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View Full Version : Carson suggests coaching changes



Chip R
01-01-2008, 04:58 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3176249

MWM
01-01-2008, 05:13 PM
Palmer and others complained about the poor quality of the team's grass practice field and the lack of a covered facility for when the weather turns nasty.

When the Bengals moved into Paul Brown Stadium before the 2000 season, ownership had the option of covering a practice field at its expense. There is still no covered field, which is a drawback in recruiting free agents.

And that my firends is Mike Brown in a nutshell. As long as he's in charge, the Bengals will never be serious contenders.

WMR
01-01-2008, 05:13 PM
"I'm very pleased with what our coaches have done this year," Lewis said.

There aren't enough rolleyes in the entire internet to convey how I feel about this statement.

WMR
01-01-2008, 05:14 PM
And that my firends is Mike Brown in a nutshell. As long as he's in charge, the Bengals will never be serious contenders.

Mike Brown is such an idiot. Talk about missing the forest for all of the trees. Managing a billion-dollar enterprise like a mom and pop outfit. Pathetic.

WMR
01-01-2008, 05:26 PM
"A lot of guys weren't attuned to winning," safety Dexter Jackson said. "They were attuned to getting a certain amount of yards or a certain amount of this instead of winning the game."

Reds4Life
01-01-2008, 05:27 PM
You'd think he pony up for the covered practice field, he got a half billion dollar stadium for pretty much nothing thanks to wonderful Bob Beddinghaus screwing over the tax payers of Hamilton county.

If they aren't on the phone to Rex Ryan right now there is no hope for them. Ole Chuck better be packing his bags too.

GoReds33
01-01-2008, 06:13 PM
If Chuck hasn't packed his bags by now, there is something wrong. He is a terrible defensive coordinator. He had something good going on with the Baltimore win. They had a good strategy of rushing the passer. Then, he can't continue that momentum. I think this Defense could be league average with a good coordinator.

paintmered
01-01-2008, 06:24 PM
You'd think he pony up for the covered practice field, he got a half billion dollar stadium for pretty much nothing thanks to wonderful Bob Beddinghaus screwing over the tax payers of Hamilton county.

If they aren't on the phone to Rex Ryan right now there is no hope for them. Ole Chuck better be packing his bags too.

Not to mention the Bearcats need one as well. It seems to me they'd be a natural fit to go halfsies on an indoor facility.

Caveat Emperor
01-01-2008, 06:40 PM
And that my firends is Mike Brown in a nutshell. As long as he's in charge, the Bengals will never be serious contenders.

OTOH, I think that's kind of a weenie excuse by Carson Palmer.

"Our practice field sucks because it's outside."

Please.

MWM
01-01-2008, 09:08 PM
OTOH, I think that's kind of a weenie excuse by Carson Palmer.

"Our practice field sucks because it's outside."

Please.


How did you get that it was an excuse? We don't know the context to which he actually brought it up. I'm sure it was a sore point for a lot of the players on the team, and reporters know this. I'd be surprised if any comments he made about it weren't in direct response to a question about the practice facilities. I highly doubt he just volunteered that.

GAC
01-01-2008, 09:13 PM
Not to mention the Bearcats need one as well. It seems to me they'd be a natural fit to go halfsies on an indoor facility.

Brown would probably go along if the Bearcats paid for it. ;)

Cedric
01-01-2008, 09:50 PM
OTOH, I think that's kind of a weenie excuse by Carson Palmer.

"Our practice field sucks because it's outside."

Please.

Why is it an excuse? Most colleges have great indoor practice facilities. Mike Brown again isn't living up to his job and doing what is best for the franchise. Carson knows what free agents and players want.

I hate hearing people like Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown talk about changing the culture of the team. Those guys have done nothing to change their outdated style.

GoReds33
01-01-2008, 10:32 PM
Why is it an excuse? Most colleges have great indoor practice facilities. Mike Brown again isn't living up to his job and doing what is best for the franchise. Carson knows what free agents and players want.

I hate hearing people like Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown talk about changing the culture of the team. Those guys have done nothing to change their outdated style.Good points. The only good thing Marvin did was to draft Palmer, and any idiot could do that. I have to give him kudos for getting rid of Dillon though. Still, he stumbled upon a great young team, and has yet to prove himself.

Matt700wlw
01-01-2008, 11:03 PM
Now that UC is going to be getting an indoor facility (due to Brian Kelly's new contract), I'm sure Mike Brown will push for being allowed to use it. That means he won't have to fork out the money to finance it on his own.

It's pretty sad that it takes the University football team to get something done that should be a no-brainer for the NFL team.

Mike Brown's a twerp.

Bip Roberts
01-01-2008, 11:08 PM
I wish we let them move when we had the chance :o

KronoRed
01-01-2008, 11:16 PM
I wish we let them move when we had the chance :o

Agreed, all that cash wasted on their place could have been used by the Reds

Caveat Emperor
01-01-2008, 11:54 PM
Why is it an excuse? Most colleges have great indoor practice facilities. Mike Brown again isn't living up to his job and doing what is best for the franchise. Carson knows what free agents and players want.

Maybe. But, then again, they play all 8 home games outdoors and all 3 divisional road games outdoors as well, so I don't see the problem practicing outdoors.

I'd think that an indoor practice facility would mean MUCH more to a college team than it would an NFL team for recruiting purposes. In the NFL, they simplify recruiting by just offering more money.

Maybe I'm ignorant about the NFL Free Agent process -- seeing as how I've never been an NFL Free Agent -- but I think "indoor practice facility" would rank lower on the list than things like guaranteed money, promise of playing time, coaching staff, and current ability of the signing team to win. I don't foresee a lot of situations where a player says: "Well, Tennessee is offering more money and Jeff Fisher really wants me to be his go-to back, but dammit if Cincinnati's indoor practice facility isn't spiffy."

MWM
01-02-2008, 12:44 AM
Maybe I'm ignorant about the NFL Free Agent process -- seeing as how I've never been an NFL Free Agent -- but I think "indoor practice facility" would rank lower on the list than things like guaranteed money, promise of playing time, coaching staff, and current ability of the signing team to win. I don't foresee a lot of situations where a player says: "Well, Tennessee is offering more money and Jeff Fisher really wants me to be his go-to back, but dammit if Cincinnati's indoor practice facility isn't spiffy."

It's a signal to potential employees of the overall quality of an organization. By itself it doesn't mean a whole lot. As one piece of the overall Mike Brown portfolio, it means a little more. How many cold weather organizations don't have an indoor practice facility. That's the question that should be answered.

traderumor
01-02-2008, 07:13 AM
Still, he stumbled upon a great young team, and has yet to prove himself.They were able to draft Palmer because they were 2-14 and the league's laughingstock when he arrived. Yea, some great young team...they were just getting ready to bust out. :rolleyes:

You would have to be assuming that no one around here has been paying attention to the Bengals for the last 15 years to get that one by unchallenged.

Marvin has proven that he can build a respectable football team. What he hasn't proven is that he can build a powerhouse, which is the goal I'm assuming he and any Bengals fan wants accomplished. As I've been saying throughout the season, this is the pivotal offseason for Marvin's career with the Bengals. He must do some soul searching on what he wants the next five years to look like and go about the business of putting the personnel in place to accomplish building that.

WebScorpion
01-02-2008, 11:27 AM
I wish we let them move when we had the chance :o
For me, that may be the only solution. At least I'd be free to choose a franchise that sees the playoffs from time to time. As it stands, I'm a Bengal fan by birth. :runawaycr

Bip Roberts
01-02-2008, 11:54 AM
For me, that may be the only solution. At least I'd be free to choose a franchise that sees the playoffs from time to time. As it stands, I'm a Bengal fan by birth. :runawaycr

id probably just end up becoming a hockey fan

Blimpie
01-02-2008, 12:21 PM
Why is it an excuse? Most colleges have great indoor practice facilities. Mike Brown again isn't living up to his job and doing what is best for the franchise. Carson knows what free agents and players want.Really? I am curious what makes you think that this is so.

CrackerJack
01-02-2008, 12:25 PM
It's a signal to potential employees of the overall quality of an organization. By itself it doesn't mean a whole lot. As one piece of the overall Mike Brown portfolio, it means a little more. How many cold weather organizations don't have an indoor practice facility. That's the question that should be answered.

Yep, it exemplifies the cheap nature of the organization and lack of commitment to winning. I don't know why people here don't realize that - every other team in this climate has one.

Furthemore, if you've ever played football, practicing outside 3-4 days a week in this weather come Nov-Dec can be brutal, even in the summer it can get ridiculously hot and humid - guys get hurt, field conditions deteriorate, practices aren't nearly as productive, and you're limited by the weather conditions...nor can you similate hostile indoor environments properly without one.

Having to reserve a facility at the last minute constantly just to throw the ball around and drive 30-40 min's north of Cincinnati is stupid for an NFL team to have to do.

Players don't come here as much in the off-season to work out - because they have nowhere to run or work on their catching/passing etc..., unless the weather is good. They work out in California or Florida instead, on their own, nothing else.

If you're a Free Agent, and you've got two places on your finals list - and at one of them you know you'll be practicing in the elements all year round unless it's extreme, you'll think twice about that commitment if the money is close.

I'm glad Palmer is speaking up, because Marvin sure isn't anymore now that he's been Bungalized.

Chip R
01-02-2008, 01:00 PM
It's a signal to potential employees of the overall quality of an organization. By itself it doesn't mean a whole lot. As one piece of the overall Mike Brown portfolio, it means a little more. How many cold weather organizations don't have an indoor practice facility. That's the question that should be answered.


It is a good question. Don't the Bengals have some clause in their deal where if so many teams have a certain item like Field Turf or something like that, then the county has to pay for it?

If I were UC and the Bengals wanted to use their indoor facility, I'd tell them to bugger off or charge them up the nose to use it. You actually think that if the tables were turned and UC needed to use the Bengals indoor facility that they would let them use it? Not very likely.

Yachtzee
01-02-2008, 01:27 PM
Agreed, all that cash wasted on their place could have been used by the Reds

If it weren't for the Bengals, the new stadium project would probably not have gone through. Marge Schott was not exactly the most likable person and I seem to recall she did nothing to promote the stadium projects. There's a good chance the Reds could have left town before the Bengals. Even if they stayed, they might likely be playing in a renovated Cinergy Field rather than a new park. Maybe that's what some people would like, but it wouldn't have been a good solution if your goal is to keep the Reds in town for the long run.

Should Cincinnati lose its pro sports teams, it isn't likely to get them back any time soon. Not with larger markets still waiting for teams. I suppose it would be good for UC, Xavier, and minor league hockey though.

Chip R
01-02-2008, 01:41 PM
If it weren't for the Bengals, the new stadium project would probably not have gone through. Marge Schott was not exactly the most likable person and I seem to recall she did nothing to promote the stadium projects. There's a good chance the Reds could have left town before the Bengals. Even if they stayed, they might likely be playing in a renovated Cinergy Field rather than a new park. Maybe that's what some people would like, but it wouldn't have been a good solution if your goal is to keep the Reds in town for the long run.


The Reds were never going to leave town. It's not like the NFL where they can go pretty much as they please.

Bip Roberts
01-02-2008, 02:03 PM
Rex Ryan and Ken Zampese please

WMR
01-02-2008, 03:00 PM
Yep, it exemplifies the cheap nature of the organization and lack of commitment to winning. I don't know why people here don't realize that - every other team in this climate has one.

Furthemore, if you've ever played football, practicing outside 3-4 days a week in this weather come Nov-Dec can be brutal, even in the summer it can get ridiculously hot and humid - guys get hurt, field conditions deteriorate, practices aren't nearly as productive, and you're limited by the weather conditions...nor can you similate hostile indoor environments properly without one.

Having to reserve a facility at the last minute constantly just to throw the ball around and drive 30-40 min's north of Cincinnati is stupid for an NFL team to have to do.

Players don't come here as much in the off-season to work out - because they have nowhere to run or work on their catching/passing etc..., unless the weather is good. They work out in California or Florida instead, on their own, nothing else.

If you're a Free Agent, and you've got two places on your finals list - and at one of them you know you'll be practicing in the elements all year round unless it's extreme, you'll think twice about that commitment if the money is close.

I'm glad Palmer is speaking up, because Marvin sure isn't anymore now that he's been Bungalized.

BUNGALIZED!! That's good!

Chip R
01-02-2008, 03:32 PM
Rex Ryan and Ken Zampese please


Mike Martz is now available.

Bip Roberts
01-02-2008, 03:57 PM
Mike Martz is now available.

no thank you

remdog
01-02-2008, 06:24 PM
The Reds were never going to leave town. It's not like the NFL where they can go pretty much as they please.

I agree that the Reds were not likely to leave Cincinnati. However, I recall talk (and I believe renderings) of converting Riverfront to baseball only. It seems to me that the stadium in Anaheim was the model.

Rem

GoReds33
01-02-2008, 06:28 PM
They were able to draft Palmer because they were 2-14 and the league's laughingstock when he arrived. Yea, some great young team...they were just getting ready to bust out. :rolleyes:

You would have to be assuming that no one around here has been paying attention to the Bengals for the last 15 years to get that one by unchallenged.

Marvin has proven that he can build a respectable football team. What he hasn't proven is that he can build a powerhouse, which is the goal I'm assuming he and any Bengals fan wants accomplished. As I've been saying throughout the season, this is the pivotal offseason for Marvin's career with the Bengals. He must do some soul searching on what he wants the next five years to look like and go about the business of putting the personnel in place to accomplish building that.He stumbled upon the talent. Who on this team has he brought in? He didn't bring in Rudi, Chad, TJ, or Willie, and would have been an idiot to pass on Palmer. That's almost the whole offense right there.

Chip R
01-02-2008, 06:33 PM
I agree that the Reds were not likely to leave Cincinnati. However, I recall talk (and I believe renderings) of converting Riverfront to baseball only. It seems to me that the stadium in Anaheim was the model.

Rem


You're right. I think Busch Stadium II would have also been a model if they went down that road.

Yachtzee
01-02-2008, 10:04 PM
You're right. I think Busch Stadium II would have also been a model if they went down that road.

And how long did Busch II last before they replaced it? I seem to recall that DC was still in play at that point and that was the time when Bud Selig encouraging teams to push for new ballparks using DC as the potential city to move a team to. I also seem to recall that Marge had an antagonistic attitude toward the city and county at that time, so there was talk that she would either seek a stadium in No. KY or sell to out-of-towners. I don't know how serious that info was, especially considering she'd have to get it by the limited partners, but I remember hearing it. In any case, she did nothing to promote building a new ballpark for the Reds and, based on Bud Selig's relationship with Marge, I wouldn't doubt he would have let the Reds move if it meant getting rid of Marge without having to force her out.

As it is, the Reds might owe the Bengals for two stadiums. It was before my time, but I seem to recall hearing that Riverfront was built only because Paul Brown got an expansion franchise from the AFL/NFL, thus guaranteeing use of the stadium beyond baseball season. Supposedly, 1960s Cincinnatians weren't too keen on building a downtown stadium if the Reds were the only tenants.

Chip R
01-03-2008, 01:36 AM
And how long did Busch II last before they replaced it? I seem to recall that DC was still in play at that point and that was the time when Bud Selig encouraging teams to push for new ballparks using DC as the potential city to move a team to. I also seem to recall that Marge had an antagonistic attitude toward the city and county at that time, so there was talk that she would either seek a stadium in No. KY or sell to out-of-towners. I don't know how serious that info was, especially considering she'd have to get it by the limited partners, but I remember hearing it. In any case, she did nothing to promote building a new ballpark for the Reds and, based on Bud Selig's relationship with Marge, I wouldn't doubt he would have let the Reds move if it meant getting rid of Marge without having to force her out.

As it is, the Reds might owe the Bengals for two stadiums. It was before my time, but I seem to recall hearing that Riverfront was built only because Paul Brown got an expansion franchise from the AFL/NFL, thus guaranteeing use of the stadium beyond baseball season. Supposedly, 1960s Cincinnatians weren't too keen on building a downtown stadium if the Reds were the only tenants.


I think Busch II lasted at least 10 years after they redid it. Almost 40 years if you want to count it from its inception. The Reds could have gone that route but they would have had to build a new stadium eventually so you figure the cost of refurbishing Cinergy on top of the cost of building a new stadium and it would have cost quite a bit more than if they just went the new stadium route. Plus I heard that Cinergy was starting to fall apart in the parking garage area and places like that.

I don't think DC was ever on anybody's list on where to move teams until Montreal was in trouble. Plus you can't move teams in baseball unless you get their say so and there isn't any way they would have let the 1st professional franchise leave Cincinnati. Marge was so full of crap on the stadium issue. She had no leverage cause she stalled the whole process trying to get a bigger, better deal. Even if she would have tried to sell to out of towners, MLB could have denied the sale. It isn't like the NFL where you can move your franchise at a whim.

You are correct about the Reds owing Riverfront to the Bengals. Before the Bengals came along the Reds were looking at different places for a new stadium including Blue Ash. I think they were eventually going to build a baseball only stadium where Riverfront/Cinergy was but the Bengals came along and Riverfront was born. Bill De Witt, Sr. was so against building a multipurpose facility that he sold out.