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GAC
02-22-2008, 11:34 AM
Bought a 2008 Honda Civic about 2 weeks ago (that's good).

Put it in a ditch this morning driving home from work (that's not so good). It's the same 3-4 mile stretch of country road I drive to and fro work everyday. It pees a lot of people off because whenever there is bad weather the county (Shelby) never, never touches this stretch of road. They don't plow it, treat it, etc. And while it's not a main road, like a state route, many Honda associates travel this road everyday to get to the plant because we have to.

You will never see a county plow or salt truck on this road; but you can't spit and not hit a Sheriff, who patrol it like crazy trying to nail Honda employees with speeding tickets. We have learned all their hiding spots though. ;)

So I'm driving (creeping) about 25 mph down the road and I see the car about 100 yards ahead of me fishtail and then go off the leftside of the road and hit a telephone pole. So being the good Samaritan that I am I plan on stopping and offer assistance since it's out in the country and I always carry my cellphone.

When I get to the spot where he fishtailed, I soon realize WHY? It was pure whiteout to begin with. So you don't see the patch of snow that had drifted over that side of the road only. Even going as slow as I was, when I hit it, all was lost. It sucked me in like a black hole, grabbed the front end, and all I could do was hold onto the steering wheel, yell ****, and ride it out. I slid past him and down into the ditch and tore up my front bumper/fender. Got a sheriff's report, got it towed out, drove it into town, notified my agent, got an estimate ($1100.00). Nothing really major was damaged, so I am thankful for that.

Got home and there was one of those traffic light camera notices from a place called Safelight. It occurred in Springfield, Ohio over the Christmas Holidays. I'm originally from there, and we had gone down to visit my brother's family. It seems my wife tried to make a redlight while shopping with the sister-in-law. The video shows she didn't make it. It was close, but not conclusive enough to have a fighting chance of beating it. The check is in the mail.

So that shopping trip is costing me another $100. ;)

My brother lives says the citizens are simply outraged over the eight of them they have installed. They have turned into nice revenue makers for the city.

camisadelgolf
02-22-2008, 11:43 AM
Today's my birthday, and the only gifts I've gotten are socks and insulin. They're both practical, but I'm not exactly thrilled by being reminded that I'm a type 1 diabetic with no health insurance.

flyer85
02-22-2008, 11:53 AM
They have turned into nice revenue makers for the city.... which is their main purpose.

Chip R
02-22-2008, 11:56 AM
Today's my birthday, and the only gifts I've gotten are socks and insulin. They're both practical, but I'm not exactly thrilled by being reminded that I'm a type 1 diabetic with no health insurance.


Happy birthday, bud! :beerme: Hopefully your day goes better than GAC's does.

Good to know you're OK, GAC.

gonelong
02-22-2008, 12:04 PM
They have turned into nice revenue makers for the city.

I think they have GPS units that you can plot locations of interest on. If I lived in area that had Red Light Camers I'd probably go ahead and get one.

Bummer day.

A few weeks ago I got hit on I-75 by a drunk driver and had my car totaled. Luckily I am fine, but I just replaced a car that has been paid off for 5 years with a $460/month car payment. Sigh.

GL

Ltlabner
02-22-2008, 01:28 PM
My brother lives says the citizens are simply outraged over the eight of them they have installed. They have turned into nice revenue makers for the city.

Not to get into a discussion about concealed carry, but once the sheriff's departments realized they got a portion of the $55 fee for the liscence they quickly changed their tune on CCW. It's been a huge revenue stream for many departments.

But don't you worry, those red light cameras are only there for your safety.

Sorry to hear about your crappy day GAC.

camisadelgolf
02-22-2008, 01:56 PM
Happy birthday, bud! :beerme: Hopefully your day goes better than GAC's does.

Thank you much. My day's already picking up. I just received Amadeus on DVD and tax returns. I'm so glad I'm not GAC right now.

Chip R
02-22-2008, 02:10 PM
Thank you much. My day's already picking up. I just received Amadeus on DVD and tax returns. I'm so glad I'm not GAC right now.


Believe me, you should be glad you're not GAC all the time. :D

LoganBuck
02-22-2008, 02:14 PM
GAC what road? That pretty much tells the tale of all the roads to the East of State Rts 65 and 47? My road is plowed and treated pretty well by Logan county to the East, but Shelby county is half a mile to the west and they almost never treat the road at their end. I thought it would improve when a new township trustee was elected. But it has not.

