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jmble
12-13-2007, 10:34 AM
Might as well start a thread about it. I'm sure we will all be talking about it soon enough.

So far the Reds have pretty much escaped clean in the steroid stories. Nobody has even come out as suspects to this point.

My question is, is there anybody from the past few years to now that you wouldn't be surprised if they show up on the list?

Ben
12-13-2007, 10:39 AM
Juan Castro

jmble
12-13-2007, 10:46 AM
ESPN radio is breaking that Roger Clemens is going to be on the list.

Krawhitham
12-13-2007, 10:51 AM
So far the Reds have pretty much escaped clean in the steroid stories. Nobody has even come out as suspects to this point.

Ryan Jorgenson, Ryan Franklin, Mike Cameron, & Jose Guillen all say hello

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 11:11 AM
Jorgenson, and Cameron both never failed a roids test

Jorgenson was a pot head or something and Cameron failed a speed test

REDblooded
12-13-2007, 11:19 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Bronson Arroyo won't make the list.........

NorrisHopper30
12-13-2007, 11:20 AM
I think A-Rod is on it.

Hopefully not Cordero - that'd be terrible.

schmidty622
12-13-2007, 11:21 AM
Roger Clemens and his 7 Cy Youngs should be hung in the middle of central park and then dumped in the Hudson river.

NorrisHopper30
12-13-2007, 11:30 AM
ESPN is reporting Roger Clemens is in the report. Clemens was named in the Jason Grimsley affidavit, anyway. So were Andy Pettitte, Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts, Jay Gibbons, and David Segui.

CySeymour
12-13-2007, 11:46 AM
I wonder if it will be reported that Marty's poofy hair is on the juice.

mroby85
12-13-2007, 11:57 AM
Andy Pettitte

jmble
12-13-2007, 12:06 PM
I'm not sure if that was a guess or a report Mroby, but ESPN radio just confirmed that Pettitte is going to be on the report.

Stephenk29
12-13-2007, 12:10 PM
If Bret Boone isn't mentioned I'd be highly surprised. He's the most obvious former Red.

REDblooded
12-13-2007, 12:16 PM
I wonder if maybe Wily Mo makes the list.....

mroby85
12-13-2007, 12:39 PM
I'm not sure if that was a guess or a report Mroby, but ESPN radio just confirmed that Pettitte is going to be on the report.

it wasn't a guess, i wish i could take credit for that, but i can't, lol. I'll add more detail with it next time.

tsj017
12-13-2007, 12:50 PM
The complete list, according to WNBC in NYC:

http://www.wnbc.com/sports/14845845/detail.html

Clemens, Pujols Among Big Names On Mitchell's Expected Steroid List

POSTED: 11:23 am EST December 13, 2007
UPDATED: 11:43 am EST December 13, 2007

NEW YORK -- Newschannel 4's Jonathan Dienst has obtained the expected list of current and former major league players linked to steroids, according to George Mitchell's investigation.
The list includes former MVP's Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Jason Giambi, Ken Caminitti and Albert Belle. The list contains two sets of brothers: Jose and Ozzie Canseco and Aaron and Bret Boone. Cy Young award winner Roger Clemens is also on the list.

Brady Anderson
Manny Alexander
Rick Ankiel
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Aaron Boone
Rafael Bettancourt
Bret Boone
Milton Bradley
David Bell
Dante Bichette
Albert Belle
Paul Byrd
Wil Cordero
Ken Caminiti
Mike Cameron
Ramon Castro
Jose Canseco
Ozzie Canseco
Roger Clemens
Paxton Crawford
Wilson Delgado
Lenny Dykstra
Johnny Damon
Carl Everett
Kyle Farnsworth
Ryan Franklin
Troy Glaus
Rich Garces
Jason Grimsley
Juan Gonzalez
Eric Gagne
Nomar Garciaparra
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jose Guillen
Jay Gibbons
Juan Gonzalez
Clay Hensley
Jerry Hairston
Felix Heredia, Jr.
Darren Holmes
Wally Joyner
Darryl Kile
Matt Lawton
Raul Mondesi
Mark McGwire
Guillermo Mota
Robert Machado
Damian Moss
Abraham Nunez
Trot Nixon
Jose Offerman
Andy Pettitte
Mark Prior
Neifi Perez
Rafael Palmiero
Albert Pujols
Brian Roberts
Juan Rincon
John Rocker
Pudge Rodriguez
Sammy Sosa
Scott Schoenweiis
David Segui
Alex Sanchez
Gary Sheffield
Miguel Tejada
Julian Tavarez
Fernando Tatis
Maurice Vaughn
Jason Varitek
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Kerry Wood

jmble
12-13-2007, 12:52 PM
Well apparantly this list is going around the internet and being called the Mitchell Report list. Nobody can substantiate whether this is true, but as the blogger on Deadspin wrote, "It probably is (We mean, come on: The list has Rich Garces on it)"

List removed to save space, since I got beat to it.

stevekun
12-13-2007, 01:00 PM
Its good to see Griffey escape the list...I have hated that rumor in the past

rotnoid
12-13-2007, 01:02 PM
Darryl Kile is an intriguing name on this list to me. I wonder if the roids played any part in what happened to him. I was on my honeymoon at the time. My wife and I were both completely shocked when it happened. Reports of that are just about the only TV we saw that week.

tsj017
12-13-2007, 01:04 PM
Predicted reactions:

Selig and the owners will be shocked, SHOCKED, to learn this was going on right under their noses.

The players union will be huffy and indignant, complaining about a witch hunt that's based on rumor and hearsay.

Mark it down.

EddieMilner
12-13-2007, 01:06 PM
Looking at the list and seeing the lack of Reds names on it, probably gives a good explanation on why the Reds have been so pathetic over the last 10 years.

I am not suggesting that the Reds should have been on the juice, but they already have a uphill battle as a small market team. Add in the fact that they aren't cheating, they didn't have much of a chance at all.

I also expected Ron Gant's name to be on that list.

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 01:32 PM
Juan Castro

......yes, him and Billy Bates. How about Tom Browning and that mean fastball of his? :D

Seriously, possibly Glenn Bragg? Never forget him swinging and breaking the bat over his back. Not that anyone will care about Bragg doing steroids, though.

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 01:33 PM
Predicted reactions:

Selig and the owners will be shocked, SHOCKED, to learn this was going on right under their noses.

The players union will be huffy and indignant, complaining about a witch hunt that's based on rumor and hearsay.

Mark it down.

I agree completely.

Scott Boras has already issued a small snippet saying it's an unfair process.

GEE, SCOTT..........I'M REALLY SURPRISED YOU'D SAY THAT ABOUT YOUR $100 MILLION DOLLAR PAYCHECKS......UM, I MEAN PLAYERS. :rolleyes:

Stephenk29
12-13-2007, 01:35 PM
Those are some huge names, I just found this list before getting on here. I'm already giving my Cardinal fan friends crap. A lot of these guys you could see coming and are really unshocking.

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 01:38 PM
So former Reds - Aaron and Bret Boone, and Scott Schoenweiss? Is that it or did I miss somebody?

No wonder we were so good when they played for us! It was the juice, baby!!!!

Stephenk29
12-13-2007, 01:45 PM
So former Reds - Aaron and Bret Boone, and Scott Schoenweiss? Is that it or did I miss somebody?


Dante Bichette

Hands22
12-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Dante Bichette
Mike Cameron

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Wasn't Jose Guillen on the Reds at one time or am I confused with Juan Encarnacion? I'm really confused.......my memory is a blank right now.

ED44
12-13-2007, 01:57 PM
Yes...Guillen was a Red...that's how we got Harang...Ryan Franklin and Felix Heredia Jr to.

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 02:00 PM
It's interesting how all those former Reds got traded or released at one point or another. I wonder if Reds mgmt knew and got rid of them thinking the hammer was going to come down on steroids years ago instead of taking 15 plus years!

Goten
12-13-2007, 02:00 PM
the big question is: will clemens face the same scrutiny bonds does?

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 02:02 PM
He should.

I'm most disgusted with the tarnishing of the record books. They destroyed everything those who came before them accomplished.

GSURedsfan
12-13-2007, 02:03 PM
In all seriousness? I'm SHOCKED Gas Can Graves wasn't on the list......shocked

jmble
12-13-2007, 02:05 PM
It's important to note that this list is not confirmed. In fact WNBC talked to a high ranking baseball executive who is refuting some of the names on the list. We will know for sure in about an hour.

By the way.... Kyle Farnsworth? Can't be a surprise to anyone. I've never seen roid rage quite like his.

Stephenk29
12-13-2007, 02:08 PM
By the way.... Kyle Farnsworth? Can't be a surprise to anyone. I've never seen roid rage quite like his.

John Rocker....hahaha that explains a lot

Hands22
12-13-2007, 02:14 PM
the big question is: will clemens face the same scrutiny bonds does?

Clemens has already been reported to be involved with steroids and the media never really said much about it. He might get it worse this time around though since there aren't really any big surprises on the leaked list.

The thing I wanted to see the most (besides th Reds ties) was how many Red Sox and to a lesser extent how many Yankees made the list. With Mitchel working for the Sox I think a lot of people were skeptical. I see Varitek and Damon are there, but none of the huge stars show up.

Pujols might get some flak, Detroit's duo of Pudge and Shef might get written about, but I really don't see the national media latching on to any of these guys to write about. Selig is happy because of this, and he can now say he did everything he could to bring the names out. The only thing that could make the situation better for MLB is if Sanatana gets traded in the next couple of days and this report will be old news.

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Jose Rijo oh noes

Handofdeath
12-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Neifi Perez? Did he take them so he could suck at a higher level?

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 02:40 PM
id put money on stanton getting named

*BaseClogger*
12-13-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm suprised to not see Gallaraga or Greg Vaughn...

Goten
12-13-2007, 02:44 PM
Anyone real shocked to see Albert Pujols on the list? Bagwell, Pudge, Gonzalez, and heck even belle didn't shock me, but Pujols? Jesus.

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 02:44 PM
I'm suprised to not see Gallaraga or Greg Vaughn...

or bichette

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 02:45 PM
Anyone real shocked to see Albert Pujols on the list? Bagwell, Pudge, Gonzalez, and heck even belle didn't shock me, but Pujols? Jesus.

It wont shock me

Goten
12-13-2007, 02:46 PM
It wont shock me

eh, I guess it's a fan thing. Pujols is ( or now was ) my favorite player. sucks to learn that he may infact have cheated:(

*BaseClogger*
12-13-2007, 02:47 PM
or bichette

he was on the list

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 02:48 PM
Im not buying that list yet

schmidty622
12-13-2007, 02:50 PM
Well so much for going after Prior

Redsnake
12-13-2007, 02:52 PM
Well so much for going after Prior

Maybe this will make him even cheaper!! :D

schmidty622
12-13-2007, 02:57 PM
Just heard about Paul Lo Duca in the mitchell report.

Stephenk29
12-13-2007, 03:00 PM
Just heard about Paul Lo Duca in the mitchell report.
Neagle, Vina, Tejada

schmidty622
12-13-2007, 03:04 PM
"All 30 clubs have had problems" DAMN YOU AARON and BRET BOONE!!!!!!!!

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 03:06 PM
Hal Morris :laugh:

Stephenk29
12-13-2007, 03:09 PM
I just downloaded the Report off MLB.com.

Pujols is not in the report

REDblooded
12-13-2007, 03:10 PM
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/12/13/mitchell.report.pdf

REDblooded
12-13-2007, 03:11 PM
Hal Morris!

CincyFalcon
12-13-2007, 03:13 PM
Kent Mercker, Denny Neagle

HalMorrisRules
12-13-2007, 03:16 PM
Hal Morris :laugh:

I dont see what is so funny. :rolleyes:

REDblooded
12-13-2007, 03:21 PM
Prior isn't on the list

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 03:23 PM
I dont see what is so funny. :rolleyes:

rofl

schmidty622
12-13-2007, 03:30 PM
can we please cut mike stanton now???

jmble
12-13-2007, 03:30 PM
Is Hal Morris a surprise? It was reportedly his bat that was corked when Sabo got suspended. I guess he really wanted to get an edge.

schmidty622
12-13-2007, 03:34 PM
He sure needed it

Goten
12-13-2007, 03:35 PM
Pujols, Belle, Pudge, Bagwell, Varitek were not listed. The list floating around the internet earlier was bogus. Sosa wasn't listed either, and mcgwire was listed as an andro user.

Clemens was listed though, and so was bonds, though there was very little about bonds.

tsj017
12-13-2007, 03:37 PM
Just because a player's name isn't on the list doesn't mean he isn't (or wasn't) a user.

I'll bet there's a whole lot of players who just dodged the bullet (or who haven't been busted yet).

Goten
12-13-2007, 03:39 PM
Just because a player's name isn't on the list doesn't mean he isn't (or wasn't) a user.

I'll bet there's a whole lot of players who just dodged the bullet (or who haven't been busted yet).

i agree with you, im just saying that lists floating around the internet earlier were bogus.

wojo1025
12-13-2007, 03:43 PM
I guess I just didn't want to believe, but there are a NUMBER of former Reds on this list. None of which were stand out star players (i'm only 1/2 through the list) but we've had a lot of juiced up players/pitchers. Very sad to see.

tsj017
12-13-2007, 03:45 PM
Lots of former and marginal current players on this "official" list.

How convenient.

MLB and the players union will put their heads back in the sand and hope the public will, too.

Stephenk29
12-13-2007, 03:45 PM
For those of you not wanting to scour the report.....here's what I've collected.

__________________________________________________ ____
Denny Neagle
Paul Lo Duca
Fernando Vina
Matt Herges
Mike Bell
Eric Gagne
Gary Bennet
Jim Pargue
Bendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
John Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan
Kevin Young
Todd Pratt
Ryan Franklin
Ron Villone
Mo Vaughn
F.P. Santagelo
David Justice
Greg Zaun
Chuck Knoblauch
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettite
Matt Franco
Hal Morris
Mark Carreon
Todd Hunley
Josias Manzillano
Tim Laker
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Lenny Dykstra
Randy Velarde
Gary Sheffield
Benito Santiago
Jason Giambi
Bobby Estella
Barry Bonds
Marvin Benard
Armando Rios
Ken Caminiti
Mark McGwire
Adam Riggs
Kevin Brown
Rondell White
David Sequi
Miquel Tejada
Glenallen Hill
Jerry Hairston
Jason Grimsley
Larry Bigbie
Paul Byrd
JosecGuillen
Matt Williams
Steve Woodward
Scott Schonweis
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Gary Mathews Jr
Darren Holmes
Jeryy Hairston
Troy Glaus
Jose Conseco
Jay Gibbons
David Bell
Rick Ankiel
Bart Miaditch
Mike Stanton
Steve Randolph
Jason Christiansen
Kent Merker
Cody McKay
Mike Lansing

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 03:51 PM
Where is Billy Bates?

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 03:53 PM
I think all contracts with any of these players should be deemed null and void and they should be banned for life.

Now if Harang were on that list, I might feel differently. ;)

It would sure help us get rid of Stanton.

durl
12-13-2007, 03:59 PM
I've browsed the report.

There's a man who testified (cooperated with the investigation) that he sold HGH and other substances to many of those named. Is there any reason to doubt his testimony? There were some instances where there didn't seem to be overwhelming evidence that the accused players actually took banned substances, just this person's testimony.

I believe the problem is widespread. I just want to make sure that this person is credible.

ChatterRed
12-13-2007, 04:02 PM
Is anyone really surprised at the names on the list?

It's almost anti-climactic.

Sabres73
12-13-2007, 04:03 PM
MLB paid $60 million dollars for this! Outside of what we already knew from the BALCO investigation, they only introduced two new sources of information. Those players named are just the unlucky tip of the iceberg that happened to use one of three (BALCO, Radomski and McNamee) suppliers. I am sure those were only steroid suppliers in the major league over the last 10 years:rolleyes:.

Ahhhorsepoo
12-13-2007, 04:04 PM
for the record.. I am more surprised about the names not listed.. but mentioned (i.e. "virtually all the marlins players" from 1998-2001.. those are some BIG TIME PLAYERS if they are involved.. Derek Lee, Cliff Floyd, Livan Hernandez, Luis Castillo, Mike Lowell, Mark Kotsay, Aj Burnett, Edgar Renteria, Bobby Bonilla, Mike Piazza, Todd Zeile, Ryan Dumpster, Antonio Alfonseca, Charles Johnson, Brad Penny, Matt Clement, Preston Wilson, Chuck Smith, Ricky Bones.. ohh yeah and alex gonzalez.. FROM OUR REDS..

Stephenk29
12-13-2007, 04:07 PM
Sosa isn't even in the report. His name appears ONCE and it was only a reference to the Congress hearing. The amount of players that should be on this list is probably 5x larger....

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-13-2007, 04:24 PM
So now can we get rid of Mike Stanton, The powers that be have refered to his past experience as a meter to what he is still capable of. Knowing now that it was achieved by using drugs, the current drop off really makes sense and I see no reason to keep him on this team. Very sad to see Mercker on this list, hell of a guy. Anyone notice how many players on this list that are or were available this off season. Were the teams notified in advance or what. I have to say it was a good idea for the Reds to not make a trade for pitching before this report came out, now lets get it done.

GoReds33
12-13-2007, 04:42 PM
I am glad that Stanton was on it. We now have an excuse to get rid of him.

By the way, thank God we got rid of Cantu.:D

Moosie52
12-13-2007, 04:44 PM
Is it really cheating if everyone's doing it? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

schmidty622
12-13-2007, 05:33 PM
Bud Selig is a big time ****** bag. But maybe he'll suspend Stanton for life or something to help the Reds.

*BaseClogger*
12-13-2007, 05:44 PM
Bud Selig is a big time ****** bag. But maybe he'll suspend Stanton for life or something to help the Reds.

he likes watching the brewers clean up on Stanton

Trace's Daddy
12-13-2007, 07:07 PM
One that I have always wondered about: Glenn Braggs. Will the list go back that far?

Orenda
12-13-2007, 07:34 PM
I wonder if any of these guys who have been outed will now start to speak up.

757690
12-13-2007, 08:02 PM
I am not sure the Reds can release Stanton, since the alleged violations occurred before he signed with the Reds. However, Stanton may want to retire, seeing that nothing can happen to him if he is not an active player. That might be worth turning down whatever money the Reds would owe him for next year.

Orenda
12-13-2007, 08:05 PM
I am not sure the Reds can release Stanton, since the alleged violations occurred before he signed with the Reds. However, Stanton may want to retire, seeing that nothing can happen to him if he is not an active player. That might be worth turning down whatever money the Reds would owe him for next year.

They can release him if they are willing to buy out his contract.

Goten
12-13-2007, 08:16 PM
clemens newly hired lawyer claims clemens is outraged.

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 08:23 PM
i say make stanton start doing roids and crap again

redsfan1966
12-13-2007, 08:34 PM
the one thing this list proves is that steroids doesnt necessarily make you a better player...lot of crap on that list...interesting to hear Dibble defend the players on XM today....fire too close Officer Dibble??

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 08:38 PM
the one thing this list proves is that steroids doesnt necessarily make you a better player...lot of crap on that list...interesting to hear Dibble defend the players on XM today....fire too close Officer Dibble??

how do you know it doesnt make you a better player?

tsj017
12-13-2007, 09:50 PM
clemens newly hired lawyer claims clemens is roid raged.

Fixed that for you.

tsj017
12-13-2007, 10:04 PM
There's probably only one way we'll ever be fairly certain about some of these guys--when they start dropping dead 10-15 years from now at a too-young age. That'll be more conclusive than the Mitchell Report.

The dirty little secret here is that everyone involved--owners, players, the union--had no problem with steroid use. The players got bigger numbers and better contracts. The union had more members making more money. And the owners got to sell lots and lots of tickets. Chicks dig the long ball, remember?

The only reason anyone involved is acting remorseful now is because they got caught. I suspect they'd all be happy if the fuss would just blow over and they could get back to business as usual.

To replace Bud Selig, I nominate Vince McMahon.

tsj017
12-13-2007, 10:09 PM
The revelation that Hal Morris took steroids has shaken baseball to the core.

:cool:

Bip Roberts
12-13-2007, 10:14 PM
I have a Hal morris autograph that is now almost more worthless

fadetoblack2880
12-13-2007, 10:16 PM
Well, now that the Mitchell report is out, can we get back to the regular offseason talk of trades and free agent signings?

will5979
12-13-2007, 11:16 PM
The revelation that Hal Morris took steroids has shaken baseball to the core.

:cool:

Think of it this way, in 1990 we had only 1 juicer. The A's had several! And we still swept em!:thumbup: So it goes to show that cheaters truely never prosper...only people who improvise.

Moosie52
12-14-2007, 08:35 AM
Well, since most of the users did it before baseball outlawed steroids, and since there is no physical evidence to support the charges, nothing is going to happen to these guys. Except that some of them will die at age 49.

durl
12-14-2007, 09:27 AM
the one thing this list proves is that steroids doesnt necessarily make you a better player...lot of crap on that list...

