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westofyou
02-29-2008, 10:59 AM
Dodgers' Bowa says he will ignore helmet rule for coaches.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-bowa29feb29,1,39353.story?track=rss&ctrack=1&cset=true



The third base coach says he'll 'really make a joke out of it.'
February 29, 2008

VERO BEACH, Fla. -- To protest baseball's new rule requiring base coaches to wear helmets, Larry Bowa threatened to march to his work station along the third base line wearing shin guards, a chest protector and a mask.

"I'll really make a joke out of it," Bowa said.

Bowa refused to wear a helmet in the Dodgers' exhibition opener Thursday at Holman Stadium and said he had no intention of doing so in the future. First base coach Mariano Duncan also ignored the rule that stemmed from the death of Mike Coolbaugh, who was struck by a line drive while coaching first base in the minor leagues last season.

"I'm willing to write out a check for whatever the fine is for every game," Bowa said. "Whatever 162 games is, I'll write out a check for it."

Bowa says helmets are uncomfortable and that veteran coaches should be able to decide on their own whether to wear them. He argued that broken bats are more dangerous than batted balls and that if coaches had to wear helmets, umpires should be forced to do so as well.

Bowa, who Thursday wore a cap lined on the inside with thin plastic, says he isn't the only coach who feels this way.

"There are a lot of coaches that I've talked to who aren't saying anything so I feel like I'm talking for those guys," Bowa said. "They don't want to wear them."


http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/914994.html


Bowa Constrictor
2008-02-29 07:02
by Jon Weisman

I don't really want to get into the politics of new Dodger third-base coach Larry Bowa's rebellion against Major League Baseball's new helmet rule for coaches – or I guess to be blunt, I don't want the commenters of Dodger Thoughts to do so, because political discussion is against the site rules. But to offer a few thoughts:

1) The argument that the helmets are uncomfortable echoes an argument people had against wearing seat belts when those became compulsory. If it wasn't common sense already, we learned that people get used to things and the discomfort disappears. Also, getting hurt less tends to be more comfortable than getting hurt more.

2) The argument that umpires are in more danger than coaches, if it's true, doesn't imply you should be fighting against helmets for coaches. It implies that we just need to consider helmets for umpires.

3) From a Dodger perspective, consider that Bowa is a man in authority, expecting to be listened to, telling the world that he has no intention of listening to authority.

You may agree or disagree with Bowa's opinion on helmets (we know where Vin Scully would stand). But I do think it qualifies as irony that on a day that criticism renewed of Dodger players running through stop signs, Bowa is running through one himself.

RANDY IN INDY
02-29-2008, 11:07 AM
Not sure how I feel about this one. In this situation, I somehow think that it should be left up to the individual. The coaches on the baselines are not in nearly as much danger as the pitcher. I understand MLB being proactive, but these guys have been around the game for a long time and they are adults that can make a decision for themselves. I agree with Bowa about the bats being more dangerous than the balls. Next thing you know, they are going to put up plexi-glass or netting up and down the baselines to protect the fans.

Team Clark
02-29-2008, 11:25 AM
I am not sure where to stand on this issue. I respect that Bowa and others do not want to wear the helmet/shell. The "shell" the coaches are actually wearing, from what I can tell, wouldn't have saved Coolbaugh's life. Just from what I can tell.

I know that everyone wants to look cool out on the field and the shell certainly takes away from that. I just wonder if there is a better solution? Rules are rules though and I am not advocating that Bowa or any other coach has the authority to undermine the establishmnet.

princeton
02-29-2008, 11:37 AM
first hockey games that I ever attended had the maskless Andy Brown in goal.

RANDY IN INDY
02-29-2008, 11:38 AM
TC, I think you would agree that the helmets are not that uncomfortable, but I know they are quite hot in the middle of the summer. If it were me, I would probably just suck it up and put the helmet on, but I understand and respect the guys that don't want to wear it.

Phhhl
02-29-2008, 11:39 AM
Bowa should wear the "shell" and shut up. People that work with food probably don't enjoy hair nets. Men who work in hospitals don't look real cool wearing collar-less smocks. My dad was an outstanding body and fender man, but felt like a clown wearing a blue and white striped shirt that identified him as Mr. Goodwrench. Granted, not all of that is safety gear, but the point is that you have to drive around in a car with a big bug on it or a Dominoe's pizza sign to make a living once in a while. There are rules, and they are set by the folks you make out the checks. Baseball is no different. I would fine him the first couple times he doesn't comply, then escalate it if he insists.

Unassisted
02-29-2008, 11:44 AM
I predict that Bud makes the decision easier for Bowa. We'll see if Bowa's head is hard enough to lose his job over the lack of a helmet on it.

Triples
02-29-2008, 11:44 AM
Baseball has been played for what a 100+ years and one coach has died from a batted ball(that I know of anyway). While I disagree with Bowa's approach to the situation (although not a bit surprised that he'd act this way) I do agree with him that its ridiculous to make base coaches were helmets. There's a greater likelihood of getting killed in the parking lot than by a batted ball. The most vulnerable person on the field is the pitcher and they've done nothing to prevent them from taking a line drive in the coconut. I am somewhat surprised and have wondered for a long time that umps don't where helmets, although several are now wearing the goalie style mask/helment combo.

My prediction is that MLB will relax the helmet rule for coaches before the start of the regular season.

George Anderson
02-29-2008, 11:55 AM
Baseball has been played for what a 100+ years and one coach has died from a batted ball(that I know of anyway). While I disagree with Bowa's approach to the situation (although not a bit surprised that he'd act this way) I do agree with him that its ridiculous to make base coaches were helmets. There's a greater likelihood of getting killed in the parking lot than by a batted ball. The most vulnerable person on the field is the pitcher and they've done nothing to prevent them from taking a line drive in the coconut. I am somewhat surprised and have wondered for a long time that umps don't where helmets, although several are now wearing the goalie style mask/helment combo.

My prediction is that MLB will relax the helmet rule for coaches before the start of the regular season.


I agree, the Coolbaugh thing was a tragedy but it was a freak accident. Just yet another example where societies "Safety Nazis" are taking advantage of one unfortunate incident and imposing rules that will make ultimately make zero difference.

Sea Ray
02-29-2008, 11:56 AM
This is a ridiculous rule on the part of MLB and an overreaction to a tragic happening. Thousands of people die on the interstates every year and we could save those lives if we instituted a 10 MPH speed limit but we don't. We accept some risk in life. Surely folks like Bowa know the risk of getting hit with a batted ball while on the field. He's spent half his life and the baseball field. This rule is absolute nuts IMO.

KoryMac5
02-29-2008, 12:34 PM
I look at it like the law requiring motorcycle helmets, a few riders are against it until something bad happens to them.

fearofpopvol1
02-29-2008, 12:40 PM
I'd say if he's willing to sign a waiver that the team/MLB are not responsible for anything that happens while he is coaching if he is not wearing the helmet like he's supposed to, let him go without it.

Unassisted
02-29-2008, 12:49 PM
I'd say if he's willing to sign a waiver that the team/MLB are not responsible for anything that happens while he is coaching if he is not wearing the helmet like he's supposed to, let him go without it.As I see it, the problem with that notion is the timing. It will look like MLB can't enforce its own rules if Bowa is allowed a pass on this. Considering the Federal scrutiny being given right now to another issue in which MLB may have looked the other way for too long on an issue affecting the sport, I don't believe MLB can afford to let Bowa get away with just "paying a fine" or signing a release. It would just look too weaselly right now.

A smarter approach would have been to phase in this equipment change like the NHL phased in its helmet requirement. I'm sure that in the anguished days following Coolbaugh's death, baseball didn't anticipate any resistance to preventing another tragedy. It's probably too late for a phase-in now.

BCubb2003
02-29-2008, 01:23 PM
I think everyone on the field should wear Bronson Arroyo's geeky two-flap Little League helmet.

SunDeck
02-29-2008, 01:29 PM
What is the real issue, that the coaches are in the line of a foul ball? If so, then aren't a bunch of fans along the baseline in danger, too?

And really, shouldn't they be more worried about these guys?

http://www.cupsuptic.org/images/Ligue.jpg

George Anderson
02-29-2008, 01:37 PM
What is the real issue, that the coaches are in the line of a foul ball? If so, then aren't a bunch of fans along the baseline in danger, too?

And really, shouldn't they be more worried about these guys?

http://www.cupsuptic.org/images/Ligue.jpg

I've heard of and witnessed more people hurt in the stands from foul balls and broken bats than the ONE base coach tragedy.

Maybe if MLB would just mandate that Nerf balls and bats are used we wouldn't have these problems

Hollcat
02-29-2008, 02:01 PM
I'd instruct the umpires to throw him out of the game if he is out there for a pitch without it. My guess is his contract doesn't have a personal comfort guarantee in it.

Sea Ray
02-29-2008, 03:25 PM
I'd say if he's willing to sign a waiver that the team/MLB are not responsible for anything that happens while he is coaching if he is not wearing the helmet like he's supposed to, let him go without it.

No, that's stupid too. Why would he have to sign a waiver in 2008 that he didn't have to sign in 2007? We don't need more waivers and paperwork. Before long us fans will be required to wear helmets as we watch the game.

Reds Nd2
02-29-2008, 04:23 PM
Rules are rules though and I am not advocating that Bowa or any other coach has the authority to undermine the establishmnet.

http://www.akuk.com/images_sm/akcat_2973.jpg

919191
02-29-2008, 06:13 PM
This guy had it worse.

http://www.cactusjuice.com/blog/2006ASU/Fast-Times-At-Ridgemont-High-Brad-Captain-Hook-Uniform.jpg

Team Clark
03-02-2008, 05:01 PM
TC, I think you would agree that the helmets are not that uncomfortable, but I know they are quite hot in the middle of the summer. If it were me, I would probably just suck it up and put the helmet on, but I understand and respect the guys that don't want to wear it.

I agree. Shells are not uncomfortable. They look a little strange compared to a full flap helmet but that is just a style thing. Any type of helmet is hot in the summer. Anyone who has played in some pretty good heat knows that even a plain old baseball hat can be a little toasty. If I were coaching in the bigs I probably would just suck it up and enjoy my per diem. :D

RANDY IN INDY
03-02-2008, 05:14 PM
That per diem would be nice, wouldn't it?

Team Clark
03-02-2008, 05:16 PM
Nothing like getting a nice roll of cash in an envelope so you can "eat"... LOL!

GAC
03-02-2008, 07:23 PM
I predict that Bud makes the decision easier for Bowa. We'll see if Bowa's head is hard enough to lose his job over the lack of a helmet on it.

If his head is that hard then he doesn't need to wear the helmet. ;)

It's obviously a safety and liability issue. If they don't want to wear them, then make them sign some sort of waiver.

We have to wear a plastic bump cap under our ballcaps at Honda. Maybe they could utilize something like that? It sure has saved my noggin a few times over the years. :lol:

remdog
03-03-2008, 08:16 AM
One little noted part of this whole situation with the coaches is that they are now ordered to stay within the coaches box and not stray down the baseline before the ball is put into play. This has more effect on the third base coach than the the first base coach but, overall, coaches have been 'straying' closer to home plate and putting themselves into more jeopardy.

I'm not sure that there are any teeth to this part of the program (i.e., negating a play because the coach was outside the coaches box when the ball was struck) but it's a step in the right direction including protecting coaches from flying bats and foul balls.

Rem

Team Clark
03-03-2008, 09:29 AM
One little noted part of this whole situation with the coaches is that they are now ordered to stay within the coaches box and not stray down the baseline before the ball is put into play. This has more effect on the third base coach than the the first base coach but, overall, coaches have been 'straying' closer to home plate and putting themselves into more jeopardy.

I'm not sure that there are any teeth to this part of the program (i.e., negating a play because the coach was outside the coaches box when the ball was struck) but it's a step in the right direction including protecting coaches from flying bats and foul balls.

Rem

This part I can 100% stand behind. I have seen 2 umpires in the last 15 years put a coach back in the box. One at first and one at third. The one at third was one of the Lacheman brothers (I believe) when McGwire was at the plate. He was standing nearly side by side with the 3B umpire. That's a little obvious.

westofyou
04-02-2008, 10:49 AM
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=394573


Los Angeles Dodgers coach Larry Bowa ejected
April 2, 2008

Associated Press

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Dodgers third base coach Larry Bowa was ejected in the sixth inning of Tuesday night's game against the San Francisco Giants for arguing after he was told to stay within the boundaries of the coaching box.

The Dodgers had two on and two outs in a scoreless game when third base umpire Ed Montague gestured to Bowa. The two came together, the discussion got heated, and Bowa was tossed.

Bowa had to be restrained by manager Joe Torre and bench coach Bob Schaefer before leaving the field. Once in the dugout, the fiery former manager turned over a bucket of Gatorade.

First base coach Mariano Duncan moved to third and hitting coach Mike Easler took over at first.

Major League Baseball announced in late February that starting this year, first- and third-base coaches must not cross the lines toward home plate or the field until batted balls pass them. Only then can they take up other spots to guide runners.

In November, general managers decided big league base coaches must wear protective headgear this year, starting with exhibition games.

Double-A first base coach Mike Coolbaugh was killed by a line drive to the neck last season.

Third-base coaches routinely stand much closer to the plate than the lines permit, trying to get a better look at where outfielders are positioned.

The Dodgers won the game 3-2, but Bowa was still irate 30 minutes later as he left Dodger Stadium, unleashing a profanity-laced tirade regarding the rule.

"I did it all spring, nobody said a word," he said. "I did it yesterday, nobody said a word. It's impossible to coach third and stay in the box with a runner at second."

Schaefer also criticized the rule, but added: "Unfortunately, the umpires are doing what they're told to do."

Montague said it was "probably one of the dumbest ejections he's had.

"We got a memo and an edict, and they're adamant about the box and stuff," the umpire said. "Don't go up in front of the box toward home plate, and don't get any closer to the foul lines. I told Bo in the bottom of the fifth, because he got up close. And that's what caught my eye. And I just told him, 'Bo, you got the memo, we got the memo, and you've got to stay back.' I went over and told Joe in-between innings what I told Bo. And Bo just said, 'I'm going to do it the way I've always been doing it.'

"I said, 'Bo, if you go up, I'm going to have to run you.' And he said, 'Do what you've got to do, and it is what it is.' When he got up in front of it again, I said, 'Bo, I told you once, now get back in the box.' He argued it, and finally I said, 'You're gone.' So I gave him every chance in the book and he defied it."

San Francisco's Rich Aurilia said he wasn't surprised by Bowa's explosion.

"I mean, he made a big stink this spring about wearing the helmet," Aurilia said. "But I could see for four innings that they were arguing over there about something. I didn't know what until that happened. But, hey, they put the rule in for a reason and I guess you've got to abide by it. If not, you're going to be out of there. That's what happened tonight."

Always Red
04-02-2008, 10:52 AM
Larry Bowa is a man who is clearly uncomfortable with change...

Team Clark
04-02-2008, 10:55 AM
I am going to check YouTube for the video. This I gotta see.

VR
04-02-2008, 10:56 AM
This Lincoln quote sums up Bowa for me....

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"

Joseph
04-02-2008, 10:58 AM
I am going to check YouTube for the video. This I gotta see.

It was classic Bowa blowing up.

Chip R
04-02-2008, 11:00 AM
Somebody likes attention.

Joseph
04-02-2008, 11:10 AM
Somebody likes attention.

Yes Chip I do, but this thread is about Larry Bowa, please don't make it about me.

Team Clark
04-02-2008, 11:18 AM
It was classic Bowa blowing up.

WOW!!! He's top 5 for putting on a show.

Highlifeman21
04-02-2008, 11:27 AM
The best part is that Bowa was wearing the batting helmet as he coached 3rd.

So much for him protesting the helmet.

RedsManRick
04-02-2008, 12:29 PM
Something tells me Bowa got ejected not for his position on the field but the fit he threw when asked to observe the rule.

VR
04-02-2008, 12:30 PM
The best part is that Bowa was wearing the batting helmet as he coached 3rd.

So much for him protesting the helmet.


Finally saw it...the best part is Bowa dumping a 10 gallon container of gatorade all over the Dodgers equipment :clap:

westofyou
04-02-2008, 01:17 PM
official mlb.com rules 4.05

(a) The offensive team shall station two base coaches on the field during its term at bat, one near first base and one near third base. (b) Base coaches shall be limited to two in number and shall (1) be in team uniform, and (2) remain within the coach’s box at all times. PENALTY: The offending base coach shall be removed from the game, and shall leave the playing field. Rule 4.05 Comment: It has been common practice for many years for some coaches to put one foot outside the coach’s box or stand astride or otherwise be slightly outside the coaching box lines. The coach shall not be considered out of the box unless the opposing manager complains, and then, the umpire shall strictly enforce the rule and require all coaches (on both teams) to remain in the coach’s box at all times. It is also common practice for a coach who has a play at his base to leave the coach’s box to signal the player to slide, advance or return to a base. This may be allowed if the coach does not interfere with the play in any manner.[1]

Team Clark
04-02-2008, 01:25 PM
official mlb.com rules 4.05
The coach shall not be considered out of the box unless the opposing manager complains, and then, the umpire shall strictly enforce the rule and require all coaches (on both teams) to remain in the coach’s box at all times. [1]

Interesting little caveat to the rule

westofyou
04-02-2008, 01:55 PM
Interesting little caveat to the rule

That's a result of the original ruling (Rule 50) in 1889, the call was more because "coaches" who were actually players then would run up and down the line screaming obscenities at the pitcher as he was delivering the ball.

http://baseballminutia.com/images/50.gif

Chip R
04-02-2008, 02:00 PM
That's a result of the original ruling (Rule 50) in 1889, the call was more because "coaches" who were actually players then would run up and down the line screaming obscenities at the pitcher as he was delivering the ball.

http://baseballminutia.com/images/50.gif


Larry was just born a century too late.

Team Clark
04-02-2008, 02:02 PM
That's a result of the original ruling (Rule 50) in 1889, the call was more because "coaches" who were actually players then would run up and down the line screaming obscenities at the pitcher as he was delivering the ball.

http://baseballminutia.com/images/50.gif

Nice... Thanks for finding that. Pretty good piece of info. :thumbup: I can imagine someone like Cobb doing that.