SunDeck
02-22-2008, 02:55 PM
You will never see a county plow or salt truck on this road; but you can't spit and not hit a Sheriff, who patrol it like crazy trying to nail Honda employees with speeding tickets.



Gotta get the revenue back they lost through tax abatements.

Bummer about the wreck though- on the bright side it didn't burst into flames, brother.

;)

15fan
02-22-2008, 03:08 PM
I'll take the opposite approach on the cameras. Got nailed by one a couple of years ago. Thought it was a bunch of crap, etc.

But since then, I've found myself reaching for the brake rather than the gas on a more regular basis when a light in front of me turns yellow. As a result, I've had a couple of situations that would have been near-misses turn into non-events since I wasn't trying to race through a slightly red light.

Periodically seeing the signs for the monitored intersections reinforces the changed behavior that I'd argue is better not only for me, but for anyone else who might be at that same intersection.

MrCinatit
02-22-2008, 03:19 PM
Geez, GAC, if this is what you consider "Not a good day", remind me to not ask you what a bad day is.
Glad you are all right, though.

Spring~Fields
02-22-2008, 03:36 PM
Got home and there was one of those traffic light camera notices from a place called Safelight. It occurred in Springfield, Ohio over the Christmas Holidays. I'm originally from there, and we had gone down to visit my brother's family. It seems my wife tried to make a redlight while shopping with the sister-in-law. The video shows she didn't make it. It was close, but not conclusive enough to have a fighting chance of beating it. The check is in the mail.

So that shopping trip is costing me another $100. ;)

My brother lives says the citizens are simply outraged over the eight of them they have installed. They have turned into nice revenue makers for the city.

Good that you are still alive and did not have to suffer a severe lesson from the conditions beyond your control.

You betcha that we don't like them, those cameras.

Now you just pushed my buttons, I can't stand those cameras, our lights change inconsistently, some green to yellow to red a reasonable rate of change to give a driver time, then others change green to yellow RED faster than others, so what is true about safe stopping at those lights.

If you loan your car to another family member, regardless of who is driving the owner gets the surprise, $100 surprise. Poor elderly grandmother kind heartedly loans her car to a grandson whining his need for help, compassionate grandmother gets stuck with a nasty surprise that she can't afford, of course the deceptive grandson knows nothing of the light violation.

She has a heart condition, hip conditions and poor eye sight, so she turned her drivers license in, but happened to still have her car that she doesn’t drive. The city asks us to accept in good faith that they and their cameras make no mistakes, but, they will not take the word of an old lady in good faith that she did not violate the traffic laws and dismiss it. Believe me this city has been dogged regarding collection of their $100 lousy bucks from her. I assume she finally paid it though it was not her violation.

That light thing in Springfield has various other holes in it. I know another man that received one from Dayton, he was not in Dayton, he has alzheimers.

GAC
02-22-2008, 05:28 PM
... which is their main purpose.

Not if you talk to city officials, which I did today..... it's all about the safety of their citizenry. ;)

GAC
02-22-2008, 05:31 PM
Thank you much. My day's already picking up. I just received Amadeus on DVD and tax returns.

I just bought Amadeus, a collectors edition, last week. I also got my tax return too. I know where a portion of it is going to. ;)

GAC
02-22-2008, 05:35 PM
GAC what road? That pretty much tells the tale of all the roads to the East of State Rts 65 and 47? My road is plowed and treated pretty well by Logan county to the East, but Shelby county is half a mile to the west and they almost never treat the road at their end. I thought it would improve when a new township trustee was elected. But it has not.


Meranda Road. Which runs in front of the plant, and crosses 25A. I was heading east on it till I hit Wones Road. Turn right, go about a mile, turn left on 58 (also Maplewood Rd). It crosses 65, and then runs through Maplewood.

GAC
02-22-2008, 06:33 PM
Good that you are still alive and did not have to suffer a severe lesson from the conditions beyond your control.

You betcha that we don't like them, those cameras.

Now you just pushed my buttons, I can't stand those cameras, our lights change inconsistently, some green to yellow to red a reasonable rate of change to give a driver time, then others change green to yellow RED faster than others, so what is true about safe stopping at those lights.

