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TRF
02-27-2008, 03:48 PM
Excluding their #1 prospect, who would you go after?

A guy I see slipping under the radar is Houston's Chance Douglass. Had a very good year going at AA, but got killed after being promoted to AAA. The PCL can be an abrupt wake up call. his numbers at AA though... 80 ip, 70 hits, 21 BB's 1.13 WHIP. His 7.31 K/9 at AA isn't by any means overpowering, but he's an interesting pitcher.

*BaseClogger*
02-27-2008, 05:37 PM
check out Chicago White Sox's Jack Egbert:


Year Team Lg Age Org Level W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%
2005 Kannapolis SAL 22 Chw A 10 5 3.12 30 24 4 3 0 147.0 127 66 51 5 48 107 10 0 7.78 0.31 2.94 6.55 1.19 --
2006 Winst-Salm Caro 23 Chw A+ 9 8 2.69 25 25 0 0 0 0 140.2 128 57 42 2 46 120 2 0 8.19 0.13 2.94 7.68 1.24 --
Birmingham Sou 23 Chw AA 0 2 0.86 4 4 0 0 0 0 21.0 17 4 2 0 8 24 1 0 7.29 0.00 3.43 10.29 1.19 --
2007 Birmingham Sou 24 Chw AA 12 8 3.06 28 28 0 0 0 0 161.2 138 63 55 3 44 165 6 0 7.68 0.17 2.45 9.19 1.13 --

Minor League Totals - 4 Season(s) 35 24 2.93 104 90 4 3 0 529.0 461 215 172 12 179 468 23 7.84 0.20 3.05 7.96 1.21 --

edabbs44
02-27-2008, 09:23 PM
check out Chicago White Sox's Jack Egbert:


Year Team Lg Age Org Level W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP GB%
2005 Kannapolis SAL 22 Chw A 10 5 3.12 30 24 4 3 0 147.0 127 66 51 5 48 107 10 0 7.78 0.31 2.94 6.55 1.19 --
2006 Winst-Salm Caro 23 Chw A+ 9 8 2.69 25 25 0 0 0 0 140.2 128 57 42 2 46 120 2 0 8.19 0.13 2.94 7.68 1.24 --
Birmingham Sou 23 Chw AA 0 2 0.86 4 4 0 0 0 0 21.0 17 4 2 0 8 24 1 0 7.29 0.00 3.43 10.29 1.19 --
2007 Birmingham Sou 24 Chw AA 12 8 3.06 28 28 0 0 0 0 161.2 138 63 55 3 44 165 6 0 7.68 0.17 2.45 9.19 1.13 --

Minor League Totals - 4 Season(s) 35 24 2.93 104 90 4 3 0 529.0 461 215 172 12 179 468 23 7.84 0.20 3.05 7.96 1.21 --

Jersey pride.

mth123
02-27-2008, 09:31 PM
I like a lot of guys. Limiting the list to guys who may be obtainable because of an established guy in front of them and who play spots where the Reds are really thin in the system.

Taylor Teagarden - C - Texas #4 (Saltalamacchia)
Chris Nelson - SS - Colorado #7 (Tulowitzki)
Justin Maxwell - CF- Washington #8 (Milledge)
John Jaso - C- Tampa Bay #13 (Navarro)
Wilson Ramos - C - Minnesota #3 (Mauer)
Delwyn Young - OF - LA Dodgers #9 (Kemp, Ethier, Pierre)

TOBTTReds
02-27-2008, 09:54 PM
Justin Maxwell - CF- Washington #8 (Milledge)


I thought about him when the Nats made those trades. But he reminds me of Dickerson too much.

NorrisHopper30
02-27-2008, 09:58 PM
Delwyn Young - OF - LA Dodgers #9 (Kemp, Ethier, Pierre)

And Andruw Jones.

Bip Roberts
02-28-2008, 03:09 AM
Is Young still a 2b prospect or did they completely give that up?

Cedric
02-28-2008, 03:40 AM
I like a lot of guys. Limiting the list to guys who may be obtainable because of an established guy in front of them and who play spots where the Reds are really thin in the system.

Taylor Teagarden - C - Texas #4 (Saltalamacchia)
Chris Nelson - SS - Colorado #7 (Tulowitzki)
Justin Maxwell - CF- Washington #8 (Milledge)
John Jaso - C- Tampa Bay #13 (Navarro)
Wilson Ramos - C - Minnesota #3 (Mauer)
Delwyn Young - OF - LA Dodgers #9 (Kemp, Ethier, Pierre)

Chris Nelson is as well known as most Reds prospects on this Reds board. He started a holy war once.

mth123
02-28-2008, 04:04 AM
Is Young still a 2b prospect or did they completely give that up?

I think they look at Young as a corner player because he doesn't run well. He isn't considered a guy for CF (which is why I didn't list Andruw Jones as a guy blocking him), but might be a guy for RF after Griffey is gone. He could probably still play 2b in a pinch and I wonder if he could also play 3B occassionally (but I've never heard of him being tried there). It would be nice to have a guy who could hit LH in the mix for those IF spots when somebody needs a rest. He is probably a platoon guy who hits well as LH Hitter and struggled against LH Pitching until last year. I only list him because he obviously has nowhere to play in LA and I think he may be out of options. I wonder if he's a guy the Reds could steal and stash on the bench as a LHPH and extra OF. He doesn't walk much and I'd rather get a guy who can play CF, but with Dunn and Griffey potentially gone after 2008, the Reds will need an OF who has some offensive ability even if the Reds can keep one of them.

mth123
02-28-2008, 06:06 AM
I thought about him when the Nats made those trades. But he reminds me of Dickerson too much.

Maxwell was hurt a lot in college and also in 2006 when he started out in pro ball. In 2007 he was a little old for his competition but put up .301/.389/.579 in A Ball in about 235 PA and .263/.338/.491 in about 250 PA. I don't recall Dickerson ever putting up that kind of production. He probably spends 2008 in AA and maybe AAA if he does well and could be ready for the OF mix about when the Reds will have some openings there. He's not a guy that I would give up a ton for, but maybe he can be had for a guy that the Reds don't have room for that may deserve a major league job. With all the pitchers in camp who knows what happens. Todd Coffey could be squeezed out in Cincy and he does go back to the Bowden era. I could see the Nats being interested. Same for Brad Salmon. Either of those guys would help the Nats pen.

lollipopcurve
02-28-2008, 07:16 AM
Taylor Teagarden - C - Texas #4 (Saltalamacchia)
Chris Nelson - SS - Colorado #7 (Tulowitzki)
Justin Maxwell - CF- Washington #8 (Milledge)
John Jaso - C- Tampa Bay #13 (Navarro)
Wilson Ramos - C - Minnesota #3 (Mauer)
Delwyn Young - OF - LA Dodgers #9 (Kemp, Ethier, Pierre)

Nice list, especially the catchers. If Nelson continues to progress, Colorado will probably slide him over to 2B. Ramos is still young, and I think Minnesota will hold onto him while they wait and see how well Mauer knees hold up over the next couple of years. Don't know much about Jaso.....neither do I know how strongly TB is committed to Navarro.

I really think Teagarden could be available for the right price. Probably pitching.

edabbs44
02-28-2008, 07:52 AM
Pitching, pitching, pitching.

klw
02-28-2008, 10:16 AM
I like a lot of guys. Limiting the list to guys who may be obtainable because of an established guy in front of them and who play spots where the Reds are really thin in the system.

Taylor Teagarden - C - Texas #4 (Saltalamacchia)
Chris Nelson - SS - Colorado #7 (Tulowitzki)
Justin Maxwell - CF- Washington #8 (Milledge)
John Jaso - C- Tampa Bay #13 (Navarro)
Wilson Ramos - C - Minnesota #3 (Mauer)
Delwyn Young - OF - LA Dodgers #9 (Kemp, Ethier, Pierre)

I think had the Reds been targeting or willing to pay the price for Teagarden the Hamilton trade would have included him.

lollipopcurve
02-28-2008, 10:38 AM
I think had the Reds been targeting or willing to pay the price for Teagarden the Hamilton trade would have included him.

Very possible. However, it may have added a complication that they just couldn't work out at the time. The fact that Krivsky and Daniels were able to close a deal at all makes me somewhat hopeful they could do it again.

klw
02-28-2008, 11:10 AM
Very possible. However, it may have added a complication that they just couldn't work out at the time. The fact that Krivsky and Daniels were able to close a deal at all makes me somewhat hopeful they could do it again.

Or Texas may want more time to see Salty before being comfortable moving Teagarden

lollipopcurve
02-28-2008, 11:23 AM
Or Texas may want more time to see Salty before being comfortable moving Teagarden

Yep. Personally, I think they need to put Salty at first since they have no one there. If not this year, then definitely next year when Teagarden should be ready.

princeton
02-28-2008, 11:32 AM
I like a lot of guys. Limiting the list to guys who may be obtainable because of an established guy in front of them and who play spots where the Reds are really thin in the system.

Taylor Teagarden - C - Texas #4 (Saltalamacchia)
Chris Nelson - SS - Colorado #7 (Tulowitzki)
Justin Maxwell - CF- Washington #8 (Milledge)
John Jaso - C- Tampa Bay #13 (Navarro)
Wilson Ramos - C - Minnesota #3 (Mauer)
Delwyn Young - OF - LA Dodgers #9 (Kemp, Ethier, Pierre)

you're hired. Get to work.

Highlifeman21
02-28-2008, 11:51 AM
No surprise here that we should be targeting catching prospects leaguewide, since we lack any ourselves....

dougdirt
02-28-2008, 12:14 PM
No surprise here that we should be targeting catching prospects leaguewide, since we lack any ourselves....

We actually have two decent guys. Craig Tatum and Devin Mesoraco. League wide there is a lack of catching prospects, or even catchers for that matter.

Highlifeman21
02-28-2008, 02:49 PM
We actually have two decent guys. Craig Tatum and Devin Mesoraco. League wide there is a lack of catching prospects, or even catchers for that matter.

Like I said, lack of prospects, so we should be trying to trade from any surplus we have, in hopes to pry a catching prospect from another team.

dougdirt
02-28-2008, 02:50 PM
Like I said, lack of prospects, so we should be trying to trade from any surplus we have, in hopes to pry a catching prospect from another team.

The odds of landing a catching prospect any better than the ones we have probably aren't good.

lollipopcurve
02-28-2008, 02:52 PM
Like I said, lack of prospects, so we should be trying to trade from any surplus we have, in hopes to pry a catching prospect from another team.

Mesoraco's a legit prospect. He may not develop, but he's a legit prospect. The urgent need to find a young catcher has to do with Mesoraco's age, not his potential.

mth123
02-28-2008, 06:33 PM
Mesoraco's a legit prospect. He may not develop, but he's a legit prospect. The urgent need to find a young catcher has to do with Mesoraco's age, not his potential.

The real problem is that the Reds need a catcher for 2008. But if we assume that 2008 is a year that we're stuck with Ross and Javy, then 2009 there is nothing. I think Tatum should get a long look and Hanigan too. Hanigan is a baseclogging journeyman with no power, but he isn't an automatic out and he is a decent defender.

Mesoraco is probably 5 years away even if he works out.

dougdirt
02-28-2008, 06:45 PM
we don't NEED a prospect to take over the catching spot anytime soon. There is a thing called free agency.

mth123
02-28-2008, 08:20 PM
we don't NEED a prospect to take over the catching spot anytime soon. There is a thing called free agency.

Except decent catchers don't hit free agency and likely you'd end up with more expensive versions of the junk we have. If a good one does come-up, the cost is through the moon. I'll take my chances with a young guy who may be in a bad situation. May not be able to get the three particular guys that I listed though without feeling a little pain.

dougdirt
02-28-2008, 09:16 PM
Except decent catchers don't hit free agency and likely you'd end up with more expensive versions of the junk we have. If a good one does come-up, the cost is through the moon. I'll take my chances with a young guy who may be in a bad situation. May not be able to get the three particular guys that I listed though without feeling a little pain.
Decent catchers? There are maybe 6 or 7 decent catchers in all of baseball. Fact of the matter is, most teams have a horrible hitting catchers, so if you are on the same playing field as 80% of the rest of baseball, then you aren't too bad off.

There were 28 catchers in baseball last year with over 290 at bats. 22 of them had an OPS below .775 and only 4 of them were over .800. 18 of the 28 (64%) were below .740. Heck, 10 of 28 (35%) had an OPS below .700. Catcher is a position where basically, only the lucky few have a guy who can hit worth a crap and the rest of the league is just hoping that their guy plays good defense.

In free agency, you can find guys who can play good defense and can't hit worth a crap at the catcher position.

Highlifeman21
02-28-2008, 09:26 PM
So, here's a question for everyone.....

If you can only choose one, would you prefer a Mike Piazza type that is all stick, no D and can't call a good game and is average at best behind the dish, or....

would you prefer a .700-.750 OPS catcher that is above-average to well-above-average defensively and can call a good game and throw a runner or two out here and there?

Each has their respective value....

Mark me down for Tony Pena, who couldn't hit his weight (or so it seemed), but could call a good game and could throw runners out.

Bip Roberts
02-28-2008, 10:45 PM
Ill take the defensive catcher every day of the week. I dont like the idea of letting your worst defender touching the ball that much.

mth123
02-29-2008, 04:09 AM
So, here's a question for everyone.....

If you can only choose one, would you prefer a Mike Piazza type that is all stick, no D and can't call a good game and is average at best behind the dish, or....

would you prefer a .700-.750 OPS catcher that is above-average to well-above-average defensively and can call a good game and throw a runner or two out here and there?

Each has their respective value....

Mark me down for Tony Pena, who couldn't hit his weight (or so it seemed), but could call a good game and could throw runners out.


I'll take an average defender that can OPS .750. I don't think the current tandem can meet those standards on offense or defense, though Ross is pretty good at throwing runners out while trying to steal. Both Ross and Javy are on the wrong side of 30 and only go downhill from here.

mth123
02-29-2008, 06:16 AM
Decent catchers? There are maybe 6 or 7 decent catchers in all of baseball. Fact of the matter is, most teams have a horrible hitting catchers, so if you are on the same playing field as 80% of the rest of baseball, then you aren't too bad off.

There were 28 catchers in baseball last year with over 290 at bats. 22 of them had an OPS below .775 and only 4 of them were over .800. 18 of the 28 (64%) were below .740. Heck, 10 of 28 (35%) had an OPS below .700. Catcher is a position where basically, only the lucky few have a guy who can hit worth a crap and the rest of the league is just hoping that their guy plays good defense.

In free agency, you can find guys who can play good defense and can't hit worth a crap at the catcher position.

Sounds like you are making my case for me. If decent catchers are such a scarce commodity, then it should not be unreasonable to target a rising minor leaguer who may have no place in his current organization. Seems like a scarce commodity like that, who has his cheap and improving years ahead of him, would be worth giving up something for.

lollipopcurve
02-29-2008, 08:45 AM
Sounds like you are making my case for me. If decent catchers are such a scarce commodity, then it should not be unreasonable to target a rising minor leaguer who may have no place in his current organization. Seems like a scarce commodity like that, who has his cheap and improving years ahead of him, would be worth giving up something for.

Been saying it for a while now. The catching position is in extremis in my opinion. I don't think Ross will hit at all, and I think he's overrated defensively. Valentin is weak defensively and can't play full-time anyway. Bako is a backup at best. Tatum/Hanigan appear to be marginal, though there is a chance one will step forward in 2008. After that, zilch for the forseeable future.

I would have liked to see Michael Barrett here, and maybe there's a chance of that next year. But I'd hope Krivsky has discussed Teagarden with Jon Daniels. I'm pretty certain the Reds would have the goods to acquire him if he becomes available.

jojo
02-29-2008, 09:32 AM
Jeff Niemann...classic buy low situation from an organization that is busting at the seems with young arms.

dougdirt
02-29-2008, 12:19 PM
Sounds like you are making my case for me. If decent catchers are such a scarce commodity, then it should not be unreasonable to target a rising minor leaguer who may have no place in his current organization. Seems like a scarce commodity like that, who has his cheap and improving years ahead of him, would be worth giving up something for.

It was more of a point that its going to be very tough to get a team to give up a decent catching prospect because they are so rare.

Tom Servo
03-02-2008, 01:56 PM
Delwyn Young - OF - LA Dodgers #9 (Kemp, Ethier, Pierre)
I got to see the Mets/Dodgers spring training game yesterday where Torre played Young at 2B to see what versatility he could offer. Young not only made the routine plays he made about 3 tremendous diving stops on hard hit balls. It blew my mind. I would love to see the Reds pick up Young.

gedred69
03-02-2008, 03:02 PM
I have not been able to find out what happened to Petr Cech the GCL catcher from the Czech republic? He started off hitting well (limited ABs), and dissappeared. He is still listed as "Active". Anybody know what's up?

I would bet Teagarden is pretty much untouchable, although a nice wish for sure. As rare as good catchers are who can also hit, if I had him I wouldn't trade him, for anything less than being over-whelmed with a lop-sided offer. Ramos is not really any further along than Mesoraco when factoring a minus for his thumb problems last year w/ GCL Reds.

dougdirt
03-02-2008, 09:00 PM
I have not been able to find out what happened to Petr Cech the GCL catcher from the Czech republic? He started off hitting well (limited ABs), and dissappeared. He is still listed as "Active". Anybody know what's up?


I don't know if he was injured, but the Reds have a ton of depth at catcher in the rookie levels and Mesoraco was on the same team as Cech, so it was going to severely limit his playing time.

Triples
03-21-2008, 04:32 PM
It was more of a point that its going to be very tough to get a team to give up a decent catching prospect because they are so rare.


Amen Doug, anyone with a decent to good catching prospect is not going to give him up without quite a high price tag. Besides, why pick up another unknown catching prospect when you have Tatum and Mesoraco who both have some promise of their own and may not be getting enough credit for their abilities. If you're going to trade for a "prospect" catcher he would need to be Jay Bruce in shin guards and that his going be verrrrrry expensive.