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Degenerate39
01-29-2008, 07:06 PM
I saw this on Yahoo Sports...


Reds re-sign 1B Votto

January 29, 2008
CINCINNATI (Ticker) - The Cincinnati Reds on Tuesday signed top first base prospect Joey Votto to a new one-year contract for 2008.

Votto, a Toronto native, hit .321 with four home runs and 17 RBI in 24 games for the Reds last season. In 133 games for Class AAA Louisville, Votto hit .294 with 22 home runs and 92 RBI en route to Rookie of the Year honors in the International League.

The 24-year-old is now being tabbed to beat Scott Hatteberg in the battle for first base during Spring Training.

The Reds also agreed one-year contracts with righthanders Richie Gardner, Daryl Thompson and Sergio Valenzuela; lefthanders Tyler Pelland and Alexander Smit; catchers catchers Ryan Hanigan and Craig Tatum; infielder Paul Janisch and outfielder outfielder Chris Dickerson.

Is this some typo or something? Why would they sign Votto for a one year deal when he's not even arb. eligiable yet?

HalMorrisRules
01-29-2008, 07:43 PM
Everyone has a contract. The Reds just got Joey's done early.

Edd Roush
01-29-2008, 09:44 PM
They just assured Votto that he will be a Red next year officially and he won't be let go by the organization.

kentjett
01-29-2008, 11:33 PM
Get rid of Scotty, Votto and Keppinger are capable of holding down 1st. I don'y want to take away from Vott's AB's.

Natty Redlocks
01-29-2008, 11:58 PM
Get rid of Scotty, Votto and Keppinger are capable of holding down 1st. I don'y want to take away from Vott's AB's.

Scott Hatteberg is a valuable commodity, you don't just "get rid" of him.

kentjett
01-30-2008, 12:09 PM
I like him but we don't have room for him, trade him or let him go.

HalMorrisRules
01-30-2008, 12:40 PM
Apparently a good bench isnt of any importance to you?

BLEEDS
01-30-2008, 01:05 PM
I like him but we don't have room for him, trade him or let him go.

He's a $1.85M left handed pinch-hitter.

Not too shabby when you consider what we're paying Ryan Freel to be....

:thumbdown

PEACE

-BLEEDS

jmac
01-30-2008, 01:10 PM
Apparently a good bench isnt of any importance to you?

Excellent point. Only let's hope he is the one on bench "barring" injury.
8th inning score tied at 3 with runners on first and second, Ph is Scott Hatteberg. :thumbup:

Brian
01-30-2008, 01:21 PM
There's zero reason to move Hatt. He's affordable, a good leader and someone you definitely want if this team makes it to post season play.

kaldaniels
01-30-2008, 03:30 PM
There's zero reason to move Hatt. He's affordable, a good leader and someone you definitely want if this team makes it to post season play.

Agreed. That said, I do have an open mind. If someone out there has an idea to get rid of Hatte, make this year's team better, and not increase payroll please put it out there.

Triples
01-30-2008, 03:39 PM
I can see Votto, his minor contract expires at the end of this year, but what about Tatum and Janich. They are still owned by the Reds for two more years. The Reds are under no obligation to sign them to anything more than what is required by the standard minor league contracts based on level of play and time of service. What kind of contract are we talking about?

NeilHamburger
01-30-2008, 03:55 PM
Plus, there are always times when you need an extra bat. Votto might be sick for a few days, tired, hurt or whatever. Plus you need a DH for the AL park interleague games, and Hatteberg gives you a good one. No reason to get rid of him unless someone surprises you with a really good offer.

*BaseClogger*
01-30-2008, 04:31 PM
Agreed. That said, I do have an open mind. If someone out there has an idea to get rid of Hatte, make this year's team better, and not increase payroll please put it out there.

trade Hatteberg for B prospect, sign Chris Shelton, give Shelton AB's versus LH pitchers at 1B. Shelton will be a better hitter at a cheaper price...

kaldaniels
01-30-2008, 06:37 PM
trade Hatteberg for B prospect, sign Chris Shelton, give Shelton AB's versus LH pitchers at 1B. Shelton will be a better hitter at a cheaper price...

