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WVRed
01-12-2008, 12:48 AM
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2008/01/chad-on-mike-mike-let-me-go.asp


Chad Johnson's efforts to manufacture a trade from the Bengals hit full stride today when he took his complaints with the Bengals national on the Mike & Mike radio show on ESPN.

"I was labeled selfish and a cancer, and it hurt," he said. "Fingers were pointed at me this year. If the team and the organization wants to further itself (make the playoffs), I think you need to get rid of the problem.

"It hurt me. To do me that way and not to have my back. Things were said, and nobody came to my defense."

Also, Mike Zimmer is the leading candidate to replace Bresnahan. He does have experience in the 3-4 and the Bengals are looking to go that direction.

WMR
01-12-2008, 01:05 AM
Crybaby.

guttle11
01-12-2008, 01:09 AM
He's definitely pandering/whining, but he does have a point. He's not the real problem on that team, just the scapegoat.

WMR
01-12-2008, 01:12 AM
I saw the interview. It had Drew Rosenthal's slimy fingerprints all over it.

They also played a clip of Carson talking about how Chad wants a new contract. What the hell?!?! He just signed a lucrative, long-term extension!

WMR
01-12-2008, 01:19 AM
BTW: Mike and Mike are so lame. They've never met a softball question they didn't lob right over the plate. They were also shilling "The Roast of Mike and Mike," where ESPN employees and sports figures would "roast" them. Who would honestly care about seeing those two roasted??? Best way to roast them: Tell them how much their show sucks.

Cedric
01-12-2008, 01:25 AM
Crybaby.

Yeah right. Chad has been bashed all year by "fans" and media. There are about 50 players on this squad that deserve blame before Chad and yet he gets all of the blame. I don't blame him for speaking up.

Too many people that follow football these days have little knowledge of the game. I've got tickets in the end zone and I'm about to let them go. It's amazing how quick people are willing to turn on players like Chad when things get rough. Fans should be willing to stick behind Chad when things are rough and not dog him when the rest of the team fails.

It's the same sad story in Cincinnati. Fans in this city continue to bash the best players and ruin the best sports figures we have in the name of "hustle" and "attitude". Cincinnati sports fans are still in the Pete Rose mindset for players and it shows with the way Griffey and Chad Johnson have been treated at times in Cincy. Talents like this don't come along often and instead of being supported they are trashed at any sign of failure from the team. Same ol Cincy.




















.

WMR
01-12-2008, 01:29 AM
When you act like an ass after scoring a touchdown while your TEAM is completely out of the playoff picture, expect some flack to come your way.

Completely forgotten about his hissy fit during the playoff loss to the Steelers?

It's called acting like a professional.

Teams adopt the mindset of their best players. Look no further than Indianapolis or New England.

Cedric
01-12-2008, 02:32 AM
When you act like an ass after scoring a touchdown while your TEAM is completely out of the playoff picture, expect some flack to come your way.

Completely forgotten about his hissy fit during the playoff loss to the Steelers?

It's called acting like a professional.

Teams adopt the mindset of their best players. Look no further than Indianapolis or New England.

His last touchdown before Miami was against Tennessee in week 12. His next td was in week 17 when he scored three touchdowns and didn't celebrate. So when again did he celebrate when his team was "completely" out of the playoffs? I guess he was supposed to quit having fun because the team had seven losses. It's comments like this that make no sense. People expect Chad to have fun and show passion when things are going perfect. If things aren't going perfect he is just being a showboat and wanting attention.

Hissy fit against the Steelers? TJ said that he was more vocal than Chad during that halftime and Chad was just getting heat because of his popularity.

Chad isn't perfect by any means, but he isn't deserving of of the crap he takes. If you want to blame anyone on this team you should blame the defense and the whole Oline. Hell, Carson is more to blame than Chad.

Belichick traded for Randy Moss and Corey Dillon, I doubt he cares about all the stuff whiny WLW fans and the media talk about. If you are expecting a WR to be a team leader you are sorely mistaken, it's not his job. His job is to produce and he does a damn good job of doing that.

Highlifeman21
01-12-2008, 02:38 AM
BTW: Mike and Mike are so lame. They've never met a softball question they didn't lob right over the plate. They were also shilling "The Roast of Mike and Mike," where ESPN employees and sports figures would "roast" them. Who would honestly care about seeing those two roasted??? Best way to roast them: Tell them how much their show sucks.

Both Mikes are two of the genuinely nicer guys I've ever met in any capacities. One I met at a golf tourney (Golic), the other I ran into @ Stew Leonards (Greeny). Both were very engaging and seemed eager to engage with a fan of their show. Had a good, yet brief conversation with each of them.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I wish I could have gotten to AC this weekend to watch the both of them roasted. They're 8 years into a "gimmick" most thought wouldn't last. I guess they must be doing something right.

WMR
01-12-2008, 02:43 AM
They might be the greatest guys in the world; that's great.

I just like good radio; they're the antithesis of that.

Ever heard Scott Ferrall? THAT'S what sports radio should sound like.

Patrick Bateman
01-12-2008, 02:48 AM
I listened to Mike and Mike once and I wanted to put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger. Luckily for me, no gun was around, so I just turned off the radio.

WMR
01-12-2008, 02:50 AM
You ever heard Scott Ferrall, AK?

He is a HUGE hockey guy. He's done Hockey Night in Canada and several other Canadian shows as well.

He's currently on Howard 101 on Sirius Satellite Radio. His show is a trip.

Highlifeman21
01-12-2008, 02:51 AM
They might be the greatest guys in the world; that's great.

I just like good radio; they're the antithesis of that.

Ever heard Scott Ferrall? THAT'S what sports radio should sound like.

I know a Scott Farrell that works for US Bank, but I can't say that I've ever heard your chap. Apparently he does radio?

Anywho, for my money, Mike & Mike get it right. They aren't the best, but they certainly aren't the worst. All I know, is if I'm getting up when I don't need to get up @ 6 to catch their show, they've got to be doing something right. I consider it an acomplishment when I can catch all 4 hours of their show a day.

Unfortuntely, in Hartford I'm stuck with ESPN, or 660 AM out of NYC, and I can't stand NYC agendas. Which would you pick?

WMR
01-12-2008, 02:52 AM
I would spring for Sirius Satellite Radio. ;)

WMR
01-12-2008, 02:53 AM
Here you go, HLman: www.scottferrall.com

guttle11
01-12-2008, 02:53 AM
Both Mikes are two of the genuinely nicer guys I've ever met in any capacities. One I met at a golf tourney (Golic), the other I ran into @ Stew Leonards (Greeny). Both were very engaging and seemed eager to engage with a fan of their show. Had a good, yet brief conversation with each of them.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I wish I could have gotten to AC this weekend to watch the both of them roasted. They're 8 years into a "gimmick" most thought wouldn't last. I guess they must be doing something right.

I agree (I haven't met them, but I haven't heard a bad thing about either).

They're a lot like Cowherd in a sense. Once I began viewing them for what they are instead of looking for hardcore "Xs and Os" talk, I liked them. They're off the wall, ridiculous, and goofy, but I like it. It's not meant to be taken seriously.

As far as softball questions...it's ESPN. They still haven't openly mentioned the new Reggie Bush book. Here's a dozen of the same Clemens, Vick, and Patriots segments just done by a different reporter...run along children.

mole44
01-12-2008, 03:51 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/inspecta/ochocincooa4.jpg

bucksfan2
01-12-2008, 09:18 AM
Yeah right. Chad has been bashed all year by "fans" and media. There are about 50 players on this squad that deserve blame before Chad and yet he gets all of the blame. I don't blame him for speaking up.

Too many people that follow football these days have little knowledge of the game. I've got tickets in the end zone and I'm about to let them go. It's amazing how quick people are willing to turn on players like Chad when things get rough. Fans should be willing to stick behind Chad when things are rough and not dog him when the rest of the team fails.

It's the same sad story in Cincinnati. Fans in this city continue to bash the best players and ruin the best sports figures we have in the name of "hustle" and "attitude". Cincinnati sports fans are still in the Pete Rose mindset for players and it shows with the way Griffey and Chad Johnson have been treated at times in Cincy. Talents like this don't come along often and instead of being supported they are trashed at any sign of failure from the team. Same ol Cincy.


Football fans are the worst. They just turn on their players at the drop of a hat over something they probably don't understand in the first place. I went to or watched just about every game this season and Chad was not the problem. If there is a long list of problems Chad and his antics are near the bottom. The problem this season was letting Damon Huard, SF's QB, and JP Losman beat them. The problem was Rudi not running like he used to. The problem was Willie being out most of the season. The problem was stagnant play calling or Carson throwing 3 pick 6's to the same CB in one game (one got called back but shouldn't have).

Look at the teams who have had great WR's and let them go. The Vikings, Niners, and Eagles. You don't replace a top notch WR. Ask the Lions how easy it is to draft a top WR. Instead of complaining about what Chad does be grateful that you have a WR of his caliber and go out and fix the other parts of the team.

Dom Heffner
01-12-2008, 09:26 AM
You don't make your team better by trading your best player. You make somebody else's better.

I'd sit him down and tell him to shut up and honor the deal he signed or he can spend his best years watching General Hospital reruns on Sundays. And then show him how it all worked out for Carl Pickens with the Titans.

It gets old having the horses tell the stagecoach driver where to go.

The fans are a bit harsh on Chad, but sometimes this year he looked lost out there. And he really needs to work on yards after the catch. He jumps in the air for every ball thrown his way, whether its square in the numbers or knee high, and it cause him to get tackled right away.

Yachtzee
01-12-2008, 10:09 AM
I don't expect Chad to be a leader for this team. I think the Bengals have a Head Coach and a star QB and a veteran offensive lineman who has been with this team a long time who need to step up and handle this situation. Obviously Chad is still feeling hurt about how he was treated in the media this season. If Chad is unhappy about the way he's being treated, then team leaders need to sit down with him, tell him not to worry about all that outside BS, and just do what he does best, catch the football, and everything will be all right. They need to do this now before Chad turns into Carl Pickens or Corey Dillon.

GoReds33
01-12-2008, 10:37 AM
Chad needs to shut his mouth. I knew two years ago when I first learned Rosenhaus was his agent that something would happen. Everybody's happy until things don't go so well. Just shut your mouth and play football.

I just have the thought of Chad going to the Patriots, and setting every record imaginable. He has all the talent in the world, but until he shuts up, his play won't match his talent.

Yachtzee
01-12-2008, 11:23 AM
Chad needs to shut his mouth. I knew two years ago when I first learned Rosenhaus was his agent that something would happen. Everybody's happy until things don't go so well. Just shut your mouth and play football.

I just have the thought of Chad going to the Patriots, and setting every record imaginable. He has all the talent in the world, but until he shuts up, his play won't match his talent.

And why would he do that? Because the Patriots organization does what it needs to make sure players understand what its goals are and what they need to do to achieve those goals. The Bengals are in the situation they are because team leadership doesn't effectively communicate with its players, so players are left to listening to what their agents and the media are telling them.

I never blamed the Bengals for guys like Pickens and Dillon because they were malcontents from the get-go. But when Chad Johnson came in, he always said the right things and did the work that indicated he was here for the Cincinnati Bengals. The fact he's now thinking about jumping ship is just another indication to me that Chad Johnson isn't a cancer, the cancer is in the front office.

Boss-Hog
01-12-2008, 11:26 AM
I never blamed the Bengals for guys like Pickens and Dillon because they were malcontents from the get-go.

I'm no fan of his, but Dillon seemed to fit in just fine in New England. Personally, I think the losing has more to do with our better players (Pickens, Dillon, Spikes and now Chad) eventually wanting out than anything. Pickens may be the exception to that, but the others were didn't cause problems until the losing became so overwhelming.

WVRed
01-12-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm no fan of his, but Dillon seemed to fit in just fine in New England. Personally, I think the losing has more to do with our better players (Pickens, Dillon, Spikes and now Chad) eventually wanting out than anything. Pickens may be the exception to that, but the others were didn't cause problems until the losing became so overwhelming.

I think in Chad's case it is the media. The teams have more the most part since Marvin has been in here in the hunt for the playoffs, so you really can't pin it all on losing.

Chad's antics were pretty much fun and games at first, but when the team is struggling to win games and you are celebrating TD's, sometimes the best thing to do is just play ball and leave the celebrations at home.

Is it possible that Cincinnati has the worst media market for crucifying players?

bucksfan2
01-12-2008, 11:49 AM
I'm no fan of his, but Dillon seemed to fit in just fine in New England. Personally, I think the losing has more to do with our better players (Pickens, Dillon, Spikes and now Chad) eventually wanting out than anything. Pickens may be the exception to that, but the others were didn't cause problems until the losing became so overwhelming.

You never see malcontents on the team that is hoisting the super bowl trophy. You win and people are happy, lose and you better be pissed. The only malcontent I can remember from a winning team is TO and we don't want to go there.

Patrick Bateman
01-12-2008, 02:40 PM
WMR: Never heard of Farrell

Matt700wlw
01-12-2008, 02:41 PM
I wish I could be as miserable as Chad Johnson

Matt700wlw
01-12-2008, 02:42 PM
Is it possible that Cincinnati has the worst media market for crucifying players?

He should go to NY or Boston or Philly....he'll realize how soft this town's media really is.

jimbo
01-12-2008, 02:49 PM
Is it possible that Cincinnati has the worst media market for crucifying players?

Good point, but I think a lot of it is driven by the fanbase. The media is only giving them what they want.

Bip Roberts
01-12-2008, 07:26 PM
Cincinnati media is the worst for making stuff up just to try to get readers, then when it comes out they say "thats just what i heard"

CrackerJack
01-12-2008, 08:11 PM
Football fans are the worst. They just turn on their players at the drop of a hat over something they probably don't understand in the first place. I went to or watched just about every game this season and Chad was not the problem. If there is a long list of problems Chad and his antics are near the bottom. The problem this season was letting Damon Huard, SF's QB, and JP Losman beat them. The problem was Rudi not running like he used to. The problem was Willie being out most of the season. The problem was stagnant play calling or Carson throwing 3 pick 6's to the same CB in one game (one got called back but shouldn't have).

Look at the teams who have had great WR's and let them go. The Vikings, Niners, and Eagles. You don't replace a top notch WR. Ask the Lions how easy it is to draft a top WR. Instead of complaining about what Chad does be grateful that you have a WR of his caliber and go out and fix the other parts of the team.

I can think of at least 3 late game drops by Chad on 3rd down this past season that may very well have cost them games (Buffalo being the most memorable).

To say that Chad deserves "no" blame is also incorrect.

But of course he tends to attract the most attention to himself, probably more so than anyone else in the entire NFL. It gets old.

RFS62
01-12-2008, 08:53 PM
http://volcanocom.com/redskelton-gallerycom/ushop/images/IT71_CVisioneerDocumentsSadWhtFCln.jpg

Redsfaithful
01-13-2008, 01:36 AM
http://volcanocom.com/redskelton-gallerycom/ushop/images/IT71_CVisioneerDocumentsSadWhtFCln.jpg

Keep grinding that axe.

GAC
01-13-2008, 06:02 AM
Are we talking about Chad again? :lol:

Chad Johnson may be a problem; but he's not the problem. It's a culmination of several things IMO. Many of which have been sighted throughout the course of this season (i.e. defense, injuries, lack of discipline). So there is no need to rehash all of that.

When I hear Lewis, as well as some of the players, talking publically about selfishness, and they define that selfishness as guys complaining about their playing time, not getting the ball enough, or not getting paid what they think (contracts) - and these are all things that the above have alluded to and it has come out during the course of this past season - then where there is smoke there is fire. You can't simply shrug your shoulders and blow it off when the head coach and various players have stated such.

And from what I've seen (and heard), every time these things have come out and names are never mentioned, for the most part, it's mostly Chad who feels he has to have a press conference or go to the media and counter or address these "accusations" as if he feels they are directly aimed at him. Guilty conscience, or just over-reacting and paranoid? There has been one exception I remember when TJ also came out and made a statement after one of Lewis' press interviews. But for the most part it has been Chad. And then again, maybe it's the media going after Chad to see how he'll react. Either way, Chad still doesn't do well with his mouth.

But going on ESPN's Mike and Mike, regardless of what people may think of them and their show, and then Johnson airing his complaints about the Bengals, and IMO, appearing AGAIN to try and garner sympathy and get people to feel sorry for him, just further exasperates the situation. It really serves no good IMO.

The guy is a talent. No denying that. But he is also emotionally high strung. And IMO he wears those emotions on his sleeve. He's his own worst enemy as far as I'm concerned.

Set aside and separate the elaborate and planned TD celebrations and various other attention-getting antics he has done (the haircut, Ocho Cinco Jacket, etc). Fans say he's just having fun and being entertaining. Fine. You still just can't explain away the various situations that have occurred between Johnson and the head coach, coaching staff, and Palmer, beginning with that halftime display vs the Steelers a couple years ago, and the various on-field and sideline altercations that have occurred since when they are seen on camera.

They could trade CJ tomorrow and the problems the Bengals incurred this past season aren't going to go away. Again - he may not be the root cause; but he does seem to exasperate them. I'm sorry, but I don't think the guy's personality allows him to be a team player.

RFS62
01-13-2008, 08:43 AM
Keep grinding that axe.



It's not really an axe. I'm pretty much indifferent about him. I just find it funny how so many people are willing to take up for his behavior.

Yeah, he's a tremendous talent. Never denied that.

He's also the poster boy for the "it's all about me" segment of today's NFL. I don't think he's very funny, frankly. Maybe if his writers would come up with a better routine, I'd laugh.

GAC
01-13-2008, 09:18 AM
It's not really an axe.

