PDA

View Full Version : Scott Kazmir



VI_RedsFan
12-17-2007, 03:28 PM
I hope Krivsky is talking to the Rays about this guy. I would actually prefer him to Bedard. I seriously doubt MacPhail will back off of his demand for Bruce in a EB deal, especially if Adam Jones plus Jeff Clement is on the table in Seattle. As much as I would want to get Bedard, trading Bruce for 2 years of him is just stupid.

Kazmir, on the other hand, would be under control with us for a lot longer than Bedard would. He also just happens to be 4 years younger with better K-numbers. Sure, his injury problems have been well documented, but none of his past injuries seem to be career-threatening. It probably wouldn't take Jay Bruce to bring him here, probably something more like a bat (Encarnacion) + some young pitching (Bailey) to get it done. He would fit perfectly into our rotation as a much-needed #2 starter. Let's say the deal looks like this:

Homer Bailey, Edwin Encarnacion, Travis Wood, Josh Roenicke, and Janish/Valaika for Kazmir

That gives us a rotation of:

Harang
Kazmir
Arroyo
Belisle
FA/Cueto/Maloney

With that kind of rotation added to the Cordero signing with our offense, and we'll take the NL Central with ease. Thoughts?

AmarilloRed
12-17-2007, 04:48 PM
I imagine the price would be much higher for Kazmir. I expect the Reds are talking to all teams about trading starting pitching, however.

Handofdeath
12-17-2007, 05:19 PM
I would prefer Kazmir to just about anybody honestly and as far as injuries go, the last three seasons he's started 32, 24, and 34 games. He's a strikeout pitcher extraordinare but can be a little wild and best of all he's not prone to the home run. If the Reds can get him instead of Bedard and give up less, then WK has done a hell of a job. They absolutely should go after him.

Redsfan08
12-17-2007, 05:22 PM
The day Scott Kazmir becomes a red is when I will be first in line for season tickets

thatcoolguy_22
12-17-2007, 05:58 PM
I hope Krivsky is talking to the Rays about this guy. I would actually prefer him to Bedard. I seriously doubt MacPhail will back off of his demand for Bruce in a EB deal, especially if Adam Jones plus Jeff Clement is on the table in Seattle. As much as I would want to get Bedard, trading Bruce for 2 years of him is just stupid.

Kazmir, on the other hand, would be under control with us for a lot longer than Bedard would. He also just happens to be 4 years younger with better K-numbers. Sure, his injury problems have been well documented, but none of his past injuries seem to be career-threatening. It probably wouldn't take Jay Bruce to bring him here, probably something more like a bat (Encarnacion) + some young pitching (Bailey) to get it done. He would fit perfectly into our rotation as a much-needed #2 starter. Let's say the deal looks like this:

Homer Bailey, Edwin Encarnacion, Travis Wood, Josh Roenicke, and Janish/Valaika for Kazmir

That gives us a rotation of:

Harang
Kazmir
Arroyo
Belisle
FA/Cueto/Maloney

With that kind of rotation added to the Cordero signing with our offense, and we'll take the NL Central with ease. Thoughts?

You honestly believe it wouldn't take Jay F'ing Bruce to get Kazmir? Carl Crawford will be gone shortly, Baldelli is as injury prone as KGJ circa 2001 and that leaves BJ Upton as the only real talent left in the OF...


Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
2004 20 TBD AL 2 3 8 7 0 0 0 0 33.3 33 22 21 4 21 41 2 3 152 0 0 5.67 4.54 80 1.620
2005 21 TBD AL 10 9 32 32 0 0 0 0 186.0 172 90 78 12 100 174 10 7 818 3 1 3.77 4.36 116 1.462 RoY-9
2006 22 TBD AL 10 8 24 24 1 1 0 0 144.7 132 59 52 15 52 163 2 6 610 3 0 3.24 4.61 142 1.272 AS
2007 23 TBD AL 13 9 34 34 0 0 0 0 206.7 196 91 80 18 89 239 7 10 887 1 0 3.48 4.52 130 1.379

Kazmir averaged 1.15 K/IP in what is arguably the toughest offensive division in baseball. Throw in the fact he is a power throwing Lefthander who happens to turn 24 next month and you need a package including at LEAST Bruce.