If you loan your car to another family member, regardless of who is driving the owner gets the surprise, $100 surprise. Poor elderly grandmother kind heartedly loans her car to a grandson whining his need for help, compassionate grandmother gets stuck with a nasty surprise that she can't afford, of course the deceptive grandson knows nothing of the light violation.

She has a heart condition, hip conditions and poor eye sight, so she turned her drivers license in, but happened to still have her car that she doesn’t drive. The city asks us to accept in good faith that they and their cameras make no mistakes, but, they will not take the word of an old lady in good faith that she did not violate the traffic laws and dismiss it. Believe me this city has been dogged regarding collection of their $100 lousy bucks from her. I assume she finally paid it though it was not her violation.

That light thing in Springfield has various other holes in it. I know another man that received one from Dayton, he was not in Dayton, he has alzheimers.

I spent a lifetime in Springfield once. Glad I no longer live there. I am not a big fan of the city. The local government tries to act like they are a NYC, and that everyone is made of money when it comes to taxation, bond issues, etc.

And don't get me started on the screwed up school system. My brother has kids in three different schools, and there is no busing. So they are running kids all over the place.

You know the intersection well SF. It's the one at 41 and Bechtle, out by the mall, where Meirs, Monte Zinn, and a katrillion restaurants are located.

In my wife's situation - she is guilty. But I can guarantee that hundreds of people daily do what she did at that particular intersection.... you're waiting in the left turn lane forever trying to get across, the light goes green but doesn't stay green for long, and then right before you enter the intersection the light turns yellow then red, but you know you're going to make it through because there is a delay before the oncoming light turns green and the traffic moves.

I'm not saying it's right - only that everyone knows what I am talking about (and have probably done it).

My brother said another thing they are getting people on, and making a bundle, are those not coming to a complete stop on right turn on red. I'm referring to those that come up to the intersection, you're looking /watching, and your car is probably going 1 mph (slowly creeping). You see nothing coming so you proceed. They are burning them by the hundreds daily.

Also, if you stop, but are too far past the line where your front end breaks the photo eye, the camera takes your pic and sends you a notification. And each time it cost you $100. Think of the money they are probably getting daily on just that one intersection??

I personally think that in some of those situations it's being pretty petty, and it's downright tacky behavior by the city.

But the letter I got today was a second notification where they tack on another $30 and threaten you with civil action. I do not remember ever getting a first notification. And I open all my mail, unless it's a credit card notification.

But when I look at the envelope front, it just says it's from Safelight Photo Enforcement Program. If you're not familiar as to what that is (I don't live in Springfield, but was visiting), then I can see how someone could accidentally throw it in the trash as another solicitation (junk mail). Nowhere does the envelop front mention it's from that respective city's police department and is a traffic violation notification.

When I called the Safelight 1-800 national number to ask about why I never got a first time notification, the person on the other end was rude and not very helpful. All they wanted to know, not answer questions, was "Are you going to pass this now?" When I asked them who I needed to talk to about this they referred me to that city's police department. So I called the Springfield PD, and the Sgt in charge, explained that I never received a first notice, and he waived the $30. So I only had to pay them $100.

I also found out this is not a ticket and doesn't go on your state driving record. They talk tough in the letter they send you - "we could take civil action if this is not paid" - but they aren't. It's not like they are going to put out a warrant for your arrest. It would cost them more to try and get the $100 from you if you're from out of town. Just don't get pulled over though if you pass back through that town. ;)

LoganBuck
02-22-2008, 10:05 PM
Meranda Road. Which runs in front of the plant, and crosses 25A. I was heading east on it till I hit Wones Road. Turn right, go about a mile, turn left on 58 (also Maplewood Rd). It crosses 65, and then runs through Maplewood.

Man you are just south of me. I live up on 60. All those roads are treacherous this time of year. I get alot of Honda traffic as well, from people taking the Jackson Center bypass. The Honda folks don't like to see me on a tractor at about 3:30pm.

Spring~Fields
02-22-2008, 10:25 PM
You know the intersection well SF. It's the one at 41 and Bechtle, out by the mall, where Meirs, Monte Zinn, and a katrillion restaurants are located.

In my wife's situation - she is guilty. But I can guarantee that hundreds of people daily do what she did at that particular intersection.... you're waiting in the left turn lane forever trying to get across, the light goes green but doesn't stay green for long, and then right before you enter the intersection the light turns yellow then red, but you know you're going to make it through because there is a delay before the oncoming light turns green and the traffic moves.