I would argue that the "crap" on that list, if they indeed did use steroids, did so to stay in the big leagues. Who knows? Perhaps they needed something to boost their performance just enough to stay in the majors. They may have thought it better to pull in $1 million a year as a marginal player than to pull down $50K/year doing another job.

That's another aspect of steroids that those who think they're no big deal miss. They claim steroids don't hurt anyone but the player, but they may keep a clean player from making the team while a juicer takes their spot on the roster.

robmadden1
12-14-2007, 09:32 AM
Alyssa Milano's take on the Mitchell Report: http://alyssa.mlblogs.com/

Jack Burton
12-14-2007, 11:40 AM
The report is flawed from the get go and most of it is a joke. You got a guy with ties to the Red Sox running the damn thing, no wonder certain names appear. McCarthyism at its finest.

shredda2000
12-14-2007, 12:40 PM
I have a Hal morris autograph that is now almost more worthless

Can I have it? I will put it right next to my Pete Rose autograph!!! :thumbup:

Bip Roberts
12-14-2007, 01:32 PM
Can I have it? I will put it right next to my Pete Rose autograph!!! :thumbup:

I got a hector carrasco also if you want!

:(

durl
12-14-2007, 02:49 PM
The report is flawed from the get go and most of it is a joke. You got a guy with ties to the Red Sox running the damn thing, no wonder certain names appear. McCarthyism at its finest.

I agree that it is most likely flawed. At least with McCarthy, he was looking for something that people said didn't exist and actually found it.

I liked Ken Rosenthal's take on the report on foxsports.com.

Slyder
12-14-2007, 03:15 PM
There's probably only one way we'll ever be fairly certain about some of these guys--when they start dropping dead 10-15 years from now at a too-young age. That'll be more conclusive than the Mitchell Report.

You can't prove its directly related to suppose drug us. theres people in their 40s and 50s who kill over due to heart attacks or other reasons who were perfectly healthy. You cannot prove nor can you disprove it. And theres no second chance to continue the experiment.


To replace Bud Selig, I nominate Vince McMahon.

It certainly bring change... He couldn't be worst or a bigger idiot than Selig.

redsfan1966
12-15-2007, 10:58 PM
I will agree that steroids could have been the difference between being in AAA and making the big squad...but with the exception of Clemens and Pettite and a few others--it seemed to me the list had a lot of marginal players on it...not ones that would make the average fan overly concerned. As far as Vince McMahon--it would be cool to see "Angry Vince" dish out punishment----"Bend over Bonds....bend over and kiss my a-s!!"

Dracodave
12-16-2007, 10:45 AM
I will agree that steroids could have been the difference between being in AAA and making the big squad...but with the exception of Clemens and Pettite and a few others--it seemed to me the list had a lot of marginal players on it...not ones that would make the average fan overly concerned. As far as Vince McMahon--it would be cool to see "Angry Vince" dish out punishment----"Bend over Bonds....bend over and kiss my a-s!!"

I'd rather hear him say "YOU'RE FIIIRREEED!!!"

GoReds33
12-16-2007, 01:17 PM
I can't believe that Pettitte actually admitted he did it. I always looked up to him. He was never the best pitcher though. I hope this will bring more of the players to admitting it.

*BaseClogger*
12-16-2007, 03:10 PM
I can't believe that Pettitte actually admitted he did it. I always looked up to him. He was never the best pitcher though. I hope this will bring more of the players to admitting it.

me too

Bip Roberts
12-16-2007, 03:44 PM
I can't believe that Pettitte actually admitted he did it. I always looked up to him. He was never the best pitcher though. I hope this will bring more of the players to admitting it.

You mean if he in fact did something wrong it might have been a bad judgment but thats only if it was maybe wrong or not at the time of the use if it was a error.

Stephenk29
12-17-2007, 01:14 AM
A lot of these guys are getting crucified now. I didn't read all of the Mitchell Report but weren't some of the players on it for things like Andro and HGH? Although you can say it is wrong, it was not a banned substance at the time. What's the reason for even putting them in the report?

Bip Roberts
12-17-2007, 02:05 AM
A lot of these guys are getting crucified now. I didn't read all of the Mitchell Report but weren't some of the players on it for things like Andro and HGH? Although you can say it is wrong, it was not a banned substance at the time. What's the reason for even putting them in the report?

HGH is a performance enhancer that requires a prescription, just because it wasnt banned in name doesnt mean it wasnt banned.