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View Full Version : Who do you got as the Reds starting rotation for opening day?



fearofpopvol1
03-08-2008, 03:22 AM
With this sudden emergence of Cueto, what do you have as the Reds starting rotation for opening day right now?

Not so much who you WANT it to be but rather who you THINK it will be? Though you can post the former too if you'd like.

I'm going to go with...

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Cueto

That could change, but I just don't see room for Volquez if Cueto is as advertised and I don't see the Reds moving Fogg to long relief (even though I think that'd be the way to go) or the pen. I think Maloney is way out of the picture at this point and I can't imagine Homer is in the rotation come opening day. Affeldt I can't imagine being in there either.

If I could have it my way, I'd move Cueto up to the 4 spot and Volquez at the 5 spot.

To take things further, what do you think happens in 2009? I know a ton can happen in between now and then and it's totally hypothetical. Let's assume that Cueto/Volquez are at or around league average or project to be for 2009. Let's say Belisle's year is around league average as well. Do you think Homer/Maloney get traded? Or Homer comes up from AAA in the pen? Is Belisle released? Someone gets traded? What do you think happens? There are a lot of arms, which is a good thing...but it may be hard to decide what to do with all of them a yaer from now.

membengal
03-08-2008, 06:35 AM
I still can't believe the Reds would deal for Volquez if he isn't ticketed for the rotation.

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 07:56 AM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Volquez

Here's what mine would look like:

Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Matt Belisle
Edinson Volquez
Johnny Cueto

PuffyPig
03-08-2008, 09:20 AM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Volquez

Here's what mine would look like:

Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Matt Belisle
Edinson Volquez
Johnny Cueto

I"m with OBM on both accounts.

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 09:29 AM
I"m with OBM on both accounts.

IMO it's the best rotation possible for the Reds - the one that will give the Reds the best chance of winning. Volquez is primed for a breakout, I'm already on record as stating I think he'll be the Reds second best starter behind Harang by the end of the year. I think he's going to give us 180 innings of sub 4.00 ERA ball and strikeout roughly 8.0 batters per nine innings. Johnny Cueto - coming into the spring, I thought Cueto was a longshot to make this team. Then Dusty Baker started praising Cueto and made the comment that some of the young pitchers could make the team out of the bullpen as opposed to being sent to AAA Louisville. That is when I started thinking Cueto would make the team...as a reliever and then eased into the rotation. Now, after recent performances by Cueto and further praise from basically everyone who has seen him pitch this spring, it really wouldn't surprise me at all if Cueto is in the Opening Day rotation behind Volquez, hopefully. Send Homer Bailey to Louisville for more seasoning and if he dominates, call him up in the summer if Belisle is struggling.

WVRedsFan
03-08-2008, 10:31 AM
Here's what mine would look like:

Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Matt Belisle
Edinson Volquez
Johnny CuetoNot a chance with our leadership valuing experience so much.

It will be :

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Affeldt

I'm not sure if Homer will make the team or Volquez either. Just a hunch. As cautious as Krivsky is about youngsters (remember Votto nearly rotted in the minors last year), Cueto may not even make it, so Volquez is in danger of starting there too.

As for trading for Volquez, they also signed Fogg so he's a lock IMHO. Remember, after Wayne signed Stanton, we saw him often. It was the same with Majewski until we learned he was hurt. And anyone remember those duds he acquired and marched out to the mound for at least 4 starts in 2006 (er...Joe Mays, etc)? I have a feeling Volquez is for the future.

Spitball
03-08-2008, 10:51 AM
Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Johnny Cueto
Matt Belisle
Edinson Volquez

It is a tough call though. I see Cueto making it too difficult to keep him out of the rotation. Barring an injury, I also see Belisle, Volquez, Fogg, and perhaps Affeldt competing for the last two spots. Hopefully, Belisle and Volquez pitch too well for the Reds to justify keeping Fogg in the rotation. If Fogg doesn't make it, I can see him moved to some team needing an emergency filler. If Volquez doesn't pitch well enough, I can see the Reds sending him down briefly until someone else falters or is injured.

reds44
03-08-2008, 10:56 AM
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Fogg
Volquez/Belisle

Bullpen of:
Affeldt
Belisle/Volquez
Burton
Cordero
Weathers
McBeth
Coffey

M2
03-08-2008, 11:02 AM
Harang, Arroyo, Belisle and Fogg are pretty much givens.

