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View Full Version : Per Hal, Phillips and Reds agree on long term deal



BearcatShane
02-15-2008, 12:31 AM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Bip Roberts
02-15-2008, 12:33 AM
Cant wait for more details, hopefully its a smart one.

BearcatShane
02-15-2008, 12:36 AM
I'll say 3 years around 20 million.

kaldaniels
02-15-2008, 12:44 AM
I'll say 3 years around 20 million.

Throw a decent team option for a 4th on there and I'm estatic.

roby
02-15-2008, 01:00 AM
Without seeing the details...this is an excellent move! It keeps a star player happy (Philips loves Cincinnati), and it gives the Reds one of the best young players in the game. :thumbup:

GoReds33
02-15-2008, 01:02 AM
Great deal. It's good to see that this organization has it's priorities straight. He deserves this deal, no matter what the salary.

mroby85
02-15-2008, 01:05 AM
Absolutely Awesome!!! i love it!

this team is finally heading in the right direction, and with not living through the big red machine era, i gotta say, i'm lovin it!!!

AccordinglyReds
02-15-2008, 01:12 AM
I've been waiting for this for the whole off-season. It finally came. :)

w00t!

Bip Roberts
02-15-2008, 01:28 AM
I'll say 3 years around 20 million.

Its probably at least 4 years because I doubt they would buy out all but 1 year of arbitration

AmarilloRed
02-15-2008, 01:54 AM
It is surprising Phillips got a LTC before Dunn.

Bip Roberts
02-15-2008, 01:57 AM
It is surprising Phillips got a LTC before Dunn.

I think working out a contract that buys out arbitration years is going to be a lot easier than working out a deal with a guy probably looking for a lot more money

donnelly_31
02-15-2008, 04:52 AM
I hope this is true....I have a hard time believing Hal's sources since his "Beatty New Reds GM" news break

namichael
02-15-2008, 08:07 AM
Getting Brandon long term could be the smartest thing this team has done in a while. It's great that Brandon wants to be in Cincy for the long haul.

Let's hope that this all pans out.

Simms11
02-15-2008, 11:50 AM
:jump:

mlbfan30
02-15-2008, 12:04 PM
I have a feeling this will buy out 1 FA year at most. I think it's going to a a slightly overpriced deal based on the market of newly signed multi year contracts by arb eligible players.

scounts22
02-15-2008, 12:32 PM
This is great news! I'm so excited for tomorrow, I'm all decked out in Reds attire today at work!!
:beerme::rockband::thisyear::KoolAid::clap::party: :thumbup:

CRedsLarkin11
02-15-2008, 12:33 PM
Couldn't be happier about this. This is great for both sides. I'm happy that this organization is at least trying

XU Lou
02-15-2008, 03:30 PM
From John Fay's Blog:

Update: The deal is for four years with a club option for a fifth. That keeps Phillips with the Reds at least until 2011 and probably till 2012. I don't have the money part yet.

SMcGavin
02-15-2008, 03:34 PM
From John Fay's Blog:

Update: The deal is for four years with a club option for a fifth. That keeps Phillips with the Reds at least until 2011 and probably till 2012. I don't have the money part yet.

I'd have waited another year to do this, but if we were gonna do it that's exactly the length I'd have picked. Four years plus a team option. I'll wait til the money is announced to judge the trade. Now let's all hope that the 2007 version of BP is here to stay.

mroby85
02-15-2008, 03:34 PM
27 mill, but if they trade him it raises it to roughly 43 million, per reds.com

Degenerate39
02-15-2008, 03:35 PM
I love that we don't have to worry about losing Phillips for the next 4 years. I really hope he stays in Cincy the majority of his long MLB career that he has ahead of him. Once he learns to take a walk and hit right handed pitching he will be one of the top players in baseball, IMO.

XU Lou
02-15-2008, 03:43 PM
27 mill, but if they trade him it raises it to roughly 43 million, per reds.com

I just looked that up.

Does that mean the option year is $16.25 Million?

Ahhhorsepoo
02-15-2008, 03:45 PM
i sure hope dunn isnt next.. let him walk if you cant get anything for a trade for him..

BucksandReds
02-15-2008, 03:54 PM
We need Dunn at a reasonable price. If not then signing Dunn hurts us more than it helps. No matter how much you need his bat there is a limit where you are paying too many dollars per run produced and need to try to get that production elsewhere. I don't pretend to know what that amount is but I hope that the management does.

Nasty_Boy
02-15-2008, 04:02 PM
I don't think money is that big of an issue with ownership. I think they are willing to pay fair market price for good players. This isn't the Linder ownership group that didn't care about wins and losses, and only about the bottom line. I'm confident that Castellini will sign Dunn to a 3-4 yr contract worth 45-60 million. If the Reds didn't want to keep Dunn, then I'm sure they wouldn't have traded Hamilton.

AdamDunn
02-15-2008, 04:02 PM
I just looked that up.

Does that mean the option year is $16.25 Million?

That does sound a little messed up.

I think this was a just a little too much. I know everyone was saying $30 million over four years, but Brandon Phillips has only two full years under his belt and doesn't take very many walks and I'm still skeptical about his power. I was hoping for something comparable to what Troy Tulowitzki got with the Rockies.

AmarilloRed
02-15-2008, 04:14 PM
I will be waiting to hear specifics. 4 years, 27 million averages out to 6.75 million a year. It doesn't sound too bad to me. I expect in the option year there is a buy-out, when combined with his salary for the year it makes the difference between 27 and 43 million.

mlbfan30
02-15-2008, 04:14 PM
Tulo has had 1 season, while Phillips 3. There is the difference. Cano is a much closer comp and we'll have to see specifics to see if BPs deal was better. I think it wasn't

BLEEDS
02-15-2008, 04:16 PM
4 years $27M is pretty decent.

5 years $43M is HORRIBLE!!! I want to see the details on that, because the only caveat noted was that IF traded, it would guarantee the CLUB option becomes a MUTUAL option, and is $43.25.

I want to see what the Club Option for the 5th year is.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ahhhorsepoo
02-15-2008, 05:00 PM
I don't think money is that big of an issue with ownership. I think they are willing to pay fair market price for good players. This isn't the Linder ownership group that didn't care about wins and losses, and only about the bottom line. I'm confident that Castellini will sign Dunn to a 3-4 yr contract worth 45-60 million. If the Reds didn't want to keep Dunn, then I'm sure they wouldn't have traded Hamilton.

$15 mil a year?

he's at 13.5 this year with the option..

he will command at least 18 mil maybe even closer to 20 mil.. if he would stay at 13 mil or less i would say keep him but as i have stated 120000 times.. he costs way too much to keep him in a small market nl team.. if he was great at defense and had his offensive numbers then 18-20 mil a year would be completely reasonable.. but his lack of defense should put his value on the reds as trade bait.. not as a long term player..

wait til the trade deadline when a team like the tigers or indians will need a big bat.. and get a zach minor and yorman type deal to help them out.. and shore up our bullpen even more.. no one in baseball wants to give anything up for dunn.. we as a fan base either have people who have blown his value way too high.. or cut his value way too low.. I would like to think of myself as one who keeps it real.. but i know some of you will disagree with my thought that the type of contract he will demand should not be on a small market nl team..

SMcGavin
02-15-2008, 05:02 PM
i sure hope dunn isnt next.. let him walk if you cant get anything for a trade for him..

This thread is not about Adam Dunn. Everyone knows you don't like Adam Dunn. Very few of us really care. Please start discussiing Phillips or go post about Dunn on a different thread.

Bip Roberts
02-15-2008, 05:04 PM
5th year is 12 million if the reds dont trade him according to reds.com

CySeymour
02-15-2008, 05:05 PM
It's great to have some actual baseball news, as opposed to the Roger Clemens junk.

Of course, I'm sure Keith Law will hate the move :rolleyes:

Ahhhorsepoo
02-15-2008, 05:07 PM
This thread is not about Adam Dunn. Everyone knows you don't like Adam Dunn. Very few of us really care. Please start discussiing Phillips or go post about Dunn on a different thread.

cut on me because i was responding to someone else who wanted dunn to get one.. that makes sense.. you are a real class act..

mlbfan30
02-15-2008, 05:14 PM
I don't think teams would pay Dunn 20M a year. I could see a Hunter type deal around 18-19M, but I think he would end up in the 17-18M range for 4 years. Maybe the Yanks sign him to DH now that Giambi is gone. They're paying Giambi 21M next year to be a part time DHer. Obviously Dunn at 18M is a much better option. Dunn is almost garenteed to become an AL player.

Dunn probably would give the Reds a discount, probably resulting in a 4/65 type contract, but I wouldn't do it. Dunn is worth 16-18M now, but his old player skills projected an early and quick decline.

SMcGavin
02-15-2008, 05:18 PM
I just looked that up.

Does that mean the option year is $16.25 Million?

Yea I don't know what the point of even including that option year is. What are the odds that Phillips in 5 years is worth $16.25 million? 10 to 1? 25 to 1?

I'll be a dissenting opinion and say I'm not all that thrilled about the contract. These are my guesses for the arb contracts he would have gotten if he kept producing:
07: $4.2M (or $2.7M if he would have lost his case)
08: $6M
09: $8M

That would total $18M or so, which means we are paying for all of that plus covering his first year of free agency at $9M. If Phillips keeps playing like he did in 2007 for the length of this contract, it's a solid deal and we probably saved a little bit of money. If he drops off, then we just committed a lot of money that could have gone to something else. I think people view these signings compared to the money free agents are getting. Phillips at 4 yr / $27M on the open market would be a pretty good deal. It's different though when we already control him.

In the end though I can't really be upset about this, as BP is a good player and now we have him for one more year than we did before. I just think we paid a little too much.

kaldaniels
02-15-2008, 05:21 PM
Yea I don't know what the point of even including that option year is. What are the odds that Phillips in 5 years is worth $16.25 million? 10 to 1? 25 to 1?

I'll be a dissenting opinion and say I'm not all that thrilled about the contract. These are my guesses for the arb contracts he would have gotten if he kept producing:
07: $4.2M (or $2.7M if he would have lost his case)
08: $6M
09: $8M

That would total $18M or so, which means we are paying for all of that plus covering his first year of free agency at $9M. If Phillips keeps playing like he did in 2007 for the length of this contract, it's a solid deal and we probably saved a little bit of money. If he drops off, then we just committed a lot of money that could have gone to something else. I think people view these signings compared to the money free agents are getting. Phillips at 4 yr / $27M on the open market would be a pretty good deal. It's different though when we already control him.

In the end though I can't really be upset about this, as BP is a good player and now we have him for one more year than we did before. I just think we paid a little too much.

Moot point. The 5th option year is for 12M.

SMcGavin
02-15-2008, 05:25 PM
cut on me because i was responding to someone else who wanted dunn to get one.. that makes sense.. you are a real class act..

OK I went back and looked. One person wrote one sentence about Dunn earlier in the thread. It was "surprising Phillips got an LTC before Dunn". Nobody said anything about how Dunn needs an LTC, or tried to start a debate about Dunn getting an LTC. There were no positive or negative statements about Adam Dunn until yours.

I apologize for my tone before but Dunn's positives and negatives have been discussed a million times before, with you as a central part of those debates. We don't need it to happen again on this thread, especially since the Phillips extension is pretty big news.

BLEEDS
02-15-2008, 05:25 PM
5th year is 12 million if the reds dont trade him according to reds.com

I think I can live with that.

Makes it probably 5 years and ~$40M (or less) overall - since I assume the 4 yr $27M deal includes a $2M or so buy-out for the 5th year.

That's cheaper than Cano across the board, as it should be - and some (not me) would argue that Cano's should be cheaper because it includes option years versus BP's include FA years.

IMO, they are comps, with Cano being the better of the comps, by a considerable margin.

In this case, we're only talking about $3M over 4 years so I'm not jumping for joy, but Cano's option years are capped at higher numbers than BP's - 14M v 12M in 2012. The Yanks also hold a 6th years option for Cano in 2013 for $15M, that is unnecessary for BP IMO, because I don't see BP's bat or glove keeping up with his aging 5 years from now.

At least it's not MORE than Cano's contract.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

SMcGavin
02-15-2008, 05:31 PM
Moot point. The 5th option year is for 12M.

OK good, that makes me like the deal a little more. Everything I posted after the first sentence though is not at all moot.

mlbfan30
02-15-2008, 05:39 PM
I'd like to point out, I basically predicted the value of this contract 2 weeks ago.


When did I say 1/2 a win = 10M?

Cano is getting 4 controlled years for 30M plus 2 options at 13M and 15M

BP at 4 years at 30M means 3 controlled year + a year of FA. That extra year in FA makes up the difference in production value. It's equivelent to Cano's 13M option.

