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View Full Version : Would you take Lohse now for 1 year, $5 MM?



Benihana
03-04-2008, 04:05 PM
Apparently what he's willing to settle for now. I would, and I'd send Affeldt to the pen and let Fogg pitch out of the 5 spot if Volquez isn't ready (although I think he will be.)

If we're out of contention by the deadline (or if the kids are ready to join the roation,) flip him to a contender again for another Maloney. Hell, we could do this every year ;)

Reds1
03-04-2008, 04:11 PM
I know I should say yes. But too much money for me. I'd give him 1-2 million like Fogg. not 5MM.

fearofpopvol1
03-04-2008, 04:32 PM
I think this would've made more sense if that Reds hadn't signed Fogg. Since they did, it doesn't make sense.

edabbs44
03-04-2008, 04:37 PM
If their new goal is to pick up as many spare parts as possible, then I guess so.

I'd rather sign another 2.5 Juan Durans.

klw
03-04-2008, 04:40 PM
yes if we can turn him in July for another Maloney

RANDY IN INDY
03-04-2008, 04:47 PM
yes if we can turn him in July for another Maloney

Not a bad thought.

Highlifeman21
03-04-2008, 04:54 PM
I would absolutely take him for $5,000,000.00.

He's a better BOR solution than Fogg or Bailey or Cueto or Maloney at this point.

Do Bailey and Cueto (and possibly Maloney) have more upside than Lohse? You betcha.

Do Bailey, Cueto and Maloney need more time in AAA? You betcha.

Therefore, 5 big ones is chump change is it allows us to properly harvest our crop of youngsters. Properly harvesting youngsters seems to be a foreign concept around these parts, so perhaps we'd continue to look at that 5 mil for Lohse as money ill-spent.

marcshoe
03-04-2008, 04:58 PM
I voted yes, but....only if this means Fogg is dumped.

And honestly, I'm not sure anymore. Ask again later, after we get a better idea of how the kids are doing.

edabbs44
03-04-2008, 04:58 PM
yes if we can turn him in July for another Maloney

So you'd pay $3MM for Maloney if he was available for a price?

PuffyPig
03-04-2008, 04:59 PM
Lohse in the #3 spot makes our rotation that much stronger, bumping everyone down one.

It would give us, at worst, a league average rotation, as Harang would be clearly above average, Arroyo likely above average, Lohse average, Belise average to below average, and hopefully our #5 close to average.

KronoRed
03-04-2008, 05:23 PM
No thanks.

WMR
03-04-2008, 05:27 PM
Hell yes I would.

BRM
03-04-2008, 05:28 PM
No thanks.

C'mon Krono. You'd be able to wear your prized Kyle Lohse jersey again.

Heath
03-04-2008, 06:00 PM
Minor League Deal.

Highlifeman21
03-04-2008, 06:01 PM
C'mon Krono. You'd be able to wear your prized Kyle Lohse jersey again.

He'd first have to remove it from the shadow-box frame in the Kyle Lohse shrine in his house.

MikeS21
03-04-2008, 06:01 PM
Which Kyle Lohse are we paying for? Good Kyle ... or "What's a baseball?" Kyle?

KronoRed
03-04-2008, 06:14 PM
He'd first have to remove it from the shadow-box frame in the Kyle Lohse shrine in his house.

I told you to knock next time! :angry:

Chip R
03-04-2008, 06:18 PM
Which Kyle Lohse are we paying for? Good Kyle ... or "What's a baseball?" Kyle?


Both. It's a package deal.

I'd rather have signed him than Fogg - even at $5M. But it sounds to me like he wore out his welcome here.

M2
03-04-2008, 06:28 PM
I won't debate that Fogg or Affeldt are better than Lohse, but it would seem to me that they've already got that $5M.

The placeholders have been selected, for better or worse. Might as well save the treasure in case there's someone available at midseason and the team is in the hunt.

Sea Ray
03-04-2008, 06:30 PM
Kyle Loshe is in no position to dictate to any team what he's worth. The question at this point is "Kyle, do you want to play in 2008? Here, take it or leave it."

I voted no but I would generously give him a mill but if he screws around another week I start dropping my offer.

Highlifeman21
03-04-2008, 06:33 PM
I told you to knock next time! :angry:

I was going voyeur on you with my binoculars.

gm
03-04-2008, 07:43 PM
it sounds to me like he wore out his welcome here.

I'm getting a mental image of Dick Pole holding a crucifix, like he's trying to ward off a vampire

dougdirt
03-04-2008, 07:45 PM
Absolutely.

RedsManRick
03-04-2008, 07:49 PM
Assuming it doesn't come out of our draft budget, I don't see why not. He pitched in two of the friendliest pitcher's parks in baseball last year and was league average in both. A 1 year deal for a league average starter, which likely means a decent trade (again) or free draft pick? Sign me up. I'd certainly prefer in the rotation over Affeldt or Fogg.

FWIW, PECOTA has him at worth $4.45M in 2008.

Falls City Beer
03-04-2008, 08:19 PM
All this thread reaffirms for me is: 1. the Reds don't have the pitching depth that some had initially speculated they had in the persons of Bailey, Volquez, etc, and 2. the Reds should have gotten a real starter this offseason.

dougdirt
03-04-2008, 08:21 PM
All this thread reaffirms for me is: 1. the Reds don't have the pitching depth that some had initially speculated they had in the persons of Bailey, Volquez, etc, and 2. the Reds should have gotten a real starter this offseason.

I just want as much good pitching as possible. Kyle Lohse is quite inconsistent, but when he is on his game can absolutely dominate.

edabbs44
03-04-2008, 08:24 PM
All this thread reaffirms for me is: 1. the Reds don't have the pitching depth that some had initially speculated they had in the persons of Bailey, Volquez, etc, and 2. the Reds should have gotten a real starter this offseason.

What it reaffirms to me is that this year is gonna be a disappointment. Wayne got his multi-million dollar closer. No excuses this year.

If this bullpen has an ERA over 4.00 he should be ashamed.

WMR
03-04-2008, 08:26 PM
I'm not going to judge this bullpen by ERA, I'm going to judge it by who is on the roster.

Do we go with the youngsters with upside a la Roenicke or do we go with crappy senior citizens a la Mike Stanton just b/c they have a guaranteed contract and are "Proven" (haha).

Falls City Beer
03-04-2008, 08:31 PM
I just want as much good pitching as possible. Kyle Lohse is quite inconsistent, but when he is on his game can absolutely dominate.

The point is that instead of scrounging around for the leftovers, the Reds should have paid the price and stabilized the rotation. Lord, I'd say I sound like a broken record sometimes if I weren't right so damn often.

WMR
03-04-2008, 08:32 PM
The point is that instead of scrounging around for the leftovers, the Reds should have paid the price and stabilized the rotation. Lord, I'd say I sound like a broken record sometimes if I weren't right so damn often.

You can be right and still sound like a broken record. ;)

dougdirt
03-04-2008, 08:33 PM
The point is that instead of scrounging around for the leftovers, the Reds should have paid the price and stabilized the rotation. Lord, I'd say I sound like a broken record sometimes if I weren't right so damn often.

While Kyle Lohse may be a 'leftover' he doesn't really fit the description of most 'leftovers'. This type of move wouldn't be like signing Joe Mays or Eric Milton.

Falls City Beer
03-04-2008, 08:34 PM
While Kyle Lohse may be a 'leftover' he doesn't really fit the description of most 'leftovers'. This type of move wouldn't be like signing Joe Mays or Eric Milton.

You're right, Mays was cheap.

dougdirt
03-04-2008, 08:37 PM
You're right, Mays was cheap.

Cheap and terrible < Moderately priced and average with blips of dominance.

WMR
03-04-2008, 08:40 PM
You're right, Mays was cheap.

You're not trying to compare the production of Joe Mays versus Kyle Lohse, I hope?

Kyle Lohse would be a serviceable #3 pitcher for MANY major league ball clubs.

Falls City Beer
03-04-2008, 08:45 PM
You're not trying to compare the production of Joe Mays versus Kyle Lohse, I hope?

Kyle Lohse would be a serviceable #3 pitcher for MANY major league ball clubs.

No, it's a joke. But the larger point is they punted on the top flight guys. However, I fail to see how now going after the 10th or 15th best option is the answer.

WMR
03-04-2008, 08:46 PM
No, it's a joke. But the larger point is they punted on the top flight guys. However, I fail to see how now going after the 10th or 15th best option is the answer.

Did they punt or just refuse to be fleeced?

WMR
03-04-2008, 08:48 PM
The way I see it, a Kyle Lohse could make the difference in the mediocre NL Central this year while giving the Reds the ability to allow the youngsters another year to percolate in AAA. Winning the division--even a crappy division--would be a nice change of pace.

UKFlounder
03-04-2008, 08:51 PM
Kyle Lohse would be a serviceable #3 pitcher for MANY major league ball clubs.

Yeah - just look at all the interest so many have showed him this offseason.

Falls City Beer
03-04-2008, 08:52 PM
Did they punt or just refuse to be fleeced?

They didn't get what they needed when the market for what they needed and what they had to trade were both favorable. I'll leave the rest of the judgment up to you.

WMR
03-04-2008, 08:53 PM
Yeah - just look at all the interest so many have showed him this offseason.

