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NorrisHopper30
03-10-2008, 10:18 PM
Put him in the rotation as well.

He just struck out about 65million dollars worth of salary right there.

GoReds33
03-10-2008, 10:22 PM
It's beginning to sound like the two youngsters Volquez, and Cueto should both be in the rotation. They obviously have better stuff, and greater potential than any of their competitors for the spots.

smoke6
03-10-2008, 10:40 PM
Volquez did look tough, but Waynie seemed to side step the whole Cueto factor on the air.

jmac
03-10-2008, 10:46 PM
I dont see how anyone could think the Reds would be better with Fogg in the rotation over say , a Volquez.
Fogg is what he is but Volquez can really be something special.
I've heard alot of good things about the way he throws the ball and I seen it for the first time tonight.
It should be safe to assume that Volquez/Cueto appear to be quite a bit ahead of Bailey.

NorrisHopper30
03-10-2008, 10:49 PM
I dont see how anyone could think the Reds would be better with Fogg in the rotation over say , a Volquez.
Fogg is what he is but Volquez can really be something special.
I've heard alot of good things about the way he throws the ball and I seen it for the first time tonight.
It should be safe to assume that Volquez/Cueto appear to be quite a bit ahead of Bailey.

Agreed, might as well let the young guys get experience.

captainmorgan07
03-10-2008, 10:54 PM
volquez will definately be on the big club at the beginning of the year whether it's the bullpen or the rotation that's up to him to decide.

jhiller21
03-10-2008, 10:58 PM
No radar, but he looked to be throwing around 95 with a flat-out nasty changeup.

7 strikeouts in 3.0 IP so far, that's a K/9 of 21 :eek:

GoReds33
03-10-2008, 10:58 PM
volquez will definately be on the big club at the beginning of the year whether it's the bullpen or the rotation that's up to him to decide.I have to agree. I think it's set that atleast one of the youngsters will be in the rotaton come opening day. Even if that doesn't happen, one will be in the bullpen. Since Volquez has MLB experience, and has stuff that rivals with Cueto, I see no reason why he doesn't deserve to be in the rotation.

Degenerate39
03-10-2008, 11:03 PM
If Cueto is better than Bailey AND Volquez then I could end up pooping myself when I see him pitch because Volquez is impressive. Watching him pitch makes me even more excited for opening day.

jhiller21
03-10-2008, 11:04 PM
Since Volquez has MLB experience, and has stuff that rivals with Cueto, I see no reason why he doesn't deserve to be in the rotation.

He doesn't have the nasty breaking ball like Cueto, in fact the few curves he threw tonight looked pretty weak, but his change looked outstanding.

UPRedsFan
03-10-2008, 11:07 PM
Volquez = amazing stuff and ready now!

Bailey = great stuff, still not consistent enough to be ready.

Glad I got to see them both tonight.

BearcatShane
03-10-2008, 11:12 PM
If the Reds take a leap of faith and put Cueto and Volquez in the rotation, they have a great shot at this division. They look unhittable at times. Sure, they'll take a few lumps, but I gurantee they would have alot more ups than downs.

NorrisHopper30
03-10-2008, 11:15 PM
If the Reds take a leap of faith and put Cueto and Volquez in the rotation, they have a great shot at this division. They look unhittable at times. Sure, they'll take a few lumps, but I gurantee they would have alot more ups than downs.

I'll have 100% respect for the management if they make those moves, regardless of the results.

mroby85
03-10-2008, 11:21 PM
wow, volquez was VERY impressive. makes you feel a little better about the hamilton trade, even though he was one of my favorites.

jmac
03-10-2008, 11:31 PM
If the Reds take a leap of faith and put Cueto and Volquez in the rotation, they have a great shot at this division. They look unhittable at times. Sure, they'll take a few lumps, but I gurantee they would have alot more ups than downs.
Plus, doesnt a rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Volquez, Cueto,Belisle sound more intimidating than Harang, Arroyo,Belisle,Affedlt,Fogg.
As you said, they will take their knocks but I doubt they would take more than the experienced Fogg or Belisle for that matter.

UPRedsFan
03-10-2008, 11:32 PM
By the way Hamilton is OPSing almost 1.400 in 17 at bats so far.

But I don't care if he does that all season.

