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View Full Version : where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG



thatcoolguy_22
12-07-2007, 04:10 PM
C: Ross, Valentin
1B: Votto, Hatteberg
2B: Phillips, Keppinger
SS: Gonzalez
3B: Encarnacion, Freel
LF: Dunn
CF: Hamilton, Hopper
RF: Griffey
SP: Harang
SP: Arroyo
SP: Belisle
SP: Bailey
SP: Cueto/Maloney/Trade/Washed up free agent
RP: Cordero
RP: Weathers
RP: Burton
RP: Bray
RP: Stanton
RP: Salmon
RP: Coffey (?)

Also in the mix:
UTIL: Jerry Gill
IF: Juan Castro
IF: Paul Janish
OF: Chris Dickerson
RP: Sergio Valenzuela
RP: Gary Majewski
RP: Marcus McBeth
RP: Jon Coutlangus

Needs:
Starting Pitcher, Right Handed bat (and we need both badly)

I like the thread topic... lets discuss

thatcoolguy_22
12-07-2007, 04:43 PM
real quick thoughts...

1) Griffey in RF hurts but is nearly untradeable at this time
2) Dunn needs a LTC
3) #5 pitcher needed badly (actually a #1 would be ideal :cool: but in reality it would be nearly impossible)
4) Another POWER bullpen arm
5) RH bat with a little pop preferably someone who could OPS around 850
6) With the combo of Hamilton/Hopper/Freel I think our CF defense should not be as high of a priority as some have said in the past
7) I would like to find a way to prevent Cueto from touching the 25 man until at least July...
8) Pray Burton can continue his strong 2nd half from last year and Coffey can return to his '06 form

schmidty622
12-07-2007, 04:47 PM
Here's My 25 Man for next season, from the players that we have right now.


C: Ross, Valentin
1B: Votto, Hatteberg
2B: Phillips, Keppinger
SS: Gonzalez
3B: Encarnacion
LF: Dunn
CF: Hamilton, Hopper
RF: Griffey, Bruce
SP: Harang
SP: Arroyo
SP: Belisle
SP: Bailey
SP: Cueto
RP: Cordero
RP: Weathers
RP: Burton
RP: Bray
RP: Salmon
RP: Jon Coutlangus
RP: Marcus McBeth


Id like to add a 3/4 but not Wells, Leiber, or Brett Tomko. Id rather see Bailey and Cueto both in the starting rotation then one of those failures.

Oh and i've thought about this for a little bit. Instead of going out and spending too much on a Starter or getting some retread, maybe what we should do is go out and make our bullpen REAL good to compensate. Middle Relievers are not near as expensive as quality starters and there are a couple of good ones still out their in free agency. If we added like Jeremy Affeldt and Eric Gagne to take the spots of Stanton and Coutlangus or McBeth, it would make our bullpen much stronger. That way we could have Cueto and Bailey be like 5-6 inning pitchers and then have the Pen come in and shut the door, instead of having a starter over extend and fizzle out. That way our deficiency in the Starting Pitcher department isn’t so glaring because the starters don’t need to be counted on to throw 7-8 Strong innings every time out.

Just an alternative way of improving the team for what would probably be cheaper.

Degenerate39
12-07-2007, 05:20 PM
real quick thoughts...

1) Griffey in RF hurts but is nearly untradeable at this time
2) Dunn needs a LTC
3) #5 pitcher needed badly (actually a #1 would be ideal :cool: but in reality it would be nearly impossible)
4) Another POWER bullpen arm
5) RH bat with a little pop preferably someone who could OPS around 850
6) With the combo of Hamilton/Hopper/Freel I think our CF defense should not be as high of a priority as some have said in the past
7) I would like to find a way to prevent Cueto from touching the 25 man until at least July...
8) Pray Burton can continue his strong 2nd half from last year and Coffey can return to his '06 form

The Reds already have a number 1 pitcher. What they need is a 2 or 3.

AmarilloRed
12-07-2007, 06:02 PM
Stanton will be on the roster next year unless he is traded. Valenzuela was a rule 5 pickup, so he might also be on the 25 man roster next year. Freel will be on the roster unless he is moved in a trade.

Orenda
12-07-2007, 06:15 PM
6) With the combo of Hamilton/Hopper/Freel I think our CF defense should not be as high of a priority as some have said in the past

CF isn't so much the problem, it's the corners that are killing the defense.

jmac
12-07-2007, 07:25 PM
The Reds already have a number 1 pitcher. What they need is a 2 or 3.
Thank You !!;)

captainmorgan07
12-07-2007, 08:02 PM
i like where we stand granted we go out and get a pitcher. whether that is through a trade or we sign leiber. If we trade someone just make sure you don 't give up to much in the deal.

