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View Full Version : Miami Heat discussing Shaq for Shawn Marion trade with Phoenix Suns



WMR
02-05-2008, 07:27 PM
This seems like a trade horribly lopsided in favor of the Heat...

Buckeye33
02-05-2008, 07:32 PM
This seems like a trade horribly lopsided in favor of the Heat...

I agree that on paper this seems to be a great deal for Miami, if they couldn't or wouldn't want to resign Marion, they would have a ton of cap space to go after a very good upcoming FA class.

I just can't see Shaq making a huge difference in the playoffs for Phoenix. It would be a helluva combo to have Shaq and Amare playing on the front line. I just don't think Shaq could play in that system and be able to keep up with Nash and the rest of them.

The Gasol trade could make a lot of the western teams desperate enough to make trades like this.

WMR
02-05-2008, 07:33 PM
It would be entertaining to see Kobe and Shaq potentially at each others throats again, wouldn't it.

guttle11
02-05-2008, 08:24 PM
I think that would be a good deal for the Suns, too. Shaq would become a role player, not a top weapon. Put him opposite Amare, with the spacing of that offense, and who does the defense guard?

Barbosa is ready to step up and fill the majority of Marion's role.

NorrisHopper30
02-05-2008, 09:06 PM
This won't happen. Shaq always gets hurt, is it worth the risk?

GoReds33
02-05-2008, 09:13 PM
I love that the Heat are finally giving up on Shaq. Shaq does nothing but put butts in the seats for the Heat. He's not the player he was, and he can't be that go-to guy he usto be. For Shaq's sake I hope this deal gets done. He deserves it. He defenitly doesn't deserve to be on this horrible team.

Something else I was thinking about was his weight. Does anybody else think he might try to get in better shape if he knew it would be for a good cause? I don't see where he would get motivation on this team.

Razor Shines
02-06-2008, 12:27 AM
I think that would be a good deal for the Suns, too. Shaq would become a role player, not a top weapon. Put him opposite Amare, with the spacing of that offense, and who does the defense guard?

Barbosa is ready to step up and fill the majority of Marion's role.

I have no idea how this would help the Suns. Why would they want to throw a player into the mix that is completely different from the type of game that they play? To use Shaq effectively the Suns would have to slow the game down, which wouldn't make much sense for them.

Barbosa doesn't play any where near Marion's position. Barbosa backs up Nash. Marion plays the 3 or 4 spot and grabs 9 boards a game and blocks a couple shots a game, Barbosa can't fill that role.

Revering4Blue
02-06-2008, 01:19 AM
[PShaq always gets hurtHP][/PHP]

Not only that, with Marion gone, you're banking on Grant Hill's health. Not a good idea.

This underscores just what a horrible idea it was to essentially give away Kurt Thomas and several first round picks , just to avoid paying luxury taxes. Sarver talks out of both sides of his mouth, suggesting that they go for it now, then insisting on the awful Thomas deal while selling first round picks the past two years--robbing the team of needed depth. You cannot win a championship without depth in an up-tempo system, and the Suns cannot win it all without Marion--He's that valuable.

If they need help up front, the man they need is--don't laugh--Jeff Foster. The man out-performs Ben Wallace for far less $$$ Skinner, more expiring contact filler and a 1st round pick doesn't seem too high a price to pay, and you get to keep Marion.

Bip Roberts
02-06-2008, 01:38 AM
Id crack up if the Suns finally make it to the championship.

guttle11
02-06-2008, 01:40 AM
I have no idea how this would help the Suns. Why would they want to throw a player into the mix that is completely different from the type of game that they play?

Because the way they play now isn't going to win an NBA title. Inside play and defense are what wins. The Suns don't play defense, and they rely too much on the perimeter shot. Adding Shaq gives you a quality post player to put along side Amare, and one that still can be a force in the paint on both ends of the floor at times.