It's not like, in certain situations, he hasn't axed for it. :p:

Yachtzee
01-13-2008, 10:00 AM
I don't know. I've always felt Chad was more of a team guy than some sectors of the media like to portray him. This season has been very out of character for him. I just get the feeling that this whole business has been because Rosenhaus has been in Chad's ear all year long, playing off Chad's own insecurities so that he can get a trade and a new deal. I'm inclined to fault Bengals' management for not recognizing that Chad is susceptible to taking media criticism to heart and making sure he knows where he stands with the organization.

Personally, I think if Chad had people in his corner thinking of his best interests, they'd be telling him to forget what the media says and go out there and do his best. If he does that and the Bengals still stink, he could likely ask for a trade. Not only would he be more sympathetic, but his cap hit would be less and he would be easier to trade. My question is, does Rosenhaus make any money from Chad's current deal? I remember Chad had signed a deal before Rosenhaus came on board, so maybe this is a way for Rosenhaus to try and wrangle something so that he can start making money off Chad's contract rather than just his endorsements alone.

WMR
01-13-2008, 10:24 AM
I believe Rosensnake negotiated Chad's current deal, Yacht.

I imagine him pouring poison into Chad's ear on a steady basis.

Yachtzee
01-13-2008, 10:34 AM
I believe Rosensnake negotiated Chad's current deal, Yacht.

I imagine him pouring poison into Chad's ear on a steady basis.

Could be. I wasn't sure if Rosenhaus had gotten an extension or not. I just remember that he came on board right after Chad had negotiated a new contract, such that Chad had originally said he'd be primarily focusing on Chad's endorsement deals.

I imagine Rosenhaus probably feels he need to get his clients a new deal every few years, regardless of the length of the current contract. I've never really been a fan of the way the NFL handles contracts, because I feel it encourages agents to counsel their clients to make asses out of themselves in order to engineer a new deal or a trade. Why? Because all the money from the contract is in that signing bonus they get up front. Once they get that money, there isn't always the incentive to play out a non-guaranteed contract. Without guaranteed contracts, nobody seems to take them seriously. Maybe if a guy knew he was stuck with his team until his contract runs out, he wouldn't be so quick to trash his team in the media as a means of getting out of town.

Bip Roberts
01-13-2008, 10:52 AM
Im pretty sure Rosenhaus wasnt chads agent when he signed his extension

Boss-Hog
01-13-2008, 11:25 AM
Im pretty sure Rosenhaus wasnt chads agent when he signed his extension
He was for the most recent extension that he signed.

Bip Roberts
01-13-2008, 01:58 PM
He was for the most recent extension that he signed.

when was this one?

Redsfaithful
01-13-2008, 04:44 PM
It's not really an axe. I'm pretty much indifferent about him. I just find it funny how so many people are willing to take up for his behavior.

Yeah, he's a tremendous talent. Never denied that.

He's also the poster boy for the "it's all about me" segment of today's NFL. I don't think he's very funny, frankly. Maybe if his writers would come up with a better routine, I'd laugh.

It just drives me crazy that anyone thinks he's the problem with the Bengals.

You are always going to have huge egos on a professional sports team. It's the job of management to keep it in check and to put together a team that meshes. TO and Randy Moss have both been labeled far bigger cancers than Chad Johnson, and they both play for winning football teams now.

Chad produces, and that's all I really care about and all that really matters. I have no idea who actually has a problem with him in the Bengals locker room or front office, but odds are the guys who don't like him aren't half as good at their jobs as Chad is at his.

redsfanmia
01-13-2008, 07:07 PM
[QUOTE=WilyMoROCKS;1533379

Ever heard Scott Ferrall? THAT'S what sports radio should sound like.[/QUOTE]

How can you stand to listen to that froggy voiced hack for more than 2 minutes is beyond me. Mike and Mike are fun and are ok for 15 or 20 minutes at a time. I prefer Colin Cowherd to M&M though.

Bip Roberts
01-13-2008, 08:37 PM
Cowherd is a mongo, he went on for days about how Jacoby ellbury would be an all star in the NL but cant even get on the field in the AL.

GAC
01-13-2008, 09:34 PM
It just drives me crazy that anyone thinks he's the problem with the Bengals.

As I stated before - many feel he is a problem. Not the problem. There is a difference.


You are always going to have huge egos on a professional sports team. It's the job of management to keep it in check and to put together a team that meshes.

How do you do that (keep it in check)? That seems like an impossible task with these types of guy (personalities). No matter how much you do, it's never enough. They are like spoiled children who need to be placated? Why should that responsibility be put on the FO or coaching staff, regardless of who it is, to somehow find a way to keep that selfish, me-first player happy? Again - it's not about the endzone celebrations or attention getting antics some define as having fun and being entertaining; but when an obviously high-strung and emotional player, when things aren't going his way or the team is losing, is having confrontations with other players and the coaching staff in the locker room and on the sidelines.

No one is going to convince me that those latter items aren't a problem, and can prove to be a distraction for a team. It was with T.O., Moss, and Keyshawn - but it's somehow different with Chad?


TO and Randy Moss have both been labeled far bigger cancers than Chad Johnson, and they both play for winning football teams now.

Cancer is cancer. But Chad, in the past, has bragged about these guys, as well as his cuz, and wanting to emulate them. All talented guys and solid receivers. But not team players IMO. And that is evident by the fact they kept moving from team to team due to their me-first personalities.

cincrazy
01-13-2008, 09:35 PM
Yeah right. Chad has been bashed all year by "fans" and media. There are about 50 players on this squad that deserve blame before Chad and yet he gets all of the blame. I don't blame him for speaking up.

Too many people that follow football these days have little knowledge of the game. I've got tickets in the end zone and I'm about to let them go. It's amazing how quick people are willing to turn on players like Chad when things get rough. Fans should be willing to stick behind Chad when things are rough and not dog him when the rest of the team fails.

It's the same sad story in Cincinnati. Fans in this city continue to bash the best players and ruin the best sports figures we have in the name of "hustle" and "attitude". Cincinnati sports fans are still in the Pete Rose mindset for players and it shows with the way Griffey and Chad Johnson have been treated at times in Cincy. Talents like this don't come along often and instead of being supported they are trashed at any sign of failure from the team. Same ol Cincy.




















.

Amen

cincrazy
01-13-2008, 09:37 PM
When you act like an ass after scoring a touchdown while your TEAM is completely out of the playoff picture, expect some flack to come your way.

Completely forgotten about his hissy fit during the playoff loss to the Steelers?

It's called acting like a professional.

Teams adopt the mindset of their best players. Look no further than Indianapolis or New England.

The Bengals problems run way deeper than Chad Johnson. Our best player isn't the reason we can't get to the playoffs. We have no character, no discipline, nothing. Yes, some of that falls on Chad, but most of it falls on the coaching staff, and people like Odell Thurman and Chris Henry, etc. etc. The Bengals are a sick, sick franchise, in need of a major exorcism

Boss-Hog
01-13-2008, 10:24 PM
when was this one?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2415464

Cedric
01-14-2008, 12:42 AM
Are we talking about Chad again? :lol:

Chad Johnson may be a problem; but he's not the problem. It's a culmination of several things IMO. Many of which have been sighted throughout the course of this season (i.e. defense, injuries, lack of discipline). So there is no need to rehash all of that.

When I hear Lewis, as well as some of the players, talking publically about selfishness, and they define that selfishness as guys complaining about their playing time, not getting the ball enough, or not getting paid what they think (contracts) - and these are all things that the above have alluded to and it has come out during the course of this past season - then where there is smoke there is fire. You can't simply shrug your shoulders and blow it off when the head coach and various players have stated such.

And from what I've seen (and heard), every time these things have come out and names are never mentioned, for the most part, it's mostly Chad who feels he has to have a press conference or go to the media and counter or address these "accusations" as if he feels they are directly aimed at him. Guilty conscience, or just over-reacting and paranoid? There has been one exception I remember when TJ also came out and made a statement after one of Lewis' press interviews. But for the most part it has been Chad. And then again, maybe it's the media going after Chad to see how he'll react. Either way, Chad still doesn't do well with his mouth.

But going on ESPN's Mike and Mike, regardless of what people may think of them and their show, and then Johnson airing his complaints about the Bengals, and IMO, appearing AGAIN to try and garner sympathy and get people to feel sorry for him, just further exasperates the situation. It really serves no good IMO.

The guy is a talent. No denying that. But he is also emotionally high strung. And IMO he wears those emotions on his sleeve. He's his own worst enemy as far as I'm concerned.

Set aside and separate the elaborate and planned TD celebrations and various other attention-getting antics he has done (the haircut, Ocho Cinco Jacket, etc). Fans say he's just having fun and being entertaining. Fine. You still just can't explain away the various situations that have occurred between Johnson and the head coach, coaching staff, and Palmer, beginning with that halftime display vs the Steelers a couple years ago, and the various on-field and sideline altercations that have occurred since when they are seen on camera.

They could trade CJ tomorrow and the problems the Bengals incurred this past season aren't going to go away. Again - he may not be the root cause; but he does seem to exasperate them. I'm sorry, but I don't think the guy's personality allows him to be a team player.

You mean the usual interview where Marvin is a arrogant jerk to the media? The guy is finally getting heat and he can't accept this junk of a team is his fault. Now he is mouthing about not enough scouts and blaming Chad.

If I was Chad I would be screaming to get out of this organization also. I think Chad, TJ, and Carson have a passion to win that just isn't there from most of the team and clearly the organization. You read about the lack of work ethic from certain players and that is WAY more of a problem than Chad Johnson. Everyone knows that Chad works at his craft like Jerry Rice did.

Carson Palmer basically asked for new people to run this team and yet Chad Johnson is the problem? Laughable. Read the article on Bengals.com from Mike Brown and tell me that Chad Johnson is the problem. Mike Brown literally brags about being mediocre. It's exactly the reason the Bengals will never succeed for any extended period.

Redsfaithful
01-14-2008, 01:41 AM
And that is evident by the fact they kept moving from team to team due to their me-first personalities.

Moss and TO were both playing this weekend, which to me says it all.

Javy Pornstache
01-14-2008, 02:22 AM
You mean the usual interview where Marvin is a arrogant jerk to the media? The guy is finally getting heat and he can't accept this junk of a team is his fault. Now he is mouthing about not enough scouts and blaming Chad.

If I was Chad I would be screaming to get out of this organization also. I think Chad, TJ, and Carson have a passion to win that just isn't there from most of the team and clearly the organization. You read about the lack of work ethic from certain players and that is WAY more of a problem than Chad Johnson. Everyone knows that Chad works at his craft like Jerry Rice did.

Carson Palmer basically asked for new people to run this team and yet Chad Johnson is the problem? Laughable. Read the article on Bengals.com from Mike Brown and tell me that Chad Johnson is the problem. Mike Brown literally brags about being mediocre. It's exactly the reason the Bengals will never succeed for any extended period.

The most correct post of this thread.

sonny
01-14-2008, 02:27 AM
I interpret this as Chad wants out. Period.

He wants to play for a perennial winner, and the Bengals will never be that team (unless Mike finally realizes he should have no part in anything football related).

Of course, Marvin and Chad will probably just say it was just a misunderstanding and that the media took it out of context, and the Bengals will be back to their happy mediocrity.

WMR
01-14-2008, 02:42 AM
If I was Chad I would be screaming to get out of this organization also.

Have you ever owned your own business? A business with employees? Judging by that response I would guess not.

The sentiment you express is exactly what's wrong with professional sports--and much of America--today.

Redhook
01-14-2008, 08:36 AM
Read the article on Bengals.com from Mike Brown and tell me that Chad Johnson is the problem. Mike Brown literally brags about being mediocre. It's exactly the reason the Bengals will never succeed for any extended period.

Exactly.

Reading that article irritated me....again with Mike Brown. I can't stand him. He has been the one consistent problem with the Bengals. What a stupid, stubborn, selfish buffoon.

IMO, it'll be very tough for the Bengals to win until Mike Brown ceases to be around the Bengals. In the mean time, I truely believe Marvin will be gone soon and hopefully a tougher head coach will come in to control the asylum.

GAC
01-14-2008, 09:20 AM
Moss and TO were both playing this weekend, which to me says it all.

So? And have you listened to either one of these guys when they have publically spoken this past season? Which hasn't been much by the way. They've both taken a pretty low profile position. I'm still not a big fan of T.O., but I do hear both of these guys talking with a lot more humility and that it's not about them, but the team. Now maybe they're both lying; but it's at least a lot better then some of the antics we were accustomed to seeing from them in the past. I know Belichick as a coach, and the philosophy he strongly teaches, I guarantee you he wouldn't have accepted or tolerated Moss on his team unless he was willing to amend his ways and buy into their team philosophy. So maybe these two have finally learned something along the way.

Chip R
01-14-2008, 09:26 AM
So? We haven't really heard anything out of them either have we since they gone to these new homes? Have they proven to be distractions/cancers on their current teams when that was the case prior? No. I know Belichick wouldn't tolerate it. No way he'd allow a me-first, showboating player on his team unless that player was able to correct his ways and adapt to their program. Obviously Moss and T.O may have learned something along the way. ;)


Yeah, didn't hear a peep out of T.O. in 2006 - if you don't count the whole hamstring problem and the time he allegedly tried to kill himself.

GAC
01-14-2008, 09:42 AM
Yeah, didn't hear a peep out of T.O. in 2006 - if you don't count the whole hamstring problem and the time he allegedly tried to kill himself.

As much as I really don't care for the guy, I have always refuted the report that he tried to kill himself. If, as reported, the guy tried to commit suicide because he was depressed - that's not something that comes on as a one time episode, all of a sudden disappears, and then, all on your own without any outside help from anyone, you're all better. Not if you're struggling with depression.

And even if it was true Chip - that is not the same IMO as one who is a distraction, creating problems, and having confrontations inside that clubhouse, and on the sidelines, with the head coach, and other team members. I have not heard one report from any player on the Cowboys, the coaching staff, or even the Dallas media where T.O. has created the same type of problems he had a history of doing so with previous teams.

Have you even heard a peep out of this guy at all this year, as compared to the T.O. of the past we all love so dearly? ;)

And how about Randy Moss also with the Patriots?

CrackerJack
01-14-2008, 10:05 AM
Exactly.

Reading that article irritated me....again with Mike Brown. I can't stand him. He has been the one consistent problem with the Bengals. What a stupid, stubborn, selfish buffoon.

IMO, it'll be very tough for the Bengals to win until Mike Brown ceases to be around the Bengals. In the mean time, I truely believe Marvin will be gone soon and hopefully a tougher head coach will come in to control the asylum.

Yeah I've pretty much given up for good at this point, it's just not going to change here, and the Bengals' are never going to be a consistent winner.

I find them less interesting every year and really don't even care so much about them any longer, despite being a lifelong fan who's attended many games since the 80's.

It really wouldn't bother me much at all if this city didn't have an NFL team. So, I don't support them, I don't buy the silly striped merchandise, and I certainly won't be going to games (and haven't since '06).

It's too bad there aren't 80,000 others who feel this way.

Nothing other than an empty stadium will send a message to Emperor Brown. But, people still keep going, thinking things are going to change. Others go because they want to be "seen" or get out of the house since there's not much else to do in this town I guess.

It'll be fun to see the spin and the hype when the Bengals' do absolutely nothing again this off-season other than re-sign their own dregs and draft a bunch of mediocre players per the norm, everyone will spin it, try and justify it, they'll hold on to those PSL's, they'll stink again next year, and the cycle will repeat ad nauseum as it has 16 of the last 17 years.

Chip R
01-14-2008, 10:12 AM
As much as I really don't care for the guy, I have always refuted the report that he tried to kill himself. If, as reported, the guy tried to commit suicide because he was depressed - that's not something that comes on as a one time episode, all of a sudden disappears, and then, all on your own without any outside help from anyone, you're all better. Not if you're struggling with depression.

And even if it was true Chip - that is not the same IMO as one who is a distraction, creating problems, and having confrontations inside that clubhouse, and on the sidelines, with the head coach, and other team members. I have not heard one report from any player on the Cowboys, the coaching staff, or even the Dallas media where T.O. has created the same type of problems he had a history of doing so with previous teams.


You don't think that whole suicide deal plus his training camp shenanigans weren't a distraction and what Chad Johnson does is? :confused:

GAC
01-14-2008, 10:15 AM
You mean the usual interview where Marvin is a arrogant jerk to the media? The guy is finally getting heat and he can't accept this junk of a team is his fault. Now he is mouthing about not enough scouts and blaming Chad.

As the head coach Marvin should get the heat. Marvin has issues on this team that he, as the head coach, needs to address. No argument there. But it was also Marvin Lewis who came into this organization, cleaned house, and brought some respectability back to this franchise. And he got credit, from the fans and the media, for identifying those and correcting them.

He needs to do it again. And if he can't then he'll be replaced.

I just find it funny that Marvin should be called out for being an arrogant jerk to the media; but when it comes to CJ's antics, emotional outbursts, and confrontational attitude, which IMO includes being a jerk at times, those are to be tolerated, ignored, and somehow justified.

Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown may be problems too. But that still doesn't justify Chad's antics and behavior IMO.


You read about the lack of work ethic from certain players and that is WAY more of a problem than Chad Johnson. Everyone knows that Chad works at his craft like Jerry Rice did.

No one who has been critical of Chad has ever denied his work ethic or his immense talent. So because he does these things people are to ignore the other? That somehow justifies them?

Ok. So he's an immensely talented, workaholic, who also happens to be a selfish jerk. :lol:

So.... It's the guy's passion that drives him to go after his QB and head coach on those sidelines, cause confrontations and stir things up on occasion in that clubhouse, or also say controversial things that are hurtful to this franchise and the other players through the media.... because he's the only one who really cares about winning, and the rest of these bozos just don't get it?

Chad Johnson... a true starving, and yet misunderstood, artist. This team not only doesn't recognize his true talent, his passion, but also doesn't deserve him. He's so misunderstood.

Not buying it.