Cueto would seem to have grabbed the lead for the last slot yesterday, but it's still early and I expect Mr. Volquez will be making his case soon enough. Mr. Bailey can get in there as well, but my theory is he needs to do so on Monday (and, yes, I think that's totally unfair).

I mentioned this in the game thread, but I expect K/BB is the stat that Baker and Pole are paying strict attention to with these kids. Right now here's where they stand:

Bailey - 1.00
Volquez - 2.50
Cueto - infinity (btw, what keys do you need to hit to type an infinity symbol?)

Cueto was always going to win that battle, but if one of the other two does exceedingly well too, then it could be considered a wash.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 11:18 AM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Affeldt
Fogg


How boring, and I hope I'm wrong. Wayne (moreso than Dusty, I think) loves his veterans, and is gun shy when it comes to letting young players play in the big leagues.


Considering they didn't trade any of the "young guns", play them, instead of getting off on how good the prospects are.

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Bailey/Volquez (whomever has a better spring - the one that doesn't make the rotation goes to the bullpen)
Cueto.

nate
03-08-2008, 11:28 AM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Volquez
Affeldt

Cueto in the pen, Homer in AAA.

The vet thing is overblown.

Falls City Beer
03-08-2008, 11:53 AM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Affeldt

BP
Maj
Volquez
Stanton
Cordero
Weathers
Coutlangus
Burton

When Affeldt and Fogg melt down with regularity, whoever of the two young guns is performing better (Volquez or Cueto) will get the promotion. But not both.

This early season will be another extended trial run, not a contention run.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 11:55 AM
When Affeldt and Fogg melt down with regularity, whoever of the two young guns is performing better (Volquez or Cueto) will get the promotion. But not both.

I love how you convieniently left Homer out of that equation.

I know it's impossible to think that he can get his stuff in order and actually DEVELOP into a good pitcher.

Falls City Beer
03-08-2008, 11:57 AM
I love how you convieniently left Homer out of that equation.

I know it's impossible to think that he can get his stuff in order and actually DEVELOP into a good pitcher.

If he does it'll be next year. My saying that is a good thing; he needs another year, and I'm predicting the FO will do the right thing this time.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 11:58 AM
Just going on gut instinct

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Cueto
Fogg/Affeldt

I think Belisle because I think they want him to sink or swim and putting him in that #3 spot will be a good way to find that out. Cueto I put in at 4 because I don't think they want him going back and forth betwen the bullpen and the rotation and skipping days where there's a rainout or a day off. Fogg/Affeldt are vets so they can probably handle the back and forth and start skipping better than Cueto.I think they want Affeldt to make the rotation because he's a lefty but Fogg has more experience and success starting than Affeldt does.

M2
03-08-2008, 12:03 PM
I love how you convieniently left Homer out of that equation.

I know it's impossible to think that he can get his stuff in order and actually DEVELOP into a good pitcher.

I don't see what the second has to do with the first.

The question in this thread is who do you think will be in the Reds rotation to start the season? We'll probably have a firm idea of how the kids stack up in a week, but saying that Bailey's running third in that race is quickly becoming a statement of observation (rather than opinion). And if you've got him running third among the kids, then whey would you list him when asked to name the rotation?

Homer's always been a weirdness magnet, but this notion that saying something positive about other young pitchers is somehow anti-Homer is straight out of Bizarro World.

pedro
03-08-2008, 12:32 PM
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Fogg/Belisle

pahster
03-08-2008, 12:42 PM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Volquez
Fogg/Affeldt

Hopefully either Cueto or Bailey forces their way into the fifth slot. The former has made a strong case so far.

pedro
03-08-2008, 12:45 PM
I love how you convieniently left Homer out of that equation.

I know it's impossible to think that he can get his stuff in order and actually DEVELOP into a good pitcher.

I love how if a poster doesn't blow sunshine up Homer's skirt at every opportunity they get accused of saying he's a washout.

westofyou
03-08-2008, 12:46 PM
I love how you convieniently left Homer out of that equation.

I know it's impossible to think that he can get his stuff in order and actually DEVELOP into a good pitcher.

So... why does he get in Matt?

pedro
03-08-2008, 12:52 PM
I'm not sure that Belisle is the lock I thought he was earlier in the off season. With the additions of Fogg, Alfeldt and Volquez and the emergence of Cueto coupled with the fact that there is a new manager this year I could easily see Belisle being relegated to relief or even AAA if he doesn't do well this spring.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 12:52 PM
As of now, he doesn't, at least to start the season, he hasn't shown it....but there's no reason why he can't get in later when the Fogg's and Affeldt's (and maybe Belisle's) of the world show why they shouldn't be in the rotation.

Yes, he has to earn it. Right now, he hasn't.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 12:55 PM
I love how if a poster doesn't blow sunshine up Homer's skirt at every opportunity they get accused of saying he's a washout.

I love how people assume, based on a handful of big league starts, that a 21 year old kid, still developing his craft, is nothing but a waste of time.

pedro
03-08-2008, 12:59 PM
I love how people assume, based on a handful of big league starts, that a 21 year old kid, still developing his craft, is nothing but a waste of time.

did M2 say that? no.

Did anybody ever say that? no.

I've never ever run into a touchier bunch than those who are convinced Homer is ready for the big leagues right now.

Homer's got a lot of talent and he's young. Just because someone feels he's not ready yet doesn't mean they think he's never going to make it.

Calm down and stop acting like someone called your girlfriend ugly.

M2
03-08-2008, 01:00 PM
I'm not sure that Belisle is the lock I thought he was earlier in the off season. With the additions of Fogg, Alfeldt and Volquez and the emergence of Cueto coupled with the fact that there is a new manager this year I could easily see Belisle being relegated to relief or even AAA if he doesn't do well this spring.

Does Belisle have options left? I was under the impression he didn't.

Anyway, I think it would be folly to have put all those innings into Belisle to get him to the spot where he might be ready to take a step forward and then not let him take that step. Plus, Baker basically put him in the rotation two weeks ago, so right now he's just working on being ready for April rather than competing for a spot.

My guess is the collapse of all the other LHPs in camp is going to clear a path for Affeldt in the pen.

westofyou
03-08-2008, 01:00 PM
I love how people assume, based on a handful of big league starts, that a 21 year old kid, still developing his craft, is nothing but a waste of time.

No one said that, but it's funny how every poster under the age of 30 has saucer eyes for Homer without any caveats.

Sam's Law


There's something I call Sam's Law — after Sam Rich, an attorney from Pittsburgh who has been a friend of mine for many years. Sam's Law is that young pitchers will break your heart. I think that when teams go into a pennant race depending on young pitching, it very often it takes a year or two for that young pitching to be as good as you thought it would be. The Yankees have that problem, and we have that problem — we're depending on [Jon] Lester and [Clay] Buchholz and some other guys to be useful to us. It's going to be interesting to see how many of those young pitchers live up to those expectations.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1720044-2,00.html

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:01 PM
did M2 say that? no.

Did anybody ever say that? no.



It sounds like it sometimes from some people....

I believe I said in previous posts that right now he hasn't shown he's ready for the bigs....and that's ok. He doesn't have to be now, but there's no reason his name can't be in the conversation for later in the season.

M2
03-08-2008, 01:02 PM
I love how people assume, based on a handful of big league starts, that a 21 year old kid, still developing his craft, is nothing but a waste of time.

And of course saying positive things about Cueto and Volquez indicates that you hate Homer Bailey. I mean, that's just plain as day.

westofyou
03-08-2008, 01:03 PM
And of course saying positive things about Cueto and Volquez indicates that you hate Homer Bailey. I mean, that's just plain as day.

I don't like hamburgers.... doesn't mean I don't love fries.

pedro
03-08-2008, 01:03 PM
Does Belisle have options left? I was under the impression he didn't.

Anyway, I think it would be folly to have put all those innings into Belisle to get him to the spot where he might be ready to take a step forward and then not let him take that step. Plus, Baker basically put him in the rotation two weeks ago, so right now he's just working on being ready for April rather than competing for a spot.

My guess is the collapse of all the other LHPs in camp is going to clear a path for Affeldt in the pen.


I agree, I just wonder if he'll have a somewhat shorter leash than I initially thought.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:06 PM
And of course saying positive things about Cueto and Volquez indicates that you hate Homer Bailey. I mean, that's just plain as day.

I think it's great that the Reds have 3 prospects (there's that word again), at this level...it's been a while.

Now, we see what they end up being....right now, it looks like Cueto is the top dog.

M2
03-08-2008, 01:08 PM
right now, it looks like Cueto is the top dog.

Why must you bust on Homer Bailey like that?

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:09 PM
Why must you bust on Homer Bailey like that?

I'm a hater ;)

pedro
03-08-2008, 01:11 PM
Why must you bust on Homer Bailey like that?

I think it's a preternatural bias against Texans.

At least it is for me ;)

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 01:12 PM
Now, we see what they end up being....right now, it looks like Cueto is the top dog.

Right now I think they rank like this:

1. Johnny Cueto
2. Edinson Volquez (slightly behind Cueto)
3. Homer Bailey

But that could quickly change. Homer Bailey clearly has the stuff and talent to be an incredible pitcher, but right now he ranks behind Cueto and Volquez because of inconsistent command. If he improves that, and I believe he will, he'll most likely jump to the top of the list. I'm just happy to have three guys with this type of talent in the organization.

M2
03-08-2008, 01:16 PM
FWIW, I agree with FCB that the rotation will be in transition this season. My guess is one kid wins a rotation slot to start the season and a second will work his way in before the season ends, putting the third on a 2009 timetable (and not necessarily the start of 2009 either).

WMR
03-08-2008, 01:21 PM
I don't want Fogg or Affeldt in the rotation. Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see both of them there.

fearofpopvol1
03-08-2008, 01:27 PM
I agree, I just wonder if he'll have a somewhat shorter leash than I initially thought.

I actually completely agree with this. I think Belisle has been given a spot basically, but he's going to be under a lot of pressure the entire time. We'll see if he performs.

KronoRed
03-08-2008, 02:33 PM
No one said that, but it's funny how every poster under the age of 30 has saucer eyes for Homer without any caveats.


I'm under 30, I think Homer needs a full season in AAA.:D

cincrazy
03-08-2008, 02:59 PM
I'm under 30, I think Homer needs a full season in AAA.:D

Same here ;)

cincrazy
03-08-2008, 03:02 PM
Affeldt
Fogg
Mercker
Sidney Ponson
Brian Reith

Don't say I didn't tell you so come April

(All sarcasm aside, sad thing is, THAT rotation may be better than some of the rotations we've thrown out there this decade. Elmer Dessens for staff ace, anyone?)

Spitball
03-08-2008, 03:23 PM
I don't want Fogg or Affeldt in the rotation. Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see both of them there.

In the long run, that might be in the best interest of the Reds and the youngsters. I think Volquez will get every opportunity to make the rotation, but Cueto and Bailey will have to pitch too well to be kept from the rotation.

There was a time, back in the 1960's and early '70's, when the Reds actually could develop starting pitchers. Unfortunately, Jim O'Toole, Gary Nolan, Don Gullett, and Wayne Simpson all burned out too early in their careers. It better to let some fruits ripen on the vine than to pick it too early. But, like Christmas presents always hidden in the same closet, it is very, very tempting...

membengal
03-08-2008, 03:46 PM
I'm 37, and don't have saucer eyes for Bailey. What I do have for Bailey is the sense that the press and a good segment of this board need to chill out, let him see where he's at, and go from there. This very Cincinnati desire to create issues out of nothing and denigrate talent always makes me shake my head.

And, yes, there has been a silly rush to find and magnify flaws with Bailey. From Fay, to McCoy, to certain people on this board.

The known with Bailey:

1. He's considered extremely talented.
2. He's got good velocity and a sharp curve.
3. He's working on command and needs more of that.
4. He's apparently not uber-pleasant to talk to.

Of those four things, the most important is clearly #3. He will likely be asked to work on it in AAA. At the ripe old age of 21, it would appear he has plenty of time to realize his talent. I just don't get the rush to villify him that has pervaded discussions of him for a long time now.

Oh, and I am dead positive #4 doesn't mean a gosh darn thing.

red-in-la
03-08-2008, 03:50 PM
fearofpopvol1, could you maybe edit the title of this thread?

I think we should be able to do better than "Who do you got..." :eek:

membengal
03-08-2008, 03:53 PM
My best guess with three weeks to go:

Harang
Arroyo
Fogg
Cueto (my hunch based on the drool coming from his manager's mouth)
Volquez

Belisle in long relief.
Affeldt in long relief too.

Bailey in AAA with Maloney.

icehole3
03-08-2008, 04:12 PM
And, yes, there has been a silly rush to find and magnify flaws with Bailey. From Fay, to McCoy, to certain people on this board.



don forget the Cowboy, I agree with Matt as well, everybody calm down and lets wait until monday before we send Homer to AAA.

my starting 5 going on if you base it on pure competition.

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Bailey
Volquez/Fogg

Bullpen
Belisle-long relief
Affeldt-lefty specialist
Merker
Burton
Weathers
Cordero

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Animations/dancin.gif

WMR
03-08-2008, 04:15 PM
There's absolutely no way Belisle's not in the starting rotation. NONE.

Spring~Fields
03-08-2008, 04:26 PM
I like this but I don't think WK will

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Bailey

red-in-la
03-08-2008, 04:50 PM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Affeldt

I predict that it will take 3 turns through the rotation before one of these 5 will have a 27.00 ERA and the parade of rotation members will start. I fully expect the young arms to be part of this parade.

Patrick Bateman
03-08-2008, 04:50 PM
I really don't see what Bailey has done to earn a rotation spot. He had major control problems last season, in both AAA and the majors. His major league stint showed how vastly important that factor is to a pitcher's success. Additionally, Bailey has exhibited the same problems so far in spring training.

When a guy continues to show the exact same problems, bumping him up is not the answer. Until he proves that he has improved his control enough to the point that he can dominate AAA hitters, I really don't see why he should be on the major league squad. Clearly, he wont be helping the Reds with this problem, and additionally, he still has lots to prove in AAA, so it wont be a waste of time/development for Bailey to pitch in AAA.

At this point Belisle has shown some major league ability.... as in he belongs in the majors. Bailey has yet to show that, and until that happens Beilse IMO, more than deserves a rotation spot. He had a very underrated 2007 season, and he deserves a spot, considering the alternatives are a raw Bailey, or veteran junk.

To me, the top 3 spots are locked up in Harang, Arroyo, and Belisle. Probably Fogg too, even though Volquez and Cueto are probably showing enough to indicate that they are superior options right now. In my mind Bailey is not even an option yet. We have 7 guys who are likely to outpitch him (or at least the same level) as a starter right now. Bailey needs some AAA time to show that he can displace the likes of Fogg, Affeldt, and eventually Belisle. If Bailey can't outpitch Fogg, then he may as well develop in AAA rather than hurting the Reds at the major league level.

I figure one of Cueto/Volquez makes the rotation with the other going to Fogg. The main question is whether the Reds are ready to introduce 2 of the young guys at the same time and ditch Fogg. The problem is if Fogg doesn't make the rotation right now, he may not have a bullpen slot either and as such would be out of the organziation. If one of the young guys show they aren't ready, then the Reds risk the chance of losing the veteran placeholder. So Fogg will probably make the team, and be displaced only when the Reds feel confident enough in the young arms that they can stick for the long haul.

reds44
03-08-2008, 04:54 PM
I think Affeldt will be best used coming out of the pen. It's where he has pitched best in his career and the other lefties we might have in the pen are Bray (hurt), Stanton (old, bad), Merker (old, bad) and Coutlangus (bad, at least in spring). We need a decent lefty pitching out of the pen.

icehole3
03-08-2008, 06:11 PM
if Merker's back up to 90 on his FB he could be your guy. I believe Belisle even though he did OK last year is pitching for a new manager and if he gets smacked around start after start in ST, Dusty will move him to the bullpen. Dusty loves the press and the press wants to get into Dusty's head and I believe they will walk him into starting the kids if they keep putting up Cueto type of performances. Its all on the kids IMO.

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Happy/HappyWave.gif

cincrazy
03-08-2008, 06:14 PM
if Merker's back up to 90 on his FB he could be your guy. I believe Belisle even though he did OK last year is pitching for a new manager and if he gets smacked around start after start in ST, Dusty will move him to the bullpen. Dusty loves the press and the press wanna get into Dusty's head and I believe they will walk him into starting the kids if they keep putting up Cueto type of performances. Its all on the kids IMO.

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Happy/HappyWave.gif

I agree with you to a certain extent. I don't think Belisle has proven anything to Dusty, and if he's not pitching reasonably well, he won't be in the rotation. He'll have more margin for error than a guy like Cueto for sure, but if Cueto keeps pitching like this, and Belisle continues to be average AT BEST, I can see him in the pen.

I've always thought Belisle would be better used in the bullpen anyways. I think he'd be better served not going through lineups two or three times a game, because that's when he usually runs into trouble and has a bad inning.

WVRedsFan
03-08-2008, 06:16 PM
I figure one of Cueto/Volquez makes the rotation with the other going to Fogg. The main question is whether the Reds are ready to introduce 2 of the young guys at the same time and ditch Fogg.

I don't see any way they ditch Fogg. He was acquired by Krivsky and as I said before, Krivsky has a history of giving those he picks up more than ample time to prove he was right in picking them up.

mth123
03-08-2008, 08:03 PM
I don't see any way they ditch Fogg. He was acquired by Krivsky and as I said before, Krivsky has a history of giving those he picks up more than ample time to prove he was right in picking them up.

I'm not a huge Fogg fan, but I think he's a key guy. He can be a placehoder in the rotation if need be and if more than one kid shows he's ready, then the Reds will need a reliever capable of going 3 to 5 innings occassionally in order to protect them. Right now, amid all those guys supposedly in contention for a spot in the pen, none of the likely candidates is thought of as more than a 2 inning guy. I am not real thrilled with the idea of breaking in more than one of the young guys in the rotation at a time because I think the younger ones especially need to have the workload monitored and managed with kid gloves. But if the team does have two in the rotation, then Fogg, or some one like him, who can 1.) come in and save the pen and keep the kids from being placed in harm's way and 2.) can make an occassional start should one of the kids be coming off a few outings where they labor too much and need an extra day or two of rest or have their turn skipped altogether, is a necessaity.

I think Bailey is a real risk of jumping to a major league rotation without having built his stamina in the minor leagues to the point of being ready. (This mistake made by the Cubs with Mark Prior in 2002 is much more responsible for why he is a "might have been" than anything that Dusty did IMO.) Cueto is also still at a dangerous age, though his history says he's more ready physically. Volquez is probably more ready to handle it, but still needs to be handled carefully.

If Cueto continues to kick the door in (its not time to declare anything after 5 innings IMO), then a group of Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Belisle and Volquez is probably the rotation. Cueto and Volquez need to be split and I'd consider pitching the 22 year old Cueto in the 2 spot between Harang and Arroyo to allow him to be lifted without over-extending him. Harang in front of him would mean that its likely that the bullpen will be relatively fresh on Cueto's days and Arroyo behind him could absorb an extra inning occassionally if needed. Fogg as the sixth starter, long reliever makes a rotation with two of the kids possible IMO.

Affeldt goes to the pen as the team's top lefty reliever. Bailey goes to AAA (no matter how he pitches this spring IMO) to build his stamina, work on his command and wait his turn. Maloney goes down and tries to carry last season's AA performance to the next level in AAA.

WebScorpion
03-10-2008, 10:40 AM
Rotation:
Harang
Arroyo
Affeldt
Cueto
Belisle

Bullpen:
Cordero
Weathers
Burton
Thompson
Volquez
Bray
McBeth

Ok, so I'm crazy. But you asked who I got! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/ad/wiggle.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Joseph
03-10-2008, 10:48 AM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Affeldt
Cueto

Affeldt gets maybe 4 or 5 starts, if he us struggling then we'll see Volquez or Bailey or Fogg.

Chip R
03-10-2008, 10:50 AM
Harang
Weathers
Burton
Cordero

That's for Opening Day

Caseyfan21
03-10-2008, 10:57 AM
I'd go with:

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Volquez

I think Cueto may get a shot in the pen but more than likely Cueto/Bailey start the season at AAA. At this point anything is really possible though (injuries, performance, etc).

lollipopcurve
03-10-2008, 10:59 AM
I know it seems to make little sense at the moment, but I'd like to see the Affeldt experiment continue through April, at least. Apparently his changeup is doing pretty well right now, and if he manages to develop that pitch, I like his stuff. Hopefully he's learned to minimize the walks......

Subject to change of course, but right now I'd like to see.....

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Affeldt
Cueto

Volquez in the pen. Homer at AAA. Don't ask me about Fogg.......

TRF
03-10-2008, 11:15 AM
Harang, Arroyo, Belisle and Fogg are pretty much givens.

Cueto would seem to have grabbed the lead for the last slot yesterday, but it's still early and I expect Mr. Volquez will be making his case soon enough. Mr. Bailey can get in there as well, but my theory is he needs to do so on Monday (and, yes, I think that's totally unfair).

I mentioned this in the game thread, but I expect K/BB is the stat that Baker and Pole are paying strict attention to with these kids. Right now here's where they stand:

Bailey - 1.00
Volquez - 2.50
Cueto - infinity (btw, what keys do you need to hit to type an infinity symbol?)

Cueto was always going to win that battle, but if one of the other two does exceedingly well too, then it could be considered a wash.
∞ Infinity symbol. cuz I was bored

I think it's a preternatural bias against Texans.

At least it is for me ;)
Hey!

Rotation:
Harang
Arroyo
Affeldt
Cueto
Belisle

Bullpen:
Cordero
Weathers
Burton
Thompson
Volquez
Bray
McBeth

Ok, so I'm crazy. But you asked who I got! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/ad/wiggle.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)
So the Reds gave Belisle a million bucks to disappear?

For me its:
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Cueto
Volquez...

right now. All Cueto needs to do is keep doing what he's doing, and he'll get a spot. Volquez has his because of how he was acquired.

RedsManRick
03-10-2008, 11:18 AM
If I had to guess, I'd say:

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Fogg
Cueto

Affeldt goes to the pen because he can't get stretched out enough for Dusty's liking. Volquez and Bailey start the year in AAA. I'm not crazy enough to guess the bullpen, I just hope that Stanton and Majewski aren't in it. I want to see McBeth and Salmon -- but I doubt we will.

Highlifeman21
03-10-2008, 11:44 AM
did M2 say that? no.

Did anybody ever say that? no.

I've never ever run into a touchier bunch than those who are convinced Homer is ready for the big leagues right now.

Homer's got a lot of talent and he's young. Just because someone feels he's not ready yet doesn't mean they think he's never going to make it.

Calm down and stop acting like someone called your girlfriend ugly.

I've probably said in some fashion (either directly, or indirectly) that Homer is a waste of time.

I don't think he's washed up as a 21 year old, but at the same time I'm not convinced he's as good as advertised.

I think worrying about Homer is a waste of time. The Reds' FO has to be seriously kidding themselves if they think he's ready for 2008, but I'm not going to lose sleep if the Reds' FO continues to mismanage his development. That being said, I don't think their mismanagement of him changes his potential. Like I said, I just don't think he's as good as advertised. I think if they treated him in that light, as opposed to overhyping him, we might see more positive results on a quicker timetable.

Regardless, Homer's roster spot is completely out of our hands, so there's little use in worrying about that spot, or Homer Bailey in general.

M2
03-10-2008, 12:22 PM
∞ Infinity symbol. cuz I was bored

I know what the symbol looks like, what I'm asking is how do I type it?

TRF
03-10-2008, 12:41 PM
I know what the symbol looks like, what I'm asking is how do I type it?

never mind. I found it. alt key and 236 = ∞

Falls City Beer
03-10-2008, 02:29 PM
Reds = ∞ jest.

redsrule2500
03-10-2008, 03:22 PM
1.Harang
2.Arroyo
3.Fogg
4.Belisle
5.Cueto

SunDeck
03-10-2008, 03:26 PM
1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Cueto
4. Fogg
5. Belisle

I can't figure out the infinity sign. Am I really that stupid?

Falls City Beer
03-10-2008, 03:27 PM
1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Cueto
4. Fogg
5. Belisle

I can't figure out the infinity sign. Am I really that stupid?

hold alt + 236 on the number pad on the right.

∞ joy.

Matt700wlw
03-10-2008, 03:30 PM
∞∞∞∞!!!!

TRF
03-10-2008, 03:31 PM
∞∞∞∞!!!!

I think that is still ∞.

SunDeck
03-10-2008, 03:35 PM
Oh- I get it.

∞ ∞ ∞

TRF
03-10-2008, 03:40 PM
learning is fun. now somebody teach me about magnets.

seriously, While I prefer Volquez and Cueto, one of Fogg/Affeldt is likely in the rotation at least to start the year. Cueto has been dominant thus far, easily the Reds best SP this ST. (yes, I know... its early.)

I'm thinking of picking up the full FSN package just to watch the Bats. That has the makings of a very fun rotation.

M2
03-10-2008, 10:15 PM
Updated K/BB stats:

Bailey - 1.00
Volquez - 6.50
Cueto - ∞

RFS62
03-10-2008, 10:18 PM


Cool

reds44
03-10-2008, 10:18 PM
Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Volquez
Cueto

Fogg
Affeldt
Weathers
Burton
Cordeo
McBeth
Bray (if healthy)

Although part of me thinks Belisle starts the year in the pen, as much as I don't want to see that.

OnBaseMachine
03-10-2008, 10:30 PM
The best possible rotation the Reds can put on the field involves Johnny Cueto and Edinson Volquez. Those two guys have electric arms, they have take a few lumps here and there but by the end of the year I think both are going to be viewed as two very reliable starters.

Homer Bailey still has incredible talent...his secondary stuff looked much better tonight but his command is still inconsistent. Give him a few months in Louisville to correct that and then call him up later in the summer if he shows huge improvement. With the acquisition of Volquez and development of Cueto, the Reds can afford to be very patient with Bailey and let him further develop.

bucksfan
03-10-2008, 10:45 PM
never mind. I found it. alt key and 236 = ∞

Hey, that ∞ can go right next to the Euro symbol € (Alt 0128) in my "alternate typing repetoire". Thanks!

Harang, Arroyo, Belisle, Fogg, Cueto; I stillhold out hope the Volquez can push out Fogg as I really do not see what he can offer except to not cause us to rush a young guy. So here's hoping 2 of 'em are ready.

cincrazy
03-10-2008, 10:59 PM
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Fill in the Blank

LINEDRIVER
03-10-2008, 11:02 PM
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Belisle

Falls City Beer
03-10-2008, 11:03 PM
™Ł§•Șș–Ą™Łș•¶§∞∞ŁĄ™•Ł¶ą§∞ș–≠‘«
…Ź∆˙©„∆˚∂∂˜˜”˚”≤∑ß∂ƒ∫˜∆˚∂˜

Loosely translated: "I'm hot for teacher."

KoryMac5
03-10-2008, 11:05 PM
My five would be:

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Belisle

For me Belisle is the weakest link in this rotation, go with the kids and let them light things up.

As far as Homer goes, I would be really careful in not making the same mistake the FO did last year. He was rushed to the show when he wasn't ready, and he still isn't ready. I read through the game thread tonight and you could almost feel that the wheels were going to come off after his first inning of work. Consistency and trusting his stuff will be key to his game. He reminds me more and more of Nuke LaLoosh everytime I see him pitch. Hopefuly he can go to AA or AAA and find his Annie Savoy.

Caveat Emperor
03-10-2008, 11:09 PM
CE's "Check your brain and good sense at the door" Rotation:

1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Bailey
4. Volquez
5. Cueto

Sure, they might lose 90 games and sure, they'll be burning cheap pre-arb years for all of the kids -- but it would certainly be exciting to go to the ballpark every day. Speaking purely as a fan, I'm kinda done with waiting for next year.

Plus there is that ever remote chance that everything starts to click for the kids in June and the team makes a run of it right to the finish line.

2008 Cincinnati Reds: Our kids play with fire.

Reds1
03-11-2008, 12:08 AM
After watching Volquez tonight and hearing how great Cueto has done I don't know the top 5. Something like this.
1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Belise
4. Fogg
5. Volquez/Cueto

Not sure where Baily goes. I'm just not sure, but some of these guys are going to the pen.

redsfan4445
03-11-2008, 12:23 AM
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Belisle

fearofpopvol1
03-11-2008, 12:30 AM
Interesting to see that a lot of people don't have Fogg making the rotation much less Belisle. I just don't see either happening to start the season. I'd be all for having EV or JC taking over Fogg's spot, however.

Reds1
03-11-2008, 12:34 AM
Interesting to see that a lot of people don't have Fogg making the rotation much less Belisle. I just don't see either happening to start the season. I'd be all for having EV or JC taking over Fogg's spot, however.

Also, no one has Afelt and Dusty really wants a lefty. But I don't either. I think the rightys are just better and we need a decent lefty in the pen. Sucks not having a lefty starting though, but we don't have it. The Fogg pick up should have been a lefty, but they just aren't out there. I've not seen Cueto, but if he is better then Volquz then watch out. I still say one of those two will be in the pen.

fearofpopvol1
03-11-2008, 12:37 AM
And further, it's interesting because Maloney was turning heads when he first got to camp (who is a lefty) though the talk about him has died down. Maybe these last 2-3 are going to be very telling.

nate
03-11-2008, 07:34 AM
Well after reading through last night's game thread, I amend mine to:

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Cueto
Volquez

The last three could be in any order. Volquez sounded pretty good last night.

Homer starts in AAA and if he improves and if Cueto and Volquez are solid, maybe the Reds think about trading Arroyo for something like a RH, power-hitting OF at the break.

Big "ifs" and "maybe" intentional!

Jpup
03-11-2008, 07:54 AM
I think the Reds will go with a rotation like this:

Harang
Arroyo
Belisle
Volquez
Fogg

Bailey will stay in AAA until he fixes his curveball. His change was looking good on Monday, for the most part, but he has no command of that change. For a guy that tall, I would suggest he goes with a slider instead. I keep hearing how great that curve is, but he has never had much command of it. I still think he is going to be a studd, but Louisville for '08 is looking like the spot.

I would think Cueto has earned his spot, but he has no experience so I think the Reds will hold him in "AAA or whatever";) until a spot opens up.

Affeldt will go to the pen where he belongs.

I see no reason to believe that Krivsky will allow any of these young arms to go to the big league pen for long. He never mentioned such a notion on Monday Night.