I would disagree. I think if you get rid of Hatteberg and add Shelton you have just made the Reds weaker as a team.

Why can't Votto play everyday? Also, I would favor Hatteberg coming off the bench late vs a righty as opposed to Shelton coming into face a lefty. I know thats hard to compare but still...Shelton is K prone.

Dollar figures aside...am I in the minority who would rather have Hatte than Shelton???

*BaseClogger*
01-30-2008, 06:42 PM
I would disagree. I think if you get rid of Hatteberg and add Shelton you have just made the Reds weaker as a team.

Why can't Votto play everyday? Also, I would favor Hatteberg coming off the bench late vs a righty as opposed to Shelton coming into face a lefty. I know thats hard to compare but still...Shelton is K prone.

Dollar figures aside...am I in the minority who would rather have Hatte than Shelton???

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64861

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64856&highlight=chris+shelton

Shelton would have more value playing first base against lefties than Hatteberg pinch-hitting. Why do Shelton's strikeouts matter? Sounds like Adam Dunn syndrome- haven't we gotten over that?

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 06:45 PM
Strike outs for pinch hitters matter kinda.

kaldaniels
01-30-2008, 07:13 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64861

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64856&highlight=chris+shelton

Shelton would have more value playing first base against lefties than Hatteberg pinch-hitting. Why do Shelton's strikeouts matter? Sounds like Adam Dunn syndrome- haven't we gotten over that?

What in the world did those threads prove/show me. My question was how many people would prefer Shelton OVER Hatte. Sure, Shelton is a capable guy and would be a decent backup to have, no doubt. But at the expense of Hatteberg???

Well done though in throwing in an Adam Dunn jab, despite the fact that you are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to everyday players vs a guy who would be coming in off the bench quite a bit. A K prone guy with decent power is not an ideal pinch hitter. A K prone guy with enormous power serves a role in an everyday lineup. C'mon, you can do better than that.

*BaseClogger*
01-30-2008, 08:10 PM
What in the world did those threads prove/show me. My question was how many people would prefer Shelton OVER Hatte. Sure, Shelton is a capable guy and would be a decent backup to have, no doubt. But at the expense of Hatteberg???

Well done though in throwing in an Adam Dunn jab, despite the fact that you are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to everyday players vs a guy who would be coming in off the bench quite a bit. A K prone guy with decent power is not an ideal pinch hitter. A K prone guy with enormous power serves a role in an everyday lineup. C'mon, you can do better than that.

My point was that there are a trememdous number of people on the ORG and SunDeck that feel Shelton would be a better use of the roster spot than Hatteberg, especially considering we may get a decent prospect for Hatt. So yeah the threads do respond to your question PERFECTLY.

As to the second thing perhaps I was not clear enough: I love Adam Dunn. You can click my public profile and see that he is the only player I have listed as a favorite. my point was that while Shelton will strikeout, his power and great plate discipline would outweight the perceived disadvantage of the strikeouts. As I also mentioned, where Shelton's value would really come would be his role at first base against LH pitching. I think the whole "pinch-hitting-in-the-bottom-of-the-ninth-inning-with-two-outs" is getting a little blown out of proportion. You really don't have too many of those situations, and it is more important for us to get a RH first baseman to platoon with Votto.

Oh yeah, and Shelton is just as good of a hitter as the 38 year-old Hatteberg. But those intangibles... :rolleyes:

Maybe you should have just read the threads. I already made all of these points, as did many members of the ORG...

kaldaniels
01-30-2008, 08:36 PM
My point was that there are a trememdous number of people on the ORG and SunDeck that feel Shelton would be a better use of the roster spot than Hatteberg, especially considering we may get a decent prospect for Hatt. So yeah the threads do respond to your question PERFECTLY.

As to the second thing perhaps I was not clear enough: I love Adam Dunn. You can click my public profile and see that he is the only player I have listed as a favorite. my point was that while Shelton will strikeout, his power and great plate discipline would outweight the perceived disadvantage of the strikeouts. As I also mentioned, where Shelton's value would really come would be his role at first base against LH pitching. I think the whole "pinch-hitting-in-the-bottom-of-the-ninth-inning-with-two-outs" is getting a little blown out of proportion. You really don't have too many of those situations, and it is more important for us to get a RH first baseman to platoon with Votto.

Oh yeah, and Shelton is just as good of a hitter as the 38 year-old Hatteberg. But those intangibles... :rolleyes:

Maybe you should have just read the threads. I already made all of these points, as did many members of the ORG...

Maybe 5 people not counting yourself on those threads directly said they would be in favor of Hatte for Shelton. Tremendous amount of people???? Eh.

And I knew you liked Dunn I didn't misunderstand...it just seemed like a baited remark...

What do you define "plate discipline" as....thats not a term that Shelton usually brings to mind???

kaldaniels
01-30-2008, 08:42 PM
Just as an aside to this thread. Has anyone bothered to realize Chris Shelton hit .255 vs lefties last year in over 100 AB's. At AAA Toledo.

*BaseClogger*
01-30-2008, 08:43 PM
Maybe 5 people not counting yourself on those threads directly said they would be in favor of Hatte for Shelton. Tremendous amount of people???? Eh.

And I knew you liked Dunn I didn't misunderstand...it just seemed like a baited remark...

What do you define "plate discipline" as....thats not a term that Shelton usually brings to mind???

Are you accounting for the ORG thread too? It goes on for quite a few pages. You gotta read what RedsManRick says. If you can't respect his perspective, you don't respect yourself.

I define plate discipline as Shelton's career minor league OBP of .412...

*BaseClogger*
01-30-2008, 08:49 PM
Just as an aside to this thread. Has anyone bothered to realize Chris Shelton hit .255 vs lefties last year in over 100 AB's. At AAA Toledo.

career splits:

vs RH- .286/.342/.498 in 643 MLB PA
vs LH- .269/.363/.420 in 256 MLB PA

sounds better than Hatteberg to me, especially considering they were in Comerica instead of GABP...

kaldaniels
01-30-2008, 08:56 PM
Are you accounting for the ORG thread too? It goes on for quite a few pages. You gotta read what RedsManRick says. If you can't respect his perspective, you don't respect yourself.

I define plate discipline as Shelton's career minor league OBP of .412...

Wow...way to take this to a personal level. I'm afraid I can't continue this discussion rationally. All I said was I disagree with your desire for Shelton. Then, you come back at me talking to me like I'm a child with your Adam Dunn remark rather than stats or a reasonable debate. I was looking forward to a Hatte/Shelton breakdown but oh well. I'm outta here.

*BaseClogger*
01-30-2008, 08:58 PM
Wow...way to take this to a personal level. I'm afraid I can't continue this discussion rationally. All I said was I disagree with your desire for Shelton. Then, you come back at me talking to me like I'm a child with your Adam Dunn remark rather than stats or a reasonable debate. I was looking forward to a Hatte/Shelton breakdown but oh well. I'm outta here.

I didn't intend to make this personal. in fact the respect yourself thing wasn't meant to be all that serious. I should have said his arguement instead of perspective... I'm sorry if you took it so personally, perhaps I need to be more serious...

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 09:00 PM
Hey I freaking hate you Baseclogger

Bip Roberts
01-30-2008, 09:06 PM
just kidding

kaldaniels
01-30-2008, 09:57 PM
Ahh cooler heads have prevailed. Thanks for the PM Baseclogger. I am back. :beerme:

*BaseClogger*
01-30-2008, 10:00 PM
Ahh cooler heads have prevailed. Thanks for the PM Baseclogger. I am back. :beerme:

Reds in 2008 :beerme: (now I just have to turn 21 so I don't feel guilty every time I use that smiley...)

kaldaniels
01-30-2008, 11:06 PM
Reds in 2008 :beerme: (now I just have to turn 21 so I don't feel guilty every time I use that smiley...)

lol....Again, I apologize for my snippiness...you have shown you are nothing but class Baseclogger...now put that beer down!