Kazmir boasts heat that tops out around 97 mph and regularly pitches in the mid-90s. He also has a great slider and emerging change-up.
according to http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Scott_Kazmir/

I would rather have Kazmir than Santana at this point. (That argument is for another thread btw BUT I will battle anyone through modem lines if you want to get it started :cool: )

For Kazmir you are looking at a MINIMUM of Bruce, Bailey, Maloney and a C prospect. Kazmir still has 2 years of arbitration ('08 and '09) and that will leave us with 2 years to work out a LTC. He should be our 1st target with Bedard as the fall out option. However with the recent trade for Matt Garza the Rays have put themselves into a position to compete in the coming years and may not be willing to trade away Kazmir. (who could very easily be the best pitcher in all of baseball by 2009.


Kind of ticky tacky but why would the Rays be interested in EE? He is only a slight improvement over Iwamura and that in itself is worthy of its own debate.

BucksandReds
12-17-2007, 08:20 PM
Why would you trade Bruce, Bailey and someone else for 2 years of Kazmir? Bruce is not tradeable. With 6 years of cheap play ahead of him Bruce for Johan Santana is a bad decision for us as a team in our situation.

thatcoolguy_22
12-17-2007, 08:43 PM
Why would you trade Bruce, Bailey and someone else for 2 years of Kazmir? Bruce is not tradeable. With 6 years of cheap play ahead of him Bruce for Johan Santana is a bad decision for us as a team in our situation.


"We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; The SunDeck is the mental institution of the universe."

-Johann von Goethe

(I took a few liberties with the original quote ;) )

How about 6 cheap years of Howington, Gruler, Sardinha, and Larson for Scott Kazmir? Jay Bruce has proven absolutely nothing on the major league level. Kazmir on the other hand is a better pitcher than the beloved Harang and, its not even close.

757690
12-17-2007, 08:56 PM
How about 6 cheap years of Howington, Gruler, Sardinha, and Larson for Scott Kazmir? Jay Bruce has proven absolutely nothing on the major league level. Kazmir on the other hand is a better pitcher than the beloved Harang and, its not even close.

First, that is a very unfair comparison.. None of the guys you listed were ever in anyone's top 25 best prospects in the minors, while Bruce is universally considered the best prospect in all of baseball.

Look at the past #1 best prospects. About the only one in recent history that did not become an All-Star is Josh Hamilton, and I think we know what happened to him.

However, I agree that Kazmir is worth Bruce, but I doubt that the Rays would even accept Bruce and Bailey. I think it would take at least Bruce, Bailey, Cueto and one more good prospect to get Kazmir. The Rays don't want to trade him, but will if someone is willing to overpay.

thatcoolguy_22
12-17-2007, 09:02 PM
First, that is a very unfair comparison.. None of the guys you listed were ever in anyone's top 25 best prospects in the minors, while Bruce is universally considered the best prospect in all of baseball.

Look at the past #1 best prospects. About the only one in recent history that did not become an All-Star is Josh Hamilton, and I think we know what happened to him.

However, I agree that Kazmir is worth Bruce, but I doubt that the Rays would even accept Bruce and Bailey. I think it would take at least Bruce, Bailey, Cueto and one more good prospect to get Kazmir. The Rays don't want to trade him, but will if someone is willing to overpay.
* 1981 - Mike Marshall (1B)
* 1982 - Ron Kittle (OF)
* 1983 - Dwight Gooden (P)
* 1984 - Mike Bielecki (P)
* 1985 - José Canseco (OF
* 1986 - Gregg Jefferies (SS)
* 1987 - Gregg Jefferies (SS)
* 1988 - Tom Gordon (P)
* 1989 - Sandy Alomar (C)
* 1990 - Frank Thomas (1B)
* 1991 - Derek Bell (OF)
* 1992 - Tim Salmon (OF)
* 1993 - Manny Ramírez (OF)
* 1994 - Derek Jeter (SS)
* 1995 - Andruw Jones (OF)
* 1996 - Andruw Jones (OF)
* 1997 - Paul Konerko (1B)
* 1998 - Eric Chavez (3B)
* 1999 - Rick Ankiel (P)
* 2000 - Jon Rauch (P)
* 2001 - Josh Beckett (P)
* 2002 - Rocco Baldelli (OF)
* 2003 - Joe Mauer (C)
* 2004 - Jeff Francis (P)
* 2005 - Delmon Young (OF)
* 2006 - Alex Gordon (3B)
* 2007 - Jay Bruce (OF)