Exactly, and you're right on all the rest that you wrote also.

It is their chronic journey to get more revenues without improving the city that burns me and their power and authority attitude, sometimes people are telling them the truth.

GAC
02-23-2008, 04:33 AM
Man you are just south of me. I live up on 60. All those roads are treacherous this time of year. I get alot of Honda traffic as well, from people taking the Jackson Center bypass. The Honda folks don't like to see me on a tractor at about 3:30pm.

I use to take 119E out of Anna, then 65 into Jackson Center, then 274 over to 33 into Bellefontaine. The roads are better maintained, or at least the trucks get to them faster; but it adds about 25 minutes to my driving time.

It's just that one stretch of Meranda that really bugs a lot of people. I don't know which township is in charge of maintaining it, if any; but once you get past there you see plows and salt trucks all over the place. I've watched county trucks come up a short way on Meranda, till that get to that stretch, and then turn off as if it's out of their territory or route. What? That section doesn't need treated/plowed?

I've been driving that way, to and from work, for almost 14 years. And in that time, during inclement weather, I can't tell you the vast number of cars that have ended up in the ditch.

Yesterday was my first time in all those years, so I count myself lucky I guess. If I hadn't been driving really slow to begin with (around 25 MPH), it could have been worse I guess.

And lets not get on the subject of deer. They must have a union hall somewhere nearby. :lol:

GAC
02-23-2008, 05:00 AM
Exactly, and you're right on all the rest that you wrote also.

It is their chronic journey to get more revenues without improving the city that burns me and their power and authority attitude, sometimes people are telling them the truth.

It's the main reason my family, and many others, moved out of Springfield and to the suburbs (Northridge). The city school system has been terribly ran, like the city, for quite some time. And over the last 30-40 years industries/manufacturing jobs have been leaving the area. If it wasn't for IH (Navistar) the city would be a ghost town.

I guess that new Superintendent of city schools is a real trip. My brother calls her the "dingbat". They have had two main high schools there (North High and South High). The south end use to be a very prestigious place to live in Springfield. My Dad graduated from South High back in the 40's. They lived over on Lafayette Ave. Went to school with comedian Jonathan Winters. But the south end of Springfield has been in such decline of the last 30-40 years, taken over by drugs and crime, why should city officials be surprised that families are moving out of there and abandoning it? And of course that is going to drastically hurt South High, and improve North High, when people are vacating one area and moving into the other. They want their kids to get a quality education and to be safe.

So now they've decided to vacate South High (and North High?) and build one huge, monumental high school and force everyone to attend it. And that is not counting all the new middle and grade schools they have recently built.

Yet they can't afford busing?? I personally believe they do stuff like this due to their arrogance, and wanting to get back at their citizenry, who don't bend to their will when it comes time for increased taxation, bond issues, various levies, etc. And it's why they do stuff like this Safelight monitoring program, while saying it's all about safety.

My brother told me that when they closed these other schools they had giant auctions on practically everything in those schools, from desks, various furniture, and even computers that were relatively new. You name it, they were selling it. He said it was like one of those "Everything Under A Dollar" stores. For a city/school system that cries they are hurting for revenue, they were giving this stuff away because they wanted to "start fresh" and buy everything new.

Typical Springfield.... tear it down and build new. Simply poor fiscal management, and always has been.

LoganBuck
02-23-2008, 12:47 PM
I use to take 119E out of Anna, then 65 into Jackson Center, then 274 over to 33 into Bellefontaine. The roads are better maintained, or at least the trucks get to them faster; but it adds about 25 minutes to my driving time.

It's just that one stretch of Meranda that really bugs a lot of people. I don't know which township is in charge of maintaining it, if any; but once you get past there you see plows and salt trucks all over the place. I've watched county trucks come up a short way on Meranda, till that get to that stretch, and then turn off as if it's out of their territory or route. What? That section doesn't need treated/plowed?

I've been driving that way, to and from work, for almost 14 years. And in that time, during inclement weather, I can't tell you the vast number of cars that have ended up in the ditch.

Yesterday was my first time in all those years, so I count myself lucky I guess. If I hadn't been driving really slow to begin with (around 25 MPH), it could have been worse I guess.