Look at the slimeball representing him. I don't blame teams balking at what Boras was demanding. Doesn't mean he's not a valuable potential cog in a rotation.

dougdirt
03-04-2008, 09:00 PM
No, it's a joke. But the larger point is they punted on the top flight guys. However, I fail to see how now going after the 10th or 15th best option is the answer.

10 to 15 better starting pitchers on the market than Kyle Lohse? I would love to see that list.

Falls City Beer
03-04-2008, 09:16 PM
10 to 15 better starting pitchers on the market than Kyle Lohse? I would love to see that list.

It's not likely, but it's possible that Fogg puts up numbers similar to Lohse's numbers this season.

fearofpopvol1
03-04-2008, 09:51 PM
No, it's a joke. But the larger point is they punted on the top flight guys. However, I fail to see how now going after the 10th or 15th best option is the answer.

Yeah, I'm pretty much going to have to say there is absolutely no way there were 15 better options and not even 10. Probably not 5.

Now, that's not to say that Kyle Lohse is a great pitcher (because he has many problems), but there were probably 2-3 better starting pitcher options that existed as free agents this offseason.

Falls City Beer
03-04-2008, 09:52 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty much going to have to say there is absolutely no way there were 15 better options and not even 10. Probably not 5.

Now, that's not to say that Kyle Lohse is a great pitcher (because he has many problems), but there were probably 2-3 better starting pitcher options that existed as free agents this offseason.

I didn't realize the Reds could only choose from FA. Silly me.

dougdirt
03-04-2008, 09:58 PM
I didn't realize the Reds could only choose from FA. Silly me.

I wasn't counting free agents only, but I still don't think there were 10 better options. 5, sure if you are going to ignore what it would cost to acquire them.

klw
03-04-2008, 10:13 PM
So you'd pay $3MM for Maloney if he was available for a price?

I doubt it. But for half a season of league average pitching and Maloney I would certainly consider it. Problem is that Lohse in the rotation probably doesn't put the Reds over the top this year unless this is the mystical year in which he harnesses his promise and is consistent. It is more likely that Cueto can do that this year than Lohse. Putting Lohse in the rotation, thinking he can help trasition for half a season until one of the 4 is more ready for the rotation spot may make sense with an eye to moving Lohse to a contender or to a set up role come end of July.

sonny
03-04-2008, 10:24 PM
5 milllion for that kind of inconsistency? Pass.

fearofpopvol1
03-04-2008, 10:42 PM
I didn't realize the Reds could only choose from FA. Silly me.

I think Doug took the words out of my mouth.

Even if you consider the realistic options, there certainly wern't 10 of them.

Falls City Beer
03-04-2008, 10:48 PM
I think Doug took the words out of my mouth.

Even if you consider the realistic options, there certainly wern't 10 of them.

So you would batten on this moor?

It's just a constant cycle of settling for things they shouldn't be settling for (starters) and going full throttle on things they probably could have settled for (closer).

BuckeyeRedleg
03-04-2008, 11:25 PM
Hell yes I would.

Ditto.

Jpup
03-05-2008, 01:50 AM
So you would batten on this moor?

It's just a constant cycle of settling for things they shouldn't be settling for (starters) and going full throttle on things they probably could have settled for (closer).

weren't you all about getting Volquez?

BRM
03-05-2008, 10:21 AM
MLBTradeRumors says reports are that he'd take $4M.



Kyle Lohse for one year and $4MM doesn't sound too bad, does it? Not to the Phillies, even with Adam Eaton and a couple of Durbins battling it out for the fifth starter job. Phils assistant GM Mike Arbuckle said "I know we're not interested" in Lohse at such a price.

I don't get this. Pretty much every team in the NL should be looking at Lohse if he's really willing to take $4MM. Even non-contenders have to consider the ol' sign and flip with him. Even this year, with teams showing relatively more common sense with free agents, $2-3MM deals have been tossed around on roster filler type players. The standard rate for a sixth-inning middle reliever is three mil now. The only explanation I can think of is that the reports are wrong, and Lohse is still trying to get $6-8MM.


This blog (http://www.delawareonline.com/blogs/2008/03/mar-4-day-20-forget-about-lohse.html) claims Lohse rejected a 3 year, $21M offer from Philadelphia earlier in the offseason.

Chip R
03-05-2008, 10:24 AM
Kyle Lohse for one year and $4MM doesn't sound too bad, does it? Not to the Phillies, even with Adam Eaton and a couple of Durbins battling it out for the fifth starter job. Phils assistant GM Mike Arbuckle said "I know we're not interested" in Lohse at such a price.

I don't get this. Pretty much every team in the NL should be looking at Lohse if he's really willing to take $4MM. Even non-contenders have to consider the ol' sign and flip with him. Even this year, with teams showing relatively more common sense with free agents, $2-3MM deals have been tossed around on roster filler type players. The standard rate for a sixth-inning middle reliever is three mil now. The only explanation I can think of is that the reports are wrong, and Lohse is still trying to get $6-8MM.

