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AmarilloRed
12-24-2007, 02:07 AM
We now have a fair number of pitchers competing for the rotation next spring. Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, and Belisle have realistic chances of making the rotation; with Shearn and Maloney available in the future. I was just wondering if this means we are done as far as starting pitching, or if we could still seek to sign a veteran SP thru free agency. It might very well be worth it to add a Lieber, Jennings, or Livan Hernandez if it could be done.

Bigredfan#1
12-24-2007, 02:11 AM
I still will not be surprized if we get Bedard. According to USA today they have dropped their demand to have Bruce. I still think it is a mistake to move Bailey but believe they probably will if a deal can be worked out where they don't have to give up Cueto as well.

ChatterRed
12-24-2007, 02:39 AM
If we only have to trade Bailey and maybe Maloney for Bedard, I would jump at that.

Harang
Bedard
Arroyo
Volquez
Belisle/Cueto/Lieber?

Bip Roberts
12-24-2007, 09:26 AM
I do not think we are

Hondo
12-24-2007, 10:38 AM
This is Classic. Have a Potential 40 Homer Centerfielder and trade him for a 27 year old RHP from South America or something... I think Wayne is trying to find a Carmona (Cleveland)...

Don't like the trade unless this guy wins 16 Games...

Thanks

NorrisHopper30
12-24-2007, 10:45 AM
This is Classic. Have a Potential 40 Homer Centerfielder and trade him for a 27 year old RHP from South America or something... I think Wayne is trying to fien a Carmona (Cleveland)...

Don't like the trade unless this guy wins 16 Games...

Thanks

-The 27 year old is Hamilton
-The 24 year old is Volquez
-He's from the Dominican Republic
-I doubt the Indians have inspired Krivsky to find a "carmona", but rather he is building up our young pitching depth.

Hondo
12-24-2007, 11:02 AM
Thats fine, but Hamilton should have brought more...

The Carmona line was Sarcasm...

Thanks

*BaseClogger*
12-24-2007, 11:46 AM
-The 27 year old is Hamilton
-The 24 year old is Volquez
-He's from the Dominican Republic
-I doubt the Indians have inspired Krivsky to find a "carmona", but rather he is building up our young pitching depth.

Now this was the classic post...

Krawhitham
12-24-2007, 11:50 AM
Thats fine, but Hamilton should have brought more...

The Carmona line was Sarcasm...

Thanks


Yes he should have, even the Texas press when the trade was only a rumor was saying it would take a lot more to get Josh than Volquez

BLEEDS
12-24-2007, 11:56 AM
I think we still have 2-3 spots left in the rotation.

The likelihood of success by starting Beliesle and two of the four guys mentioned is very small.

IMO, Cueto doesn't make the starting roster - nor should he. He's got about as many innnings of AAA ball as Homer does with the Reds. Cueto should be an '09 prospect - or an '08 "we are out of it" call-up, a la Homer.

Belisle SHOULD be a #5, but with the current roster, he'd be #3, where he'd be SEVERELY overmatched.

We'd be best to trade Cueto in a deal for Bedard, however I'm against trading Votto, so who knows how much longer we might have to "wait" for the O's to get down that far.

Heck, if trading Hamilton for Ensinado only accomplished getting the O's off of the Jay Bruce demands, that's good enough for me!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Hondo
12-24-2007, 12:49 PM
If Krivisky was building up the Pitching Prospects? I wish he'd gotton a Pitching Prospect...

Texas has no reason to give away "Good" Pitching... But the did give away Chris Young to the Padres so who knows...

Anyhow... This guy Wayne needs to Trade for Santana and Bedard or sit tight and see what the kids can do...

Thanks

AmarilloRed
12-24-2007, 01:05 PM
Edinson Volquez really has had a strong comeback the last year. There is no reason he could not be our #3. Matt Belisle is a good starter, and he has the talent to be our #4. That will leave Bailey/Cueto to fight it out for the #5 spot, ant the loser to develop in AAA.
I still would like the Reds to try and sign Livan Hernandez for a couple of years, but I would be content for the kids to make up the back end of the rotation.

Hondo
12-24-2007, 01:07 PM
I would really rather have No. 1's to Compete...

Thanks

BigREDSfaninKY
12-24-2007, 01:19 PM
Do you think the Reds have the idea of flipping Volquez in a deal with the O's for Bedard?

SMcGavin
12-24-2007, 01:22 PM
Don't think we are to the point where we can say "we're done", but I am pretty happy about what we've got right now.

Dracodave
12-24-2007, 01:34 PM
If Krivisky was building up the Pitching Prospects? I wish he'd gotton a Pitching Prospect...

Texas has no reason to give away "Good" Pitching... But the did give away Chris Young to the Padres so who knows...


Thier FO is about as dumb as Jimbo.

Danks, Masset and Ranser went to the White Sox for McCarthy in possibly the DUMBEST move I've ever seen from a team that NEEDS Pitching as bad as the Reds.

I don't trust Texas' evaluation of pitchers at all. Danks > McCarthy

fadetoblack2880
12-24-2007, 01:44 PM
I would really rather have No. 1's to Compete...

Thanks

I agree with you 100%. Castellini says he wants to win now. Getting a proven starter will make that process much easier. Open the wallet and go after Santana. Forget Bedard and his less than 200 IP and injuries.

AdamDunn
12-24-2007, 01:56 PM
I say we sign a Colon/Clement or someone cheap to compete for the #5 spot.

schmidty622
12-24-2007, 02:05 PM
I wouldn't mind Clement in an incentive heavy deal at all.

ChatterRed
12-24-2007, 02:25 PM
Posters on this board continually forget we are a small market team and need to establish some of our prospects in our major league lineup to compete. We can't dish out $100 million like the big boys.

Hondo
12-24-2007, 04:19 PM
I wouldn't mind Clement in an incentive heavy deal at all.

I'm not on the Clement Band Wagon what so ever... That guy would just be a waste of Money...

Thanks

BLEEDS
12-24-2007, 04:28 PM
We can't dish out $100 million like the big boys.

Yes we could, actually.

We could support a $100M payroll if we WON 90 games a year. We would put butts in the seats, and sell playoff tickets like Madmen.

It's a double-edged sword. Have to spend the money to get the wins first, not vice-versa.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Orenda
12-24-2007, 04:37 PM
Posters on this board continually forget we are a small market team and need to establish some of our prospects in our major league lineup to compete. We can't dish out $100 million like the big boys.

I disagree I think this franchise could spend that kind of money if it was producing a winner. But just because you have the money to spend doesn't mean that you should, or that it will guarantee that you'll compete. If the reds had a strong young successful core I could see Castellini keeping the main pieces together through extensions, while bringing along the younger players to fill other roles.

_Sir_Charles_
12-24-2007, 04:44 PM
I wouldn't mind picking up a solid #3 or 4 veteran starter via FA or trade, but that's it. I could also deal with what we've got. The only thing I do want is for us to NOT trade any of the top 3 or 4 pitching prospects, Bruce or Votto. Dealing EE or AGon for a starter is certainly an option though. Keppinger is ready to be a starter and he can easily slip in at 3rd or SS imo. Personally I'd prefer to deal AGon. EE's bat is still too valuable.

Dracodave
12-24-2007, 04:50 PM
Kepp's range at short stop is bad. I really wish we could trade for a good shortstop prospect and a #3..

_Sir_Charles_
12-24-2007, 04:58 PM
Kepp's range at short stop is bad. I really wish we could trade for a good shortstop prospect and a #3..

I keep trying to tell people this. His range isn't bad at SS or at any of the infield positions. It's simply the fact that he gets moved around so darned often that he's seeing the ball come off the bat at different angles and isn't getting a quick enough jump on the ball. Given full time work at ONE position, his range improves.

Hondo
12-24-2007, 04:59 PM
I agree with you 100%. Castellini says he wants to win now. Getting a proven starter will make that process much easier. Open the wallet and go after Santana. Forget Bedard and his less than 200 IP and injuries.

Yes!

Someone that agrees with me finally, although we may be on an Island here...

Santana is a FRANCHISE difference Maker...

Thanks

Dracodave
12-24-2007, 05:04 PM
I keep trying to tell people this. His range isn't bad at SS or at any of the infield positions. It's simply the fact that he gets moved around so darned often that he's seeing the ball come off the bat at different angles and isn't getting a quick enough jump on the ball. Given full time work at ONE position, his range improves.


You may have a point, I'll take a look at it later. I'll see what I can dig up about him on a minor league basis as well.


Last year at shortstop...

RFg lgRFg
3.96 4.00

HE was only .04 off the league average at shortstop...which his average to me beats out.

AmarilloRed
12-24-2007, 05:10 PM
Yes!

Someone that agrees with me finall, although we may be on an Island here...

Santana is a FRANCHISE difference Maker...

Thanks

I would be very surprised if anyone other than the Yankees or Red Sox was involved in the Santana sweepstakes. You would need to committ to Santana for a minimum of 6 years and pay 20-25 million a year, in addition to giving up some prime prospects to land him. I think Krivsky is satisfied that Bailey and Cueto are our franchise makers.

Dracodave
12-24-2007, 05:15 PM
I would be very surprised if anyone other than the Yankees or Red Sox was involved in the Santana sweepstakes. You would need to committ to Santana for a minimum of 6 years and pay 20-25 million a year, in addition to giving up some prime prospects to land him. I think Krivsky is satisfied that Bailey and Cueto are our franchise makers.


I guarentee you that Johan's decline last season wasnt a fluke. Even big arms flame out and I got a feeling Johans worse off than what they say..theres a reason why Minnesota wants to cash him in now for big return outside of the money to sign him.

Hondo
12-24-2007, 06:04 PM
I'll take that 3.33 ERA and 15 wins a year for 7 years @ 140 Million...

Thanks

Oxilon
12-24-2007, 06:24 PM
I guarentee you that Johan's decline last season wasnt a fluke. Even big arms flame out and I got a feeling Johans worse off than what they say..theres a reason why Minnesota wants to cash him in now for big return outside of the money to sign him.

Even if Johan declines over the next several seasons, he'd still be a #1 on every team. So what if he declines...he'd go from being one of the best pitchers of our era to an ace. That's a decline that I really wouldn't mind breaking the bank over.

757690
12-24-2007, 07:16 PM
I'll take that 3.33 ERA and 15 wins a year for 7 years @ 140 Million...

Thanks

Yeah, but odds are that one of the Bailey/Cueto/Volquez trio will reach numbers close to that (3.75 ERA, 15 win), and they will not cost anywhere near $140M over the next seven years.
Also, you are looking at Santana not being near that good in the last 2-3 years of his 7 year contract.

Hondo
12-24-2007, 07:35 PM
If you are debating me on the the plus/minus of acquiring Johan Santana, I don't care if he only wins 8-10 Games the last 3 years. Look at the Mets signing Pedro?

Sometimes you have to overpay for talent to rebuild a contender...

Detroit Tigers? Magglio Ordonez & Ivan Rodriguez...

I want the Reds to Win...

Thanks

Lockdwn11
12-24-2007, 07:49 PM
This is Classic. Have a Potential 40 Homer Centerfielder and trade him for a 27 year old RHP from South America or something... I think Wayne is trying to find a Carmona (Cleveland)...

Don't like the trade unless this guy wins 16 Games...

Thanks

Shouldn't you know something about the guy before you form an opinion about the trade?

Hondo
12-24-2007, 07:59 PM
Shouldn't you know something about the guy before you form an opinion about the trade?

I meant Twenty Something...

He still is not the Savior or Prospect this team needs to contend...

He is a Question Mark at Best

Thanks

Lockdwn11
12-24-2007, 08:07 PM
I meant Twenty Something...

He still is not the Savior or Prospect this team needs to contend...

