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Always Red
03-07-2008, 06:47 PM
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/default.asp

Fay:


Johnny Cueto made his first start and was as billed. He threw strikes. His line: 3 IP, 1 hit, no runs, no walks, 4 strikeouts. Very, very impressive.

"That kid's got some (stuff)," Ken Griffey Jr. said. "Some other guys are going to turn it up, especially somebody wearing No. 34. Competition is a good thing."

Homer Bailey is No. 34.


Where did that come from? ...or am I just reading too much into this?

OR, (and this is even a better question) is this just the bank president doing his usual thing? :dunno:

Highlifeman21
03-07-2008, 06:49 PM
If KGJ truly is calling out Bailey, then I like this development.

If this is nothing more than Fay being Fay, then it'll give me one more reason to continue to not read Fay.

OnBaseMachine
03-07-2008, 07:26 PM
I take it as Griffey stating the other young guys are going to turn it up and make it a tough competition. If he were challenging him I think it would have "need to to turn it up".

buckeyenut
03-07-2008, 07:32 PM
He is competing with Cueto for a 5th starter job. If Cueto is doing good, stands to reason Bailey better turn it up. Why is this an issue to say when it is obvious?

Always Red
03-07-2008, 07:33 PM
Why is this an issue to say when it is obvious?
I don't know.

But Junior said it. :eek:

Maybe this is Junior stepping up into a leadership role, as Baker has asked him to do? If so, I kind of like it- Junior is not "The Kid" anymore, and I'd love him to be a vocal leader on this team at least in the clubhouse, where it really matters.

OnBaseMachine
03-07-2008, 07:37 PM
Here's a slightly different quote from Hal McCoy's blog:

Cueto, Arizona and Attila

By Hal McCoy | Friday, March 7, 2008, 09:55 AM
Latest comment

It was only his second outing this spring and it was against the Pittsburgh Pirates, but…it WAS the Pittsburgh regulars.

Johnny Cueto, 22, buzzed through the Pirates batting orde Friday as if he carried a Black & Decker high-powered tree cutter - a 98 miles an hour fastball and a U Can’t Touch This change-up.

In three innings, Cueto gave up one single while striking out four. If this keeps up, Cueto will be in the rotation.

“That kid has some really, really good stuff,” said Ken Griffey Jr. watching Pittsburgh’s futility from his right field spot. “He is going to make it real tough on some guys who think they’re in the rotation. No. 34 (Homer Bailey) better turn it up a notch.”

Said catcher Javier Valentin, “His change-up is his best pitch, even with that good fastball. With that change-up, welcome to the big leagues, kid. People say he is the next Pedro Martinez.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

dougdirt
03-07-2008, 07:47 PM
I always find it strange that the different writer get different quotes. Don't these guys have recorders so they can go back over the quotes?

cincrazy
03-07-2008, 08:32 PM
If this is the emergence of "The Kid" taking on more of a leadership role, I'm all for it. Homer can get snippy with the media, but there isn't much he can say to a future Hall of Famer and one of the best players of all time.

MartyFan
03-07-2008, 08:37 PM
And here I thought Brandon Phillips was going to be the vocal leader of this team...thank God Junior seems to be coming of age before our very eyes.

jojo
03-07-2008, 08:57 PM
..or am I just reading too much into this?

I think Mr MaGoo could've picked up on this one given it's subtlety (or lack of it)... :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkNF-0QsQOE

Aronchis
03-07-2008, 09:05 PM
It also helped Cueto was throwing all out and would have been gassed by the 5th inning. His first game he was trying to keep pace and it showed by getting beaten around.

I would think this would put pressure on Volquez? Remember him, the guy Krivsky traded Josh Hamilton for? If he doesn't make the rotation, "Krivdawg" looks bad.

Always Red
03-07-2008, 09:26 PM
It also helped Cueto was throwing all out and would have been gassed by the 5th inning. His first game he was trying to keep pace and it showed by getting beaten around.



I didn't think the game was on TV or radio? Or are you in Florida and saw it?

Aronchis
03-07-2008, 09:32 PM
I didn't think the game was on TV or radio? Or are you in Florida and saw it?

I am going by the reports, which were probably accurate.

Spitball
03-07-2008, 09:42 PM
It also helped Cueto was throwing all out and would have been gassed by the 5th inning.

You don't know that. Every pitcher in Florida trying to win a spot, Bailey included, better be throwing "all out" or they won't be making the trip north.


