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BRM
02-01-2008, 11:43 AM
Is it me or do Sampson's boy look a little out of synch the last couple of games? The offense has been nothing but one pass and make a one-on-one move. That works against lesser teams but it sure won't work against the better teams as we've seen this week.

Tell me Hoosier fans, is it time to worry a bit or is this just a bump in the road?

RedsManRick
02-01-2008, 11:44 AM
Nope. My Badgers are just that good on defense.

BRM
02-01-2008, 11:50 AM
Nope. My Badgers are just that good on defense.

Are the Huskies stud defenders too? ;)

The Badgers do make everyone look bad offensively but the style of play is what is bothering me. They looked the same against UCONN. No motion, no offense, just take it to the hole or put up a perimeter shot from 25 feet after one pass.

Razor Shines
02-01-2008, 12:25 PM
Is it me or do Sampson's boy look a little out of synch the last couple of games? The offense has been nothing but one pass and make a one-on-one move. That works against lesser teams but it sure won't work against the better teams as we've seen this week.

Tell me Hoosier fans, is it time to worry a bit or is this just a bump in the road?

Yeah they haven't been in sync on offense all season. It's just that they played such a crappy non conference schedule that it wasn't as obvious. The Hoosiers have guys with the athletic ability to expose weaknesses in even good teams, but it's like no one has any idea what the other player is doing on offense. It seems like a bunch of good players who just met and are playing a pick up game.

The Badgers are a pretty good team, but with the talent IU has there is no way they should lose to them, and they especially shouldn't have lost to UConn. I think DJ is the only player on the team that boxes out. And I wouldn't be upset if fat boy didn't play another game the rest of the season. Man he is lazy.

BRM
02-01-2008, 12:30 PM
Yeah they haven't been in sync on offense all season. It's just that they played such a crappy non conference schedule that it wasn't as obvious. The Hoosiers have guys with the athletic ability to expose weaknesses in even good teams, but it's like no one has any idea what the other player is doing on offense. It seems like a bunch of good players who just met and are playing a pick up game.

The Badgers are a pretty good team, but with the talent IU has there is no way they should lose to them, and they especially shouldn't have lost to UConn. I think DJ is the only player on the team that boxes out. And I wouldn't be upset if fat boy didn't play another game the rest of the season. Man he is lazy.

It does seem that way. It's not much different from the Mike Davis days as far as the offense goes. The results are different in the win column now thanks to Eric Gordon's arrival and DJ White's "coming of age". I do give Sampson credit for getting DJ White to man up this season though. They are still a "playground" team for the most part.

DeAndre Thomas has been pathetic, no argument here on that one. The Hoosiers have no inside presence besides DJ. Mike White and DeAndre Thomas just aren't cutting it and Stemler is more of a perimeter player.

WMR
02-01-2008, 01:40 PM
Crawford never saw a shot he didn't like. :eek:

BRM
02-01-2008, 02:13 PM
Crawford never saw a shot he didn't like. :eek:

No kidding. No one on the team takes more bad shots than Jordan Crawford.

redsfanmia
02-01-2008, 04:03 PM
I hate to say this but watching Kelvin Sampson's idea of offense makes me pine for the Mike Davis teams. Kelvin Sampson was one of the few coaches Mike D outcoached.

redsfanmia
02-01-2008, 04:04 PM
No kidding. No one on the team takes more bad shots than Jordan Crawford.

Eric Gordon says Hello.

BRM
02-01-2008, 04:10 PM
Eric Gordon says Hello.

Main difference being Gordon actually makes some of his.

Razor Shines
02-09-2008, 10:38 PM
I hate to say this but watching Kelvin Sampson's idea of offense makes me pine for the Mike Davis teams. Kelvin Sampson was one of the few coaches Mike D outcoached.

As much as I don't like Kelvin Sampson, he doesn't deserve that sort of disrespect, no one does.

Did anyone see what Chester Frazier did to Gordon before the game the other night? How did Bruce Webber even allow him to play the game? A decent coach sits him for a stunt like that. The Univ. of Illinois issued somewhat of an apology on Friday but didn't even mention Frazier's incident.


Illinois Statement on Fan Behavior

From Illinois Director of Athletics Ron Guenther and Basketball Coach Bruce Weber

Feb. 8, 2008

Champaign, Ill. - "There was a great college basketball game played Thursday night between the University of Illinois and Indiana University, but the game has been somewhat diminished by inappropriate behavior by a number of fans in attendance. We value the enthusiastic support of the sellout crowds at the Assembly Hall, but above all we take very seriously the reputation of our basketball program and the University of Illinois. The profanity and behavior by a small segment of fans Thursday night is disappointing and intolerable, and for that we apologize to fans of both teams."

I don't even really care about what the fans did, North Carolina fans treated JJ Redick much worse than Illinois fans treated Gordon the other night, but I never saw UNC apologize for it.

WMR
02-10-2008, 01:17 AM
Bilas made it sound like this pre-game "bumping" has somehow become accepted by those around the game. I couldn't tell if it was done in a joking/friendly way or if there was real malice behind it... Gordon seemed very surprised by it...

George Anderson
02-10-2008, 01:44 AM
Illinois Statement on Fan Behavior

From Illinois Director of Athletics Ron Guenther and Basketball Coach Bruce Weber

Feb. 8, 2008

Champaign, Ill. - "There was a great college basketball game played Thursday night between the University of Illinois and Indiana University, but the game has been somewhat diminished by inappropriate behavior by a number of fans in attendance. We value the enthusiastic support of the sellout crowds at the Assembly Hall, but above all we take very seriously the reputation of our basketball program and the University of Illinois. The profanity and behavior by a SMALL segment of fans Thursday night is disappointing and intolerable, and for that we apologize to fans of both teams





Since when is the entire stadium a "small segment of fans"?? :rolleyes:

redsfanmia
02-10-2008, 12:17 PM
Am I the only Hoosier fan who prefers the way Purdue plays? I still dont like the Boilers but much prefer their style of basketball. The more I watch Sampson lead teams play the more I realize that Greenspan made yet another bad hire.

Razor Shines
02-10-2008, 04:08 PM
Am I the only Hoosier fan who prefers the way Purdue plays? I still dont like the Boilers but much prefer their style of basketball. The more I watch Sampson lead teams play the more I realize that Greenspan made yet another bad hire.

Do you know any other Hoosier fans? I don't know any that prefer the Hoosiers style.

Their defense isn't terrible, I think they should play man to man more often with the athletes that they have, but they generally do a good job in the zone (except against Illinois). It's the offense that bothers me, it was a little better today, they moved the ball a little more, but it was still a lot of street ball style.

redsfanmia
02-10-2008, 05:33 PM
Do you know any other Hoosier fans? I don't know any that prefer the Hoosiers style.

Their defense isn't terrible, I think they should play man to man more often with the athletes that they have, but they generally do a good job in the zone (except against Illinois). It's the offense that bothers me, it was a little better today, they moved the ball a little more, but it was still a lot of street ball style.

I guess I worded it wrong, JMV talks about it all the time. The "offense" they run is absolutely terrible IMO.

bucksfan
02-10-2008, 10:07 PM
Congrats on the win today, Hoosiers. DJ was a beast. Buckeyes too young and methinks ever moreso too generally out-of-sync this year. Man it was a cold walk from the Varsity CLub to the Schott today. Felt like it was 30 below!

BRM
02-11-2008, 09:21 AM
Their defense isn't terrible, I think they should play man to man more often with the athletes that they have, but they generally do a good job in the zone (except against Illinois). It's the offense that bothers me, it was a little better today, they moved the ball a little more, but it was still a lot of street ball style.

I agree with you on the defense. I wish they would play more man but the zone seems to be working OK for the most part.

The offense can get painful to watch at times. No discipline and little movement most of the time. Three pretty big home games coming up against Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Purdue.

WMR
02-11-2008, 10:09 AM
No discipline, huh? Sounds just like the good ole Kelvin Sanction we all know and love. :p:

WMR
02-11-2008, 10:17 AM
I'll tell ya one thing, I'll be following Jordan Crawford's career with great interest. This kid has got a heck of a lot of growing up and maturing to do on the basketball court... great talent, no question about it.

WMR
02-11-2008, 10:21 AM
I've probably watched more Indiana games than any other team this year after UK (all of UK's games). Love me some ESPN Full Court.

BRM
02-11-2008, 11:49 AM
I'll tell ya one thing, I'll be following Jordan Crawford's career with great interest. This kid has got a heck of a lot of growing up and maturing to do on the basketball court... great talent, no question about it.

No doubt. He could be a very good player with a little maturity. He's as undiscplined as it gets right now but the kid definitely has major talent.

Revering4Blue
02-12-2008, 07:08 PM
BLOOMINGTON, Indiana (Ticker) -- The career of Indiana senior guard A.J. Ratliff appears to be over.

Hoosiers coach Kelvin Sampson said Tuesday that Ratliff, who has played in only nine games this season, would not return to the team due to personal reasons.

"Both of us agreed that it was in his best interests to focus on himself and to work through his personal issues," Sampson said in a statement released by the school. "We wish him the best."

Ratliff missed the first 10 games of the season after being declared academically ineligible and sat out three additional games due to an ankle injury.

"A.J. is going through a lot of personal issues that are bigger than anything he has ever faced before," Stephanie Gilbert, Ratliff's legal guardian, told the Indianapolis Star.

"We completely support the university in how they've tried to help A.J. as well as everything coach Sampson has done for him."

Gilbert did not identify the nature of Ratliff's personal issues.

Ratliff did not play in Sunday's 59-53 win at Ohio State, the second straight contest he missed. After that game, Sampson said Ratliff's issues did not involve academics or a legal matter.

Ratliff's average dropped from 9.3 points per game as a junior to just 1.7 this season. He finished his Indiana career with a 5.8 scoring average in 93 games, including 39 starts.


http://areyouwatchingthis.com/ncaab/news/52159

WMR
02-12-2008, 07:26 PM
Anyone heard anything what this is about?

SunDeck
02-12-2008, 09:51 PM
Anyone heard anything what this is about?

Nope. Not many people are surprised by it because he's been struggling academically and (I guess) emotionally all year. He certainly has had an unfortunate college career- first the supremely awful Mike Davis and now a coach who he really doesn't seem to connect with. A coworker has friends close to the program who may find something out. If I hear anything I'll post it here.

WMR
02-13-2008, 01:45 AM
Indiana gets list of alleged violations related to phone calls

The NCAA sent a notice of allegations to Indiana University last Friday detailing major violations in the men's basketball program, multiple sources told ESPN.com.

Larry MacIntyre, assistant vice president for university communications at Indiana University, confirmed to ESPN.com that the school did receive documentation from the NCAA last week.

The Associated Press reported on Tuesday night that the school will make the allegations public on Wednesday. University trustees president Stephen Ferguson told AP that school officials this week reviewed the report, but that the NCAA is not expected to make its ruling until this summer.

"There won't be a hearing till this June," Ferguson told AP. "It's just been reviewed, and I think everyone is analyzing it now."

MacIntyre said he was unable to provide any more information. But MacIntyre said he was working on providing a copy of the documentation in a request made by ESPN.com through the Freedom of Information Act.

But ESPN.com has learned over the last week that the NCAA uncovered new information since Indiana self-reported violations under second-year head coach Kelvin Sampson in October.

Sampson had been sanctioned after making impermissible phone calls while he was the coach at Oklahoma. Indiana then revealed more bad calls while Sampson was at IU. Multiple sources told ESPN.com that the NCAA was looking into whether Sampson did not tell the truth about those calls, resulting in the allegations of major violations.

This new information that helped result in a major violations tag could put the season of Indiana (No. 12 ESPN/USA Today, No. 13 AP) under a cloud of uncertainty and the career of Sampson as well.

ESPN.com made multiple efforts to reach Indiana athletic director Rick Greenspan over the past week and he never returned calls. Sampson didn't return a message Tuesday.

Indiana will have 90 days to respond to the letter. The committee on infractions has a hearing in April, but because of the 90-day window the hearing isn't expected to take place until the June meeting. That means Indiana may not have closure on the matter until late into the summer.

"The report came out in October, the university filed its response and there's really not been anything happening [on the board] in the last five months," Ferguson told AP. "There have not been any discussions."

A postseason ban for the Hoosiers would only come into play if IU decided to self-impose such a measure since the committee on infractions won't meet until June. According to multiple sources, a postseason ban would only occur if there were an issue with the eligibility of any current student athletes, which ESPN.com has been told isn't an issue yet.

The NCAA investigation came after Indiana made an announcement in October that Sampson had made 100 impermissible phone calls while he was on probation for illicit calls he made while he was the coach at Oklahoma from 2000 to 2006. During that time, he made 577 impermissible calls.

Sampson was penalized by Oklahoma by not being allowed to travel for recruiting. Indiana imposed the same penalty in his first season at IU. He was also banned from making calls and going off campus to recruit for a calendar year. He wasn't banned from text messaging since it was allowed during that year. But it was during that year that he made the impermissible calls.

Sampson wasn't allowed to take part in three-way calls, originated by anyone on the staff. In October, Indiana made public that former assistant Rob Senderoff initiated three-way calls. During the October news conference, Indiana said that Sampson said he was unaware he was participating on a three-way call. Senderoff, who was forced to resign, said he didn't let Sampson know he was on a three-way call, either. Prior to being forced out, Senderoff was told he couldn't recruit off campus for a year or make a phone call. The same restriction was put on Dan Dakich, who has since been moved up to an assistant position from director of basketball operations.

Sampson was hit with more penalties by the school, forfeiting a $500,000 raise, and a scholarship was taken away from the team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3243325

Andy Katz is a senior writer at ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Cedric
02-13-2008, 02:35 AM
Thanks Kelvin. Indiana and the Big Ten don't work this way. I know Jim O'brien did something incredibly stupid when he gave money to a kid that wasn't ever going to play at Ohio State. At least he got cleared though. Sampson is just dirty. Everyone knows how much pride Indiana took in it's program being clean. I don't think Kelvin Sampson lasts past this year.

WMR
02-13-2008, 02:37 AM
He's in BIG trouble. :(

Cedric
02-13-2008, 02:38 AM
He's in BIG trouble. :(

He is going to get fired and probably never get a good coaching job again. Honestly he had a second chance and he did the same dumb thing. I don't have much sympathy for that.

WMR
02-13-2008, 02:40 AM
He is going to get fired and probably never get a good coaching job again. Honestly he had a second chance and he did the same dumb thing. I don't have much sympathy for that.

You're right.