Lohse must have an awful personality if no one's signed him yet.

membengal
03-05-2008, 10:38 AM
Yeah. It must be positively bailey-esque (please insert appropriate sarcasm there).

flyer85
03-05-2008, 10:38 AM
Lohse must have an awful personality if no one's signed him yet.nah ... just an agent named Boras who overplayed his hand.

Chip R
03-05-2008, 11:00 AM
nah ... just an agent named Boras who overplayed his hand.


I think it's more than that. lots of guys have Boras as their agent and they haven't had any problems getting contracts.

flyer85
03-05-2008, 11:38 AM
I think it's more than that. lots of guys have Boras as their agent and they haven't had any problems getting contracts.he has had some clients go on one year deals in recent years ... Weaver(twice). The reason for that is that you may still be able to get the same money on a series of one year deals. However, it seems as if the market did change a bit this off-season and if Lohse turned down a 3 yr 21M dollar deal it seems unlikely he is going to get to the $21M mark on a series of one year deals.

Chip R
03-05-2008, 12:48 PM
he has had some clients go on one year deals in recent years ... Weaver(twice). The reason for that is that you may still be able to get the same money on a series of one year deals. However, it seems as if the market did change a bit this off-season and if Lohse turned down a 3 yr 21M dollar deal it seems unlikely he is going to get to the $21M mark on a series of one year deals.


True but Lohse/Boras has evidently lowered his/their asking price. A moron would know Lohse isn't going to get $7M per from anyone now. It doesn't do any good to Boras to keep Lohse from signing with someone at this point since if Lohse doesn't get paid, Boras doesn't either. As I said, I'd much rather have the Jeckyll & Hyde routine of Lohse than the consistent sub-mediocrity of Josh Fogg. I can't be the only person who feels like that even at $4M.

Screwball
03-05-2008, 12:55 PM
As I said, I'd much rather have the Jeckyll & Hyde routine of Lohse than the consistent sub-mediocrity of Josh Fogg. I can't be the only person who feels like that even at $4M.

You're not. I'd do it as well for all of the aforementioned reasons. Although, after spending relatively big in FA, and not to mention just dropping $2 mill on Juan Duran, I'm not sure just how much is left before the Reds go over budget.

Spring~Fields
03-05-2008, 12:59 PM
I'd ask Lohse if he wants to pitch relief at a hefty 1 million a year, while hinting to him that he might go unemployed this year. ;)

SunDeck
03-05-2008, 01:03 PM
I just want as much good pitching as possible. Kyle Lohse is quite inconsistent, but when he is on his game can absolutely dominate.

It'd be great if you could just find that out during the pre-game warm up.

Since the Reds have already had a pretty good up close and personal look at the good, the bad and the ugly that is Kyle Lohse, I am willing to accept a decision to take a pass on him or to bring him in. So, at the risk of being ridiculed (get in line), I am suggesting that we should trust their judgment on this call.

BTW- 5mil does not appear to be chump change to me, but that just reflects my age and my curmudgeon nature, I guess.

dougdirt
03-05-2008, 01:55 PM
It'd be great if you could just find that out during the pre-game warm up.

Since the Reds have already had a pretty good up close and personal look at the good, the bad and the ugly that is Kyle Lohse, I am willing to accept a decision to take a pass on him or to bring him in. So, at the risk of being ridiculed (get in line), I am suggesting that we should trust their judgment on this call.

BTW- 5mil does not appear to be chump change to me, but that just reflects my age and my curmudgeon nature, I guess.

I certainly have no problem with them saying no to him. I get it. I just would be asking Bob for the money if I were running the team.

marcshoe
03-05-2008, 05:03 PM
Man, this is better than the Texas primary!

Highlifeman21
03-05-2008, 06:18 PM
I maintain, and may be completely crazy for such a thought, that Kyle Lohse's future is as a......

closer.


I don't see him as a starter, except as a BOR type guy. And I don't see Boras letting Lohse settle for being a long relief or middle relief guy. But a closer? If Lohse could ever get his head on straight, I think he could make a hell of a closer.

Always Red
03-05-2008, 06:30 PM
I maintain, and may be completely crazy for such a thought, that Kyle Lohse's future is as a......

closer.


I don't see him as a starter, except as a BOR type guy. And I don't see Boras letting Lohse settle for being a long relief or middle relief guy. But a closer? If Lohse could ever get his head on straight, I think he could make a hell of a closer.

I agree, and have been saying that since he came to the Reds.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1156947&postcount=2


Only problem is that he tends to crump under pressure.

But he's got the arm, he's got the stuff, and he's just Randy-Myers-crazy-enough to make it work. He just needs to learn to embrace the pressure.

Yep, I'd take him for 5 mill/ 1 year.