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I(heart)Freel
01-11-2008, 11:08 AM
Two Angry Guys reported this morning that they got a tip from someone in the know that Krvisky could be fired today and replaced by Walt Jocketty.

They said that their source is someone very much in the know, but they added that that person could be being fed misinformation too. God knows, they said, how often they hear something from people "in the know" that turns out to be bunk.

Just thought it interesting enough to post.

smoke6
01-11-2008, 11:10 AM
There was speculation about this last year too. Personally, WK gives me the creeps and Jockety has won something. Might not be all bad if true.

will5979
01-11-2008, 11:14 AM
Wouldn't bother me none, Krivsky hasn't really made any special trades or brought any big name players here...

Bip Roberts
01-11-2008, 11:25 AM
The time to make that move was months ago. No way they try to do that now

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
01-11-2008, 11:28 AM
Wouldn't bother me none, Krivsky hasn't really made any special trades or brought any big name players here...Really? Brandon Phillips comes to mind.

I(heart)Freel
01-11-2008, 11:28 AM
Not saying it's good or bad... but let's say Walt Jocketty calls BobC last week and says, "I decided I don't like retirement. If there's a place for me in your organization I would like to discuss it."

You really think BobC says, "well... the time for that decision was months ago, Walt. Sorry."

ChatterRed
01-11-2008, 11:34 AM
The fans have no patience.

What's the point in drafting and developing talent if you want to trade it all away for a one shot attempt at a pennant, which honestly, our roster isn't quite mature or strong enough to accomplish anyway.

I'd rather build something and compete every year. I don't believe this can be done by trading away our farm system.

More and more I'm content to wait for these guys to develop.

WK has patience. His fans don't. He sees the big picture. The fans don't.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
01-11-2008, 11:53 AM
It's a tough situation Wayne's in at this point. If he gets Bedard there's a good chance the Reds make the playoffs and possibly make a very deep run with Harrang, Bedard, and Arroyo at the front of the rotation. If we keep and develope our young studs who's to say that we will be in better position to make a run at it a couple years from now than we are right now. I think it would be foolish to think that keeping the young guys automatically makes us playoff bound for years to come, who knows how they will pan out? What we do know though is that the central is as weak as it has ever been right now, so maybe it is the right time to cash in all the chips and give it a shot. If Bob is commited to a winner like he says he is then my guess is that he will step up if the young guys are traded and spend the money to replace them. If he has no plans of breaking open the piggy bank in the future I would guess that the young arms and bats will stay put unless someone makes us a no brainer offer.

Bip Roberts
01-11-2008, 11:57 AM
Not saying it's good or bad... but let's say Walt Jocketty calls BobC last week and says, "I decided I don't like retirement. If there's a place for me in your organization I would like to discuss it."

You really think BobC says, "well... the time for that decision was months ago, Walt. Sorry."

He can offer him other spots but i think firing Wayne was a decision made months ago

Bip Roberts
01-11-2008, 12:00 PM
Cashing the chips in is one thing but putting them all into the same deal is another

BEETTLEBUG
01-11-2008, 12:05 PM
If Walt has pitching in his back pocket well by Wayne.

Bip Roberts
01-11-2008, 12:06 PM
If Walt has pitching in his back pocket well by Wayne.

Is there some magical pitchers out there that everyone doesnt know exist?

AdamDunn
01-11-2008, 12:41 PM
sure... fire WK so we can get a new GM who starts a new plan for success and set ourselves back a couple of years. it doesn't make sense. we can't just change philosophies every three years and expect to win

will5979
01-11-2008, 12:47 PM
Really? Brandon Phillips comes to mind.

uh, oh yeah! Guess I blew that one!

will5979
01-11-2008, 12:51 PM
The fans have no patience.
WK has patience. His fans don't. He sees the big picture. The fans don't.

Maybe we don't have patience. I believe that I've had patience for the past 7 years waiting for this great team that was to be built around the Jr. Griffey trade, then there was the team that was to win in 03 with the opening of GAB, then there was the supposedly playoff run of last year...

AdamDunn
01-11-2008, 12:56 PM
Maybe we don't have patience. I believe that I've had patience for the past 7 years waiting for this great team that was to be built around the Jr. Griffey trade, then there was the team that was to win in 03 with the opening of GAB, then there was the supposedly playoff run of last year...

That's how things work in the baseball world, especially for small-market teams. Small-market teams plan around one year, and if it doesn't work, then they have to start all over again. They can't just go out and sign free agents to fix whatever position they need to. Unfortunately, the previous GM's didn't understand the importance of pitching, so the Reds built our SP around people like Cory Lidle and Joey Hamilton during the years the Reds were suppose to win. WK seems to understand the importance of SP (of course so did DanO, but he screwed himself with Eric Milton). So right now, while I don't agree with every move he makes, for the most part, I like him better than the previous GM's we have had.

will5979
01-11-2008, 01:50 PM
So right now, while I don't agree with every move he makes, for the most part, I like him better than the previous GM's we have had.

I yeah I do agree with you on that part! Bowden definitely made some bonehead moves over the years and I definitely like Krivsky much better than what we had...to be honest I can't really blame DanO for Eric Milton, at the time it seemed like the right thing to do.

OldRed1966
01-11-2008, 02:28 PM
Somebody tried to tell everyone this a few weeks ago. ;)





Krivsky will be reassigned sometime in January, and Walt Jocketty will be named the GM.


You can write it down. It will happen. Jocketty will be the GM

DannyB
01-11-2008, 02:36 PM
Somebody tried to tell everyone this a few weeks ago. ;)

Are you the one telling the angry guys?

DannyB
01-11-2008, 02:40 PM
I am not a big fan of WK but replacing him with Jocketty would really be a lateral move.

OldRed1966
01-11-2008, 02:51 PM
Are you the one telling the angry guys?


Nope. I live in Ashland, Ky and can't even listen to the Angry Guys. I know how good my source is though. He told me about Steve Stewart not being rehired two months before the story even broke.

Krawhitham
01-11-2008, 02:55 PM
The fans have no patience.

7 straight losing seasons and 12 seasons without the playoffs will do that

durl
01-11-2008, 03:05 PM
I guess there are some people that think you can take a run-down house in need of extensive repair, spend a few hundred dollars, and have a mansion in 3 months.

mroby85
01-11-2008, 03:16 PM
Phillips
Arroyo
Burton (Rule 5)
Hamilton (Rule 5)- have to see what Volquez does.
isn't krivsky also part of the reason for the strong farm system that is in place now?

I'll admit, i don't always love his trades, such as the hamilton one for example, but i really don't understand all the hatin that goes on around here in his direction. I for one, don't think he's done a terrible job.

Old NDN
01-11-2008, 03:25 PM
I think it's more of a dislike of his personality than performance for some. Perceived to be unfriendly and wary. The fact that he doesn't leak info or "throw us a bone" once in a while only adds to our frustration.

Krawhitham
01-11-2008, 04:09 PM
The Reds have hired Walt Jocketty as special assistant to the owner. Wayne Krivsky stays as GM.

Krawhitham
01-11-2008, 04:11 PM
Krivsky and Jocketty will be on conference call at 3:30 p.m

I(heart)Freel
01-11-2008, 04:11 PM
I am not a big fan of WK but replacing him with Jocketty would really be a lateral move.

That seems short-sighted. Going from a first-time GM with 2 years experience in the big chair to a guy who has seven division titles and two Exec of the Year awards isn't quite lateral.

That said, I'm not a Krivsky hater by any stretch. Like what he's done. But you have to respect Jocketty's resume.

Krawhitham
01-11-2008, 04:11 PM
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/

757690
01-11-2008, 04:18 PM
This a very impressive move. Jocketty is great at developing an overall game plan for an organization and sticking to it, and at handling the press. Those has been Krivsky's main weaknesses, obviously.

wlf WV
01-11-2008, 04:18 PM
My understanding was the big C stated emphatically WK was his man. If Big C feels he should be replaced, I need an explanation.

Oxilon
01-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Make or break year for Wayne. This just proves it, IMO.

ickey333
01-11-2008, 04:29 PM
Not much of a poster generally, but as a huge Reds fans this hiring is obviously a big deal. However, any speculation on the bolded part of this quote from BCast?:

"We are fortunate to be able to add to our baseball department someone who has had as much success in the game as Walt. Clearly, he is a proven winner and his experience will be invaluable to me and to our entire organization," Castellini said. "He wants to keep his hand in baseball this season. When you have the chance to hire someone with his credentials, you have to take advantage of that opportunity. We're doing everything we can to improve our franchise."

It seems like if you read into it that Jocketty is either 1) just a temporary advisor until something better comes along or 2) that Krivsky is just keeping the GM seat warm until next year when his contract has expired and Jocketty steps in.

I personally like what Krivsky has done so far, but I guess it doesn't hurt if there is a ready replacement if things don't work out. If these two can co-exist, it could be great news for Reds fans.

wlf WV
01-11-2008, 04:35 PM
Make or break year for Wayne. This just proves it, IMO.

Yes,Mr. Jocketty's comment put WK as "only in the Reds organization".

I(heart)Freel
01-11-2008, 04:40 PM
Random observation...

I feel like since I've heard Jocketty's name for so long that he was an older type.

Nope. Wiki'ed him. He's going to be 57 this year.

That's a lot of baseball career left, methinks.

Bip Roberts
01-11-2008, 04:44 PM
Never can have too many baseball minds in your organization

Oxilon
01-11-2008, 04:46 PM
Given Jocketty's history as a GM for the Cardinals, nearly always trading prospects for MLB starters (Rolen, Edmonds, Mulder, McGwire, etc...), I'd suspect the Bedard rumors intensify really soon.

Brian
01-11-2008, 04:49 PM
I'm not sure Walt makes an immediate impact on this team, but I see no reason he'll hurt anything. I doubt it's a shot across Wayne's bow as much as Castellini had an opportunity to bring in another good mind for a season, maybe more.

757690
01-11-2008, 04:56 PM
Given Jocketty's history as a GM for the Cardinals, nearly always trading prospects for MLB starters (Rolen, Edmonds, Mulder, McGwire, etc...), I'd suspect the Bedard rumors intensify really soon.

You are right, that he likes veterans, but I think that the big four are safe. That doesn't mean he won't find a way to get Bedard without giving up the farm.

He rarely traded a top prospect for these guys. Except for Haren, none of the guys he gave up for those veterans were top prospects, or ever amounted to much. Most of his trades are steals.

I also can't think of any prospects other than Haren that Jocketty traded that became stars elsewhere. Maybe some one can come up with one or two, but I can't off the top of my head.

mlbfan30
01-11-2008, 04:59 PM
Jockety is known to produce horrible farm systems and have horrible drafts. He cannot develop pitching, and is the type that will trade away young talent for "proven veterans". He loves "guys who plays the game the right way." Sounds familiar? He has always used fringe starters with past injury problems and bad results to put together his rotation. You can name many many starters who were given a chance by the Cards after no a little success.

Think about how lucky the Cards orginization was. They got extremely lucky with Pujols becoming what he is, and with Carpenter suddenly staying injury free (until last year) after have major shoulder surgery. But who else did they develop? Jockety got fired partly because he wanted to continue his veteran love, while other people wanted to move more towards youth. Thats not what the Reds need and I can see some really stupid moved happening.

Before I thought the Votto/EE/Cueto/Bailey deal wasn't going to happen since WK might be smart enough to realize how lopsided that is. Now, I think it's almost a garentee the Reds are getting Bedard. The Reds will give up....

6 Years of Bruce
6 Years of Cueto
6 Years of Bailey
3 Years of EE

for...

2 Years of Bedard

That's 21 years of extremely cheap talent for 2 years of slightly underpriced talent.
Jocketty is an absolutly horrible move, and people don't understand how he works. People see World Series without looking deeper.

mlbfan30
01-11-2008, 05:04 PM
You are right, that he likes veterans, but I think that the big four are safe. That doesn't mean he won't find a way to get Bedard without giving up the farm.

He rarely traded a top prospect for these guys. Except for Haren, none of the guys he gave up for those veterans were top prospects, or ever amounted to much. Most of his trades are steals.

I also can't think of any prospects other than Haren that Jocketty traded that became stars elsewhere. Maybe some one can come up with one or two, but I can't off the top of my head.

The great part about your statements is that there were no top prospects. The Cards system didn't have any to trade to begin with. To say he didn't give up anything good might be "correct" but there is a reason for that.
The Cards have produced nothing, and Jockety is the souce of that with his horrible drafting and development.

Obviously Pujols is the exception. If it weren't pure luck signing for the 13th round pick because some scout really liked him, Jocketty would be a nobody. He would have been fired a LONG time ago.

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 05:04 PM
You are right, that he likes veterans, but I think that the big four are safe. That doesn't mean he won't find a way to get Bedard without giving up the farm.

He rarely traded a top prospect for these guys. Except for Haren, none of the guys he gave up for those veterans were top prospects, or ever amounted to much. Most of his trades are steals.

I also can't think of any prospects other than Haren that Jocketty traded that became stars elsewhere. Maybe some one can come up with one or two, but I can't off the top of my head.

Daric Barton is going to be given an opportunity this year to see what he's got...

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 05:05 PM
you know how two QB's in football never works? This is how I see the Reds FO now...

SultanOfSwing
01-11-2008, 05:09 PM
Jockety is known to produce horrible farm systems and have horrible drafts. He cannot develop pitching, and is the type that will trade away young talent for "proven veterans". He loves "guys who plays the game the right way." Sounds familiar? He has always used fringe starters with past injury problems and bad results to put together his rotation. You can name many many starters who were given a chance by the Cards after no a little success.

Think about how lucky the Cards orginization was. They got extremely lucky with Pujols becoming what he is, and with Carpenter suddenly staying injury free (until last year) after have major shoulder surgery. But who else did they develop? Jockety got fired partly because he wanted to continue his veteran love, while other people wanted to move more towards youth. Thats not what the Reds need and I can see some really stupid moved happening.

Before I thought the Votto/EE/Cueto/Bailey deal wasn't going to happen since WK might be smart enough to realize how lopsided that is. Now, I think it's almost a garentee the Reds are getting Bedard. The Reds will give up....

6 Years of Bruce
6 Years of Cueto
6 Years of Bailey
3 Years of EE

for...

2 Years of Bedard

That's 21 years of extremely cheap talent for 2 years of slightly underpriced talent.
Jocketty is an absolutly horrible move, and people don't understand how he works. People see World Series without looking deeper.
I am afraid your assessment of Jocketty is misguided at best. In no way can I see this move hurting the Reds, only helping them.

Where have you ever heard that a package even remotely close to the one you proposed has been offered or discussed? What in Jocketty's history makes you believe he would even consider such a trade?

Until such a move is mentioned there is no reason for such negativity.

Oxilon
01-11-2008, 05:15 PM
you know how two QB's in football never works? This is how I see the Reds FO now...

I'd say it worked to perfection for Florida with Chris Leak and Tim Tebow last year.

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 05:17 PM
I am afraid your assessment of Jocketty is misguided at best. In no way can I see this move hurting the Reds, only helping them.

Where have you ever heard that a package even remotely close to the one you proposed has been offered or discussed? What in Jocketty's history makes you believe he would even consider such a trade?

Until such a move is mentioned there is no reason for such negativity.

have you read the entire thread? Jocketty prefers vets and doesn't develope young talent...

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 05:17 PM
I'd say it worked to perfection for Florida with Chris Leak and Tim Tebow last year.

Tebow was used as a running back IMO

mlbfan30
01-11-2008, 05:26 PM
I am afraid your assessment of Jocketty is misguided at best. In no way can I see this move hurting the Reds, only helping them.

Where have you ever heard that a package even remotely close to the one you proposed has been offered or discussed? What in Jocketty's history makes you believe he would even consider such a trade?

Until such a move is mentioned there is no reason for such negativity.

WOW.... have you ever heard of the trade.....

Danny Haren, Kiko Calero, Daric Barton for Mark Mulder

That's one of the best SP in baseball, a very very good RP, and one of the best prospects in baseball that's the equal that Votto is now. All these guys were the top Cards prospects and all would eventually be cheap for a long time.
Another parallel.... Mulder had been injured the season before the trade (like Bedard) and was considered one of the best SP in baseball (like Bedard). Both had 2 years left. However Mulder got hurt after his 1st season, and hasn't done anything afterwards. This trade was essentially....

3 years of Haren (which were all better than Mulder) AND
4 years of Calero
6 years of Barton
6 years of Gonzalez
6 years of Carter
6 years of Cunningham
6 years of Anderson
6 years of Smith
6 years of Eveland

Some of these guys you don't know, but the point is that the A's got better production from just 1 SP than Mulder, and got a potential additional 46 years of decent production.

Oxilon
01-11-2008, 05:31 PM
I really don't care as long as it nets us a World Series Championship like it did for Jocketty in St. Louis.

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 05:34 PM
I really don't care as long as it nets us a World Series Championship like it did for Jocketty in St. Louis.

I really don't care that I went all-in with a 2/7 offsuit as long as I won the hand. Surely this method will work again next hand... :rolleyes:

SultanOfSwing
01-11-2008, 05:50 PM
WOW.... have you ever heard of the trade.....

Danny Haren, Kiko Calero, Daric Barton for Mark Mulder

That's one of the best SP in baseball, a very very good RP, and one of the best prospects in baseball that's the equal that Votto is now. All these guys were the top Cards prospects and all would eventually be cheap for a long time.
Another parallel.... Mulder had been injured the season before the trade (like Bedard) and was considered one of the best SP in baseball (like Bedard). Both had 2 years left. However Mulder got hurt after his 1st season, and hasn't done anything afterwards. This trade was essentially....

3 years of Haren (which were all better than Mulder) AND
4 years of Calero
6 years of Barton
6 years of Gonzalez
6 years of Carter
6 years of Cunningham
6 years of Anderson
6 years of Smith
6 years of Eveland

Some of these guys you don't know, but the point is that the A's got better production from just 1 SP than Mulder, and got a potential additional 46 years of decent production.
Yes, I am familiar with that trade. In hindsight, yes it favored the A's in the end.

However the Cards did get this out of Mulder before he was injured:


2005 27 STL NL 16 8 32 32 3 2 0 0 205.0 212 90 83 19 70 111 9 9 868 1 0 3.64 4.23 116 1.376

Would you take that if he had been able to repeat (again barring injury)? Absolutely.

Injuries are unpredicable and can happen to prospects and veterns alike.

Regarding what Jocketty gave up:

Haren was highly regarded and definitely one of the top 2 Cardinal SP prospects at that time. To the Cardinals he was equivalent to Bailey or Cueto, however in comparison to the entire league he just a notch below.

Calero was an older RP prospect who was far from irreplacable. After two solid years with Oakland, he is now wearing down and has lost his luster.

Barton was well thought of B-type catcher prospect. He was later converted to 1B and has looked solid. However, it took him 4 years to look similar to Votto.

If we were to make up an equivalent trade with Reds players it might be like this:

Bailey, Bray/Belisle, Danny Dorn for Eric Bedard.