WMR
02-13-2008, 02:40 AM
It's just unfortunate, because the majority of IU fans are good people.

redsfanmia
02-13-2008, 06:25 AM
He is going to get fired and probably never get a good coaching job again. Honestly he had a second chance and he did the same dumb thing. I don't have much sympathy for that.

Not only should he be fired but so should anyone connected with his hiring. The guy is greasy and his kind should have never been brought in to tarnish the program. I would rather have IU lose all their games then cheat.

Razor Shines
02-13-2008, 08:27 AM
Not only should he be fired but so should anyone connected with his hiring. The guy is greasy and his kind should have never been brought in to tarnish the program. I would rather have IU lose all their games then cheat.

Greenspan should definitely be fired.

If Sampson was clean I'd still be upset that he has no idea how to run an offense but it wouldn't be as bad. The fact that he's cheating and can't teach an offense drives me crazy. I hope that Greenspan and Sampson are fired this summer and IU gets a decent coach.

flyer85
02-13-2008, 10:13 AM
Sampson should be fired and the AD who hired him should go as well. It was one of the dumbest hiring decisions in recent memory by any major university.

IU deserves whatever the NCAA dishes out and more ... hiring Sampson in the first place was stupidity of the highest order.

bucksfan2
02-13-2008, 02:19 PM
It makes me wonder how a guy like Sampson could have not only kept his job at OU but landed one of the primier NCAA coaching jobs at IU. The guy has a blatant disregard for rules. He not only kept breaking NCAA rules but how he signed Eric Gordon was probably on the boundary of being illegal. The AD and Sampson should both be fired. When you are in a position to teach young people these actions are just unacceptable.

WVRed
02-13-2008, 02:59 PM
If Indiana really wanted to make a statement, they would call a presser today and announce his firing.

Besides, I hear Bob Knight is available.

Chip R
02-13-2008, 04:00 PM
If Indiana really wanted to make a statement, they would call a presser today and announce his firing.

Besides, I hear Bob Knight is available.


I would think they have lawyers looking over his contract as we speak.

Hoosier Red
02-13-2008, 04:24 PM
I am as far from a Bob Knight apologist as an IU fan can get.
I don't long for the glory days since I started as a fan in 1996(my freshman year)
But I really don't understand how the University doesn't do the ultimate PR move and get out in front of this train.
Fire Sampson as soon as possible.
Hire Dan Dakich to coach the team the rest of the year.
Dakich is already on staff, it's a smooth transition and if he does well, you can even look at keeping him for a few more years.

Hoosier Red
02-13-2008, 04:26 PM
It makes me wonder how a guy like Sampson could have not only kept his job at OU but landed one of the primier NCAA coaching jobs at IU. The guy has a blatant disregard for rules. He not only kept breaking NCAA rules but how he signed Eric Gordon was probably on the boundary of being illegal. The AD and Sampson should both be fired. When you are in a position to teach young people these actions are just unacceptable.

Now just to understand, what was on the boundary of being illegal? Heck I think even the unethical angle was overplayed. He recruited a kid who showed interest in IU. There's not a whole lot more to it, Gordon gave the verbal committment, didn't honor it(which isn't altogether uncommon)

There are 10000000 things Sampson has done wrong in this whole process but the Gordon recruitment was really not one of them.

Strikes Out Looking
02-13-2008, 04:38 PM
I am as far from a Bob Knight apologist as an IU fan can get.
I don't long for the glory days since I started as a fan in 1996(my freshman year)
But I really don't understand how the University doesn't do the ultimate PR move and get out in front of this train.
Fire Sampson as soon as possible.
Hire Dan Dakich to coach the team the rest of the year.
Dakich is already on staff, it's a smooth transition and if he does well, you can even look at keeping him for a few more years.

I love Dan Dakich, I will never forget the March 1984 game when he became Michael Jordan's biggest nightmare. It would be fitting if he was named coach and they went on to win the NCAA's.

Razor Shines
02-13-2008, 11:41 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3243793


Sampson responded by reading a statement after Indiana's 68-66 loss to No. 14 Wisconsin on Wednesday night.

"The allegations that I knowingly acted contrary to the sanctions that occurred while I was at Oklahoma are not true," he said. "I have never intentionally provided false or misleading information to the NCAA. I intend to work within the NCAA process on this matter, and I look forward to my opportunity to do so."


Greenspan said he spoke with Sampson for about 90 minutes on Tuesday night and spoke to him again Wednesday morning. "I believe coach Sampson understands my perspective on this," Greenspan said. "I've shared that consistently and regularly with him. ... I think he understands the significant implications of this. These are not allegations that are brought forward lightly, or seen in a casual way or frivolous way." Before Sampson coached Wednesday night's game, Greenspan said, "I expect him to be there and coaching our team."

When asked whether he expected Sampson to be the Hoosiers' coach beyond the Wisconsin game, Greenspan said, "I expect him to coach in the foreseeable future. I'll let you editorialize ... on what the foresseable future means. What that means to me is, we have work to do. ... We're going to be expedient. We're also not going to rush to judgment."

I think Greenspan realizes he's screwed if he has to fire Sampson so I don't think he'll do anything. It's possible that school will step in, but we'll see. I did find it interesting that Asst. Coach Jeff Meyer had this to say:

"I regret that I may have made mistakes that are causing my and IU's conduct to be examined by the NCAA. … I will not comment on this process again before it is completed," Meyer said.
Seems like a semi-confession to the allegations.

guttle11
02-13-2008, 11:46 PM
Two words: Sean Miller.

Razor Shines
02-13-2008, 11:50 PM
Two words: Sean Miller.

I'd take him in a heart beat. But if Greenspan doesn't go, along with Sampson, I don't expect too much. Plus Miller may not even want the program by the time the NCAA is done.

guttle11
02-14-2008, 12:21 AM
I'd take him in a heart beat. But if Greenspan doesn't go along with Sampson I don't expect too much. Plus Miller may not even want the program by the time the NCAA is done.

Maybe. If the AD somehow survives, there could be serious sanctions. If the AD goes, I could see maybe a scholarship lost for a year, a loss of a few TV games, and maybe 3 years probation. That might even be a bit high. More of a "What the heck were you thinking" penalty, with an "at least you saw the light quickly" lighter sentence.

TeamSelig
02-14-2008, 11:55 AM
Can't help, but laugh. Normally I wouldn't publicize it, but the UK thread has been hijacked a few times so oh well.

:)

Joseph
02-14-2008, 12:45 PM
I'm a UK fan through and through, and despite the ribbing we were given earlier in the season by IU fans, IU does not deserve to have its history tarnished by Sampson and the AD. Its a good school, it deserves a good coach.

Revering4Blue
02-14-2008, 01:20 PM
I couldn't have stated it better, myself.


Indiana could just cut their losses, fire Sampson and then beg the NCAA for mercy. But I disagree. The school already tried to do the right thing and referred the case to the NCAA, who no doubt did everything possible to find more dirt and allege even worse things so they could truly make an example out of Sampson and Indiana(1) for hiring the guy and "ignoring" their prior concerns about him that they could not fully pin down at OU, and (2) to try to gain "control" of the whole issue of "improper contact" via phone and text messages with recruits. Eric Gordon senior said it best and he should know...all schools do it now and the horse is out of the barn.

The problem with the NCAA is that the organization is simply incapable of dealing with changing technology as it applies to rules. Years ago, no recruits had cellphones and all contact went through parents. Now it is just the opposite...a kid can be reached anywhere, any place or any time. Years ago nobody but businesses had 3-way calling, now every calling plan has the feature, and so forth. So this is a highly visible case for the NCAA, and Indiana should do all it can to ensure that the school and Sampson are entitled to a fair hearing by hopefully an independent and objective judge. This is Kelvin's livelihood after all...if the school caves, he'll never get a chance to refute the "allegations."


Bottom line: this does not involve payouts, job favors, grade or class cheating or any of the really seedy things that some schools have been guilty of over the years. There is no typical "crime". This involves phone calls...I am curious if any Top 50 recruit has ever chosen to go to a school based on how many phone calls he received from a school? I've never heard of one and Gordon Sr. said it had no influence on his decision to play for Sampson.


Challenge the NCAA to prove its case and let the legal process playout.

P.S. Meanwhile the NCAA has done absolutely ZERO to USC about the much more scandalous Reggie Bush 6-figure payouts while in college. The hypocrisy is amazing!

http://blogs.indystar.com/hoosiersinsider/archives/2008/02/question_of_the_7.html#comments

Handofdeath
02-14-2008, 01:37 PM
It makes me wonder how a guy like Sampson could have not only kept his job at OU but landed one of the primier NCAA coaching jobs at IU.

He had the best coaching record in the history of OU basketball is how he kept his job but I think he knew the hammer was about to come down on him. I don't understand why IU would hire him though?

TeamSelig
02-14-2008, 02:00 PM
I'm a UK fan through and through, and despite the ribbing we were given earlier in the season by IU fans, IU does not deserve to have its history tarnished by Sampson and the AD. Its a good school, it deserves a good coach.

I know alot of people have written it off as a dumb signing, but who knows.

Sampson was a known cheater at OU, and then he does the same thing at Indiana. Did they hire him without realizing that he would do it again, or did they hire him because they want to win, regardless of any rule breaking? Just a thought.

And how can you justify it? Everyone has to adhere to these rules. He isn't exempt because technology has changed.

bucksfan2
02-14-2008, 02:27 PM
He had the best coaching record in the history of OU basketball is how he kept his job but I think he knew the hammer was about to come down on him. I don't understand why IU would hire him though?

Was OU relevant before Sampson? I ask because I don't know. It seems like OU was brought to the national forefront through Sampson's tenure achieving good deal of success.

Both the university and Sampson should be punished. I don't care how stupid some people think the cell phone rule is, you still have to follow it. In today's world of technology communicating is made easier but there also is a recording of each phone call made. Sampson knew he was breaking the rules, knew that what he was doing left physical evidence, and not only did he break the rules but he broke the rules over 500 times.

IU should be punished because they hired this guy with a shady past. The AD's may have changed but the school president and a borad of people would still have had to approve of the signing. How can a place of higher education hire a guy who already can't follow the rules to probably the most publically visiable position at their university?

Chip R
02-14-2008, 02:34 PM
Was OU relevant before Sampson? I ask because I don't know. It seems like OU was brought to the national forefront through Sampson's tenure achieving good deal of success.


They were pretty good in the 80s when Wayman Tisdale was there. Even made the Final 4 in 82.

cumberlandreds
02-14-2008, 02:48 PM
They were pretty good in the 80s when Wayman Tisdale was there. Even made the Final 4 in 82.

Billy Tubbs was OU's coach in the 80's. He tought the folks from Oklahoma that their were other sports besides football. They were run and gun type teams that were fun to watch. They made it to NCAA Finals in 1988 and lost to Kansas.
Why hasn't IU at least put Sampson on administrative leave pending the results of their investigation? This seems to be what they should be doing. That way if the allegations were proven false then they have their bases covered than going ahead and firing him. It would also get him off the sidelines were he is going to be nothing but bait for every student section in the Big Ten and takes some of the pressure off his players. I do feel bad for the IU players. They have done nothing wrong but have to suffer through all this.

Revering4Blue
02-14-2008, 02:59 PM
Folks, this is all I'm suggesting:

1)Indiana should do all it can to ensure that the school and Sampson are entitled to a fair hearing by hopefully an independent and objective judge.


2)Challenge the NCAA to prove its case and let the legal process playout.

3)Firing Sampson now accomplishes nothing. If the hammer is going to fall on Sampson and I.U, it's going to fall anyway, regardless of whether Sampson remains,or not.

4)If Sampson is fired, Greenspan also needs to go.

5)If the NCAA is truly willing to proceed with due dilligence regarding texting and phone calls, they will see that this is by no means limited to I.U. No,this doesn't justify it, but will other be schools be penalized severely, or will Sampson and I.U act as poster-children.

6)
Meanwhile the NCAA has done absolutely ZERO to USC about the much more scandalous Reggie Bush 6-figure payouts while in college. The hypocrisy is amazing!

This is hypocritical, no matter how you slice it.

bucksfan2
02-14-2008, 03:33 PM
1)Indiana should do all it can to ensure that the school and Sampson are entitled to a fair hearing by hopefully an independent and objective judge.


I understand what you are saying but this really isn't a criminal case. He broke the rules he was required to abide by. Its similar to an employer telling you your not allowed to make long distance phone calls but you do so anyway. What you are doing isn't illegal (which I have used earlier in this discussion which is probably the wrong way to describe this) but it is against the rules you are forced to abide by.

WMR
02-14-2008, 03:37 PM
Fighting the NCAA on this is only going to create a much bigger mess for IU to deal with and try to clean up in the long-term.

The rules are clear. Whether or not you agree with them is a separate issue. This "case" is not the time for IU to try and work towards changing the NCAA's rules on contacting recruits, especially with an argument as asinine as "everyone else is doing it."

Guarantee you IU knows whether or not Sampson did what the NCAA is alleging. If he did do it, they should have fired him yesterday. For the good of their kids, their reputation, and their program.

IU is a very attractive job. They can get someone else just as good--probably BETTER--than Kelvin Sampson.

dabvu2498
02-14-2008, 03:58 PM
IU is a very attractive job. They can get someone else just as good--probably BETTER--than Kelvin Sampson.

Like Sean Miller?

Revering4Blue
02-14-2008, 04:18 PM
Kelvin Sampson's status as coach of Indiana's basketball team apparently will be decided on a game-by-game basis.

IU Faces Decisions
As Kelvin Sampson received a chilly reception from the home crowd on Wednesday, IU has to mull some hard decisions about its future. The best course of action might be to suspend Sampson immediately, writes Pat Forde. Story

Discussions about whether Sampson would coach Wednesday night's game against Wisconsin went on as late as the afternoon preceding the game, according to a source close to the situation.

A source told #SPN.com that there is an air of uncertainty on the staff regarding Sampson's status and whether he'll finish out the season. Sampson met with his coaches Tuesday into the night and again on Wednesday.

Indiana (No. 12 ESPN/USA Today, No. 13 AP) could choose to suspend Sampson from coaching games while it figures out its options without having to fire him. The Hoosiers have home games Saturday against Michigan State and Tuesday against Purdue.

Another source said Thursday that a buyout of Sampsons contract could be considered, as well. Sampson doesn't plan on resigning because it could be too much of a financial loss, and he would prefer to coach the Hoosiers this season, a source said.

