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View Full Version : Cueto should be in the rotation!



gobucks106
03-07-2008, 02:57 PM
Trent's blog says he's been down right nasty today. Can we please pencil this guy in the rotation. I'd go Harang, Arroyo, Belisle unles he just pitches horrible the rest of the sring, Affeldt he's a left and signed him to start and has done well so far, and then Cueto. Bailey starts in Louisville until he fixes his attitude and fine tunes his curveball. Volquez starts in the pen. Cut bait with Fogg, if someone in the rotation falters then you got both Volquez and Bailey. Maybe Maloney turns it around at Louisvile, he's been hit hard this spring. I see Bray starting in Louisville along with Countlangus, Stanton and or Merker make the team to give us lefties in the pen. Along with a rebound year from Coffey, Burton, Cordero. Making up a pretty good staff. I say Roenicke pitches in the big leagues before it's all said and done. Again I say you got to let Cueto start and go north. You take the best 25 north with you. That includes Jay Bruce. That's another whole post. Don't get me started on what I think about him starting at Louisville.

AdamDunn
03-07-2008, 03:12 PM
realize that Dusty won't let that happen.

Things that Dusty should do but won't:
1) Let the younger players who are the future of this franchise play in the big leagues
2) Keep the young arms pitch count low
3) Allow players to take a pitch with two strikes
4) Be a good manager

The only way Bruce and/or Cueto start in the big leagues this year is if Dusty gets struck by lightning.

mlbfan30
03-07-2008, 03:12 PM
There is no way Affeldt should be in the rotation. What makes you think he should?

As Starter....
Is it his career 5.15 IP/GS with a 5.41 ERA? Or his 1.32 K/BB ratio? Or batting line against of .298 AVG .372 OBP .455 SLG .827 OPS? Or his 1.0 HR/9 IP?

As Reliever....
4.21 ERA. 1.72 K/BB ratio. .244 AVG .328 OBP .379 SLG .707 OPS against. 0.70 HR/9IP.

I'm thinking he needs to start, right? We need his AVERAGE 3ER 5IP start in the 4th spot. That's not going to hurt the bullpen. We have plenty of LH RP in the bullpen we could trust. Guys like Stanton/ Mercker/ and the forever injured Bray are all the LHP we need.

It's not like we have a plethora of SP to replace Affeldt. Fogg should be cut even though all his stats are better. Volquez in AAA. Maloney in AAA. Bailey in AA. We NEED Affeldt in the rotation because that's obviously where he's historically been best.

luvdozer
03-07-2008, 04:20 PM
realize that Dusty won't let that happen.

Things that Dusty should do but won't:
1) Let the younger players who are the future of this franchise play in the big leagues
2) Keep the young arms pitch count low
3) Allow players to take a pitch with two strikes
4) Be a good manager

The only way Bruce and/or Cueto start in the big leagues this year is if Dusty gets struck by lightning.

Can someone please give dusty a long metal pole to hold onto during a thunderstorm?

captainmorgan07
03-07-2008, 05:36 PM
I agree cueto should be in the rotation if he continues to pitch like he has this spring. Bailey has been improving along with Volquez. Fogg has pitched well this spring. Having depth is not necessarily a bad thing. Affedlt will go to the pen i presume and be our best lefty outta the pen this season.

Stephenk29
03-07-2008, 05:40 PM
today's line.

3 IP 4Ks 0H 0ER

I'm becoming more convinced.

jmac
03-07-2008, 07:17 PM
I am not opposed at all to Cueto being in the rotation.That is even assuming he "will" get rocked at some point this spring.
I feel he has the makeup to pick up right where he left off in the next start.

SMcGavin
03-07-2008, 08:55 PM
Cueto's hot start is making the Fogg signing look kind of unnecessary. I'm fine with Fogg as depth but if Cueto keeps this up all spring and then goes to AAA because of Fogg, I won't be too happy. It is nice to have legitimate options at the back of the rotation though, seems like a quite a change from years past.

BearcatShane
03-07-2008, 09:07 PM
Dusty Baker wants Cueto in the rotation to start the year. And as long as Cueto pitches well the rest of the spring, there's a very good chance he will be.

Jerry Narron
03-07-2008, 09:21 PM
As I said in another thread the Reds are in for a long season if the 3,4, and 5 spots consist of Belisle, Affeldt, and Fogg.

jmac
03-07-2008, 09:25 PM
Dusty Baker wants Cueto in the rotation to start the year.

I am beginning to think this as well.

topsyt
03-07-2008, 09:31 PM
I thought Mr. C said take the best 25 and forget the $. Me thinks this spring has been the most interesting in a long while and still with a ways to go.

AmarilloRed
03-08-2008, 01:52 AM
Cueto does have only 22 innings at AAA, but a strong spring training and he could be in the rotation.

mound_patrol
03-08-2008, 12:14 PM
Can we please remember that this is one outing, a 3 inning outing. While I'd love to see him make our rotation, I'm not going to get overly excited with one outing in early March.

gedred69
03-08-2008, 12:42 PM
Can we please remember that this is one outing, a 3 inning outing. While I'd love to see him make our rotation, I'm not going to get overly excited with one outing in early March.

Excellent way to put it. I will be down there 14th thru the 20th, which is the time when the regulars are really busting to get in season form. I hope to see the early top performers (such as Cueto, Rosales, etc.) against the best working to get to the top of their game. That's when we'll see who's really ready for the Big Leagues..

TheBigLebowski
03-08-2008, 12:59 PM
Cueto will NOT be in the rotation. No way.

Simms11
03-08-2008, 02:29 PM
Cueto will NOT be in the rotation. No way.

Are you just speculating or do you have facts...?

jmac
03-08-2008, 02:44 PM
Cueto does have only 22 innings at AAA,

True but this quote seems like Dusty might not let that influence him.
"I've seen a number of pitchers come through Double-A and spend very little time at Triple-A," Baker said. "Talking to a lot of scouts, they said Double-A might be a better competitive league than Triple-A. And he throws strikes. If you throw strikes with good stuff and if you can get your off-speed stuff over, you have a chance to win. Every time he gets hit a little bit, he's got another gear."

GoReds33
03-08-2008, 02:48 PM
True but this quote seems like Dusty might not let that influence him.
"I've seen a number of pitchers come through Double-A and spend very little time at Triple-A," Baker said. "Talking to a lot of scouts, they said Double-A might be a better competitive league than Triple-A. And he throws strikes. If you throw strikes with good stuff and if you can get your off-speed stuff over, you have a chance to win. Every time he gets hit a little bit, he's got another gear."

That's always been my feeling aswell. I don't think AAA is that big of a deal if you can dominate AA. I hope to see him make the rotation.

jmac
03-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Can we please remember that this is one outing, a 3 inning outing. While I'd love to see him make our rotation, I'm not going to get overly excited with one outing in early March.

No one is actually crowning him the next Pedro.
It also isnt one outing or two for that matter that excites me as far as Cueto.
It is the potential based on his minor league #'s plus guys like Soto and other offering their opinion of if he is ready or not. Also myself, I think Cueto could put up better #'s than everyone in rotation with exception of Harang/Arroyo.

mlbfan30
03-08-2008, 02:57 PM
Isn't it great how Dusty loves Cueto because he's dominating right now?
Isn't it great how Dusty hates Bruce because he's dominating right now?

Isn't it great how Dusty doesn't care Cueto is 21 and played little above AA?
Isn't it great how Dusty cares that Bruce is 21 and played little above AA?

Isn't it great how Dusty says Cueto's size doesn't matter but is stuff does?
Isn't it great how Dusty says Bruce's is not a typical "CF" but has [high production]?

mlbfan30
03-08-2008, 03:02 PM
No one is actually crowning him the next Pedro.
It also isnt one outing or two for that matter that excites me as far as Cueto.
It is the potential based on his minor league #'s plus guys like Soto and other offering their opinion of if he is ready or not. Also myself, I think Cueto could put up better #'s than everyone in rotation with exception of Harang/Arroyo.

I think Cueto could be better than Arroyo this year. Cueto will put up numbers like Gallardo put up last year, which I've said before. How about a Mussina comp in terms of stuff?

jmac
03-08-2008, 03:13 PM
I think Cueto could be better than Arroyo this year. Cueto will put up numbers like Gallardo put up last year, which I've said before. How about a Mussina comp in terms of stuff?

Arroyo, I'm not so sure but Belisle, Affeldt (if he starts), and Fogg for sure.
He might not but it wouldnt surprise if he did.

RED59
03-09-2008, 01:53 PM
I know low class A performance does not project well to the majors, but Cueto was the best starter I have seen at Dayton. I have seen both he and Bailey. I watched Bailey throw his 95 mile an hour fastball and the opposing hitters would tee off on him. Cueto had command of his pitches and he made Class A hitters look like Class A hitters.

bubbachunk
03-09-2008, 02:40 PM
I just fear how he will be handled if he does make the rotation. I would hope that Wayne and Walt would lay down the law as far as pitch count is concerned but i do not have great confidence is Dusty.