Would you be willing to say those very same things about other talented players around the league who have been singled out as jerks and grade A selfish players who are only concerned about themselves.... yet immensely talented. ;)

GAC
01-14-2008, 10:17 AM
You don't think that whole suicide deal plus his training camp shenanigans weren't a distraction and what Chad Johnson does is? :confused:

Ok. They were. Now explain again how that somehow justifies Chad's behavior? :lol:

Chip R
01-14-2008, 10:26 AM
Ok. They were. Now explain again how that somehow justifies Chad's behavior? :lol:


You're the one that thinks his behavior needs to be justified, not me.

WMR
01-14-2008, 08:49 PM
Not sure if I would or not...

High or low?

Would that change whether or not you'd do it? How high would the pick have to be if you WOULD be willing to do it?

GAC
01-14-2008, 08:50 PM
You're the one that thinks his behavior needs to be justified, not me.

Who are you referring to? CJ or T.O.? I've lost track. :lol:

Because as far as I'm concerned, they're both two pees in a pod.

Look - I've already acknowledged previously that T.O. and Moss' behavioral history is nothing to brag about, and pretty sad. To me that is not really the issue at all, and has nothing to do with Chad Johnson.

The statement was made that they were playing in the post-season last weekend, and that is all that matters.

And I was simply illustrating that this year, regardless of their previous conduct, which we all would agree was deplorable, you haven't heard a peep out of either of these two guys. And even when they have given interviews they've been pretty tame.

But irregardless Chip - I just find it hilarious that Bengal fans have had no problem whatsoever, in the past, bringing to everyone attention players from around the league, and in sports in general, who have shown to be self-serving jerks. But when it's one of their very own they find ways to justify and excuse it.

Highlifeman21
01-14-2008, 08:51 PM
Absolutely not.

TC81190
01-14-2008, 08:52 PM
Absolutely not.

Degenerate39
01-14-2008, 09:18 PM
Absolutely not.

GoReds33
01-14-2008, 09:27 PM
Absolutely not.... just following the trend.

Chip R
01-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Who in their right mind would think that Chad would fetch a #1 pick when Randy Moss only could bring a 3rd or 4th rounder?

WMR
01-14-2008, 09:39 PM
Didn't Chris Chambers net a #2 pick? I know it was a mid-season trade and all, but still...

Yachtzee
01-14-2008, 09:41 PM
Who in their right mind would think that Chad would fetch a #1 pick when Randy Moss only could bing a 3rd or 4th rounder?

The "Oakland Raiders Randy Moss" only brought that. I think if Moss were on the block right now, the "New England Patriots Randy Moss" could bring something more.

Bip Roberts
01-14-2008, 09:44 PM
umm you have me interested

Bip Roberts
01-14-2008, 09:45 PM
Who in their right mind would think that Chad would fetch a #1 pick when Randy Moss only could bring a 3rd or 4th rounder?

Anyone that understands the NFL and the reasons why Moss only netted a 4th

cincrazy
01-14-2008, 09:48 PM
Absolutely not. I wouldn't under normal circumstances, but especially so considering this franchise would probably waste another first round pick on a linebacker that can't stay out of prison or a running back who can't stay on the field.

RedFanAlways1966
01-14-2008, 09:57 PM
Hasn't the guy (Chad) led the AFC in receiving yards 4 seasons? Didn't he just set the team record for receiving yards in a season?

No trade. He has not shown any signs of decline from my view. The media may not like him, but those who listen to the media are doomed to fail. Some may not like his act, but he plays hard and sets records.

T.J. and Henry (when not suspended) benefit when Chad draws two men to cover him. Take away Chad and you make it easier for defenses to stop the other two.

XU Lou
01-14-2008, 09:59 PM
I would not, but I would draft a pyschotherapist in the third round.

WMR
01-14-2008, 10:04 PM
Absolutely not. I wouldn't under normal circumstances, but especially so considering this franchise would probably waste another first round pick on a linebacker that can't stay out of prison or a running back who can't stay on the field.

When did the Bengals waste a first round draft pick on a linebacker who can't stay out of prison?

Chip R
01-14-2008, 10:08 PM
But irregardless Chip - I just find it hilarious that Bengal fans have had no problem whatsoever, in the past, bringing to everyone attention players from around the league, and in sports in general, who have shown to be self-serving jerks. But when it's one of their very own they find ways to justify and excuse it.


Since I'm neither a Bengals or a Browns fan, I can be pretty objective about Chad Johnson. I'm not going to claim he has always acted perfectly but he's hardly the "bad actor" you and others make him out to be. If the worst thing you can indict him on is what happened during that playoff game against PIT, he's pretty much a model citizen. Chad Johnson getting a penalty for excessive celebration is no worse than another player getting a penalty for a late hit or roughing the kicker.

dougdirt
01-14-2008, 10:11 PM
When did the Bengals waste a first round draft pick on a linebacker who can't stay out of prison?

Pollack.... of course he was visiting people and reading them the bible. :D

guttle11
01-14-2008, 10:11 PM
I love Chad, and love what he brings to the table...

But yeah, I would. With a QB like Carson and a better running game (in theory), the Bengals could score 24-27 points a game with league average WRs.

But Chip is right, Chad Johnson would not bring a first round pick. More like a 3. 1st rounders are traded by teams who are "one guy" from a complete roster. How many teams are in that spot, and how many of them need a WR? I don't think any.

I'd rather them trade off #9 down to the 17-20 range and add another 2, maybe another 3 and 5. If a big name guy falls (ie Big Ben/Brady Quinn), I'd try my hardest to pull off the kind of deal Dallas pulled with the Browns.

WVRed
01-14-2008, 10:13 PM
How about this.

Would you trade TJ Houshmanzadeh for a first round pick?

Highlifeman21
01-14-2008, 10:31 PM
How about this.

Would you trade TJ Houshmanzadeh for a first round pick?

I certainly would.

Unfortunately I don't see TH being worth a 1st round pick in the NFL. If some team wants to offer a 1st for TH, then by all means, send TH packing.

WMR
01-14-2008, 10:38 PM
Pollack.... of course he was visiting people and reading them the bible. :D

Good one doug. :lol:

cincrazy
01-14-2008, 10:41 PM
When did the Bengals waste a first round draft pick on a linebacker who can't stay out of prison?

I exaggerated slightly when I threw prison in there, but for all intents and purposes, Odell Thurman might as well be in prison

WMR
01-14-2008, 10:44 PM
I exaggerated slightly when I threw prison in there, but for all intents and purposes, Odell Thurman might as well be in prison

Point is, he wasn't a first round pick.

Cedric
01-14-2008, 10:49 PM
Who are you referring to? CJ or T.O.? I've lost track. :lol:

Because as far as I'm concerned, they're both two pees in a pod.

Look - I've already acknowledged previously that T.O. and Moss' behavioral history is nothing to brag about, and pretty sad. To me that is not really the issue at all, and has nothing to do with Chad Johnson.

The statement was made that they were playing in the post-season last weekend, and that is all that matters.

And I was simply illustrating that this year, regardless of their previous conduct, which we all would agree was deplorable, you haven't heard a peep out of either of these two guys. And even when they have given interviews they've been pretty tame.

But irregardless Chip - I just find it hilarious that Bengal fans have had no problem whatsoever, in the past, bringing to everyone attention players from around the league, and in sports in general, who have shown to be self-serving jerks. But when it's one of their very own they find ways to justify and excuse it.
How in the hell can you compare Chad Johnson with Terrell Owens?

Chad has never said a bad word about any teammate to the media. TJ has yelled on the sidelines just as much as Chad.

macro
01-15-2008, 12:01 AM
Would you trade Chad Johnson for a #1 pick?

Yes, in a heartbeat, regardless of the draft position in the first round.

Chad isn't the entire problem, but he is part of the problem. I don't care how many yards he has gained. If you gain 100 yards and then drop the crucial third down pass with the game on the line, your team still loses. If you gain 125 yards one week and then cause a sideline disruption while gaining 30 yards the next game, the team isn't going to go 2-0 in those two games.

Bill Parcells was asked about "certain players" who had loads of talent but who had other issues. The question was (paraphrasing) "Can you afford to trade a guy with so much talent?" Parcells' reply was "You can't afford to NOT trade him".

Yachtzee
01-15-2008, 12:17 AM
How in the hell can you compare Chad Johnson with Terrell Owens?

Chad has never said a bad word about any teammate to the media. TJ has yelled on the sidelines just as much as Chad.

Chad has never questioned Carson's fortitude (Donovan McNabb) or his sexuality (Jeff Garcia). He's never created so much rancor with his team to warrant being suspended for four games. TO's happy now because he was on a playoff team, but I guarantee you if the Cowboys went in the tank, TO's mouth would be running.

Yachtzee
01-15-2008, 12:30 AM
GAC, I am willing to give Chad some slack because 1) his performance on the field, and 2) his antics in the past have largely been harmless. I can only hope his current behavior is merely frustration at the backsliding the Bengals saw this season, a frustration that many of us Bengals fans feel ourselves. Except for maybe Big Willie, most of Chad's teammates have taken up for him and say he's just a passionate guy who works hard. On the other hand, guys like TO and Randy Moss didn't exactly endear themselves to their teammates in other cities. Those quys are quiet now because they were able to P.I.T.A. their way onto a winning team. The question is, do you want a passionate guy willing to work hard on a team trying to shed its past history or do you want a guy who only seems to play nice with his teammates when they're already winning?

Personally, I find the ability of NFL players to raise a stink big enough to force their team to trade them distasteful. I much prefer a system where guys work hard to play out their contracts in hopes that they'll get paid by a team they want to play for in the next contract. I give Chad the benefit of the doubt now, but if he's doing this on Rosenhaus' advice to get out of Cincinnati, then I will no longer have any sympathy for him.

CTA513
01-15-2008, 12:58 AM
How about this.

Would you trade TJ Houshmanzadeh for a first round pick?

Yes, but I don't see anyone giving up a first round pick for him.

*BaseClogger*
01-15-2008, 05:36 AM
Yeah I'd trade him.

By the time this team has a defense to compete Chad will be in decline because of age. Lets go get some defense!

rotnoid
01-15-2008, 07:27 AM
Anyone that understands the NFL and the reasons why Moss only netted a 4th

Not necessarily true. If the Bengals do decide a trade is necessary, they're not exactly dealing from a position of strength. Chad's sideline and locker room antics are well documented. Anyone trying to deal for him will obviously know that and take that in consideration when offering compensation.

To answer the question, if someone offered a first rounder for Chad, I'd take it in a heart beat. Not gonna happen though.

SunDeck
01-15-2008, 08:33 AM
Chad Johnson is not the problem. He's vocal, he can be annoying and he draws far more attention to himself than he should. But he also draws an enormous amount of attention from defenses, which I believe opens up a lot of passes to other receivers. And he still gets his catches despite the double teaming.

The problem is that the Bengals have drafted the wrong positions. What they need is an offensive line that pushes the line of scrimmage down the field and a defensive line that stops the run and forces the pocket shut.

Yachtzee
01-15-2008, 09:19 AM
Chad Johnson is not the problem. He's vocal, he can be annoying and he draws far more attention to himself than he should. But he also draws an enormous amount of attention from defenses, which I believe opens up a lot of passes to other receivers. And he still gets his catches despite the double teaming.

The problem is that the Bengals have drafted the wrong positions. What they need is an offensive line that pushes the line of scrimmage down the field and a defensive line that stops the run and forces the pocket shut.

As the immortal Arthur Fonzarelli would say, "Exactamundo."

rotnoid
01-15-2008, 09:25 AM
Chad Johnson is not the problem. He's vocal, he can be annoying and he draws far more attention to himself than he should. But he also draws an enormous amount of attention from defenses, which I believe opens up a lot of passes to other receivers. And he still gets his catches despite the double teaming.

The problem is that the Bengals have drafted the wrong positions. What they need is an offensive line that pushes the line of scrimmage down the field and a defensive line that stops the run and forces the pocket shut.


Whether he is the problem or not, he's perceived as the problem. And not just by the media. Listen to the post game interviews with guys like John Thornton talking about selfishness. Who else is he talking about? I'm not saying that moving Chad solves all the problems, or even for that matter that he is a problem. My point is that he is a perceived problem and sometimes that's all it takes.

Of course, hanging on to him just gives them more excuses as to why they're still not any good and aren't close to making a serious run in the playoffs.

bucksfan2
01-15-2008, 09:54 AM
Whether he is the problem or not, he's perceived as the problem. And not just by the media. Listen to the post game interviews with guys like John Thornton talking about selfishness. Who else is he talking about? I'm not saying that moving Chad solves all the problems, or even for that matter that he is a problem. My point is that he is a perceived problem and sometimes that's all it takes.

Of course, hanging on to him just gives them more excuses as to why they're still not any good and aren't close to making a serious run in the playoffs.

I would tell Thorton to shut up and do your job. Nothing is worse than the defense not getting the job done and complaining about selfishness.

The second any coach starts listening to the media he should be fired. The media in this city really leans towards guys who appear on their shows or talk to them. Guys like Thorton, Madieu, Chinny, etc. The meida friendly guys tend to get a free pass in this city.

dsmith421
01-15-2008, 10:09 AM
I would tell Thorton to shut up and do your job. Nothing is worse than the defense not getting the job done and complaining about selfishness.

Especially since Thornton is one of the worst defensive linemen in football and has been a complete and utter bust in Cincinnati. That guy has absolutely no room to criticize anyone else's performance.

Yachtzee
01-15-2008, 10:12 AM
Whether he is the problem or not, he's perceived as the problem. And not just by the media. Listen to the post game interviews with guys like John Thornton talking about selfishness. Who else is he talking about? I'm not saying that moving Chad solves all the problems, or even for that matter that he is a problem. My point is that he is a perceived problem and sometimes that's all it takes.

Of course, hanging on to him just gives them more excuses as to why they're still not any good and aren't close to making a serious run in the playoffs.

If John Thornton is talking about anyone not on the defensive side of the ball, then he needs to shut his pie hole. If he's a leader of the defense, then his leadership stinks.

rotnoid
01-15-2008, 10:24 AM
If John Thornton is talking about anyone not on the defensive side of the ball, then he needs to shut his pie hole. If he's a leader of the defense, then his leadership stinks.

Maybe, but that's really not the point. If Chad's antics have reached so far that they're affecting guys on the defenseive side of the ball, maybe there's something more to it. I'm sure there are other examples, Thornton just seems to be the most vocal- another problem for another day though (the lack of vocal leaders).

I've always been a Chad defender, but lately he seems to be more and more TO-like in his approach to things. Maybe that's just because he's tired of the media, but when he goes on the radio (Mike & Mike last Friday) and starts talking about the locker room, it's gone too far for my tastes.

Yachtzee
01-15-2008, 10:29 AM
Maybe, but that's really not the point. If Chad's antics have reached so far that they're affecting guys on the defenseive side of the ball, maybe there's something more to it. I'm sure there are other examples, Thornton just seems to be the most vocal- another problem for another day though (the lack of vocal leaders).

I've always been a Chad defender, but lately he seems to be more and more TO-like in his approach to things. Maybe that's just because he's tired of the media, but when he goes on the radio (Mike & Mike last Friday) and starts talking about the locker room, it's gone too far for my tastes.

I don't think his antics are affecting the defensive side of the ball. If John Thornton is talking about Chad, then I think he's just passing the buck. The defense played poorly long before Chad started becoming a "problem."

Degenerate39
01-15-2008, 10:45 AM
How about this.

Would you trade TJ Houshmanzadeh for a first round pick?

Only if I knew Chris Henry would stay out of trouble

bucksfan2
01-15-2008, 11:14 AM
Maybe, but that's really not the point. If Chad's antics have reached so far that they're affecting guys on the defenseive side of the ball, maybe there's something more to it. I'm sure there are other examples, Thornton just seems to be the most vocal- another problem for another day though (the lack of vocal leaders).

I've always been a Chad defender, but lately he seems to be more and more TO-like in his approach to things. Maybe that's just because he's tired of the media, but when he goes on the radio (Mike & Mike last Friday) and starts talking about the locker room, it's gone too far for my tastes.

Where is Thorton opening up his mouth when Madieu Williams is dancing after making a play when the team was losing? Where is Thorton opening up his mouth when the D let Shawn Hill look like Joe Montana? Where was Thorton when the D gave up 51 points to the Browns?

Look I know Chad had a bad year and I know he did some things on the field that he shouldn't have but fact of the matter is what Chad did on the offensive side of the ball shouldn't have effected the D one bit. I don't recall him getting a 15 yard penality for a TD celebration this year so he really didn't do any harm to that defensive unit.

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 11:38 AM
I love how people never give chad credit for saying "its our offenses job to score more points" when asked about the terrible D

camisadelgolf
01-15-2008, 11:44 AM
If it weren't for the salary cap issues, I would do it. The salary cap issues make the trade ridiculous, though. T.J. Houshmandzadeh plus the other receivers is still a decent receiving corps, and the extra first round pick could be used for defense.

Yachtzee
01-15-2008, 11:51 AM
I love how people never give chad credit for saying "its our offenses job to score more points" when asked about the terrible D

Because, more often than not, the offense did do its job of scoring more points. It's the D that failed to put up more resistance than a stiff breeze. You have to be able to count on your D to make a stop every once in a while.

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 12:05 PM
Because, more often than not, the offense did do its job of scoring more points. It's the D that failed to put up more resistance than a stiff breeze. You have to be able to count on your D to make a stop every once in a while.

No im just saying that Chad has never thrown anyone on the team under the bus. He wont bad mouth anyone on the team yet people thing hes a big ole selfish dude that doesnt care about anyone but himself.

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 12:08 PM
and lord knows no one in the cincy media will cover anything positive about chad, they are too busy making stuff up and not being able to back it up with any facts. Or they just pull the "a little bird told me" bull crap. Lance Mcallister is the worst at pulling that card.