Larry MacIntyre, the assistant vice president for university communications, said IU president Michael McRobbie has met with the school's legal counsel, the board of trustees and athletic director Rick Greenspan.

McRobbie has been on the job since July 1. Adam Herbert was the president who hired Sampson in March 2006.

MacIntyre said there are no plans for a news conference Thursday or Friday, but he said he's "not going on vacation" and is prepared to quickly organize one if needed.

Indiana is reviewing all of its legal options to avoid a lawsuit similar to what Ohio State went through with former men's basketball coach Jim O'Brien, ESPN.com has learned. O'Brien sued the school when he was fired before the NCAA had ruled on his case. O'Brien eventually won the lawsuit against Ohio State.

Sampson could have a similar situation if he is terminated for cause prior to the NCAA officially ruling on a violation. Indiana has 90 days to respond to the enforcement staff's notice of allegations. A hearing in front of the committee on infractions won't occur until June, and a decision usually takes anywhere from a few weeks to a few months before it's rendered.

Indiana is unlikely to wait that long to resolve Sampson's status.

After the two home games, the Hoosiers face Northwestern Feb. 23 in Evanston, Ill., and host Ohio State on Feb. 26.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3245936

WMR
02-14-2008, 04:23 PM
Like Sean Miller?

I'll give you another name I'd consider: Kevin Stallings.

Revering4Blue
02-14-2008, 04:23 PM
IU's best action might be to suspend Sampson immediately
Forde





BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- Most games, Kelvin Sampson wears his suit coat on the sideline for just a minute or two before shucking it off and handing it to a manager.

Wednesday night against Wisconsin, Sampson's black blazer remained on his back for four minutes and 47 seconds. That's a record, according to Inside Indiana, a fan magazine that has been tracking the coach's suit coat for all 56 games of his tenure at IU.


Kelvin Sampson's future is in serious doubt after this week's announcement of major violation allegations against him and members of his coaching staff.

Maybe it was the chill in the Assembly Hall air that caused him to keep it on so long.

There were light boos audible in the crowd of 17,320 when Sampson was introduced before tipoff. They mingled with subdued applause.

"I didn't notice it," Sampson said afterward, when his thoroughly rotten day ended with the Badgers' Brian Butch banking in a 3-pointer to beat the Hoosiers 68-66.

Before introductions, when Sampson and the entire Indiana staff emerged onto the court for the first time, the greeting was unnaturally neutral: no boos, almost no cheers. One fan said, "We love you, Kelvin!" and the coach responded with a wave of his right hand. And that was about it.

It wasn't hostile. But neither was it the kind of warm greeting the coach of a 20-3 team normally would receive.

That's what you get when you have landed in the icy predicament Sampson now is in.

The serial phone dialer might have cheated his way out of one of the premier jobs in college basketball. Once NCAA Enforcement sent its official letter of inquiry last Friday charging Indiana with five major rules violations on Sampson's watch -- adding to the rap sheet he earned previously at Oklahoma -- his dismissal/resignation became a very real possibility.

Perhaps sooner rather than later.

Sampson read a statement after Wednesday's game that refuted some of the NCAA allegations and indicated the coach would rather fight than quit.

"The allegation that I knowingly acted contrary to the sanctions imposed on me for violations that occurred while I was at Oklahoma is not true," Sampson said. "I have never intentionally provided false and misleading information to the NCAA. I intend to work within the NCAA process on this matter, and I look forward to my opportunity to do so."

Sampson answered no questions on the matter before exiting a crowded media room with his wife, Karen, and two children, Kellen and Lauren. Behind the scenes, he has been working on a public-relations campaign aimed at burnishing his reputation, but that campaign faces tougher odds than Mike Huckabee's.

Athletic director Rick Greenspan -- whose own job would seem to be on the line, after he took a chance and hired Sampson -- said Wednesday afternoon that he expected his man to coach against Wisconsin. He offered no ironclad assurances beyond that, saying Sampson would coach "for the foreseeable future."

"What that means to me," Greenspan said, "is that we have work to do."

That work will center on how to address these very serious allegations, and how vigorously to defend the coach and his assistants who are accused of them. The coach and his program have arrived at a high-stakes crossroads. How they go forward from here likely will affect Indiana basketball for years to come.

Right now, IU seems to have three bad choices.

1. Fire Sampson now.

That would be based on the following cause-and-effect logic:

Indiana doesn't cheat.

Indiana hired a cheater who promised to behave.

The cheater allegedly cheated again.

At a school with a long and strong history of winning fair and square, this would seem to be a fireable offense. A dismissal would seem like the right thing to do. But even beyond propriety comes utility.

The NCAA Committee on Infractions, which will hear Indiana's case in June, has a track record of taking into account "swift, corrective action" by an offending university when it comes to doling out penalties. If the school sanctions itself, it might catch a break.

IU already withheld a $500,000 bonus Sampson was slated to get, but that didn't remove the problem element. Taking out Sampson would do just that, and there is language in his contract that seemingly would pave the way for a dismissal. A big move like that could prevent a postseason ban or other major penalty.

The hitch: It could completely undercut this season, but that's only part of the potential problem. What if Sampson is fired before he gets his day in NCAA court? Indiana can ask Big Ten neighbor Ohio State how costly it can be to fire a coach accused of rule-breaking before he gets a chance to try to exonerate himself. Former OSU coach Jim O'Brien won a lawsuit against the school for wrongful termination.

2. A pre-emptive postseason ban.

Indiana could bench this team for the NCAA Tournament, just as the Buckeyes did with O'Brien's team in 2004-05. That, too, would qualify as swift, corrective action, and it could preserve postseason play in future years.

The hitch: The NCAA Enforcement report redacted only one name, which would indicate only one current player was named in an alleged recruiting violation. So the players on the nation's 12th-ranked team are largely blameless. Would it be fair to punish them for the coaches' alleged transgressions?


Indiana assistant Dan Dakich, a former head coach at Bowling Green, appears to be clear on the violations at Indiana. If Sampson were to be fired this season, Dakich would be a logical replacement.

And then there is this: A Hoosiers team with senior D.J. White and likely NBA early entry guard Eric Gordon seems much more likely to do something memorable this NCAA Tournament than a 2008-09 team that will be lacking both.

3. Do nothing, and fight the power.

Indiana can circle the wagons, play out the season and then mount a vigorous defense of its scofflaw coach in June. Maybe the Committee on Infractions will see it IU's way and decide against adding significant penalties to those that already have been imposed by the school.

The hitch: Indiana already acknowledged most of the infractions. Indeed, it uncovered most of them itself with a meticulous compliance system that did its job (a seeming rarity these days in big-time college athletics).

Then there is this: If the Committee on Infractions doesn't buy IU's argument for leniency, it seemingly would have the authority to crush the program into jelly. Postseason ban, scholarship reductions, recruiting restrictions, banning Sampson from coaching in the NCAA -- all those things conceivably could be in play. In other words, the Hoosiers would have to think they had a very good chance of winning in order to take such a risk.

There is a fourth option, and it might be Indiana's best option right now:

Suspend Sampson, effective immediately. Don't let him coach Saturday against Michigan State. Don't let him coach another minute this season.

Turn the team over to assistant coach and former IU player Dan Dakich, who previously was the head coach at Bowling Green and whose name is nowhere to be found in the NCAA letter. Play in the postseason.

Allow Sampson to state his case to the school for why he shouldn't be fired. Decide whether that case is strong enough to argue before the NCAA. If it is, do it. If not, fire him, and remove Greenspan as well. His gamble on a convicted cheater will have blown up in his face.

Doing nothing is not an intelligent option.

The scandal already has had a noticeably chilling effect on Sampson's popularity. And it has done even more damage to Indiana's once-pristine reputation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3244843&sportCat=ncb

WMR
02-14-2008, 04:23 PM
Another, Jay Wright.

WMR
02-14-2008, 04:24 PM
Hey Revering: Can you edit your post and take out all that "extra stuff"??

Thanks. :)

redsfanmia
02-14-2008, 04:34 PM
Dane Fife, Scott Drew and Brad Stevens top my lists as the next coachat IU. All have Indiana ties and are young guys who would be there for the long haul to rebuild IU.

dabvu2498
02-14-2008, 04:34 PM
I'll give you another name I'd consider: Kevin Stallings.

Agree 100%... but he's going to get the Illinois job when they can Bruce.

WMR
02-14-2008, 04:35 PM
Agree 100%... but he's going to get the Illinois job when they can Bruce.

Why do you say that?

When's that going to happen?

guttle11
02-14-2008, 04:42 PM
I think Indiana would be stupid if their first call isn't to Sean Miller. Of all the hot shot coaching names out there, he's accomplished the most. He's got a Xavier team largely recruited by him (he was Matta's top recruiting assistant) that is looking like a legit Elite 8 contender. The recruits he's lined up for next year look like studs. Kenny Frease is a top 40 player, and do a search for Brad Redford up in Michigan. Kid's putting up 40 facing triangle and 2s, with both guys guarding him. He's an unreal shooter out to 30 feet.

And this is coming from a Dayton fan. I'm nothing but impressed by Miller. He's absolutely ready to lead an elite program. He's all class. There would be no worries of violations with him.

The question is whether he'd go. That I'm not so sure about. He's very loyal to X, and it appears the only job he'd definitely leave for is Pitt, which doesn't look to be opening up anytime soon.

Hoosier Red
02-14-2008, 04:42 PM
Dane Fife, Scott Drew and Brad Stevens top my lists as the next coachat IU. All have Indiana ties and are young guys who would be there for the long haul to rebuild IU.

Dane Fife's hopefully going to be a good coach someday but he'd be a disaster at IU at this stage.

I'm in the Sean Miller camp. Assuming he's ready to step up from a "mid major program.":devil:

WMR
02-14-2008, 04:46 PM
Yeah, I hear the only job Miller is leaving X for is Pitt.

I think Steve Alford is the most likely candidate to end up coaching the Hoosiers.

WMR
02-14-2008, 04:47 PM
Who IU ultimately succeeds in hiring will also be quite dependent on what sort of sanctions they face. If the NCAA hits them hard, as has been speculated, it might be more difficult than folks initially imagined to find a "top-tier" candidate.

cumberlandreds
02-14-2008, 04:52 PM
I don't think any high level or up and coming coach like Sean Miller will consider IU until sanctions are handed down. It would be just too risky to come into a situation were the NCAA would limit scholarships and NCAA Tourney appearances.

George Anderson
02-14-2008, 05:03 PM
I'll give you another name I'd consider: Kevin Stallings.

No way Jose...He is a Purdue Grad, that would never go over in Bloomington.

dabvu2498
02-14-2008, 05:05 PM
Why do you say that?

When's that going to happen?

Stallings is from Illinois.

Maybe this year. The natives are restless from what I understand. The group of freshman that Stallings has may make him think about sticking around. If what you read is true, he loves thos kids.

redsfanmia
02-14-2008, 05:07 PM
Who IU ultimately succeeds in hiring will also be quite dependent on what sort of sanctions they face. If the NCAA hits them hard, as has been speculated, it might be more difficult than folks initially imagined to find a "top-tier" candidate.

I dont think so Rick Pitino went to Kentucky and what Sutton and Co did where alot worse than what Kelvin did. I get the impression that if IU cans Kelvin then the NCAA will go lighter on them. I think scholarship reductions and maybe loss of TV games are in order.

Handofdeath
02-14-2008, 06:05 PM
They were pretty good in the 80s when Wayman Tisdale was there. Even made the Final 4 in 82.

The two things that you have to remember is that Sampson took OU to the NCAA's every season he was there. He also was having this success when the OU football program was going through a down period. Those two things probably factored into why Sampson was allowed to remain as long as he did.

Scrap Irony
02-14-2008, 07:09 PM
You also have to remember that, as it pertains to the NCAA, you need to be proven guilty. There is no burden of proof on the NCAA; you don't like it, you can apply for the NAIA.

IU, having been a second-tier program for 20 years, will likely be made an example of simply because the NCAA doesn't care for Kelvin Sampson's tactics. (And, really, he is dirty. Eric Gordon, Meric Shordan-- that is the penultimate example of dirty pool.) They can then point to IU and state how they're so tough on cheating.

Meanwhile, perennial powers in football (USC, Auburn, LSU, and many, many others) and in basketball (Duke, North Carolina, and a few others) will continue to get away with bigger "crimes".

redsfanmia
02-14-2008, 07:50 PM
You also have to remember that, as it pertains to the NCAA, you need to be proven guilty. There is no burden of proof on the NCAA; you don't like it, you can apply for the NAIA.

IU, having been a second-tier program for 20 years, will likely be made an example of simply because the NCAA doesn't care for Kelvin Sampson's tactics. (And, really, he is dirty. Eric Gordon, Meric Shordan-- that is the penultimate example of dirty pool.) They can then point to IU and state how they're so tough on cheating.

Meanwhile, perennial powers in football (USC, Auburn, LSU, and many, many others) and in basketball (Duke, North Carolina, and a few others) will continue to get away with bigger "crimes".

I wouldnt go as far as to say IU has been a second-tier program for 20 years, 13 years maybe but not 20. They had the wrong coach and still made the final game five years ago.

Razor Shines
02-14-2008, 08:06 PM
You also have to remember that, as it pertains to the NCAA, you need to be proven guilty. There is no burden of proof on the NCAA; you don't like it, you can apply for the NAIA.

IU, having been a second-tier program for 20 years, will likely be made an example of simply because the NCAA doesn't care for Kelvin Sampson's tactics. (And, really, he is dirty. Eric Gordon, Meric Shordan-- that is the penultimate example of dirty pool.) They can then point to IU and state how they're so tough on cheating.

Meanwhile, perennial powers in football (USC, Auburn, LSU, and many, many others) and in basketball (Duke, North Carolina, and a few others) will continue to get away with bigger "crimes".

What "crimes" has Duke gotten away with? I don't know much about the other programs you mentioned, Duke is the only one I follow closely.

Revering4Blue
02-14-2008, 08:10 PM
Hey Revering: Can you edit your post and take out all that "extra stuff"??

Thanks. :)

Done. Sorry about that.

Revering4Blue
02-14-2008, 08:21 PM
How about Washington State's Tony Bennett?

WVRed
02-15-2008, 12:34 AM
You have to remember when Kentucky went through this, they forced Cliff Hagan and Eddie Sutton to resign. They also hired CM Newton, who was widely respected by the NCAA. Those two moves may have saved them from the death penalty.

How IU's administration handles this will determine how the NCAA punishes them. If they back Kelvin, the NCAA will come down hard. If they fire him and everybody who had connection, they will get a lighter sentence.