Are you saying you wouldn't do that in a heartbeat? I would.

durl
01-11-2008, 05:51 PM
Please let me know if I'm analyzing this wrong:

Jocketty was over a proven winner in St. Louis. He also had a payroll of $120 million. He prefers veterans that cost much more than prospects. That seems at odds with the Cincinnati model. Also, it seems to me that with $120 million payroll, you SHOULD have a winner every year.

Given the fact that Cincinnati doesn't have the revenue of St. Louis, does Jocketty have the experience to build a winner when not relying on expensive veterans?

SultanOfSwing
01-11-2008, 05:54 PM
Please let me know if I'm analyzing this wrong:

Jocketty was over a proven winner in St. Louis. He also had a payroll of $120 million. He prefers veterans that cost much more than prospects. That seems at odds with the Cincinnati model. Also, it seems to me that with $120 million payroll, you SHOULD have a winner every year.

Given the fact that Cincinnati doesn't have the revenue of St. Louis, does Jocketty have the experience to build a winner when not relying on expensive veterans?
The Cards only had that payroll after several years of success and fan support. If the Reds experience the same, the fans will show up and the payroll will go up.

Oxilon
01-11-2008, 06:02 PM
I really don't care that I went all-in with a 2/7 offsuit as long as I won the hand. Surely this method will work again next hand... :rolleyes:

Horrible analogy. Jocketty compiled a World Series team through dealing his team's prospects for proven commodities. Rolen, Edmonds, Mulder, and even Larry Walker were all acquired by Jocketty through his trades, which eventually netted him a World Series Championship, which is the ultimate goal in the end. And to go on and say he won the World Series by luck is complete hogwash and drivel.

757690
01-11-2008, 07:05 PM
The great part about your statements is that there were no top prospects. The Cards system didn't have any to trade to begin with. To say he didn't give up anything good might be "correct" but there is a reason for that.
The Cards have produced nothing, and Jockety is the souce of that with his horrible drafting and development.

Obviously Pujols is the exception. If it weren't pure luck signing for the 13th round pick because some scout really liked him, Jocketty would be a nobody. He would have been fired a LONG time ago.

Braden Looper
Adam Kennedy
J.D. Drew
Daric Barton
Colby Rasmus
Rick Ankeil
Xavier Nady (did not sign)
Jack Wilson
Chris Duncan
Coco Crisp
Albert Pujols
Yadier Molina
Danny Haren
Skip Schumaker
Brad Thompson
Brendan Ryan
Anthony Reyes

All Drafted by Jocketty form 1996 to 2005. 17 major leagues who will play or who have played major roles for their team. That is two more then the Twins have drafted, and they are considered to be one of the best drafting organizations. And it is close to twice as many as the Reds have drafted.

To say "The Cards have produced nothing, and Jockety is the souce of that with his horrible drafting and development," is flat out wrong.

Yes, he does favor veterans, but he does not have a history, except for the Mulder trade, of trading quality prospects for veterans. And Mulder helped them win the division and win 100 games in the one year that he was healthy. If Mulder stays healthy, it is a good trade for everyone.

Jocketty has a history of developing a strong game plan for each season, and following through on it. That is why the Cardinals were in contention 8 out of the 12 years he was GM, and they had a ten year period of only one losing season.

757690
01-11-2008, 07:22 PM
Daric Barton is going to be given an opportunity this year to see what he's got...

thanks, I also came up with Cocco Crisp and Jack Wilson. Still that is not that many in twelve years.

jmac
01-11-2008, 07:34 PM
The Cards only had that payroll after several years of success and fan support. If the Reds experience the same, the fans will show up and the payroll will go up.

Thank You !

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 07:43 PM
Horrible analogy. Jocketty compiled a World Series team through dealing his team's prospects for proven commodities. Rolen, Edmonds, Mulder, and even Larry Walker were all acquired by Jocketty through his trades, which eventually netted him a World Series Championship, which is the ultimate goal in the end. And to go on and say he won the World Series by luck is complete hogwash and drivel.

yeah he won the World Series becuase of luck. His team was probably the 8th best team in the playoffs that year...

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 07:44 PM
Braden Looper
Adam Kennedy
J.D. Drew
Daric Barton
Colby Rasmus
Rick Ankeil
Xavier Nady (did not sign)
Jack Wilson
Chris Duncan
Coco Crisp
Albert Pujols
Yadier Molina
Danny Haren
Skip Schumaker
Brad Thompson
Brendan Ryan
Anthony Reyes

All Drafted by Jocketty form 1996 to 2005. 17 major leagues who will play or who have played major roles for their team. That is two more then the Twins have drafted, and they are considered to be one of the best drafting organizations. And it is close to twice as many as the Reds have drafted.

To say "The Cards have produced nothing, and Jockety is the souce of that with his horrible drafting and development," is flat out wrong.

Yes, he does favor veterans, but he does not have a history, except for the Mulder trade, of trading quality prospects for veterans. And Mulder helped them win the division and win 100 games in the one year that he was healthy. If Mulder stays healthy, it is a good trade for everyone.

Jocketty has a history of developing a strong game plan for each season, and following through on it. That is why the Cardinals were in contention 8 out of the 12 years he was GM, and they had a ten year period of only one losing season.

I'm not ready to say those last 4 have played "major roles" on a ML team...

757690
01-11-2008, 07:47 PM
yeah he won the World Series becuase of luck. His team was probably the 8th best team in the playoffs that year...

Yeah, but they were the best team in 2004 and lost in the World Series to the Red Sox, so I guess it evens out.

Going to the playoffs 7 out of 12 years,with two 100 wins season, and two trips the the Series is not luck.

Bip Roberts
01-11-2008, 07:49 PM
Hes not our GM, lets worry about him being our GM some other time

757690
01-11-2008, 07:50 PM
I'm not ready to say those last 4 have played "major roles" on a ML team...

I said will play next year. All will be starting for the Cardinals in 08.

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 07:51 PM
Yeah, but they were the best team in 2004 and lost in the World Series to the Red Sox, so I guess it evens out.

Going to the playoffs 7 out of 12 years,with two 100 wins season, and two trips the the Series is not luck.

Just because you have won the WS it doesn't mean you're a great GM (Exhibit A- Kenny Williams). Just because you haven't won the WS it doesn't mean you're not a great GM (Exhibit B- Billy Beane). Why was Jocketty let go if he is such a great GM? (because the Cardinals are in for a few rough seasons)...

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 07:53 PM
He stinks of Kenny Williams

757690
01-11-2008, 08:04 PM
Just because you have won the WS it doesn't mean you're a great GM (Exhibit A- Kenny Williams).

Correct, but going to the playoffs 7 out of 12 years, with two 100 wins season, and two trips the the Series means you pretty good, and better than most.


Just because you haven't won the WS it doesn't mean you're not a great GM (Exhibit B- Billy Beane).

Yes it does. Winning the World Series is why the game is played. If you can't do that in 10 years, you are not a great GM. You might be pretty good, and better than most, but you are not great.



Why was Jocketty let go if he is such a great GM? (because the Cardinals are in for a few rough seasons)...

Maybe, but if it take 12 years of contending before the Reds struggle again.....

And good GM's get fired all the time.

757690
01-11-2008, 08:06 PM
He stinks of Kenny Williams

Except for the fact that they both won the World Series this decade, there is very little they have in common.

And I would rather have Kenny Williams and one World Series title than Billy Beane and none.

AmarilloRed
01-11-2008, 08:08 PM
Let's worry about it when he becomes the GM. All Jocketty is right now is the Special Advisor to the Owner, whatever that means.

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 08:15 PM
Except for the fact that they both won the World Series this decade, there is very little they have in common.

And I would rather have Kenny Williams and one World Series title than Billy Beane and none.

So Kenny Williams is a better GM than Billy Beane?

SultanOfSwing
01-11-2008, 08:18 PM
So Kenny Williams is a better GM than Billy Beane?
His end results (i.e. World Series) certainly are.

I think 757690 is saying if a poor GM gets you a World Series even at the cost of the future it is better than no World Series but an always bright future. Just ask A's and Twins fans.

Bip Roberts
01-11-2008, 08:20 PM
I think Billy Beane is closer to being a bad GM than he is a good one

*BaseClogger*
01-11-2008, 08:25 PM
So we want a bad GM who won the WS over a good GM that hasn't won the WS?

Who gives us the better chance of winning one IN THE FUTURE?

Bip Roberts
01-11-2008, 08:28 PM
I dont understand the hype around Beane

SultanOfSwing
01-11-2008, 08:42 PM
So we want a bad GM who won the WS over a good GM that hasn't won the WS?

Who gives us the better chance of winning one IN THE FUTURE?

I agree Kenny Williams is probably not a good GM. However, other teams can say all they want about him and how the White Sox are run, but at the end of the day he has the WS ring--they don't.

Maybe Kenny Williams didn't play it smart, didn't draft and scout well and made poor trades, but it won a World Series for him. Which scenario would you prefer:


Hire Kenny Williams
Series of bad moves for the future
World Series!!!
Series of bad moves for the future
Fire Kenny Williams
Hire good GM


or


Hire Billy Beane
Series of great moves for the future
Miss playoffs
Exit playoffs early
Series of great moves for the future
Miss playoffs
Look great for the future


The point is Beane hasn't won a World Series and Williams has. If you were to bet on which would win one next, the smart money would obviously be on Beane. However, he may never win one and the A's fans will be disappointed. WS come along for most teams once in a lifetime. To have won one in the last 15 years is a whole lot more than 80% of the teams can claim. It is the ultimate goal.

HokieRed
01-11-2008, 09:04 PM
To me this means Castellini is completely out of date. First he has hired, encouraged, and retained Krivsky; now he goes out and gets somebody worse, Jocketty. I hope Krivsky survives what will be an inevitable conflict but I suspect Jocketty will be the GM one year from now.

Vada Pinson Fan
01-11-2008, 10:00 PM
Jockety is known to produce horrible farm systems and have horrible drafts. He cannot develop pitching, and is the type that will trade away young talent for "proven veterans". He loves "guys who plays the game the right way." Sounds familiar? He has always used fringe starters with past injury problems and bad results to put together his rotation. You can name many many starters who were given a chance by the Cards after no a little success.

Think about how lucky the Cards orginization was. They got extremely lucky with Pujols becoming what he is, and with Carpenter suddenly staying injury free (until last year) after have major shoulder surgery. But who else did they develop? Jockety got fired partly because he wanted to continue his veteran love, while other people wanted to move more towards youth. Thats not what the Reds need and I can see some really stupid moved happening.

Before I thought the Votto/EE/Cueto/Bailey deal wasn't going to happen since WK might be smart enough to realize how lopsided that is. Now, I think it's almost a garentee the Reds are getting Bedard. The Reds will give up....

6 Years of Bruce
6 Years of Cueto
6 Years of Bailey
3 Years of EE

for...

2 Years of Bedard

That's 21 years of extremely cheap talent for 2 years of slightly underpriced talent.
Jocketty is an absolutly horrible move, and people don't understand how he works. People see World Series without looking deeper.

Amen. Very nice post mlbfan30! Giving up all those "cheap" years of Bruce, Bailey, Cueto, EE or whomever really puts things in perspective. I mean after 2 years of Bedard why wouldn't Erik want to be paid as much as possible, meaning Hello-Yankees, Hello-Red Sox, Hello-Angels, Hello-Dodgers.
Goodbye to the team that traded all that for 2 years of EB.

Leave it alone, Walt Jocketty. Just advise. Don't demand.

kcjones
01-11-2008, 10:16 PM
I think it's more of a dislike of his personality than performance for some. Perceived to be unfriendly and wary. The fact that he doesn't leak info or "throw us a bone" once in a while only adds to our frustration.
What do you expect for someone trained under Terry Ryan. He's smart to keep his mouth shut.

*BaseClogger*
01-12-2008, 03:10 AM
I agree Kenny Williams is probably not a good GM. However, other teams can say all they want about him and how the White Sox are run, but at the end of the day he has the WS ring--they don't.

Maybe Kenny Williams didn't play it smart, didn't draft and scout well and made poor trades, but it won a World Series for him. Which scenario would you prefer:


Hire Kenny Williams
Series of bad moves for the future
World Series!!!
Series of bad moves for the future
Fire Kenny Williams
Hire good GM


or


Hire Billy Beane
Series of great moves for the future
Miss playoffs
Exit playoffs early
Series of great moves for the future
Miss playoffs
Look great for the future


The point is Beane hasn't won a World Series and Williams has. If you were to bet on which would win one next, the smart money would obviously be on Beane. However, he may never win one and the A's fans will be disappointed. WS come along for most teams once in a lifetime. To have won one in the last 15 years is a whole lot more than 80% of the teams can claim. It is the ultimate goal.