The Suns will be a much more diverse basketball team by adding Shaq. Even 2008 Shaq. They can still run you to the tune of 120 if needed, but they will also have the depth inside to bang with the Spurs/Pistons/Lakers/Celtics.

Of course Barbosa won't fill Marion's role to a "T", but he is more than capable of taking his minutes in the rotation. At it will work, because a slower pace will allow Nash to increase his minutes once the post season begins.

Keep in mind that the decline in Shaq's game is coinciding with an ugly divorce. Maybe getting away to Phoenix will allow him to clear his head and regain a lot of his attitude on the floor. I think the missing attitude is effecting his game more than the knees at this point. He'll rest the knees and be ready for the playoffs. He needs to find the fire again.

Assuming he passes the physical he's supposedly taking tomorrow and the deal goes through.

Razor Shines
02-06-2008, 09:28 AM
So you are saying that by taking away their best defensive player and adding Shaq the Suns will now become a good defensive team? I just don't see how removing Marion and adding Shaq suddenly makes them a slow it down, grind it out, defensive team. Maybe the Suns FO does, although I think they traded Marion because he's been wanting out and they thought this was the best they could do.

Barbosa is already playing around 30 mins a game and shooting as much as Marion, I don't see how he can step up much more.

Shaq's game is also coinciding with the fact that he's 36 years old and not getting skinnier. I think Shaq could help the Suns at times during games, but he would have helped a whole lot more if they could have picked him up while keeping Marion, not for Marion. Marion's one of the most talented players in the NBA, I don't see how giving him up for Shaq makes the Suns better. Which kinda sucks because I'd like to see Nash get a Championship.

WVRed
02-06-2008, 09:29 AM
A combination of Derrick Rose/OJ Mayo, Dwayne Wade, and Shawn Marion next year would be intriguing.

Buckeye33
02-06-2008, 10:14 AM
This is from rotoworld.com this morning...

"Reports broke early Wednesday morning that Shaquille O'Neal is on his way to Phoenix to take a physical today, and will be traded to the Suns for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks if he is medically cleared.
That could be a big 'if' given the state of his hip, but it sounds like this improbable trade is very close to being completed. Miami is also believed to want Marion to sign off on the deal beforehand. Fantasy ramifications could include Boris Diaw becoming relevant again, starting in Marion's spot, while Amare Stoudemire's points, blocks and rebounds could take a slight hit if Shaq is healthy enough to play heavy minutes for Phoenix. The Suns don't run a five-man fast break, so the theory is that Shaq will not slow them down. It's also possible that Banks could earn significant minutes from Pat Riley in Miami. Stay tuned."

RedsManRick
02-06-2008, 10:14 AM
I don't understand this at all. Shaq is going to be run ragged on that team, assuming he's healthy enough to take the court at all. It would be one thing if they had gotten Kirilenko or some other athletic big to fill the lane and grab boards. Are they expecting Shaq to start the fast break off the boards and then just stand and watch while he rests his ankles, knees, and hips?

Buckeye33
02-06-2008, 10:19 AM
A combination of Derrick Rose/OJ Mayo, Dwayne Wade, and Shawn Marion next year would be intriguing.

If the Heat got lucky and won the NBA lottery, they would select Michael Beasley. If they could resign Marion, you'd have a nice set of 3 to begin the rebuild in Wade, Marion, and Beasley.

Unassisted
02-06-2008, 10:22 AM
I don't understand this at all. Shaq is going to be run ragged on that team, assuming he's healthy enough to take the court at all. It would be one thing if they had gotten Kirilenko or some other athletic big to fill the lane and grab boards. Are they expecting Shaq to start the fast break off the boards and then just stand and watch while he rests his ankles, knees, and hips?The trend these days is for teams to reinvent themselves depending on their opponent. Shaq gives the Suns the option to play more of an inside game if they need to. I don't foresee that he would see the kind of minutes that he did in Miami when he was healthy.

Buckeye33
02-06-2008, 10:30 AM
I don't understand this at all. Shaq is going to be run ragged on that team, assuming he's healthy enough to take the court at all. It would be one thing if they had gotten Kirilenko or some other athletic big to fill the lane and grab boards. Are they expecting Shaq to start the fast break off the boards and then just stand and watch while he rests his ankles, knees, and hips?

I really believe the Suns would make this trade simply to have Shaq around for the playoffs. Of course if he's healthy he'll play during the regular season, but I would suspect he would not play more than 25-30 minutes a night.

The Suns don't need Marion or Shaq to make the playoffs. They can run their high octane offense well enough in the regular season to make the playoffs. It's in the playoffs that that style does not work as well, hence the need for Shaq.

TeamSelig
02-06-2008, 10:37 AM
If Phoenix can throw in Diaw and get back Davis then it would be a decent deal IMO.

Buckeye33
02-06-2008, 12:09 PM
If Phoenix can throw in Diaw and get back Davis then it would be a decent deal IMO.

Diaw isn't going anywhere, he will replace Marion in the starting lineup until Shaq gets healthy.

PG: Nash
SG: Bell
SF: Diaw
PF: Amare
C: Shaq

Hill, Barbosa, Skinner

vs

PG: Fischer
SG: Bryant
SF: Odom
PF: Gasol
C: Bynum

Walton, Farmar, Ariza, Vujacic, Radmanovic, Turiaf

I'd still take the Lakers every time, even with a healthy Shaq. The Lakers will have the best bench in the NBA when Bynum and Ariza are healthy.

WMR
02-06-2008, 12:21 PM
Quite amazing how the Lakers fortunes have changed so quickly.

NorrisHopper30
02-06-2008, 01:08 PM
Diaw isn't going anywhere, he will replace Marion in the starting lineup until Shaq gets healthy.

PG: Nash
SG: Bell
SF: Diaw
PF: Amare
C: Shaq

Hill, Barbosa, Skinner

vs

PG: Fischer
SG: Bryant
SF: Odom
PF: Gasol
C: Bynum

Walton, Farmar, Ariza, Vujacic, Radmanovic, Turiaf

I'd still take the Lakers every time, even with a healthy Shaq. The Lakers will have the best bench in the NBA when Bynum and Ariza are healthy.
I could see the Suns going with Hill or Barbosa at 3.

Roy Tucker
02-06-2008, 02:00 PM
I think its a big gamble for the Suns.

The last 2 playoffs have shown that they just can't get over the hump with the team and style of play they have. Once you get deep into the NBA playoffs, the grind-it-out games come to the forefront. The Suns can win the 128-120 run and gun games, but not the 95-93 half-court predominate games (like the Spurs, Mavs, Pistons, etc.)

I think they're going to try to get 30+ minutes of Shaq per game and let him do his low-post game and mix things up.

But his 36 yr. old body and huge contract makes this a really big gamble for them. I see nothing but upside for the Heat on this deal.

GoReds33
02-06-2008, 04:37 PM
If you were the Suns, would you let Shaq take a couple weeks off later in the season, or now for that matter? It's obdvious he needs some time off. He can get his knees a bit better, and maybe lose some weight.

WMR
02-06-2008, 07:29 PM
Looks like it's now official: Shaq to Phoenix ... Marion and Marcus Banks to Miami.

IslandRed
02-06-2008, 07:58 PM
Are they expecting Shaq to start the fast break off the boards and then just stand and watch while he rests his ankles, knees, and hips?


They can run their high octane offense well enough in the regular season to make the playoffs. It's in the playoffs that that style does not work as well, hence the need for Shaq.

It's a big risk for Phoenix, but an acceptable one. Their window of opportunity is going to close soon and they couldn't realistically expect to win the West with the team they had. This at least gives them that if-everything-goes-right chance.

Does Shaq fit their preferred style? No, but as Buckeye mentioned, their style needed adjusting. In the playoffs you have to play more halfcourt whether you like it or not. The Suns can also use better post defense and rebounding.

Furthermore, and this goes to Rick's comment, Shaq isn't any more out of place with the Suns than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was with the showtime Lakers. Kareem played exactly that way -- Magic and Worthy and the boys would run the break, and only after they didn't find the quick shot would Kareem come loping on down. It earned him plenty of ridicule, but it saved his legs over the long season and it sure did help having him as the focal point in the halfcourt. The Lakers were effectively two teams in one, and Shaq (if sort of healthy) offers that possibility.

Of course, it all falls apart if Shaq just can't play anymore.

RedsManRick
02-06-2008, 08:27 PM
It's a big risk for Phoenix, but an acceptable one. Their window of opportunity is going to close soon and they couldn't realistically expect to win the West with the team they had. This at least gives them that if-everything-goes-right chance.

Does Shaq fit their preferred style? No, but as Buckeye mentioned, their style needed adjusting. In the playoffs you have to play more halfcourt whether you like it or not. The Suns can also use better post defense and rebounding.

Furthermore, and this goes to Rick's comment, Shaq isn't any more out of place with the Suns than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was with the showtime Lakers. Kareem played exactly that way -- Magic and Worthy and the boys would run the break, and only after they didn't find the quick shot would Kareem come loping on down. It earned him plenty of ridicule, but it saved his legs over the long season and it sure did help having him as the focal point in the halfcourt. The Lakers were effectively two teams in one, and Shaq (if sort of healthy) offers that possibility.

Of course, it all falls apart if Shaq just can't play anymore.

I hadn't considered the Lakers example. Thought the latter part is the bigger issue in my mind.

I'm also worried about their half court offense. Shaq isn't mobile enough to play on the high post for a pick and roll, which leaves him in the way down low for other cutters. D'Antoni is going to have to change up the standard set.

I guess Kerr figured it was now or never and this is his version of all-in with a hedge again Marion leaving. According to ESPN, thanks to their cap position, if Marion opted out, they'd be left with the same team just a year older, sans Marion (replaced by a mid-level exception guy).

TeamSelig
02-07-2008, 07:46 AM
You can't really underestimate Shaq though either. He always seems to be highly motivated when traded. BTW Hill will start at the 3.

And Diaw has a BAD contract - should have been included too. I think Miami would have accepted.

If Shaq can somehow fit into their system or a modified version, I think it is for the best. It will be interesting none the less.

WMR
02-07-2008, 08:37 AM
I'll be pulling for the Suns now. It'd be quite hilarious to see Shaq win a championship with them. Especially now with all of the Laker love.

princeton
02-07-2008, 08:57 AM
one of my earliest memories is watching old Wilt Chamberlain finally show up on the offensive end for the last 2 or 3 seconds of a Lakers' possession.

Unassisted
02-07-2008, 10:50 AM
I wonder if Shaq will put a hard check on Robert Horry if the Spurs meet the Suns in the playoffs. There's still a lot of seething going on in Phoenix over the check that Horry put on Steve Nash last year in the playoffs.

TeamSelig
02-07-2008, 11:45 PM
Looks like Shaq is taking offense to the critics saying he can't keep up. Should be cool to see how that turns out.

WMR
02-07-2008, 11:49 PM
Looks like Shaq is taking offense to the critics saying he can't keep up. Should be cool to see how that turns out.

"THE SUN WILL RISE IN PHOENIX" - Shaq

LMAO, I love Shaq's personality.

WVRed
02-08-2008, 12:55 PM
"THE SUN WILL RISE IN PHOENIX" - Shaq

LMAO, I love Shaq's personality.

Don't I remember you saying it would have been impossible to trade Shaq?;)

NorrisHopper30
02-08-2008, 01:02 PM
I'm not going to judge this trade yet, I guess. Potentially it could be a great trade for the Suns, but it could also be devastating. Great trade for the Heat either way though - as they clear up even more salary, expect them to make a move in the free agency.

WMR
02-08-2008, 01:19 PM
Don't I remember you saying it would have been impossible to trade Shaq?;)

Hehehehehehehe... What can I say, I'm no Steve Kerr!!! :lol:

Danny Serafini
02-08-2008, 01:37 PM
As a Hawks fan I'm going to go on a slight side rant here. A couple months ago the Heat played Atlanta, and the scorer screwed up and gave Shaq his 6th foul instead of his 5th with 51 seconds left. Atlanta won, Miami protested, and the league upheld it, which in itself is shocking since they hadn't upheld a protest in almost 30 years. So they decided that next month they'll replay the last 51 seconds so Miami would have Shaq available. Now that he's traded, they're still making them replay the last 51 seconds. What's the point? They can't fix the mistake anymore, so how is this the right solution? AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

Roy Tucker
02-08-2008, 01:47 PM
As a Hawks fan I'm going to go on a slight side rant here. A couple months ago the Heat played Atlanta, and the scorer screwed up and gave Shaq his 6th foul instead of his 5th with 51 seconds left. Atlanta won, Miami protested, and the league upheld it, which in itself is shocking since they hadn't upheld a protest in almost 30 years. So they decided that next month they'll replay the last 51 seconds so Miami would have Shaq available. Now that he's traded, they're still making them replay the last 51 seconds. What's the point? They can't fix the mistake anymore, so how is this the right solution? AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!


Interesting dilemma for the league. With Shaq gone, they'll just replay the last 51 seconds with the same players just like the original game. What is proven?

I did read where neither Marion nor Banks will be allowed to play in that do-over.

WVRed
02-08-2008, 09:07 PM
Interesting dilemma for the league. With Shaq gone, they'll just replay the last 51 seconds with the same players just like the original game. What is proven?

I did read where neither Marion nor Banks will be allowed to play in that do-over.

If it were me I would ship Shaq back to Miami and have him play the last 50 seconds of that game one last time.

Revering4Blue
02-09-2008, 02:22 PM
Who's on Suns' short list?
Posted: Saturday February 09, 2008 10:22AM ET
Phoenix has a trade exception they acquired from Seattle in the Kurt Thomas trade, but the luxury tax would double the salary of whoever they bring aboard in a deal. That means free agents or other minimum-salary players would be likely targets. Some of the names the team is batting around: Mickael Gelabale, a 6-foot-7 second-year forward who is with Seattle but is currently playing in the NBA Development League. Linton Johnson, a 6-8 forward with four years of NBA experience who last played 54 games with the Hornets last season. Ronald Dupree, a 6-7 athletic swingman out of LSU who has spent part of four seasons in the league and played 19 games with the Detroit Pistons last season. Bobby Jones, a 6-7 guard who began the season with Denver and had two 10-day stints with Memphis earlier this season.


http://http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/nba

GoReds33
02-09-2008, 02:25 PM
Who's on Suns' short list?
Posted: Saturday February 09, 2008 10:22AM ET
Phoenix has a trade exception they acquired from Seattle in the Kurt Thomas trade, but the luxury tax would double the salary of whoever they bring aboard in a deal. That means free agents or other minimum-salary players would be likely targets. Some of the names the team is batting around: Mickael Gelabale, a 6-foot-7 second-year forward who is with Seattle but is currently playing in the NBA Development League. Linton Johnson, a 6-8 forward with four years of NBA experience who last played 54 games with the Hornets last season. Ronald Dupree, a 6-7 athletic swingman out of LSU who has spent part of four seasons in the league and played 19 games with the Detroit Pistons last season. Bobby Jones, a 6-7 guard who began the season with Denver and had two 10-day stints with Memphis earlier this season.


http://http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/nbaI'd like to see them go after James White. From what I've heard, he's playing as well as anybody in Europe. He spent some of last year on the Spurs, so he knows what it takes to win. Why not?