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HokieRed
01-13-2008, 12:48 AM
Reports are that Kyle Lohse is bringing down his contract demands, maybe to 9 a year for 4 years. I wonder if anybody thinks a $36 million for four years for Lohse would be worth while for the Reds. According to Dougdirt's stats posted a while back on the redsminorleagues.com site, Lohse was almost a perfect league average #3 last year. He'd strengthen the rotation for 2008 and give us some time to evaluate Bailey, Cueto, Maloney, Volquez (and any others). If the young uns get good enough by 2009 or 2010, Lohse could be moved. If they get really good, Lohse could provide insurance while we move Arroyo. He'd also open up the possibility of a move of Belisle. 2008: Harang, Arroyo, Lohse, Belisle, one of Bailey, Volquez, Cueto, Maloney etc. (or more if they prove up to the task). Best possible scenario for 2009: Harang, Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, Maloney, with Lohse, Arroyo, and Belisle all available to be moved. It's likely that wouldn't quite be possible, but we might well be able to move 1 or 2 of those 3.

mroby85
01-13-2008, 12:55 AM
Reports are that Kyle Lohse is bringing down his contract demands, maybe to 9 a year for 4 years. I wonder if anybody thinks a $36 million for four years for Lohse would be worth while for the Reds.


ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

captainmorgan07
01-13-2008, 12:57 AM
no no no no no. been there done that and we sure aint going back to kyle lohse.

HokieRed
01-13-2008, 01:39 AM
Which one of the free agent possibilities would you rather have than Lohse--Lieber, Livan, Tomko, Benson? Lohse would make us better in 2008 and be someone we could move as early as 2009, unless we decided to move somebody else because of flexibility Lohse would give us. Assuming we make no other deal for a pitcher, does Lohse make us more or less likely to win the Central in 2008?

AdamDunn
01-13-2008, 01:42 AM
Which one of the free agent possibilities would you rather have than Lohse--Lieber, Livan, Tomko, Benson? Lohse would make us better in 2008 and be someone we could move as early as 2009, unless we decided to move somebody else because of flexibility Lohse would give us. Assuming we make no other deal for a pitcher, does Lohse make us more or less likely to win the Central in 2008?

Lohse doesn't make us better. I think Bailey and Volquez can do better for less money. The problem with Lohse is he's inconsistent. He's six and an occasional seven innings of good baseball or he's three or four innings of God awful baseball. I'd rather have Livan, who will probably be cheaper than Lohse. I don't like signing any of those SP to more than a one year deal with a second option year.

AmarilloRed
01-13-2008, 01:51 AM
Mlbtraderumors.com recently suggested it could be 3 years, 36 million dollars. It might be better to sign an available Sp free agent in 2009, as there will be better starting pitchers available then.

mroby85
01-13-2008, 02:33 AM
i would rather have a cheap weakness than an expensive one, and then you could carry that money into next offseason and hope there is actually someone worth dropping it on. there is no way i would just give it away because there is no one better right now.

adampad
01-13-2008, 05:58 PM
I alway thought Loshe was underrated. He has a lot of talent, and is a very good pitcher when he's on. He's worth about $7 mill a year I guess to a team like the Reds. But I'm sure he can and will get more from elsewhere. Without looking, at his stats and age I'm guessing he is starting to hit his peak years. I won't be surprised if he has a really good 4-5 years ahead of him.

BigRed
01-13-2008, 06:18 PM
NO, does the name Eric Milton ring any bells? Signing Lohse for that money would be similar.

SMcGavin
01-13-2008, 06:38 PM
Would love Lohse at $10M/1 yr, but no way would I do that rate for three years. I think he's a candidate for some motivation problems once he gets a big contract.

He would certainly make us better though, thinking Bailey and Volquez are better than him right now is crazy IMO. Lohse is the best FA starter out there.

bounty37h
01-14-2008, 01:21 PM
Which one of the free agent possibilities would you rather have than Lohse--Lieber, Livan, Tomko, Benson? Lohse would make us better in 2008 and be someone we could move as early as 2009, unless we decided to move somebody else because of flexibility Lohse would give us. Assuming we make no other deal for a pitcher, does Lohse make us more or less likely to win the Central in 2008?

Didnt we think that going into last year, and what came of that? I think it is in both parties best interests to avoid this one. I would hope we wouldnt consider him, and I would hope after his season here last year, his pride wouldnt allow him to come back.

Z-Fly
01-14-2008, 01:57 PM
Mlbtraderumors.com recently suggested it could be 3 years, 36 million dollars. It might be better to sign an available Sp free agent in 2009, as there will be better starting pitchers available then.

It seems like I hear that every year. Do you have any reason to think that? Or are you just saying that because it couldn't possibly be worse than this year's crop of free agent pitchers?

Bip Roberts
01-14-2008, 02:01 PM
It seems like I hear that every year. Do you have any reason to think that? Or are you just saying that because it couldn't possibly be worse than this year's crop of free agent pitchers?

Both

SMcGavin
01-14-2008, 02:52 PM
Didnt we think that going into last year, and what came of that? I think it is in both parties best interests to avoid this one. I would hope we wouldnt consider him, and I would hope after his season here last year, his pride wouldnt allow him to come back.

In the 200 or so innings he pitched as a Red, Lohse had a 4.58 ERA. If whoever the Reds add for the rotation in 08 pitches as well as Lohse did last year, I'd be pretty happy. Especially if that guy didn't cost us any of the big four to acquire. Yes he is going to be overpriced but Kyle Lohse is not a bad pitcher.

Brian
01-14-2008, 04:03 PM
Bah, I can handle not having him back again. He's so inconsistent. Is he better than any of the other rotation fodder that's being discussed? I don't know really, and that's part of the problem at that level. But whatever he makes, it's going to be too much. He's just in the right place at the right time.

muethibp
01-14-2008, 05:14 PM
I will never understand the hostility to Lohse. The Reds were a much, much better team when he was on the roster. Lohse finished 2007 30th in the NL in the ERA. That doesn't make him a superstar but given that there are 15 teams in the NL, that makes him a solid #3 starter; that is, last I checked, this team's biggest need.

HokieRed
01-14-2008, 06:52 PM
Agreed, Lohse is a 3 or 4; he's better than the other available free agents. He's likely to be much more reliable this coming year than Bailey, Cueto, Maloney, or Volquez--even though all of those guys will, I hope and believe, be much better pitchers in the long run. If we get him on a decent contract, he's likely to be movable later on. If the young kids come along really well, in a year or so, he may give insurance that would enable a move of Arroyo. I think a very good case can be made for signing Lohse as the best alternative available to the Reds right now, the one that best increases the chance of competing this year while providing flexibility in the future.

AmarilloRed
01-15-2008, 12:07 AM
Kyle Lohse reminds me of that little girl. When he is good he is very good, and when he is bad, he is simply horrid. He had 16 quality starts last year, and he also had 8 starts where he gave up 6 runs or more. He has good quality stuff, he just never learned how to use it.

Bip Roberts
01-15-2008, 12:30 AM
Kyle Lohse reminds me of that little girl. When he is good he is very good, and when he is bad, he is simply horrid. He had 16 quality starts last year, and he also had 8 starts where he gave up 6 runs or more. He has good quality stuff, he just never learned how to use it.

:bowrofl: made me think about how girls are so gross when it comes to certain things.

namichael
01-16-2008, 08:13 AM
Someone posted that they would rather have a cheap uncertainty than an expensive one. I couldn't agree more. I'd much rather see the Reds pay Bailey for a start that could go either way versus paying Lohse upwards of 7 million for one of his patented "Bad Kyle" outings. And besides, the more that the Reds run Bailey and the other up and comers out to the mound the quicker that they are going to find their grooves and potentially dominate the NL in the coming years. If they can do this at a discounted rate, I say that's the way to go.

HokieRed
01-16-2008, 11:00 AM
Kyle Lohse is somewhat erratic from start to start but if you're interested in seasonal performance, he's not terribly erratic. He's pretty much reliable for 180-200 innings, and in around 190 innings for the Reds over two seasons, he put up a 4.58 ERA (threw 60 innings in 2006 of 4.57, about 130 last year of 4.58). If you come out of the gate this year with Harang, Arroyo, Lohse, and Belisle, you will have 4 guys in the rotation with a high likelihood of giving you a total of 700 innings (could actually be higher, depending on Belisle). There will not be many teams that solid going into the season, and it's also a tremendous help to the bullpen. Bailey, Volquez, Cueto, and Maloney can compete for the 4 and 5 spots, to begin with (I wouldn't consider Belisle a "given," though I actually think he's a decent 3-4). As that foursome, or some part of it, develops, the others become eligible to be moved. Lohse and Belisle, the most likely to be moved, will have value and can be moved. In fact, if one or more of the kids gets good enough, having a 190 innings guy like Lohse enables you to start thinking about moving an Arroyo.

redhawk61
01-16-2008, 11:08 AM
I say use the money on Michael Barrett and see if he can return to the form he had when Dusty was his manager in Chicago. He hit .289 Under three seasons of Baker

*BaseClogger*
01-16-2008, 01:46 PM
I say use the money on Michael Barrett and see if he can return to the form he had when Dusty was his manager in Chicago. He hit .289 Under three seasons of Baker

I think the difference in defense between Ross and Barrett would almost make up for the difference, along with Ross's BABIP regressing to the mean. Technically Barrett would be worth more if he COULD return to that form, but its not a wise investment with a decent in-house candidate (Ross)...

topsyt
01-16-2008, 04:09 PM
Loshe is worth exploring if the price is right given what is available.
He makes us better and the upgraded pen may make him better.
Provides for good competition in spring training and gives the kids some time to mature.

Bip Roberts
01-16-2008, 04:13 PM
Loshe is worth exploring if the price is right given what is available.
He makes us better and the upgraded pen may make him better.
Provides for good competition in spring training and gives the kids some time to mature.

How would the upgraded pen help him? He either throws 1 hit shut outs or cant make it through 2 innings. Id break my legs than have another season of that roller coaster

muethibp
01-16-2008, 05:47 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3199511


Pitcher Nate Robertson and the Detroit Tigers avoided salary arbitration when they agreed Wednesday to a $21.25 million, three-year contract.

Robertson was 9-13 with a 4.76 ERA in 30 starts with Detroit last season. He would have been eligible for free agency after the 2009 season.

Still think Lohse is not worth a shot?