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Newman4
12-26-2007, 08:44 PM
Per mlbtraderumors:

Mariners Offering Three Players For Bedard?
On Monday, Phil Rogers wrote of the Mariners' continuing pursuit of Baltimore's Erik Bedard. He says the Ms are shopping a package including Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, and Yung Chi Chen. Rogers notes that the O's would probably require Brandon Morrow. This is the first time we've seen Chen's name as part of a Bedard deal. He doesn't fall within Seattle's top 14 prospects, according to Kevin Goldstein.

Our previous Bedard update came four days ago, with info supplied by Jeff Zrebiec and John Fay. At that time Andy MacPhail said there was a "strong likelihood" that Bedard is the Orioles' Opening Day starter in 2008.

For what it's worth, Rogers is a writer for the Chicago Tribune. Why he has the scoop is a question worth asking.

IMO, Bailey, Cueto and certainly Bruce are better prospects than any mentioned. Jones has one season (2007) of .900+ OPS in his minor league career and that was in the hitter friendly PCL. He's still very young, but at this point, I'd rather have our 3. Clement is 24, ML ready hitter but is average at best behind the plate.

Heck, Votto may be arguably better. In the comments, one poster states the Bailey/Votto offer is better. That's quite an understatement. :rolleyes:

AmarilloRed
12-26-2007, 11:28 PM
Jeff Clement is a 5 tool power hitting catcher(according to Baseball Prospectus), and Brendan Morrow is a young major-league ready reliever. I would not think the Mariners are taking this trade offer seriously, unless their demands have really fallen off. A comparable offer from the Reds might be Votto, Jared Burton, and 2 other prospects. I would make that trade in a minute.

BucksandReds
12-27-2007, 12:14 AM
They can take Bedard. Anything more than Bailey or Cueto and low level prospects is too much for 2 years of a guy that has ZERO complete seasons of baseball.

Newman4
12-27-2007, 12:53 AM
Jeff Clement is a 5 tool power hitting catcher(according to Baseball Prospectus), and Brendan Morrow is a young major-league ready reliever. I would not think the Mariners are taking this trade offer seriously, unless their demands have really fallen off. A comparable offer from the Reds might be Votto, Jared Burton, and 2 other prospects. I would make that trade in a minute.

I was thinking the same thing. I think the trade can get done without Bailey OR Cueto if that is anywhere close to a serious offer.

larks
12-27-2007, 01:08 AM
Jeff Clement is a 5 tool power hitting catcher(according to Baseball Prospectus), and Brendan Morrow is a young major-league ready reliever. I would not think the Mariners are taking this trade offer seriously, unless their demands have really fallen off. A comparable offer from the Reds might be Votto, Jared Burton, and 2 other prospects. I would make that trade in a minute.

I would think that the Mariners package would trump that Reds package. Jones > Votto or Clement or Morrow > Burton.This is not to to say the rumored Mariners package would be a great idea for the Mariners. They would be overpaying in my opinion. If the Marlins only got two top tier prospects for Cabrera AND Willis, and more importantly if Oakland only got two fringe top tier prospects in Gonzalez and Anderson how can Baltimore honestly expect more than that for Bedard. Jones, Clement and Morrow for Bedard, a pitcher of lesser quality and reliability than Haren equals a serious overpayment by the Mariners. My bet is Bedard will be an Oriole come opening day with the current set of demands being made by the Orioles. However they are dealing with Bill Bavasi, the same man that thought it would be a great idea to trade Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez.

Newman4
12-27-2007, 01:43 AM
Bailey or Cueto/Votto is much, much better than anything the M's can come up with. Wait 'em out WK. See if they crack.

757690
12-27-2007, 01:51 AM
To be honest, I think WK is only offering Votto, Maloney, plus a lesser prospect for Bedard. That would be close to what the Mariners are offering.

Fay and others have mentioned that WK really does not want to trade Bailey or Cueto, since pitching is so hard to find. I think that is smart. Bedard would be a great addition, but he is not needed in order for the Reds to contend.

BEETTLEBUG
12-27-2007, 02:27 AM
How can we get Jeff Clement he would be great.

SultanOfSwing
12-27-2007, 02:50 AM
Right now I would try to avoid trading Votto, because of the offense he can provide. I would like to see him a little longer before trading him. However, it is a different story if the FO believes he will not be a truly special talent, but that does not seem to be the case. I would try to package a deal around lesser offensive prospects and Maloney and/or relief prospects. Quantity with some quality thrown in.

Maloney, Stubbs, Frazier, Lecure, Watson. Something along those lines. Substitute names the Orioles may prefer. That would be a very similar deal to the D-backs/A's trade. If the Orioles say no way, back away and see if they get any better offers.

However, if it came down to it, and I knew Bedard was available for one of the big 2 SP and a couple minor prospects, I would agree to Bailey/Cueto. Whichever the brass favors less. With the current roster, I would rather trade pitching for pitching that offense for pitching.

AmarilloRed
12-27-2007, 10:22 AM
The Adam Jones File

Draft: First round, 2003
Bats: R Throws: R
Height: 6-2
Weight: 200

After being drafted as a shortstop, Jones has made a seamless transition to the outfield, where his plus-speed gives him good range in center that will get better when he improves his routes. His arm is an absolute cannon, rating as a 70 on the 20-to-80 scouting scale, with the potential to be the rare 80 if he can hone his accuracy. At the plate Jones should hit for a good average and has 20+ home run potential. While he has improved every year, he needs to tighten up his strike zone and remains susceptible to chasing breaking balls. A true five-tool talent, Jones has impact potential but still needs to make a number of adjustments to his game in order to reach it.

I was looking at his major league numbers, and was underwhelmed. It would seem Jones has the potential to be a 5 tool outfielder, with probably a lower ceiling than Jay Bruce. Jones and Clement are listed by Baseball Prospectus as 5 tool position players, and Brandon Morrow is a young major-league ready reliever. It is still short of the 3 prospects the Orioles are seeking, but I have my doubts the Reds could match the positional players the Mariners would offer.

BLEEDS
12-27-2007, 11:49 AM
Right now I would try to avoid trading Votto, because of the offense he can provide. I would like to see him a little longer before trading him. However, it is a different story if the FO believes he will not be a truly special talent, but that does not seem to be the case. I would try to package a deal around lesser offensive prospects and Maloney and/or relief prospects. Quantity with some quality thrown in.

Maloney, Stubbs, Frazier, Lecure, Watson. Something along those lines. Substitute names the Orioles may prefer. That would be a very similar deal to the D-backs/A's trade. If the Orioles say no way, back away and see if they get any better offers.

However, if it came down to it, and I knew Bedard was available for one of the big 2 SP and a couple minor prospects, I would agree to Bailey/Cueto. Whichever the brass favors less. With the current roster, I would rather trade pitching for pitching that offense for pitching.

Agree 100%.

Now that Hamilton is gone, we can't trade our other offensive guy from the "Fab Four".

I had wanted Bailey/Hamilton to be traded for Bedard initially. I never wanted to trade Votto, but would have been okay had we kept Hamilton and been able to land a Bedard/Haren.

Later, after reading up on Cueto v Bailey, I decided I'd rather trade Cueto. (He is more control-oriented, but lower ceiling; Bailey has control issues but has WAY more stuff and MUCH higher ceiling; IMO Cueto could be a #2, while Bailey is a potential #1). I'd still trade him in a package for Bedard, but NOT with Votto. IMO he can be a (forgive the metaphor) "Sean Casey on Steroids". He may not OPS .900 every year, but he's got the OBP and power you need from the corner infield spots to CONTEND for titles, and he should be cheap for ~5 years.

Cueto and fodder for Bedard. That's all.
I think WK can afford to wait now, especially since he landed a potential #2 SP for Hamilton already.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Newman4
12-27-2007, 12:26 PM
Amarillo, where did you find info stating Clement is "5 tools." Everything I have found says he has plus power, but average arm and not fast at all. If the O's are looking for position players, the Reds can't match that, but prospects in general.....the Reds system is better.

I had heard on the O's board that they don't like Votto due to his numbers v. LH.

mound_patrol
12-27-2007, 01:18 PM
Right now I would try to avoid trading Votto, because of the offense he can provide. I would like to see him a little longer before trading him. However, it is a different story if the FO believes he will not be a truly special talent, but that does not seem to be the case. I would try to package a deal around lesser offensive prospects and Maloney and/or relief prospects. Quantity with some quality thrown in.

Maloney, Stubbs, Frazier, Lecure, Watson. Something along those lines. Substitute names the Orioles may prefer. That would be a very similar deal to the D-backs/A's trade. If the Orioles say no way, back away and see if they get any better offers.

However, if it came down to it, and I knew Bedard was available for one of the big 2 SP and a couple minor prospects, I would agree to Bailey/Cueto. Whichever the brass favors less. With the current roster, I would rather trade pitching for pitching that offense for pitching.

We can't trade Frazier yet and I wouldn't trade him anyways. He's supposed to be a stud in the making at third. But I agree with everyone else that would should try and get the deal done with quantity and not top end quality.

hippie07
12-27-2007, 03:14 PM
Personally I'd rather trade EdE than Frazier... alotta things could happen between now and then, but the kid compares himself to Arod... lets see how this guy develops, IMO.

If a position player has to go - I perfer EdE over Votto because I don't mind Kepp at 3rd for a year to hold the spot for Frazier, but who would we have in the pipeline to replace Votto.. I think we should hang onto him, IMO.

EdE, Maloney, Stubbs, Wood, Lecure
(I would possibly substitute Cueto for Maloney if it got the deal done)

BEETTLEBUG
12-27-2007, 06:24 PM
Looks like a decent deal hippie07.

AmarilloRed
12-27-2007, 09:31 PM
Amarillo, where did you find info stating Clement is "5 tools." Everything I have found says he has plus power, but average arm and not fast at all. If the O's are looking for position players, the Reds can't match that, but prospects in general.....the Reds system is better.

I had heard on the O's board that they don't like Votto due to his numbers v. LH.

Baseball Prospectus. I recently became a Basic subscriber.