And lets not get on the subject of deer. They must have a union hall somewhere nearby. :lol:

What you describe is par for the course around here. Meranda Rd is the border road between Salem and Jackson Townships. My guess is that neither really claim it. When you get closer to Anna does it get better or worse? I never have a need to drive west on it past STR 65.

The deer really are bad near us, in my immediate family 4 different people have hit one in the last five years.

GAC
02-24-2008, 04:53 AM
When you get closer to Anna does it get better or worse? I never have a need to drive west on it past STR 65.

If you're coming from Jackson Center on 65, you turn right onto Meranda. Meranda goes for a bit and then you come up to that sharp left curve. If you go straight on then it becomes Wones Rd; But if you take another quick right turn, then that is still Meranda. This is the stretch of Meranda I'm referring to that runs all the way to, and crosses, 25A. None of it is ever plowed/treated, and I don't understand why.


The deer really are bad near us, in my immediate family 4 different people have hit one in the last five years.

The deer are bad everywhere. I live out in the country between Bellefontaine and Zanefield. I have a woods on the backend of my property. Tree Links Golf course is on the other side of the woods. Early morning or late evening, I have every critter known to man roaming (and grazing) in my yard. I don't mind the rabbits, raccoons, and groundhogs. But the deer tear the crap out of my yard and landscaping.

Sea Ray
02-25-2008, 11:14 AM
In my wife's situation - she is guilty. But I can guarantee that hundreds of people daily do what she did at that particular intersection.... you're waiting in the left turn lane forever trying to get across, the light goes green but doesn't stay green for long, and then right before you enter the intersection the light turns yellow then red, but you know you're going to make it through because there is a delay before the oncoming light turns green and the traffic moves.




Let me see if I get this right GAC. You're turning left in a busy intersection with oncoming traffic as they both have a green light. You pull out in the intersection and wait for the oncoming traffic to either break or as in this case it only stops when the light turns to red. Then you continue your left turn. Now you're telling me that this camera will snap a picture of you and you're guilty of running a red light?

That's how they taught us in driving school. If you are in the intersection when the light's green, you're free to continue your left hand turn when traffic allows. I'd fight that one on principle.

gonelong
02-25-2008, 12:36 PM
That's how they taught us in driving school. If you are in the intersection when the light's green, you're free to continue your left hand turn when traffic allows. I'd fight that one on principle.

I'd suspect legally you shouldn't pull forward until you are sure you can complete the left hand turn so that you are not blocking the intersection for emergency vehicals.

I think you'd lose that one on a technicality.

GL

LoganBuck
02-25-2008, 01:01 PM
I'd suspect legally you shouldn't pull forward until you are sure you can complete the left hand turn so that you are not blocking the intersection for emergency vehicals.

I think you'd lose that one on a technicality.

GL

I got in an accident at Ohio State at the corner of Lane and Fyffe at 9am on a bright sunny Friday. I was heading west on Lane, and turning south(left). I entered the intersection when the light was green. The light turned yellow, then red. The car in the right hand lane stopped, but the car in the inside lane kept coming, I assumed that they would stop and started to turn, the lady was going to try to run the RED light, she was looking directly into the sun. I hit her broadside. I was not cited. She wasn't either because she claimed it was yellow, and no witnesses stayed around. The cop on the scene told me that I was allowed to clear the intersection, if I was already in under green. They have changed that intersection now, to include a turn signal.

gonelong
02-25-2008, 01:16 PM
I got in an accident at Ohio State at the corner of Lane and Fyffe at 9am on a bright sunny Friday. I was heading west on Lane, and turning south(left). I entered the intersection when the light was green. The light turned yellow, then red. The car in the right hand lane stopped, but the car in the inside lane kept coming, I assumed that they would stop and started to turn, the lady was going to try to run the RED light, she was looking directly into the sun. I hit her broadside. I was not cited. She wasn't either because she claimed it was yellow, and no witnesses stayed around. The cop on the scene told me that I was allowed to clear the intersection, if I was already in under green. They have changed that intersection now, to include a turn signal.

Interesting. Still, I wonder if that's written down as law or this particular cop's application of the common practice? Since you'd be in front of a judge I'd want to know what the law (and no neccissarily the lawman) says about it.