While in VERY good company being the minor league player of the year is not a Guarantee that he will be a perennial all-star.

Unless Kazmir is injured he will be a guarantee...

Also I agree it will probably take more than what I proposed but that is what I expect it to take to get in the same ball park as the Rays

757690
12-17-2007, 09:20 PM
* 1986 - Gregg Jefferies (SS)
* 1987 - Gregg Jefferies (SS)
* 1988 - Tom Gordon (P)
* 1989 - Sandy Alomar (C)
* 1990 - Frank Thomas (1B)
* 1991 - Derek Bell (OF)
* 1992 - Tim Salmon (OF)
* 1993 - Manny Ramírez (OF)
* 1994 - Derek Jeter (SS)
* 1995 - Andruw Jones (OF)
* 1996 - Andruw Jones (OF)
* 1997 - Paul Konerko (1B)
* 1998 - Eric Chavez (3B)
* 1999 - Rick Ankiel (P)
* 2000 - Jon Rauch (P)
* 2001 - Josh Beckett (P)
* 2002 - Rocco Baldelli (OF)
* 2003 - Joe Mauer (C)
* 2004 - Jeff Francis (P)
* 2005 - Delmon Young (OF)
* 2006 - Alex Gordon (3B)
* 2007 - Jay Bruce (OF)

While in VERY good company being the minor league player of the year is not a Guarantee that he will be a perennial all-star.

Unless Kazmir is injured he will be a guarantee...

Also I agree it will probably take more than what I proposed but that is what I expect it to take to get in the same ball park as the Rays

Thanks for the list.

But you made my point. The only guys who didn't become perennial All-Stars were the ones that got injured, (and Jon Rauch,who was a very strange choice that year).

Would you trade a young Frank Thomas, or Tim Salmon, or Manny Ramírez, or Derek Jeter , or Andruw Jones, or Paul Konerko, or Eric Chavez, or Josh Beckett, plus Bailey, plus other top prospects for Kazmir?

thatcoolguy_22
12-17-2007, 09:29 PM
Thanks for the list.

But you made my point. The only guys who didn't become perennial All-Stars were the ones that got injured, (and Jon Rauch,who was a very strange choice that year).

Would you trade a young Frank Thomas, or Tim Salmon, or Manny Ramírez, or Derek Jeter , or Andruw Jones, or Paul Konerko, or Eric Chavez, or Josh Beckett, plus Bailey, plus other top prospects for Kazmir?


How about a greg jeffries, mike marshall, derek bell, tim salmon, Rick Ankiel, Rocco Baldelli or John Rauch as the center piece with a homer bailey + attachment? Most of these guys were very serviceable Major Leaguers but none were HOF type players. The majority of the list's indiviual success rate is incredibly high. However, most on this board believe it is a ticket into the HOF for a prospect to be called a young Larry Walker and named minor leaguer of the year

Bruce has the talent (as does Bailey) but hasn't proven he can hit at the major league level (besides look at his K rate, I'm not entirely convinced on all of the hype surrounding him). Also this time last year there were people saying they wouldn't center a deal around Homer for Kazmir now look where he has fallen...

Kazmir plays in the toughest division in baseball for any pitcher and still puts up remarkable numbers. Put Kazmir in the NL Central and watch him become one of the most dominant pitchers in all of baseball!

mlbfan30
12-17-2007, 09:53 PM
All-Star Appearences....
* 1986 - Gregg Jefferies (SS) - X
* 1987 - Gregg Jefferies (SS) - 2
* 1988 - Tom Gordon (P) - 3
* 1989 - Sandy Alomar (C) - 6
* 1990 - Frank Thomas (1B) - 5
* 1991 - Derek Bell (OF) - 0
* 1992 - Tim Salmon (OF) - 0
* 1993 - Manny Ramírez (OF) - 11
* 1994 - Derek Jeter (SS) - 8
* 1995 - Andruw Jones (OF) - X
* 1996 - Andruw Jones (OF) - 5
* 1997 - Paul Konerko (1B) - 3
* 1998 - Eric Chavez (3B) - 0
* 1999 - Rick Ankiel (P) - 0
* 2000 - Jon Rauch (P) - 0
* 2001 - Josh Beckett (P) - 1
* 2002 - Rocco Baldelli (OF) - 0
* 2003 - Joe Mauer (C) - 1
* 2004 - Jeff Francis (P) - 0
* 2005 - Delmon Young (OF) - 0
* 2006 - Alex Gordon (3B) - 0
* 2007 - Jay Bruce (OF) -0

Due to the fact they are younger, Since 2003 only 6 of the 16 players never made an all-star team. Looking at those who havn't are....

Bell - 11 seasons, 2 100 RBI seasons, 99OPS+
Salmon - 14 seasons, 300HR, .280/.385/.500 line, 128OPS+
Chavez - 10 seasons, 6 GG, 117 OPS+
Ankiel - 1 great season, you know the story
Rauch - decent middle reliever, 3.74 ERA
Baldelli - nice player but recently injury prone

Notice that every single player on the list has made the major leagues, and there are possibly 5 HOF players. Odds are that Bruce will be an all-star for several years based on this list, and he will be an above average major league. You need to go back to 1991 (Bell) to find even an average position player.

thatcoolguy_22
12-17-2007, 10:04 PM
Due to the fact they are younger, Since 2003 only 6 of the 16 players never made an all-star team. Looking at those who havn't are....

Bell - 11 seasons, 2 100 RBI seasons, 99OPS+
Salmon - 14 seasons, 300HR, .280/.385/.500 line, 128OPS+
Chavez - 10 seasons, 6 GG, 117 OPS+
Ankiel - 1 great season, you know the story
Rauch - decent middle reliever, 3.74 ERA
Baldelli - nice player but recently injury prone

Notice that every single player on the list has made the major leagues, and there are possibly 5 HOF players. Odds are that Bruce will be an all-star for several years based on this list, and he will be an above average major league. You need to go back to 1991 (Bell) to find even an average position player.



The point is being missed here...

The success rate of these players is not being argued. It is insanely high but, unless it leads to a dominant player 100% of the time (which it doesn't btw) then there is room for doubt.

This is really the age old debate of proven talent versus prospects with a new wrinkle being tossed in with the contract situations...

mlbfan30
12-17-2007, 10:07 PM
How about a greg jeffries, mike marshall, derek bell, tim salmon, Rick Ankiel, Rocco Baldelli or John Rauch as the center piece with a homer bailey + attachment? Most of these guys were very serviceable Major Leaguers but none were HOF type players. The majority of the list's indiviual success rate is incredibly high. However, most on this board believe it is a ticket into the HOF for a prospect to be called a young Larry Walker and named minor leaguer of the year

Bruce has the talent (as does Bailey) but hasn't proven he can hit at the major league level (besides look at his K rate, I'm not entirely convinced on all of the hype surrounding him). Also this time last year there were people saying they wouldn't center a deal around Homer for Kazmir now look where he has fallen...

Kazmir plays in the toughest division in baseball for any pitcher and still puts up remarkable numbers. Put Kazmir in the NL Central and watch him become one of the most dominant pitchers in all of baseball!

But are 3 years of kazmir worth more than 12 years of Bailey and Bruce. That would mean that Bailey + Bruce produce 1/4 less than Kazmir per year. The major knock on Bailey is his BB rate. Kazmir's BB rate is 4.13. His minors were 3.67. Bailey's minor BB/9 is 4.23. An extra walk every 18 IP. Kazmir is proven, but in Bailey is still a top 10 prospect in baseball and has potential to be a Kazmir type pitcher. Bruce will most likely provide an enormous amount of value. 6 Years of Bruce alone might be more than 3 years of Kazmir, but then adding more to this (Bailey) would make the Bruce/Bailey package have more value.

mlbfan30
12-17-2007, 10:12 PM
The point is being missed here...

The success rate of these players is not being argued. It is insanely high but, unless it leads to a dominant player 100% of the time (which it doesn't btw) then there is room for doubt.

This is really the age old debate of proven talent versus prospects with a new wrinkle being tossed in with the contract situations...

Yea, if you have an average prospect.....
THESE GUYS ARE TOP 10 PROSPECTS IN BASEBALL
Bruce IS the best prospect, and Bailey is in the top 10. ALSO, BOTH have had very good sucess at AAA and are ML Ready. The Chance that both don't have some type of positive value is very low. Historicly, the top prospect in baseball has become MLB regular players every single year. Bruce Will be an MLB regular, and will have 3 years of league minimum with 3 cost controlled arb years.

*BaseClogger*
12-17-2007, 10:18 PM
Yeah, thatcoolguy_22 I think the point that you are missing is that the prospects are cost-controlled for 6 years while the guys we get back in a trade would only be kept for a couple of years... I think the best way for this team to win is a combination of the prospects developing and spending some $$$ in the strong 2009 FA pitching class... 2009 looks like the year of the Reds...

gedred69
12-17-2007, 10:20 PM
The proposals on this thread to get Kazmir are getting, CUCKOO! (My head is starting to hurt).

Too much to think about, too much to figure out".
Todd Snyder.

thatcoolguy_22
12-17-2007, 10:23 PM
But are 3 years of kazmir worth more than 12 years of Bailey and Bruce. That would mean that Bailey + Bruce produce 1/4 less than Kazmir per year. The major knock on Bailey is his BB rate. Kazmir's BB rate is 4.13. His minors were 3.67. Bailey's minor BB/9 is 4.23. An extra walk every 18 IP. Kazmir is proven, but in Bailey is still a top 10 prospect in baseball and has potential to be a Kazmir type pitcher. Bruce will most likely provide an enormous amount of value. 6 Years of Bruce alone might be more than 3 years of Kazmir, but then adding more to this (Bailey) would make the Bruce/Bailey package have more value.

That is assuming we could not buy out Kazmir;s arbitration years and extend him in a LTC. Also Kazmir's k/9 rate has been over 10 in his last 2 years of major league service. Also tell me exactly how many pennants Harang, Arroyo, Dunn and, Griffey Jr have won in the last few years? The Reds have a window that will more than likely slam shut after the Arroyo/Harang contracts end and they start to decline. Kazmir would give the boost we need to dominate the NL central and make a serious push towards the WS. Also it will allow the rest of the offseason to find another RH bat and middle reliever

thatcoolguy_22
12-17-2007, 10:26 PM
Yea, if you have an average prospect.....
THESE GUYS ARE TOP 10 PROSPECTS IN BASEBALL
Bruce IS the best prospect, and Bailey is in the top 10. ALSO, BOTH have had very good sucess at AAA and are ML Ready. The Chance that both don't have some type of positive value is very low. Historicly, the top prospect in baseball has become MLB regular players every single year. Bruce Will be an MLB regular, and will have 3 years of league minimum with 3 cost controlled arb years.

Johann Santana was a RULE 5 draft pick! These lists are not the end all of prospect evaluation.

thatcoolguy_22
12-17-2007, 10:29 PM
Yeah, thatcoolguy_22 I think the point that you are missing is that the prospects are cost-controlled for 6 years while the guys we get back in a trade would only be kept for a couple of years... I think the best way for this team to win is a combination of the prospects developing and spending some $$$ in the strong 2009 FA pitching class... 2009 looks like the year of the Reds...

I understand that train of thought and concur but given the opportunity to grab a 24 year old, 3 years away from reaching his prime, Scott Kazmir for a Bruce/Bailey + I will choose to everytime.

Hondo
12-17-2007, 11:06 PM
I would BUY a House in Cincinnati and BUY Season Tickets if the Reds aquired Scott Kazmir...

Thanks

mlbfan30
12-18-2007, 12:04 AM
What does Santana have to do with anything? He ended up being very good after having an injury history. My arguement is that highly rated prospects have a better chance to be good than lower rated prospects, and the #1 overall prospect is as close to a sure thing as possible, considering every #1 guy has been a regular, and the majority all-stars. Also the LTC thing doesn't have any affect whatsoever. We wouldn't sign him to a LTC as where trading for him. There is no difference between a LTC as a free agent.

Your are saying how they havn't won with Griffey/Dunn/Aroyo/Harang....
and then say we need to trade players who are not them, for more players who are not them.... I don't get what your talking about. Dunn is a FA, and Griff can be FA after next year... that would leave an OF of just Hamilton. 2 OF positions need to be replaced, and Bruce should be one of them. Also how do you know Kazmir will be better than Bailey. Sure, he's done it before, but every prospect has to eventually play otherwise there would be no baseball. Bailey and Kazmir had similar hype as prospects as power arms with bad control, and to think Bailey won't help at all is just wrong. Bruce/Bailey give a better chance of winning in the next 3 years than Kazmir + FA to make up for Bruce

thatcoolguy_22
12-18-2007, 12:31 AM
What does Santana have to do with anything? He ended up being very good after having an injury history. My arguement is that highly rated prospects have a better chance to be good than lower rated prospects, and the #1 overall prospect is as close to a sure thing as possible, considering every #1 guy has been a regular, and the majority all-stars. Also the LTC thing doesn't have any affect whatsoever. We wouldn't sign him to a LTC as where trading for him. There is no difference between a LTC as a free agent.

Your are saying how they havn't won with Griffey/Dunn/Aroyo/Harang....
and then say we need to trade players who are not them, for more players who are not them.... I don't get what your talking about. Dunn is a FA, and Griff can be FA after next year... that would leave an OF of just Hamilton. 2 OF positions need to be replaced, and Bruce should be one of them. Also how do you know Kazmir will be better than Bailey. Sure, he's done it before, but every prospect has to eventually play otherwise there would be no baseball. Bailey and Kazmir had similar hype as prospects as power arms with bad control, and to think Bailey won't help at all is just wrong. Bruce/Bailey give a better chance of winning in the next 3 years than Kazmir + FA to make up for Bruce

Take a quick glance at the number of pitching prospects that reach their potential. It has the highest washout rate of all prospects. Brien Taylor, Now you can stand up...

The mention of Santana was to bring to light that perceived talent and actual ability are often 2 very different things. And no one can honestly predict what a player will do upon reaching the show.

The mention of how many pennants we have won with the current mega stars we have was to show that we can not compete by continuing to run out the same scrap heap of pitchers in the 3,4,5 slots along with the marginal talent that currently resides in our bullpen. However I do believe that with the current lineup someone like Kazmir (a legitimate #1 left handed starter, that has already gone through his growing pains) will allow us to compete for a WS THIS year along with 09.

To say that since we traded for him means that we will not attempt to sign him to a LTC is both asinine and narrow minded. With his arbitration years we have a 2 year window before he is a legitimate free agent to work out a contract.

