it would show us the direction of who WK is willing to trade...

hippie07
12-07-2007, 04:13 PM
MLBTR says that the O's have received offers from 2 teams (Blue Jays & Red Sox) despite like 12 teams showing interest...

Why havent we offered ...?

AmarilloRed
12-07-2007, 04:23 PM
The Orioles told all teams that checked in that it's going to take at least "three premium pieces" for Bedard. Their only problem is that it appears the best names they've heard so far, apparently, have come from the Red Sox and Blue Jays. And there's a better chance the Orioles will re-sign Albert Belle than there is that they'll trade Bedard within their division.

So that leaves the Mets -- who have been shot down a couple of times already, trying to work out some sort of multiteam blockbuster -- or the Dodgers, who seemingly would build a deal around outfielder Matt Kemp, plus just about any of their prospects except the best of the bunch, pitcher Clayton Kershaw.

Can the Orioles find a package in there that works? We'll see. But they've been telling teams that they look at Bedard as the kind of pitcher who turns ordinary teams into playoff teams, so the price isn't ever coming down. And we may not know whether anybody is sincerely interested in meeting that price until the crazed pitching market begins to sort itself out.

I think the Reds might have been close to trading for Bedard, but the Orioles probably wanted Jay Bruce as the centerpiece. That seems like that was unacceptable to the Reds, so the deal was not made. Boston and Toronto simply have given the Orioles the best offers to date.

hippie07
12-07-2007, 09:41 PM
a poster on org said that he heard from a radio source that the O's were asking for Bailey, Bruce, and Votto..... wow!

Degenerate39
12-07-2007, 09:52 PM
a poster on org said that he heard from a radio source that the O's were asking for Bailey, Bruce, and Votto..... wow!

I wouldn't trade any of them, maybe Votto but it'd have to be a good deal, let alone in the same trade.

schmidty622
12-07-2007, 10:48 PM
Forget Bedard its not gonna happen.

Bip Roberts
12-07-2007, 10:54 PM
i would become a marlins fan if that trade went down

jmac
12-07-2007, 11:17 PM
a poster on org said that he heard from a radio source that the O's were asking for Bailey, Bruce, and Votto..... wow!
If that was asked, I am glad WK said "no thanks"