Screwball
01-15-2008, 12:12 PM
Look I know Chad had a bad year


This seems to be a far too prevalent train of thouht concerning Chad Johnson. This past season he had 93 catches for 1440 yards. He had 8 TDs. I'll concede he had a couple game-changing drops, but the numbers he put up were indicative of a season that was anything but bad.

I'm sure this'll put me in the minority, but there's no way in hell I trade away the (arguably) most explosive player on the team. He demands double and triple teams, which leaves holes and seams for guys like Housh and Henry to get open or to simply beat 1 on 1 coverage. From everything I've read he's as hard a worker as there is in the NFL. If we had more "problems" just like him on the defense, we'd be the perennial favorites to win the Super Bowl.

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 12:17 PM
Chad put up receiving yards but to watch every game like most people and say that he had a good year is pretty silly. It wasnt all him though either.

RedsManRick
01-15-2008, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't trade him for a #1, but I'd trade him for two #3s. 2 reasons. Firstly, WR in general are overrated. Give me a great offensive line and an accurate quarterback and I can get you a cheap WR to give you 80 catches, 1000 yards, and 8-10 TDs. Secondly, depth, particularly on the lines and at linebacker, is crucial. Johnson can't have an impact if our LG goes down and we don't have a capable replacement.

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 12:23 PM
Why on earth would you pass up a 2nd 1st rounder for 2 3rds. how about we trade him for 6 7th rounders?

Screwball
01-15-2008, 12:34 PM
Chad put up receiving yards but to watch every game like most people and say that he had a good year is pretty silly. It wasnt all him though either.

Sorry, I'll try to keep my facts and evidence out of the discussion.

I too watched all the games (hence I conceded him committing a couple of huge blunders during the season) and to say he didn't have a good '07 campaign is a testament to just how much Bengals fans take for granted Chad's production. As I've said above, he puts up monster numbers while being the focal point of the opposing defense. He makes it easier for other players to do their jobs. Unless the Bengals get bowled over by an offer of draft picks, you keep his huge production in Cincinnati.

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 12:46 PM
Sorry, I'll try to keep my facts and evidence out of the discussion.

I too watched all the games (hence I conceded him committing a couple of huge blunders during the season) and to say he didn't have a good '07 campaign is a testament to just how much Bengals fans take for granted Chad's production. As I've said above, he puts up monster numbers while being the focal point of the opposing defense. He makes it easier for other players to do their jobs. Unless the Bengals get bowled over by an offer of draft picks, you keep his huge production in Cincinnati.

I understand your point but he and palmer put up big numbers again this year but i wouldnt consider either having a good year. The whole offense outside of TJ had a really bad and inconsistent year.

WMR
01-15-2008, 01:20 PM
Chad will turn 31 next season. Just throwing that out there.

rotnoid
01-15-2008, 03:15 PM
Look I know Chad had a bad year and I know he did some things on the field that he shouldn't have but fact of the matter is what Chad did on the offensive side of the ball shouldn't have effected the D one bit. I don't recall him getting a 15 yard penality for a TD celebration this year so he really didn't do any harm to that defensive unit.

Not on the field. I agree. Chad has not had any immediate on the field affect on the defensive system. But don't you think the locker room atmosphere is at least being slightly impacted? That's my point. When TO was going all TO in Philly, it wasn't an offensive player that punched him in the mouth, it was Hugh Douglas. What goes on on the field is all well and good, but there is more to a football team than stats and x's and o's.

*BaseClogger*
01-15-2008, 03:36 PM
Why on earth would you pass up a 2nd 1st rounder for 2 3rds. how about we trade him for 6 7th rounders?

Hey Bip, it's the quantity vs. quality arguement again! :)

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 04:52 PM
Hey Bip, it's the quantity vs. quality arguement again! :)

Yea but this could actually be a argument when the other is just an incomplete equation.

Yachtzee
01-15-2008, 05:10 PM
Not on the field. I agree. Chad has not had any immediate on the field affect on the defensive system. But don't you think the locker room atmosphere is at least being slightly impacted? That's my point. When TO was going all TO in Philly, it wasn't an offensive player that punched him in the mouth, it was Hugh Douglas. What goes on on the field is all well and good, but there is more to a football team than stats and x's and o's.


IIRC, Philly's defense was pretty decent, so Hugh Douglas had some room to talk. Plus, TO was busy throwing his QB under the bus. I have yet to see Chad throw Carson under the bus. Thornton and the D have to get their own house in order before they can talk about the offense.

WVRed
01-15-2008, 05:45 PM
I certainly would.

Unfortunately I don't see TH being worth a 1st round pick in the NFL. If some team wants to offer a 1st for TH, then by all means, send TH packing.

TJ= 112 receptions, 1,143 yards, 12 TD's
Chad= 93 receptions, 1,440 yards, 8 TD's

Yet you wouldn't send Chad. I know Chad has been more consistent and productive since entering the league while TJ has had to work his way up, but as Willy Mo pointed out, Chad is 31 and TJ is about the same age. Wide receiver is also the most overrated and overglorified position on offense and once they age, its impossible to predict whether or not they will stay healthy.

Here's a better question. TO is a FA at the end of the season. If Dallas called and offered both first round picks(Keyshawn trade) for Chad, would you take it and use the picks to revamp the defense?

cincrazy
01-15-2008, 06:47 PM
Point is, he wasn't a first round pick.

My bad for the slip up. We've had so many busts over the years I suppose I tend to lose track. He's still been a major disappointment though, especially off the field.

pedro
01-15-2008, 06:49 PM
Point is, he's still a piece of garbage that was a waste of a valuable pick

I know Thurman's got some problems but it's not really cool to refer to other human beings as "garbage". It lessens us all.

at least unless they are murderers and rapists, anyway.

cincrazy
01-15-2008, 06:57 PM
I'm a Bengals fan... it's not a horse that I ride, it's a one legged mule, and it doesn't stand very high at all

Danny Serafini
01-15-2008, 07:04 PM
TJ= 112 receptions, 1,143 yards, 12 TD's
Chad= 93 receptions, 1,440 yards, 8 TD's

TJ thrives off of the double teams that Chad draws. Remove Chad and TJ's numbers take a big dip.

cincrazy
01-15-2008, 07:17 PM
I know Thurman's got some problems but it's not really cool to refer to other human beings as "garbage". It lessens us all.

at least unless they are murderers and rapists, anyway.

You're correct. I'm not sure what's sadder though, Thurman not getting help himself, or the people around him not doing enough to pull him up from the gutter. He's a guy a lot like Clarett.. had his future in the palm of his hands, and threw it all away.

cincrazy
01-15-2008, 07:18 PM
TJ thrives off of the double teams that Chad draws. Remove Chad and TJ's numbers take a big dip.

Agreed. I know this example is from the college game, but during the 2007 BCS title game, when Ginn got hurt, you saw what happened to Gonzo.

He was much easier to handle without safeties sliding over to guard against Ginn flying down the field.

WMR
01-15-2008, 07:32 PM
I know Thurman's got some problems but it's not really cool to refer to other human beings as "garbage". It lessens us all.

at least unless they are murderers and rapists, anyway.

I believe DUKE fans qualify as another exception. :D

klw
01-15-2008, 08:24 PM
I would trade him for a 1st rounder and Jay Bruce

Why would anyone trade a 1st for him until it is clear whether Moss is returning to the Patriots?

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 08:27 PM
I would trade him for a 1st rounder and Jay Bruce

Why would anyone trade a 1st for him until it is clear whether Moss is returning to the Patriots?
Because the patriots are just going to franchise him

Highlifeman21
01-15-2008, 08:33 PM
TJ= 112 receptions, 1,143 yards, 12 TD's
Chad= 93 receptions, 1,440 yards, 8 TD's

Yet you wouldn't send Chad. I know Chad has been more consistent and productive since entering the league while TJ has had to work his way up, but as Willy Mo pointed out, Chad is 31 and TJ is about the same age. Wide receiver is also the most overrated and overglorified position on offense and once they age, its impossible to predict whether or not they will stay healthy.

Here's a better question. TO is a FA at the end of the season. If Dallas called and offered both first round picks(Keyshawn trade) for Chad, would you take it and use the picks to revamp the defense?

TJ has greatly benefited from Chad being double-teamed/getting more attention from the secondary. Basically, he's made the most of his opportunities. Good for him.

I wouldn't send Chad b/c we know what Chad can and will do, while we have seen what TJ's done, but can't accurately predict what he can do. Chad's a special talent. TJ, not so much. Chad's an elite WR. Again, TJ, not so much.

If someone was dumb enough to offer 2 1st Round Picks for any WR, there's no possible way you can turn down that offer. I like Chad as much as the next guy, but 2 1st Round Picks? That's a no-brainer. As for revamping the D, I'm not so convinced 2 1st Round Draft Picks would really help all that much. We just have too many needs. The more I think about it, the more I think we need to keep Chad and Carson, and send everyone else packing that's 27 or older. Interesting to see how that would play out.

CaiGuy
01-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Sure, maybe we could draft the next Chad Johnson.

CaiGuy
01-16-2008, 01:06 PM
I would trade him for a 1st rounder and Jay Bruce

Why would anyone trade a 1st for him until it is clear whether Moss is returning to the Patriots?

Bruce could dominate the NFL during the baseball off season;)

bucksfan2
01-16-2008, 02:14 PM
Sure, maybe we could draft the next Chad Johnson.

Of the first round WR draft picks in the past 5 how many have turned into top notch WR? Drafting WR's is easier said than done. Here are the WR's taken in the first round in each of the last 5 drafts.

2003
Andre Johnson*
Charles Rogers
Bryant Johnson
2004
Larry Fitzgerald*
Roy Williams*
Reggie Williams
Lee Evans
Michael Clayton
Michael Jenkins
Rashaun Woods
2005
Braylon Edwards*
Troy Williamson
Mike Williams
Mark Clayton
Roddy White
2006
Santonio Holmes
2007
Ted Ginn, Jr.
Dwayne Bowe
Robert Meachem
Craig Davis
Anthony Gonzalez

The guys with * have made the pro bowl (Roy Williams of the Cowboys continues to make the Pro Bowl so take this with a grain of salt) and tend to be pretty good bets to be #1 type recievers. Outside of the Pro Bowlers, Holmes and Evans are really see the only other WR's that I can forsee becomeing a type #1 reciever. IMO none of these guys will become as good of a WR as Chad is.

camisadelgolf
01-17-2008, 10:24 AM
I read some research about NFL draft picks in recent years, and when it came to drafting wide receivers in the first round, the odds were about 50/50 that the WR would be a bust.

Boss-Hog
01-17-2008, 11:54 AM
I wouldn't trade him for a first round pick. While I don't agree with everything Chad does, I don't think he's responsible for all the selfishness/maturity issues often associated with the team.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 12:12 PM
My personal opinion in that TJ is better than Chad and I would not trade either of them.

They should never have let Steinbach go. Big mistake. IMO, the difference between the Browns and Bengals in 2007 (3 games) was Steinbach.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 12:39 PM
My personal opinion in that TJ is better than Chad and I would not trade either of them.

They should never have let Steinbach go. Big mistake. IMO, the difference between the Browns and Bengals in 2007 (3 games) was Steinbach.

or it was two starting OT being injured most of the year, having no running game... having to play games with 5th string line backers.

Degenerate39
01-17-2008, 01:04 PM
Just saw on ESPNews that he Bengals don't expect to trade Chad

Yachtzee
01-17-2008, 01:06 PM
or it was two starting OT being injured most of the year, having no running game... having to play games with 5th string line backers.

I think the benefit the Bengals had with Steinbach over what they had this year was that Steinbach can slide over to tackle or center when the starter gets hurt at those positions. I would have felt better with Steinbach in there as Ghiachuc's backup than Stepanovich. I don't know it it would have made a three-game difference, but I think the running game would have been better with Steinbach than it was without him.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 01:12 PM
or it was two starting OT being injured most of the year, having no running game... having to play games with 5th string line backers.

Nah, it was Steinbach. Having him would have helped the first two reasons on your list (injuries to OL and running game).

As for the defense, even with it's cursed luck and injuries, it still was better than Cleveland's with all that went wrong.

Letting Steinbach go was preventable and inexcusable, unlike injuries and bad luck.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 01:14 PM
I think the benefit the Bengals had with Steinbach over what they had this year was that Steinbach can slide over to tackle or center when the starter gets hurt at those positions. I would have felt better with Steinbach in there as Ghiachuc's backup than Stepanovich. I don't know it it would have made a three-game difference, but I think the running game would have been better with Steinbach than it was without him.

Just beating the Browns in Cleveland is a two game swing. I think Steinbach was worth that and 1 more game.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 01:36 PM
We were a 8 win team with steinbach in 06 and a 7 win team with out him + all those problems in 07... Im going to go with Solid QB play and having a starting RB that was worthy of the position had more to do with the Browns winning 10 games than 1 free agent guard

traderumor
01-17-2008, 01:41 PM
Just saw on ESPNews that he Bengals don't expect to trade ChadThat's good news. It can keep the focus where it needs to be--the D

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 02:36 PM
We were a 8 win team with steinbach in 06 and a 7 win team with out him + all those problems in 07... Im going to go with Solid QB play and having a starting RB that was worthy of the position had more to do with the Browns winning 10 games than 1 free agent guard

And they went 11-5 with him in 2005. 11 + 8 + 8 = 27 wins in three years. That's nine wins a year. Then they win 7 this year. There's two wins right there. Beating Cleveland with one of those two puts them at 9-7 and us at 9-7. There's the three games I'm talking about.

Good OL's produce good RB's. Unless you are talking LT or Westbrook, etc. RB's are a dime a dozen. It's what up front that counts.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 02:52 PM
And they went 11-5 with him in 2005. 11 + 8 + 8 = 27 wins in three years. That's nine wins a year. Then they win 7 this year. There's two wins right there. Beating Cleveland with one of those two puts them at 9-7 and us at 9-7. There's the three games I'm talking about.

Good OL's produce good RB's. Unless you are talking LT or Westbrook, etc. RB's are a dime a dozen. It's what up front that counts.

Thats the most confusing thing ive ever read. You cant pin anything on 1 player... what if Thurman was a part of us winning 11 games in 05, he very well could have been... you cant just say well its because Steinbach . Us beating the browns in Cleveland wouldnt have made us a 9-7 team... it would have made us an 8-8 team im not really sure what you even mean by that general statement.

Steinbach was a good player but he isnt the sole reason like you are trying to make him out to be. Browns drafted Joe Thomas, added a proven NFL back with a mission and found a semi decent QB. Thats where their wins came from not just the addition of Steinbach.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 02:53 PM
Hey, Bip.

Lighten up.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 02:54 PM
Hey, Bip.

Lighten up.

Wow brilliant

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 02:55 PM
The Bipster is very angry.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 02:59 PM
The Bipster is very angry.

If you say so.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 03:08 PM
No need to get angry, Bipster. We're having a discussion on Bengal football. Nobody should get to upset over a discussion such as this.

My opinion is that a guy like Steinbach was the difference between the Browns and Bengals and it's not that difficult to formulate this opinion. They barely lost to the Browns in Cleveland and they lost a few other games they very easily could have won. Especially when you consider that both Willie and Levi played hurt all year and the running game (as you said) struggled. One more dominant lineman gives them flexibility with those injuries and opens up the running game, which in turn, makes Carson not a sitting duck back there.

Beat Cleveland and Cleveland is 9-7 right there. Win one other game (which was easily possible consdiering they lost a few close ones) and the Bengals are 9-7.

CTA513
01-17-2008, 03:10 PM
Whitworth has done a good job at left guard, its the guy playing to the right of him (Ghiaciuc) that needs to either improve a bunch or be replaced.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 03:11 PM
No need to get angry, Bipster. We're having a discussion on Bengal football. Nobody should get to upset over a discussion such as this.

My opinion is that a guy like Steinbach was the difference between the Browns and Bengals and it's not that difficult to formulate this opinion. They barely lost to the Browns in Cleveland and they lost a few other games they very easily could have won. Especially when you consider that both Willie and Levi played hurt all year and the running game (as you said) struggled. One more dominant lineman gives them flexibility with those injuries and opens up the running game, which in turn, makes Carson not a sitting duck back there.

Beat Cleveland and Cleveland is 9-7 right there. Win one other game (which was easily possible consdiering they lost a few close ones) and the Bengals are 9-7.

Im not even angry so i dont know what you are going for there but yea Steinbach was a good player but to say that the loss of him cost us 3 games alone is just silly. I dont care how easy you think it is to get to that its just very very silly. Your little equation is full of whaaa if you ask me. You need to explain it a little better or not many people are going to understand it

*BaseClogger*
01-17-2008, 03:36 PM
It seems a little silly to assume one offensive lineman can make a three win difference, but BuckeyeRedLeg is entitled to his opinion and lets just leave it at that...

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 03:39 PM
Im not even angry so i dont know what you are going for there but yea Steinbach was a good player but to say that the loss of him cost us 3 games alone is just silly. I dont care how easy you think it is to get to that its just very very silly. Your little equation is full of whaaa if you ask me. You need to explain it a little better or not many people are going to understand it

Go back and read. I never said he cost us 3 games. I said it was the difference between the Bengals and the Browns. Three games.

And you do come off as angry. Of course, maybe not as much now that you have edited your post from "stupidest" to "confusing". Nice.

This little exchange is a perfect example of what people are talking about in the other thread, regarding the lack of a civil forum to discuss Bengal football. You appear to be pretty new around hear, but I'd like to remind you that a little civility is not only appreciated, but expected around here.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 03:40 PM
It seems a little silly to assume one offensive lineman can make a three win difference, but BuckeyeRedLeg is entitled to his opinion and lets just leave it at that...

Never said that.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 03:43 PM
Go back and read. I never said he cost us 3 games. I said it was the difference between the Bengals and the Browns. Three games.