That being said, Sean Miller would be at the top of my list. The only thing that worries me being a Kentucky fan is that Gillispie had similar problems that Sampson had with the phones. Does anybody else remember that?

WVRed
02-15-2008, 12:36 AM
What "crimes" has Duke gotten away with? I don't know much about the other programs you mentioned, Duke is the only one I follow closely.

I think its speculation more than anything. I personally think that Duke has done some things that are borderline dirty(namely Coach K using an American Express commercial as a recruiting tool), but until concrete proof arises, I will believe it when I see it.

Cedric
02-15-2008, 01:57 AM
Duke and it's little Piggy got away with plenty. It would be TERRIBLE PR for Duke to get in big trouble with the NCAA.

WMR
02-15-2008, 04:51 AM
An Insider on another board says that he heard from a very reliable source that Kelvin Sampson will be suspended or fired within the next few days ...

SunDeck
02-15-2008, 07:41 AM
Sources in Bloomington are saying the same thing. Rumors fly, of course, and every regular at Nick's likes to spout off things and state that they have access to "inside" information. Having said that, the consensus here is that IU will be cutting him loose as soon as they can satisfy their own personnel procedures for firing an employee for cause. In the HT this morning, it says they will conduct a short investigation and reading between the lines, I would guess that means they are going over the initial IU investigation to see if they can find solid evidence that he mislead them intentionally. That seems to be the crux of the matter- that he knowingly violated the NCAA rules and that he lied to IU during their investigation. It could also just mean that the university counsel are reviewing his contract to make sure they can fire him right now.

I cannot imagine that he will be here next year. His credibility is so low that it is hard to see how the university sees him as an asset.

Razor Shines
02-15-2008, 08:29 AM
I think its speculation more than anything. I personally think that Duke has done some things that are borderline dirty(namely Coach K using an American Express commercial as a recruiting tool), but until concrete proof arises, I will believe it when I see it.


Duke and it's little Piggy got away with plenty. It would be TERRIBLE PR for Duke to get in big trouble with the NCAA.

Ok it sounds like what it always is people who hate Duke and Coach K spreading rumors.

bucksfan2
02-15-2008, 08:40 AM
About Duke, I think they get special treatment by the NCAA. I really think a minor infraction and the NCAA may turn its head because of how good Duke is for the NCAA. Look I hate Duke but they do bring more attention to the NCAA.

Back to IU. I was talking with a friend about Sampson last night and we were to the point that we just started laughing about how stupid he actually was. Get a pre paid phone, calling card, untraceable phone, anything but use you school liscenesed phone to make illegal phone calls. For goodness sakes there are 14 year olds who are better at hideing phone calls from their parents than a grown man was from hideing phone calls from the NCAA.

Razor Shines
02-15-2008, 08:44 AM
About Duke, I think they get special treatment by the NCAA. I really think a minor infraction and the NCAA may turn its head because of how good Duke is for the NCAA. Look I hate Duke but they do bring more attention to the NCAA.


cool.

dabvu2498
02-15-2008, 08:45 AM
Ok it sounds like what it always is people who hate Duke and Coach K spreading rumors.

The evidence regarding Chris Duhon's mother's job is pretty damning.

BRM
02-15-2008, 10:15 AM
An Insider on another board says that he heard from a very reliable source that Kelvin Sampson will be suspended or fired within the next few days ...

I'm hearing the same thing. We'll see in the next couple of days I guess.

WMR
02-15-2008, 10:20 AM
I'm hearing the same thing. We'll see in the next couple of days I guess.

You been keeping a low profile these past few days, BRM... how's everything

WMR
02-15-2008, 10:21 AM
The evidence regarding Chris Duhon's mother's job is pretty damning.

SHHHH Don't you know whatever Coach K does, he just sends a memo to the NCAA and they change the rules accordingly.

He is the messiah of college basketball and the greatest college basketball program of all-time. Don't believe me? Just ask Dick Vitale.

WVRed
02-15-2008, 10:58 AM
The evidence regarding Chris Duhon's mother's job is pretty damning.

IIRC, Kansas hired Mario Chalmers dad as their Athletic Director(or another high profile position) so he would come to Kansas.

dabvu2498
02-15-2008, 11:30 AM
IIRC, Kansas hired Mario Chalmers dad as their Athletic Director(or another high profile position) so he would come to Kansas.

Hired him as "Director of Basketball Operations," which is about a 20k a year job most places and is basically a "gopher" position. Mr. Chalmers would at least appear to be pretty qualified for the position considering the success he'd had as a high school coach. Is it shady? You bet... but not nearly as shady as the Duhon issue.

http://kuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/chalmers_ronnie00.html

http://www.truthaboutduke.com/duhon_nola.php

WMR
02-15-2008, 11:33 AM
Refresh me on what happened with Duhon.

dabvu2498
02-15-2008, 11:35 AM
Refresh me on what happened with Duhon.

I added the link above.

There were also pretty heavy talk about Carlos Boozer's father, IIRC.

Cedric
02-15-2008, 11:37 AM
Ok it sounds like what it always is people who hate Duke and Coach K spreading rumors.

Rumors? There isn't anything about Myron Piggie that is a rumor. I would research something before I call someone out on it. I can go into a lot more detail on the Duke situation if you want. I just figured that the Myron Piggie thing was common knowledge.

dabvu2498
02-15-2008, 11:55 AM
Rumors? There isn't anything about Myron Piggie that is a rumor. I would research something before I call someone out on it. I can go into a lot more detail on the Duke situation if you want. I just figured that the Myron Piggie thing was common knowledge.

http://www.sportslawnews.com/archive/Articles%202000/CommentDukeMagrette.htm

WMR
02-15-2008, 11:57 AM
How surprising that Coach "Let's Cut a Promo Commercial" K would allow such shenanigans to go on under his careful watch.

WMR
02-15-2008, 12:17 PM
Hearing reports of an IU news conference at 3 p.m. today...

WVRed
02-15-2008, 12:26 PM
It shouldnt surprise me about Duhon, but considering Kentucky finished second in trying to get Duhon, that is pretty nerve grating.

WMR
02-15-2008, 12:30 PM
SAMPSON PUTS HOOSIERS IN A HOLE

Dan Wetzel
Yahoo! Sports

Back in November 2006, on the eve of his first game as Indiana's new coach, Kelvin Sampson sat in his office (Bob Knight's old office) and tried to shrug off what had been his tumultuous start.

His hiring at Indiana had been slammed by fans and media as a clash of incompatible histories – his of an NCAA violation and a zero percent graduation rate against a school that valued its compliance and graduation records almost as much as its five national championships.

Distrusted by some – particularly Knight supporters – all Sampson could do was look to the future where he was confident he would win enough to make all those Hoosiers forgive him for a rocky start.

"My first two months here?" Sampson said that day. "Five years from now most people won't remember."

It is a promise that might prove prophetic if only because it now seems so pathetic.

Indeed, no one might recall his first two months when 2011 rolls around because a new coach might have long been in place and Sampson's final few days could overshadow everything.

Sampson is deep in a hole now, accused of five major rules infractions, mostly breaking the exact same statutes he did at Oklahoma. Perhaps even more troubling, he is accused of practicing dishonesty with both IU and NCAA investigators, a charge Sampson denies.

Indiana hasn't decided to fire him, but an IU source said the school will launch an internal investigation into the new allegations against Sampson on Friday and make a recommendation as soon as next week. The Hoosiers play host to Michigan State on Saturday.

"I feel we have to react in some way that's in the best interests of the team and the best interests of the university," trustee Philip Eskew Jr. told the Associated Press. "I think there are options."

If history is any indication, once this ship sails, once administrations lose trust in their coach, the end is inevitable.

Sampson, 52, is a proud, self-made man who blasted his way to the top of his profession on his own tenacity. He didn't play or work as an assistant for some famous coach. He wasn't just handed opportunities. His first head coaching job was at Montana Tech, of all places.

His climb to the top was remarkable.

His fall may be even more so.

The question running through college basketball is what in the world was Sampson thinking? In this cut-throat, hyper-competitive business everyone pushes for any advantage possible. But once he got the Indiana job, especially under the circumstances he did, his coaching peers figured he would keep it cool, for at least awhile.

Apparently he knows only one way to recruit.

After getting caught making 577 improper recruiting calls at Oklahoma – "deliberate noncompliance" the NCAA termed it – and after having a one year recruiting ban follow him to IU, what did Sampson and his staff do? They immediately made "more than 100 phone calls" that violated the terms of his probation.

And then, after offering up some nonsense public explanation, they apparently tried to cover it up.

Sampson already lost a half a million dollar raise at IU, had an assistant fired and saw the program self-punish last fall when the charges first came out. But now the NCAA wants more, now here comes the humiliation of Indiana's first major rules infraction. Ever.

And gone is one of the program's primary points of pride – purity.

For all the wild antics and divisive controversy of Knight's regime, IU fans could point out that during his tenure the NCAA caught just about every one of their regional rivals cheating – an almost perfect circle of corruption starting at Purdue and swinging around through Illinois, down to Louisville, Kentucky and Cincinnati and back up to Ohio State and over to Michigan.

"We took a lot of pride in that," said Ted Kitchel, a member of the 1981 NCAA championship team. "That was the culture we lived in because we had a coach who went to the extreme to make sure (of it).

"We entered games with teams where we felt our program did the right way and the other team didn't do it the right way," he continued. "When you won, it was, 'Put one more point on the side of the good guys.'"

Now Indiana isn't the good guys. Now it isn't any different than anyone else – except for one thing.

Generally when a school gets busted the reaction is to lash back at the NCAA, downplay the charges and support the coach at all costs. Few schools take real responsibility for their sins and invariably one of three people gets blamed for the entire ordeal – the rogue booster, the dumb, greedy athlete or the bumbling assistant.

Sampson wishes he could be so lucky. Even at 20-4 and with a team capable of winning the national championship, the heat is significant. To dodge responsibility is impossible and to hope for fans to rally around him is unlikely.

If anything, the calls have been to oust both Sampson and Greenspan, the man who boldly vouched for him over talented straight arrows such as John Beilein.

It's that sentiment that makes things tougher for Sampson. The Hoosier fan base is still fractured; there are some who feel the program is getting what it deserves for firing Knight back in 2000. Many, such as Kitchel, never supported Sampson and would welcome a change.

"I just never thought he was a good fit," Kitchel said. "He was a little bit of a con man on the sidelines. There (were) the violations. He never graduated anybody."

Sampson has refused to discuss in detail the current scandal and at this point, there isn't much he can say. In 2006, he said the original charges were misunderstood, that his graduation rate wasn't reflective of reality and he wasn't a bad guy. Today those explanations ring ridiculous.

"Nobody likes to be criticized," he said then. "Nobody likes to be called derogatory names. But I know who I am. I'm not going to change."

Apparently that was the problem.

Sampson is a likeable guy, blue collar and hard driving. After winning at so many unlikely stops, he was appreciative to have the chance at a traditional power in the middle of a mother lode of talent.

Indiana produces so many great players that four state schools – Butler, IU, Purdue and Notre Dame – are currently ranked in the top 20. Ohio State made the national title game a year ago because of two Indianapolis kids – Greg Oden and Mike Conley Jr.

So given his undeniable coaching acumen, Sampson was correct back in 2006. All he had to do was ride that local talent and stay out of trouble. It was simple, really.

In five years he would have won so many games that no one would have remembered his past.

Instead, just a season and a half later, he's made sure no one can forget it.

http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=774857

GoReds33
02-15-2008, 02:03 PM
The news confrence is at 3:00. It's going to be on Espnews.

WMR
02-15-2008, 03:08 PM
I just listened to the live press conference, and they're going to run a 7-day investigation as to the truthfulness of the allegations, and make a decision at that time.

Chip R
02-15-2008, 03:10 PM
I just listened to the live press conference, and they're going to run a 7-day investigation as to the truthfulness of the allegations, and make a decision at that time.


Oh for God's sake.

WMR
02-15-2008, 03:11 PM
If IU ultimately retains Sampson, I'm sorry, but their program will officially have become a joke.

Playadlc
02-15-2008, 03:33 PM
Oh for God's sake.

What else are they supposed to do? They are trying to put their ducks in a row so that they can fire him for just cause. Much as everyone would like it if McRobbie had placed Sampson on the guillotine today, he's following the steps outlined in an effort to save IU millions of dollars.

SunDeck
02-15-2008, 03:39 PM
What else are they supposed to do? They are trying to put their ducks in a row so that they can fire him for just cause. Much as everyone would like it if McRobbie had placed Sampson on the guillotine today, he's following the steps outlined in an effort to save IU millions of dollars.

Agreed- if they wait seven days and do it properly, all anyone will remember a year from now is that IU took their lumps and acted swiftly to rectify the situation. There is no need to fire him today; one day, a week, it's all the same and a pretty darned swift dismissal of a major university employee.

Revering4Blue
02-15-2008, 03:40 PM
Jason Whitlock is spot-on.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7801934

WMR
02-15-2008, 03:40 PM
I think IU fans would revolt if they DID try to keep him and that smarmy AD.

Playadlc
02-15-2008, 03:49 PM
Agreed- if they wait seven days and do it properly, all anyone will remember a year from now is that IU took their lumps and acted swiftly to rectify the situation. There is no need to fire him today; one day, a week, it's all the same and a pretty darned swift dismissal of a major university employee.

Listening to the presser today I really got the feeling from McRobbie that he would suspend him right now if he could, but he can't because of his contract. So IU is just going to ram through an investigation (7 days is really a short amount of time for an investigation of this magnitude) of stuff we already pretty much know and fire this coach next Friday.

I would be more than happy with that.

WMR
02-15-2008, 03:51 PM
Think they'll can the AD at the same time as Kelvin next week?

WMR
02-15-2008, 03:51 PM
He should be held just as culpable as KS.

GoReds33
02-15-2008, 03:56 PM
Think they'll can the AD at the same time as Kelvin next week?It's entirely possible. He apperantly doesn't have control of that department. He is in a high power position at a big school. It's his job to make sure things like this don't happen.

Was this the same guy who hired Sampson in the first place? If so, he should defenitly be canned. IMO, even without this happening, he wasn't the right man for the job.

WMR
02-15-2008, 03:57 PM
Yes, he hired Sampson.

Chip R
02-15-2008, 04:01 PM
What else are they supposed to do? They are trying to put their ducks in a row so that they can fire him for just cause. Much as everyone would like it if McRobbie had placed Sampson on the guillotine today, he's following the steps outlined in an effort to save IU millions of dollars.


They could suspend him. Every day this goes on it becomes a bigger distraction.

Playadlc
02-15-2008, 04:04 PM
Think they'll can the AD at the same time as Kelvin next week?

Honestly, when all this phone call stuff broke out, I think Greenspan (IU's AD) handled it about as well as he could have. IU hired an outside auditing firm to monitor recruiting activity inside the program. IU found the problem and self reported. He did what any professional athletic director should/would do.

But you can not overlook the fact that two years ago, Rick Greenspan was provided with a golden opportunity: the chance to return a historical top 5 basketball program to greatness. Two years later, the program is headed for NCAA probation and a recruiting nightmare and another coaching change. Yes, Greenspan has done some good things, but he has ruined, absolutely ruined the basketball program for the foreseeable future.

So yes, I do think he needs to go.

Playadlc
02-15-2008, 04:09 PM
They could suspend him. Every day this goes on it becomes a bigger distraction.

The only reason for not suspending Sampson sounds to be because there is no language in his contract that suggests that is an option without concern for legal repercussions (McRobbie specifically said there is nothing in his contract covering paid suspension without an investigation into wrong-doings).

In 7 days, Sampson will be gone and IU will be in the clear from any lawsuit (any effective one IMO).

Hoosier Red
02-15-2008, 04:11 PM
Honestly, when all this phone call stuff broke out, I think Greenspan (IU's AD) handled it about as well as he could have. IU hired an outside auditing firm to monitor recruiting activity inside the program. IU found the problem and self reported. He did what any professional athletic director should/would do.

But you can not overlook the fact that two years ago, Rick Greenspan was provided with a golden opportunity: the chance to return a historical top 5 basketball program to greatness. Two years later, the program is headed for NCAA probation and a recruiting nightmare and another coaching change. Yes, Greenspan has done some good things, but he has ruined, absolutely ruined the basketball program for the foreseeable future.

So yes, I do think he needs to go.

I don't think they will based on everything thats being said. There's some speculation I've heard that Sampson was not the AD's choice, rather he was the choice of the former president. Not sure the truthiness to that but it's out there.

Playadlc
02-15-2008, 04:14 PM
I don't think they will based on everything thats being said. There's some speculation I've heard that Sampson was not the AD's choice, rather he was the choice of the former president. Not sure the truthiness to that but it's out there.

I just don't buy it. Why was this not mentioned before? If so, that means Greenspan was overruled on a) firing MD after 2005 and b) selecting his own basketball coach. I think the idea that Sampson was hired over Greenspan's objections is a fairly silly notion, and one that was never even mentioned until the last week.

George Anderson
02-15-2008, 04:17 PM
I just don't buy it. Why was this not mentioned before? If so, that means Greenspan was overruled on a) firing MD after 2005 and b) selecting his own basketball coach. I think the idea that Sampson was hired over Greenspan's objections is a fairly silly notion, and one that was never even mentioned until the last week.

I am listening to Kravitz on 1070 and he has mentioned numerous times that Sampson was not Greenspans first choice. Greenspan prefered another candidate but the president of the university vetoed his choice for Sampson.

redsfanmia
02-15-2008, 05:03 PM
I am listening to Kravitz on 1070 and he has mentioned numerous times that Sampson was not Greenspans first choice. Greenspan prefered another candidate but the president of the university vetoed his choice for Sampson.

Seriously though how can you believe a word that comes out of Kravitz's mouth? He is the one who insulted Mr Dungy if you remember.

WVRed
02-15-2008, 05:18 PM
BTW, didn't Steve Alford turn down the IU job, or did Indiana decide they didn't want him?

Razor Shines
02-15-2008, 06:07 PM
Rumors? There isn't anything about Myron Piggie that is a rumor. I would research something before I call someone out on it. I can go into a lot more detail on the Duke situation if you want. I just figured that the Myron Piggie thing was common knowledge.

I know about Myron Piggie. I've been directed to truthaboutduke.com many times over the years. Maggette didn't receive any money while he was at Duke. There is no evidence that Duke or Coach K had any idea that he was taking money before he enrolled at Duke.

Maggette wasn't a true amateur so maybe the runner up finish should be wiped off the books. Either way the Duke admin. and coaches were all cleared, I don't see it as being Duke or Coach K's fault.

Razor Shines
02-15-2008, 06:08 PM
BTW, didn't Steve Alford turn down the IU job, or did Indiana decide they didn't want him?

I read somewhere that Alford interviewed and they said they'd get back with him, but never contacted him again. I can't remember where I read that though, I could be wrong.

Chip R
02-15-2008, 06:16 PM
BTW, didn't Steve Alford turn down the IU job, or did Indiana decide they didn't want him?


Oh, I don't think they'd hire Alford. He had a few problems of his own at Iowa. Plus he's not that good of a coach either.

Strikes Out Looking
02-15-2008, 08:11 PM
As I said earlier in the thread, Dakich is the man. By the way, does anyone know who Greenspan's choice supposedly was? As an IU alum, this whole episode pains me, but at least no chairs have been thrown...as of yet.

Scrap Irony
02-15-2008, 09:41 PM
Razor,

Sure, it's not only Piggie (entirely guilty, but ignored by the NCAA), Maggette (again, ignored by the NCAA), the commercials (a CLEAR violation of NCAA rules, but allowed and-- again-- ignored by the NCAA), the hiring of TWO high profile recruit parents (a questionable act, but one not against NCAA mandates), but also at least three instances of players able to graduate in 3 1/2 years with, in one case, a double major, all the while playing Division I basketball.

Is it possible? Sure. I guess.

Does it help to know each of the three scored at least 200 poitns below the average Duke student on the SAT and would not have been admitted to the school unless they were a basketball player?

Is it possible for each of these three young men to not only attend a (by all accounts) very difficult, high profile private school and thrive despite:
1) being woefully unprepared in high school or extremely poor test-takers
2) a close to 60-hour per week (conservatively, in season), extremely demanding "job"

Sure, it's possible.

But it sure sounds fishy to me.

Is any of this proof? Nope.

But, where there's smoke, there most assuredly is fire.

Duke is as guilty as all major Division I programs. Dirtier, in fact, than most.

Reds4Life
02-15-2008, 09:51 PM
I really have a hard time having pity for IU in any of this. They knew Sampson was a scumbag when they hired him and what they were getting into bed with.

On the other side, Bob Knight is available. ;)

SunDeck
02-15-2008, 10:00 PM
I really have a hard time having pity for IU in any of this. They knew Sampson was a scumbag when they hired him and what they were getting into bed with.

On the other side, Bob Knight is available. ;)

You know, here are a couple things I thought of after listening to the press conference from today.

1) Seven days is a pretty darned short period of time and it is hard to imagine that a full and thorough investigation can be completed in a week.

2) If Sampson was truly not Greenspan's man, then this is a heck of way for him to get rid of the guy. After all, these violations were originally reported to NCAA by IU because Greenspan had indeed put in place a system to monitor Sampson.

My prediction is that Sampson is gone by next Friday night. Greenspan stays and Dakich takes over.

George Anderson
02-15-2008, 10:15 PM
Seriously though how can you believe a word that comes out of Kravitz's mouth? He is the one who insulted Mr Dungy if you remember.

I don't particularly care for his columns but I really enjoy his radio show. He and his partner do a good job of stirring it up like WLW has been known to do.

As far as the Dungy controversy, not to get off subject but I somewhat agree with Kravitz comments about Dungy being a hypocrite by moving his family to Florida and staying in Indy.

George Anderson
02-15-2008, 10:16 PM
.

My prediction is that Sampson is gone by next Friday night. Greenspan stays and Dakich takes over.

I second that!!

WVRed
02-16-2008, 12:28 AM
My prediction is that Sampson is gone by next Friday night. Greenspan stays and Dakich takes over on an interim basis.

I fixed it for you.

Pretty sure IU will go for a high profile name even on probation. I'll be surprised if its anybody but Sean Miller.

Hoosier Red
02-16-2008, 12:41 PM
I fixed it for you.

Pretty sure IU will go for a high profile name even on probation. I'll be surprised if its anybody but Sean Miller.

Andy Kennedy and Tony Bennett were the other two names I've heard.
I think whoever it is will keep Dakich on staff to keep the Knight lovers from hating the new hire.

Hoosier Red
02-16-2008, 12:51 PM
I read somewhere that Alford interviewed and they said they'd get back with him, but never contacted him again. I can't remember where I read that though, I could be wrong.

Actually Alford told IU he was open to talking about the job, but would not interview. He said something to the effect, his record at SW Mizzou and Iowa stood for itself.
It was a smart move on his part because if he interviewed and was turned down, he looks like a schmo going back to Iowa.

SunDeck
02-16-2008, 04:38 PM
I fixed it for you.

Pretty sure IU will go for a high profile name even on probation. I'll be surprised if its anybody but Sean Miller.

Yeah, you're right. Dakich would only be interim. Good point.

Razor Shines
02-16-2008, 11:37 PM
Sampson seemed as if he knows the end is near for him at IU toward the end of tonight's game. I haven't seen him hug players as the come off the floor before.

One thing is for sure, the team really rallied around him and played very hard for him tonight. I just hope that they play that hard for Dakich. I doubt it though.

MWM
02-17-2008, 01:50 AM
Boy, people sure do throw the "scumbag" term around this forum quite often. While not excusing his breaking of the rules, I hardly think something like this qualifies someone for the title of "scumbag."

George Anderson
02-17-2008, 02:08 AM
Boy, people sure do throw the "scumbag" term around this forum quite often. While not excusing his breaking of the rules, I hardly think something like this qualifies someone for the title of "scumbag."

I'm not sure what your definition of "scumbag" is but for someone like Sampson to continue to cheat and then lie about his cheating after he had received numerous chances to redeem his past cheating problems certainly classifies him as a "scumbag" to me anyway.

WMR
02-17-2008, 02:12 AM
Boy, people sure do throw the "scumbag" term around this forum quite often. While not excusing his breaking of the rules, I hardly think something like this qualifies someone for the title of "scumbag."

Indiana fans take the honesty of their program pretty seriously.

MWM
02-17-2008, 02:33 AM
Come on, people. Does making too many phone calls to recruits really make someone a "scumbag"? Seriously?

Personally, I think the police officer in Cincy who killed his pregnant girlfriend is a scumbag. A college basketball coach who violated rules on the number of calls allowed to recruits hardly qualifies as a scumbag. A little perspective is sorely needed in this thread.

WMR
02-17-2008, 02:37 AM
Come on, people. Does making too many phone calls to recruits really make someone a "scumbag"? Seriously?

Personally, I think the police officer in Cincy who killed his pregnant girlfriend is a scumbag. A college basketball coach who violated rules on the number of calls allowed to recruits hardly qualifies as a scumbag. A little perspective is sorely needed in this thread.

A police officer who kills his pregnant girlfriend is a MONSTER.

A coach who lies to his school and the NCAA is a scumbag.

WMR
02-17-2008, 02:38 AM
Stop equivocating his crimes. He's a liar. Liars are scumbags.

George Anderson
02-17-2008, 02:48 AM
Come on, people. Does making too many phone calls to recruits really make someone a "scumbag"? Seriously?

Personally, I think the police officer in Cincy who killed his pregnant girlfriend is a scumbag. A college basketball coach who violated rules on the number of calls allowed to recruits hardly qualifies as a scumbag. A little perspective is sorely needed in this thread.

Its more than just a few phone calls. Sampson has been caught numerous times making MANY illegal phone calls and other violations and has been warned and punished several times for doing so. By his refusal to play by the rules many people who follow the Hoosiers let alone the players are going to suffer from being punished by the NCAA. A person that does this by my definition and many others definition is a "scumbag".

Repeated cheaters are "scumbags"

Murderers of innocent people deserve a way worse description than "scumbag" but I really can't think of one right now but throw one out there and I will likely agree with you!!

WMR
02-17-2008, 02:49 AM
Check my post, GA. MONSTER is an apt description.

MWM
02-17-2008, 03:11 AM
You guys take this stuff WAY too seriously if you think this whole phone call thing rises to the level where you'll publicly call someone a scumbag. I couldn't care less about IU basketball, but I'm not going sit here and pass the same kind of judgment on phone calls that I would paying players or cheating on grades, etc...

WMR
02-17-2008, 03:18 AM
You wouldn't feel any differently if it was recruiting violations committed by Ohio State or Michigan in football?

MWM
02-17-2008, 03:37 AM
Nope. One thing I've always been is consistent regardless of whether it was a team I follow or not or a team I can't stand. I honestly have no interest one way or the other in IU. I wouldn't think differently if it was Duke (which I can't stand) or any of the other programs I loathe. To me, he broke the rules (no matter how outdated or assinine they might be) and should face "some" consequences. But to me, this whole phone call thing isn't that big a deal and it's silly to equate this to the levels of cheating we've seen by dirty programs in the past. But to equate this type of stuff to the behavior of a "scumbag" is just melodramatic and shows a complete lack of perspective when it comes to sports. But hey, I've been around long enough to not be surprised that this is the case.

WMR
02-17-2008, 03:39 AM
Well, I think you're wrong.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

And I think the way you feel would place you in a very small minority.

Sports matters.

Integrity matters.

LYING MATTERS.

I think you're discounting what he ACTUALLY DID. It isn't truly about phone calls. It's about LYING and it's about INTEGRITY.

SunDeck
02-17-2008, 08:54 AM
Well, I think you're wrong.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

And I think the way you feel would place you in a very small minority.

Sports matters.

Integrity matters.

LYING MATTERS.

I think you're discounting what he ACTUALLY DID. It isn't truly about phone calls. It's about LYING and it's about INTEGRITY.

Count me in the small minority then. But not because I think what Sampson did is defensible, but because I think he is only on the hot seat because he got caught. "Elite" Div-1 basketball is full of coaches like Samspon. It is full of "student" athletes who couldn't simplify a fraction, it is full of greed and denial. Every once in a while NCAA will trot out one poor sap and hang him in the town square to create the illusion of oversight.

WMR
02-17-2008, 09:01 AM
Wow, I really don't get that argument, SD.

SunDeck
02-17-2008, 09:20 AM
At many levels within NCAA sports, what you say is absolutely correct WMR. But I am saying that within Div 1, high profile basketball, there is a different set of rules. It generates huge amounts of money for big colleges and for NCAA and those huge stakes and NCAA's denial have thoroughly altered the connection between the sport and the true meaning of college athletics. From AAU basketball to the cream of the crop in the NCAA, there are legions of guys just like Sampson and the NCAA does practically nothing to 99% of them.

I agree that sports and integrity matter. But to think that this particular incident is an example of NCAA enforcing honesty and integrity is just not accurate in my opinion. After all, if it hadn't been for a diligent intern, this never would have fallen in NCAA's lap in the first place.

Scrap Irony
02-17-2008, 10:25 AM
Agreed Sun. Is Sampson guilty? Sure, he is. Is this something most other programs do? Yep. Do ALL Division I programs of some quality cheat? Absolutely. It only makes sense.

Follow this logic. In the 1980's (and before), UK was found to have paid their players (or at least their recruit's families). $5000 in an Emory Freight package to play ball at UK, not to mention the $100 handshakes after each game, the girls, and the Lodge. In the early 90's, UNLV was supposedly paying recruits in excess of $50,000 a year to play ball. If I'm a high-end recruit who doesn't happen to bleed a particular color of fanatacism, where is this 18-year-old going to go? To the place which offers the best deal, of course. But, Scrap, though UK was fairly consistently in the Top Ten of recruiting, they weren't always tops. And, also, UNLV was a good recruiter, but not a great one.

There are two possibilities here:

1) Recruits and their families are, for the most part, altruistic and only concerned with their son's education. The money offered by some schools simply wasn't an option. Too, although they were honest about their choice of school, they chose (these hundreds and hundreds of possible recruits) NOT to turn in the dirty program.

Know anyone like that?

or

2) All elite (or those looking to break into the elite) Division I programs are dirty. All of them cheat and pay players. The NCAA looks the other way, for fear of public backlash and occasionally busts a program to look like they're doing their job.

I know which one I'd believe.

The only way I believe differently is if the NCAA busts both North Carolina and Duke for basketball violations. It'll never happen because these are THE two cash cows and flagship programs for NCAA baketball. "They do things right," according to the NCAA. Sure, they do. Uh-huh. Just like F$U and Florida in football (or Michigan, tOSU, LSU, and a host of others).

Chip R
02-17-2008, 01:39 PM
The only way I believe differently is if the NCAA busts both North Carolina and Duke for basketball violations. It'll never happen because these are THE two cash cows and flagship programs for NCAA baketball. "They do things right," according to the NCAA. Sure, they do. Uh-huh. Just like F$U and Florida in football (or Michigan, tOSU, LSU, and a host of others).


Then why did Kentucky ever go on probation then? It certainly meets the definition of a flagship program and a cash cow. One of the problems the NCAA has in trying to find schools that cheat is that they have no subpoena power. They can't get a kid or a parent or a coach or a booster to talk to them if they don't want to and they certainly can't get them to tell them the truth if they do talk.

BRM
02-18-2008, 03:28 PM
You been keeping a low profile these past few days, BRM... how's everything

Got a house full of sick people, including me. Been that way for nearly a week. Thanks for the concern though.

During the MSU game on Saturday, Dick Vitale seemed certain that Sampson would get fired by the end of the week and said he thought it would be the right move. He said Greenspan should go as well. It's rare but I agree with Dickie V on both counts.

WMR
02-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Got a house full of sick people, including me. Been that way for nearly a week. Thanks for the concern though.

During the MSU game on Saturday, Dick Vitale seemed certain that Sampson would get fired by the end of the week and said he thought it would be the right move. He said Greenspan should go as well. It's rare but I agree with Dickie V on both counts.

Don't worry, Dabvu has picked up the slack in the "Give Wily Mo Hell" campaign. :lol:

WMR
02-18-2008, 03:36 PM
My dad's had the flu the past week or so... feeling any better yet?

Playadlc
02-18-2008, 06:11 PM
Come on, people. Does making too many phone calls to recruits really make someone a "scumbag"? Seriously?

Personally, I think the police officer in Cincy who killed his pregnant girlfriend is a scumbag. A college basketball coach who violated rules on the number of calls allowed to recruits hardly qualifies as a scumbag. A little perspective is sorely needed in this thread.

Completely agree with this. I view the word scumbag exactly how you do.

Kelvin Sampson is not a bad person. He has shown by his actions that he cares about his kids, cares about his community, cares about his country, and has done more for all of those than most of the folks calling him names. I just think Sampson divides all the rules and policies to which he's subject into those with moral content and those without, and when rules in the latter group get in the way of achieving his professional goals, he violates them without guilt. It's unfortunate that he feels this way, too. It's going to cost him his job.

Hoosier Red
02-18-2008, 07:17 PM
My friend had an excellent analogy to this situation.

This is the equivalent of running a stop sign, being pulled over and paying a ticket.
Then going around the block, running the same stop sign with your middle finger extended at the cop.

bucksfan2
02-19-2008, 08:49 AM
Completely agree with this. I view the word scumbag exactly how you do.

Kelvin Sampson is not a bad person. He has shown by his actions that he cares about his kids, cares about his community, cares about his country, and has done more for all of those than most of the folks calling him names. I just think Sampson divides all the rules and policies to which he's subject into those with moral content and those without, and when rules in the latter group get in the way of achieving his professional goals, he violates them without guilt. It's unfortunate that he feels this way, too. It's going to cost him his job.

I don't care if Sampson is a good person or a bad person he has a problem with following the rules he is supposed to follow. He is also a pretty poor role model for a group of 18-22 year olds when he disregards the rules he wants to and follows others. Sampson did nothing illegal, however he violated rules that he was suposed to abide by. Its similar to your boss telling you that long distance phone calls are prohibited at work. You dont' like the rule so you don't follow it. You then are fired because you broke the rules that the company set forth.

It doesn't matter whether you like the rules or not you still have to follow them. I want to walk down the street drinking a beer but the rules dictate that I am not allowed. If I do so I am taking an risk knowing that if I am caught doing so I will be ticketed. If I am walking from my house to a neighbor's house then I am pretty much in the clear. However if I am bar hopping then I am taking an even bigger risk. Sampson knew the risk he was taking and knew it had to be elevated because of his past transgressions yet he still violated those rules. He deserves to be fired and fired yesterday. Good guy or not he just can't follow the rules.

BuckeyeRedleg
02-19-2008, 09:09 AM
My friend had an excellent analogy to this situation.

This is the equivalent of running a stop sign, being pulled over and paying a ticket.
Then going around the block, running the same stop sign with your middle finger extended at the cop.

And then claiming you did not know you ran the stop sign and you didn't realize you were extending your middle finger to the cop.

flyer85
02-19-2008, 10:01 AM
IU is going thru their version of "due process" to try an ensure they don't have to pay any money to Sampson. They are not re-investigating but instead using the NCAA report.

I believe it was Bilas that said they have already decided what they are going to do and they are going through this process so they can justify it.

BRM
02-19-2008, 10:01 AM
Don't worry, Dabvu has picked up the slack in the "Give Wily Mo Hell" campaign. :lol:

I knew I could count on him. ;)


My dad's had the flu the past week or so... feeling any better yet?

I'm not feeling too bad but my wife and oldest daughter still feel terrible.

BRM
02-19-2008, 01:14 PM
Pat Forde on tonight's matchup with Purdue.



Looks like the last game for Kelvin Sampson, the coach with the blue shirt and the blackened reputation. He could well be fired at the end of the week after being charged by the NCAA with major rules violations. The surreal atmosphere of the Hoosiers' past two home games, since the NCAA allegations surfaced publicly, should only intensify for this one.

It also happens to be the only regular-season meeting between two of the game's fiercest rivals. And first place is on the line in the Big Ten. And one of Purdue's stars, Robbie Hummel, had his name surface in the NCAA Enforcement letter of inquiry as an alleged target for some of the Hoosiers' impermissible phone calls.

Razor Shines
02-19-2008, 09:15 PM
Gosh I'd like to have Robbie Hummel on the Hoosiers. As great as Gordon is I'd trade his one year for Hummel's four in a second.

Really solid win for the Hoosiers though. The offense was a little sketchy at times, but it has certainly looked better in the last two games. DJ White is pretty good. I'm glad that they played mostly man to man tonight instead of the zone. They've got the horses for man defense, I'm glad to see that Sampson is using them.

Mustberger and Lavin were giving a lot of love to Sampson tonight. The crowd seemed to be mostly in his favor also. I don't care how much the fans like him now or how well the team is playing now, I'm still in favor of Dakich taking over for the rest of the season.

redsfanmia
02-20-2008, 07:24 AM
Gosh I'd like to have Robbie Hummel on the Hoosiers. As great as Gordon is I'd trade his one year for Hummel's four in a second.

Gordon forces way to much stuff for my taste, I am honestly not that big of a fan of his. I will not miss watching him jack up 25 foot jumpers and then see the pouty expression on his face when he misses them.

Looks like Sampson is done and none too soon for my taste, but the problem is do you really trust Greenspan to help select his successor?

BRM
02-20-2008, 09:48 AM
Gosh I'd like to have Robbie Hummel on the Hoosiers. As great as Gordon is I'd trade his one year for Hummel's four in a second.


So would I. I really like Robbie Hummel's game.

The crowd and the announcing crew were definitely in Sampson's corner last night. Much different from Saturday's game.

BRM
02-20-2008, 10:35 AM
From Pat Forde last night.



The endgame is here, the outcome verging on preordained. Kelvin Sampson stands accused of five major NCAA violations, at a school with a history of playing it clean. If there is another Indiana basketball game in his future, he's pulled off an upset comparable to a No. 16 seed beating a No. 1.

Later this week, a suspension of Sampson for the purpose of eventual termination is likely, according to a source familiar with the situation. Sampson would have 10 days to appeal to save his job, but his fate would virtually be sealed.

The source said a less likely option would be an agreed-upon settlement between Sampson and the school resulting in a resignation later this week.

A third option, least likely of all, is for Sampson's lawyer, NCAA defender to the stars Mike Glazier, to prevail upon IU for more time. That could mean an extension of the school's seven-day reinvestigation of the NCAA Enforcement findings, which started last Friday, or a delay in firing Sampson until after the season. The argument for such an extension would be a rush to judgment, on the part of the NCAA and the school.

Expect a suspension Thursday or Friday, then expect to see assistant Dan Dakich coaching the Hoosiers Saturday at Northwestern. And for the rest of the season.

Sampson likely will be cooked in Bloomington, taking 498 career college victories into limbo. It would be hard to see him landing another head-coaching job, especially if the Committee on Infractions slaps a show-cause order on any future employer.

Sad, in a way, and puzzling that it's come to this. Few people believe a coach of Sampson's talents needed to cheat to win, and fewer still believe Sampson needed to cheat at a power like Indiana to win big.

Hoosier Red
02-20-2008, 10:42 AM
Gordon forces way to much stuff for my taste, I am honestly not that big of a fan of his. I will not miss watching him jack up 25 foot jumpers and then see the pouty expression on his face when he misses them.

Looks like Sampson is done and none too soon for my taste, but the problem is do you really trust Greenspan to help select his successor?

I'm curious about that, I really don't see him force too many jumpers. His shots are deeper than the line but generally he shoots them in rhythm and in the flow of the offense.
The only place I've seen him "force" things is driving to the lane out of control, but the refs generally bail him out there and call a foul on the opponent.

Jordan Crawford and Ellis both force more "bad" three point attempts in my opinion.


That said, I'd really like to have Robbie Hummel. If only Kelvin had made a few more calls:)

Revering4Blue
02-20-2008, 03:54 PM
Looks like Sampson is done and none too soon for my taste, but the problem is do you really trust Greenspan to help select his successor?

Assuming Greenspan is still around, yes, so long as he doesn't make the mistake of pacifying the Bob Knight minions by limiting the search to coaches with I.U/Indiana ties.

BRM
02-20-2008, 04:04 PM
Steve Lavin claimed last night that former IU president Adam Herbert was the one who pushed for Sampson to get hired in the first place.

SunDeck
02-20-2008, 04:10 PM
Steve Lavin claimed last night that former IU president Adam Herbert was the one who pushed for Sampson to get hired in the first place.

I have heard that from several places, but I don't know how credible it is. However, if it is true then it does lend some credence to having Greenspan do this "investigation". It would be harder to understand how he could be investigating the guy if he was his hire in the first place.

Hoosier Red
02-20-2008, 06:01 PM
I keep thinking of "Throw Momma from the Train"
Danny Devito hits Billy Chrystal with a frying pan.

"You lied to me"

That's what this investigation amounts to.

Razor Shines
02-20-2008, 06:17 PM
Gordon forces way to much stuff for my taste, I am honestly not that big of a fan of his. I will not miss watching him jack up 25 foot jumpers and then see the pouty expression on his face when he misses them.

I pretty much agree with Hoosier Red on this one.

I don't really have a problem with most of the shots Gordon takes. He's so strong and quick he's almost impossible to guard one on one. The defense pretty much has to foul to stop him. So he may force things a bit some times but if he's getting to the line (like he usually does) is it really a bad thing. He shoots 47% from the field and 40% from the three point line, those numbers don't strike me as someone taking too many shots. And I certainly don't mind how deep his shots are taken from, for a good shooter that range is not difficult.

I didn't mean to make it seem like I don't like Gordon with the comment about Hummel, because I like Gordon a lot. Just to follow up on the earlier comment, I would take 4 years of Gordon over 4 years of Hummel in a second also. It's just that we aren't going to get more than 1 year of Gordon.

WMR
02-20-2008, 06:31 PM
I really think Gordon might struggle in the NBA (at least at first). He's really undersized for a 2 in the NBA and while he's very strong versus college players, he will be one of the weaker 2's when he enters into the NBA... his size will hurt him at the next level, IMO.

redsfanmia
02-20-2008, 06:40 PM
I pretty much agree with Hoosier Red on this one.

I don't really have a problem with most of the shots Gordon takes. He's so strong and quick he's almost impossible to guard one on one. The defense pretty much has to foul to stop him. So he may force things a bit some times but if he's getting to the line (like he usually does) is it really a bad thing. He shoots 47% from the field and 40% from the three point line, those numbers don't strike me as someone taking too many shots. And I certainly don't mind how deep his shots are taken from, for a good shooter that range is not difficult.

I didn't mean to make it seem like I don't like Gordon with the comment about Hummel, because I like Gordon a lot. Just to follow up on the earlier comment, I would take 4 years of Gordon over 4 years of Hummel in a second also. It's just that we aren't going to get more than 1 year of Gordon.

I did not mean he takes too many shots, I meant he takes too many 25 foot jumpers for my taste. He is a great player and if he stayed one more year he would probably be the discussion for player of the year.