He is a Question Mark at Best

Thanks

Ok you say he is not a prospect but what do you know of him to form that opinion? I would just like to know because you didn't know where he was from or how old he was so how much can you know about the guy or what kinda pitcher he is or will be ? Hamilton had some Question marks as well.

Hondo
12-24-2007, 08:12 PM
He is a 24 year old (27 was a really far off age split I know) That was Sarcasm... Pitcher who the Rangers let go... I have a place in Fort Worth which is right next to Arlington... I keep track of the Rangers cause I went to the Games... And such...

I am not the Expert that is going to break out WHIPS, NAPS, KATS, NASA, and NAACP out to impress anyone...

But Josh Hamilton had Greater Value that those Scrubs

Thanks

Lockdwn11
12-24-2007, 08:19 PM
He is a 24 year old (27 was a really far off age split I know) That was Sarcasm... Pitcher who the Rangers let go... I have a place in Fort Worth which is right next to Arlington... I keep track of the Rangers cause I went to the Games... And such...

I am not the Expert that is going to break out WHIPS, NAPS, KATS, NASA, and NAACP out to impress anyone...

But Josh Hamilton had Greater Value that those Scrubs

Thanks

Thats cool everyone is entitle to thier opinion but I choose to learn/know something about a guy before I from a opinion on the player and from everything I have seen it looks to be a good deal for the Reds.

Hondo
12-24-2007, 08:21 PM
Thats cool everyone is entitle to thier opinion but I choose to learn/know something about a guy before I from a opinion on the player and from everything I have seen it looks to be a good deal for the Reds.

I don't think the guy is going to be what everyone here thinks...

I am more knocking the fact that Josh Hamilton could have been used in other Trades to get Better Pitchers than this...

Thanks

Betterread
12-24-2007, 08:27 PM
Thier FO is about as dumb as Jimbo.

Danks, Masset and Ranser went to the White Sox for McCarthy in possibly the DUMBEST move I've ever seen from a team that NEEDS Pitching as bad as the Reds.

I don't trust Texas' evaluation of pitchers at all. Danks > McCarthy


I agree with this analysis. Danks is impressive.

Lockdwn11
12-24-2007, 08:27 PM
I don't think the guy is going to be what everyone here thinks...

I am more knocking the fact that Josh Hamilton could have been used in other Trades to get Better Pitchers than this...

Thanks

I'm pretty sure the Reds tried to make other trades involving Hamilton but a guys value is what others are willing to pay for him.

Betterread
12-24-2007, 08:29 PM
I guarentee you that Johan's decline last season wasnt a fluke. Even big arms flame out and I got a feeling Johans worse off than what they say..theres a reason why Minnesota wants to cash him in now for big return outside of the money to sign him.
What decline? He is being shopped because he wants more than 100 Million and the Twins are willing to go only 4 or 5 years.

AmarilloRed
12-24-2007, 09:01 PM
This is only conjecture,but Krivsky seems to want to hold onto his top prospects. I don't think we will see a trade for Bedard or Santana, because they would cost too many top prospects. We could see him attempt to trade for Joe Blanton, because that could be done with mortgaging the farm. A lesser trade like that or the Reds attempting to sign a veteran starting pitcher is something I still see the Reds trying to do.

Dracodave
12-24-2007, 09:15 PM
To those who say what decline, I really dont think Johan will ever hit a sub 3 era again, I believe he will now hover between low three and mid three, maybe four. He's degressed that much atleast, I'll say.

Thats just my opinion. I don't think ANY player pitcher or not is worth the contracts that half these players have gotten over the last two to three years either. This includes the Reds signing of Codero. I'm not really thrilled over any contract..even if it is Johan.

Want to bring up Pedro? He's been injured how much lately? Was he worth it? Not in my eyes, I don't care how bound for the HOF he is. You want a good rotation that you can constantly win with, you do what Beane does. Get players (Draft or trades), make them extremely good, and flip them for rookies who look just as good. You don't just flip out 20m/y deal over 506 years to a pitcher..its dumb.

thatcoolguy_22
12-25-2007, 02:01 PM
I don't think the guy is going to be what everyone here thinks...