Who is more likely to have a hall of fame career

21 year old current minor league player of the year with major league numbers of:


(intentionally left blank)

or a 24 year old left handed pitcher with the following major league lines:



Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
2004 20 TBD AL 2 3 8 7 0 0 0 0 33.3 33 22 21 4 21 41 2 3 152 0 0 5.67 4.54 80 1.620
2005 21 TBD AL 10 9 32 32 0 0 0 0 186.0 172 90 78 12 100 174 10 7 818 3 1 3.77 4.36 116 1.462 RoY-9
2006 22 TBD AL 10 8 24 24 1 1 0 0 144.7 132 59 52 15 52 163 2 6 610 3 0 3.24 4.61 142 1.272 AS
2007 23 TBD AL 13 9 34 34 0 0 0 0 206.7 196 91 80 18 89 239 7 10 887 1 0 3.48 4.52 130 1.379


or how about his neutralized stats of



Year Ag W L WL% IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP ERA WHIP ActG
+-------+---+---+-----+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+-----+------+----+
2004 20 1 2 .333 34.7 31 21 19 4 20 42 2 4.93 1.471 8
2005 21 12 9 .571 189.0 166 81 73 12 97 176 10 3.48 1.392 32
2006 22 11 5 .688 149.0 123 50 45 14 48 167 2 2.72 1.148 24
2007 23 14 9 .609 211.7 186 80 72 17 84 244 7 3.06 1.276 34

Let Kazmir unleash his 97mph fastball against the line ups of the Astros, Pirates, Cardinals, Cubs and Brewers instead of the Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays and Orioles and watch his numbers drop into the Johann Santana range.

To Boot Kazmir had a 47.2 VORP last year with a .339 BABIP. Drop his BABIP down to a more standard (instead of unlucky) .290 and you could see his VORP rise into the 56-60 range

I admit it is a lot to give up to receive his services but you have to trade talent to get talent.

BLEEDS
12-18-2007, 02:28 AM
Guys like the Rays don't trade guys like Kazmir.

They are the cheapest team in baseball. Why would they give up on 6 years of cheap pitching?

ONLY if we were to give them 6 years of cheap pitching AND 6 years of cheap hitting in return. Which, makes no sense for us.

Jay Bruce is ON THE SAME LEVEL as saying we get Ken Griffey Junior for his first 6 seasons in the majors. That is why we aren't considering trading him for anything less than a proven All-Star.

Now, back to reality, and the reality of trading a Homer Bailey/Josh Hamilton and MAYBE a Votto (whom I'm TOTALLY against trading) for a Bedard, but more likely a Blanton.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Hondo
12-18-2007, 02:56 AM
Who cares! The Rays sent Delmon Young to the Twins and he had another 6 years of Affordability?

The Rays will let someone take Kazmir...

I am Unrealistic and Greedy...

Wayne should Trade for Santana, Bedard, and Kazmir...

Win this Thing!

Thanks

thatcoolguy_22
12-18-2007, 03:28 AM
Guys like the Rays don't trade guys like Kazmir.

They are the cheapest team in baseball. Why would they give up on 6 years of cheap pitching?

ONLY if we were to give them 6 years of cheap pitching AND 6 years of cheap hitting in return. Which, makes no sense for us.

Jay Bruce is ON THE SAME LEVEL as saying we get Ken Griffey Junior for his first 6 seasons in the majors. That is why we aren't considering trading him for anything less than a proven All-Star.

Now, back to reality, and the reality of trading a Homer Bailey/Josh Hamilton and MAYBE a Votto (whom I'm TOTALLY against trading) for a Bedard, but more likely a Blanton.

PEACE

-BLEEDS


Seriously? Wow!

A mental giant has just entered the fray...

Kazmir not a proven all star? Blanton even mentioned in the same regard as Bedard? Kazmir somehow having 6 years still of "cheap" baseball? Bruce's first 6 years will be the equivalent to KGJ's? Rays unwillingness to trade top flight talent while receiving talent from the upper echelon of prospects in return?

Where should I start bashing this post?

*BaseClogger*
12-18-2007, 02:33 PM
Seriously? Wow!

A mental giant has just entered the fray...

Kazmir not a proven all star? Blanton even mentioned in the same regard as Bedard? Kazmir somehow having 6 years still of "cheap" baseball? Bruce's first 6 years will be the equivalent to KGJ's? Rays unwillingness to trade top flight talent while receiving talent from the upper echelon of prospects in return?

Where should I start bashing this post?

l...o...l...