757690
12-07-2007, 10:03 PM
Here is what the Reds look like right now:

C: Ross, Valentin
1B: Votto, Hatteberg
2B: Phillips, Keppinger
SS: Gonzalez, Castro
3B: Encarnacion
LF: Dunn
CF: Hamilton, Hopper
RF: Griffey, Freel
SP: Harang
SP: Arroyo
SP: Belisle
SP: Bailey
SP: ? (Shearn)
RP: Cordero
RP: Weathers
RP: Burton
RP: Bray
RP: Stanton
RP: Jon Coutlangus
RP: Majewski
RP: Coffey
RP: McBeth
RP: Salmon

This is not the 25 man roster, but just who is at each position who has some major league experience. There are some players who will have shots at some these jobs that are not on this list, and some of the players on this list will be gone by spring training.

What this shows is that the Reds don't even have anyone outside of Shearn for the fifth spot in the rotation. Considering injuries, a team needs at least 7 or 8 solid starters on their 40 man roster to get them through the year.

That is why is in imperative for the Reds to sign some major league arms to compete for the fifth spot, and to fill in for anyone getting injured from the top 4. This is even the case if they are able to get a solid #2 or 3 starter in a trade.

Here is the list of free agents who can provide innings at the back of the rotation. I think that the Reds need to sign at least two, probably three of these":

Clement/Colon/Fogg/Jennings/Kim/Lawrence/Lieber/R.Lopez/W.Miller/Ohka/Redman/Seo/Thomson/Tomko/Wells/Wright.

I know most of these are off the junkpile, but the Reds really need arms, even if it is to just eat up innings so that they can take their time with Bailey and Cueto. It is a matter of creating depth, even it is weak depth, at a position where the Reds have no one right now.

Bip Roberts
12-07-2007, 10:09 PM
From how everyone is talking about Cueto i might be upset if he doesnt make the roster

jmac
12-07-2007, 10:33 PM
From how everyone is talking about Cueto i might be upset if he doesnt make the roster
My opinion of Cueto is very high ! I would like to see a few more starts in Triple A though. Of course, if he is lights out in ST, who knows?

Bip Roberts
12-07-2007, 10:35 PM
My opinion of Cueto is very high ! I would like to see a few more starts in Triple A though. Of course, if he is lights out in ST, who knows?

I dont know what the kid has to prove. Hes young and surely waiting a bit wouldnt hurt but hes been almost dominate at every level.

BigREDSfaninKY
12-07-2007, 10:40 PM
Here's My 25 Man for next season, from the players that we have right now.


C: Ross, Valentin
1B: Votto, Hatteberg
2B: Phillips, Keppinger
SS: Gonzalez
3B: Encarnacion
LF: Dunn
CF: Hamilton, Hopper
RF: Griffey, Bruce
SP: Harang
SP: Arroyo
SP: Belisle
SP: Bailey
SP: Cueto
RP: Cordero
RP: Weathers
RP: Burton
RP: Bray
RP: Salmon
RP: Jon Coutlangus
RP: Marcus McBeth




No way Bruce is on the roster in a back up role.

ChatterRed
12-08-2007, 02:34 AM
Here's My 25 Man for next season, from the players that we have right now.


C: Ross, Valentin
1B: Votto, Hatteberg
2B: Phillips, Keppinger
SS: Gonzalez
3B: Encarnacion
LF: Dunn
CF: Hamilton, Hopper
RF: Griffey, Bruce
SP: Harang
SP: Arroyo
SP: Belisle
SP: Bailey
SP: Cueto
RP: Cordero
RP: Weathers
RP: Burton
RP: Bray
RP: Salmon
RP: Jon Coutlangus
RP: Marcus McBeth


Id like to add a 3/4 but not Wells, Leiber, or Brett Tomko. Id rather see Bailey and Cueto both in the starting rotation then one of those failures.

Oh and i've thought about this for a little bit. Instead of going out and spending too much on a Starter or getting some retread, maybe what we should do is go out and make our bullpen REAL good to compensate. Middle Relievers are not near as expensive as quality starters and there are a couple of good ones still out their in free agency. If we added like Jeremy Affeldt and Eric Gagne to take the spots of Stanton and Coutlangus or McBeth, it would make our bullpen much stronger. That way we could have Cueto and Bailey be like 5-6 inning pitchers and then have the Pen come in and shut the door, instead of having a starter over extend and fizzle out. That way our deficiency in the Starting Pitcher department isnít so glaring because the starters donít need to be counted on to throw 7-8 Strong innings every time out.

Just an alternative way of improving the team for what would probably be cheaper.

I don't think we can expect both Bailey and Cueto to be ready for next season. Therefore I think it's imperative we sign Lieber or someone like him to hold down the #4 starting pitching spot.

