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View Full Version : Sorry to break it to some people but Chris Denorfia isnt good



Bip Roberts
02-24-2008, 02:52 AM
Sorry if it hurts anyones feelings. :(

Natty Redlocks
02-24-2008, 06:35 AM
Because you're clearly the final authority on these matters. Denorfia will very likely get a chance to settle this question this year.

Caveman Techie
02-24-2008, 08:11 AM
Is this just a statement out of the blue, you thought to yourself "self, I need to go inform the mass's of Chris's shortcommings"? Do you have any evidence of this "fact"? Or are you just trolling for trolling's sake?

fadetoblack2880
02-24-2008, 08:27 AM
I'd rather have Marcus McBeth.

reds2221
02-24-2008, 08:40 AM
Denofia has played a total of 67 major league games, during those games he has hit .278 with an OBP of .358 but with only 2 home runs. With the numbers he's shown in the time (althought very minimal) he's played, I wouldn't say he isn't good

GoReds33
02-24-2008, 12:05 PM
I'm just wondering, but does anybody really care about Denorfia anymore? He's not a Red, he's not in our division, and he's not in our league. He's a guy that may hit solidly, and play defense solidly for a few more years. Marcus McBeth IMO is more valuable to the Reds than he would have been.

fadetoblack2880
02-24-2008, 12:08 PM
I'm just wondering, but does anybody really care about Denorfia anymore? He's not a Red, he's not in our division, and he's not in our league. He's a guy that may hit solidly, and play defense solidly for a few more years. Marcus McBeth IMO is more valuable to the Reds than he would have been.

I agree.

Newman4
02-24-2008, 01:24 PM
I'm just wondering, but does anybody really care about Denorfia anymore?

Ah, I bet there's still a few on the ORG that do. Deno had some serious man love going on over that way for a long time. Amazingly, some of the same people that love Deno totally hate on Hopper.

Bip Roberts
02-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Ah, I bet there's still a few on the ORG that do. Deno had some serious man love going on over that way for a long time. Amazingly, some of the same people that love Deno totally hate on Hopper.

Exactly.

SMcGavin
02-24-2008, 02:02 PM
Ah, I bet there's still a few on the ORG that do. Deno had some serious man love going on over that way for a long time. Amazingly, some of the same people that love Deno totally hate on Hopper.

Amazing why? Denorfia has 5X the minor league resume that Hopper does. They are only similar in the batting averages, Denorfia takes tons of walks and has a bit of power. Oh and Denorfia is a superior defender.

I for one would love to have Denorfia around. I'd give him 200-300 ABs this year to see if he can carry over that minor league success, and if he does he'd be the answer in CF next year when Griffey leaves and Bruce goes to right.

FWIW I heard that Denorfia is going to start in CF for Oakland this year.

NorrisHopper30
02-24-2008, 03:58 PM
I'd rather have Hopper than Deno :)

Lockdwn11
02-24-2008, 04:29 PM
Give me Hopper as well.

HBP
02-24-2008, 04:41 PM
The emergence of Jay Bruce as baseballs best prospect has really made trading Denorfia irrelevant. If it were up to me, Bruce would be in CF on opening day and if Chris were still here he'd be a backup OF like Freel and Hopper.

SMcGavin
02-24-2008, 05:21 PM
The emergence of Jay Bruce as baseballs best prospect has really made trading Denorfia irrelevant. If it were up to me, Bruce would be in CF on opening day and if Chris were still here he'd be a backup OF like Freel and Hopper.

I agree he'd be on the bench this year, it's next year that I think Denorfia would be a big help. And to those who would take Hopper over Denorfia, how about a friendly wager on their 2008 numbers? Not for money or anything, but how about we just bring this thread back up in October and see who was right.

Va Red Fan
02-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Denorfia is a flash in the pan - so far. This season will answer many of the questions. I'd take Hopper and Freel over him anyday at this point. McBeth, I think, has real potential in the pen. That also is a wait and see thing.

mlbfan30
02-24-2008, 06:12 PM
What numbers do you take?

BA OBP SLG OPS
.290 .341 .337 .678
.296 .377 .441 .818

It really looks like the second player is better. Even if you include the MLB stats its not even close. I just don't give much weight into 300 at bats to determine the better player.

Newman4
02-24-2008, 08:01 PM
Amazing why? Denorfia has 5X the minor league resume that Hopper does. They are only similar in the batting averages, Denorfia takes tons of walks and has a bit of power. Oh and Denorfia is a superior defender.

I for one would love to have Denorfia around. I'd give him 200-300 ABs this year to see if he can carry over that minor league success, and if he does he'd be the answer in CF next year when Griffey leaves and Bruce goes to right.

FWIW I heard that Denorfia is going to start in CF for Oakland this year.

I'm not really into arguing about which 4th/AAAA OF is better. I meant they both get on base, have a decent BA, but no pop. Both are in the late 20s with Hopper a year and a few odd months older. Similar in age and similar in tools. Neither exactly set the world on fire. In fact, Hopper has better Major League numbers FWIW.

Deno: .278 .358 .382
Hopper: .332 .379 .396

The man love spewth over to the Sun Deck :rolleyes:

How about just playing Jay Bruce instead of either?

AmarilloRed
02-24-2008, 08:17 PM
Denorfia has 144 career major league at bats, Hopper 346. I think that qualifies as small sample size, and the book is still open on how good both players will turn out to be.

SMcGavin
02-24-2008, 08:18 PM
I meant they both get on base, have a decent BA, but no pop.

How about just playing Jay Bruce instead of either?

I'll assume that by "they both get on base" you mean Hopper's career .341 minor league OBP compared to Denorfia's .377. And I'll assume by "they both have no pop" you mean Hopper's .337 career SLG compared to Denorfia's .441.

The Hopper vs. Denorfia debate is not one that's really important to the Reds. But since somebody started a thread titled "Chris Denorfia is not good", don't be suprised when somebody makes a post including data which shows that he actually is pretty good.

Finally I don't think one person on this thread has advocated playing Hopper/Denorfia over Bruce. I know for sure I haven't.

BearcatShane
02-24-2008, 09:26 PM
Chris Denorfia and Norris Hopper are very simialr and in my opinion GOOD major league baseball players if you need a singles hitter or a solid bench player. They will both hit north of .285 for the next 3-5 years, I guarantee it. They're not great by any stretch of the imagination but they are good players and why we are having a discussion like this is beyond me.

Natty Redlocks
02-24-2008, 09:39 PM
Chris Denorfia and Norris Hopper are very simialr and in my opinion GOOD major league baseball players if you need a singles hitter or a solid bench player. They will both hit north of .285 for the next 3-5 years, I guarantee it. They're not great by any stretch of the imagination but they are good players and why we are having a discussion like this is beyond me.

We're having this discussion because some people pay attention to major league stats and nothing more when evaluating players. Some people think batting average is the most important stat when evaluating hitters.

Other people work a lot harder to get to the truth about a player. These people see a big difference between a Chris Denorfia and a Norris Hopper, and there's a good reason why most of them are in the ORG, and most of us are still in the kiddie pool.

Bip Roberts
02-24-2008, 09:40 PM
I love comparing 2 mediocre players :)

BearcatShane
02-24-2008, 09:50 PM
We're having this discussion because some people pay attention to major league stats and nothing more when evaluating players. Some people think batting average is the most important stat when evaluating hitters.

Other people work a lot harder to get to the truth about a player. These people see a big difference between a Chris Denorfia and a Norris Hopper, and there's a good reason why most of them are in the ORG, and most of us are still in the kiddie pool.



From the small sample size we've seen, if you can't see Norris Hopper are good solid major league players I can't help you. Their not great but I think Hopper and Denorfia bring alot to the table with the contact and their bunting skills. Both also play solid defence with Denorfia getting the edge in my opinion.

BearcatShane
02-24-2008, 09:51 PM
I love comparing 2 mediocre players :)


Lol, only 36 days away my friend..

Bip Roberts
02-24-2008, 09:57 PM
Lol, only 36 days away my friend..

Cant get here any sooner

Rocket_Fuel
02-24-2008, 10:01 PM
Denorfia has 144 career major league at bats, Hopper 346. I think that qualifies as small sample size, and the book is still open on how good both players will turn out to be.

Hopper's sample is much bigger and far more successful, so I'll take Hopper thank you.

BearcatShane
02-24-2008, 10:02 PM
Gee, I didn't know you were the be all end all on all discussions about baseball talk. :rolleyes:

Ya Learn something new everyday..

Rocket_Fuel
02-24-2008, 10:04 PM
I'll assume that by "they both get on base" you mean Hopper's career .341 minor league OBP compared to Denorfia's .377. And I'll assume by "they both have no pop" you mean Hopper's .337 career SLG compared to Denorfia's .441.

The Hopper vs. Denorfia debate is not one that's really important to the Reds. But since somebody started a thread titled "Chris Denorfia is not good", don't be suprised when somebody makes a post including data which shows that he actually is pretty good.

Finally I don't think one person on this thread has advocated playing Hopper/Denorfia over Bruce. I know for sure I haven't.

You can have Denorfia's minor league stats superiority we'll take Hopper's superior MAJOR league stats.

BearcatShane
02-24-2008, 10:06 PM
In 2007 Norris Hopper hit .351 vs Lefties and .316 vs righties. Norris Hopper hit .327 with runners in scoring position. He had on OBP of 371. He has 37 strikeouts in 346 career at bats. He is not a star but I certainly think those qualify as good solid numbers and he would be a good solid player for a team with a ton of run producers that could use a singles hitter.

AmarilloRed
02-24-2008, 11:43 PM
I still think Hopper has the potential to be a starting outfielder for a number of years. His OBP is largely batting average-driven, and if it drops you will a corresponding drop in his OBP. He will need to show more discipline at the plate, and take more walks to become a true lead-off hitter and a starting outfielder.

Natty Redlocks
02-25-2008, 06:48 AM
In 2007 Norris Hopper hit .351 vs Lefties and .316 vs righties. Norris Hopper hit .327 with runners in scoring position. He had on OBP of 371. He has 37 strikeouts in 346 career at bats. He is not a star but I certainly think those qualify as good solid numbers and he would be a good solid player for a team with a ton of run producers that could use a singles hitter.

If Hopper can continue that OBP over 600 plate appearances I'll take him at leadoff every day until someone better comes along. Freel did the same thing when he was fighting for playing time; as soon as they traded Kearns and gave him an everyday position he started to slide and hasn't come up since. I don't know if Hopper would do the same but to assume he'll continue what he's done over an entire season is naive, IMO. Hopefully Dusty can play the hot hand between Hopper and Freel but I think it's naive to hope for that too.

Newman4
02-25-2008, 02:07 PM
why most of them are in the ORG, and most of us are still in the kiddie pool.

I CHOOSE to be part of an open forum called the Sun Deck. I DON'T want to be in ORG. From years of reading and posting, these guys here are just as interesting to talk Reds baseball with as anyone. If you don't want to be here then why not "apply" to be part of the ORG? Don't knock us here though.

As far as Major League production, Denorfia hasn't done much to prove that he's much more than a singles hitter that gets on base. Thus, the comparison to Hopper. I'm well aware of his minor league numbers and that they're better than Hopper's. It seems difficult for the Deno manlovers to take it that their boy hasn't produced at the ML level.

mlbfan30
02-25-2008, 02:56 PM
I'm tired of people saying Denorfia and Hopper are even in power.
In 3390 AB, Hopper has 90 2B, 29 3B, 3 HR
In 2000 AB, Hopper has 97 2B, 24 3B, 48 HR
Look at the difference in AB and those numbers. It's not even close.

ChatterRed
02-25-2008, 05:56 PM
This thread makes me laugh.

Stephenk29
02-25-2008, 06:01 PM
agreed 33 posts on the skill level of an Oakland A's farm hand.

kaldaniels
02-25-2008, 06:11 PM
agreed 33 posts on the skill level of an Oakland A's farm hand.

But he used to be our farmhand...don't you realize. He will pull at the heart strings of certain people in here for the next twenty years. :rolleyes:

forfreelin04
02-25-2008, 06:26 PM
There's a reason why it took both of them awhile to break out of the minor leagues.

One thing I can say about Deno: While he was up in the late summer of 2006. He seemed to always swing off his front foot, which caused him to beat balls into the ground to SS. That's something I used to do when I got into a rut in High School ball. If he ran into such things as an over 25 year old ML, I don't think he will ever amount to much. Then again, I could be wrong.

Bip Roberts
02-25-2008, 07:32 PM
This thread makes me laugh.

I feel like I accomplished something now

gedred69
02-25-2008, 07:34 PM
Cant get here any sooner

If it can't get here any sooner, then you should go to some games in Fla. That way you could maybe see some of the bubble players show what they have or don't have to help the team.

Bip Roberts
02-25-2008, 07:36 PM
If it can't get here any sooner, then you should go to some games in Fla. That way you could maybe see some of the bubble players show what they have or don't have to help the team.

Im working on that :)

SMcGavin
02-25-2008, 10:13 PM
It seems difficult for the Deno manlovers to take it that their boy hasn't produced at the ML level.

He's had 140 ABs in the major leagues. I can't speak for everyone but I don't think he's gonna be a star, I think he's gonna be a cheap starter who gives you plus defense with roughly league average hitting for a CF. As I said before, there's not much else to debate on this thread, so we should just bring it back up at the end of the year and compare the seasons that Hopper and Deno had.

Newman4
02-26-2008, 10:13 AM
I feel like I accomplished something now

It's been fun. Thanks, Bip, you're a good guy even if you don't like Denorfia! All you had to do was mention the name of The Chosen One and people get all pissy. ;)

Bip Roberts
02-26-2008, 10:39 AM
It's been fun. Thanks, Bip, you're a good guy even if you don't like Denorfia! All you had to do was mention the name of The Chosen One and people get all pissy. ;)

:laugh: