PDA

View Full Version : How about Tubby Smith now?



Matt700wlw
01-09-2008, 04:10 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-080108tubbysmithminnesota,1,146457.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:12 PM
Tubby belongs at a school like Minnesota. It should serve his recruiting prowess perfectly. I wish him nothing but success, despite the fact that he left a bare cupboard for his successor at UK. He did an admirable job taking Pitino's players to the Final Four and winning UK their seventh national championship.

Turn the page.

BRM
01-09-2008, 04:15 PM
Did he win all 5 SEC titles with Pitino's players?

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:17 PM
Did he win all 5 SEC titles with Pitino's players?

Oh god, please don't make me re-hash the whole explanation of the hows and whys the program steadily deteriorated under Tubby's watch the past 5-6 seasons.

Damn Hoosiers.

BRM
01-09-2008, 04:19 PM
Tubby went 21-11 with his players last year. How come Billy G. can't win with them?

KronoRed
01-09-2008, 04:20 PM
Ron Zook used the cupboard is bare excuse at Florida, just sayin ;)

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:22 PM
Tubby went 21-11 with his players last year. How come Billy G. can't win with them?

New system. New philosophy. No--and I mean NO--senior leadership.

Look at Texas A&M's current ranking. Billy G did an awesome job recruiting from A&M... he will do even better recruiting to Kentucky.

jimbo
01-09-2008, 04:23 PM
Tubby belongs at a school like Minnesota. It should serve his recruiting prowess perfectly. I wish him nothing but success, despite the fact that he left a bare cupboard for his successor at UK. He did an admirable job taking Pitino's players to the Final Four and winning UK their seventh national championship.

Turn the page.

You're not turning the page if you still feel the need to throw digs at him.

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:24 PM
Ron Zook used the cupboard is bare excuse at Florida, just sayin ;)

:lol:

Except the cupboard hasn't been bare at Florida in my entire lifetime.

Any reasonable person can see that the talent is seriously lacking at Kentucky right now. And Billy is doing his best to coach up players not best-suited--or even capable--of doing what he demands out of his teams.

BRM
01-09-2008, 04:24 PM
So Billy's system and philosophy isn't as good as Tubby's? Interesting.

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:25 PM
You're not turning the page if you still feel the need to throw digs at him.

Sorry, I honestly harbor zero ill will towards Tubby. The man was a class act.

I just get a little perturbed by anyone implying that the program would somehow be better-served in the long-term if Tubby was still the head coach.

Change was needed. The writing on the wall was clear.

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:26 PM
So Billy's system and philosophy isn't as good as Tubby's? Interesting.

Right. That's what I was saying.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/EmperorSwoon/pukeroll.gif

BRM
01-09-2008, 04:28 PM
I love messing with you WilyMo!

And I can't believe you are denograting the leadership skills of Joe Crawford...

jimbo
01-09-2008, 04:28 PM
I just get a little perturbed by anyone implying that the program would somehow be better-served in the long-term if Tubby was still the head coach.


Only time will tell, IMO.

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:28 PM
I love messing with you WilyMo!

And I can't believe you are denograting the leadership skills of Joe Crawford...

I've been dying to bust out that rolleyes gif. LMAO :D

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:29 PM
When you let your little brother punk you on national television, you're done.

BRM
01-09-2008, 04:30 PM
His little brother is slowly becoming a legend at Indiana for his extremely poor shot selection...

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:30 PM
Only time will tell, IMO.

Look at the current state of A&M. That's the best indicator of where UK is headed, IMO. Billy G left a monster squad behind.

BRM
01-09-2008, 04:32 PM
Look at the current state of A&M. That's the best indicator of where UK is headed, IMO. Billy G left a monster squad behind.

Nah, he just won with Melvin Watkins' players.

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:32 PM
His little brother is slowly becoming a legend at Indiana for his extremely poor shot selection...

I watched their game last night versus Michigan. What about that last second heave by the Michigan player going into halftime??? :lol:

Eric Gordon is a BEAST. Is he a definite one and done player?

p.s. I really hate that fat body juco you guys got. :laugh:

BRM
01-09-2008, 04:36 PM
I watched their game last night versus Michigan. What about that last second heave by the Michigan player going into halftime??? :lol:

Eric Gordon is a BEAST. Is he a definite one and done player?

p.s. I really hate that fat body juco you guys got. :laugh:

Jordan Crawford put up more horrendous shots in that game alone than most guys do in a season.

Eric is definitely one and done in my opinion. Lavin said last night NBA scouts see him as a top 3 pick.

DeAndre Thomas? He hasn't been all that impressive yet but Kelvin likes his potential.

bucksfan2
01-09-2008, 04:40 PM
This will be very interseting to see how everything develops with UK. As a non UK fan was was kinda pissed that Billy G went there because I think he is a heck of a coach. However Tubby Smith is one of the best, if not then best, bench coach in all of college basketball. This senior class if I remember correctly was a highly thought of recruiting class. In today's college basketball recruiting becomes an interesting dynamic. You can't over recruit because the players will be here today gone tomorrow. I really believe that if last season's OSU team wasn't able to win a national championship I don't think a freshman led team will be able to. The two most talented fresh classes to come along in the past 20 years (OSU, Fab 5) were able to get close but were eventually stopped by a veteran team.

In today's college basketball a coach like Tubby just may be better than a recruiter like Billy G.

SunDeck
01-09-2008, 04:53 PM
The fact that Deandre Thomas can run up and down the court without puking his lungs up is a minor miracle. My guess is that Eric Gordon will not spend a day in Bloomington once the season is over; he really won't learn much at this level.

BRM
01-09-2008, 04:57 PM
Thomas actually lost a bunch of weight before the season. I think I read he lost something like 65 pounds.

WMR
01-09-2008, 04:59 PM
Yeah, they said last night he lost close to 60 pounds to get down to 295!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Personally, I think he's still over three bills.

durl
01-09-2008, 05:21 PM
Sorry, I honestly harbor zero ill will towards Tubby. The man was a class act.

I just get a little perturbed by anyone implying that the program would somehow be better-served in the long-term if Tubby was still the head coach.

Change was needed. The writing on the wall was clear.

+1. I agree completely. Tubby's a GREAT man and I wish him the best. His recruiting skills simply weren't what's needed at UK. It was best for him to move on.

Javy Pornstache
01-09-2008, 05:22 PM
How about him? He'll be fine in Minnesota going 18-13 most years, they'll love him for that. Not in Kentucky. Pitino had a horrific first season in Kentucky installing a new system as Gillispie is doing, while Eddie Sutton and Tubby each went about 32-4 their first years and clearly they're the best coaches in UK history, right? UK made the right move, no matter how much the haters are enjoying them being down.

dabvu2498
01-09-2008, 05:24 PM
Tubby went 18-13? I missed that.

But I agree, UK needed change. Just not sure they got the right guy.

Cyclone792
01-09-2008, 05:31 PM
As a UC fan - and knowing that WMR is a UK fan - I feel it is my duty to point out that UC's RPI of 165 is currently far ahead of UK's RPI of 211.

Also, WMR, let's not forget - let's not forget! - that while Tubby destroyed a program over five years, good ole Nancy Z accomplished that same feat in under two years!

;)

Blimpie
01-09-2008, 05:32 PM
Tubby went 21-11 with his players last year. How come Billy G. can't win with them?Don't discount the undeniable "Woo Orbzut Factor"

:cool:

WVRed
01-09-2008, 05:35 PM
Tubby went 18-13? I missed that.

But I agree, UK needed change. Just not sure they got the right guy.

Give it time, it's just going to take a year before he gets his system and players into place. The fact that the senior leadership this year was coddled by Tubby tells you why the current team is ready to revolt.

This is the best analogy I can give. You work a job that has a union and you get a new boss. Right away, your union reps and the boss do not see eye to eye and there are problems. Who does the rest of people who work there take up for? The union.

Difference is, these "union reps" or senior leaders get to graduate and move on with their lives. When that happens, Gillispie will have better control over the team.

BRM
01-09-2008, 05:38 PM
The fact he won SEC titles while simultaneously destroying the program is an extraordinary accomplishment. ;)

WVRed
01-09-2008, 05:42 PM
The fact he won SEC titles while simultaneously destroying the program is an extraordinary accomplishment. ;)

I guess the saying in Indiana goes "Always set your standards low, that way you will never be disappointed".;)

Five SEC titles mean nothing. It's all about the National Championships.

BRM
01-09-2008, 05:43 PM
He won one of those too. Oh, that's right...that one doesn't count. :p:

dabvu2498
01-09-2008, 05:49 PM
Give it time, it's just going to take a year before he gets his system and players into place. The fact that the senior leadership this year was coddled by Tubby tells you why the current team is ready to revolt.

This is the best analogy I can give. You work a job that has a union and you get a new boss. Right away, your union reps and the boss do not see eye to eye and there are problems. Who does the rest of people who work there take up for? The union.

Difference is, these "union reps" or senior leaders get to graduate and move on with their lives. When that happens, Gillispie will have better control over the team.

Or... the boss may really suck.

Only time will tell.

And in that time, I'm going to enjoy my Commodores getting some wins.

WMR
01-09-2008, 06:11 PM
Better get 'em while the gettin is good, big boy!! :D

WMR
01-09-2008, 06:13 PM
Exhibits A-D of UK going downhill on Tubby's watch? UK's record versus Vanderbilt over the past 2 seasons.

Matt700wlw
01-09-2008, 07:35 PM
He won one of those too. Oh, that's right...that one doesn't count. :p:

At least they won't have to worry about a non-counting championship this season.....

What a relief for them! :D

WVRed
01-09-2008, 09:45 PM
He won one of those too. Oh, that's right...that one doesn't count. :p:

Tubby's national championships with the players he recruited:0

Unless you want to count Saul Smith I guess.

jmac
01-09-2008, 10:28 PM
Oh god, please don't make me re-hash the whole explanation of the hows and whys the program steadily deteriorated under Tubby's watch the past 5-6 seasons.

Dont bother rehashing WMR.
Most people dont understand and never will because they arent closely following the program. It's just a waste of energy trying to explain.
As for as Tubby, he's a great person and good coach and he can make a team a top 15-top 25.
As far as making a team a consistent power , no.
Ky wasnt the right fit and Tubby seen that. I wish him the best though.
One more thing though. See what tubby does after Big Ten play begins.

jmac
01-09-2008, 10:31 PM
He won one of those too. Oh, that's right...that one doesn't count. :p:
Jay Bilas, is that you ?
I didnt know you was a redszoner.

WMR
01-09-2008, 11:32 PM
As a UC fan - and knowing that WMR is a UK fan - I feel it is my duty to point out that UC's RPI of 165 is currently far ahead of UK's RPI of 211.

Also, WMR, let's not forget - let's not forget! - that while Tubby destroyed a program over five years, good ole Nancy Z accomplished that same feat in under two years!

;)

Hehehehehehe, Cyc.

"Our program went downhill faster than YOUR program!!"

Na-na-na-na-na-na!! ::thumbs nose::

Boston Red
01-09-2008, 11:37 PM
He won one of those too. Oh, that's right...that one doesn't count. :p:

It's hilarious that UK fans now are using that argument. It used to royally piss them off if anyone claimed Tubby just won with Pitino's players.

BTW, they were right the first time. No one expected UK to be a serious national title contender in '98 with what they had coming back.

Cedric
01-10-2008, 12:28 AM
It's hilarious that UK fans now are using that argument. It used to royally piss them off if anyone claimed Tubby just won with Pitino's players.

BTW, they were right the first time. No one expected UK to be a serious national title contender in '98 with what they had coming back.

I got called every name in the book for saying that about Tubby. Now it's used against him. Weird as hell.

People are too worried about championships in college basketball. The tournament is fun and exciting, but it's not really a great gauge on how good a program is. Kansas hasn't won a title in almost twenty years. Duke has won 1 title in 15 years.

jmac
01-10-2008, 04:25 AM
I got called every name in the book for saying that about Tubby. Now it's used against him. Weird as hell.

People are too worried about championships in college basketball. The tournament is fun and exciting, but it's not really a great gauge on how good a program is. Kansas hasn't won a title in almost twenty years. Duke has won 1 title in 15 years.
It's not championships as much as being a top tier team year in and year out.
What if Carroll leaves USC and the next coach goes 8-4 over an extended period of time with 2 losses at home every year ?
Would that satisfy USC fans?

SunDeck
01-10-2008, 07:07 AM
Yeah, they said last night he lost close to 60 pounds to get down to 295!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Personally, I think he's still over three bills.

I have a nephew that is 6-8, 295 and he's not as fat as Deandre, by any stretch. That young man is definitely over 300.

BRM
01-10-2008, 09:03 AM
Dont bother rehashing WMR.
Most people dont understand and never will because they arent closely following the program. It's just a waste of energy trying to explain.


I understand completely. Believe me. I just love messing with WMR and his UK buddies. It's all in fun.

Hoosier fans haven't had many opportunities to give it to Cats fans the last 15 years. :)

BRM
01-10-2008, 09:05 AM
BTW, they were right the first time. No one expected UK to be a serious national title contender in '98 with what they had coming back.