Someone did mention bolstering the bullpen even more, which to me, isn't a bad idea if we cannot trade for starting pitching.

schmidty622
12-08-2007, 06:46 AM
I think the idea of having pitchers "ready" for the major leagues is taken a little to far to the extreme. Cueto doesn’t really have anything more to prove in the minor leagues, and neither does Bailey. What they need now is major league experience. Sure they will take their lumps and bad games but what makes them good major league pitchers is how they respond from those kind of defeats.

Nothing more is going to be learned about Cueto by having him start in AAA. He is either going to be a success in the majors or he wont. This is the year to find out, whether it be through the 5th spot in the rotation, or out of the bullpen.

thatcoolguy_22
12-08-2007, 10:31 AM
The Reds already have a number 1 pitcher. What they need is a 2 or 3.

lets be honest would you rather have a 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5... or a 1, 1, 1, 1, and 1. There are no rules that we must have legitimate blah blah blah...


The 5 best pitchers you have will be your starters

thatcoolguy_22
12-08-2007, 10:35 AM
My opinion of Cueto is very high ! I would like to see a few more starts in Triple A though. Of course, if he is lights out in ST, who knows?

refer to Homer Bailey in ST of 2006 or Victor Santos in 2007 and then let me know if ST proves anything...

jmac
12-08-2007, 11:08 AM
refer to Homer Bailey in ST of 2006 or Victor Santos in 2007 and then let me know if ST proves anything...
It doesnt "prove"anything per say. However if the reds still need for example 2 spots filled and Bailey gets rocked and Belisle gets rocked and Cueto is lights out.
Well in this scenario, I figure Belisle to get one anyway and Bailey probably being sent to Louisville. Cueto should be in louisville for awhile imo but in the event it plays out as I mentioned,they may try him there.
As far as Santos, he had a past history of being very hittable and one does not usually change in ST. Guys like him, Jimmy Anderson,Joey Hamilton etc, it would take more than ST to prove something to me.

BLEEDS
12-08-2007, 11:21 AM
Cueto will not start a game for the Reds in 2008.

They are not going to rush him like they did Bailey.

We will be picking up a SP of some sort, before the season.

That is all.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

jmac
12-08-2007, 11:30 AM
Cueto will not start a game for the Reds in 2008.

They are not going to rush him like they did Bailey.

We will be picking up a SP of some sort, before the season.

That is all.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Cueto pitched 4 games in Triple A which to me isnt enough.
To say he will not "start a game" is for reds is possible but considering Shearn got a few starts , it is not out of the realm of possibility.

chisdad
12-08-2007, 11:44 AM
Why is everyone down on Griffey? :confused:

ChatterRed
12-08-2007, 11:54 AM
lets be honest would you rather have a 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5... or a 1, 1, 1, 1, and 1. There are no rules that we must have legitimate blah blah blah...


The 5 best pitchers you have will be your starters

I think the labeling of #1's, 2's, 3's, etc......is because most MLB organizations cannot afford five #1's. Unless some of them were youngsters that hadn't gotten the big contracts yet, a team might be shelling out $15 million - $20 million per #1 pitcher.

If the Reds trade for Bedard, Kazmir, Haren or another #1, they would have two #1 quality pitchers if you include Harang. Harang seems to start slow and get better as the season goes along.

Natty Redlocks
12-08-2007, 01:20 PM
Why is everyone down on Griffey? :confused:

Hmmm....

He's injury-prone, declining rapidly, bad defensively, expensive, and doesn't appear to realize any of this.

Other than that, he's great.

Seriously, at this point Griffey is basically a decent stopgap for Jay Bruce. The main thing is he just doesn't cover much ground out there anymore.

thatcoolguy_22
12-08-2007, 01:57 PM
I think the labeling of #1's, 2's, 3's, etc......is because most MLB organizations cannot afford five #1's. Unless some of them were youngsters that hadn't gotten the big contracts yet, a team might be shelling out $15 million - $20 million per #1 pitcher.

If the Reds trade for Bedard, Kazmir, Haren or another #1, they would have two #1 quality pitchers if you include Harang. Harang seems to start slow and get better as the season goes along.

No one expects us to have 5 #1 pitchers... I was just making a point that just because we need a number "3" pitcher does not mean we can not look for a Bedard type and just push back Arroyo...

*BaseClogger*
12-08-2007, 04:34 PM
Coutlangus should definitly be in our 'pen next year...

Stephenk29
12-08-2007, 04:59 PM
Coutlangus should definitly be in our 'pen next year...

agreed, i thought he came around nicely.

Really I think our roster isn't all that far off from being good. We need one more starting pitcher, and another bullpen guy. I think our offense if fair.