So if the smart odds are on Beane, then I want Beane to run my team, not the guy who did it in the past because he got lucky (Williams, Jockety)...

Oxilon
01-12-2008, 03:18 AM
So if the smart odds are on Beane, then I want Beane to run my team, not the guy who did it in the past because he got lucky (Williams, Jockety)...

Baseball isn't like a game of blackjack. You don't win by getting lucky. It's not like Kenny Williams or Walt Jocketty just randomly compiled his team and got lucky and got into the playoffs and eventually won the World Series. Hell, if it was all about luck, you'd think the Reds would have atleast seen a playoff appearance since '95, right? And the Yankees and Red Sox wouldn't always be going to the playoffs. I mean, the law of averages will even all things out.

*BaseClogger*
01-12-2008, 03:20 AM
Baseball isn't like a game of blackjack. You don't win by getting lucky. It's not like Kenny Williams or Walt Jocketty just randomly compiled his team and got lucky and got into the playoffs and eventually won the World Series. Hell, if it was all about luck, you'd think the Reds would have atleast seen a playoff appearance since '95, right? And the Yankees and Red Sox wouldn't always be going to the playoffs. I mean, the law of averages will even all things out.

no such thing as the law of averages... and no, its not solely luck. However the Yanks and Red Sox, and even the White Sox, were spending way more than the small market teams just a few years ago and the asking price when it comes to prospects in trades used to be much lower so they basically held a monopoly. The White Sox were run poorly, but not as bad as the Reds...

I would also argue that winning black jack isn't only about luck

757690
01-12-2008, 03:40 AM
So if the smart odds are on Beane, then I want Beane to run my team, not the guy who did it in the past because he got lucky (Williams, Jockety)...

I don't agree that Williams got lucky or that the odds are that Beane will win a WS before Williams does again.

Williams won because he was very aggressive and made it his mission to win a World Series one year, not build a strong team for the future. It is not like he made bad, dumb moves that paid off by luck, but he made moves that improved the team in the short run at the expense of the long term health of the organization.
He brought in Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon, Jose Contreras, A.J. Pierzynski, Carl Everett, Orlando Hernandez, Tadahito Iguchi, Scott Podsednik, Jermaine Dye all to help win right now. And he did it because the White Sox had not won a World Series since 1917.

Beane is only concerned with building the strongest organization year to year. He never goes for it, he never goes and gets that guy who will put the A's over the top. He makes sure that they can compete, or are rebuilding to compete. But he never goes for the gold, never takes chances. That is why the A's have won exactly one series in the post season with Beane at the helm. Unless Beane changes his philosophy, the A's will never win, or even go the the WS with him in charge.

Beane is a very good GM and is better on paper than Williams. But I would rather the Reds win a WS once every 10 years, and have 7 terrible years in between, than have 10 really good years, and never win a ring.

fourrunhomer
01-12-2008, 10:33 AM
Keep Krivsky. I think hiring Jocketty brings undue potential for conflict. Krivsky has done an exellant job.

wlf WV
01-12-2008, 12:49 PM
Out of all this surmising,I expect one thing for certain,WK did not ask Mr.C to hire Jocketty.I believe our organization is less stable than before.

mlbfan30
01-12-2008, 01:12 PM
I don't agree that Williams got lucky or that the odds are that Beane will win a WS before Williams does again.

Williams won because he was very aggressive and made it his mission to win a World Series one year, not build a strong team for the future. It is not like he made bad, dumb moves that paid off by luck, but he made moves that improved the team in the short run at the expense of the long term health of the organization.
He brought in Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon, Jose Contreras, A.J. Pierzynski, Carl Everett, Orlando Hernandez, Tadahito Iguchi, Scott Podsednik, Jermaine Dye all to help win right now. And he did it because the White Sox had not won a World Series since 1917.

Beane is only concerned with building the strongest organization year to year. He never goes for it, he never goes and gets that guy who will put the A's over the top. He makes sure that they can compete, or are rebuilding to compete. But he never goes for the gold, never takes chances. That is why the A's have won exactly one series in the post season with Beane at the helm. Unless Beane changes his philosophy, the A's will never win, or even go the the WS with him in charge.

Beane is a very good GM and is better on paper than Williams. But I would rather the Reds win a WS once every 10 years, and have 7 terrible years in between, than have 10 really good years, and never win a ring.

Except there is one major flaw in saying this, and that is payroll. Beane does what he can within the payroll constraints. It's not his fault the Owner doesn't put more money into the team, we all know what an owner like Lindner does.
The A's have had lower payroll than the Reds for most of those seasons past 2000, yet made the playoffs a bunch of times. Yet the Reds were one of the worst teams in NL all those years.
The Sox were at 50M in 2003. Then each year the payroll increased to 65M-75M-100M-110M. So yeah he won, but he also spent a lot. The OWNER allowed him to. Another thing is that right now, the Sox farm system is on of the 3 worst in baseball, while the A's are now top 10.
As for the Cards. their payroll has always been high. It has been between around 80-90M every year since 2001, while the have been around 45-60M since 2001, (except last year).

The payroll isn't everything, but what it allows is mistakes. A team with a 100M budget can afford to sign some guys who don't perform and still make the playoffs. A team like the A's has to do this with very few mistakes, and small mistakes. Give Beane a lot higher payroll and he wouldnt need to trade Haren and Swisher because owner wouldn't be saying "you can't go over this number in x years".

Jack Burton
01-12-2008, 03:44 PM
Keep Krivsky. I think hiring Jocketty brings undue potential for conflict. Krivsky has done an exellant job.

I wouldn't quite say it has been excellent.

I like the move, bringing a proven winner aboard can't hurt.

757690
01-12-2008, 04:01 PM
Except there is one major flaw in saying this, and that is payroll. Beane does what he can within the payroll constraints. It's not his fault the Owner doesn't put more money into the team, we all know what an owner like Lindner does.
The A's have had lower payroll than the Reds for most of those seasons past 2000, yet made the playoffs a bunch of times. Yet the Reds were one of the worst teams in NL all those years.
The Sox were at 50M in 2003. Then each year the payroll increased to 65M-75M-100M-110M. So yeah he won, but he also spent a lot. The OWNER allowed him to. Another thing is that right now, the Sox farm system is on of the 3 worst in baseball, while the A's are now top 10.
As for the Cards. their payroll has always been high. It has been between around 80-90M every year since 2001, while the have been around 45-60M since 2001, (except last year).