I would think this would put pressure on Volquez? Remember him, the guy Krivsky traded Josh Hamilton for? If he doesn't make the rotation, "Krivdawg" looks bad.

Except, Griffey is closer to the situation and obviously has a better grasp on the situation than you do.


I am going by the reports, which were probably accurate.

Please provide a link to these reports.

OnBaseMachine
03-07-2008, 09:58 PM
It also helped Cueto was throwing all out and would have been gassed by the 5th inning. His first game he was trying to keep pace and it showed by getting beaten around.
.

:rolleyes:

Ridiculous.

Team Clark
03-08-2008, 12:08 AM
I always find it strange that the different writer get different quotes. Don't these guys have recorders so they can go back over the quotes?

You would think that! Then again Fay writes what he "wants" to hear.

Always Red
03-08-2008, 09:30 AM
It also helped Cueto was throwing all out and would have been gassed by the 5th inning. His first game he was trying to keep pace and it showed by getting beaten around.



I am going by the reports, which were probably accurate.

CTrent had this to report:

http://www.1530homer.com/pages/ctrent.html


SARASOTA, Fla. -- Put Johnny Cueto in the Reds' rotation right now. Put him third behind Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo -- not because Cueto could be the Reds' third-best starter, but because Arroyo’s done it long enough to have earned the No. 2 spot.

I'm the first to say "it's only spring." But this time I'm answering my own statement -- "I don't care. The kid is good."

The kid is really good.

It's not just me, listen to what Cueto said when asked if he should start in the big leagues.

"Yes," Cueto said through interpreter and catcher Javier Valentin as if he'd been asked nothing more if he wanted a bottle of water after pitching three innings and striking out four Pirate batters, while surrendering a single hit. "That's why I'm here. I'm throwing the ball good, if I've got a chance to start the season in the big leagues, I'll be happy."

On display on the mound is not just Cueto's outstanding fastball and change-up (oh, the change), but also his confidence. Not at any point did Cueto look as if he didn’t belong -- not just on the Ed Smith Stadium mound, but on the mound at Great American Ball Park or Yankee Stadium or the moon.

Not only did Cueto dominate -- the only hit he surrendered was a liner by first baseman Scott Hatteberg by former National League batting champ Freddy Sanchez -- he did it making the Pirate hitters look like Little Leaguers. Those same Pirate hitters greeted Cueto's replacement, Richie Gardner, with seven runs on five hits in 1/3 of an inning.

"I feel good, I felt comfortable," Cueto said after Friday's performance. "I trust my stuff, I don't do anything specific to impress anybody. I throw the way I'm used to throwing and challenge the hitters."

Sunday in Dunedin, Fla., Cueto made his first appearance of the spring, striking out two batters in two innings against the Blue Jays, one of those being All-Star Vernon Wells. Cueto also gave up four hits and a run against Toronto, but he was dealing with the flu. Still, after that game, Reds manager Dusty Baker called Cueto's stuff "electric."

If Cueto was electric against the Blue Jays, he was nuclear against the Pirates.

"He throws easy, he throws strikes, he mixes up his pitches well," Baker said following the 13-8 Pirates win. "He threw the ball well, he looks nice and relaxed. He's coming fast. He looked good."

None of this surprises those who have seen him pitch before. Jay Bruce, ranked as the No. 1 prospect in all of baseball by Baseball America, isn't surprised at anything Cueto does on the mound.

"Sometimes those guys have no chance -- no chance at all," Bruce said. "I asked him how he was throwing, he said, 'maybe 98.' I believe him. He's ridiculous. He's going to be good for a long, long time."

Even though Cueto can touch the upper 90s, his fastball is merely a set-up for a devastating change-up, which will be his out pitch. It's what he got Pirates' leadoff man Nate McLouth looking at to start Friday's game, and the pitch he had several Pirates whiffing at throughout his three innings. Bruce called it "dirty" while future Hall of Famer Frank Thomas lost his balance swinging at one last weekend.

"If you have that kind of changeup, welcome to the big leagues," Valentin said. "Everyone says the next Pedro Martinez, and hopefully that's what we've got here, the next Pedro Martinez."


Aronchis, is there a report that I missed, that supports your first statement? If so, please post- thanks!

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 09:43 AM
CTrent had this to report:

http://www.1530homer.com/pages/ctrent.html



Aronchis, is there a report that I missed, that supports your first statement? If so, please post- thanks!

Please don't bring facts into this. Aronchis believes Cueto should be a reliever, so he makes things up and tries to pass them as facts just so it he can make it look like he was right. You're ruining his theory. ;)

nate
03-08-2008, 10:04 AM
It also helped Cueto was throwing all out and would have been gassed by the 5th inning. His first game he was trying to keep pace and it showed by getting beaten around.

http://www.gluethemoose.com/neen/hyperbole.png

Always Red
03-08-2008, 11:25 AM
Please don't bring facts into this. Aronchis believes Cueto should be a reliever, so he makes things up and tries to pass them as facts just so it he can make it look like he was right. You're ruining his theory. ;)

At this point I think Cueto would make a good ANYTHING for this team. SP, of course, is the biggest need, but could you imagine this guy at the back end of the pen along with Burton and Cordero? Nasty Boys redux??? But you'd need SP's to get the game to them.

I have to admit that I am also nervous with having a guy this young in the rotation- even if he is all that. I'd love to see him start, but a part of me wants him coddled along a bit more. Maybe I have too many visions of Mark Prior in my head (and I know his arm problems were not totally Baker's fault).

westofyou
03-08-2008, 12:16 PM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7206


“You can have all the young talent in the world, but you need somebody to guide those players and show them the way to winning,” Maddon said. “Now a layman might say that’s the manager’s job and he would be correct. However, there is also a dynamic in a major league clubhouse that is hard to explain if you haven’t actually been in one to see what goes on. A player is more likely to listen to a veteran who has won before than a manager or coach when it comes to talking about how to win. Furthermore, a player is a lot less likely to get a sympathetic audience from his peers if another player corrects him on the way of going about how to be a professional than he would if he is corrected by a manager or coach. That’s just the way human nature is, and you can never take the human element out of the game.”

M2
03-08-2008, 12:25 PM
First off, Johnny Cueto's not as good as we fans think he is today, no one is. Remember the last "next Pedro" the Reds had was Ramon Ortiz, who was devoid of anything like stuff. Cueto's finally managed to be overhyped. Good for him, but he'll have challenges in front of him. Bank on that.

That said, he always threw hard (with movement) and had a wipeout slider. If his change really is this good it's a big deal because he'll have a full arsenal of plus pitches.

As for Bailey, I hope he resists the temptation to try to do more than he can. I'm sure Jr.'s just noting that the kids in camp are highly motivated, but Homer can't do anything about Cueto's advancement curve. All he can do is take care of his own business. I'd hate to see him suffer some damage because he was trying to prove something he's not ready to prove.

lollipopcurve
03-08-2008, 01:31 PM
Homer's going to compete hard. The thing is, it IS the stuff he's "not ready to do," in part, that he has to be doing -- working on his secondary stuff.

Same with Volquez -- to be in the rotation, he's going to have to show the curve can be useful.

M2
03-08-2008, 01:54 PM
lollipop, my worry is Homer will respond by trying to throw 100 m.p.h. or increasing the snap on his curve. I completely agree he needs to be working on his secondary offerings (and his first one too as he doesn't exactly hit the glove with his ace yet either), but there is the temptation to overthrow and, for his sake, I hope it's a temptation he avoids.

Always Red
03-08-2008, 02:00 PM
lollipop, my worry is Homer will respond by trying to throw 100 m.p.h. or increasing the snap on his curve. I completely agree he needs to be working on his secondary offerings (and his first one too as he doesn't exactly hit the glove with his ace yet either), but there is the temptation to overthrow and, for his sake, I hope it's a temptation he avoids.

Is anyone other than me not convinced that Dick Pole is the guy to shepherd these young guys along? This isn't a direct knock against Pole; but these are three excellent young arms, in Bailey, Volquez and Cueto, and they are in need of an excellent coach to finish their training. I'm not sure Pole is that guy.

Problem is, I'm not sure this org has anyone else who can teach big league pitching. Soto?

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 02:00 PM
I'm excited to watch Homer pitch on TV Monday night against the Yankees. I'm anxious to see how much, if any, his control and changeup have improved. Baker said some of his control problems were due to him being all arms and legs last year. Dick Pole supposedly has been working with him on that and hopefully we'll begin to see some progress. His control has been solid since his first inning of the spring (albeit very very small sample size) and his changeup and curve was working pretty good on Wednesday from what I've read.