Cano will make 5M next year, so in terms of a 3 year deal for BP it's a 3/25 or about 8M a year. That is somewhat high, but comparable.

If you make a 4 year deal for BP, buying out a FA year, thats a 4/38 type deal. Meaning that's what Cano get's for those same years of service.

If we gave BP a 4/30 deal, it would be about 2M per year less than what Cano would be getting, so a similar deal to BP is reasonable. BP isn't as good offensively and will be on the decline, but is better defensively. It would be a very reasonable move.

Does this make sense to you people? Arb years and FA matter when discussing contracts.

If we assume a 2M buyout, then I was off by only 1M. Cano has a 15M option for his 2nd FA year, while BP had a 12M option. These contracts are similar and both very reasonable. However I would take the Cano contract because of the options and it makes him easier to trade.

jmac
02-15-2008, 07:08 PM
Great move !

Bip Roberts
02-15-2008, 07:08 PM
“I wanted a contract that would keep with the Reds for a long time,” he said. “This is the one team I want to play for. I don’t want to be with nobody else.

"The Reds gave me a second chance,” he said. “They opened up the door for me. The fans welcomed me with open arms. I want to make sure I give back to them. I want to do community service. I want to give back to the community. I’m going to do many things in the city. I’m going to go to certain places and try to find me a field. I want people to know who I am. I want to bring more people to the stadium. I want to be how Barry Larkin was."

Hard not to like his attitude

SMcGavin
02-16-2008, 12:16 AM
Hard not to like his attitude

Yep, we can all agree on that. I don't know what happened between here and Cleveland but he seems like a great guy to have representing your franchise.

Bip Roberts
02-16-2008, 12:39 AM
Yep, we can all agree on that. I don't know what happened between here and Cleveland but he seems like a great guy to have representing your franchise.

In his words they tried to turn him into a player he couldnt become and dubbed him to be uncoachable. I think thats kinda true about all players though.

AmarilloRed
02-16-2008, 01:37 AM
Here are the specifics on the deal:

Phillips and the Reds today confirmed his new deal, which runs through 2011 and includes a club option for 2012. Phillips hit .288 with 30 home runs, 94 RBI and 32 steals in 2007.

The new contract includes a $750,000 signing bonus and salaries of $2.75 million this year, $4.75 million in 2009, $6.75 million in 2010 and $11 million in 2011. The Reds have a $12 million option for 2012 with a $1 million buyout, and if Phillips is traded, the option becomes mutual option.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080215/SPT04/302150042/

BLEEDS
02-16-2008, 10:11 AM
SO, 3 years $15M - LOVE that, much better than the 3/20 people have quoted.

4th year at $11M. Maybe a TAD too much, but 4/26 hard to argue with.

5th year option for $12M. Love it. He'll be on the flip side of 30 by then, and we'll have to see if he is still worth the $$, if so, $12M might look like a ridiculous bargain.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

mlbfan30
02-16-2008, 01:26 PM
He would be a FA in that 11M year. It's about fair market considering he's buying out for security. But if BP was a FA, he'd get at least 15M in that year

AmarilloRed
02-18-2008, 12:00 AM
Here are some of the salary incentives that are built into the deal:

Base in 2009 increases by:
$250,000 for Gold Glove in 2008
$250,000 for Silver Slugger in 2008;
$250,000 if MVP (1st thru 5th) in 2008.
Base in 2010 increase by:
$250,000 for Gold Glove in 2009
$250,000 for Silver Slugger in 2009
$500,000 for MVP (1st thru 5th) in 2009.
Base in 2011 increases by:
$250,000 for Gold Glove in 2010
$250,000 for Silver Slugger in 2010
$750,000 for MVP (1st thru 5th) in 2010.
Base in 2012 increases by:
$250,000 for Gold Glove in 2010
$250,000 for Silver Slugger in 2011
$750,000 MVP (1st thru 5th) in 2011.
Plus:
$25,000 for All Star; $50,000 for LCS/MVP; $100,000 for WS/MVP.
Player will make annual donation to Reds Foundation.

mlbfan30
02-18-2008, 02:52 AM
If Chase Utley wasn't in the league he'd be making about 2M more.

bubbachunk
02-18-2008, 10:23 AM
Glad to see this finally got done before spring training.