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WMR
12-29-2007, 11:12 PM
C'mon G-MEN -- YOU CAN DO IT

MWM
12-29-2007, 11:14 PM
Ain't gonna happen. Pats want the record too badly.

WMR
12-29-2007, 11:49 PM
Sheesh ... 50 touchdown passes for Brady for the season. :eek:

WMR
12-29-2007, 11:49 PM
23rd touchdown of the season for Randy Moss. :eek:

Yachtzee
12-30-2007, 12:30 AM
Pats win. On the one hand, they're very easy to hate. Aside from the natural jealousy of a perennial winner, they've been caught cheating and even tonight they couldn't resist playing dirty (esp. Wilfork and Harrison). On the other hand, maybe Shula and those putzes on the '72 Dolphins will shut their traps now.

Caveat Emperor
12-30-2007, 12:34 AM
Pats win. On the one hand, they're very easy to hate. Aside from the natural jealousy of a perennial winner, they've been caught cheating and even tonight they couldn't resist playing dirty (esp. Wilfork and Harrison). On the other hand, maybe Shula and those putzes on the '72 Dolphins will shut their traps now.

I've developed something of a begrudging respect for the New England Patriots over the course of this season.

They're simply the best football team I've ever watched play, and they're led by the best quarterback I've ever seen play. The feat they've accomplished -- undefeated through today's NFL -- is simply amazing.

marcshoe
12-30-2007, 12:41 AM
Well, you knew the Pats were going to win when they took the late lead. They haven't lost a game this year in which they've held a 4th Quarter lead. ;)

WMR
12-30-2007, 12:47 AM
It was funny listening to Shula during a pre-game interview on NFL Network... hehehe, talk about pulling a DIRECT 180.

Yachtzee
12-30-2007, 12:48 AM
It was funny listening to Shula during a pre-game interview on NFL Network... hehehe, talk about pulling a DIRECT 180.

Of course. If he continues to talk like he did earlier in the season, he looks like a big ******bag.

MWM
12-30-2007, 12:58 AM
Definitely one of the best teams of all time, and a case could be made they are THE best. I can think of only two teams in my lifetime that might measure up. One is the 1985 Bears. I have a hard time calling any team distinctly better than that team. The other one is the 1989 49ers. That team was just sick. Are these two teams better than this year's Pats? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you can say with any level of certainty.

And this season by Brady is the best I've ever seen by a QB. I never thought I'd see another one as good as Manning's 2004 season, but I'd give the nod to Brady in 2007 (although, for those using TDs as the argument, Peyton sat out week 17 the year he threw 49 TDs.) I know some will call me nuts, but all things being equal, I still think Manning is the better QB overall, but when we're talking about greatness at this level, it really doesn't matter. A case could be made for either guy.

I still say Elway is the best QB I've ever seen play. Again, just an opinion. I thought he played the position in a way no one ever has. Elway could do anything any other QB could do, and he did things few others could do as well. If all things are equal, if I could have one QB in the history of the game, I'll take Elway.

RedsBaron
12-30-2007, 08:53 AM
Definitely one of the best teams of all time, and a case could be made they are THE best. I can think of only two teams in my lifetime that might measure up. One is the 1985 Bears. I have a hard time calling any team distinctly better than that team. The other one is the 1989 49ers. That team was just sick. Are these two teams better than this year's Pats? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you can say with any level of certainty.



I hated them, but I'd add the 1978 Steelers to the discussion. That team had all-pros everywhere.
While I do not believe they would match up well physically with the 2007 Patriots, or many other "modern" teams, Lombardi's Packers still deserve mention. Green Bay won 5 NFL titles in 7 seasons, including three straight, which is unmatched. It sometimes irritates me when I hear TV commentators act as if pro football has only exited since the first Super Bowl. Yes, those Packers won 2 Super Bowls, but had the two leagues merged a few years earlier the Packers would've grabbed 5 Super Bowl rings; there was nothing in the AFL in 1961, 1962 or 1965 that would have prevailed over Green Bay.

RedsBaron
12-30-2007, 09:04 AM
On the other hand, maybe Shula and those putzes on the '72 Dolphins will shut their traps now.

Part of me hopes the Patriots go on and win the Super Bowl just to shut up the '72 Dolphins.
The 1972 Miami Dolphins obviously were a great team but I do not regard them as even being the best team of the 1970s. If the '72 Dolphins could be matched up against the 1975 or 1978 Steelers, my money would be on Pittsburgh. For that matter, the 1971 Cowboys and the 1976 Raiders might very well have been greater teams than the 1972 Miami team. The '72 Dolphins going undefeated was a remarkable achievement, but it doesn't mean they were the greatest team ever.

GAC
12-30-2007, 09:30 AM
I hated them, but I'd add the 1978 Steelers to the discussion. That team had all-pros everywhere.

Amen to that.

Dom Heffner
12-30-2007, 11:45 AM
Definitely one of the best teams of all time, and a case could be made they are THE best. I can think of only two teams in my lifetime that might measure up. One is the 1985 Bears. I have a hard time calling any team distinctly better than that team. The other one is the 1989 49ers. That team was just sick. Are these two teams better than this year's Pats? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you can say with any level of certainty.

Hats off to the Patriots for an amazing feat.

It's tough to run the table in the NFL.

Having said that, I think it's too tough to say who's the best of all-time.

Could this year's Patriots have gone into Soldier Field in 1985 and beat the Bears? I doubt it.

And it doesn't hurt playing the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins twice.

If we only gauge how good a team is by a win-loss record, that is not fair to those who had better teams with tougher schedules.

If we only use points scored as a measuring stick, that is also not fair to other teams who played better defenses along the way.

When the Patriots were 8-0 you could look at their schedule and see this was totally possible. They weren't playing anybody at all. When the Ravens are your toughest opponent (they are terrible and were one play away from winning that game), it doesn't make your case stronger that you are the best team ever.

Having said all that, winning all 16 games in the NFL is darn impressive.


I still say Elway is the best QB I've ever seen play. Again, just an opinion. I thought he played the position in a way no one ever has. Elway could do anything any other QB could do, and he did things few others could do as well. If all things are equal, if I could have one QB in the history of the game, I'll take Elway.


Could Tom Brady have taken those awful Bronco teams to the Super Bowl back in the late 80s early 90s? No way.

Elway meant more to those teams than any QB I can ever think of. Does that make him the best? For me it does, but it's certainly up for debate.

RichRed
12-30-2007, 12:09 PM
I'm a big Redskins fan so big homer alert here:

No one mentions them but I think the 1991 Redskins should be in the discussion for best teams of all-time.

14-2 (17-2 including playoffs and Super Bowl win over Buffalo)

They played 11 games against teams who would finish the season with 10+ wins, winning 9 of them.

Their two losses came against 11-5 Dallas, 24-21, and 10-6 Philly, 24-22.

Avg. margin of victory, including playoffs, was 17 points. In the regular season, they scored 30.3 per game and allowed 14. That victory margin was 2nd only to the '85 Bears until this year's Patriots came along (the Pats' avg. score this year was 36.8-17.1).

They were first in the NFL in points scored and 2nd in points allowed.

I think that team doesn't get the recognition they deserve because of the lack of a lot of superstars, including a QB who's not exactly in Canton, Mark Rypien.

I'm not saying they're the best, or even better than the '07 Pats, but I'd put them in the top 10.

Razor Shines
12-30-2007, 12:44 PM
I didn't care that much about them going undefeated, but I did care about Peyton's (formerly) touchdown record. I wouldn't have been upset with Brady tying him, but I didn't want him to break it. Mostly because in the 16th game of the season in '04 Peyton played one series and attempted 2 passes. If Dungy would have let him play just the first half he could have had 50 or 51 for the season. Oh well, Brady had a great season, but I don't think it was any better than Peyton's '04 season.

sonny
12-30-2007, 12:52 PM
I didn't care that much about them going undefeated, but I did care about Peyton's (formerly) touchdown record. I wouldn't have been upset with Brady tying him, but I didn't want him to break it. Mostly because in the 16th game of the season in '04 Peyton played one series and attempted 2 passes. If Dungy would have let him play just the first half he could have had 50 or 51 for the season. Oh well, Brady had a great season, but I don't think it was any better than Peyton's '04 season.

Peyton's does seem strangely "earned".

Brady's just seems unsportsmanlike and obnoxious.

Razor Shines
12-30-2007, 01:18 PM
Peyton's does seem strangely "earned".

Brady's just seems unsportsmanlike and obnoxious.

I honestly don't have a problem with anything the Pats did this year. Like they've said, it is their job to score every time they get the ball. Things could have been done this to keep the Pats from "running up the score". In those meaningless possessions other teams could have blitzed 8, 9, 10 guys. Who cares if the Pats scored again, just make sure Brady get hit every time. If that started happening Belichick may have started playing the end of games differently.

I just wish Dungy would have allowed Peyton to play a little more in that last game in '04.

Yachtzee
12-30-2007, 02:19 PM
I honestly don't have a problem with anything the Pats did this year. Like they've said, it is their job to score every time they get the ball. Things could have been done this to keep the Pats from "running up the score". In those meaningless possessions other teams could have blitzed 8, 9, 10 guys. Who cares if the Pats scored again, just make sure Brady get hit every time. If that started happening Belichick may have started playing the end of games differently.

I just wish Dungy would have allowed Peyton to play a little more in that last game in '04.

True, teams could have done something ridiculous like throwing everything but the kitchen sink into blitzing Brady, but then you run the risk of looking like you're trying to injure somebody. When you think about it, on the scale of unsportsmanlike behavior, trying to injure someone is a bit higher on the list than running up the score.

I think the Giants did a good job of paying aggressive and working hard to get to Brady. Maybe if more teams had played an aggressive, attacking defense against the Pats, the Pats wouldn't be undefeated. However, I still think running up the score is generally unsportsmanlike.

I don't have a problem with running up the score in certain situations. I would say that if you're playing a rival that has been talking big and showing disrespect for your team, running up the score is a good way to shut them up. However, running up the score as a general principal just isn't a good way to go. Embarrass enough teams and eventually they start trying to injure your guys. If there's one thing NFL teams should strive for besides the Super Bowl, its coming off the field with as few injuries as possible.

WMR
12-30-2007, 02:32 PM
Rodney Harrison apparently called the Giants "dirty" in a post-game interview. Ironic much?

Razor Shines
12-30-2007, 02:33 PM
True, teams could have done something ridiculous like throwing everything but the kitchen sink into blitzing Brady, but then you run the risk of looking like you're trying to injure somebody. When you think about it, on the scale of unsportsmanlike behavior, trying to injure someone is a bit higher on the list than running up the score.



I don't think it would look like they were trying to injure him. Late or illegal hits would not be something that I would support, but just good old fashion, hard, but legal, hits on the QB every time he drops back. I just think it would have taken one team to do it and the "running up the score" problem would have gone away.

Yachtzee
12-30-2007, 02:46 PM
I don't think it would look like they were trying to injure him. Late or illegal hits would not be something that I would support, but just good old fashion, hard, but legal, hits on the QB every time he drops back. I just think it would have taken one team to do it and the "running up the score" problem would have gone away.

I think the problem is that, if you blitz 9 or 10 players repeatedly, it no longer looks like you're trying to prevent the other team from scoring. It now looks like your sole intent is to hurt the QB. And of course that gives the guys on offense the incentive to retaliate. You really risk creating a cycle of retaliation that really doesn't need to happen.

WVRed
12-30-2007, 05:39 PM
I'd just like to see them tank in the playoffs, preferrably second round or against the Colts.

Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, and Indianapolis all have an equal shot of pulling it off. I have a feeling though it will be a Green Bay-New England Super Bowl.

Puffy
12-31-2007, 04:49 PM
I'm a big Redskins fan so big homer alert here:

No one mentions them but I think the 1991 Redskins should be in the discussion for best teams of all-time.

14-2 (17-2 including playoffs and Super Bowl win over Buffalo)

They played 11 games against teams who would finish the season with 10+ wins, winning 9 of them.

Their two losses came against 11-5 Dallas, 24-21, and 10-6 Philly, 24-22.

Avg. margin of victory, including playoffs, was 17 points. In the regular season, they scored 30.3 per game and allowed 14. That victory margin was 2nd only to the '85 Bears until this year's Patriots came along (the Pats' avg. score this year was 36.8-17.1).

They were first in the NFL in points scored and 2nd in points allowed.

I think that team doesn't get the recognition they deserve because of the lack of a lot of superstars, including a QB who's not exactly in Canton, Mark Rypien.

I'm not saying they're the best, or even better than the '07 Pats, but I'd put them in the top 10.

No one mentions the 86 Giants either. Lost their first game of the year, went on to win 14 of their last 15, beat the 49ers in the Divisonal game 49-3, then beat Washington 17-0 in NFC Championship game (combined scores 66-3!) then beat up on the Broncos to win the SB.

But the Bears the previous year were probably better, so that Giants team never gets any love. But they had the greatest defensive player I have ever seen having his greatest year (LT) plus future HOF Harry Carson. It was a defense every bit as good as the 85 Bears, just not as gimmickky, and there for no one remembers just how good they were.