HeatherC1212
03-10-2008, 11:35 PM
I really liked what I saw from Volquez tonight! He was flat out nasty to some of the highest paid players in baseball and made them look silly. That was awesome to see and I think he should definitely be part of the big club when they head north. I'd love to see him starting but if he's in the bullpen, that's fine with me too so long as he's on the team. :)

Bailey had some good stuff initially but then lost his control in that third inning. He should probably start the year at AAA and work on his control before they think about bringing him up again. Haven't most of his starts gone this way in spring training? A good inning or two and then a bunch of walks and hits? I thought I had read that about him.

mlbfan30
03-10-2008, 11:37 PM
Bailey kind of reminds me of Zito with his breaking ball/control. That curve was very loopy and it seems like it's not a strong SO type of pitch. He needs to tighten it up a little.
Something to remember is that the manager/catcher calls those pitches. Bailey was just going with what they say, so you can't get mad at him for pitch selection. Almost all of the hits he gave up were soft bloopers or groundball singles. It's not like he got hit hard, the balls just mostly fell in. The BBs were obviously the main problem though. What I think is happening, is that other people want him to use his secondary pitches so much, he's uncomfortable throwing them in these situations and doesn't trust them entirely. It's wrong to just ignore him. His ERA is still lower than Volquez, and he has just as much potential.

Volquez was very impressive. But he did give up 6 Hits and 2 ER along with those 8Ks. He'd make a great RP/closer, so at least he'll be there if he doesn't start. I'm not sure on his pitch count, but too many K's might not always be the best thing for a starter because you want them to go deep into games. Bailey probably has a bigger problem with pitch count, but Volquez seems like he could be similar to John Maine in the sense of a K pitcher who uses up many pitches to get the SO. But this is very minor. We don't need him to be a workhorse like Harang right now, but he'll have to control this to reach that ace level.

Volquez #4 with Cueto #5 is looking very good right now. The great thing is that either of guys could reasonably post a 3.5 ERA. The rotation might become one of the best in baseball if these guys reach their potential. The rotation might become one of the best in baseball if these guys reach 1/2 their potential.

jmac
03-10-2008, 11:39 PM
I really liked what I saw from Volquez tonight! He was flat out nasty to some of the highest paid players in baseball and made them look silly. That was awesome to see and I think he should definitely be part of the big club when they head north. I'd love to see him starting but if he's in the bullpen, that's fine with me too so long as he's on the team. :)

Bailey had some good stuff initially but then lost his control in that third inning. He should probably start the year at AAA and work on his control before they think about bringing him up again. Haven't most of his starts gone this way in spring training? A good inning or two and then a bunch of walks and hits? I thought I had read that about him.

You are exactly right on both counts Heather.
Glad tonights game was the one fsn chose to broadcast. Only part which didnt suit me was WK's response on the Dunn question.
btw, anyone know when Johnny Cueto pitches again ? I have lost track of the day he pitched last .

HeatherC1212
03-10-2008, 11:56 PM
I think its been a couple of days since Cueto last pitched so he should be coming up again within the next two or three days. Wasn't it just on Thursday or Friday?

jmac
03-11-2008, 12:08 AM
I think its been a couple of days since Cueto last pitched so he should be coming up again within the next two or three days. Wasn't it just on Thursday or Friday?
It was the day they was scheduled to play the day/night game but dont remeber which day that was.

jhiller21
03-11-2008, 01:13 AM
Based on what I saw tonight (and granted it is just one outing), Volquez has a plus fastball, a fantastic changeup, and a below average curveball that he has trouble locating.

If this kid can develop even an average third pitch (Welsch mentioned he's working with Pole on a slider) he could be a very good Major League pitcher.

If he can't develop a good breaking ball, he would still make an excellent setup man with only 2 pitches.

K-GAR
03-11-2008, 08:35 AM
All I can say about Volquez last night is WOW :eek:, that was an eye-popping performance. Trust me, i know it's just spring training, but it's widely known that pitching usually arrives after hitting and he absolutely made A-ROD, Giambi and Matsui look foolish, even in spring training, when you can sit those three down and do it in the manner he did, you have to take notice and acknowledge the filth, if he can keep his command, he'll be lights out when he's on.

as far as his curve, he has plenty of room to error with it, when you have a change-up (best pitch in baseball, period....not necessarily his, just the changeup) like his, you don't need a great, or even a good curve, you just need to be able to show it and have the hitter thinking it's possible because when they're geared up for the 95+ fastball and that diving 86 mph change up comes in and they look stupid (i.e. A-rod:beerme:) on the swing, you can pitch.

2 things are key to volquez - 1), command, command, command, he controls it, he's filth 2) cut the hair :D

topsyt
03-11-2008, 09:28 AM
Hopefully
reds mgmt has figured out a way to address the language communication barrier with both Cueto and Volquez. Will be critical in their continuing development as to mechanics and handling pressure situations. I question if either Pole or Dusty can go to the mound and be understood. Take Mario North!

durl
03-11-2008, 09:31 AM
Bailey had some good stuff initially but then lost his control in that third inning. He should probably start the year at AAA and work on his control before they think about bringing him up again. Haven't most of his starts gone this way in spring training? A good inning or two and then a bunch of walks and hits? I thought I had read that about him.

OK...let's make this thread REALLY fun. How about putting Bailey in the bullpen?? :D

gedred69
03-11-2008, 10:34 AM
It was the day they was scheduled to play the day/night game but dont remeber which day that was.

I just hope he pitches on one of Friday in Sarasota, Sat. in Ft. Myers, or Sun. in Sarasota, so I can see him in person:D:thumbup:

BucksandReds
03-11-2008, 12:30 PM
OK...let's make this thread REALLY fun. How about putting Bailey in the bullpen?? :D

I think that locating your fastball is the most important job for a short reliever and isn't that Bailey's problem.

Newman4
03-11-2008, 12:32 PM
If Volquez develops a slider, then his talent package looks very much like Carlos Zambrano. The ball explodes out of his hand.

stevekun
03-11-2008, 02:34 PM
This is the first year in several years that I am actually excited about Reds Pitching

Biggin1985
03-11-2008, 03:08 PM
I think Volquez might be the real deal, he gave up 2 runs last night I think, but he still looked good. I think he might be in the rotation, if he can remain doing good things.

LouisvilleCARDS
03-11-2008, 03:17 PM
I'll agree with this: Affeldt should 100% not be starting. He's a horrible starter over his career, he's done horrible in spring training, and he's been solid as a releiver. He's Ryan Dempster all over again. That's why it would be a double stab - you're starting a guy who will likely be junk, and depriving yourself of a guy who would likely be pretty solid in the pen.

Fogg has been doing pretty well in spring training so far, and he had a pretty good ERA last year compared to a ton of Reds pitchers, so I would put him in the rotation. Affeldt though, is just a disaster waiting to happen IMO.

redsfanmia
03-11-2008, 03:39 PM
Hopefully all the youngsters push Beslile into the bullpen as the long man.

Caveman Techie
03-11-2008, 04:03 PM
Belisle is still young enough and promising enough to hope he improves. I would rather go with Belisle, Volquez, and Cueto than Belisle, Fogg, Affledelt.

mlbfan30
03-11-2008, 04:17 PM
Belisle is still young enough and promising enough to hope he improves. I would rather go with Belisle, Volquez, and Cueto than Belisle, Fogg, Affledelt.

That's looking like what I want also. Affeldt is a very bad starter, but a decent RP, so put him where he'd best. Don't try to overvalue him into something he's not. Fogg still is and would be a good #5 starter, but he's just not good enough right now. He would fit well into the long relief/spot starter type slot. He's still very valuable for 1M. Bailey has to start. Bailey's trouble is not in 1IP. He's able to overpower a hitter, but he needs to improve in going deeper into games and just his overall pitching style. As a short term, he might do pretty well going into the pen, but that's not practical from a development standpoint. You want him to pitch innings because he was injured last year, and you also want him to be able to relax and work on his pitches, rather than needing to overpower a couple hitters in high leverage situations in the pen. He should be in AAA, at least for now.

Belisle is getting better and I think he's going to sort of breakout. He's so similar to Harang and is still young and a plenty of potential. He's started for only 1 full year, and he did pretty well last year considering the circumstances.

Volquez the #4 is very nice, and it's possible he can become a star. A 4.50 ERA is reasonable given his talent, and thats above avg for a #4 guy.

Cueto #5. Him being the #5 allows the team to skip him and control his innings better. I'm not too worried about it, anyway. If he's going to get 170IP, might as well be in MLB where he can absolutely dominate. I think he can achieve a 4.00 ERA this year, but he would not do any worse than 5.00. And a 5.00 ERA from the 5 slot is 2 Runs per 9IP improvement over last year.