GL

Cyclone792
02-25-2008, 03:42 PM
Interesting. Still, I wonder if that's written down as law or this particular cop's application of the common practice? Since you'd be in front of a judge I'd want to know what the law (and no neccissarily the lawman) says about it.

GL

I'm not sure what the actual law is so someone else can chime in there, but like others I was taught in driving school to "take control" of the intersection when waiting to make a left-hand turn. Then when yellow/red hits, you're allowed to clear the intersection and make your left turn.

The reasoning for allowing this, as described in driver's ed, is so traffic is actually able to move through each cycle of green lights. There are certain intersections at certain times of the day where the only time people are able to turn left is on yellow/red after taking control of the intersection. Otherwise somebody could sit at a half dozen light cycles waiting to turn while backing up traffic pretty badly (I've seen that happen, and boy does it stink if you're behind someone like that).

pedro
02-25-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm not sure what the actual law is so someone else can chime in there, but like others I was taught in driving school to "take control" of the intersection when waiting to make a left-hand turn. Then when yellow/red hits, you're allowed to clear the intersection and make your left turn.

The reasoning for allowing this, as described in driver's ed, is so traffic is actually able to move through each cycle of green lights. There are certain intersections at certain times of the day where the only time people are able to turn left is on yellow/red after taking control of the intersection. Otherwise somebody could sit at a half dozen light cycles waiting to turn while backing up traffic pretty badly (I've seen that happen, and boy does it stink if you're behind someone like that).

People don't do that here in portland. drives me absolutely batty. I think it's b/c they don't teach drivers ed in the high schools, you just have to pass the test.

some of these folks could stand to watch "red ashpalt"

GAC
02-25-2008, 08:12 PM
Let me see if I get this right GAC. You're turning left in a busy intersection with oncoming traffic as they both have a green light. You pull out in the intersection and wait for the oncoming traffic to either break or as in this case it only stops when the light turns to red. Then you continue your left turn. Now you're telling me that this camera will snap a picture of you and you're guilty of running a red light?

In this particular situation/intersection the oncoming traffic has a red light while the left turn only lane, which is two lanes, is green. So you won't be stopping waiting for the oncoming traffic to come through.

My wife was guilty. In fact, the car ahead of her also ran the red light trying to make the light. So I'm sure they got a notification also.


That's how they taught us in driving school. If you are in the intersection when the light's green, you're free to continue your left hand turn when traffic allows. I'd fight that one on principle.

I'm not sure how that situation would play out with a camera system, if you're sitting in the intersection waiting for oncoming traffic to get by so you can turn, and the light goes red.

I'm sure if they can make money on it they will.

Sea Ray
02-25-2008, 10:46 PM
That's a drag what happened to your new Civic. I get the impression you work for Honda so I was wonderin' how often do you get a new Honda?

GAC
02-26-2008, 08:28 AM
That's a drag what happened to your new Civic. I get the impression you work for Honda so I was wonderin' how often do you get a new Honda?

I've been at Honda 14 years. We bought our first Honda, an Odyssey, last year. My 95 Ford Sable finally puked (I drive them till they do), so I broke down and bought an '08 Civic two weeks ago.

But I take care of my cars, and hold onto them.

It wasn't really that bad. Nothing major. You have to get down and look under the front end to see any of the damage, which is to the plastic protective sheathing and the bumper/spoiler where it cracked.

But it's all one molded piece and still gonna cost $1100, of which I have to pay $300.

When I have had time to think about it, it could have been a lot worse if I hadn't been driving so slow. When it started to slide I didn't panic or slam on the brakes. Just held onto the steering wheel firmly and road it out. I thought I was going to avoid going into the ditch because I was going pretty slow; but the front end slid right in.

I scheduled Sunday night (Monday for 3rd shifters) off so I could run a few errands. When I returned to work last night all types of rumors had been running amok around the department.

The worst of it was I had totaled my car and had to be care-flighted out. When some saw me walking into work, in a surprised tone several asked "What are you doing here? You're all right." :lol:

RFS62
02-26-2008, 02:38 PM
When some saw me walking into work, in a surprised tone several asked "What are you doing here? You're all right." :lol:



Remember, these people know you.

I'm sure they were expecting something spectacular.

:p:

GAC
02-26-2008, 08:09 PM
Remember, these people know you.

I'm sure they were expecting something spectacular.

:p:

Yeah, I guess I let them down again. :p: