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hippie07
12-06-2007, 08:38 PM
I'm having withdrawal now that the winter meetings are over- so, I find it interesting to engage in wild speculation:

--The O's are in Serious trade talks w/ the Cubs to trade 2nd baseman, someone in another thread pointed out that this is suspicious and speculated that B. Phillips might be on his way to the O's

-- Reds are inquiring on Colorado's 2nd baseman, why?

--Reds are inquiring on Rios, why?

Even there's any truth to these reasons, then either Wayne's insane, or B. Phillips is being offered in trade... possibly to the O's.

Theoretically speaking - if the Reds traded Bailey for Rios and traded Phillips and Votto to the O's for Bedard. Would we be happy or sad?

Rotation becomes:
Harang
Bedard
Arroyo
Belisle
Cueto?

We lose a RH bat but we gain a better one, Kepp or other replacement takes over for Phillips at 2nd... Rios fills in for Dunn who moves to 1st to fill in for Votto.

Outfield: Rios, Hamilton, Griffey (Bruce in the future)

Lineup:
Hamiliton
Kepp
Griffey
Rios
Dunn
Encarnacion
Gonzalez
Ross/Valentin

This gives us our RH bat and 1a Starter...

I wouldn't be upset about this...

*BaseClogger*
12-06-2007, 08:47 PM
me likesy

BEETTLEBUG
12-06-2007, 09:26 PM
Too much movement it won't happen.

Bip Roberts
12-06-2007, 09:27 PM
Bailey and Cueto will be gods next season

hippie07
12-06-2007, 09:45 PM
Too much movement it won't happen.

Two trades is too much movement? What do you mean?

Sean_CaseyRules
12-06-2007, 09:50 PM
I would really like to see another trade to maybe "shake things up", but this time in a GOOD way fo the Redlegs

TN Red Fan
12-06-2007, 09:51 PM
The only thing is this:

Baltimore doesn't need a 1B, the have Kevin Millar, who's decent. Votto is a nice prospect, but he probably won't be any better than Millar for a while.

What they do need is a CF, where Tike Redmond is no better than a journeyman back-up.

It seems more likely that they'd want Hamilton than Votto, which also fits the Rios rumors, as Rios would be coming in to play CF. It also helps that Hamilton's name been thrown around from the beginning.

hippie07
12-06-2007, 10:03 PM
The only thing is this:

Baltimore doesn't need a 1B, the have Kevin Millar, who's decent. Votto is a nice prospect, but he probably won't be any better than Millar for a while.

What they do need is a CF, where Tike Redmond is no better than a journeyman back-up.

It seems more likely that they'd want Hamilton than Votto, which also fits the Rios rumors, as Rios would be coming in to play CF. It also helps that Hamilton's name been thrown around from the beginning.

Hamilton & Phillips would be fine...
No one wants to give up Phillips but if it nets us Bedard and a legitimate playoff team... I'm game.

NorrisHopper30
12-06-2007, 10:12 PM
I wouldn't trade Phillips.
Give them Votto, EdE and some other prospect.

Bigredfan#1
12-06-2007, 10:17 PM
No way you trade a gold glove caliber 2B who can also play SS and was a 30/30 man. I like Rios but we are already loaded in the OF, we need to unload an OF not pick one up. I would love to have Bedard but man I would hate to lose Bailey. I would give up Hamilton and Votto and Maloney for Bedard in a heart beat, don't really want to lose Votto either. We might be able to package EE for Bedard. I just don't want to see us get burned!

Sean_CaseyRules
12-06-2007, 10:19 PM
I like Rios but we are already loaded in the OF, we need to unload and OF not pick one up.

I vote for quote of the winter meeting threads

Natty Redlocks
12-06-2007, 11:27 PM
I say we put a Dudley Do-right mountie hat on Josh Hamilton, tell them he's Canadian, and trade him straight up for Rios.

Keep Bailey and Cueto, since pitching is such a crapshoot anyway.

Take some lumps a year or two, then it's party time.

And oh yeah, fire Dusty.

Blue
12-07-2007, 01:07 AM
I say we put a Dudley Do-right mountie hat on Josh Hamilton, tell them he's Canadian, and trade him straight up for Rios.

Keep Bailey and Cueto, since pitching is such a crapshoot anyway.

Take some lumps a year or two, then it's party time.

And oh yeah, fire Dusty.

That makes no sense. Hamilton is better than Rios and the Reds control him for 5 more seasons. Why on earth would they trade him for Rios?

Stephenk29
12-07-2007, 01:20 AM
Swapping OF doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Rios is an all-star and great player but I just don't see it. Rios would be a great pick up, but like the whole world is saying we already have to many outfielders.

I think to many people assume we can pick up Rios and then trade Dunn or Griffey or whoever. Not very often do chain reaction trades like this happen.

roby
12-07-2007, 01:25 AM
[QUOTE=hippie07;1511318]
Even there's any truth to these reasons, then either Wayne's insane, or B. Phillips is being offered in trade... possibly to the O's.

Wayne is insane if he is even remotely considering trading Brandon Philips! You just can't do that! Go moderate, Wayne!

AmarilloRed
12-07-2007, 01:49 AM
Let's keep in mind this is all just trade speculation. None of us have any clue what Wayne is likely to do.

Hondo
12-07-2007, 04:58 AM
Um, How about this... Trade Livingston straight up for Roy Halladay???

Anyway... Forget Rios unless it's Toronto taking Edwin and Freel and some No Name Minor Leaguers...

Johnny Cueto and Homer Bailey should be kept and pitched as #4 and #5 Starters next year...

Keep Brandon Phillips for years... Second Base is in Good Hands...

I say trade Alex Gonzalez, Edwin Encarncion, Ryan Freel, and 3 second tier prospects for Miguel Tejada (taking on his Salary, example Mike Lowell to Boston to get Beckett), and Eric Bedard...

That's after you trade your Blue Chips to Minnesota for Johan Santana. Krivsky should know Bill Smith and be able to work a Deal. Besides, Minnesota doesn't want to trade Johan within the American League anyhow... Don't want to deal with the constant PR Nightmare of letting him go within the American League...

I say sell the farm for Santana and then use the 72 hour window to give him Zito/Zambrano Money and years... Let's just say 7 years/140 Million including Signing Bonus...

See you in October...

CF Hamilton
2B Phillips
1B Votto
SS Tejada
RF Griffey
3B Brandon Inge
LF Dunn
C Ross
P

I want the Reds to trade for Inge... He is a Gamer.

ShortGoPro.com

Thankyou

TN Red Fan
12-07-2007, 06:54 AM
I want the Reds to trade for Inge... He is a Gamer.


When I was 14 I played American Legion ball in western Virginia. They had to sneak me on the team because I was younger than the rules allowed, but they needed a back-up catcher (my older brother was the starter).

Anyway, I didn't play much, but my brother got suspended one game for getting tossed the night before for arguing strikes. We were playing a double-header the next day against the eventual regional champions and I had to catch both games (you play 9 innings in American Legion, double-headers are a beast if you're a catcher).

Guess who was the other teams starting pitcher for the nightcap? That's right, Brandon Inge. Anyway, he had a nasty forkball, and was mowing his way through our line-up when I came to bat in the third inning. First or second pitch, he came at me with a fastball high and in. All I could do was throw the bat at the ball so I wouldn't get hit, but I ended slapping a little liner over the 3rd baseman's head. I stole second, then scored on a single by the next batter.

Not really relevant to the thread, but one of the highlights of my baseball career. I never went to college, so my career ended shortly after high school and Legion ball. Regardless, at least I can claim to have gotten a hit off a future major leaguer.

TN Red Fan
12-07-2007, 07:05 AM
That makes no sense. Hamilton is better than Rios and the Reds control him for 5 more seasons. Why on earth would they trade him for Rios?

Right handed bat?

TN Red Fan
12-07-2007, 07:12 AM
If they wanted Phillips and were looking to ship Roberts elsewhere, I'd see what they were asking for him and try to nab Roberts to replace Phillips.

It's basically an even swap. Phillips is better defensively but Roberts is better on the basepaths. Phillips has more power, but Roberts walks more. Actually, it would make a lot of sense just as a strait Phillips for Roberts trade. We need a leadoff hitter, and they need somebody they can stick in the middle of their lineup to replace Tejada.

hippie07
12-07-2007, 01:25 PM
If they wanted Phillips and were looking to ship Roberts elsewhere, I'd see what they were asking for him and try to nab Roberts to replace Phillips.

It's basically an even swap. Phillips is better defensively but Roberts is better on the basepaths. Phillips has more power, but Roberts walks more. Actually, it would make a lot of sense just as a strait Phillips for Roberts trade. We need a leadoff hitter, and they need somebody they can stick in the middle of their lineup to replace Tejada.

They're getting pitching for Roberts from the Cubs (supposedly), the Reds aren't really trading pitching unless the Bailey for Rios thing has legs

hippie07
12-07-2007, 02:16 PM
What if we get something like this:
Bruce and lesser specs for Bedard
Bailey for Rios
EdE, Votto, Roenicke for Lincecum

Yes, it would suck to lose Bruce, but honestly I think Hamilton & Bruce will end up being equal threats in the MLB, but other teams apparently aren't viewing Hamilton's trade value nearly as highly as they should, and are failing all over theirselves to get Bruce. So, the way I see it.. we can either give up Hamilton & Bailey to get Bedard OR Bruce to get Bedard. If we trade Bruce for Bedard, we can use Bailey to acquire Bruce's replacement = Rios who is actually better for the team because he's a RH bat.

Then, if the Reds wanted to replace Bailey, they could package EdE and Votto and acquire Lincecum (or Cain). It would stink to lose Votto, but I don't mind losing EdE (especially w/ Rios in the lineup) because I think there's a good chance Todd Frazier will be ready by 09.

New Rotation:
Harang
Bedard
Arroyo
Lincecum
Belisle/Cueto

Lineup:
Hamilton, CF
Keppinger, 3b
Griffey, RF
Rios, LF
Dunn, 1b
Phillips, 2b
Gonzalez, SS
Ross, C

jmac
12-07-2007, 02:23 PM
Right handed bat?
Exactly.
Plus the fact that people that say Hamilton is better are assuming what they think Hamilton will do. Rios is an all-star. Hamilton has the potential definitely but will he progress or hit 240 in 110 games in 08 ?
If this team has a lineup of the likes Dunn-Bruce-Hamilton-Votto , then teams will be lining up their lefties for us like some try now.

jmac
12-07-2007, 02:27 PM
What if we get something like this:
Bruce and lesser specs for Bedard
Bailey for Rios
EdE, Votto, Roenicke for Lincecum

Yes, it would suck to lose Bruce, but honestly I think Hamilton & Bruce will end up being equal threats in the MLB, but other teams apparently aren't viewing Hamilton's trade value nearly as highly as they should, and are failing all over theirselves to get Bruce. So, the way I see it.. we can either give up Hamilton & Bailey to get Bedard OR Bruce to get Bedard. If we trade Bruce for Bedard, we can use Bailey to acquire Bruce's replacement = Rios who is actually better for the team because he's a RH bat.

Then, if the Reds wanted to replace Bailey, they could package EdE and Votto and acquire Lincecum (or Cain). It would stink to lose Votto, but I don't mind losing EdE (especially w/ Rios in the lineup) because I think there's a good chance Todd Frazier will be ready by 09.

New Rotation:
Harang
Bedard
Arroyo
Lincecum
Belisle/Cueto

Lineup:
Hamilton, CF
Keppinger, 3b
Griffey, RF
Rios, LF
Dunn, 1b
Phillips, 2b
Gonzalez, SS
Ross, C

My gut feeling is BobC has given WK orders to get a starting pitcher whether at winter meetings or by/during ST.
However I cant really see reds giving up Bruce,Bailey,EE and Votto.

Natty Redlocks
12-07-2007, 02:27 PM
What if we get something like this:
Bruce and lesser specs for Bedard
Bailey for Rios
EdE, Votto, Roenicke for Lincecum

Yes, it would suck to lose Bruce, but honestly I think Hamilton & Bruce will end up being equal threats in the MLB, but other teams apparently aren't viewing Hamilton's trade value nearly as highly as they should, and are failing all over theirselves to get Bruce. So, the way I see it.. we can either give up Hamilton & Bailey to get Bedard OR Bruce to get Bedard. If we trade Bruce for Bedard, we can use Bailey to acquire Bruce's replacement = Rios who is actually better for the team because he's a RH bat.

Then, if the Reds wanted to replace Bailey, they could package EdE and Votto and acquire Lincecum (or Cain). It would stink to lose Votto, but I don't mind losing EdE (especially w/ Rios in the lineup) because I think there's a good chance Todd Frazier will be ready by 09.

New Rotation:
Harang
Bedard
Arroyo
Lincecum
Belisle/Cueto

Lineup:
Hamilton, CF
Keppinger, 3b
Griffey, RF
Rios, LF
Dunn, 1b
Phillips, 2b
Gonzalez, SS
Ross, C

I know what you mean, but if he wasn't considered a high risk he'd be as untouchable as Bruce. It's not hard to understand some hesitation.

hippie07
12-07-2007, 03:18 PM
My gut feeling is BobC has given WK orders to get a starting pitcher whether at winter meetings or by/during ST.
However I cant really see reds giving up Bruce,Bailey,EE and Votto.

Yeah, but would it "make the team better" - that analysis depends on whether we're in "win now" mode:

If we complete the trades I mentioned above then (from our standpoint) we'd basically be trading:
Bailey for Lincecum
Bruce for Rios
Votto & EdE for Bedard

Lincecum is more advanced/polished than Bailey, Rios is more proven than Bruce and is RH, and Votto & EdE are offense (our strength) for excellent pitching (our weakness).

In other words, I can see (Bailey, Bruce, Votto, and EdE) being traded because it would make us a better team in the end.

ChatterRed
12-07-2007, 03:23 PM
I'm having withdrawal now that the winter meetings are over- so, I find it interesting to engage in wild speculation:

--The O's are in Serious trade talks w/ the Cubs to trade 2nd baseman, someone in another thread pointed out that this is suspicious and speculated that B. Phillips might be on his way to the O's

-- Reds are inquiring on Colorado's 2nd baseman, why?

--Reds are inquiring on Rios, why?

Even there's any truth to these reasons, then either Wayne's insane, or B. Phillips is being offered in trade... possibly to the O's.

Theoretically speaking - if the Reds traded Bailey for Rios and traded Phillips and Votto to the O's for Bedard. Would we be happy or sad?

Rotation becomes:
Harang
Bedard
Arroyo
Belisle
Cueto?

We lose a RH bat but we gain a better one, Kepp or other replacement takes over for Phillips at 2nd... Rios fills in for Dunn who moves to 1st to fill in for Votto.

Outfield: Rios, Hamilton, Griffey (Bruce in the future)

Lineup:
Hamiliton
Kepp
Griffey
Rios
Dunn
Encarnacion
Gonzalez
Ross/Valentin

This gives us our RH bat and 1a Starter...

I wouldn't be upset about this...

I hate the idea of trading Phillips and don't understand why the O's would want Votto and Phillips when they need an outfielder.

BUT......obviously I love the idea of obtaining Bedard........and honestly, if we don't have to trade Hamilton, the idea of obtaining Rios to fill Griffey's spot after next season and having an outfield of Hamilton, Bruce, Rios and Dunn at first base, doesn't sound bad. But I would like it better if Phillips were still here so we'd have 2 righthanded power bats. I also think it upgrades the defense in the outfield. But then again, if EE continues to develop some power, he may provide the extra RH hitting we need.

I still think a starting lineup of Harang, Bedard, and Arroyo is pretty darn impressive. And if the prospect not traded, either Bailey or Cueto can fill the #5 spot adequately and then we could pick up Lieber for our #4........I could live with that.

So based on the proposed trades listed above, we'd see this upcoming season a lineup of......

C Ross (RH)
1B Dunn (LH)
2B Keppinger? (RH)
SS Gonzalez (RH)
3B Encarnacion (RH)
LF Hamilton (LH)
CF Rios (RH)
RF Griffey (LH) then Bruce (LH)

Harang
Bedard
Arroyo
Lieber
Bailey or Cueto