That's irrelevant. He had nothing to do with that championship. ;)

durl
01-10-2008, 09:11 AM
The top talent simply wasn't coming to UK under Tubby.

Let's look at Tubby's recruits in the NBA. As far as I can tell (and correct me if I'm wrong), Tubby had one of his recruits drafted in the pros and he went in the 1st Round (Ironically, that player, Rondo, left early because he was unhappy at UK.) 5 others during Tubby's tenure went in undrafted. In contrast, Pitino was at Kentucky for 2 fewer seasons, but had 14-15 players drafted with 10 or so going in the 1st Round.

Also, Tubby's team definitely won the NCAA tourney his first year. But after that, Kentucky got to the Elite 8 3 times and exited after the second round 3 times. Losing in the 2nd Round that often wasn't good for job security.

cumberlandreds
01-10-2008, 10:24 AM
This is my take on Tubby at UK. I think at the end he was burned out. Ten years in a pressure cooker like UK is a long time. That being said I think his bench coaching his last couple of season was still far above average. But his down fall was recruiting. He just couldn't get top level talent to consistently come to UK. In fact I think he was somewhat fortunate with many players he did sign. Hayes,Fitch,Hawkins and Daniels were not top level recruits,four or five star. Maybe I am wrong there but I don't think so. The one really good class he did sign did not pan out very well. Rondo left after two years;Morris after three but really wanted leave after one. You need to recruit well every season not one out of every four. Doing that will eventually put you behind and slowly lose ground to others which happened to UK. Also it was reported that Tubby was asked to change an assistant or two to possibly find someone who was really a good recruiter. Tubby steadfastly stuck to who he had;Hobbs,Hanson and Rigot. What I thought strange was when Tubby went to Minnesota none of his assistants went with him. I really don't think all three of those guys chose on their own not to go to Minnesota. Tubby not changing an assistant because he was asked to by his boss was just being stubborn for sake of being stubborn and it may have lead to his downfall at UK.

Blimpie
01-10-2008, 11:27 AM
The top talent simply wasn't coming to UK under Tubby.

Let's look at Tubby's recruits in the NBA. As far as I can tell (and correct me if I'm wrong), Tubby had one of his recruits drafted in the pros and he went in the 1st Round (Ironically, that player, Rondo, left early because he was unhappy at UK.) 5 others during Tubby's tenure went in undrafted. In contrast, Pitino was at Kentucky for 2 fewer seasons, but had 14-15 players drafted with 10 or so going in the 1st Round.

Also, Tubby's team definitely won the NCAA tourney his first year. But after that, Kentucky got to the Elite 8 3 times and exited after the second round 3 times. Losing in the 2nd Round that often wasn't good for job security.While Pitino's run at UK was impressive, you are overstating the NBA factor somewhat. Of Pitino's UK players, eight were drafted by the NBA, including six in the first round (three lottery picks).

Hoosier Red
01-10-2008, 12:05 PM
This is my take on Tubby at UK. I think at the end he was burned out. Ten years in a pressure cooker like UK is a long time. That being said I think his bench coaching his last couple of season was still far above average. But his down fall was recruiting. He just couldn't get top level talent to consistently come to UK. In fact I think he was somewhat fortunate with many players he did sign. Hayes,Fitch,Hawkins and Daniels were not top level recruits,four or five star. Maybe I am wrong there but I don't think so. The one really good class he did sign did not pan out very well. Rondo left after two years;Morris after three but really wanted leave after one. You need to recruit well every season not one out of every four. Doing that will eventually put you behind and slowly lose ground to others which happened to UK. Also it was reported that Tubby was asked to change an assistant or two to possibly find someone who was really a good recruiter. Tubby steadfastly stuck to who he had;Hobbs,Hanson and Rigot. What I thought strange was when Tubby went to Minnesota none of his assistants went with him. I really don't think all three of those guys chose on their own not to go to Minnesota. Tubby not changing an assistant because he was asked to by his boss was just being stubborn for sake of being stubborn and it may have lead to his downfall at UK.


Too true Cumberland. I think like a lot of coaches, he just needed a change in scenery and his recruiting and coaching will both get better. Not to compare the abilities of the two coaches, but Coach Knight was like that his last 6-7 years at IU too. He took a year off, went to TT and has resumed an impressive coaching career.
There's a reason why Paterno, Bowden, and Coach K are the exception rather than the rule in college sports.

dabvu2498
01-10-2008, 12:10 PM
While Pitino's run at UK was impressive, you are overstating the NBA factor somewhat. Of Pitino's UK players, eight were drafted by the NBA, including six in the first round (three lottery picks).

1993 1 4 Jamal Mashburn Dallas Mavericks
1994 2 31 Rodney Dent Orlando Magic
1996 1 6 Antoine Walker Boston Celtics
1 16 Tony Delk Charlotte Hornets
1 19 Walter McCarty New York Knicks
2 52 Mark Pope Indiana Pacers
1997 1 6 Ron Mercer Boston Celtics
1 13 Derek Anderson Cleveland Cavaliers
1998 1 29 Nazr Mohammed Utah Jazz
1999 1 28 Scott Padgett Utah Jazz
2000 1 19 Jamaal Magloire Charlotte Hornets
2002 1 23 Tayshaun Prince Detroit Pistons

Looks like 9 or 10 first rounders and 11 or 12 overall to me, depending on whether you classify Tayshaun as a Pitino or Tubby recruit.

http://www.ukathletics.com/doc_lib/mbb_history_catsinnba.pdf

Danny Serafini
01-10-2008, 01:18 PM
FWIW, Derek Anderson wasn't a recruit, he was a transfer from Ohio St.

WMR
01-10-2008, 01:21 PM
You ready for this weekend, Dab?

Blimpie
01-10-2008, 03:30 PM
FWIW, Derek Anderson wasn't a recruit, he was a transfer from Ohio St.Beat me to it, Danny. In addition to Anderson, Mark Pope was also a transfer (from the University of Washington).

In any case--Dabvu still came up with more draft picks than what I pulled off the U of L Web site bio for Pitino.

durl
01-10-2008, 04:30 PM
Here's where I got my info on UK players in the pros since Pitino's tenure: http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/careernba.html

After looking at the info again, I have to admit I missed Tayshaun Prince and Bogans as Smith recruits. That makes 3 players drafted for Tubby: Prince, Bogans, and Rondo. But I also missed Mashburn for Pitino. That's 13-3 drafted players in favor of Pitino. Total Count in the NBA: 15-8, Pitino.

Feel free to check my numbers. I may have incorrectly assigned one or two.

dabvu2498
01-10-2008, 04:32 PM
You ready for this weekend, Dab?

I'll be there, yo.

jmac
01-10-2008, 10:29 PM
I understand completely. Believe me. I just love messing with WMR and his UK buddies. It's all in fun.

Hoosier fans haven't had many opportunities to give it to Cats fans the last 15 years. :)

:thumbup:

WVRed
01-10-2008, 10:44 PM
Here's where I got my info on UK players in the pros since Pitino's tenure: http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/careernba.html

After looking at the info again, I have to admit I missed Tayshaun Prince and Bogans as Smith recruits. That makes 3 players drafted for Tubby: Prince, Bogans, and Rondo. But I also missed Mashburn for Pitino. That's 13-3 drafted players in favor of Pitino. Total Count in the NBA: 15-8, Pitino.

Feel free to check my numbers. I may have incorrectly assigned one or two.

Not that it matters, but some of Tubby's players have worked their way onto an NBA roster.

Kelenna Azubuike, Chuck Hayes, Gerald Fitch and Erik Daniels.

durl
01-11-2008, 09:19 AM
Not that it matters, but some of Tubby's players have worked their way onto an NBA roster.

Kelenna Azubuike, Chuck Hayes, Gerald Fitch and Erik Daniels.

Yep. They're included in my "Total Count" number.

Blimpie
01-11-2008, 03:46 PM
Not that it matters, but some of Tubby's players have worked their way onto an NBA roster.

Kelenna Azubuike, Chuck Hayes, Gerald Fitch and Erik Daniels.We must not forget Randolph Morris, who signed as a free agent after going undrafted.

WMR
01-11-2008, 04:02 PM
He didn't really go undrafted. He was ineligible for the draft.

cumberlandreds
01-11-2008, 07:23 PM
He didn't really go undrafted. He was ineligible for the draft.

He was undrafted the first time around. Remember after he wasn't drafted Tubby found the magic "fax" that made him eligible again.

bucksfan2
01-12-2008, 09:22 AM
He was undrafted the first time around. Remember after he wasn't drafted Tubby found the magic "fax" that made him eligible again.

It was actually the best thing to happen to him. He was a free agent who could sign on with a pro team at any time.