Hypothetical ? Who would get pardoned by Bush, Barry or Roger?

[icehole3]

Just wondering, I know there's a chance neither will get convicted or Roger may not even go to trial. Im just sitting back and enjoying it all.

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Props/munch.gif

[RedFanAlways1966]

By the time any conviction (if any) happens, the pardon might have to come from President Obama, President Clinton II or President McCain.

That being said, I cannot vote b/c I lean towards NO PARDON.

[LoganBuck]

No Pardon

[cincrazy]

I almost find all of this comical in a way... don't get me wrong, I despise Clemens and Bonds for the way they mocked the game. It's a disgrace. But Congress is wasting it's time in my opinion. They're never going to find out all that they need to find out, and most of the congressman asking questions are a joke anyways.

I hate to say this, but it's a witch hunt. Bonds and Clemens are being driven to the guillotine with stakes, while there is no threat of Selig, Fehr, or Glenallen freakin Hill going to prison, for that matter.

The entire game of baseball, from Selig on down is responsible for this. Everyone knew about it, but the soaring attendance figures and booming TV ratings resulted in everyone ignoring the massive and growing problem.

If you ask me the entire game of baseball should be indicted for perjury.

Thanks for allowing me to vent :). If I have to see anymore Clemens or Bonds news, I'm going to get sick.

On to spring training!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cincinnati Reds, 2008 World Champs!!!! (Hey, if Ryan Dempster can do it, I can, too)

[Gainesville Red]

Don't mess with Texas.

[*BaseClogger*]

Don't mess with Texas.

:lol:

[KronoRed]

A pardon for sports players? no way.

[Rojo]

IThe entire game of baseball, from Selig on down is responsible for this. Everyone knew about it, but the soaring attendance figures and booming TV ratings resulted in everyone ignoring the massive and growing problem.

If you ask me the entire game of baseball should be indicted for perjury.

Word.

[M2]

I almost find all of this comical in a way... don't get me wrong, I despise Clemens and Bonds for the way they mocked the game. It's a disgrace. But Congress is wasting it's time in my opinion. They're never going to find out all that they need to find out, and most of the congressman asking questions are a joke anyways.

I hate to say this, but it's a witch hunt. Bonds and Clemens are being driven to the guillotine with stakes, while there is no threat of Selig, Fehr, or Glenallen freakin Hill going to prison, for that matter.

The entire game of baseball, from Selig on down is responsible for this. Everyone knew about it, but the soaring attendance figures and booming TV ratings resulted in everyone ignoring the massive and growing problem.

If you ask me the entire game of baseball should be indicted for perjury.

Great post.

[fearofpopvol1]

IF a player were to be pardoned and IF it were by Bush, I'd be inclined to say it would be Roger due to the Texas connection. Remember when Bush defended Rafael Palmeiro after he failed a steroids test??

[blumj]

By the time any conviction (if any) happens, the pardon might have to come from President Obama, President Clinton II or President McCain.

They don't have to wait for a conviction. I don't think Nixon had even been charged with anything yet when Ford pardoned him.

[Spitball]

They don't have to wait for a conviction. I don't think Nixon had even been charged with anything yet when Ford pardoned him.

Right, President Bush can extend a pre-emptive pardon before he leaves office which would protect Clemens in event an indictment is handed down afterward.

Bush would have little to lose.

[Rojo]

Right, President Bush can extend a pre-emptive pardon before he leaves office which would protect Clemens in event an indictment is handed down afterward.

Bush would have little to lose.


Pre-emptive pardon? Is that another way of saying "blanket immunity"? A "get out of jail free" card? Does the unitary executive have that much power?

[MrCinatit]

Pre-emptive pardon? Is that another way of saying "blanket immunity"? A "get out of jail free" card? Does the unitary executive have that much power?

Basically, I believe he does.
And had he the choice of Bonds or fellow Texan Clemens, I have no doubt in my mind it would be Clemens who would be pardoned.

[RedsBaron]

Basically, I believe he does.
And had he the choice of Bonds or fellow Texan Clemens, I have no doubt in my mind it would be Clemens who would be pardoned.