And you do come off as angry. Of course, maybe not as much now that you have edited your post from "stupidest" to "confusing". Nice.

This little exchange is a perfect example of what people are talking about in the other thread, regarding the lack of a civil forum to discuss Bengal football. You appear to be pretty new around hear, but I'd like to remind you that a little civility is not only appreciated, but expected around here.
You some how tried to say that were wernt a 11-5 team because of him not being here then went on to say that hes the only reason the browns won 3 more games than us and that we would have been a 9-7 team if we beat the browns in Cleveland. Yea sorry if I had trouble understanding any part of what you were saying.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 03:45 PM
You some how tried to say that were wernt a 11-5 team because of him not being here then went on to say that hes the only reason the browns won 3 more games than us and that we would have been a 9-7 team if we beat the browns in Cleveland. Yea sorry if I had trouble understanding any part of what you were saying.

Wait a second. You are having trouble understanding MY posts?

The irony in that.

Roy Tucker
01-17-2008, 03:48 PM
I wouldn't trade him for a first round pick. While I don't agree with everything Chad does, I don't think he's responsible for all the selfishness/maturity issues often associated with the team.

This is pretty well where I'm at too.

Chad doing and saying stupid things is a symptom of the problem and not the problem itself. Put him in with the right coaches and team leaders and he's fine. Look at Randy Moss. Good teams don't let this stuff happen.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 03:49 PM
Wait a second. You are having trouble understanding MY posts?

The irony in that.

I'm just retyping pretty much exactly what you have been saying for the last 5 or so post so I guess the joke is on you. Remember be a little more civil isn't that your advice? Are you new here?

*BaseClogger*
01-17-2008, 03:51 PM
Never said that.


Just beating the Browns in Cleveland is a two game swing. I think Steinbach was worth that and 1 more game.

my bad- two games

BuckeyeRedleg
01-17-2008, 03:52 PM
I'm just retyping pretty much exactly what you have been saying for the last 5 or so post so I guess the joke is on you. Remember be a little more civil isn't that your advice? Are you new here?

Right. Yes, you pretty much summed everything up right there.

Bipster, I can't help it if reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.

I will step aside from this conversation now. I see nothing positive that can come out of it. Good day.

Chip R
01-17-2008, 03:54 PM
You guys want to lighten up?

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 03:58 PM
Right. Yes, you pretty much summed everything up right there.

Bipster, I can't help it if reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits.

I will step aside from this conversation now. I see nothing positive that can come out of it. Good day.
Take cheap shots at me because you are the one having problems. Id step aside also if I was you. Im not the only one apparently that has understanding what you were saying.

WMR
01-17-2008, 03:58 PM
You guys want to lighten up?

Hehehehehehehe... don't make Chip turn this thread around.

*BaseClogger*
01-17-2008, 04:00 PM
You guys argued for like two pages and I still can't quite figure out what you were arguing over... :confused:

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 04:01 PM
It was over Eric Steinbach and how many games he single handedly won for the browns this year or something

*BaseClogger*
01-17-2008, 04:05 PM
It was over Eric Steinbach and how many games he single handedly won for the browns this year or something

right... I don't think either one of you understood what the other was thinking, and I didn't understand either of you...

WMR
01-17-2008, 04:06 PM
It would have been a great 3 stooges routine.

bucksfan2
01-17-2008, 04:08 PM
I dont buy that one player (Steinbach) would have made the difference between being a playoff team and not being a playoff team. The offensive woes this season were a combination of injuries to the two starting tackles and the running game. Whitworth and Andrews played pretty good this season and IMO that they would have been able to replace Steinbach with out losing too much had Levi and Willie stayed healthy this year. The bengals made their decision and let Steinbach walk because they didn't want to pay him tackle money to play guard. The Seahawks did the same thing a few years ago with their all world guard. It was a decision they made, you cant keep everyone.

traderumor
01-17-2008, 04:10 PM
This is pretty well where I'm at too.

Chad doing and saying stupid things is a symptom of the problem and not the problem itself. Put him in with the right coaches and team leaders and he's fine. Look at Randy Moss. Good teams don't let this stuff happen.Randy Moss is in trouble right now. Not sure if its true, but perhaps the Pats got distracted and let someone out of the gulag.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 04:15 PM
right... I don't think either one of you understood what the other was thinking, and I didn't understand either of you...

I just said the browns won 10 games because they had a solid QB a good RB and drafted a great player in Joe thomas, not just because they signed Steinbach. Those other things had way more to do with just bringing in a free agent.

Bip Roberts
01-17-2008, 04:20 PM
chad johnson trade picks 1st rounder topic details what ifs

*BaseClogger*
01-17-2008, 04:29 PM
It would have been a great 3 stooges routine.

:laugh:

Yachtzee
01-17-2008, 04:53 PM
I dont buy that one player (Steinbach) would have made the difference between being a playoff team and not being a playoff team. The offensive woes this season were a combination of injuries to the two starting tackles and the running game. Whitworth and Andrews played pretty good this season and IMO that they would have been able to replace Steinbach with out losing too much had Levi and Willie stayed healthy this year. The bengals made their decision and let Steinbach walk because they didn't want to pay him tackle money to play guard. The Seahawks did the same thing a few years ago with their all world guard. It was a decision they made, you cant keep everyone.

I don't think the killer on the O-Line was the difference between Steinbach and Whitworth and/or Andrews, but rather the fact that the Bengals could no longer slide Steinbach over to C if Ghiachuc struggled or got hurt. I understand the reason why they didn't keep him and thought it was a good idea when they let him go, but in retrospect, I think they would have been better off resigning him rather than putting the franchise tag on Justin Smith. Or even better, I think they would have been better off going whole hog after a guy like Adalius Thomas.

Keeping Steinbach wouldn't have necessarily won more games, but I think there would have been more flexibility on the offensive line and less of a drop off in performance when Anderson, Jones, and Ghiachuc were injured or were struggling.

Boss-Hog
01-17-2008, 07:21 PM
Steinbach is a good player and was a nice pickup for the Browns, but given the Benglals situation, he's not someone I would have given 50+ million. You can certainly debate whether it was worthwhile to resign the tackles for that kind of money, though.

It's worth noting that the Bengals scored 45 points at Cleveland (while the defense of course allowed 51), so unless you expected the offense to score 52 points, I'm not so sure that we missed Steinbach that game.

GAC
01-17-2008, 09:19 PM
Chad Johnson getting a penalty for excessive celebration is no worse than another player getting a penalty for a late hit or roughing the kicker.

Then you've obviously haven't been listening to me because the excessive and pre-planned endzone celebrations, as well as his sideline antics, which are designed to draw attention to himself, are not an issue with me. I've said that repeatedly.....


Again - it's not about the endzone celebrations or attention getting antics some define as having fun and being entertaining

I've never liked the excessive "self promotion" and egos that are displayed every Sunday during games. Whether it's a guy scoring a TD, or a LBer making a sack/tackle and having to stand up and beat his chest like it's all about me.

So it's not just Chad in that sense.

But what I have said....


but when an obviously high-strung and emotional player, when things aren't going his way or the team is losing, is having confrontations with other players and the coaching staff in the locker room and on the sidelines. No one is going to convince me that those latter items aren't a problem, and can prove to be a distraction for a team. It was with T.O., Moss, and Keyshawn - but it's somehow different with Chad?


As I stated before - many feel he is a problem. Not the problem. There is a difference.

And when it's alluded to by the head coach and various other Bengal players, who are in that locker room, and that it's a problem, then I don't think it's something to be lightly disregarded.

GAC
01-17-2008, 09:37 PM
GAC, I am willing to give Chad some slack because 1) his performance on the field

So one's performance on the field somehow cancels out or justifies their behavior? If so, then why were players like T.O., Moss, Keyshawn, and many others if we wanted to expand the list, who are/were all considered elite receivers/players catching so much grief from the fans and media for their conduct?


2) his antics in the past have largely been harmless.

If you're referring to the endzone celebrations, Ocho Cinco jacket, and similar stuff, then I agree Yachtzee. And I've stated that prior. I've never said those things proved to be a detriment to the team. Just, IMHO, that he's a self-serving egotist and a jackass. But again, I don't think that hurts the team.


I can only hope his current behavior is merely frustration at the backsliding the Bengals saw this season, a frustration that many of us Bengals fans feel ourselves..... The question is, do you want a passionate guy willing to work hard on a team trying to shed its past history or do you want a guy who only seems to play nice with his teammates when they're already winning?

And it has been frustrating Yachtzee.... for all the Bengal players, not just Chad.

He may have passion; but I think that is an insult to some of the other players on that team who also have passion and the will to want to win; but they somehow don't express it in the same vocal and outward way that Chad seems to do.

His emotionalism, which we all admit has gotten out of hand (control) at times, including during games, can't always be described or excused away as "passion" IMO.

Again - it's the head coach and various players who have alluded to this as a problem.

Yachtzee
01-17-2008, 11:20 PM
So one's performance on the field somehow cancels out or justifies their behavior? If so, then why were players like T.O., Moss, Keyshawn, and many others if we wanted to expand the list, who are/were all considered elite receivers/players catching so much grief from the fans and media for their conduct?



If you're referring to the endzone celebrations, Ocho Cinco jacket, and similar stuff, then I agree Yachtzee. And I've stated that prior. I've never said those things proved to be a detriment to the team. Just, IMHO, that he's a self-serving egotist and a jackass. But again, I don't think that hurts the team.



And it has been frustrating Yachtzee.... for all the Bengal players, not just Chad.

He may have passion; but I think that is an insult to some of the other players on that team who also have passion and the will to want to win; but they somehow don't express it in the same vocal and outward way that Chad seems to do.

His emotionalism, which we all admit has gotten out of hand (control) at times, including during games, can't always be described or excused away as "passion" IMO.

Again - it's the head coach and various players who have alluded to this as a problem.

See, I think you're giving Chad too little credit for what he contributes to the team. It's easy to extrapolate from his goofy endzone stuff and hall of fame jacket bs to say he's a negative influence. Numerous players and Marvin Lewis have all said that they don't have a problem with him, he's passionate and he works hard. The two incidents that get cited most, the blow up at halftime during the playoff game against Pittsburgh and his "tiff" on the sideline with Carson Palmer have both been described by all parties involved as overblown and not what the media makes them out to be.

Marvin Lewis has alluded to selfishness, but has never stated who is selfish. It's the media that points to Chad, even though Marvin Lewis has stated that Chad is not the problem and that he likes Chad's passion.

I think you give too much credit to other Bengals players as well. I think there are a number of selfish guys on the team and their names are not Chad Johnson. Some of those guys don't have a right to be as frustrated as Chad because they are the cause of the frustration. The facts are, Chad (and TJ, who also has a strong opinion of himself and just dishes it out to opposing fans rather than the media) performs on the field and helps the team win football games. A number of Bengals have not performed on the field and have helped the Bengals lose football games. If you knew more about some of the other "characters" on the Bengals, you wouldn't worry so much about Chad. In fact, from what I've heard Chris Henry is far more of a disruption in the locker room than Chad, yet a lot of people seem to believe that the Bengals should trade Chad and move Henry to his spot.

I think the difference between Chad and TO, Moss, and Keyshawn is that they went beyond just self-promotion. It's one thing to actively promote one's own accomplishments, but it's another to actively sabotage your own team's efforts. Moss has admitted that he took plays off and didn't give his best effort in Minnesota and Oakland. He also actively dogged the coaching staff in the middle of the season. TO openly questioned the sexuality of one of his QBs and thrashed another in public during a season where he was such a locker room disruption that caused the team to suspend him for the rest of the season. Keyshawn did a pretty good job of wearing out his welcome with the Tampa Bay Bucs. Chad's antics are harmless by comparison.

Bip Roberts
01-18-2008, 01:31 AM
Chad has never thrown anyone under the bus or even said anything remotely negative about the bengals.

Chip R
01-18-2008, 08:09 AM
Then you've obviously haven't been listening to me because the excessive and pre-planned endzone celebrations, as well as his sideline antics, which are designed to draw attention to himself, are not an issue with me. I've said that repeatedly.....



Why would I listen to you? :lol:

RedFanAlways1966
01-18-2008, 09:02 AM
From Marvin...


Lewis, addressing those remarks {Chad's} on Wednesday, said, "He didn't say anything different -- that he was unduly chastised for being this or that. He's going to go back and be a pro and go forward and play. As I said then, there will be no trade of Chad Johnson. Repeat it again."

Lewis' daughter had notified him of Johnson's appearance on radio, and Lewis was not surprised by everything Johnson brought up. Asked about Johnson's attitude, Lewis said, "I can't control that. That doesn't mean anything to me right now. He's a special player and he's a Cincinnati Bengal for quite a while."

GAC
01-19-2008, 04:53 AM
Why would I listen to you? :lol:

You obviously have to in order to respond. So which came first - the chicken or the egg? :lol:

GAC
01-19-2008, 06:00 AM
See, I think you're giving Chad too little credit for what he contributes to the team.

I credit him for being one of the best WRs in NFL today. What else am I suppose to credit him for? The Bengal's success over these last few years Chad contributed to. That still, IMO, doesn't excuse the other stuff.


It's easy to extrapolate from his goofy endzone stuff and hall of fame jacket bs to say he's a negative influence.

Again Yachtzee - as much as I don't like those self exploiting antics, didn't I state that I don't think those particular situations (or behavior) are detrimental to the team? I just think, IMHO, it proves him to be a self promoting jerk. And over the years we've seen this type of egotistical behavior being demonstrated more and more in sports, and a majority of us don't like it. I never have.

But that's not my problem with CJ. His work ethic and passion has been repeatedly mentioned as a defense. I've never once criticized those either. But one "set" of pluses doesn't negate (or excuse) what many others see as negatives.

I've never advocated that he should be traded either.


The two incidents that get cited most, the blow up at halftime during the playoff game against Pittsburgh and his "tiff" on the sideline with Carson Palmer have both been described by all parties involved as overblown and not what the media makes them out to be.

My personal opinion of Johnson has been formed by the two incidents you mention above, plus several others.....

I don't need the media to explain those situations to me or what happened. Other then the Pitt locker room situation, which no one saw, every other situation was viewed before the cameras and on that playing field. With the Pitt situation, all we know is that something of a serious nature occurred there, and Johnson was at the center of it. Even various Bengal players confirmed this.

The sideline situation with Palmer, when it occurred, really pee-d me off. Call it a "tiff" or whatever, it still should have never happened, and confirms to me anyway that Johnson allows his emotions (not his head) to get the best of him and say/do things that don't help the team and which he later regrets and has to explain.......

Your QB just throws an INT due to crossed signals with the receiver (Johnson). And like any QB, he goes back to the sidelines and sits on the bench with his head down. The guy is obviously bummed and feels pretty rotten about what has happened. He's thinking about it and trying to get his head back into the game. The last thing he needs at this point is the receiver standing over top of him bending his ear. And I watched the whole scenario on camera. Johnson is obviously irritating Palmer because Palmer gets up and tries to walk away from him, not wanting hear it right now. And Johnson is following him and still bending his ear. CJ's facial expressions tell it all. And when the halftime whistle blows several minutes later Johnson is still going after Palmer as they walk to the locker room. Just totally uncalled for IMO.

And we know later on, because more details come out a few days later, that what CJ was bending Palmer's ear about was that Johnson felt Carson screwed up on that play, and it was all his fault. Chad later then apologizes and says he did run the wrong route. But my point is that even if it was Palmer's fault, you don't do that to your QB on the sideline.

Think sometimes before you react.

There was then the similar situation as above, but where Palmer throws an incomplete pass. Johnson, in Palmer's mind, runs the wrong route and Palmer starts streaking down the field to openly confront the guy. The only thing that stops him is one of his own players grabs Carson and restrains him. That's not a good situation. And while it doesn't prove they are mortal enemies or hate each other, it does, IMHO, show there QB-receiver relationship is not so kosher. And we have all seen evidence of this "not being on the same page" between Palmer and Johnson throughout the course of this past season.

There was the situation last year during the second half of the season when Johnson was again all keyed up and emotional because things weren't going right for him. Defenses, which have learned to respect the guy and his talent, double team him and shut him down. And they also go after the guy because during the week prior to the game he likes to utilize that very same media that everyone harps is giving Chad a had time to talk about/promote his check (or hit) list of the opposing team's secondary, and how they can't stop him. Or he sends them props like Pepto-Bismol (and that game didn't go well at all for Chad either).

These are the types of things that give head coaches nightmares, and IMO makes their job, and the team's, even harder. It's no different then when a player opens his big mouth before a game and says something stupid to disrespect an opposing team and give them bulletin board fodder to really motivate them. And even Marvin Lewis has stated in the past he doesn't like this stuff.

So any way - Chad is standing over on the sidelines and is obviously agitated. Lewis and another player tries to walk up to Johnson and talk to him. As soon as Lewis puts his hand on Chad's shoulder he jerks away and has words with Lewis. The rest of the game Chad is on one end of the sideline and Lewis is on the other.

I've never denied this guy's passion. What I've said is that his personality and emotionalism is one of immaturity, and he needs to grow up.


Marvin Lewis has alluded to selfishness, but has never stated who is selfish.

The "signals" he has given doesn't, IMO, require a rocket scientist to see who the most likely culprit is Yachtzee. Especially when he frames that selfishness in one aspect about player(s) unhappy about their money/contract. Isn't that one of the items alluded to on this thread - that Chad (or his agent) want his contract reworked? Coincidence?


It's the media that points to Chad, even though Marvin Lewis has stated that Chad is not the problem and that he likes Chad's passion.

And that's my problem with Marvin Lewis. Why even say this stuff to the media at all? He says he has no problem with Chad, yet throws out these "nuggets" through the media, and in a roundabout way tells everyone to try and figure out who it is when it points to Johnson for the most part. Then, when confronted with that, he either downplays it, pulls a typical PR job, and says something nice about Chad to try and defuse the situation.