Razor Shines
02-20-2008, 06:40 PM
I really think Gordon might struggle in the NBA (at least at first). He's really undersized for a 2 in the NBA and while he's very strong versus college players, he will be one of the weaker 2's when he enters into the NBA... his size will hurt him at the next level, IMO.

He's the same height and weight as Dwayne Wade. He reminds me of Wade a little except he can shoot from far away and Wade can't. But if you want to gather up a bunch of reasons why he should wait to go to NBA and send them to him, I'd be all for it.

Razor Shines
02-20-2008, 06:42 PM
I did not mean he takes too many shots, I meant he takes too many 25 foot jumpers for my taste. He is a great player and if he stayed one more year he would probably be the discussion for player of the year.

Again 25 feet is nothing to a good shooter. Hell, I could hit 7 of 10 unguarded from that range.

And I agree about him being player of the year if he stayed next season.

WMR
02-20-2008, 06:43 PM
He doesn't possess near the explosion of Dwayne Wade, IMO.

WMR
02-20-2008, 06:45 PM
D-Wade is also a much better passer, IMO. D-Wade can get away with being a PG-SG hybrid. Don't see that with Gordon.

Razor Shines
02-20-2008, 06:58 PM
D-Wade is also a much better passer, IMO. D-Wade can get away with being a PG-SG hybrid. Don't see that with Gordon.

I watched Gordon a lot in high school and one of the things that most impressed me was his passing ability. He hasn't shown it as much in college, in fact he's been really bad at times, but I'm pretty confident that the things I saw him do will resurface with time. It's the kind of stuff that can't be taught.


He doesn't possess near the explosion of Dwayne Wade, IMO.
I agree that he's not as explosive as Wade. But he's also got some time to mature and develop, it could come with time. I don't remember what Wade was like at 18. But I think his first year will certainly be a tough one in the NBA.

WMR
02-20-2008, 07:01 PM
I remember seeing him at Marquette in the NCAAs... :( :( :(

Hell, I could be wrong about Gordon... just going off what I have observed this season.

And I watch a BUNCH of IU games, FWIW.

guttle11
02-20-2008, 07:02 PM
DWade was a junior when he led Marquette to the Final Four.

Eric Gordan is a freshmen.

Why compare? Besides, Wade falls down 7 times, gets up 8, but only got hit 3.

WMR
02-20-2008, 07:05 PM
puhhhhlease

Hoosier Red
02-20-2008, 09:34 PM
I was talking about that with a bunch of bitter Purwho fans last night. I agree he may have trouble initially.

With all the controversy I'd doubt he would stay, but I really think he would make himself a lot of money by staying.
If he goes out this year, he's one of the many freshman to come out, he's behind Beasley, Rose, probably Walker, Love and then any non freshman who may also get drafted ahead of him.

If he stays he'd be the best player in the game next year.

WMR
02-20-2008, 09:36 PM
Ummmmm... best in the game behind Patrick Patterson.

dabvu2498
02-21-2008, 08:10 AM
FWIW, Love will likely stay at least one more year at UCLA.

Also, latest NBA Draft projections: http://www.nbadraft.net/

Gordon's profile there: http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/ericgordon.html They say his comp is Mitch Richmond. That's not too bad.

dabvu2498
02-21-2008, 08:11 AM
BTW, I heard the some news you Indiana fans will appreciate. Greenspan does know how to hire a good basketball coach. Yep. True. When he was at Illinois State he hired Kevin Stallings. :)

Revering4Blue
02-21-2008, 01:33 PM
Bloomington - Indiana University is making plans to finish the basketball season without Kelvin Sampson. The coach of the Hoosiers is not expected to be with the team when they play at Northwestern Saturday.

A source close to the situation tells Eyewitness Sports that officials from the IU administration have met with assistant basketball coach Dan Dakich about taking over the basketball team as interim head coach for the rest of the season.

Dakich began this season in an administrative position with the team. He became an assistant coach when assistant coach Rob Senderoff resigned in October for his involvement in improper phone calls to recruits. Dakich is a former IU player and assistant coach under Bob Knight.

Athletic director Rick Greenspan must make a recommendation to the president by Friday regarding Sampson's future and the NCAA allegations. The program is accused of five possible major recruiting violations, and Sampson is accused of lying to IU and the NCAA about it.

The source says that by Friday afternoon, Sampson and the university will likely reach a financial settlement ending his employment, or Sampson will be suspended pending termination under the terms of his contract.

The Hoosiers play at Northwestern Saturday night. IU is still contender for the Big Ten title, just a half game out of first place.

It does not appear that Coach Sampson will finish the season with the Hoosiers.


http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=7904939

Chip R
02-21-2008, 01:35 PM
If you have seen the movie "Swngers" you'll enjoy this article from ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/080221

dabvu2498
02-21-2008, 01:40 PM
http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=7904939

Similar article at the Indy Star:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080221/SPORTS0601/802210490/-1/LOCAL17

With this added tidbit:


NEXT UP AT IU?

If Kelvin Sampson resigns, is suspended or fired, an interim coach will step in and potential permanent successors will become water cooler fodder in short order. Here are 10 to consider:

Steve Alford (New Mexico): The favorite son, but the timing might not be right: His Lobos are 20-6 in his first season.

Dan Dakich (IU assistant): Strong ties to IU and Bob Knight, but didn't make NCAA Tournament in 10 years as Bowling Green coach.

Ray McCallum (IU assistant): Had seven consecutive winning seasons and two NCAA Tournament teams as Ball State coach.

Scott Skiles (unemployed): Has good NBA experience and state ties, but should Indiana be anyone's first college job?

Bruce Pearl (Tennessee): Hot coach with ties to the state from his University of Southern Indiana days. The stars might have to be aligned for this to happen.

Brad Brownell (Wright State): Still among the "hot young coach" set. His team is 19-6 and in second in the Horizon League.

Sean Miller (Xavier): Frequently mentioned. Beat IU earlier. His team is 22-4 and leading the Atlantic 10.

Tom Izzo (Michigan State): Long shot. Coaches rarely go from one successful conference team to another, but if you're going to raid a rival, might as well go after the best.

Kevin Stallings (Vanderbilt): Frequently mentioned in 2006 because of his ties to IU athletic director Rick Greenspan. But would IU hire a former Purdue player?

Pat Knight (Texas Tech): No more far-fetched than his dad returning, though Pat once said he'd rather pick strawberries than coach at IU.


Brownell is a hell of a coach, BTW. Not sure he's ready for IU, but he'll be coaching in a major conference soon. WSU plays ugly, but effective basketball.

bucksfan2
02-21-2008, 01:56 PM
I keep seing Sean Miller in the mix for Indiana but I don't see it. He is not a midwest guy and he already had a pretty good job as it is. The only job I can really seing him leave for is Pitt, PSU, or a job in that region of the country.

Revering4Blue
02-21-2008, 02:01 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if the next coach isn't even listed. I would not rule out Georgia Tech's Paul Hewitt or BC's Al Skinner. As I've already stated, this Indiana ties fixation is overblown.

Reds Fanatic
02-21-2008, 02:18 PM
Looks like Sampson will be fired tomorrow:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7824932


As it turns out, Indiana's 77-68 victory over Purdue last Tuesday will be Kelvin Sampson's last as the Hoosiers head coach.

Sampson was informed early Thursday that he will no longer be the coach at Indiana, numerous sources told FOXSports.com.

The official announcement is expected to come Friday, when the university's self-imposed seven-day investigation period ends.

When asked to confirm Sampson's firing, Indiana director of media relations J.D. Campbell told FOXSports.com, "I don't know that to be true."

Campbell also said no official announcement was currently scheduled for Friday.

All signs point to Indiana assistant Dan Dakich, a former Hoosier player and assistant coach under Bob Knight, taking the reins for the remainder of the season.

Hoosier Red
02-21-2008, 02:56 PM
Wonder if this is the same Foxsports reporter whom Sampson told DJ wasn't playing on Tuesday.

SunDeck
02-21-2008, 09:59 PM
From the Herald Time Blog:


Source: Sampson out
• By Doug | Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 9:31 pm | 7 Comments »

We don’t have any details at this point on whether it will be a resignation or a suspension leading to a firing, but we’ve heard tonight from a source close to this situation that Kelvin Sampson’s fate at IU has been decided.

We’ll provide more details as they become available.

In a subsequent comment, HT reporters insisted that this source had direct knowledge of the situation. :rolleyes:
Players met with university officials at 3pm without Sampson- WISH TV is reporting that buyout negotiations are underway right now.

SunDeck
02-21-2008, 10:15 PM
Look at this- same dumb reporter. Has this man a critical bone in his body? No, because he thinks he scoops ESPN and FoxSports if he gets it right. I predict his next entry will say that Pat Knight was seen at Nick's.


Another source: Greenspan tells players nothing has been decided
• By Doug | Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 10:06 pm | No Comments »

Every time the muddled picture of what exactly is happening with the Sampson decision appears to becoming clearer, it gets muddied again.

We just heard from a source close to the basketball program who talked with players attending the meeting tonight with Rick Greenspan. The source said the players were told that nothing has yet been decided on Sampson’s fate. The players told Greenspan that it wouldn’t be fair for anyone other than Sampson to coach the team, the source said.

Neither Dan Dakich nor Ray McCallum has been approached to serve as interim coach, according to the source.

Greenspan is still in his office at 10 p.m. with reporters waiting outside, and it sounds like those reporters may not get to speak with him tonight. I was just told that his son took a pillow inside.

BRM
02-22-2008, 09:33 AM
And I watch a BUNCH of IU games, FWIW.

You have to get a touch of class from somewhere, right? ;)

Reds Fanatic
02-22-2008, 09:43 AM
According to this some players have threatened to quit if Sampson is fired.

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10659277



A Thursday night meeting between Indiana athletic director Rick Greenspan and the school's basketball team became heated when players threatened to quit if the AD follows through with a plan to remove Kelvin Sampson as the Hoosiers' coach, two sources have told CBSSports.com.


According to the sources, after Greenspan informed five selected players -- namely D.J. White, Eric Gordon, Kyle Taber, Lance Stemler and Adam Ahlfeld -- of his decision to replace Sampson he called a meeting with the entire team in an attempt to "prepare" them for Friday's official announcement that Sampson would either be suspended or terminated in time for the Hoosiers' weekend game at Northwestern. But before Greenspan finished his speech, the sources said an unidentified player stood up and insisted "if Sampson ain't coaching, we ain't playing" and that Greenspan responded with what he thought was a rhetorical question.

"Greenspan asked if he should just cancel the whole season," one source said. "And the player told him 'We don't care what you do. But if Sampson ain't coaching, we ain't playing.' And then they just walked out."

An Indiana television station shot video of the IU players leaving the meeting.

The players declined comment upon exiting.

According to the sources, Greenspan asked Sampson to resign Thursday night but Sampson -- who was alleged in a report released last week to have committed five major NCAA rules violations -- rejected the request. The sources said it now appears Sampson is daring the school to fire him and that such a move would almost certainly lead to a lawsuit because Sampson still insists he is not guilty of lying to NCAA investigators or IU administrators, and that if the school was going to fire him for impermissible phone calls it should've done that when it learned of the calls in October.

Either way, Indiana is expected to hold a news conference Friday.

Hoosier Red
02-22-2008, 09:43 AM
http://www.thermocaster.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/iushame.jpg


Also apparantly an unnamed player threatened to quit the team if IU fires Sampson.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10659277

dabvu2498
02-22-2008, 09:58 AM
http://www.sportshollywood.com/images/hoosiers/chitwood.jpg

I play, coach stays. He goes, I go. -- Jimmy Chitwood

BRM
02-22-2008, 10:09 AM
If Sampson has proof he didn't lie to the school or the NCAA, that will make this whole thing very interesting.

bucksfan2
02-22-2008, 10:33 AM
If Sampson has proof he didn't lie to the school or the NCAA, that will make this whole thing very interesting.

Please explain. Whether or not he lied does that have any bearing on the fact that he broke the rules?

BRM
02-22-2008, 10:50 AM
Please explain. Whether or not he lied does that have any bearing on the fact that he broke the rules?

Just what the article says. If all they have is improper calls to recruits, why didn't they fire him back in October when they first learned of it? Why wait? The only new charge from the NCAA is the lying.

BRM
02-22-2008, 11:51 AM
An IU official is claiming the story about players threatening not to play is bunk. Per Andy Katz...




Indiana athletic director Rick Greenspan has made his decision on whether Kelvin Sampson will continue to coach the Hoosiers and is discussing it with university president Michael McRobbie this morning, as well, a high-ranking IU official said.

Greenspan will then meet with Sampson and a statement from the university will be issued later Friday. The official said Sampson is not privy to his fate. Sampson spent Thursday preparing for the Hoosiers' Big Ten game on Saturday at Northwestern.

The IU official would not comment on the school's decision.

"No decision was made until this morning, I cannot stress that enough," the official said in reference to various reports Thursday that claimed a decision to fire Sampson already had been made. "All those reports about it being made yesterday and of the players being told and of the team threatening not to play were not true. It's pure science fiction.

"The content of the meeting with the players was to keep them focused on the season and to [allow them to] ask questions at that time.'"

IU officials said the players attended a regularly scheduled compliance meeting Thursday afternoon. The Hoosiers did not practice Wednesday or Thursday after beating Purdue on Tuesday.

WMR
02-22-2008, 12:07 PM
You have to get a touch of class from somewhere, right? ;)

Most Ironic Post of the Year Award goes to BRM!!!

CONGRATS, BUDDY!!

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:08 PM
Most Ironic Post of the Year Award goes to BRM!!!

CONGRATS, BUDDY!!

I thought you would like it.

WMR
02-22-2008, 12:09 PM
I thought you would like it.

How are YOU celebrating the Josh Fogg signing?

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:12 PM
How are YOU celebrating the Josh Fogg signing?

By focusing on the IU coaching situation...

WMR
02-22-2008, 12:14 PM
By focusing on the IU coaching situation...

When's the announcement going to be made today?

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:15 PM
They haven't set a time yet.

SunDeck
02-22-2008, 12:17 PM
When's the announcement going to be made today?

McRobbie is up in Indy meeting with the Chinese ambassador, maybe looking for a 7 footer for next year's squad, so he and Greenspan will meet later on today. No word from IU on when they will announce a decision, but my guess is we can expect it late afternoon.

WMR
02-22-2008, 12:25 PM
How are your emotions about this whole thing?

I don't know if I'd be more pissed at Kelvin or at the idiotic IU administration that hired him in the first place...

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:26 PM
Sampson is pretty much done, that much is obvious. It's just a matter of how at this point. Suspension first, then termination or will they come right out and fire him today? We'll know soon enough.

I've moved past that and I'm now curious to see what the players do after the season. What will Jordan Crawford and Armon Bassett do? I hope they stick around but it won't surprise me if they transfer.

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:27 PM
How are your emotions about this whole thing?

I don't know if I'd be more pissed at Kelvin or at the idiotic IU administration that hired him in the first place...

I'm not mad at Kelvin. We knew all about him before he was hired. This isn't shocking in the least. I was ticked at the administration when they first hired him and that hasn't changed for me.

WMR
02-22-2008, 12:28 PM
On one of the UK boards I read they were wondering whether Jordan might seek a transfer to UK...

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:31 PM
On one of the UK boards I read they were wondering whether Jordan might seek a transfer to UK...

I was told his brother Joe isn't a big fan of Billy Clyde. If that's true, I'd guess Jordan won't be headed to Lexington.

WMR
02-22-2008, 12:33 PM
Joe has actually come around. He is having his best season ever as a Cat. He and Ramel have really gone "all in" with coach BCG.

WMR
02-22-2008, 12:34 PM
I just sort of doubt that Jordan is the type of player interested in going through what coach BCG demands of his players...

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:37 PM
Joe has actually come around. He is having his best season ever as a Cat. He and Ramel have really gone "all in" with coach BCG.

I sent an email asking my buddy where he heard that exactly. He works with some folks that have ties to UK, whatever that means.

Honestly, I thought the same thing you mentioned when this first broke, Jordan to UK. I hope not but it wouldn't surprise me. I figured he was a true Sampson guy seeing as how he spurned Michigan State and Michigan to come to IU. Bassett is from Indiana so there is a chance he was going to IU all along no matter who the coach was.

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:39 PM
I just sort of doubt that Jordan is the type of player interested in going through what coach BCG demands of his players...

Good point.

BRM
02-22-2008, 12:56 PM
I just saw a rumor of a 2:00 EST press conference. That's coming up pretty quick. We'll see.

HoosierNation.com is also claiming the players want Ray McCallum to take over as interim, not Dakich.

SunDeck
02-22-2008, 01:49 PM
McRobbie is still not back from Indy yet.

BRM
02-22-2008, 01:52 PM
Lots of stuff all over the 'net right now. Journalists and bloggers with "inside sources" are reporting all kinds of things. Typical.

SunDeck
02-22-2008, 02:09 PM
I think what's happening here is that all the local guys are just going to blog everything. Something will end up being right and they can get the scoop.

SunDeck
02-22-2008, 03:04 PM
This seems a little more credible. A little:


Players told that Sampson suspended, Dakich to serve as interim coach
• By Doug | Friday, February 22, 2008 at 2:38 pm | 3 Comments »

Athletic director Rick Greenspan told the Indiana team today that Kelvin Sampson will be suspended and Dan Dakich will serve as interim coach, according to a family member of an IU player and a source who spoke with an IU player.

H-T reporter Chris Korman spoke with both of these sources. He does not have further details about the suspension.

Sampson’s contract specifies that he would be suspended without pay - pending an appeal process - if Greenspan makes a recommendation to fire him for cause, but we do not know if that has happened.

BRM
02-22-2008, 03:06 PM
The Indy Star is now reporting the story about the players boycotting.


Indiana University men's basketball players walked out of a Thursday night meeting with athletic director Rick Greenspan, refusing to play the rest of the season if coach Kelvin Sampson is dismissed, a person familiar with the situation said today.

During the meeting, Greenspan told players about what course of action the school might take regarding Sampson, the source said. The source was told Jamarcus Ellis walked out of the meeting.

IU plays at Northwestern on Saturday. The source said players will follow the lead of D.J. White.

"As far as them playing, it depends on D.J.," the source said. "He's the leader. He's the cornerstone. Whatever D.J. does, they're all going to do."

The players met again today. Afterward, WTHR-13 asked White if the players were planning a boycott.

"The only thing I will say is, 'I will not say it's not true,'" the station quoted him as saying.

Asked if the players are still planning to walk out after today's meeting, the source said, "I know they were. I don't know if they are now."

The players want assistant Ray McCallum to take over if Sampson is going because McCallum was involved in recruiting several of them, the source said.

Assistant Dan Dakich joined the staff this year as an administrative assistant before being promoted following the dismissal of Rob Senderoff, who was involved in many of the recruiting violations, according to IU's initial internal report.

Earlier in the day, Chipola junior college coach Greg Heiar, who coached Ellis and DeAndre Thomas, said the players were firm in their desire to play for Sampson.

"I talked to Jamarcus about four days ago. Jamarcus went there to play for coach Sampson. I think the players' point is, they went there to play for coach Sampson. It's not fair to the players. You can see if they do it at the end of the season, but it's not fair now. They want to play for him," Heiar said.

BRM
02-22-2008, 03:26 PM
The Bloomington Herald-Times' blog is reporting he'll be suspended without pay.



Athletic director Rick Greenspan told the Indiana team today that Kelvin Sampson will be suspended and Dan Dakich will serve as interim coach, according to a family member of an IU player and a source who spoke with an IU player.

H-T reporter Chris Korman spoke with both of these sources. He does not have further details about the suspension.

Sampson’s contract specifies that he would be suspended without pay - pending an appeal process - if Greenspan makes a recommendation to fire him for cause, but we do not know if that has happened.

Razor Shines
02-22-2008, 03:35 PM
OTL is reporting that there will be a 4pm presser and that they will announce that Sampson will be suspended without pay.

BRM
02-22-2008, 03:39 PM
I have this sinking feeling that the Hoosier basketball program is going to struggle the next couple of years, at least. I would imagine nearly every 2008-2009 recruit will be going elsewhere now as well as 2 or 3 current players transferring.

Razor Shines
02-22-2008, 03:43 PM
I have this sinking feeling that the Hoosier basketball program is going to struggle the next couple of years, at least. I would imagine nearly every 2008-2009 recruit will be going elsewhere now as well as 2 or 3 current players transferring.

Yep. I see the same thing happening. But if it means getting a really good young coach in here then I'd be willing to put up with it.

BRM
02-22-2008, 03:45 PM
Yep. I see the same thing happening. But if it means getting a really good young coach in here then I'd be willing to put up with it.

I hope my post didn't come across as support for Sampson because that wasn't my intent. I would be willing to put up with a couple years of rebuilding too if that's what it takes. The key is getting the right coach this time around.

Razor Shines
02-22-2008, 03:46 PM
I hope my post didn't come across as support for Sampson because that wasn't my intent. I would be willing to put up with a couple years of rebuilding too if that's what it takes. The key is getting the right coach this time around.

No, I knew what you meant and I know where you stand on the issue. I was more agreeing with you than anything.

BRM
02-22-2008, 03:47 PM
Razor, is the presser scheduled for 4:00 eastern?

Razor Shines
02-22-2008, 03:47 PM
That's what they said on ESPN's Outside the Lines. JMV on 1260 in Indy is saying that they will carry it whenever it happens. You can listen to his show online.

http://www.wnde.com/cc-common/streaming_new/index.html?refreshed=yes

BRM
02-22-2008, 03:48 PM
Thanks for the link.

Razor Shines
02-22-2008, 03:54 PM
Apparently the Bloomington Herald-Times is reporting the press conference has now been pushed back to 6pm.

BRM
02-22-2008, 03:55 PM
Apparently the Bloomington Herald-Times is reporting the press conference has now been pushed back to 6pm.

I was just getting ready to post this. I'll be in the car on the way home then. Hopefully ESPN Radio will carry it.

BRM
02-22-2008, 04:30 PM
What the heck, here are a couple more tidbits.

From Andy Katz:



While discussions over the fate of Indiana coach Kelvin Sampson remained fluid through Friday afternoon, a final determination has been delayed because of talk of a potential financial settlement, a university official said.

Such a settlement would enable both the university and Sampson to part ways immediately.


From the Herald-Times:



Dan Dakich is coaching IU’s basketball team in practice, but a number of the key Hoosier players are not there.

As far as we can tell, D.J. White, Jemarcus Ellis, Armon Bassett, Jordan Crawford, DeAndre Thomas and Brandon McGee are not at practice. That leaves IU with seven players practicing and six not there.

We don’t know exactly what that means, but it seems ominous after the reports today that players have been talking about a walk-out for Saturday’s game at Northwestern. There has been no official word on who will be available for that game.

The players who are practicing are playing against team managers. Dakich told the players that together they are going to finish what Kelvin Sampson started.

Assistant coach Jeff Meyer is participating in the practice. Assistant coach Ray McCallum is not there.

BRM
02-22-2008, 05:24 PM
The Indy Star weighs in on the potential boycott.


BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- Kelvin Sampson will meet with his team tonight and encourage them to play in Saturday's game at Northwestern regardless of his situation, a person close to the team said today.

Six players, including D.J. White, Armon Bassett, Jamarcus Ellis and Jordan Crawford, did not show up for a scheduled practice today at Assembly Hall.

Another person close to the team said players have threatened to boycott Saturday's game if Sampson is not the coach, and the team will follow D.J. White's lead on whether to play.

WVRed
02-22-2008, 07:37 PM
I have a feeling that there will be transfers from Indiana after this season. If I am IU and the players decide to boycott, I would send a message that if you do not want to play Saturday, then you don't play at all.

BRM
02-25-2008, 09:51 AM
So Hoosier fans, do you think this team can win the Big Ten with Dakich in charge? The team played their hearts out on Saturday but everyone knew that was going to be an emotional night. Will they keep it together and make a run or do you think they fall off and finish 3rd or 4th?

Hoosier Red
02-25-2008, 01:18 PM
I think we got one answer yesterday when OSU couldn't beat Wisconsin at home. I don't think Wisconsin loses again.

Purdue really only has to beat OSU on the road and they're in like flint.

That means regardless IU is a 3 seed in the conference tournament and will likely have to face Wisconsin in the Semi-Finals.
Also, I can't see any way IU beats MSU in East Lansing, but I also don't think MSU can beat Wisconsin in Madison.

So I think IU finishes 15-3, 3rd in the B11.

Razor Shines
02-25-2008, 05:58 PM
I think we got one answer yesterday when OSU couldn't beat Wisconsin at home. I don't think Wisconsin loses again.

Purdue really only has to beat OSU on the road and they're in like flint.

That means regardless IU is a 3 seed in the conference tournament and will likely have to face Wisconsin in the Semi-Finals.
Also, I can't see any way IU beats MSU in East Lansing, but I also don't think MSU can beat Wisconsin in Madison.

So I think IU finishes 15-3, 3rd in the B11.

I don't know I think IU matches up really well with MSU. It's gonna be a tough win to get but I certainly wouldn't say that there's no way they can there.

You're probably right about Wisc. not losing again, so I think IU finishes 2nd.

BRM
03-03-2008, 09:37 AM
Well, that was ugly yesterday.

SunDeck
03-03-2008, 05:28 PM
Not surprised they lost, but I am surprised they got killed like that. Left me wondering if they have just tanked after all the emotion of the last month. Dakich took the blame for not getting them ready, but as flat footed as they were, it just looked a group of kids who didn't come to play. They were flat lining from the tip off.

redsfanmia
03-03-2008, 05:54 PM
Not surprised they lost, but I am surprised they got killed like that. Left me wondering if they have just tanked after all the emotion of the last month. Dakich took the blame for not getting them ready, but as flat footed as they were, it just looked a group of kids who didn't come to play. They were flat lining from the tip off.

Seriously they are just not that good. Every decent team they have played they have lost. The only wins against NCAA tournament teams are Purdue at home, MSU at home, and maybe Southern Illionis again at home. Very overrated IMO.

Hoosier Red
03-03-2008, 06:23 PM
Seriously they are just not that good. Every decent team they have played they have lost. The only wins against NCAA tournament teams are Purdue at home, MSU at home, and maybe Southern Illionis again at home. Very overrated IMO.

Probably Kentucky too.

Actually the record against "decent" teams say RPI 40-100 is very good. It's one of those things that helps a teams RPI but doesn't necessarily show they can play with the top teams.

They haven't lost to anybody they shouldn't have lost to either, though the margins left a lot to be desired in the Xavier, Wisc and of course yesterday.

To be fair though, while IU's effort was lacking yesterday, I'm not sure anyone would have beaten MSU yesterday. Add the two components together and you have a 30 point blowout.

Similarly, MSU played poorly in Bloomington with the Hoosiers playing as well as possible, and lost by 19.

SunDeck
03-03-2008, 06:44 PM
Seriously they are just not that good. Every decent team they have played they have lost. The only wins against NCAA tournament teams are Purdue at home, MSU at home, and maybe Southern Illionis again at home. Very overrated IMO.

I didn't say they were. But they are certainly a better team than what they showed yesterday. They can score and they can run, but they are one big guy and a bunch of guards. Way too one dimensional to be a dominating team.

Razor Shines
03-03-2008, 06:53 PM
Seriously they are just not that good. Every decent team they have played they have lost. The only wins against NCAA tournament teams are Purdue at home, MSU at home, and maybe Southern Illionis again at home. Very overrated IMO.

Not sure what your definition of "not that good" is. If you mean they are not a top 10 team, then I agree with you. I don't think that they are overrated ranked at 12-17.

Yesterday was senior day and add in the fact that MSU got their butts kicked in Bloomington and it's safe to say that MSU was PUMPED to play that game. The entire team had the game of their lives and IU had one of the worst halves of basketball I've seen from them this year.

We'll see if the team can get it together again this year.

redsfanmia
03-03-2008, 07:02 PM
Not sure what your definition of "not that good" is. If you mean they are not a top 10 team, then I agree with you. I don't think that they are overrated ranked at 12-17.

Yesterday was senior day and add in the fact that MSU got their butts kicked in Bloomington and it's safe to say that MSU was PUMPED to play that game. The entire team had the game of their lives and IU had one of the worst halves of basketball I've seen from them this year.

We'll see if the team can get it together again this year.

I think they are a borderline top 25 team at best. I just dont see anyway they make the second weekend of the tounament.

Razor Shines
03-03-2008, 07:16 PM
I think they are a borderline top 25 team at best. I just dont see anyway they make the second weekend of the tounament.

Sure, if they don't start playing better than they have since Sampson left and they may not. It's an easy thing to say right now. I'm not sure some of the players are that much into playing for Dakich. You have to admit that they are a different team since Sampson left.