Yes, I believe the president has that power, but I will be very surprised if he uses it in this instance. Yes, presidents have been known to make questionable use of their pardon power, especially as they are about to leave office, but what is the defensible rationale for pardoning Clemens and not Bonds?
I've been surprised this thread has stayed open as long as it has....but here goes: To pardon Clemens and not Bonds would appear to be both politically motivated at best and racist at worse. Presidents have certainly done some stupid and arrogant things as they are packing their bags in their final days in office, but chosing Clemens over Bonds is like picking the better cow pattie-both stink and either one will get you dirty. I'll be surprised and disappointed if either one is pardoned.

[Chip R]

He has to be charged wih a crime before he can be pardoned. There was a story a few weeks ago that suggested that Bush was interested in being Commissioner of baseball after he left office. I think that getting involved in a pardon situation might not be the wisest thing to do if he eventually wants that gig.

[redsrule2500]

I'm going with "No Pardon"...

[oneupper]

IF they go to jail (and that's a big IF), they'll be out before a president (Bush or next) can sign a pardon.

[Spitball]

Pre-emptive pardon? Is that another way of saying "blanket immunity"? A "get out of jail free" card? Does the unitary executive have that much power?

This link might shed a little light on the process:

http://www.avantnews.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=41


By Ion Zwitter, Avant News Editor

Outgoing President George W. Bush followed yesterday in the footsteps of his predecessors by applying his traditional presidential power to absolve a number of friends and supporters of their criminal convictions. Included in the last-minute mercy package, however, was a novel twist: preemptive pardons.

"Just as preemptive war can be invoked as a by-product of slow-moving international deliberations, the preemptive pardon is a precedent born of the sluggish pace of the American judicial process," said Harriet Miers, Counsel to the President. "With so many indictments still pending, and more potentially in the works, the president felt it would be best to grant the pardons while he still had time. According to our interpretation of the rules, the individuals in question do not need to have been convicted prior to being pardoned. The pardon can be applied retroactively should pending or future legal proceedings result in a ruling against the defendant."

[paulrichjr]

This link might shed a little light on the process:

http://www.avantnews.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=41


You almost got me on this one... Look at the date...




President Sets Precedent With Preemptive Pardons
Posted by admin on 2005/8/10 9:37:05 (2539 reads)

By Ion Zwitter, Avant News Editor
Washington, DC, October 31, 2008

Outgoing President George W. Bush followed yesterday in the footsteps of his predecessors by applying his traditional presidential power to absolve a number of friends and supporters of their criminal convictions. Included in the last-minute mercy package, however, was a novel twist: preemptive pardons.
A D V E R T I S I N G

"Just as preemptive war can be invoked as a by-product of slow-moving international deliberations, the preemptive pardon is a precedent born of the sluggish pace of the American judicial process," said Harriet Miers, Counsel to the President. "With so many indictments still pending, and more potentially in the works, the president felt it would be best to grant the pardons while he still had time. According to our interpretation of the rules, the individuals in question do not need to have been convicted prior to being pardoned. The pardon can be applied retroactively should pending or future legal proceedings result in a ruling against the defendant."

Bush announced the precedent-setting preemptive pardons, which will protect in perpetuity a large swath of his administration's friends and supporters, personally during a rare press appearance in the White House Rose Garden.

[Rojo]

I'm with RB on this one, I don't think he can pardon without the other for the reasons he mentions. And I don't think he'd pardon either one.

[Spitball]

You almost got me on this one... Look at the date...


This was obviously a hypothetical story about a possible scenario. Presidents regularly hand out more than 300 pardons before they leave office. Clinton handed out nearly 400. Carter pardoned all Viet Nam draft dodgers.

I think it is a real possibility that Bush could pardon Clemens, but he would also have to pardon Bonds or the race issue would make it all too messy. High profile pardons are always controversial. Clinton's last pardon of financier Marc Rich, who had fled the country on tax evasion charges, caused a huge controversy.


From the New York Daily News:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/02/14/2008-02-14_could_president_bush_preemptively_pardon.html

[icehole3]

here is a step in the right direction IMO

per rotoworld

Last week, the Yogi Berra Museum removed Roger Clemens' jersey from its display honoring the Yankees' championship teams from the 1990s.
Museum director David Kaplan said the decision was made in the wake of allegations that the seven-time Cy Young Award winner took steroids. Kaplan said Berra signed off on the decision, but unfortunately the report did not include a snappy Yogi-ism.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=MLB&line=228825