I think you give too much credit to other Bengals players as well.

What credit was I giving other to say that I think there are other players on this team, other then CJ alone, who also have a passion to want to win.


I think there are a number of selfish guys on the team and their names are not Chad Johnson. Some of those guys don't have a right to be as frustrated as Chad because they are the cause of the frustration.

That may all be very well and true Yachtzee. Who they are we really don't know because they are not as vocal and utilize the media like Chad does. But to somehow allude that only Chad Johnson has the right to be frustrated. when IMO, everyone on this team, from the players down to the coaching staff, have that right, is giving to much to Chad.


The facts are, Chad (and TJ, who also has a strong opinion of himself and just dishes it out to opposing fans rather than the media) performs on the field and helps the team win football games. A number of Bengals have not performed on the field and have helped the Bengals lose football games.

Again, all that may very well be true. If a player(s) isn't performing up to expectations then that is the job of the coaching staff to evaluate that player(s), and if needed, replace them. What does a player openly venting, or or allowing his emotions to get him frustrated really accomplish?


If you knew more about some of the other "characters" on the Bengals, you wouldn't worry so much about Chad.

Not worried about Chad at all Yachtzee. If you'll notice, every thread on this forum that was started concerning Chad and his behavior, was started by a Bengal fan. I just simply enjoy the discussion in this boring off-season.


In fact, from what I've heard Chris Henry is far more of a disruption in the locker room than Chad, yet a lot of people seem to believe that the Bengals should trade Chad and move Henry to his spot.

And those people are who for the most part? Bengal fans. Chris Henry would be on a short leash if I was the head coach.


I think the difference between Chad and TO, Moss, and Keyshawn is that they went beyond just self-promotion. It's one thing to actively promote one's own accomplishments, but it's another to actively sabotage your own team's efforts. Moss has admitted that he took plays off and didn't give his best effort in Minnesota and Oakland. He also actively dogged the coaching staff in the middle of the season. TO openly questioned the sexuality of one of his QBs and thrashed another in public during a season where he was such a locker room disruption that caused the team to suspend him for the rest of the season.

I wasn't the one who injected the names of T.O and Moss into this discussion. Let me clarify what I meant when I said that CJ and T.O. are "two peas in a pod"....

I didn't mean for it to imply that Chad's actions have been to the same degree or severity as what these other two had done, and which you list above. Only that Chad himself has talked about wanting to emulate these guys he looks up to, and that he emulates it to the degree he is flamboyant, has an ego that thrives on self promotion, craves the attention and wants consistently to be on center stage and in the spotlight. That spotlight, which comes via the media attention, comes with a two-edged sword. ;)


Keyshawn did a pretty good job of wearing out his welcome with the Tampa Bay Bucs. Chad's antics are harmless by comparison.

If one goes back and looks at the early first years of guys like T.O and Keyshawn, they started out pretty harmless too. And I'm not saying that CJ is headed down that same path either. Only that he has the personality that could lead him that way if he doesn't emotionally grow up IMO.

dsmith421
01-19-2008, 11:14 AM
Steinbach is a good player and was a nice pickup for the Browns, but given the Benglals situation, he's not someone I would have given 50+ million. You can certainly debate whether it was worthwhile to resign the tackles for that kind of money, though.

The Bengals' salary cap numbers are already way too skewed toward offense. I have a friend who used to work for a sports agency and showed me some proprietary salary cap information he put together. The Bengals spend far below the league average at every defensive position except end (due to the Smith franchising and Geathers bonus) and are in the bottom five in terms of LB and DT. That's got to stop.

Giving Steinbach a huge extension at the expense of Willie/Levi would have been all right, but signing all three would have further robbed Peter to pay Paul, and Peter was already living at the railyard eating beans out of a can.

Yachtzee
01-19-2008, 01:31 PM
The Bengals' salary cap numbers are already way too skewed toward offense. I have a friend who used to work for a sports agency and showed me some proprietary salary cap information he put together. The Bengals spend far below the league average at every defensive position except end (due to the Smith franchising and Geathers bonus) and are in the bottom five in terms of LB and DT. That's got to stop.

Giving Steinbach a huge extension at the expense of Willie/Levi would have been all right, but signing all three would have further robbed Peter to pay Paul, and Peter was already living at the railyard eating beans out of a can.

I think part of the reason why the Bengals were in that situation was because they gave Willie the hometown "reward" extension. Few teams will sign a guy his age to a long term extension, but Mike Brown is known for being loyal to his own guys, so he decided to reward Willie for his past service. The problem is that the reward still counts against the salary cap. They probably should have told Willie that if he wants to remain with the team, they'd be willing to sign him year to year like they were doing with Braham, but a long term deal at his age is not in the cards. Add to that the failure to do anything on defense and they get trapped in a position where they can't resign a very useful guy like Steinbach and have to franchise a role player like Smith, when they should be signing Steinbach and letting Smith go.

I think the Bengals should spend more money on defense, but they've also spent poorly on defense, signing some role players on the DL to starter contracts and franchising Smith, who really needs to be on a line with better players to excel. He's not a guy who carries a defense, but could be better if there were someone else there who could. They also need to free up some money by letting a DB or two go. On offense, I'd probably drop Rudi and Big Willie and see if guys like Carson and Chad wouldn't be willing to renegotiate their salaries to have a lower cap hit so that they can improve the defense. These guys already have the signing bonuses on their current contracts, so I think you need to play the cap card, telling them "Hey, we need cap space to sign some solid defensive help. Can you help out?"

Benihana
01-29-2008, 10:05 AM
I've been a huge Chad fan in the past. And for most of this offseason, I've been a staunch opponent of trading him. However this last episode is pretty inexcusable. For those of you that missed it, when asked directly by the NFL Network yesterday if he would be wearing Orange and Black next year, he said, "Orange and Teal maybe. It's enough already, let's get this done. Parcells, call me man."

To me, this is the last straw. The Dolphins are reportedly interested in Hue Jackson for their Offensive Coordinator. Chad wants to play for him, and return to his hometown. At this point, much like with Corey Dillon or Takeo Spikes, you gotta get him out of here. There is talk that Miami is planning on trading the #1 overall pick to Dallas for two late first round picks (so that Jerry Jones can take McFadden.) They also have the first pick in the second round.

I say trade Chad to Miami for one of their late first round picks, plus the first pick of the second round. Draft Sedrick Ellis or Vernon Gholston (if Ellis is off the board) with the #9 overall, then go after someone like Keith Rivers or Derrick Harvery (or Dan Connor). Then with Miami's second round pick, draft Fred Davis the TE out of USC, who will help fill the hole left by Chad in the pass receiving game. Then you still have the #9 pick in the second round to continue to address the defense (or maybe the O-line.)

While I wouldn't mind trading Chad for the #1 overall (and taking Glenn Dorsey), its unrealistic because of the salary cap hit we would take in trading Chad and then paying out #1 overall money. Plus, I'm not sure that Miami would do that deal.

Bengals Add:

DT Sedrick Ellis (or DE Gholston)
LB Keith Rivers (or DE Harvery or LB Connor)
TE Fred Davis
(plus someone with the Bengals second round pick)

Bengals Lose:
WR Chad Johnson

I'm a big Chad fan but enough is enough. If a guy really doesn't want to be here, it's just going to be a cancer for the team. I think the Bengals would be better off with the above changes, especially factoring in Chad's attitude.

Joseph
01-29-2008, 10:15 AM
Chad would not net a first round pick. Maybe, and its a big maybe, a 2nd rounder.

If I was a betting man though I'd say he gets nothing more than a 3rd rounder, plus a late pick 6 or 7.

His attitude and contract work against him netting a huge return.

Bip Roberts
01-29-2008, 10:17 AM
Bengals arent getting the Dolphins 1st rounder but it would be nice.

Hes talking to the Miami media and its Chad Johnson. Its just how Chad ticks.

Benihana
01-29-2008, 10:31 AM
Bengals arent getting the Dolphins 1st rounder but it would be nice.

Hes talking to the Miami media and its Chad Johnson. Its just how Chad ticks.

Not the #1 overall but they could get a late first round pick. If Wes Welker and Chris Chambers net second rounders, Chad would get a first, albeit a late first. The guy has led the AFC in receiving yards for four consecutive years (the only player in NFL history to do that) and he has never been in trouble with the law or had injury concerns. If he can't get at least Miami's second round pick, then I don't trade him to Miami. Period.

Bip Roberts
01-29-2008, 10:40 AM
Hes not going to be traded anyways :o

Screwball
01-29-2008, 11:04 AM
While I wouldn't mind trading Chad for the #1 overall (and taking Glenn Dorsey), its unrealistic because of the salary cap hit we would take in trading Chad and then paying out #1 overall money. Plus, I'm not sure that Miami would do that deal.


Bingo. I think that's the #1 reason he won't be traded. From Geoff Hobson:



For one thing, the salary cap hit would be too big for 2008, probably close to $5 million. The Bengals would have to absorb the count for three bonuses: the $10.5 million option bonus with his first extension in 2003, plus the $5 million bonus for '06 and the $3.5 million option bonus for '07 that came with the second extension in 2006.


Yes, these latest comments from Chad aggravate me, too. For someone who loves to talk as much as he does (in jest or not), it's amazing how sensitive he gets when the tables are turned. However, he's too dang good and the cap hit would be way too severe to make any sort of Chad trade practical.

macro
01-29-2008, 01:21 PM
Any player that would openly declare his preference for wearing a different uniform really should not be on the roster, regardless of talent. But then there's the reality of the cap space and the "baby with the bathwater" aspect of it all...

I will be glad when it's practical to send him packing, though. I'm sick of his antics.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-29-2008, 01:24 PM
Any player that would openly declare his preference for wearing a different uniform really should not be on the roster, regardless of talent. But then there's the reality of the cap space and the "baby with the bathwater" aspect of it all...

I will be glad when it's practical to send him packing, though. I'm sick of his antics.

Agree. Shut the heck up and catch the passes thrown to you.

WMR
01-29-2008, 01:28 PM
I guess Cedric is cool with this statement as well?

I find it absolutely deplorable.

Ahhhorsepoo
01-29-2008, 01:32 PM
TJ is too slow to be a 1.. henry might get arrested tomorrow for all i know.. if we trade chad we MUST get a WR in the first or second round.. as much as i love TJ he is no 1 receiver.. he is a good slot guy, and just straight in traffic over the middle guy.. but he will never be the over the top streak threat that chad is.. too slow.. Henry has the talent to be.. but doesnt have the drive or determination.. and the rest of the receivers are just underdeveloped versions of TJ.. good slot guys nothing more..

macro
01-29-2008, 01:38 PM
I think this article is relevant to a discussion of Chad Johnson...


Giants turn Super minus Barber's dissonant chorus: me, me, me

Jan. 29, 2008
By Mike Freeman
CBSSports.com National Columnist

PHOENIX -- A question: How does a team lose a star player -- a borderline Hall of Famer, one of the best talents in the history of the New York Giants -- and get better?

When that player is Me-ki Barber, the answer is easy.

"Tiki was all about Tiki," said a key Giants player, who asked not to be identified, speaking recently about the former Giants runner. "I don't get why people make this so complicated. If he was still on the team, we wouldn't be here (in the Super Bowl). Trust me on that. It would be a different locker room."

By different the player means more splintered, more finger pointing, less unified.

By different, he means worse.

"It's not a coincidence that he's gone and we're here," the player said. "You're a fool if you think it is."

And if you fail to believe that a significant number of Giants veterans aren't privately chuckling at that coincidence and even mocking Barber now, behind his back, you're a fool, too, because they are.

Less Me-ki, they say, means more wins.

Harsh?

Maybe, but that is what more than a few Giants players feel and state privately. In fairness, not everyone in that locker room and around the team agrees. Ernie Accorsi, former Giants general manager who mostly built this current team and knows Barber well, was asked if he believes the Giants are better off without Me-ki.

"My answer is the same as it is to people who say the same thing about (Jeremy) Shockey," said Accorsi, who drafted Shockey, in an e-mail to CBSSports.com. "You are never better off when you lose great players."

He added: "I will say this. The balance that (running backs) Jacobs and Bradshaw give the running game is a key ingredient of this success. I love two backs (that) are different in style to throw at a defense."

That is indeed part of the reason the Giants running game didn't suffer dramatically, if at all, when Me-ki took his talent and self-centeredness into retirement last season. The Giants have joined a number of other teams relying on a multi-faceted rushing attack. The varying styles of a punisher and quick back can keep a defense on its heels. The Giants this season mastered that process.

Basically, Bradshaw and Jacobs have combined to do what Barber did, except Bradshaw and Jacobs aren't camera-hogging jerks.

The success of the Giants minus Me-ki goes beyond the X's and O's. It's also about exes and ho's.

First, Giants players are treating Barber like he's an ex-girlfriend. More than a few players on the team want to prove they can be successful without him and that Barber's departure was his loss, not theirs.

Second, Barber was a media ho'. He didn't know how to step back and let quarterback Eli Manning be one of the main presences and a spokesman for the offense.

Third, and most important, the absence of Barber -- and to some degree Shockey -- has allowed Manning to mature and become the leader of the team. This is not a new thought, but it is likely the most accurate one in explaining New York's surprising success.

Imagine you're Eli. No longer is Shockey gyrating like Elvis and complaining if a pass doesn't go his way or is errantly thrown. No longer is Me-ki undermining you in the locker room.

Wouldn't you get better? Wouldn't you feel more comfortable? Wouldn't you grow?

The past dynamics and ego-sautéing in that Giants locker room are among the most fascinating I've ever seen. Many in the New York media felt Barber was a good guy, and another strong personality in the room, Michael Strahan, was a bad guy. In fact, the opposite was true. What some have long failed to realize is that teammates love Strahan while most Giants players, in my opinion, only tolerated Barber.

People had misidentified their villains.

So, a question, indeed: How does a team lose a star player -- a borderline Hall of Famer, one of the best talents in the history of the New York Giants -- and get better?

Much better.

Make it to the Super Bowl better.

The answer: You say goodbye to Me-ki and never look back.

WMR
01-29-2008, 01:47 PM
I think this article is relevant to a discussion of Chad Johnson...

:clap:

BuckeyeRedleg
01-29-2008, 02:11 PM
Interesting article on Barber. "Me-ki" is thrown around so much, you wonder if the author (Freeman) had a bad experience with him. My guess is he probably did.

Those quotes from an unidentified player seem convenient too. Of course, if this is the same Mike Freeman that took part in the OSU witch-hunt a few years ago, this doesn't surprise me.

I do get the gist of the article and how it relates to CJ, and agree with the implication that sometimes ridding yourself of the cancer may make your team less talented individually, but better collectively. I just think the whole Tiki Barber thing is pretty weak and the Giants should be past that by now.

WMR
01-29-2008, 02:16 PM
I don't see why. Tiki certainly wouldn't let THEM get past it when it served his interests to keep on acting like an ass.

Benihana
01-29-2008, 02:37 PM
Here's a post I made to another audience, describing in detail what my (realistic) offseason strategy would be for the Bengals going forward. Some of it's relevant, some of it's repetitive (it includes my Chad philosophy,) some of it's not, but I thought I'd offer it anyway. Here goes:

--
First, no way do we take a tackle in the first round. If they feel that Willie is truly finished, then they re-sign Stacy Andrews (even though he'll get a lot of money.) They absolutely have to draft defense in the first round.

While I would LOVE to sign Haynesworth or Suggs, you gotta remember we're talking about Mike Brown and the Bengals here, so I don't think you can count on that.

So that leaves us with what we've got, and although I've always been a staunch defender of Chad and keeping him around, his comments yesterday finally got to me. Not sure if you got to see it, but after already asking for a trade to ESPN radio and the NFL Network, a reporter yesterday asked him if he'd be wearing orange and black next year. His response? "Orange and teal maybe. We gotta do something about this. Parcells, call me man, we can work this out." I've had enough. He's now approaching Takeo/Dillon territory, and I think we need to get him out of here before the cancer starts to spread. All reports seem to indicate that Miami is leaning towards trading their #1 overall pick to Dallas for two late first rounders (22 and 29)and a second or third rounder, so Jerry Jones can take his fellow Razorback McFadden. While I'd love to trade CJ for the #1 overall and take Dorsey, that's not gonna happen for several reasons.

So assuming the Miami/Dallas deal goes through, I offer CJ to Miami for the Cowboys second first round pick (29 overall) and Miami's second round pick (32 overall). That would leave the Bengals with the following picks: 9,29,32,40. Here's who I'd like to target:

9: Ellis, Gholston, Phillips (in that order)
I want Ellis first for sure, and think he still may be there. If not him then Gholston, and if not Gholston then Phillips. I doubt Madieu re-signs with us, Dexter's washed up, and while I like the rookies you cannot count on both of them to start. Phillips isn't quite as good as fellow 'Canes Taylor or Reed, but he's only a small step down- and I'll take that.

29: Derrick Harvey, Keith Rivers, Dan Connor, Kentwaan Balmer
Harvey replaces Justin Smith as a real pass-rushing end to complement Geathers on the other side. Take him if you didn't draft Gholston earlier, although he'll probably be gone. Rivers is the best backer in the draft and could fall down here with a bad combine (it's a weak draft for linebackers) but it's also a big leap of faith. I don't love Connor, but you take him if you're not confident in Odell's return (which they should have a good idea of by then.) Otherwise, you're left with Kentwaan Balmer, the underachieving DT from UNC, who would be an ok consolation if Ellis was off the board at #9. He could be solid playing alongside Peko for years to come.

32: Fred Davis
You gotta take Fred Davis here, the TE from USC. He would fit in nicely and help cushion the blow to the passing game felt by Chad's departure. There are questions about his blocking, but you still have Reggie Kelley for running situations. If you aren't enamored with any of the choices available at 29, you take Davis there and worry about 32 later. If all the above guys are gone, Ali Highsmith or Quentin Groves would be the fallback options.

40: Finally, with the Bengals' original second round choice, you are finally afforded the luxury of evaluating your earlier picks and taking the best player available considering what holes you've already filled. Whether that is another defender, an offensive lineman, or a wide receiver who has dropped for whatever reason (like DeSean Jackson or Mario Manningham), you take the best player available that fills an area of need.

While having four picks in the top 40 would surely cost some serious money, the cap hit wouldn't be as big as taking a Top 5 guy. Plus, to help soften the salary cap hit, I cut Rudi this offseason, and hope that someone can emerge out of the Perry/Irons/Watson/Dorsey pack. That would be my strategy going forward.

Yachtzee
01-29-2008, 05:20 PM
If Chad actually said that, them Marvin Lewis needs to get him on speed dial and tell him:

"Listen Chad. You are here to play for the Bengals and the Bengals fans, not the media. I know the media threw you under the bus this season and it hurt. But they're going to do that whether you play in Cincinnati, Miami, Dallas, Washington or wherever. It's time for you to man up and get over it. You signed an extension with a big signing bonus and a big cap number. So unless you want to pay the Bengals back a lot of money, there isn't going to be a trade. Instead of talking to the media that threw you under the bus, settle down and get to work preparing for next season because we need you. If you don't want to be on the team, you can always take a vacation Thurman-style."

Yachtzee
01-29-2008, 05:23 PM
With Chad's cap number, there is no way he's going to be traded. I don't even know why people bother speculating about it because it won't happen. The Bengals don't eat large cap numbers. So unless Rosenhaus can find some loophole that allows the Bengals to recover the cap space they'll blow trading Chad, he's not going anywhere. Even if he's a major pain in the butt next year, Mike Brown will keep him on the team like he did Pickens and Dillon until he has a manageable cap number.

GAC
01-29-2008, 09:01 PM
If Chad actually said that, them Marvin Lewis needs to get him on speed dial and tell him:

"Listen Chad. You are here to play for the Bengals and the Bengals fans, not the media. I know the media threw you under the bus this season and it hurt. But they're going to do that whether you play in Cincinnati, Miami, Dallas, Washington or wherever. It's time for you to man up and get over it. You signed an extension with a big signing bonus and a big cap number. So unless you want to pay the Bengals back a lot of money, there isn't going to be a trade. Instead of talking to the media that threw you under the bus, settle down and get to work preparing for next season because we need you. If you don't want to be on the team, you can always take a vacation Thurman-style."

I agree; but do you think Marvin will do that? I don't.

And concerning the "media threw him under the bus" .....

Why does he continue to get back up and stand in front of that bus (i.e. seek out and speak to the media)? The media carries a two-edged sword. A player, regardless of who it is, has no problem trying to use that same media to promote himself; but it's not suppose to be the other way when he says or does something controversial? They are not suppose to report that? And if they do, it's seen as "going after him"?

Why does he continue to say controversial statements, such as this, to the media when he knows it's going to be plastered all over the place and possibly cause hard feelings and maybe controversy?

Again - I think he is his own worst enemy.

The Bengals aren't going to trade him though, and for the obvious reasons stated above. The Bengals will do what is best for the Bengals, and rightly so.

Yachtzee
01-29-2008, 09:41 PM
I agree; but do you think Marvin will do that? I don't.

And concerning the "media threw him under the bus" .....

Why does he continue to get back up and stand in front of that bus (i.e. seek out and speak to the media)? The media carries a two-edged sword. A player, regardless of who it is, has no problem trying to use that same media to promote himself; but it's not suppose to be the other way when he says or does something controversial? They are not suppose to report that? And if they do, it's seen as "going after him"?

Why does he continue to say controversial statements, such as this, to the media when he knows it's going to be plastered all over the place and possibly cause hard feelings and maybe controversy?

Again - I think he is his own worst enemy.

The Bengals aren't going to trade him though, and for the obvious reasons stated above. The Bengals will do what is best for the Bengals, and rightly so.

Yeah, I don't really understand why he running to the media when they're only going to throw it in his face if next year doesn't go well. Obviously he doesn't people looking out for his best interests, because I'm sure they would tell him that the time for being upset about this stuff is past and it's now time to move on and prepare for next season. I've been hoping against hope his previous comments were driven by frustration, something I can understand. By continuing down the TO route, all he's doing is alienating those fans who have supported him, myself included.

Screwball
01-29-2008, 10:46 PM
YouTube link to the quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TebMvv2JRnk

I don't know about all this. It's tough to tell if he was serious or not. I know Miami is his hometown and all, but if Chad really was lobbying for a trade via the media, I'd think he'd ask for a team whose QB isn't Cleo-freaking-Lemon.

macro
01-29-2008, 11:34 PM
By continuing down the TO route, all he's doing is alienating those fans who have supported him, myself included.

I defended Chad until this season.

Cedric
01-30-2008, 01:11 AM
Here's a post I made to another audience, describing in detail what my (realistic) offseason strategy would be for the Bengals going forward. Some of it's relevant, some of it's repetitive (it includes my Chad philosophy,) some of it's not, but I thought I'd offer it anyway. Here goes:

--
First, no way do we take a tackle in the first round. If they feel that Willie is truly finished, then they re-sign Stacy Andrews (even though he'll get a lot of money.) They absolutely have to draft defense in the first round.

While I would LOVE to sign Haynesworth or Suggs, you gotta remember we're talking about Mike Brown and the Bengals here, so I don't think you can count on that.

So that leaves us with what we've got, and although I've always been a staunch defender of Chad and keeping him around, his comments yesterday finally got to me. Not sure if you got to see it, but after already asking for a trade to ESPN radio and the NFL Network, a reporter yesterday asked him if he'd be wearing orange and black next year. His response? "Orange and teal maybe. We gotta do something about this. Parcells, call me man, we can work this out." I've had enough. He's now approaching Takeo/Dillon territory, and I think we need to get him out of here before the cancer starts to spread. All reports seem to indicate that Miami is leaning towards trading their #1 overall pick to Dallas for two late first rounders (22 and 29)and a second or third rounder, so Jerry Jones can take his fellow Razorback McFadden. While I'd love to trade CJ for the #1 overall and take Dorsey, that's not gonna happen for several reasons.

So assuming the Miami/Dallas deal goes through, I offer CJ to Miami for the Cowboys second first round pick (29 overall) and Miami's second round pick (32 overall). That would leave the Bengals with the following picks: 9,29,32,40. Here's who I'd like to target:

9: Ellis, Gholston, Phillips (in that order)
I want Ellis first for sure, and think he still may be there. If not him then Gholston, and if not Gholston then Phillips. I doubt Madieu re-signs with us, Dexter's washed up, and while I like the rookies you cannot count on both of them to start. Phillips isn't quite as good as fellow 'Canes Taylor or Reed, but he's only a small step down- and I'll take that.

29: Derrick Harvey, Keith Rivers, Dan Connor, Kentwaan Balmer
Harvey replaces Justin Smith as a real pass-rushing end to complement Geathers on the other side. Take him if you didn't draft Gholston earlier, although he'll probably be gone. Rivers is the best backer in the draft and could fall down here with a bad combine (it's a weak draft for linebackers) but it's also a big leap of faith. I don't love Connor, but you take him if you're not confident in Odell's return (which they should have a good idea of by then.) Otherwise, you're left with Kentwaan Balmer, the underachieving DT from UNC, who would be an ok consolation if Ellis was off the board at #9. He could be solid playing alongside Peko for years to come.

32: Fred Davis
You gotta take Fred Davis here, the TE from USC. He would fit in nicely and help cushion the blow to the passing game felt by Chad's departure. There are questions about his blocking, but you still have Reggie Kelley for running situations. If you aren't enamored with any of the choices available at 29, you take Davis there and worry about 32 later. If all the above guys are gone, Ali Highsmith or Quentin Groves would be the fallback options.

40: Finally, with the Bengals' original second round choice, you are finally afforded the luxury of evaluating your earlier picks and taking the best player available considering what holes you've already filled. Whether that is another defender, an offensive lineman, or a wide receiver who has dropped for whatever reason (like DeSean Jackson or Mario Manningham), you take the best player available that fills an area of need.

While having four picks in the top 40 would surely cost some serious money, the cap hit wouldn't be as big as taking a Top 5 guy. Plus, to help soften the salary cap hit, I cut Rudi this offseason, and hope that someone can emerge out of the Perry/Irons/Watson/Dorsey pack. That would be my strategy going forward.

I'm not sure Chad should try and stay around this team. It's being quoted widely now by radio guys that 80% of the Bengals clubhouse blames the Wr's for any miscommunication between Carson and the Wr's. It seems that in the press we only hear of how this team has two teams in the clubhouse. Is that the fault of Chad and Tj or the fault of jealous players who don't get the publicity that they do? Is that a fault of Marvin for not understanding his star players like Sparky did?
I'm not saying that I would absolve Chad and Tj of all blame, but it doesn't bode well for this team that Marvin has seemingly allowed this seperation to occur. It doesn't help when he makes public comments about Chad and TJ. I don't understand why Chad is being ripped so bad in this city for being disgusted at how quick people want to make scapegoats for the failure of others (Marvin and the FO I am looking at you). I just get sick of the same tired routine that we hear from the media when the teams in this town are losing. It's never the fault of the organization and always the fault of a few rogue players. I clearly remember Ken Griffey Jr and Barry Larkin being ripped publicly by several players and the media in 2001 for supposedly separating from the rest of the team. Writers like John Fay and Marc Curnette are always going to blame the players and not blame the organization. And I think this board is proof that fans will always lean with the organization on most matters and against the best players. Hell, these two organizations have a recent track record of complete failure and yet they are still above reproach from some posters.

bucksfan2
01-30-2008, 08:34 AM
Its amazing the difference in perception between two cincinnati athletes. Over Bronson's two seasons with the reds there have been countless references to how much he loved playing in and for Boston. He lives in Boston and sings in Boston about how he wants to return there. Most people tend to write that off as nothing. Chad on the other hand every grips and clings to every last word of his as the absolute truth.

Yachtzee
01-30-2008, 08:47 AM
Its amazing the difference in perception between two cincinnati athletes. Over Bronson's two seasons with the reds there have been countless references to how much he loved playing in and for Boston. He lives in Boston and sings in Boston about how he wants to return there. Most people tend to write that off as nothing. Chad on the other hand every grips and clings to every last word of his as the absolute truth.

I think people can somewhat sympathize with Bronson Arroyo because he's simply stating a desire to one day go back to a place where he loved to live and play. I think many of us who have moved around in our lives for work or family reasons dream of one day being able to return to a city we love. But Bronson doesn't go on and on about how people in Cincinnati don't have his back.

What has begun rubbing me the wrong way with Chad Johnson is that he keeps talking to the media about wanting to leave not because he was treated poorly by the fans or his teammates, but because he was treated poorly by the media. Sure Daugherty wrote a mean article about him, but a lot of that "Trade Chad" stuff was coming from the national media. Yet he seems perfectly willing run to the media that hurt him and alienate the fans who have been sticking up for him. It's not the fans that want you traded, Chad. It's the media.

GAC
01-30-2008, 09:00 AM
I'm not saying that I would absolve Chad and Tj of all blame, but it doesn't bode well for this team that Marvin has seemingly allowed this seperation to occur. It doesn't help when he makes public comments about Chad and TJ.

I agree Cedric, and have stated the above in the past. Marvin Lewis has not helped this situation at all, and IMHO, at times, appears to be playing both sides of the fence.

If there are issues, then in front of the media is not the place to settle them. Yet that is where both these guys (Marvin and Chad) play to. It can only compound things.

Chip R
01-30-2008, 09:29 AM
Its amazing the difference in perception between two cincinnati athletes. Over Bronson's two seasons with the reds there have been countless references to how much he loved playing in and for Boston. He lives in Boston and sings in Boston about how he wants to return there. Most people tend to write that off as nothing. Chad on the other hand every grips and clings to every last word of his as the absolute truth.


Every time Bronson even says the word, "Boston" especially in his first season here, people jumped on his case and believed that he'd never sign long term here because the first minute he was a free agent he'd go running back to Beantown. Even now, he mentioned in a song that he'd like to play in Boston. The reality is that he's not going anywhere whether he wants to or not.

As for Chad, I'd love for him to go to Miami. Of course I'm biased since I'm a Dolphins fan. I didn't hear the intrerview but it could be that he was just joking but if he were serious, could you blame him? It's bad form to request a trade through the media but if he was serious what's done is done. If he's serious, you certainly can't blame him for wanting to leave somewhere where he's been blamed for the team's failures, called "selfish" and a "cancer". Earlier in the season it was rumored that the Bengals were trying to trade him. The Bengals didn't deny it. That exactly doesn't make a guy feel wanted.

macro
01-30-2008, 01:12 PM
Its amazing the difference in perception between two cincinnati athletes. Over Bronson's two seasons with the reds there have been countless references to how much he loved playing in and for Boston. He lives in Boston and sings in Boston about how he wants to return there. Most people tend to write that off as nothing. Chad on the other hand every grips and clings to every last word of his as the absolute truth.

I think you have to consider the entire body of work. Bronson hasn't chewed out his manager in the dugout during a game, or argued with one of his fielders as they came off the field after making an error. There's no halftime in baseball, but he's never done the equivalent of disrupting the locker room at halftime of a playoff game in which the team was leading, to the point of allegedly having to be restrained.

If Chad had made the Dolphins comment a few years ago, many of us would have defended it as "Chad just being Chad". But his other antics, coupled with crucial mental mistakes (running out of bounds on fourth down, etc), dropped passes on third down, and wrong pass routes, kinda doesn't leave him much wiggle room in many people's minds. At some point there is a straw that breaks the camel's back. Chad has piled several straws on already.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-30-2008, 01:19 PM
bucksfan, I think you are reaching there with the comparison between Bronson and CJ.

CTA513
01-30-2008, 02:08 PM
If Bronson did it to the extent that Chad is doing it then people would be just as mad.

bucksfan2
01-30-2008, 02:30 PM
I think you have to consider the entire body of work. Bronson hasn't chewed out his manager in the dugout during a game, or argued with one of his fielders as they came off the field after making an error. There's no halftime in baseball, but he's never done the equivalent of disrupting the locker room at halftime of a playoff game in which the team was leading, to the point of allegedly having to be restrained.

If Chad had made the Dolphins comment a few years ago, many of us would have defended it as "Chad just being Chad". But his other antics, coupled with crucial mental mistakes (running out of bounds on fourth down, etc), dropped passes on third down, and wrong pass routes, kinda doesn't leave him much wiggle room in many people's minds. At some point there is a straw that breaks the camel's back. Chad has piled several straws on already.

Bronson has never been mad at a manager for pulling him when he wanted to pitch longer? Bronson has never left the dougout in disgust after seing the pen blow another lead? Bronson has been the team player and stayed in the dougout for the end of the game of every one of his starts?

Chad isn't perfect but from all the interviews he wants to win and wants to be in a place where people respect him and his abilities. Why would anyone want to play in a city where some of the media members are more interested about every one of your moves than they are about the product on the field?


bucksfan, I think you are reaching there with the comparison between Bronson and CJ.

How so? Bronson has admited publically that he wants to return to play in Boston and how much he loved the atmosphere there. Good lord if Chad had gone as far as Bronson did then all hell would break lose.

macro
01-30-2008, 03:40 PM
Bronson has never been mad at a manager for pulling him when he wanted to pitch longer? Bronson has never left the dougout in disgust after seing the pen blow another lead? Bronson has been the team player and stayed in the dougout for the end of the game of every one of his starts?


While I'm sure Arroyo has been mad and disgusted, just as most players have been at one time or another, I don't recall ever seeing him showing his behind on the field or in the dugout.

Again, I don't fault Chad for any one of those things, but rather the combination of things I mentioned.

And speaking of Arroyo, I haven't been amused by his comments about Boston, and said as much a little over a year ago...

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1215508&postcount=16

minus5
01-30-2008, 03:55 PM
And now there is this from Chad on Rome:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080130/SPT02/301300087/


Doing his best impersonation of former Bengals running back Corey Dillon, wide receiver Chad Johnson took his trade-me road show to the Super Bowl on Wednesday and told radio talk-show host Jim Rome that he wants out of Cincinnati.

The interview was similar to one Johnson did on ESPNís ďMike & Mike in the MorningĒ on Jan. 12.

On Tuesday, The Enquirerís Bengals blog linked to a recent clip from the NFL Network in which Johnson made a brief comment about the possibility of playing for his hometown Miami Dolphins.


Here is what Johnson said to Rome:

Question: Do you want to be traded?

Answer: Iím going to leave that to the Shark (Drew Rosenhaus, Johnsonís agent).

Q: Are you happy in Cincinnati?

A: Iím not allowed to say. I get the blame, the so-called best player, Iím the problem. Someone in-house is spreading this. Maybe they want me to quiet down (and) stop being me. That is not going to happen. I canít function that way. I tried it. It sucked. There was no excitement.

Q: Can they make it right with you?

A: I think I could be here all season long, on your show.

Q: Is it blown up or fixable?

A: Iím leaving that to Drew. Itís been bad (with the Bengals). Iím the scapegoat. A lot of stuff in-house is happening Iím not fond of. It doesnít sit well with me. I have fun. Iím a little outlandish. I produce. I do everything to help us win.

Q: Who does have your back?

A: T.J. (Houshmandzadeh) has my back. Carson (Palmer). Thatís it. Thatís really it.Ē

Johnson also expressed his unhappiness today on ESPN Radio's Mike Tirico Show.

Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis declined today to comment directly on Johnsonís radio interview.

He said he stood by comments he made Jan. 16 at a news conference that introduced Mike Zimmer as the Bengalsí new defensive coordinator.

ďHe didnít say anything different Ė that he was unduly chastised for being this or that,Ē Lewis said at that time. ďHeís going to go back and be a pro and go forward and play. As I said then, there will be no trade of Chad Johnson. Repeat it again.Ē

Johnson signed a contract extension that was negotiated by Rosenhaus in April 2006. Johnson remains under contract with the Bengals through 2011.

Johnson has declined to speak to Cincinnati-area reporters, save a paid weekly installment during the season on the local FOX TV affiliate, since October.

WMR
01-30-2008, 04:00 PM
Let me get my violin.

Someone call the Waaaaaaaaambulance.

minus5
01-30-2008, 04:15 PM
Let me get my violin.

Someone call the Waaaaaaaaambulance.

Exactly. If he is trying to paint himself as a sympathetic character, he's not doing a very good job. I've usually taken up for Chad in the past but he's being pretty ridiculous these days.

WMR
01-30-2008, 04:16 PM
Exactly. If he is trying to paint himself as a sympathetic character, he's not doing a very good job. I've usually taken up for Chad in the past but he's being pretty ridiculous these days.

And please Chad, keep bringing up Drew Rosenhaus, one of the most widely detested figures in all of sport. If anyone's on the fence, that'll be sure to get them on your side. :laugh:

Chad isn't just sounding like a big baby, he's coming across rather stupid as well.

Yachtzee
01-30-2008, 04:25 PM
Chad Johnson is giving the phrase "Keep on shoveling" a whole new meaning in Bengals lore.

Screwball
01-30-2008, 04:50 PM
Man, I've been arguably the biggest Chad defender on here, but even I think this has gotten to be too much. These trade demands via the media and ridiculous statements are really starting to piss me off. I'm not quite to the point where I want to get rid of him (yet), but I don't see how I can defend him any longer.

What a mess this is turning out to be...

Yachtzee
01-30-2008, 05:00 PM
Man, I've been arguably the biggest Chad defender on here, but even I think this has gotten to be too much. These trade demands via the media and ridiculous statements are really starting to piss me off. I'm not quite to the point where I want to get rid of him (yet), but I don't see how I can defend him any longer.

What a mess this is turning out to be...

With the cap hit the Bengals would take for trading him, I'd be perfectly happy if the Bengals just let him sit out until the cap hit becomes reasonable. At least then there's the chance that he wises up, fires Rosenhaus, apologizes, and gets back to the business of winning football games.

Screwball
01-30-2008, 05:35 PM
With the cap hit the Bengals would take for trading him, I'd be perfectly happy if the Bengals just let him sit out until the cap hit becomes reasonable.


Yeah, the cap hit will certainly be the sticking point no matter how big a fuss Chad makes. I was more just trying to point out that even as staunch a defender of keeping him as I was, I'm now to the point where I just can't do it anymore. His egocentric viewpoint on all this is getting very aggravating.



At least then there's the chance that he wises up, fires Rosenhaus, apologizes, and gets back to the business of winning football games.


A fine idea in theory. But given Chad's self-absorbed qualities, I'd say the only thing we can reasonably expect him to do is eventually get on the field and play to spite those he feels wronged him. I see no way he fires Rosenhaus, and no way in hell he actually apologizes, barring some epiphany after a three day journey in the woods in an attempt to find himself (;)). And now that we're dealing with a Chad Johnson who thinks only 2 players in the entire organization "have his back", who knows how divided the locker room might get.

What's funny is that listening to Chad, you'd think the whole organization, save his 2 best friends, were out to get him. John Thornton paints a much different picture in his blog (http://www.jt97.com/lounge/?cat=5):



More on CJ 85

January 12, 2008


After having a day to digest what Chad Johnson said on Friday morning, I think Chad is just venting all of his frustrations out from the long season. I’m not speaking for him, but I can tell he is hurting. In fact, one time this past season during a pre-practice stretch, myself, Justin Smith, and Bryan Robinson joked with Chad about being traded. This was right in the middle of all the trade rumors. We said something about Miami trading WR Chris Chambers away so they can get Chad in the offseason. Chad laughed but soon turned serious and said “those trade rumors hurt me.” He felt like all of the good he had did in this city was for nothing. Many of those who loved his persona previously, now turned against him. And he was right. He didn’t do anything differently this season, than in past years. But since we were losing early, people said his “act” was getting old. I think he was being unfairly judged.

I think it all started in the Patriots game when cameras caught CJ and Carson Palmer arguing after a 1st half INT. Chad thought he was right and Carson felt he was right. It was two guys going at it. Happens all the time. Now its a big story.

What happens from here? I think the Bengals can and will do one of two things. The first is to call Chad or have a face to face with Chad and find out what is going on with him. Find out what they can do to help him feel better about the team, the organization, and the city. Chad is going to be doing a lot of interviews in the coming weeks. He is very popular during Super Bowl weekend and all media outlets will be there looking for him to say something bigger than he already has. So the Bengals should squash it while it is pretty much a local story. The other choice the Bengals could make is to do nothing. Both Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown already said, albeit two months ago, Chad isn’t going anywhere. They can let him vent for a while and hope he comes back ready to go once the offseason program starts. They know Chad loves football and won’t holdout or miss any games. Stay tuned…..


I'd say he nailed that last paragraph...

Yachtzee
01-30-2008, 05:56 PM
Yeah, the cap hit will certainly be the sticking point no matter how big a fuss Chad makes. I was more just trying to point out that even as staunch a defender of keeping him as I was, I'm now to the point where I just can't do it anymore. His egocentric viewpoint on all this is getting very aggravating.



A fine idea in theory. But given Chad's self-absorbed qualities, I'd say the only thing we can reasonably expect him to do is eventually get on the field and play to spite those he feels wronged him. I see no way he fires Rosenhaus, and no way in hell he actually apologizes, barring some epiphany after a three day journey in the woods in an attempt to find himself (;)). And now that we're dealing with a Chad Johnson who thinks only 2 players in the entire organization "have his back", who knows how divided the locker room might get.

What's funny is that listening to Chad, you'd think the whole organization, save his 2 best friends, were out to get him. John Thornton paints a much different picture in his blog (http://www.jt97.com/lounge/?cat=5):



I'd say he nailed that last paragraph...

Oh, I agree with you. I've been one of those sticking up for CJ as well. I'll put up with the "look at me stuff" after touchdowns because I don't see much harm in it. There are plenty of players in the league who do that and get along perfectly well with the rest of the team. However, once you start actively campaigning to get out of town, especially after you signed a big extension with a big signing bonus, then you've crossed a line.

I'm actually surprised Chad is going down this path in light of the recent arbitrator's ruling against T.O.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3220008

I imagine that if the Eagles succeed in forcing TO to pay them back for his signing bonus, it will set a precedent the Bengals will most certainly use on Chad.

KoryMac5
01-30-2008, 06:15 PM
I think John Thorton hit it right on the head in his blog. Thanks for posting that Screwball it really gives people a good perspective at what is going on with Chad, and how the Bengals can go on from here.

Screwball
01-30-2008, 07:01 PM
No problem KM.

I also meant to post this entry that directly preceded Thornton's January 12th one, but got kinda mixed up. Anyway, here she blows:



January 11, 2008

After hearing Chad Johnson’s interview today on ESPN Radio, it is evident to me that he wants out of Cincinnati. Being a teammate of Chad’s, I can tell you that most of us supported him this past year. The reason I say most is because I can’t speak for everyone on the team. But the general vibe I got from players is that he was/is supported by us. There are probably some guys who didn’t agree with everything that he has ever done, but he is genuinely liked in the locker room. Come back tomorrow to read my take on why I think he really wants out. Sorry, but I have to get ready to go out to dinner now and I don’t think Jeff Ruby’s SteakHouse has wireless internet access.

Redhook
01-30-2008, 07:19 PM
I hope Chad realizes what he is doing because he will miss Cincy and Carson dearly, unless he lands in New England or Indy. I hope he comes to his senses after he's done venting and realizes that he needs to stay here.

Matt700wlw
01-30-2008, 07:29 PM
http://www.1530homer.com/pages/ctrent.html

Kevin Goheen tried to get something out of Chad...and he won't even talk to former local writers...





Chad keeps local silence
Wednesday 01-30-2008 7:18pm ET
Kevin Goheen is out in Phoenix for the Super Bowl, and apparently Chad Johnson's local media boycott includes unemployed former Cincinnati media types.

For someone who doesn't blame the fans or the media in Cincinnati, Chad doesn't seem to want to talk to 'em.



By Kevin Goheen
PHOENIX -- Offseason speculation concerning the future of Bengals wide receiver Chad Johnson continues to swirl at the site of Super Bowl XLII.

Making the rounds of radio row here on Wednesday, Johnson did little more than offer a wink-wink, nudge-nudge while denying he is attempting to get his release from the team.

Speaking on Sirius satellite radio's NFL Radio Johnson denied a report from Jay Glazer of Fox Sports that claimed Johnson has been angling to leave the Bengals, including approaching opposing coaches to ask for their help.

"Me? Me? Come on, you know I would do no such thing," Johnson said to Sirius hosts Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan. "How can I engineer anything like that? If anything they (the Bengals) engineered it. -- It started within, not with me."

Johnson made similar comments on other national shows but offered little more than "Hi" and "I'm fine" when approached by a Cincinnati-area reporter.

Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis stated at a press conference two weeks ago that Johnson would not be traded. Jack Brennan, Bengals director of public relations, reiterated on Wednesday that Lewis had made his position clear on the situation and that the team would have no further comment. Johnson is currently under contract with the Bengals through 2010 with the club owning an option for 2011.

Johnson, a native of South Florida, was interviewed by a Miami TV station last weekend and during the interview he looked into the camera and said: "Bill Parcells, call me." Parcells was hired in December to become executive vice president of football operations for the Miami Dolphins.

Johnson has not spoken on the record with Cincinnati-area media -- with the exception of a weekly segment on Fox19 (WXIX-TV) during the season in which he was compensated -- since the middle of October. Johnson was upset by a report from ESPN's Chris Mortensen that claimed that a source inside the organization told him the Bengals would look at the possibility of trading Johnson in the offseason. Johnson also believes he has received too much of the blame for the team's 7-9 season in 2007 and that not enough people in the organization came to his defense.

Johnson is due to make a base salary of $3 million and count $6.3 million against the Bengals salary cap next season. That cap number would be raised by $2.5 million if he were to be traded or released.

Fellow wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh is entering the final year of his contract in 2008. Houshmandzadeh earned his first Pro Bowl berth this season by tying for the NFL lead with 112 receptions. Houshmandzadeh is due to make $2.75 million in salary and bonuses this season and will be in line for a significant raise whether the Bengals are able to keep him off of the free agent market or not.

Both Johnson and Houshmandzadeh are well aware of the contract of Arizona wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald that is due to pay him $14.6 million next season after Fitzgerald reached several incentive clauses this past season. The Cardinals are attempting to sign Fitzgerald to a long-term deal that would greatly reduce his salary cap hit of $16.5 million in 2008.

Johnson caught 93 passes for a team-record 1,440 yards and eight touchdowns. His yardage total was good for fourth in the NFL and he led all wide receivers in the league with 76 first downs produced.

The Bengals signed Johnson to what amounted to a six-year extension in April 2006. They tore up a deal that then had four years remaining on it and replaced it with one that was worth $35.5 million, including $16 million in its first two seasons.

Both Johnson and agent Drew Rosenhaus were pleased with the deal at the time -- Rosenhaus claimed the deal made Johnson the highest paid wide receiver at the time and even praised the Bengals for their willingness to negotiate a new deal despite having four years remaining on the old one.

redsfan1966
01-30-2008, 07:34 PM
I am not a Bengals fan, however, it looks like all the talk I used to hear about Chad--"he just wants to have fun, he doesnt mean any harm" has taken an evil turn. I wouldnt touch Ocho Cinco with a ten foot pole now---he has become the cancer known as Terrell Owens

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 07:38 PM
I am not a Bengals fan, however, it looks like all the talk I used to hear about Chad--"he just wants to have fun, he doesnt mean any harm" has taken an evil turn. I wouldnt touch Ocho Cinco with a ten foot pole now---he has become the cancer known as Terrell Owens

Chad has done nothing like Owens has done and the comparison is a joke.

Matt700wlw
01-30-2008, 07:40 PM
Chad has done nothing like Owens has done and the comparison is a joke.

"The Shark" is certainly trying to turn him into another T.O.

WMR
01-30-2008, 07:41 PM
"The Shark" is certainly trying to turn him into another T.O.

Yeah. He is definitely heading down that path.

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 07:43 PM
"The Shark" is certainly trying to turn him into another T.O.

If you say so. Besides the fact that he isnt happy here I see zero comparison.

Matt700wlw
01-30-2008, 07:45 PM
This is more Drew's doing than Chad's.

Chad was plenty happy a year ago, and after he got his new deal.

redsfan1966
01-30-2008, 07:48 PM
Bip---glad to have made ya laugh..

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 07:50 PM
This is more Drew's doing than Chad's.

Chad was plenty happy a year ago, and after he got his new deal.

I think it has to do more with people in the cincy media flat out making stuff up trying to get readers and then pulling the "its just what i hear" card.

WMR
01-30-2008, 07:52 PM
I think it has to do more with people in the cincy media flat out making stuff up trying to get readers and then pulling the "its just what i hear" card.

So that gives him his excuse to act like an ass in front of the national media? What a joke.

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 07:54 PM
So that gives him his excuse to act like an ass in front of the national media? What a joke.

No. Chad needs to grow up and not get so bent when the media tries to make stuff up and be sensationalist.

WMR
01-30-2008, 07:55 PM
Of course. What kills me is people acting like Chad has it so bad from the Cincy media. I wish he could get a taste of the NYC media or the Philly media.

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 07:58 PM
Of course. What kills me is people acting like Chad has it so bad from the Cincy media. I wish he could get a taste of the NYC media or the Philly media.

I think the Cincy media tries to create news more than actually reporting it.

I cant stand when Lance or Doc pull the "What I hear" card. Its one thing to do it but if you want to be taken seriously you gotta give a little more than "a group of vets" or "an opposing player"

You dont have to name names but you can give a little more detail than that.

Yachtzee
01-30-2008, 07:59 PM
I think it has to do more with people in the cincy media flat out making stuff up trying to get readers and then pulling the "its just what i hear" card.

I would agree with you when it comes to the initial trade rumors. However, those started with Mortensen and the ESPN folks, not the locals. The local guys just ran with it and made a mountain out of a mole hill. However, it's hard to make stuff up when you have CJ on camera and on the radio talking about getting out. CJ needs to get over it and start focusing on next season.

This stuff he's pulling during Super Bowl week is seriously turning people off. Before this month, I had been considering buying a youth size CJ jersey for my son, to match my Palmer jersey. Now? Forget it. I don't want to invest any more effort in rooting for a guy who doesn't want to honor his contract and play for his team, and I certainly don't want my son believing that I approve such behavior.

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 08:01 PM
Chad didnt say anything until recent weeks. Cincy media tried to blow it up and wouldnt let it die even if nothing was said because their feelings were hurt because Chad wouldnt talk to them.

He didnt say he wanted traded or anything at all during the season.

Honestly he still hasnt said he wanted to be traded.

WVRed
01-30-2008, 08:15 PM
Chad didnt say anything until recent weeks. Cincy media tried to blow it up and wouldnt let it die even if nothing was said because their feelings were hurt because Chad wouldnt talk to them.

He didnt say he wanted traded or anything at all during the season.

Honestly he still hasnt said he wanted to be traded.

I think outside of saying "Please Trade Me", I think saying "Orange and Teal" instead of Orange and Black would pretty well qualify as a trade demand.

Matt700wlw
01-30-2008, 08:17 PM
Cleo Lemon or Carson Palmer....


Hmmmmm....wow......I can't decide...

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 08:26 PM
I think outside of saying "Please Trade Me", I think saying "Orange and Teal" instead of Orange and Black would pretty well qualify as a trade demand.

He hasnt said he didnt want to be a Bengal though. To demand a trade would mean that he doesnt want to be here.

He has never said he wanted traded. According to Thorton he actually said it hurts him that people think he was demanding trades.

I think he feels more like the team doesnt want him more than he doesnt want the team.

He needs to grow up and learn how to handle it better.

WMR
01-30-2008, 08:27 PM
He didn't tell Bill Parcells to "call him"???

:confused:

Stop trying to spin it, Bip. It is what it is.

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 08:29 PM
He didn't tell Bill Parcells to "call him"???

:confused:

Stop trying to spin it, Bip. It is what it is.

Yes he did but he also was talking to Miami media and I also could just write that off as Chad trying to self promote like he always does.

He might want out but he hasnt gone as far as demanding it or saying its inevitable. Maybe I just perceive it a little differently.

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 08:35 PM
I think its more about a new contract and that he feels betrayed by the organization for allowing the media grumblings to grow with out any response than actually wanting traded.

Get him a new deal and he will shut his little mouth and be happy chad again.

RFS62
01-30-2008, 08:38 PM
Now if there's a smile on my face,
it's only there tryin' to fool the public,
but when it comes down to foolin' you;
Now honey, that's quite a different subject.
But don't let my glad expression
give you the wrong impression.
Really I'm sad.
I'm sadder than sad.
You're gone and I'm hurtin' so bad.
Like a clown I pretend to be glad.
(chorus)
Now there's some sad things known to man,
but ain't too much sadder than
the tears of a clown
when there's no one around.
Now if I appear to be carefree,
it's only to camouflage my sadness.
In order to keep my pride I try
to cover the hurt with a show of gladness.
But don't let my show convince you
that I've been happy since you
decided to go.
Oh, I need you so.
I'm hurt and I want you to know.
(chorus)
Just like Pagliacci did,
I try to keep my sadness hid.
But in my lonely room I cry
the tears of a clown
when there's no one around.