GoReds33
03-09-2008, 03:12 PM
I know low class A performance does not project well to the majors, but Cueto was the best starter I have seen at Dayton. I have seen both he and Bailey. I watched Bailey throw his 95 mile an hour fastball and the opposing hitters would tee off on him. Cueto had command of his pitches and he made Class A hitters look like Class A hitters.I've heard that scouts think Bailey's fastball is more of a straight pitch than Cueto's. I hope that's true, because if Cueto can throw 93-94 with movement we have an excellent starter on our hands.

gedred69
03-09-2008, 06:48 PM
The only thing that worries me about Cueto, is----just hearsay, he has a tendancy to become overly emotional. I would rather him have the emotions of Pedro, than see him become another Zambrano, who should be one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in all of Baseball, except his temperment keeps him out of that class. Let Cueto mature into an adult like Pedro, instead of a brat goofball like Zambrano. Dusty should know this better than anybody. (Tell me Zambrano didn't piss Dusty off when he managed him).

mlbfan30
03-09-2008, 07:22 PM
The only thing that worries me about Cueto, is----just hearsay, he has a tendancy to become overly emotional. I would rather him have the emotions of Pedro, than see him become another Zambrano, who should be one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in all of Baseball, except his temperment keeps him out of that class. Let Cueto mature into an adult like Pedro, instead of a brat goofball like Zambrano. Dusty should know this better than anybody. (Tell me Zambrano didn't piss Dusty off when he managed him).

Heresay from what? Another poster?

I've been following Cueto since 2004 when he was signed. I've NEVER heard negative things about him being overly emotional. You are making this up with no links or quotes to prove it. What's been said is that he's a very good "pitcher" in that he controls his game; such as not going all out on normal fastballs and will rise to the next level to get that important SO when needed. I hear about his amazing competitiveness and desire to be great (maybe that's the emotion). Cueto is the perfect pitcher from an emotional standpoint because he understands the game. He's always succeeded at every level with consistent K/BB rates.

Here's the quote "“He impressed me, very much so,” Sweet said. “He has very good stuff, and he has command of it. He’s young, so he gets a little emotional."

Lets ignore "impressed/very good stuff/command" and go right to "emotion"

Then let's also include "overly" and make it seem like it's bad, because we all know that....

Emotion = Zambrano

Emotion is a bad word, it's means like "an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and volitional states of consciousness. " If it meant that, I'd want all my pitchers to have no emotions. Who wants them to actually care whether winning or losing? Who wants them to care about getting better and improving? Why should they care about baseball? I definetly want a pitcher with no emotions. It's not like emotions are what drive athletes to success. That's crazy.

gedred69
03-09-2008, 08:01 PM
Heresay from what? Another poster?

I've been following Cueto since 2004 when he was signed. I've NEVER heard negative things about him being overly emotional. You are making this up with no links or quotes to prove it. What's been said is that he's a very good "pitcher" in that he controls his game; such as not going all out on normal fastballs and will rise to the next level to get that important SO when needed. I hear about his amazing competitiveness and desire to be great (maybe that's the emotion). Cueto is the perfect pitcher from an emotional standpoint because he understands the game. He's always succeeded at every level with consistent K/BB rates.

Here's the quote "“He impressed me, very much so,” Sweet said. “He has very good stuff, and he has command of it. He’s young, so he gets a little emotional."

Lets ignore "impressed/very good stuff/command" and go right to "emotion"

Then let's also include "overly" and make it seem like it's bad, because we all know that....

Emotion = Zambrano

Emotion is a bad word, it's means like "an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and volitional states of consciousness. " If it meant that, I'd want all my pitchers to have no emotions. Who wants them to actually care whether winning or losing? Who wants them to care about getting better and improving? Why should they care about baseball? I definetly want a pitcher with no emotions. It's not like emotions are what drive athletes to success. That's crazy.

read the reporters, pay attention, don't attack. Spare me the etheral definitions as to what emotions are. read what I said thouroughly, you should see that I said they can be positive,--- or they can eat someone up and keep them from being "all that they can be".

AmarilloRed
03-09-2008, 10:27 PM
The only thing that worries me about Cueto, is----just hearsay, he has a tendancy to become overly emotional. I would rather him have the emotions of Pedro, than see him become another Zambrano, who should be one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in all of Baseball, except his temperment keeps him out of that class. Let Cueto mature into an adult like Pedro, instead of a brat goofball like Zambrano. Dusty should know this better than anybody. (Tell me Zambrano didn't piss Dusty off when he managed him).

This is the first any of us have heard about it. We would appreciate it if you could gives us an example of which reporter has said this, and we could determine for ourselves to what extent this could be true.

BLEEDS
03-10-2008, 02:01 PM
realize that Dusty won't let that happen.

Things that Dusty should do but won't:
1) Let the younger players who are the future of this franchise play in the big leagues
2) Keep the young arms pitch count low
3) Allow players to take a pitch with two strikes
4) Be a good manager


Given 2, you'd think we'd NOT want to have 1...

I think IFF Cueto makes the rotation, he should be the #5 guy.

I know he's doing well now, but he threw A LOT of innings last year between the minors and winter ball.

The last thing we want is for him to wear his arm out. I can only see the Baker-bashing if/when that happened...

My Rotation:
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle (by default)
Affeldt
Volquez

Homer AND Cueto should start the year in AAA, IMO. Cueto should be shut-down after AAA season. Homer can get another cup of coffee in September.

IFF they dominate AAA enough to beat down the door - AND/OR Belisle/Fogg/Affeldt/Volquez aren't getting the job done, THEN they can come up and start a game or two.

Volquez is old/mature enough (arm-wise) to handle whole season in the Bigs. I wouldn't push it with Homer/Cueto. They will more than likely get their spot-starts during the year anyway. I'd rather save them Arb timeclock, and shoot for next year for those guys.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Va Red Fan
03-10-2008, 02:52 PM
I would love to see Cueto in the rotation, but I really doubt that will happen. The logical rotation out of the gate, at least from my perspective is -

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Volquez

Harang and Arroyo are both proven major league talents. Belisle is on the right path, if he continues from the base he built last year. Fogg is also a proven talent and is quite frankly a typical #4 starter. Volquez is the most established of the young guns and would be the logical one to slide into the rotation. He still has much to prove, but we will see. Affeldt has not shown he can do it as a starter, but he is solid in the pen. Bailey and Cueto will likely keep AAA hopping. Maloney has a future, but its not now.

Now, we wait and see.

ChatterRed
03-10-2008, 06:25 PM
I heard Cueto and Votto will be traded for Dan Haren right before the start of the season.

;)


JUST KIDDING!!!!

captainmorgan07
03-10-2008, 08:58 PM
Looking more like his chances are better than homers right now. Bailey needs a few months in louisville to work on his command. It comes and goes to much.

jmac
03-12-2008, 09:51 PM
Another good job by Cueto tonight against the philly front line guys.:thumbup:

BearcatShane
03-12-2008, 10:01 PM
If he pitches well in his next apperance, I think he's got the rotation made. If he doesn't all ready.

jmac
03-12-2008, 10:26 PM
If he pitches well in his next apperance, I think he's got the rotation made. If he doesn't all ready.

Actually, after Cueto, who has impressed other than Volquez ?
Not speaking of Harang/Arroyo because their spots are inked.
Belisle hasnt looked very impressive. Affeldt or Fogg havent done anything special.
So based on performance, right now Cueto would be #3.

Redsfanao
03-12-2008, 11:26 PM
This From Hal McCoy's Blog:

Cueto the Reds’ ace?

By Hal McCoy |

This one stunned even me — because I’ve been covering this team for 36 years and I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything this strong from a scout.

A scout who once pitched successfully in the major leagues and whose opinion I trust implicitly, has seen young Johnny Cueto pitch every time he has pitched this spring. BEFORE Cueto’s appearance Wednesday night against the Phillies this scout said:

“Cueto is that team’s ace. Right now.”

Yikes. Pretty strong stuff, huh?

Then Cueto pitched the last four innings of a 6-1 win over the Phillies, and even when he is less than glamorous he is pretty cute.

With a new shaved head, Cueto hit the first batter he faced and gave up a bloop single to the second hitter he faced. Then he got a double play and a pop-up.

Then he pitched a 1-2-3 inning with two punchouts and when his night was over his line was: 4 innings, 0 runs, 1 hit, 1 walk, 1 hit batsman, two strikeouts. And this didn’t come against a Phill-in Phillies team. It was the big boys — Ryan Howard, Pat Burrell, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins, Geoff Jenkins — everybody but Richie Allen and Richie Ashburn.

The kid has style and pizz-zazz and is confident enough in himself to shave off his straggly hair when he was doing good and risking a dose of bad luck from the Superstitious Gods.

“He ain’t Samson,” said manager Dusty Baker. You could have fooled the Phillies, who took some swings that looked like Delilah twirling a broom. He threw 49 pitches, 33 for strikes.

BLEEDS
03-13-2008, 10:24 AM
Yep. Looking more and more like they can't keep Cueto out of the rotation.

Cueto and Volquez, team with Harang and Arroyo. The last spot is between Belisle/Fogg/Affeldt.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

bounty37h
03-13-2008, 11:32 AM
Isn't it great how Dusty loves Cueto because he's dominating right now?
Isn't it great how Dusty hates Bruce because he's dominating right now?

Isn't it great how Dusty doesn't care Cueto is 21 and played little above AA?
Isn't it great how Dusty cares that Bruce is 21 and played little above AA?

Isn't it great how Dusty says Cueto's size doesn't matter but is stuff does?
Isn't it great how Dusty says Bruce's is not a typical "CF" but has [high production]?

Isnt it great Reds fans have whined and labeled Dusty as a loser when he hasnt even managed a regular season game yet??

bubbachunk
03-13-2008, 12:10 PM
Put him in give me something exciting to watch!!!

AmarilloRed
03-13-2008, 02:28 PM
Yep. Looking more and more like they can't keep Cueto out of the rotation.

Cueto and Volquez, team with Harang and Arroyo. The last spot is between Belisle/Fogg/Affeldt.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I doubt Homer Bailey has conceded his spot in the rotation just yet. As none of the others besides Volquez and Cueto has impressed, a couple of strong starts by Bailey (OR Belisle/Fogg/Affeldt), and he would be the fifth starter.

BLEEDS
03-13-2008, 02:45 PM
I doubt Homer Bailey has conceded his spot in the rotation just yet. As none of the others besides Volquez and Cueto has impressed, a couple of strong starts by Bailey (OR Belisle/Fogg/Affeldt), and he would be the fifth starter.

If I had to make a wager today, I'd say Homer is 99% headed to AAA to start the season. He'll have to have a couple Cueto-like starts/innings to get in at this point.

I'd also have to give it to Belisle, probably taking the #4 spot in the rotation. I don't think he can do much harm there, even putting up a 5.23 ERA.

Affeldt looks headed for the pen. Fogg is the swing guy at this point IMO.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Oxilon
03-13-2008, 02:52 PM
Between last year's season in the minors, winter ball, spring training, and now this season, where has Cueto gotten his rest? Yeah, I don't see it either. And the fact that Dusty Baker believes pitchers have rubber arms, I'm already growing wary of what Baker might command out of Cueto.

BLEEDS
03-13-2008, 03:16 PM
Between last year's season in the minors, winter ball, spring training, and now this season, where has Cueto gotten his rest? Yeah, I don't see it either. And the fact that Dusty Baker believes pitchers have rubber arms, I'm already growing wary of what Baker might command out of Cueto.

That is my biggest fear as well, which is why I advocated starting him off in AAA, and then shutting him down after the MILB season.

However, I don't see that happening. Even if he goes down to AAA, he's pitching too well to stay there, and they would bring him up for a cup of coffee regardless.

I think his lack of rest is also translating into his early success in ST.

All these variables go into a very complicated equation, of which the end result really has no good answer.

The best we can do is hope Cueto's arm is REALLY made of rubber, because it's about to have its elasticity put to a test.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

James B.
03-13-2008, 04:23 PM
There is no way Cueto doesn't make the rotation unless he just falls apart. I think Volquez will make the rotation also. I think the last spot will be between Fogg and Belise. Fogg had a better year last year and Belise could be a nice addition to the bullpen, so I think Fogg gets the nod for the last spot.

_Sir_Charles_
03-13-2008, 05:06 PM
Agreed. I'd say it's nearly a certainty that Affeldt is in the pen. If he were really good this spring, he had a shot at the rotation. Any struggles and he was going to the pen. Our need for a lefty out there pretty much makes that a certainty.

IamWallaman
03-13-2008, 05:15 PM
According to Fay (http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2008/03/reds-v-phillies-lineup.asp), we need to set our DVRs/VCRs for 1:05 on Monday. FSN has the game... and our boy, Cueto, gets the start! :D

Va Red Fan
03-13-2008, 05:37 PM
I'm sold on giving Cueto a shot at the rotation. He surely has talent.

NorrisHopper30
03-13-2008, 05:47 PM
According to Fay (http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2008/03/reds-v-phillies-lineup.asp), we need to set our DVRs/VCRs for 1:05 on Monday. FSN has the game... and our boy, Cueto, gets the start! :D
Vs who?

EDIT: The Tigers, I wonder who they are throwing :D