The payroll isn't everything, but what it allows is mistakes. A team with a 100M budget can afford to sign some guys who don't perform and still make the playoffs. A team like the A's has to do this with very few mistakes, and small mistakes. Give Beane a lot higher payroll and he wouldnt need to trade Haren and Swisher because owner wouldn't be saying "you can't go over this number in x years".

I agree that Beane is confined by payroll, but the Marlins won two WS with a low payroll, and the Rockies, the Astros the Tigers went to the WS the last three years with a low payroll. It can be done, although it is harder in the AL.

Also, the White Sox now are at $100M but in the years leading up and including to their WS win, they had a payroll not much more than the A's. It is not like the A's are the Devil Rays. Their payroll is at around $60M most years.

But I agree that Williams has an advantage over Beane in that he could increase his budget if he thought it would bring the team a title,and Beane can't. Still other teams found ways around this.

*BaseClogger*
01-12-2008, 04:48 PM
I don't agree that Williams got lucky or that the odds are that Beane will win a WS before Williams does again.

Williams won because he was very aggressive and made it his mission to win a World Series one year, not build a strong team for the future. It is not like he made bad, dumb moves that paid off by luck, but he made moves that improved the team in the short run at the expense of the long term health of the organization.
He brought in Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon, Jose Contreras, A.J. Pierzynski, Carl Everett, Orlando Hernandez, Tadahito Iguchi, Scott Podsednik, Jermaine Dye all to help win right now. And he did it because the White Sox had not won a World Series since 1917.

Beane is only concerned with building the strongest organization year to year. He never goes for it, he never goes and gets that guy who will put the A's over the top. He makes sure that they can compete, or are rebuilding to compete. But he never goes for the gold, never takes chances. That is why the A's have won exactly one series in the post season with Beane at the helm. Unless Beane changes his philosophy, the A's will never win, or even go the the WS with him in charge.

Beane is a very good GM and is better on paper than Williams. But I would rather the Reds win a WS once every 10 years, and have 7 terrible years in between, than have 10 really good years, and never win a ring.

Two Questions then:

1. Will that strategy work with the Reds? Is that what you want, because that is what Jockety does best?

2. How is it that the A's have never gone for it all? Johnny Damon? Jermaine Dye? Ray Durham? Jose Guillen? Octavio Dotel? Those are just a few of the midseason moves I could think of...

*BaseClogger*
01-12-2008, 04:49 PM
Keep Krivsky. I think hiring Jocketty brings undue potential for conflict. Krivsky has done an exellant job.

b-i-n-g-o

*BaseClogger*
01-12-2008, 04:57 PM
I agree that Beane is confined by payroll, but the Marlins won two WS with a low payroll, and the Rockies, the Astros the Tigers went to the WS the last three years with a low payroll. It can be done, although it is harder in the AL.

Also, the White Sox now are at $100M but in the years leading up and including to their WS win, they had a payroll not much more than the A's. It is not like the A's are the Devil Rays. Their payroll is at around $60M most years.

But I agree that Williams has an advantage over Beane in that he could increase his budget if he thought it would bring the team a title,and Beane can't. Still other teams found ways around this.

The Rockies and Marlins are good examples, but the Astros and Tigers aren't. The Marlins concept I love, but it kills your ticket sales and fans. Since we can spend more than $10 million every couple of years, I say no to that strategy. The Rockies didn't win the world series, so Dan'ODowd must be a terrible GM. The Astros and Tigers definitly spent some $$$. The Astros spent around $80, and remember that this is 2004 money. The Tigers also spent. Rembember Mags, Rogers, and Pudge? Those teams both spent money to improve. And as MLBfan30 said, Kenny Williams team improved once the payrolls increased. Who can't start winning with dramatic payroll increases? (Well, I guess the Orioles :))

757690
01-12-2008, 05:25 PM
Two Questions then:

1. Will that strategy work with the Reds? Is that what you want, because that is what Jockety does best?

2. How is it that the A's have never gone for it all? Johnny Damon? Jermaine Dye? Ray Durham? Jose Guillen? Octavio Dotel? Those are just a few of the midseason moves I could think of...

1. With Cast as owner, I see the Reds being similar to the Cards. They will stay within a budget, unless there is an opportunity to get a difference maker. Cordero's signing suggests that. Again, Jocketty, except for one trade in 12 years, has not traded the crown jewels for rent a players. He acquires veteran talent on the cheap, and then signs them long term. So I would love that model for the Reds.


2. Seriously, those guys represent going for it all? Anyway, those were all rent a players. As discussed before, Beane's hands were tied, so I don't hold him responsible for not going for it all and acquiring long term, expensive stars.

*BaseClogger*
01-12-2008, 05:27 PM
Is Jocketty really that much better at drafting talent than Jim Bowden was? Here's an overly-general comparison of Jocketty from '96-'05 and Bowden from '93-'02:


Scott Sullivan Chris Duncan
Paul Bako Skip Schumaker
C.J. Nitkowski Brendan Ryan
Aaron Boone Adam Kennedy
Brett Tomko Brad Thompson
Jason LaRue Yadier Molina
Ray King Coco Crisp
Scott Williamson Braden Looper
Austin Kearns J.D. Drew
Adam Dunn Albert Pujols
B.J. Ryan Danny Haren
Todd Coffey Jack Wilson
Ben Broussard Rick Ankiel
Dustin Moseley Anthony Reyes
Joey Votto Daric Barton
Chris Denorfia Colby Rasmus
Jeremy Sowers (DNS) Xavier Nady (DNS)

It may also be worth keeping in mind that Jocketty had a bigger budget to work with. (Thanks, Marge.)

from the minor league board

*BaseClogger*
01-12-2008, 05:29 PM
1. With Cast as owner, I see the Reds being similar to the Cards. They will stay within a budget, unless there is an opportunity to get a difference maker. Cordero's signing suggests that. Again, Jocketty, except for one trade in 12 years, has not traded the crown jewels for rent a players. He acquires veteran talent on the cheap, and then signs them long term. So I would love that model for the Reds.


2. Seriously, those guys represent going for it all? Anyway, those were all rent a players. As discussed before, Beane's hands were tied, so I don't hold him responsible for not going for it all and acquiring long term, expensive stars.

1. Jockety never had any crown jewels to begin with.

2. Yes, you do hold Beane accountable for that!

757690
01-12-2008, 05:35 PM
1. Jockety never had any crown jewels to begin with.

2. Yes, you do hold Beane accountable for that!

1.
Braden Looper
Adam Kennedy
J.D. Drew
Daric Barton
Colby Rasmus
Rick Ankeil
Jack Wilson
Chris Duncan
Coco Crisp
Albert Pujols
Yadier Molina
Danny Haren
Skip Schumaker
Brad Thompson
Brendan Ryan
Anthony Reyes

All drafted and developed by Jocketty in 12 years.

Not the greatest list, but better than most teams.

2. I admitted I was wrong after MLBfan's post. I will admit it again. I was wrong.

I(heart)Freel
01-12-2008, 06:27 PM
Speaking of adding talent in the front office, and given the debate about whether Jocketty will help the Reds with their farm system, wouldn't it be nice to get all-business Dan O'Brien back in the fold?

On two conditions, of course. One: he's not allowed in the room during trade talk. And two: he's not allowed to speak to a member of the media, ever.

TC81190
01-12-2008, 06:50 PM
Speaking of adding talent in the front office, and given the debate about whether Jocketty will help the Reds with their farm system, wouldn't it be nice to get all-business Dan O'Brien back in the fold?

On two conditions, of course. One: he's not allowed in the room during trade talk. And two: he's not allowed to speak to a member of the media, ever.

I'd love to have Dan O' Brien, or whoever ran his drafts, back, for the sole purpose of the draft.

wlf WV
01-12-2008, 07:15 PM
I'd love to have Dan O' Brien, or whoever ran his drafts, back, for the sole purpose of the draft.
:D
Especially since we seem able to sign them now.Whatever Mr.C does in the future,I've appreciated the effort so far.

AmarilloRed
01-13-2008, 02:22 AM
Jocketty does not want to be a GM again (according to XM Radio), so I suppose that ends that possibility.

Cardinal_Fan
01-13-2008, 04:03 AM
Speaking as a Cardinals fan, most of you have in right in saying that Jockety could make you a contender, but that it would require him trading away almost all of your prospects. I mean he pulled off the Edmonds and Rolen trades for instance which worked out extremely well for us. But he also traded Coco Crisp for Will Clark, and clearly Cleveland got the best of that trade. He's a solid GM, he just has a modus operandi that tends to eliminate the talent in a team's farm system. Look at ours today!

Orenda
01-13-2008, 11:35 AM
Jocketty does not want to be a GM again (according to XM Radio), so I suppose that ends that possibility.

He might have a guy in mind though.

gedred69
01-13-2008, 05:13 PM
I don't understand the obsession with O'Brien. Maybe he made some good drafts, but only mutton-heads could blow where the Reds drafted. He issued an edict that all minor league hitters take the 1st pitch, which Votto blames for his poor showing at Potomac after his monster year at Dayton. If so, this very well could have delayed Votto's MLB debut by a year. Thus, causing the Reds to re-up on Hatteberg, instead of Votto making his MLB debut. (Props to Hatteberg, he [B]is [B] a professional hitter). But think of the consequences of having Votto here in '07. We would know so much more of the future.

I(heart)Freel
01-13-2008, 05:29 PM
I don't understand the obsession with O'Brien. Maybe he made some good drafts, but only mutton-heads could blow where the Reds drafted.

And yet... some mutton-heads have occupied that chair.

I could not have been happier when Danny O was fired, but I do think he ran a good draft. Like Jocketty, it's never a bad thing for an organization to have several smart people in the front office.

Wouldn't it be nice to know the Reds are top-notch at drafting, at developing and at acquiring major league talent? Aren't all three of those steps necessary for the years of success we all crave?

Orenda
01-13-2008, 05:59 PM
I don't understand the obsession with O'Brien. Maybe he made some good drafts, but only mutton-heads could blow where the Reds drafted. He issued an edict that all minor league hitters take the 1st pitch, which Votto blames for his poor showing at Potomac after his monster year at Dayton. If so, this very well could have delayed Votto's MLB debut by a year. Thus, causing the Reds to re-up on Hatteberg, instead of Votto making his MLB debut. (Props to Hatteberg, he [B]is [B] a professional hitter). But think of the consequences of having Votto here in '07. We would know so much more of the future.

In 04 and 05 the reds had the 7th and 12th picks, with those O'Brien grabbed Bailey and Bruce. In Krivsky's two drafts he's had the 8th and 15th pick, where they took Stubbs in 06(with Lincecum on the board) and Mesorasco in 07. Krivsky's picks still might pan out but given your definition of a "mutton-head" I would say Krivsky fits that example more than O'Brien. Also it was Krivsky's own fault for waiting so long to call up Votto. He had nothing left to prove in AAA and the Reds season was in the tank before September.

SMcGavin
01-13-2008, 06:43 PM
I don't understand the obsession with O'Brien. Maybe he made some good drafts, but only mutton-heads could blow where the Reds drafted. He issued an edict that all minor league hitters take the 1st pitch, which Votto blames for his poor showing at Potomac after his monster year at Dayton. If so, this very well could have delayed Votto's MLB debut by a year. Thus, causing the Reds to re-up on Hatteberg, instead of Votto making his MLB debut. (Props to Hatteberg, he [B]is [B] a professional hitter). But think of the consequences of having Votto here in '07. We would know so much more of the future.

Nobody is claiming O'Brien was a good GM, and the taking the first pitch thing was one of the worst ideas ever. But it's hard to deny that much of the Reds' current bright-looking future is due to O'Brien's excellent drafts.

AmarilloRed
01-13-2008, 07:32 PM
Here are Jocketty's exact comments:



Guest: Walt Jocketty, Cincinnati Reds Special Advisor
Show: The Show with Rob Dibble and Kevin Kennedy

“The General Manager’s job is very tough, and that’s why I told Mr. Castellini, and I’ve told other people this too, that I don’t want to be a GM again. It’s a very tough position, and that’s why Wayne (Krivsky) has got the job of General Manager. He’ll be very good at that and has done a good job. The day to day operation of a Major League club is a 24/7/365 day a year job and a lot of things come at you all the time. In St. Louis I had a good relationship with Bill DeWitt (Sr. VP) and I had a very good relationship with Tony (La Russa, Manager) and that’s what it takes, a good communication and relationship and right now my role with Cincinnati will be to advise Bob Castellini (President and CEO) about different things, help Wayne (Krivsky, Executive VP & GM) with my years of experience and hopefully with my expertise to try and get the Cincinnati Reds to the World Series as soon as possible.” - Walt Jocketty on his new job with the Reds

Posted by Jordan Greenberg at 6:59 P

http://mlbonxm.blogspot.com/2008/01/walt-jocketty-cincinnati-reds.html