I am more knocking the fact that Josh Hamilton could have been used in other Trades to get Better Pitchers than this...

Thanks

I think what everyone thinks he is, is a 24 year old righty with 2 different 95+ fastballs, 80-85 changeup, and the curveball in progress.

Thanks

I think you are being a typical Reds fan in the fact that you think Josh Hamilton didn't get enough of a return...

Thanks

Talent must be traded to get talent

Thanks

Johann Santana will never wear a Redlegs uniform. He is the LAST person WK should go after. The Reds can not afford to pay him 25 million a year for years 5, 6, and, 7 when he has a 4.75 ERA with a 1.45 WHIP.

Thanks

No one is touting Volquez as the savior of this franchise. No one thought Hamilton was either. This is purely a situation of us trading a perceived strength for an actual weakness and Texas following suit.

Thanks

Lockdwn11
12-25-2007, 03:33 PM
I think what everyone thinks he is, is a 24 year old righty with 2 different 95+ fastballs, 80-85 changeup, and the curveball in progress.

Thanks

I think you are being a typical Reds fan in the fact that you think Josh Hamilton didn't get enough of a return...

Thanks

Talent must be traded to get talent

Thanks

Johann Santana will never wear a Redlegs uniform. He is the LAST person WK should go after. The Reds can not afford to pay him 25 million a year for years 5, 6, and, 7 when he has a 4.75 ERA with a 1.45 WHIP.

Thanks

No one is touting Volquez as the savior of this franchise. No one thought Hamilton was either. This is purely a situation of us trading a perceived strength for an actual weakness and Texas following suit.

Thanks

What he said.

BucksandReds
12-25-2007, 04:34 PM
ditto. People who don't know baseball are the only ones that think that this was an awful trade. Remember I used the word awful. Slight changes in perception could lead anyone to slightly favor one side over the other but there is no one in baseball that would call this an awful trade for the Reds.

Hondo
12-26-2007, 07:46 PM
I think what everyone thinks he is, is a 24 year old righty with 2 different 95+ fastballs, 80-85 changeup, and the curveball in progress.

Thanks

I think you are being a typical Reds fan in the fact that you think Josh Hamilton didn't get enough of a return...

Thanks

Talent must be traded to get talent

Thanks

Johann Santana will never wear a Redlegs uniform. He is the LAST person WK should go after. The Reds can not afford to pay him 25 million a year for years 5, 6, and, 7 when he has a 4.75 ERA with a 1.45 WHIP.

Thanks

No one is touting Volquez as the savior of this franchise. No one thought Hamilton was either. This is purely a situation of us trading a perceived strength for an actual weakness and Texas following suit.

Thanks

Wow, Try and be respectful and "Cool Guy" shows me the Welcoming Commitee Door?

Hmm?

I don't think I am a Typical Reds Fan...

I believe Volquez is a Waste of a Potetial Trade piece in Josh Hamilton...

You are right though. Volquez is not the Savior and as long as this team Keeps trading for Re-Treads such as him and Wasting talent (Hamilton), well, Sub 500 Baseball is all you are ever going to achieve...

No one on this Post thought that this team should or would ever pay a Closer of all people 46 Million over 4 years, but guess what? That just Happened...

Oh and...

Thanks

gedred69
12-26-2007, 08:55 PM
While I hate to see Josh go, and believe his talent is such as to be a perrenial all-star, He will have to prove himself to be a bit sturdier than the "fragile" label, before any GM would mortgage the farm for him. How quickly it is forgotten that repeated injuries early in his Minor League career, and the resulting down time, is how he ended up in the downward vortex in the 1st place. Then, he was down for maintainence 3X last season. With Bruce, Dorn, et.al. looking good in the OF future, and a number of hitting IF guys who could very well prove to be good transfers to the OF, JH was expendable. Granted, EV has some proving to do, but pitching is still the biggest hole to fill. I would liken him to Homer as to this could be the year they are ready to produce at the MLB level. There are signs it could be.

Newman4
12-26-2007, 09:06 PM
I like Hamilton and granted he tore it up when he played. But, several injuries in his first season back and, at 27, he isn't exactly a "prospect". Also, putting all your eggs in one basket based on a partial season is a risk. Volquez is a risk as well, but he's 3 years younger and about as highly regarded pitching prospect you could expect for a 26, soon to be 27 year old rookie with one good partial, injury-riddled season under his belt. If the idea was to trade Hamilton to free up the position for Jay Bruce, then in acquiring Volquez, I give him an A grade.

AmarilloRed
12-26-2007, 11:13 PM
The Reds seem to have gotten an impressive pitching prospect in Volquez, but there really is no way of telling until we see them on the field. Josh Hamilton is a very good player when on the field, but he had trouble staying healthy in 2007. I will continue to keep close tabs on Hamilton however, as I live in Texas and will be able to watch him on the Rangers TV games. As for further pitching moves, I would still be expecting the Reds to trade or sign a further veteran pitcher. It might be best to give both Bailey and Cueto more time at AAA.

SultanOfSwing
12-27-2007, 02:53 AM
A good GM is never finished looking for starting pitching, or any pitching for that matter. It is an unquenchable resource.

Lockdwn11
12-27-2007, 06:05 PM
Wow, Try and be respectful and "Cool Guy" shows me the Welcoming Commitee Door?

Hmm?

I don't think I am a Typical Reds Fan...

I believe Volquez is a Waste of a Potetial Trade piece in Josh Hamilton...

You are right though. Volquez is not the Savior and as long as this team Keeps trading for Re-Treads such as him and Wasting talent (Hamilton), well, Sub 500 Baseball is all you are ever going to achieve...

No one on this Post thought that this team should or would ever pay a Closer of all people 46 Million over 4 years, but guess what? That just Happened...

Oh and...

Thanks

OK,I will try this one more time you said "I believe Volquez is a Waste of a Potential Trade piece in Josh Hamilton..." Why What do you know about the guy that makes you think this?

I already know the answer and it is you know nothing about the guy! All you know is you are a big Josh Hamilton fan ( I'm a fan as well) and you are mad the Reds traded off one of your favorites.

Please tell me I am wrong and prove to me you know something/anything about Volquez.I mean the fact that you call him a re-tread is laughable the guy is only 24 years old! I am in noway riping on you but I am riping on your posts.

Lockdwn11
06-22-2008, 03:28 PM
Here are some interesting views of Volquez shortly after the trade I wonder if there are any different opiions now that we see what we got?

Hondo
06-22-2008, 04:01 PM
Here are some interesting views of Volquez shortly after the trade I wonder if there are any different opiions now that we see what we got?

Ok so I was WRONG... But based on Volquez stellar career numbers coming into the 2008 Season... Who would have thunk it...

I was right about Hamilton being the Real Deal though...

So I ate half crow... It is still crow...

I admit, I was wrong.

Hondo
06-22-2008, 04:02 PM
OK,I will try this one more time you said "I believe Volquez is a Waste of a Potential Trade piece in Josh Hamilton..." Why What do you know about the guy that makes you think this?

I already know the answer and it is you know nothing about the guy! All you know is you are a big Josh Hamilton fan ( I'm a fan as well) and you are mad the Reds traded off one of your favorites.

Please tell me I am wrong and prove to me you know something/anything about Volquez.I mean the fact that you call him a re-tread is laughable the guy is only 24 years old! I am in noway riping on you but I am riping on your posts.

Oh, and there is ZERO chance you saw Volquez's season coming in at 10-2 leading the Majors in K's and ERA...

Lockdwn11
06-22-2008, 04:03 PM
Ok so I was WRONG... But based on Volquez stellar career numbers coming into the 2008 Season... Who would have thunk it...

The REDS front office did.

Lockdwn11
06-22-2008, 04:05 PM
Oh, and there is ZERO chance you saw Volquez's season coming in at 10-2 leading the Majors in K's and ERA...

Nope but unlike you most of us saw the potential to do just that.

Hondo
06-22-2008, 04:25 PM
Nope but unlike you most of us saw the potential to do just that.

Dude, I lived in Texas at the time, and saw Volquez get Blown up in the Majors, and Blasted by Local Media, and when he was sent down to A-Ball...

Everyone thought he was finished...

So, no, I didn't read scouting reports obviously like you did... :rolleyes:

But maybe the Reds Scouting Department saw something in him...

Oh, and at the Time... The Rangers organization and ALL the Media in Dallas-Ft.Worth thought they stole Hamilton from Cincinnati at the time...

I already admitted I was wrong, but I am going to have to say the Reds didn't see this coming and we are ALL Lucky Edinson is doing as well as he is considering Josh Hamilton's season...

Oh, and on your previous Post... I didn't disagree with the Trade because Hamilton was one of my favorites... It was based on performance...

Volquez was 3-11, and had given up 111 hits in 80 Innings... He was being Shelled...

Hamilton his 19 Homers in basically half a season and 1/3 of the AB's so at the time he projected to have a better future and Production...

I said I was wrong, but if you wanna go all Crystal Ball on me... You are just, um, nevermind... To come in here and say "I told ya so"

Whatever...

ChatterRed
06-22-2008, 08:22 PM
I knew Volquez would be awesome. I already knew Hamilton was. ;)

Orodle
06-22-2008, 09:02 PM
you are never done looking for pitching especially since the Reds are ranked #22 in pitching at the moment.

Kingspoint
06-23-2008, 03:11 AM
Apparently once Krivsky was fired, the REDS were done doing anything.

What has Walt done since then other than release players that Krivsky might have gotten something for?

I said it before about Jockety and I still believe it, that all he's good for is writing big checks. If he ends up making 1/3 of the great deals that Krivsky made I'll be shocked.

Deals like Ben Jukich for a CF with a broken leg, and the prospect that the REDS got for Jeff Conine from the Mets last year. It's those kind of deals in addition to the Arroyo's, Hamilton's, Phillips', Volquez', and Thompson's that improve an organization.

To get nothing for Hatteberg, Andy Phillips, etc. shows me the Jockety that I know. I'm 100% certain that he works half as hard as Krivsky did. If the Mariner's owners had half a brain, they'd get Krivksy after his contract expires with the Mets this October. They should have grabbed him beforehand because they have a mess to clean up. They could really use Krivsky right now. But, you have to be pretty stupid to hire Bavasi in the first place and really dumb to keep him around for five years while he destroyed one of the best minor league systems in all of baseball (Bavasi fired everyone of importance with the organization and put in his own people, including an excellent AAA Manager who's doing wonders elsewhere now. Which brings up another great point of Krivsky....the hiring of Rick Sweet for the REDS AAA farm team. Sweet is excellent at working with AAA players and getting them ready for the Majors. I hope Jockety doesn't do something stupid and get rid of him.). If Krivsky hadn't been fired, he might have been able to get C Jeff Clement from the Mariners while Bavasi was in panic mode (3-year contract for Johjima!? in May). But, thanks to the meddling of Jockety, we'll never know if that would have happened. I'm betting that it would have. You know Krivsky had to have had 20 on-going negotiations/talks out there in the frying pan about different minor and major league players when he was let go. He also wouldn't have rushed Thompson into the Majors this soon. That's not his style. His style is to "always be improving the organization, and if you're in a position in July to go for it without sacrificing the future, then you take a stab."

TN Red Fan
06-23-2008, 09:36 AM
What has Walt done since then other than release players that Krivsky might have gotten something for?

I said it before about Jockety and I still believe it, that all he's good for is writing big checks. If he ends up making 1/3 of the great deals that Krivsky made I'll be shocked.


If we could only genetically morph our past 3 GMs into one we might be able to create the super-GM. Take O'Brian's drafts, Krivsky scouring the league for quality cast-offs, and Jocketty making the big-ticket FA moves.